On Fri, 03 Aug 2007 00:42:19 +0100, Gus Cabre wrote:
> "Ric"  wrote in message
> news:46ab2351$0$25925$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr...
>> Here in France "fox" is universally used (even by ATC) in place of ICAO
>> standard "foxtrot". Has this found favour in the UK? Or do you all
>> still say "foxtrot"? It has been years since I flew in UK!
> 
> Ric,
> 
> Answering your question: no, it has not found favour in the UK and ,
> yes, we still say foxtrot. I have only heard it once out of France and
> have  flown quite a bit  in Europe and in South America. For me, "Fox"
> is a French variant.
> 
> If it is correct or not, that is another issue. I have heard many pilots
> in the UK call "Finals" when ICAO says "Final"."Finals" is wrong.

There is plenty of bad RT, but that's got to be one of the most pointless
mistakes to comment on: it's universally used, and offers no possibility
of confusion. The only reason to say it is to show what kind of anorak you
wear ;-)

OTSO 'fox', my RT instructor (and FISO) admitted that one of the school
planes at his field was normally referred to on radio as "golf fox x" - as
long as there's no risk of confusion, surely it's only anorak-wearers
could object.

(In effect, "golf fox x" is a local idiom, similar to saying "queue en
aitch" rather than "quebec november hotel")

I notice that many French ground stations drop the "golf" from "golf
whisky lima".

A.

The reason for ICAO is to standardise phonetics and reduce the
likelyhood of error. Many phonetics have more than one syllable to
further reduce the likelyhood of error.

Could Fox also sound like Box or Socks?

Sounds to melike it's just plain laziness.



On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 12:17:27 +0100, "A"  wrote:

>On Fri, 03 Aug 2007 00:42:19 +0100, Gus Cabre wrote:
>> "Ric"  wrote in message
>> news:46ab2351$0$25925$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr...
>>> Here in France "fox" is universally used (even by ATC) in place of ICAO
>>> standard "foxtrot". Has this found favour in the UK? Or do you all
>>> still say "foxtrot"? It has been years since I flew in UK!
>> 
>> Ric,
>> 
>> Answering your question: no, it has not found favour in the UK and ,
>> yes, we still say foxtrot. I have only heard it once out of France and
>> have  flown quite a bit  in Europe and in South America. For me, "Fox"
>> is a French variant.
>> 
>> If it is correct or not, that is another issue. I have heard many pilots
>> in the UK call "Finals" when ICAO says "Final"."Finals" is wrong.
>
>There is plenty of bad RT, but that's got to be one of the most pointless
>mistakes to comment on: it's universally used, and offers no possibility
>of confusion. The only reason to say it is to show what kind of anorak you
>wear ;-)
>
>OTSO 'fox', my RT instructor (and FISO) admitted that one of the school
>planes at his field was normally referred to on radio as "golf fox x" - as
>long as there's no risk of confusion, surely it's only anorak-wearers
>could object.
>
>(In effect, "golf fox x" is a local idiom, similar to saying "queue en
>aitch" rather than "quebec november hotel")
>
>I notice that many French ground stations drop the "golf" from "golf
>whisky lima".
>
>A.

Back in the old days (Second World War and Korea) the US and Uk armed 
forces (and all the others I presume) had their own phonetic alphabets. 
The American one started Able, Baker, etc., and the English one with Ack 
and Beer (hence Ack Ack guns). This led, as you can imagine, to some 
confusion so an international standard phonetic alphabet was created. 
Until the international standard is changed Foxtrot is the correct 
keyword for the letter F. If you think this should be changed, take it 
up with ICAO.

NOSPAM@easily.co.uk wrote:
> The reason for ICAO is to standardise phonetics and reduce the
> likelyhood of error. Many phonetics have more than one syllable to
> further reduce the likelyhood of error.
> 
> Could Fox also sound like Box or Socks?
> 
> Sounds to melike it's just plain laziness.
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 12:17:27 +0100, "A"  wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 03 Aug 2007 00:42:19 +0100, Gus Cabre wrote:
>>> "Ric"  wrote in message
>>> news:46ab2351$0$25925$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr...
>>>> Here in France "fox" is universally used (even by ATC) in place of ICAO
>>>> standard "foxtrot". Has this found favour in the UK? Or do you all
>>>> still say "foxtrot"? It has been years since I flew in UK!
>>> Ric,
>>>
>>> Answering your question: no, it has not found favour in the UK and ,
>>> yes, we still say foxtrot. I have only heard it once out of France and
>>> have  flown quite a bit  in Europe and in South America. For me, "Fox"
>>> is a French variant.
>>>
>>> If it is correct or not, that is another issue. I have heard many pilots
>>> in the UK call "Finals" when ICAO says "Final"."Finals" is wrong.
>> There is plenty of bad RT, but that's got to be one of the most pointless
>> mistakes to comment on: it's universally used, and offers no possibility
>> of confusion. The only reason to say it is to show what kind of anorak you
>> wear ;-)
>>
>> OTSO 'fox', my RT instructor (and FISO) admitted that one of the school
>> planes at his field was normally referred to on radio as "golf fox x" - as
>> long as there's no risk of confusion, surely it's only anorak-wearers
>> could object.
>>
>> (In effect, "golf fox x" is a local idiom, similar to saying "queue en
>> aitch" rather than "quebec november hotel")
>>
>> I notice that many French ground stations drop the "golf" from "golf
>> whisky lima".
>>
>> A.

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 16:16:02 +0100, NOSPA wrote:
>>OTSO 'fox', my RT instructor (and FISO) admitted that one of the school
>>planes at his field was normally referred to on radio as "golf fox x" - as
>>long as there's no risk of confusion, surely it's only anorak-wearers
>>could object.
>>
>>(In effect, "golf fox x" is a local idiom, similar to saying "queue en
>>aitch" rather than "quebec november hotel")

> The reason for ICAO is to standardise phonetics and reduce the
> likelyhood of error. Many phonetics have more than one syllable to
> further reduce the likelyhood of error.
> 
> Could Fox also sound like Box or Socks?
> 
> Sounds to melike it's just plain laziness.

Yes, it is laziness - or efficiency, as it might also be called.

I'm sure that if "golf box x-ray" or "golf socks x-ray" ever entered the
circuit, the fiso would address G-FX using the correct phonetics.