I am not sure whether this falls into Model Engineering or Stationary
Engines categories.

I watched with interest a Stuart Turner Sandhurst open-crank engine
fetch £1200 on eBay yesterday and after studying the blurb I found it
was 150cc and capable of several BHP. I thought it was a scale model
of a larger engine and maybe it was, but it could also be a full scale
engine in its own right. I know a little about ST as I have built a
little Stuart-Turner V twin steam model from a kit, and have a Stuart-
Turner P5 generator for emergency house power, but I don't know much
more about the range they produced.

So, my question is, are Stuart-Turner the only company that seem to
make engines (or engine kits) ranging from scale model to full size
without a gap in the middle ?? If they made full-scale and models then
I could understand, but they seem to have pitched some in the middle
where you are not quite sure if it is one or the other - which seems
most unusual.

Thanks
Steve

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 15:00:05 -0700 (PDT), Steve 
wrote:

>I am not sure whether this falls into Model Engineering or Stationary
>Engines categories.
>
>I watched with interest a Stuart Turner Sandhurst open-crank engine
>fetch £1200 on eBay yesterday and after studying the blurb I found it
>was 150cc and capable of several BHP. I thought it was a scale model
>of a larger engine and maybe it was, but it could also be a full scale
>engine in its own right. I know a little about ST as I have built a
>little Stuart-Turner V twin steam model from a kit, and have a Stuart-
>Turner P5 generator for emergency house power, but I don't know much
>more about the range they produced.
>
>So, my question is, are Stuart-Turner the only company that seem to
>make engines (or engine kits) ranging from scale model to full size
>without a gap in the middle ?? If they made full-scale and models then
>I could understand, but they seem to have pitched some in the middle
>where you are not quite sure if it is one or the other - which seems
>most unusual.
>
>Thanks
>Steve
>
>

S-T have a long history of manufacturing both model and small-hp engines.

I have an old S-T catalogue that lists both models, engines and pumps.

I don't know of another company that has such a diverse range, although these
days the small engines are no longer, but the models and pumps are still
produced, albeit by different companies IIRC.

Peter
--
Peter A Forbes
Prepair Ltd, Rushden, UK
peterforbes@prepair.co.uk
http://www.prepair.co.uk
http://www.prepair.eu

ST were making model IC & steam engines & small
(ie under 2hp) IC engines before 1902-ish. Forgotten
quite when they started, but in the early years they
supplied castings & finished engines. The Sandhurst
was later & splendid, & I last saw new castings for
that at Henley in the '60s. Subject to condition, £1200
is a good price for such a rare lump.

Most of their model engines were not scale -- I can't
remember one that had a well-known prototype
source, not that my memory is any guide ...  They
were always of the current style when first introduced,
& many changed little -- right through 'til recently. I've
lost touch with them now, as they left Henley some
time back &  their business was split up.

The sub-2hp HP engines were sometimes built as
projects, but most were designed for real work --
driving lathes, compressors & suchlike. They were
not cheap, & were considered to be the best castings
around for several decades. (As a stone-broke just-
married youngster, I used to get piles of their reject
castings from the local scrappie for pennies....)

I still have a few ST engines -- 8hp twin marine,
several smaller modern 2 strokes from the 30's &
40's, & my favourite, a 1hp lamp start built in 1904
with a handsome flyball governor.

They also made a delightful motorcycle, but it seems
to have been more a demo of their engineering
prowess, rather than a commercial project. Very few
built, & would have been extremely expensive.

Their main revenues came from their low-HP IC
engines, & their steam engine models -- some of
which did yeoman service as launch engines,
either as single cylinder or multis.

They also were major manufacturers of small
pumps & other ancillaries.

Copies of their early catalogues often turn up. I have
a few from the '00's, '20's & '30's, & the odd more
recent one. Fascinating to see how long some
engines did remain listed, especially the larger
steam models.

Colin

On 29 Apr, 15:47, Colin  wrote:
> ST were making model IC & steam engines & small
> (ie under 2hp) IC engines before 1902-ish. Forgotten
> quite when they started, but in the early years they
> supplied castings & finished engines. The Sandhurst
> was later & splendid, & I last saw new castings for
> that at Henley in the '60s. Subject to condition, £1200
> is a good price for such a rare lump.
>
> Most of their model engines were not scale -- I can't
> remember one that had a well-known prototype
> source, not that my memory is any guide ...  They
> were always of the current style when first introduced,
> & many changed little -- right through 'til recently. I've
> lost touch with them now, as they left Henley some
> time back &  their business was split up.
>
> The sub-2hp HP engines were sometimes built as
> projects, but most were designed for real work --
> driving lathes, compressors & suchlike. They were
> not cheap, & were considered to be the best castings
> around for several decades. (As a stone-broke just-
> married youngster, I used to get piles of their reject
> castings from the local scrappie for pennies....)
>
> I still have a few ST engines -- 8hp twin marine,
> several smaller modern 2 strokes from the 30's &
> 40's, & my favourite, a 1hp lamp start built in 1904
> with a handsome flyball governor.
>
> They also made a delightful motorcycle, but it seems
> to have been more a demo of their engineering
> prowess, rather than a commercial project. Very few
> built, & would have been extremely expensive.
>
> Their main revenues came from their low-HP IC
> engines, & their steam engine models -- some of
> which did yeoman service as launch engines,
> either as single cylinder or multis.
>
> They also were major manufacturers of small
> pumps & other ancillaries.
>
> Copies of their early catalogues often turn up. I have
> a few from the '00's, '20's & '30's, & the odd more
> recent one. Fascinating to see how long some
> engines did remain listed, especially the larger
> steam models.
>
> Colin

Thanks for the info,

I wonder if there is a website out there that lists all the different
models and when they were available.

Now you point it out I think most of them are at best 'based on' an
old design or completely novel, and as such are not scale models.

I have a Bonds catalogue from 1935 which lists 17 ST steam engines and
three IC engines including the Sandhurst (hadn't spotted that before)
and an air-cooled flat twin.

Steve

On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 13:32:44 -0700 (PDT), Steve 
wrote:

>I have a Bonds catalogue from 1935 which lists 17 ST steam engines and
>three IC engines including the Sandhurst (hadn't spotted that before)
>and an air-cooled flat twin.
>
>Steve

We have an original S-T 1923 catalogue, the flat-twin is in there too, plus a
range of small IC engines.

Peter
--
Peter & Rita Forbes
Email: diesel@easynet.co.uk
http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel
http://www.stationary-engine.co.uk
http://www.oldengine.co.uk

On 29 Apr, 21:40, Peter A Forbes  wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 13:32:44 -0700 (PDT), Steve 
> wrote:
>
> >I have a Bonds catalogue from 1935 which lists 17 ST steam engines and
> >three IC engines including the Sandhurst (hadn't spotted that before)
> >and an air-cooled flat twin.
>
> >Steve
>
> We have an original S-T 1923 catalogue, the flat-twin is in there too, plus a
> range of small IC engines.
>
> Peter
> --
> Peter & Rita Forbes
> Email: die...@easynet.co.ukhttp://www.oldengine.org/members/dieselhttp://www.stationary-engine.co.ukhttp://www.oldengine.co.uk

Sounds like they made more than one flat twin IC engine then. In the
1935 Bond's catalogue it is described as 'The New Stuart "A.E." Petrol
Engine', which can be supplied as either air or water cooled.

There's other gems in this catalogue too, like the Bonzone mill engine
- great name ! Sounds more like a cross between dog food and a
children's comic !

Steve

On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 16:27:48 -0700 (PDT), Steve 
wrote:

>Sounds like they made more than one flat twin IC engine then. In the
>1935 Bond's catalogue it is described as 'The New Stuart "A.E." Petrol
>Engine', which can be supplied as either air or water cooled.
>
>There's other gems in this catalogue too, like the Bonzone mill engine
>- great name ! Sounds more like a cross between dog food and a
>children's comic !
>
>Steve

Described as the "AE Petrol Engine", air or water-cooled, 1.5" bore X 1.5"
stroke, 1/2 bhp, 14.5" long, 6.25" wide, 4.25" high. Pushrod operated OHV.

Looks like they were only offered as a kit in 1923.

Peter
--
Peter & Rita Forbes
Email: diesel@easynet.co.uk
http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel
http://www.stationary-engine.co.uk
http://www.oldengine.co.uk

On 30 Apr, 05:05, Peter A Forbes  wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 16:27:48 -0700 (PDT), Steve > wrote:
>
> >Sounds like they made more than one flat twin IC engine then. In the
> >1935 Bond's catalogue it is described as 'The New Stuart "A.E." Petrol
> >Engine', which can be supplied as either air or water cooled.
>
> >There's other gems in this catalogue too, like the Bonzone mill engine
> >- great name ! Sounds more like a cross between dog food and a
> >children's comic !
>
> >Steve
>
> Described as the "AE Petrol Engine", air or water-cooled, 1.5" bore X 1.5"> stroke, 1/2 bhp, 14.5" long, 6.25" wide, 4.25" high. Pushrod operated OHV.> Looks like they were only offered as a kit in 1923.
>
> Peter
> --
> Peter & Rita Forbes
> Email: die...@easynet.co.ukhttp://www.oldengine.org/members/dieselhttp://www.stationary-engine.co.ukhttp://www.oldengine.co.uk

They had gone metric by 1935. 34.5mm bore, 32mm stroke, 3/4 bhp (I
think thats 30cc per cylinder). Crankshaft and camshaft run on ball
bearings. "Especially suitable for boat work". Only available as a set
of castings for £3 19s 6d. But you could build it as a single cylinder
as well.

Maybe they dropped it from the range and then brought it back, hence
calling it new. We are talking about 12 years time difference.

I wonder how many there are out there ?

Steve

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 00:59:35 -0700 (PDT), Steve 
wrote:
>They had gone metric by 1935. 34.5mm bore, 32mm stroke, 3/4 bhp (I
>think thats 30cc per cylinder). Crankshaft and camshaft run on ball
>bearings. "Especially suitable for boat work". Only available as a set
>of castings for £3 19s 6d. But you could build it as a single cylinder
>as well.
>
>Maybe they dropped it from the range and then brought it back, hence
>calling it new. We are talking about 12 years time difference.
>
>I wonder how many there are out there ?
>
>Steve

Not many is my own guess. That was a fair bit of money, even in the 1930's, so
assuming they sold a few hundred, that would leave probably 10 or so extant
these days, possibly a few more if you include collections/museums.

I've never seen one in the flesh, and the late Brian Sharp didn't have one in
his collection of S-T stuff.

Peter
--
Peter A Forbes
Prepair Ltd, Rushden, UK
peterforbes@prepair.co.uk
http://www.prepair.co.uk
http://www.prepair.eu

Me being into both ST stuff & flat twins in general, I'd just love one of 
these 1/2 bhp flatties, but I too have neither seen one in the flesh nor 
even in a decent photo.

I'd be very grateful if someone could scan  me a pic from a catalogue & 
further pleased if  I had their permission to stick it on Webshots in my 
"Stuart Turner Devices" album. As a matter of interest, it attracts a steady 
rate of over 200 hits a week & is the most visited album I have after Merlin 
engines.

Peter's estimate of their survival is optimistic if none of us have ever 
seen one!

regards,

Kim Siddorn

Teach a child to be polite and courteous and you create an adult that can't 
merge a car into faster traffic.


"Peter A Forbes"  wrote in message 
news:0bbg14pfhostu5u6kmulss9gg2a7rvn6jt@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 00:59:35 -0700 (PDT), Steve 
> wrote:
>>They had gone metric by 1935. 34.5mm bore, 32mm stroke, 3/4 bhp (I
>>think thats 30cc per cylinder). Crankshaft and camshaft run on ball
>>bearings. "Especially suitable for boat work". Only available as a set
>>of castings for £3 19s 6d. But you could build it as a single cylinder
>>as well.
>>
>>Maybe they dropped it from the range and then brought it back, hence
>>calling it new. We are talking about 12 years time difference.
>>
>>I wonder how many there are out there ?
>>
>>Steve
>
> Not many is my own guess. That was a fair bit of money, even in the 
> 1930's, so
> assuming they sold a few hundred, that would leave probably 10 or so 
> extant
> these days, possibly a few more if you include collections/museums.
>
> I've never seen one in the flesh, and the late Brian Sharp didn't have one 
> in
> his collection of S-T stuff.
>
> Peter
> --
> Peter A Forbes
> Prepair Ltd, Rushden, UK
> peterforbes@prepair.co.uk
> http://www.prepair.co.uk
> http://www.prepair.eu

Kim Siddorn wrote:(snip)

> 
> Peter's estimate of their survival is optimistic if none of us have ever 
> seen one!
> 

There is/was one in the Brighton and Hove Engineerium collection. Anyone 
know if that museum is up and running again after its last minute repreave?

Nick H

On 2 May, 20:57, NHH  wrote:
> Kim Siddorn wrote:(snip)
>
> > Peter's estimate of their survival is optimistic if none of us have ever
> > seen one!
>
> There is/was one in the Brighton and Hove Engineerium collection. Anyone
> know if that museum is up and running again after its last minute repreave?
>
> Nick H

Wow, what a story that was. Such sadness and such joy, how many people
came from all over the world to buy in the auction and even after it
was delayed and then the announcement, how many were happy that the
collection hadn't split up - even applause.

I think you should pitch this up as a new post to see what people
know. I would dearly like to visit it this year if its open (and the
Chalk Pits Museum in Amberley). That would make a nice tour South from
Cheshire. In fact I think I can see a holiday plan forming.

Steve

On 2 May, 23:33, Steve  wrote:
> On 2 May, 20:57, NHH  wrote:
>
> > Kim Siddorn wrote:(snip)
>
> > > Peter's estimate of their survival is optimistic if none of us have ever
> > > seen one!
>
> > There is/was one in the Brighton and Hove Engineerium collection. Anyone
> > know if that museum is up and running again after its last minute repreave?
>
> > Nick H
>
> Wow, what a story that was. Such sadness and such joy, how many people
> came from all over the world to buy in the auction and even after it
> was delayed and then the announcement, how many were happy that the
> collection hadn't split up - even applause.
>
> I think you should pitch this up as a new post to see what people
> know. I would dearly like to visit it this year if its open (and the
> Chalk Pits Museum in Amberley). That would make a nice tour South from
> Cheshire. In fact I think I can see a holiday plan forming.
>
> Steve

Nothing has been heard from the British Engineerium since the original
press release following the sale. There doesn't seem to be any
activity on the site but I'll try to find out what is happening, I
pass there 3 times a week.
BTW the Amberley Chalk Pits Museum has changed its name to The
Amberley Working Museum. I use to be a volunteer there about 8 years
ago until the railway contingent took priority. Nowadays I can't
afford their prices!

If you are holidaying in the area here is a little known site near
Hastings that is worth a visit, and it's free!
http://www.southernwater.co.uk/homeAndLeisure/daysOut/bredeSteamEngines/bredeOpenDays.asp

Fred

On 3 May, 08:56, g6zru  wrote:
> On 2 May, 23:33, Steve  wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 2 May, 20:57, NHH  wrote:
>
> > > Kim Siddorn wrote:(snip)
>
> > > > Peter's estimate of their survival is optimistic if none of us have ever
> > > > seen one!
>
> > > There is/was one in the Brighton and Hove Engineerium collection. Anyone
> > > know if that museum is up and running again after its last minute repreave?
>
> > > Nick H
>
> > Wow, what a story that was. Such sadness and such joy, how many people
> > came from all over the world to buy in the auction and even after it
> > was delayed and then the announcement, how many were happy that the
> > collection hadn't split up - even applause.
>
> > I think you should pitch this up as a new post to see what people
> > know. I would dearly like to visit it this year if its open (and the
> > Chalk Pits Museum in Amberley). That would make a nice tour South from
> > Cheshire. In fact I think I can see a holiday plan forming.
>
> > Steve
>
> Nothing has been heard from the British Engineerium since the original
> press release following the sale. There doesn't seem to be any
> activity on the site but I'll try to find out what is happening, I
> pass there 3 times a week.
> BTW the Amberley Chalk Pits Museum has changed its name to The
> Amberley Working Museum. I use to be a volunteer there about 8 years
> ago until the railway contingent took priority. Nowadays I can't
> afford their prices!
>
> If you are holidaying in the area here is a little known site near
> Hastings that is worth a visit, and it's free!http://www.southernwater.co.uk/homeAndLeisure/daysOut/bredeSteamEngin...
>
> Fred

Thanks for that Fred.

I used to be a member of the Brockham Museum before it moved to
Amberley. That was nearly 40 years ago. There were some interesting
early diesels in the collection, and I dare say the same engines will
still be there, even if a new generation of people are looking after
them.

If the Engineerium is closed then thats fine, just so long as it will
open again sometime in the future. The first time I heard of it was
when someone pointed out the auction catalogue - and I couldn't
believe the contents. Maybe they should put the auction catalogue up
on their website.

Steve

In message 
, 
g6zru  writes
>On 2 May, 23:33, Steve  wrote:
>> On 2 May, 20:57, NHH  wrote:
>>
>> > Kim Siddorn wrote:(snip)
>>
>> > > Peter's estimate of their survival is optimistic if none of us have ever
>> > > seen one!
>>
>> > There is/was one in the Brighton and Hove Engineerium collection. Anyone
>> > know if that museum is up and running again after its last minute repreave?
>>
>> > Nick H
>>
>> Wow, what a story that was. Such sadness and such joy, how many people
>> came from all over the world to buy in the auction and even after it
>> was delayed and then the announcement, how many were happy that the
>> collection hadn't split up - even applause.
>>
>> I think you should pitch this up as a new post to see what people
>> know. I would dearly like to visit it this year if its open (and the
>> Chalk Pits Museum in Amberley). That would make a nice tour South from
>> Cheshire. In fact I think I can see a holiday plan forming.
>>
>> Steve
>
>Nothing has been heard from the British Engineerium since the original
>press release following the sale. There doesn't seem to be any
>activity on the site but I'll try to find out what is happening, I
>pass there 3 times a week.
>BTW the Amberley Chalk Pits Museum has changed its name to The
>Amberley Working Museum. I use to be a volunteer there about 8 years
>ago until the railway contingent took priority. Nowadays I can't
>afford their prices!
>
>If you are holidaying in the area here is a little known site near
>Hastings that is worth a visit, and it's free!
>http://www.southernwater.co.uk/homeAndLeisure/daysOut/bredeSteamEngines/
>bredeOpenDays.asp
>
>Fred

Very interesting it is  too.  I've been there a couple of times as my 
partner leves only a few miles from it.   Apart from the engines, 
there's a civil defence bunker with quite a lot of original stuff left 
and an amateur radio station operated by a Brede Steam ARS in part of 
the bunker

http://www.radioclubs.net/bsars/about.php

Well worth a visit!

Cheers

Guy
-- 
Guy Morgan
nb Virgo, WFB, Stockton GU
Defend the waterways.
Visit the web site www.saveourwaterways.org.uk