From time to time, one sees a Maybach tank engine being run at events - 
there are pictures of one making gurt clouds of black smoke at a rally last 
year on Webshots.

I've been contacted by a chap in Sweden who wants to know more about the 
engine & if possible be put in touch with the owner. If no-one knows here, 
would it be possible to spread the net across to other fora please.

regards,

Kim Siddorn

http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/1385705395036810695KJOFAn

regards,

Kim Siddorn

"Kim Siddorn"  wrote (snip):-

> there are pictures of one making gurt clouds of black smoke at a rally 
> last year on Webshots.

Like the man said!

http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/1373530093050338362QCpiUF

Nick H

"Nick H"  wrote in message 
news:69bgtvF3203jjU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> "Kim Siddorn"  wrote (snip):-
>
>> there are pictures of one making gurt clouds of black smoke at a rally 
>> last year on Webshots.
>
> Like the man said!
>
> http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/1373530093050338362QCpiUF
>
> Nick H
>

I am a bit confused (not difficult) as I have pictures here:--  
http://www.stationaryengine.org/strumpshaw_2004.htm

Of the same engine but it was listed as an Isotta Fraschini model SS 46.3 
litre V12 diesel owned by Steve Green from Norfolk.

-- 
Pete Aldous

http://www.stationaryengine.org

Thanks gentlemen - Peter especially - I knew you'd know ;o))

regards,

Kim Siddorn

"Pete Aldous"  wrote in message 
news:gM2Yj.22968$iD4.19892@newsfe09.ams2...
>
>
>
> "Nick H"  wrote in message 
> news:69bgtvF3203jjU1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> "Kim Siddorn"  wrote (snip):-
>>
>>> there are pictures of one making gurt clouds of black smoke at a rally 
>>> last year on Webshots.
>>
>> Like the man said!
>>
>> http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/1373530093050338362QCpiUF
>>
>> Nick H
>>
>
> I am a bit confused (not difficult) as I have pictures here:--  
> http://www.stationaryengine.org/strumpshaw_2004.htm
>
> Of the same engine but it was listed as an Isotta Fraschini model SS 46.3 
> litre V12 diesel owned by Steve Green from Norfolk.
>
> -- 
> Pete Aldous
>
> http://www.stationaryengine.org
>

Kim Siddorn wrote:
> Thanks gentlemen - Peter especially - I knew you'd know ;o))
> 
> regards,
> 
> Kim Siddorn
> 
> "Pete Aldous"  wrote in message 
> news:gM2Yj.22968$iD4.19892@newsfe09.ams2...
>>
>>
>> "Nick H"  wrote in message 
>> news:69bgtvF3203jjU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> "Kim Siddorn"  wrote (snip):-
>>>
>>>> there are pictures of one making gurt clouds of black smoke at a rally 
>>>> last year on Webshots.
>>> Like the man said!
>>>
>>> http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/1373530093050338362QCpiUF
>>>
>>> Nick H
>>>
>> I am a bit confused (not difficult) as I have pictures here:--  
>> http://www.stationaryengine.org/strumpshaw_2004.htm
>>
>> Of the same engine but it was listed as an Isotta Fraschini model SS 46.3 
>> litre V12 diesel owned by Steve Green from Norfolk.
>>
>> -- 
>> Pete Aldous
>>
>> http://www.stationaryengine.org
>>
> 
> 
I'm also confused, It was definitely listed as a Maybach when I saw it!

Nick H

"Kim Siddorn"  wrote in message 
news:69bcraF313tqtU1@mid.individual.net...
> http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/1385705395036810695KJOFAn
>
> regards,
>
> Kim Siddorn

I've always associated these engines (probably incorrectly) with Zeppelin 
engines. I wonder how much difference there was between them?

Julian.

On 18 May, 20:03, "Kim Siddorn"  wrote:
> http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/1385705395036810695KJOFAn

Don't know what that is, but it's not a HL230 or HL210 (the tank
engines)
http://www.alanhamby.com/maybach.shtml

I don't know if it's another Maybach, but it doesn't even look like a
tank engine - far too tall. Tank engines (since the Crusader's
Liberty) have a particular "look" to them - squished into cubes, very
compact and impossible to work on. It's a general principle that
because their position makes it impractical to work on them, there's
little point in bothering at all. You have to pull the whole power
unit before you start doing anything. Even then they're evil pigs. I
worked on the AS90 engine at Cummins and instrumenting that for the
dyno test cell was a nighmare for access.

I think HL230 rotating parts and rods are currently worth their weight
in unobtainium, owing to rarity and a fondness for breaking them.
Certainly Bovington had problems with their freshly-restored Tiger
when it snapped something scarce on practically its first outing.

On 19 May, 17:12, "Julian"  wrote:

> I've always associated these engines (probably incorrectly) with Zeppelin
> engines. I wonder how much difference there was between them?

20 years or so, which was a long time in Diesel engines around that
period.

"Andy Dingley"  wrote in message 
news:19848cd5-f41d-4744-a589-356bfbd28d5d@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
> On 18 May, 20:03, "Kim Siddorn"  wrote:
>> http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/1385705395036810695KJOFAn
>
> Don't know what that is, but it's not a HL230 or HL210 (the tank
> engines)
> http://www.alanhamby.com/maybach.shtml
>
> I don't know if it's another Maybach, but it doesn't even look like a
> tank engine - far too tall. Tank engines (since the Crusader's
> Liberty) have a particular "look" to them - squished into cubes, very
> compact and impossible to work on.

That's sort of what I was thinking. It looks more aero engine shaped, the 
Luftwaffe did have some Diesel planes, but the exhaust coming from the 
valley side of the heads has taken me by surprise.  I'm now guessing that 
it's too modern looking for a power car on a Zeppelin. Also it's Diesel and 
that Tiger tank engine link is a petrol engine. Maybe it's from an E-boat or 
railway locomotive from more recent times?

PS, pure uninformed speculation BTW - idle guesswork at best!

Julian.

On 20 May, 13:47, "Julian"  wrote:

> That's sort of what I was thinking. It looks more aero engine shaped, the
> Luftwaffe did have some Diesel planes,

All opposed piston uniflows, AFAIR, generally for reasons of increased
range in seaplanes. Napier licence-built the same design.

On Tue, 20 May 2008 06:44:13 -0700 (PDT), Andy Dingley 
wrote:

>On 20 May, 13:47, "Julian"  wrote:
>
>> That's sort of what I was thinking. It looks more aero engine shaped, the
>> Luftwaffe did have some Diesel planes,
>
>All opposed piston uniflows, AFAIR, generally for reasons of increased
>range in seaplanes. Napier licence-built the same design.

Talking of Junkers, I may have stumbled across an early 2-cylinder engine,
possibly with some connection to the Tirpitz warship. More later.

Beardmore also prototyped a flat 12-cylinder diesel aero engine:

http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Duxford/Aviat.htm

3rd picture down.

Peter
--
Peter A Forbes
Prepair Ltd, Rushden, UK
peterforbes@prepair.co.uk
http://www.prepair.co.uk
http://www.prepair.eu

On 20 May, 14:57, Peter A Forbes  wrote:

> http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Duxford/Aviat.htm

Is that a drawing or a photograph?  AFAIK even Beardmore's enthusiasm
for vast and overweight aero engines was being questioned after the
R101 (engine in the Science Musuem BTW) and the boxer 12 never got
taken more seriously than the fag packet.

On 18 May, 20:01, "Kim Siddorn"  wrote:
> From time to time, one sees a Maybach tank engine being run at events -
> there are pictures of one making gurt clouds of black smoke

I'm sure I've seen photos of this, and it is a genuine ex-Tiger HL230.
It also produces an impressive cloud of black smoke on startup. I
wonder just what that is, given that it's a petrol engine?  Coffman
starter? 8-)

Talking of black smoke, I found this recently
<http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/
Image:Bluebird_land_speed_record_car_1935_rc10413.jpg>
That rarest of beasts, free-use images of Bluebirds. If you follow the
link to the Florida archive, or the wiki category link at the bottom
of the page, there are all sorts of rare beasties photographed here.
The White Triplex (before and after), the Sunbeam Silver Bullet.

There's also muich wandering pleasure to be had on this site:
<http://www.brooklandsarchives.com/Gallery_C5/target0.html>

On Tue, 20 May 2008 11:15:19 -0700 (PDT), Andy Dingley 
wrote:

>On 20 May, 14:57, Peter A Forbes  wrote:
>
>> http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Duxford/Aviat.htm
>
>Is that a drawing or a photograph?  AFAIK even Beardmore's enthusiasm
>for vast and overweight aero engines was being questioned after the
>R101 (engine in the Science Musuem BTW) and the boxer 12 never got
>taken more seriously than the fag packet.

I'd guess a photo, but that doesn't mean that it is a full engine :-))

It's in one of my diesel books, I'll find the reference if you want.

Peter
--
Peter & Rita Forbes
Email: diesel@easynet.co.uk
http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel
http://www.stationary-engine.co.uk
http://www.oldengine.co.uk

"Andy Dingley"  wrote in message 
news:30a91bf6-7a9b-4b2c-88ae-405547e4c4a8@u6g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
> On 18 May, 20:01, "Kim Siddorn"  wrote:
>> From time to time, one sees a Maybach tank engine being run at events -
>> there are pictures of one making gurt clouds of black smoke
>
> I'm sure I've seen photos of this, and it is a genuine ex-Tiger HL230.
> It also produces an impressive cloud of black smoke on startup.

My dad fought in Shermans. (in Italy) One engine option was a Diesel. The 
Diesel was not much liked because when you started it in the morning from 
cold the cloud of smoke gave your position away so you could possibly expect 
to be fired at!

Julian

On 20 May, 20:31, "Julian"  wrote:

> My dad fought in Shermans. (in Italy) One engine option was a Diesel. The
> Diesel was not much liked because when you started it in the morning from
> cold the cloud of smoke gave your position away so you could possibly expect
> to be fired at!

Not just a diesel, a radial diesel ex-aero-engine (Guiberson). I'd say
that was weird, but then some Shermans had the 30-cylinder 5-block
engine...

I'm told these things would start cleanly if they were warm. So one
trick (if time permitted) was to drain the oil, heat it (in a bucket
over a fire) and then pour it back in hot. You then had an easier and
smoke-free start. Alternatively (on the mine-sweeping flail tanks) the
oil would be warmed up in the flail engine (smaller, easy starting),
then swapped over once warm. As they were frequently used to spearhead
a surprise assault, this wasn't an uncommon technique.

On 19 May, 17:12, "Julian"  wrote:

> I've always associated these engines (probably incorrectly) with Zeppelin
> engines. I wonder how much difference there was between them?

Maybach VL2 petrol in the first Graf Zeppelin, Daimler-Benz LOF6
diesels in Hindenburg and the second Graf Zeppelin

The petrol Maybach was a 33 litre, 550hp V12. The diesels were 88
litre V16s of around 1000hp. Both relied on having grease-monkeys in
continual attendance in the power car. A transatlantic crossing did
require in-flight maintenance and often suffered a total engine
failure.

"The Story of a Zeppelin Mechanic", ISBN 3-926162-59-7 is a good
little read.  Full of tales of hacksawing con-rods from inside the
sump, so as to get an engine back running and avoid drifting into a
mountain.

"Andy Dingley"  wrote in message 
news:160ff3b4-805b-4626-9c77-a938051e041a@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On 20 May, 20:31, "Julian"  wrote:
>
>> My dad fought in Shermans. (in Italy) One engine option was a Diesel. The
>> Diesel was not much liked because when you started it in the morning from
>> cold the cloud of smoke gave your position away so you could possibly 
>> expect
>> to be fired at!
>
> Not just a diesel, a radial diesel ex-aero-engine (Guiberson). I'd say
> that was weird, but then some Shermans had the 30-cylinder 5-block
> engine...

That was something my dad never mentioned. AFAIR he said the radial engine 
option was a petrol (Continental) engine. I'm familiar with the Chrysler 5 
bank though. He never mentioned anything specifically odd about the Diesel 
other that it was a Diesel.

Some US subs had Diesel radial (pancake) engines, so I suppose the concept 
is not too far fetched.

Julian.

"Andy Dingley"  wrote in message 
news:4e0ea72c-5171-437a-876c-bb079f1bd61a@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...

>
> "The Story of a Zeppelin Mechanic", ISBN 3-926162-59-7 is a good
> little read.  Full of tales of hacksawing con-rods from inside the
> sump, so as to get an engine back running and avoid drifting into a
> mountain.

I'm going to look out for that one, sounds like an interesting read. I've 
read tales of airships getting into cumulo-nimbus (thunder clouds) and being 
totally out of control on the edge of disaster.

Julian.

On Wed, 21 May 2008 21:05:46 +0100, "Julian"  wrote:

>I'm going to look out for that one, sounds like an interesting read. I've 
>read tales of airships getting into cumulo-nimbus (thunder clouds) and being 
>totally out of control on the edge of disaster.

Rather easier to find is Len Deighton's "Airshipwreck", which is full of
I believe every notable airship crash. Flaming hydrogen was the least of
your worries!

On Wed, 21 May 2008 21:02:38 +0100, "Julian"  wrote:

>> Not just a diesel, a radial diesel ex-aero-engine (Guiberson). I'd say
>> that was weird, but then some Shermans had the 30-cylinder 5-block
>> engine...
>
>That was something my dad never mentioned. AFAIR he said the radial engine 
>option was a petrol (Continental) engine. 

Now you mention it, I think the Guiberson diesel was only used in the
earlier M3 Grant (and the light Stuart), and had gone by the time of the
M4 Sherman. The flails in Italy were on Grant chassis.

The diesel Sherman would have been the twin GM 6-71 truck engine. AFAIR
the US didn't like these for some reason so the Brits got most of them.

There was another radial diesel by Caterpillar right at the end, but
only a handful were made.


>Some US subs had Diesel radial (pancake) engines, so I suppose the concept 
>is not too far fetched.

US subs had some weird procurement for engines. They seemed to
specialise in chasing the latest crazy idea, then regretting it in
service afterwards.

Cu-nim is not your friend. When in training to be a hang glider pilot, we 
were regaled with horror stories of kites being torn asunder in cu-nim & 
even one lucky wight who was squirted skyward through flying too close to 
the base & came out of the top to find himself in the trough of a wave.

This was mostly supposition arrived at during the inquest ...........

regards,

Kim Siddorn

"Julian"  wrote in message 
news:og%Yj.28673$U61.17659@newsfe12.ams2...
>
> "Andy Dingley"  wrote in message 
> news:4e0ea72c-5171-437a-876c-bb079f1bd61a@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
>>
>> "The Story of a Zeppelin Mechanic", ISBN 3-926162-59-7 is a good
>> little read.  Full of tales of hacksawing con-rods from inside the
>> sump, so as to get an engine back running and avoid drifting into a
>> mountain.
>
> I'm going to look out for that one, sounds like an interesting read. I've 
> read tales of airships getting into cumulo-nimbus (thunder clouds) and 
> being totally out of control on the edge of disaster.
>
> Julian.
>

cumulo-granite is bad, too. (flying into a mountain)...<G>
sam


"Kim Siddorn"  wrote in message 
news:69ocfuF322gr8U1@mid.individual.net...
> Cu-nim is not your friend. When in training to be a hang glider pilot, we 
> were regaled with horror stories of kites being torn asunder in cu-nim & 
> even one lucky wight who was squirted skyward through flying too close to 
> the base & came out of the top to find himself in the trough of a wave.
>
> This was mostly supposition arrived at during the inquest ...........
>
> regards,
>
> Kim Siddorn
>
> "Julian"  wrote in message 
> news:og%Yj.28673$U61.17659@newsfe12.ams2...
>>
>> "Andy Dingley"  wrote in message 
>> news:4e0ea72c-5171-437a-876c-bb079f1bd61a@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>
>>> "The Story of a Zeppelin Mechanic", ISBN 3-926162-59-7 is a good
>>> little read.  Full of tales of hacksawing con-rods from inside the
>>> sump, so as to get an engine back running and avoid drifting into a
>>> mountain.
>>
>> I'm going to look out for that one, sounds like an interesting read. I've 
>> read tales of airships getting into cumulo-nimbus (thunder clouds) and 
>> being totally out of control on the edge of disaster.
>>
>> Julian.
>>
>
>