I am a 42 y/o fella returning to weight training after several years of 
sitting on my fat arse drinking beer.

Currently I am a little over 16 stones, and flabby (not obese, I am 6 ft 4 
so I hold it reasonably well). I estimate that I have 20ish % body fat. Not 
dieting yet as my first aim is to get my strength up.

Returned to weights four weeks ago, currently training twice a week as 
follows;

Day 1

20 mins on bike, reasonably vigorously. According to the bikes computer 
thing I burn around 200 calories.

3 sets x 10 reps seated shoulder press with dummies (currently managed 18kg 
per hand, will attempt 20k next week)

3 x 10 chest press with dummies (this week managed 2 x 10 x 22kg per hand 
plus one set of 8)

Then 250 metres swimming (breast stroke)

Day 2

20 mins bike as above

One set of wide grip pullups - this week managed 7 (could only do 4 on the 
first week)

3 x 10 wide grip cable lateral pulldowns (posterior) - currently up to 75kg

3 x 10 on an "Upper Back Machine" like this thing 
http://tinyurl.com/ylkehfo - this week did this on 75 kg

3 x 10 reps shrugs with a bar - currently upto 85 kilo (including the bar)

250 metre swim


I am not currently training my legs as I have long term knee and ankle 
problems. I would like to, but am not currently going to take the risk.

My core strength is coming back, quicker than I'd expected,  I reckon I am 
at 60% or so of my peak.

What I want to do now is introduce some more excercises to broaden my 
routine. I'm not interested in targetting any particular muscle (don't want 
huge, disproportionate biceps or whatever) just in building a well balanced 
frame and plenty of core strength.

So gents, any suggestions?

Flabby wrote:
> <snip>
> I am not currently training my legs as I have long term knee and ankle 
> problems. I would like to, but am not currently going to take the risk.
>   
If you can sit  on a bike and do 20 min you should have no problems
starting life on something like a 45 degree leg-press.
Don't forget that unlike a squat you are not shifting bodyweight+weights
and typically  the platform is significantly lighter than bodyweight.
At least you can then start doing CKE (Closed Kinetic Chain Exercises)
through the full range of motion with a lighter weight than regular squats.
you can also load up slowly and back-off if you hit a weight that starts
aggravating existing conditions. Not  knowing your condition makes it a 
bit  tricky but usually trying to build  up  the strength of the muscles
around  the joint(s) makes for greater  joint stability and less
problems long-term.

> What I want to do now is introduce some more excercises to broaden my 
> routine. I'm not interested in targetting any particular muscle (don't want 
> huge, disproportionate biceps or whatever) just in building a well balanced 
> frame and plenty of core strength.
>   
Argghhhhhh not even a Smiley !! I hope you're not serious about the
"huge disproportinate etc etc"
Firstly as 42 You'll be struggling to get any sort of low-fat "muscular"
physique unless either genetically endowed or you've already been there
and maintained a good physique or have a good steroid supplier and
advisor. So forget all that crap. Holding back for fear of getting too
big is one of the most  annoying statements we hear in the shop from men
and  women alike of  all ages.
But... you're best off sticking to compound movements and exercises and
working somewhere in the 6 to 14 rep. range (12 is a fairly popular number)

You made no mention of any  correction to your diet. Unless  you sort
that then you're on a road to nowhere from  the start.
Work large  muscle groups through to smaller groups.
Depending on what equipment you have available depends on  what you can
go for  but personally I'd suggest doing something like....
day 1 - Chest, Shoulders, Biceps
day 2 - Legs (yes even if it's just higher rep stuff e.g. 15 to 20 reps)
day 3 - Back, Traps, Triceps

Rest days and cardio can be dropped in as and when suits your own
schedule. if 3 days is the very max you can do in the gym then crank
your cardio up to 40 minutes as intense as you can for  the 40 minute
duration AFTER each weights session OR you can drop a cardio session or
a rest  day between weights sessions. e.g.

Monday (Day 1 - Chest, Shoulders, Biceps)(with 40 min. Cardio AFTER weights)
 Tuesday (rest or FULL cardio session)
Wednesday (Day 2 - Legs)(with 40 min. Cardio AFTER weights)
 Thursday (rest or FULL cardio session)
Friday (Day 3 - Back, Traps, Triceps)(with 40 min. Cardio AFTER weights)
 Saturday (rest or FULL 60min. cardio session)
 Sunday (rest or FULL 60min. cardio session) OR Start back on Day 1 so
working a 6 day cycle on your routine.

Obviously the above is a VERY rough suggestion. Swimming shouldn't
beclase as ay form of exercise UNLESS you are doing a stroke that gets
the heart rate elevated and for sufficient duration. My guess is it's a
gentle bob along at the breast stroke or do a length or 2 then rest a
while...
swimming is (for most people) usually more of  a 
rest/recovery/recuperation activity than an "exercise" as it's rearely
done with sufficient intensity.

That's enough from me. Keeping the group alive.
Still got work to  do.
Hope it gives you some ideas though.
Cheers
Pete
--
http://www.gymratz.co.uk/fitness-equipment/ Some Fitness Equipment
http://www.gymratz.co.uk/commercial-gym-equipment/ Commercial Gym Equipment
http://www.gymratz.co.uk/bodybuilding-supplements/ Bodybuilding Supplements
http://www.gymratz.co.uk/wholesale-fat-burners/ Fat Burners and weight
loss aids.

On Fri, 09 Oct 2009 18:21:08 +0100, Flabby wrote:

> Currently I am a little over 16 stones, and flabby (not obese, I am 6 ft
> 4 so I hold it reasonably well). I estimate that I have 20ish % body
> fat. Not dieting yet as my first aim is to get my strength up.

20% based on what? Experience? Calipers? Finger up your arse?

> 
> Returned to weights four weeks ago, currently training twice a week as
> follows;

Ah, returned... Ok.
 
> Day 1
> 
> 20 mins on bike, reasonably vigorously. According to the bikes computer
> thing I burn around 200 calories.

What are you trying to achieve? First you say you're not dieting, then go 
on to point out how much kcals you're using.

> I am not currently training my legs as I have long term knee and ankle
> problems. I would like to, but am not currently going to take the risk.

Fair enough.
 
> My core strength is coming back, quicker than I'd expected,  I reckon I
> am at 60% or so of my peak.
> 
> What I want to do now is introduce some more excercises to broaden my
> routine. I'm not interested in targetting any particular muscle (don't
> want huge, disproportionate biceps or whatever) just in building a well
> balanced frame and plenty of core strength.

Ok.

1) Drop the cardio.
2) Train M/W/F
3) Drop the foo foo exercises.

With no legs, you can have a swing at:

Bench press
Chins (wide pronated grip)
Dips
Military press
T Bar rows
EZ bar curls
Power shrugs

I'd have a go at doing a bit of legs. If you can go on a bike, light squats
may be ok.



-- 
I did think of a naked man blowing a kiss - pet
my elderly un-trained phisique - pet

On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 22:29:24 +0100, www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:

> Firstly as 42 You'll be struggling to get any sort of low-fat "muscular"
> physique unless either genetically endowed or you've already been there
> and maintained a good physique or have a good steroid supplier and
> advisor.

Incorrect. Wow. Aint I in a good mood, I was going to put "utter shite".
Ooops, I did!
I'm none of the above apart from the age and have some sort of low-fat 
"muscular" physique.

> So forget all that crap.

OP said he's not dieting. So low BF isn't an aim.

> Holding back for fear of getting too
> big is one of the most  annoying statements we hear in the shop from men
> and  women alike of  all ages.

Heh, yeah, I love it.

> But... you're best off sticking to compound movements and exercises and
> working somewhere in the 6 to 14 rep. range (12 is a fairly popular
> number)

AYe, popular. Most of the people I see in gyms are neither strong nor 
poster boys for mens health. They probably do 12 reps too.
He wants to get strong. WHich means heavy weights, which means low reps.
I agree with the compound stuff. Can't beat it.

> You made no mention of any  correction to your diet. Unless  you sort

I doubt very much if he has any idea what he's eating in the first place, 
never mind correcting it.

WTF is with people and cardio? I loathe it!
Well, I would if I did it :)

-- 
I did think of a naked man blowing a kiss - pet
my elderly un-trained phisique - pet

"JD"  wrote in message 
news:-8ydnVQEfPuViE7XnZ2dnUVZ8gpi4p2d@pipex.net...
> On Fri, 09 Oct 2009 18:21:08 +0100, Flabby wrote:
>
>> Currently I am a little over 16 stones, and flabby (not obese, I am 6 ft
>> 4 so I hold it reasonably well). I estimate that I have 20ish % body
>> fat. Not dieting yet as my first aim is to get my strength up.
>
> 20% based on what? Experience? Calipers? Finger up your arse?

I've had it measured in the past and reckon I'm qaorund the same level now, 
give of take.

I am not familiar with the finger up the arse method of guaging BF %. Do you 
think you could describe it for me?

>
>>
>> Returned to weights four weeks ago, currently training twice a week as
>> follows;
>
> Ah, returned... Ok.


Yes, it's been a few years now, remarkable how quickly it comes back though.

>
>> Day 1
>>
>> 20 mins on bike, reasonably vigorously. According to the bikes computer
>> thing I burn around 200 calories.
>
> What are you trying to achieve? First you say you're not dieting, then go
> on to point out how much kcals you're using.
>

I was simply using that as an indication of the intensity level of my 
biking.


>> I am not currently training my legs as I have long term knee and ankle
>> problems. I would like to, but am not currently going to take the risk.
>
> Fair enough.
>
>> My core strength is coming back, quicker than I'd expected,  I reckon I
>> am at 60% or so of my peak.
>>
>> What I want to do now is introduce some more excercises to broaden my
>> routine. I'm not interested in targetting any particular muscle (don't
>> want huge, disproportionate biceps or whatever) just in building a well
>> balanced frame and plenty of core strength.
>
> Ok.
>
> 1) Drop the cardio.
> 2) Train M/W/F
> 3) Drop the foo foo exercises.
>
> With no legs, you can have a swing at:
>
> Bench press
> Chins (wide pronated grip)
> Dips
> Military press
> T Bar rows
> EZ bar curls
> Power shrugs
>

Cheers for that, dips & chins I like & am familiar with and will be 
introducing as I get stronger - I don't really want to be that cunt that 
attempts dips but can only do 3 or 4 ;o)

I want to keep it simple and do a small number of multi-joint excercises but 
do them intensively.


> I'd have a go at doing a bit of legs. If you can go on a bike, light 
> squats
> may be ok.
>

I will.
I think.
Maybe.

"www.GymRatZ.co.uk"  wrote in 
message news:hatink$pjb$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Flabby wrote:
>> <snip>
>> I am not currently training my legs as I have long term knee and ankle
>> problems. I would like to, but am not currently going to take the risk.
>>
> If you can sit  on a bike and do 20 min you should have no problems
> starting life on something like a 45 degree leg-press.

You're probably right, I maybe being a little over cautious.

> Don't forget that unlike a squat you are not shifting bodyweight+weights
> and typically  the platform is significantly lighter than bodyweight.
> At least you can then start doing CKE (Closed Kinetic Chain Exercises)
> through the full range of motion with a lighter weight than regular 
> squats.
> you can also load up slowly and back-off if you hit a weight that starts
> aggravating existing conditions. Not  knowing your condition makes it a
> bit  tricky but usually trying to build  up  the strength of the muscles
> around  the joint(s) makes for greater  joint stability and less
> problems long-term.

My legs aren't actually in bad nick. Quite strong (considering the 
inactivity) not skinny.

It's the ankle and knee joints that are the problem. Ankles I've had trouble 
with since my 20s and knees for the last 5 years or so. Not had any surgery 
or anything like that, just recurrent injuries (part of the reason I stopped 
lifting weights a few yeats ago). Also, my old man had a a miserable time 
with joint problems so I'm a bit paranoid about it.


>> What I want to do now is introduce some more excercises to broaden my
>> routine. I'm not interested in targetting any particular muscle (don't 
>> want
>> huge, disproportionate biceps or whatever) just in building a well 
>> balanced
>> frame and plenty of core strength.
>>
> Argghhhhhh not even a Smiley !! I hope you're not serious about the
> "huge disproportinate etc etc"

Well, I don't want to look like this fella

http://tinyurl.com/4m9ufo


> Firstly as 42 You'll be struggling to get any sort of low-fat "muscular"
> physique unless either genetically endowed or you've already been there
> and maintained a good physique or have a good steroid supplier and
> advisor. So forget all that crap. Holding back for fear of getting too
> big is one of the most  annoying statements we hear in the shop from men
> and  women alike of  all ages.

Oh I'm not afraid of getting big. I just want it to be balanced.

> But... you're best off sticking to compound movements and exercises and
> working somewhere in the 6 to 14 rep. range (12 is a fairly popular 
> number)

Cheers. I used to go for a maximum of 10reps (which I'm doing now) and 
usually 6 to 8. As I strengthen I'm aiming to reduce reps (and add weight)

> You made no mention of any  correction to your diet. Unless  you sort
> that then you're on a road to nowhere from  the start.

Ok. I've cut most of the crap out. While not counting calories (or anything 
else)  I am trying to eat healthily with plenty of chicken, tuna, a bit of 
beef. Getting my fair share of carbs (bread & pasta mainly) & even manage to 
chug down a salad once in a while.

Not taking suppliments at the moment but I have a big tub of whey in the 
garage and will be getting into that in due course.


> Work large  muscle groups through to smaller groups.
> Depending on what equipment you have available depends on  what you can
> go for  but personally I'd suggest doing something like....
> day 1 - Chest, Shoulders, Biceps
> day 2 - Legs (yes even if it's just higher rep stuff e.g. 15 to 20 reps)
> day 3 - Back, Traps, Triceps
>
> Rest days and cardio can be dropped in as and when suits your own
> schedule. if 3 days is the very max you can do in the gym then crank
> your cardio up to 40 minutes as intense as you can for  the 40 minute
> duration AFTER each weights session OR you can drop a cardio session or
> a rest  day between weights sessions. e.g.
>
> Monday (Day 1 - Chest, Shoulders, Biceps)(with 40 min. Cardio AFTER 
> weights)
> Tuesday (rest or FULL cardio session)
> Wednesday (Day 2 - Legs)(with 40 min. Cardio AFTER weights)
> Thursday (rest or FULL cardio session)
> Friday (Day 3 - Back, Traps, Triceps)(with 40 min. Cardio AFTER weights)
> Saturday (rest or FULL 60min. cardio session)
> Sunday (rest or FULL 60min. cardio session) OR Start back on Day 1 so
> working a 6 day cycle on your routine.
>

I'm really only going to get there 3 days a week.

At the moment I consider my 20 mins on the bike as a warm up rather than 
cardio.


> Obviously the above is a VERY rough suggestion. Swimming shouldn't
> beclase as ay form of exercise UNLESS you are doing a stroke that gets
> the heart rate elevated and for sufficient duration. My guess is it's a
> gentle bob along at the breast stroke or do a length or 2 then rest a
> while...
> swimming is (for most people) usually more of  a
> rest/recovery/recuperation activity than an "exercise" as it's rearely
> done with sufficient intensity.

I swim quite intensively, and do raise my HR.

>
> That's enough from me. Keeping the group alive.
> Still got work to  do.
> Hope it gives you some ideas though.

Yep, cheers for the advice.

Flabby wrote:
> I am not familiar with the finger up the arse method of guaging BF %. Do you 
> think you could describe it for me?
>   
I'm sure JD would be happy to demonstrate.
:¬)

:-D

On Mon, 12 Oct 2009 21:46:56 +0100, www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:

> Flabby wrote:
>> I am not familiar with the finger up the arse method of guaging BF %.
>> Do you think you could describe it for me?
>>   
> I'm sure JD would be happy to demonstrate. :¬)

Yes, set your webcam up pet, I'll be round in a minute





-- 
I did think of a naked man blowing a kiss - pet
my elderly un-trained phisique - pet

On Mon, 12 Oct 2009 16:16:21 +0100, Flabby wrote:

> "JD"  wrote in message
> news:-8ydnVQEfPuViE7XnZ2dnUVZ8gpi4p2d@pipex.net...
>> On Fri, 09 Oct 2009 18:21:08 +0100, Flabby wrote:
>>
>>> Currently I am a little over 16 stones, and flabby (not obese, I am 6
>>> ft 4 so I hold it reasonably well). I estimate that I have 20ish %
>>> body fat. Not dieting yet as my first aim is to get my strength up.
>>
>> 20% based on what? Experience? Calipers? Finger up your arse?
> 
> I've had it measured in the past and reckon I'm qaorund the same level
> now, give of take.

Ah, fair enough.

> I am not familiar with the finger up the arse method of guaging BF %. Do
> you think you could describe it for me?

Yes, it involves people with no experience of BF looking in the mirror and 
guessing. A more technical and modern version is called "Tanita"
 
>> What are you trying to achieve? First you say you're not dieting, then
>> go on to point out how much kcals you're using.
>>
>>
> I was simply using that as an indication of the intensity level of my
> biking.

Why go on the bike? What are you trying to achieve?
fwiw, I never warm up using cardio. I warm up using the exercise I'm about
to do.
 
>> 1) Drop the cardio.
>> 2) Train M/W/F
>> 3) Drop the foo foo exercises.
>>
>> With no legs, you can have a swing at:
>>
>> Bench press
>> Chins (wide pronated grip)
>> Dips
>> Military press
>> T Bar rows
>> EZ bar curls
>> Power shrugs
>>
>>
> Cheers for that, dips & chins I like & am familiar with and will be
> introducing as I get stronger - I don't really want to be that cunt that
> attempts dips but can only do 3 or 4 ;o)

Don't wait. Do them from the get go. 3 or 4 is better than none.
I do 3 sets of 5, so 4 isn't that bad.
 
> I want to keep it simple and do a small number of multi-joint excercises
> but do them intensively.

The above cover your upper body. Aim for 5 - 8 reps, 3 sets, last set 
close to failure. That's intense enough.

Of course, if you have no idea how much your eating, all of the above is a 
waste of fucking time.
 
>> I'd have a go at doing a bit of legs. If you can go on a bike, light
>> squats
>> may be ok.
>>
>>
> I will.
> I think.
> Maybe.

Go and see a sports physio and ask, ffs.
Leg extensions and leg curls remove the ankle from the problem, btw.





-- 
I did think of a naked man blowing a kiss - pet
my elderly un-trained phisique - pet

On Mon, 12 Oct 2009 16:35:32 +0100, Flabby wrote:


> Cheers. I used to go for a maximum of 10reps (which I'm doing now) and
> usually 6 to 8.

Stick with that.

> As I strengthen I'm aiming to reduce reps (and add
> weight)

No. Keep reps the same and add weight.
 
> Ok. I've cut most of the crap out. While not counting calories (or
> anything else)  I am trying to eat healthily with plenty of chicken,
> tuna, a bit of beef. Getting my fair share of carbs (bread & pasta
> mainly) & even manage to chug down a salad once in a while.


> Not taking suppliments at the moment but I have a big tub of whey in the
> garage and will be getting into that in due course.

Why? You have no idea how much your eating now, so supplementing an 
unknown quantity is a waste of time and money.
 rest/recovery/recuperation
>> swimming is (for most people) usually more of  a
>> rest/recovery/recuperation activity than an "exercise"

rest/recovery/recuperation/leering at birds


-- 
I did think of a naked man blowing a kiss - pet
my elderly un-trained phisique - pet

> Why go on the bike? What are you trying to achieve?


I suppose I'm trying to not drop down dead from a heart attack in 20 years 
time.

Besides 20 mins mild cardio 2 or 3 times a week ain't gonna do me any harm 
is it?


> fwiw, I never warm up using cardio. I warm up using the exercise I'm about
> to do.

Oh I do that too. Just a number of reps with smaller load. Is that what you 
mean?


Did my back & traps session yesterday.

The "Upper Back" thing was busted so I concentrated on traps. Went a bit 
crazy and loaded the bar up to 110kg. Managed my 3 x 10, with reasonable 
form too (I reckon)  Surprising what you can do when you try. Suffering for 
it today though.

On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 13:09:07 +0100, Flabby wrote:

>> Why go on the bike? What are you trying to achieve?
> 
> 
> I suppose I'm trying to not drop down dead from a heart attack in 20
> years time.

Ah, I see. I think you're wasting your time in that case then.
The weights will give better CV training. With the correct routine of 
course. Triceps kickbacks won't hack it.

> Besides 20 mins mild cardio 2 or 3 times a week ain't gonna do me any
> harm is it?

Didn't Jim Fitt, the bloke that invented jogging, die of a heart attack? 

> 
>> fwiw, I never warm up using cardio. I warm up using the exercise I'm
>> about to do.
> 
> Oh I do that too. Just a number of reps with smaller load. Is that what
> you mean?

Yes. Lighter weight, plenty of reps. Increase weight until your doing your 
work sets.

> Did my back & traps session yesterday.
> 
> The "Upper Back" thing was busted so I concentrated on traps. Went a bit
> crazy and loaded the bar up to 110kg. Managed my 3 x 10, with reasonable
> form too (I reckon)  Surprising what you can do when you try. Suffering
> for it today though.

So, just to sum up, you said you wanted to do multi joint exercises and 
only train upper body, this turns out to mean traps, ffs.

You are able to do full upper body in a single session, why don't you?





-- 
I did think of a naked man blowing a kiss - pet
my elderly un-trained phisique - pet

"JD"  wrote in message 
news:wMidnTPBSJs7aEjXnZ2dnUVZ8kxi4p2d@pipex.net...
> On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 13:09:07 +0100, Flabby wrote:
>> Did my back & traps session yesterday.
>>
>> The "Upper Back" thing was busted so I concentrated on traps. Went a bit
>> crazy and loaded the bar up to 110kg. Managed my 3 x 10, with reasonable
>> form too (I reckon)  Surprising what you can do when you try. Suffering
>> for it today though.
>
> So, just to sum up, you said you wanted to do multi joint exercises and
> only train upper body, this turns out to mean traps, ffs.


Did I say that?

Did I?