Apologies if this has been raised before... this is my first visit to
the NG.

I have 600+ CDs in my collection, and we're in the process of renovating
the house. At the moment they're all stacked up in inaccessible piles,
ready for the fitting of a new shelving system in which to store them
permanently once all the work is done.

...and then someone pointed me towards an iPod for the first time, and I
saw the possibilities of saving a whole stack of cash and space by not
getting any proper shelving at all, and simply putting all my music onto
an iPod instead.

The logic here is pretty sound, except for the sound itself. The quality
of the compressed files on the iPod when played through my hi-fi system
leaves something to be desired. (And, although an iPod has incredible
storage capacity for it's small size, it would not take my entire
collection in an uncompressed state.)

I have been so satisfied with my aged hi-fi system that I have sort of
'lost the plot' as regards the current state of the art, but the iPod
idea set me thinking...

Is there is a hi-fi unit sized machine available on the market yet which
has the capacity to enable digital storage of  several hundred
_uncompressed_ CDs? I think I'm talking in TBs here.

What I am thinking of would be a sort of non-portable 'grown-up' iPod,
which would have all the convenience of the iPod combined with the sound
quality of a genuine hi-fi unit.

Does one exist yet?

Regards,
Meehan

Meehan Mydog wrote:
> Apologies if this has been raised before... this is my first visit to
> the NG.
> 
> I have 600+ CDs in my collection, and we're in the process of renovating
> the house. At the moment they're all stacked up in inaccessible piles,
> ready for the fitting of a new shelving system in which to store them
> permanently once all the work is done.
> 
> ...and then someone pointed me towards an iPod for the first time, and I
> saw the possibilities of saving a whole stack of cash and space by not
> getting any proper shelving at all, and simply putting all my music onto
> an iPod instead.
> 
> The logic here is pretty sound, except for the sound itself. The quality
> of the compressed files on the iPod when played through my hi-fi system
> leaves something to be desired. (And, although an iPod has incredible
> storage capacity for it's small size, it would not take my entire
> collection in an uncompressed state.)
> 
> I have been so satisfied with my aged hi-fi system that I have sort of
> 'lost the plot' as regards the current state of the art, but the iPod
> idea set me thinking...
> 
> Is there is a hi-fi unit sized machine available on the market yet which
> has the capacity to enable digital storage of  several hundred
> _uncompressed_ CDs? I think I'm talking in TBs here.
> 
> What I am thinking of would be a sort of non-portable 'grown-up' iPod,
> which would have all the convenience of the iPod combined with the sound
> quality of a genuine hi-fi unit.
> 
> Does one exist yet?
> 
> Regards,
> Meehan
> 
> 
>


My main wish for an iPod is that it should have no associated pc 
software - just appear as a hard drive, so I can do my own managing.

d

Meehan Mydog wrote:
> 
> The logic here is pretty sound, except for the sound itself. The quality
> of the compressed files on the iPod when played through my hi-fi system
> leaves something to be desired.

I hope you are *not* using the headphone connector to connect! Find a 
docking station and connect to that.

  (And, although an iPod has incredible
> storage capacity for it's small size, it would not take my entire
> collection in an uncompressed state.)
> 

I use a Slimdevices (now logitech) Squeezebox 3 with a cheap HP proliant 
server for storage, for the house. That bunch is not HiFi unit shaped, 
but the server lives at the bottom of the garden in a shed so I don't 
see it. The unit itself is small but with a clear display you can see 
for quite a distance.

http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_squeezebox.html

Lately, they have come out with the HiFi shaped 'unload your wallet' 
Transporter

http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_transporter.html

Then, then the hide it away 'Duet' with colour LCD controller

http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_duet.html

Lastly, the 'boom' (which I'm tempted to use as a kick-ass clock radio)

http://www.slimdevices.com/

There is also Sonus who do the same type of thing comparable with the 
Duet for multi-room.

http://www.sonos.com

And others I have missed .... :-)

-- 
Adrian C

Meehan Mydog wrote:

> 
> What I am thinking of would be a sort of non-portable 'grown-up' iPod,
> which would have all the convenience of the iPod combined with the sound
> quality of a genuine hi-fi unit.
> 
> Does one exist yet?
> 
> Regards,
> Meehan
> 


http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_duet.html
http://www.roku.com/products_soundbridge.php
http://www.helios-labs.com/us/products/X5000/x5000_tech_specs.shtml

For a start

-- 
Nick

In article <_PadnS7MbJ8lBVLVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@posted.plusnet>, Don
Pearce
 wrote:


> My main wish for an iPod is that it should have no associated pc
> software - just appear as a hard drive, so I can do my own managing.

Are there no portable music replay devices that do that? I might be
interested in one I could load standard LPCM files onto as a USB HD. But I
am averse to both 'data reduced' formats and to the operating systems
implied by the 'management' software which something like an iPod seems to
demand.

I have wondered also about devices like the Olympus and Zoom recorders on
this basis...

Slainte,

Jim

-- 
Change 'noise' to 'jcgl' if you wish to email me.
Electronics  http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio  http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc  http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Jim Lesurf wrote:
> In article <_PadnS7MbJ8lBVLVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@posted.plusnet>, Don
> Pearce
>  wrote:
> 
> 
>> My main wish for an iPod is that it should have no associated pc
>> software - just appear as a hard drive, so I can do my own managing.
> 
> Are there no portable music replay devices that do that? I might be
> interested in one I could load standard LPCM files onto as a USB HD. But I
> am averse to both 'data reduced' formats and to the operating systems
> implied by the 'management' software which something like an iPod seems to
> demand.
> 
> I have wondered also about devices like the Olympus and Zoom recorders on
> this basis...
> 
> Slainte,
> 
> Jim
> 

I have a TomTom sat nav that appears as a drive on my PC, and has a 
directory called MP3, in which I can put music files, but that is 
obviously for the car only. It can't play lpcm or anything but mp3.

d

Don Pearce wrote:

> I have a TomTom sat nav that appears as a drive on my PC, and has a 
> directory called MP3, in which I can put music files, but that is 
> obviously for the car only. It can't play lpcm or anything but mp3.

Over a few hundred tracks, you'll need *some* management software if not 
iTunes. Show me an explorer folder of an MP3 device, and folder on a 
hard drive and ask me to identify non-matched or duplicated (i.e. 
non-replicated) files, and I'll run thaaaaaaaaat way ..... ->

-- 
Adrian C

"Nick Gorham"  wrote in message 
news:0054e2cc$0$2519$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> Meehan Mydog wrote:
>
>>
>> What I am thinking of would be a sort of non-portable 'grown-up' iPod,
>> which would have all the convenience of the iPod combined with the sound
>> quality of a genuine hi-fi unit.
>>
>> Does one exist yet?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Meehan
>>
>
>
> http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_duet.html
> http://www.roku.com/products_soundbridge.php
> http://www.helios-labs.com/us/products/X5000/x5000_tech_specs.shtml
>
> For a start
>

But it'd probably be cheaper to put up those shelves!

David.

Adrian C wrote:
> Don Pearce wrote:
> 
>> I have a TomTom sat nav that appears as a drive on my PC, and has a 
>> directory called MP3, in which I can put music files, but that is 
>> obviously for the car only. It can't play lpcm or anything but mp3.
> 
> Over a few hundred tracks, you'll need *some* management software if not 
> iTunes. Show me an explorer folder of an MP3 device, and folder on a 
> hard drive and ask me to identify non-matched or duplicated (i.e. 
> non-replicated) files, and I'll run thaaaaaaaaat way ..... ->
> 

My music folder is pretty well managed manually. The first layer is the 
artist, after that an album name (or misc), followed by the music itself.

d

On 16 Sep, 12:20, Meehan Mydog <not@all> wrote:
> Apologies if this has been raised before... this is my first visit to
> the NG.
>
> I have 600 CDs in my collection, and we're in the process of renovating
> the house. At the moment they're all stacked up in inaccessible piles,
> ready for the fitting of a new shelving system in which to store them
> permanently once all the work is done.
>
> ...and then someone pointed me towards an iPod for the first time, and I
> saw the possibilities of saving a whole stack of cash and space by not
> getting any proper shelving at all, and simply putting all my music onto
> an iPod instead.
>
> The logic here is pretty sound, except for the sound itself. The quality
> of the compressed files on the iPod when played through my hi-fi system
> leaves something to be desired. (And, although an iPod has incredible
> storage capacity for it's small size, it would not take my entire
> collection in an uncompressed state.)
>
> I have been so satisfied with my aged hi-fi system that I have sort of
> 'lost the plot' as regards the current state of the art, but the iPod
> idea set me thinking...
>
> Is there is a hi-fi unit sized machine available on the market yet which
> has the capacity to enable digital storage of  several hundred
> _uncompressed_ CDs? I think I'm talking in TBs here.
>
> What I am thinking of would be a sort of non-portable 'grown-up' iPod,
> which would have all the convenience of the iPod combined with the sound
> quality of a genuine hi-fi unit.
>
> Does one exist yet?
>
> Regards,
> Meehan

You might have a look at http://www.sooloos.com/www/index.php  - if
only to admire Mayara on the floor.

Don Pearce wrote:
> Adrian C wrote:

>> Over a few hundred tracks, you'll need *some* management software if 
>> not iTunes. Show me an explorer folder of an MP3 device, and folder on 
>> a hard drive and ask me to identify non-matched or duplicated (i.e. 
>> non-replicated) files, and I'll run thaaaaaaaaat way ..... ->
>>
> 
> My music folder is pretty well managed manually. The first layer is the 
> artist, after that an album name (or misc), followed by the music itself.
> 

Used to do that. A labour of love with many compilations with all tracks 
not from the same artist. For me, easier to throw all into iTunes and 
let that sort it all out, read tags, identify genres, attach pretty 
album artwork and build 'Genius' play lists ...

... & later ...

  and inform Apple which tracks are 'missing' from my collection, which 
TV shows and films have been added from 'elsewhere', what religious, 
sexual and political persuasion I have (for later subliminal 
'adjustment'), the depth of my pocket buying tracks and iPod 
accessories, and the hours, minutes and seconds I have left on planet earth.

Oh hang on, there's a knock on the door ....

-- 
Adrian C

Adrian C wrote:
> Don Pearce wrote:
>> Adrian C wrote:
> 
>>> Over a few hundred tracks, you'll need *some* management software if 
>>> not iTunes. Show me an explorer folder of an MP3 device, and folder 
>>> on a hard drive and ask me to identify non-matched or duplicated 
>>> (i.e. non-replicated) files, and I'll run thaaaaaaaaat way ..... ->
>>>
>>
>> My music folder is pretty well managed manually. The first layer is 
>> the artist, after that an album name (or misc), followed by the music 
>> itself.
>>
> 
> Used to do that. A labour of love with many compilations with all tracks 
> not from the same artist. For me, easier to throw all into iTunes and 
> let that sort it all out, read tags, identify genres, attach pretty 
> album artwork and build 'Genius' play lists ...
> 
> ... & later ...
> 
>  and inform Apple which tracks are 'missing' from my collection, which 
> TV shows and films have been added from 'elsewhere', what religious, 
> sexual and political persuasion I have (for later subliminal 
> 'adjustment'), the depth of my pocket buying tracks and iPod 
> accessories, and the hours, minutes and seconds I have left on planet 
> earth.
> 
> Oh hang on, there's a knock on the door ....
> 

The grim reaper?

I'm not interested in genres, playlists etc. It is my music, and I know 
what I have. All I need is a simple, logical way to find it. A directory 
structure of my own devising is precisely that.

d

Meehan Mydog  wrote... 

> Does one exist yet?

The nearest thing is the Arcam MS250,£3,000
http://www.arcam.co.uk/prod_fmj_ms250_intro.cfm
 which could just hold your current CD collection.

-- 
Ken

http://www.members.lycos.co.uk/buddyduck/

Don Pearce wrote:
> Adrian C wrote:
>> Don Pearce wrote:
>>> Adrian C wrote:
>>
>>>> Over a few hundred tracks, you'll need *some* management software if 
>>>> not iTunes. Show me an explorer folder of an MP3 device, and folder 
>>>> on a hard drive and ask me to identify non-matched or duplicated 
>>>> (i.e. non-replicated) files, and I'll run thaaaaaaaaat way ..... ->
>>>>
>>>
>>> My music folder is pretty well managed manually. The first layer is 
>>> the artist, after that an album name (or misc), followed by the music 
>>> itself.
>>>
>>
>> Used to do that. A labour of love with many compilations with all 
>> tracks not from the same artist. For me, easier to throw all into 
>> iTunes and let that sort it all out, read tags, identify genres, 
>> attach pretty album artwork and build 'Genius' play lists ...
>>
>> ... & later ...
>>
>>  and inform Apple which tracks are 'missing' from my collection, which 
>> TV shows and films have been added from 'elsewhere', what religious, 
>> sexual and political persuasion I have (for later subliminal 
>> 'adjustment'), the depth of my pocket buying tracks and iPod 
>> accessories, and the hours, minutes and seconds I have left on planet 
>> earth.
>>
>> Oh hang on, there's a knock on the door ....
>>
> 
> The grim reaper?
> 
> I'm not interested in genres, playlists etc. It is my music, and I know 
> what I have. All I need is a simple, logical way to find it. A directory 
> structure of my own devising is precisely that.
> 

I've now lost track of my digital music - well over 1000 artists.

I find iTunes a good method of organising, lossless compression and a 
Mac Mini a good way of storing/serving, and an iPod Touch a good way of 
accessing. The Touch is also a good portable device, although storage is 
limited.

Rob

Rob wrote:

>>
>> I'm not interested in genres, playlists etc. It is my music, and I 
>> know what I have. All I need is a simple, logical way to find it. A 
>> directory structure of my own devising is precisely that.
>>
> 
> I've now lost track of my digital music - well over 1000 artists.
> 

Are there that many artists? The number I consider listening to doesn't 
exceed a few dozen, I think.

> I find iTunes a good method of organising, lossless compression and a 
> Mac Mini a good way of storing/serving, and an iPod Touch a good way of 
> accessing. The Touch is also a good portable device, although storage is 
> limited.
> 
> Rob

I just have this thing about software that tries to take over control of 
me. I dislike it instantly. I did allow iTunes onto my machine once, but 
I don't think it even lasted the day before I had kicked it off again 
for being arrogant and rude. For example I have a few audio books in MP3 
form, and it wouldn't let me put them in the audio books department - 
insisted they were unknown music. I won't put up with that kind of thing.

d

Don Pearce wrote:
> Rob wrote:
> 
>>>
>>> I'm not interested in genres, playlists etc. It is my music, and I 
>>> know what I have. All I need is a simple, logical way to find it. A 
>>> directory structure of my own devising is precisely that.
>>>
>>
>> I've now lost track of my digital music - well over 1000 artists.
>>
> 
> Are there that many artists? The number I consider listening to doesn't 
> exceed a few dozen, I think.
>

Well, I'd imagine the number that count *themselves* as artists probably 
runs into millions ;-)

I have quite a few compilations - the Stiff record set is probably 40 
artists for example.

>> I find iTunes a good method of organising, lossless compression and a 
>> Mac Mini a good way of storing/serving, and an iPod Touch a good way 
>> of accessing. The Touch is also a good portable device, although 
>> storage is limited.
>>
>> Rob
> 
> I just have this thing about software that tries to take over control of 
> me. I dislike it instantly. I did allow iTunes onto my machine once, but 
> I don't think it even lasted the day before I had kicked it off again 
> for being arrogant and rude. For example I have a few audio books in MP3 
> form, and it wouldn't let me put them in the audio books department - 
> insisted they were unknown music. I won't put up with that kind of thing.
> 

Yes, it does have some highly irritating habits, and I've just had a 
look and my audio books are podcasts apparently. But for listening to 
music at the end of the day, about now in fact, I think it's great. I 
can access anything by name in seconds. The latest update looks good, 
and the Genius feature really does work (for me, so far, YMMV etc).

Rob

Rob wrote:
> can access anything by name in seconds. The latest update looks good, 
> and the Genius feature really does work (for me, so far, YMMV etc).

Yup, Genius is pretty cool. But, pray hope it don't continue it's 
self-awareness feature and start World War Three as in the movie!

BTW There is a similar program called MusicIP. Haven't had the balls yet 
to let *that* loose on SqueezeCenter (the software behind my 
Squeezebox), but it does work on other PC MP3 collections for 
'intelligent' auto-play.

-- 
Adrian C

Okay, thanks everyone.

I think what I had in mind was something along the lines of the Arcam, 
although I think that 400GB is a little bit mean when you consider that 
160GB iPods have been around for a while. Surely if something is that 
much physically bigger than an iPod it could be made with much more 
storage space.

The Sooloos thing looks a good system, but I wouldn't be happy to invest 
in a machine that didn't let me import my own CDs. (Am I reading that 
right... you have to buy tailored 'packages' of music from them?) I 
would want it to be rip-enabled.

I must admit, I really thought that the type of machine I'm thinking of 
would be far more common in the world of hi-fi, especially in the light 
of the iPod phenomenon. Surely it can't be too difficult to design a 
hi-fi sized box with a CD reader, at least 1TB of storage space, and 
some sort of operating system similar to an iPod... can it? How come the 
major players aren't churning them out at a rate of knots?

Regards,
Meehan

Meehan Mydog <not@all> wrote:

>Okay, thanks everyone.
>
>I think what I had in mind was something along the lines of the Arcam, 
>although I think that 400GB is a little bit mean when you consider that 
>160GB iPods have been around for a while. Surely if something is that 
>much physically bigger than an iPod it could be made with much more 
>storage space.
>
>The Sooloos thing looks a good system, but I wouldn't be happy to invest 
>in a machine that didn't let me import my own CDs. (Am I reading that 
>right... you have to buy tailored 'packages' of music from them?) I 
>would want it to be rip-enabled.
>
>I must admit, I really thought that the type of machine I'm thinking of 
>would be far more common in the world of hi-fi, especially in the light 
>of the iPod phenomenon. Surely it can't be too difficult to design a 
>hi-fi sized box with a CD reader, at least 1TB of storage space, and 
>some sort of operating system similar to an iPod... can it? How come the 
>major players aren't churning them out at a rate of knots?

I've said it before and I'll say it again... XBMC is a mind blowing
music/media solution. Keep your lossless music files structured
however you like on your main computer and stream them to XBMC via
cable or wireless.

You can run XBMC on an old XBOX, under £30 used. Buy an RGB output
cable with optical out (£5), and connect to a Harmon Kardon HD970 CD
player/DAC (£170?) for "world class" audio quality. The XBOX even has
a CD drive which you can rip audio with to FTP back to your PC.

If the fan offends (now temp controlled so fairly quiet) XBMC has
being ported so you can run it on an Apple Mini (that version is now
called Plex) or a fanless PC. Not sure how stable these ports are now,
I haven't investigated as I'm happy with my XBOX.

These clips don't show much on the music side but you'll get the idea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGdihkA5FK4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMm4A0xzvqA







--
S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t

Meehan Mydog wrote:
> Okay, thanks everyone.
> 
> I think what I had in mind was something along the lines of the Arcam, 
> although I think that 400GB is a little bit mean when you consider that 
> 160GB iPods have been around for a while. Surely if something is that 
> much physically bigger than an iPod it could be made with much more 
> storage space.
> 
> The Sooloos thing looks a good system, but I wouldn't be happy to invest 
> in a machine that didn't let me import my own CDs. (Am I reading that 
> right... you have to buy tailored 'packages' of music from them?) I 
> would want it to be rip-enabled.
> 
> I must admit, I really thought that the type of machine I'm thinking of 
> would be far more common in the world of hi-fi, especially in the light 
> of the iPod phenomenon. Surely it can't be too difficult to design a 
> hi-fi sized box with a CD reader, at least 1TB of storage space, and 
> some sort of operating system similar to an iPod... can it? How come the 
> major players aren't churning them out at a rate of knots?
> 
> Regards,
> Meehan

Cambrdige do a music server with CD riping, and there's this:

http://www.3ga.org.uk/shop/

For me it was always a case of difficulty accessing music via the tiny 
displays, and I have a growing number of videos, so I use a Mac Mini 
connected to the TV and hifi. I find the software fine, although the 
alternatives mentioned also look good. The Mini just about perfect 
*except* for HD space (same with Brennan) - I can just about squeeze 
everything on to a recently installed 250GB (laptop) drive - I can but 
would prefer not to daisy chain USB drives. I'll face that hurdle when I 
come to it but I'm sold on the Mac thing so that'll limit my options. A 
mac Mini with a 1TB external HD would do you (if you can connect it to a 
display) and cost £500.

On the PC route a problem is noise. We've just has Dell Optiplexs 
installed at work and they seem very quiet, and can be had for not much 
more than a Mac Mini and have the advanatge of taking full size drives.

I suspect the Arcam stuff would meet your needs if they'd fit a larger 
HD, and Linn could certainly kit you out. I think hifi branded kit of 
this kind carries a bonkers price premium.

Rob

Don Pearce  writes:

> Meehan Mydog wrote:
> > Apologies if this has been raised before... this is my first visit to
> > the NG.
<snip>
> > which would have all the convenience of the iPod combined with the sound
> > quality of a genuine hi-fi unit.
> > Does one exist yet?
> > Regards,
> > Meehan
> >
> 
> My main wish for an iPod is that it should have no associated pc
> software - just appear as a hard drive, so I can do my own managing.
> 
Forget about iPods then.

But there are other makes that do exactly this. I have an iAudio U3
(Korean stuff, several years old) that works like any USB-stick as
far as the computer is concerned (Windows, Linux and quite possibly
MacOS). It plays mp3s, oggs and more.

--
Martin Schöön                              

                                   "Problems worthy of attack
                                    prove their worth by hitting back"
                                                            Piet Hein

"Meehan Mydog" <not@all> wrote in message 
news:6pKdnZ9B2tCDv03VnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@bt.com...
>
> I must admit, I really thought that the type of machine I'm thinking of 
> would be far more common in the world of hi-fi, especially in the light of 
> the iPod phenomenon. Surely it can't be too difficult to design a hi-fi 
> sized box with a CD reader, at least 1TB of storage space, and some sort 
> of operating system similar to an iPod... can it? How come the major 
> players aren't churning them out at a rate of knots?
>

I simply use Windows Media Player running on a PC; the SPDIF output from 
which is connected to a very high quality DAC, bought (new) as an unboxed 
PCB from some guy in Hong Kong for about £20 on ebay. As much storage as I 
like in the form of external hard drives. Files are either lossless wma 
ripped via WMP, or wav files ripped via nero, or recorded from analogue via 
CoolEdit.

Maybe a bit more hassle than those boxes that've been mentioned, but every 
bit as good as those in "HiFi" terms and, since I already have the PC, 
virtually FOC.

David.

Meehan Mydog wrote:

> Is there is a hi-fi unit sized machine available on the market yet which
> has the capacity to enable digital storage of  several hundred
> _uncompressed_ CDs? I think I'm talking in TBs here.
> 
> What I am thinking of would be a sort of non-portable 'grown-up' iPod,
> which would have all the convenience of the iPod combined with the sound
> quality of a genuine hi-fi unit.
> 
> Does one exist yet?
> 
> Regards,
> Meehan

Not too hard to make a PC based unit with a good sound card. 1TB of 
storage can cost less than $200 these days. You can rip to lossless 
formats like WAV. The main problem is the software but there are some 
options available.

Some people even reckon that the sound off a PC is better with less 
jitter than straight off a CD, personally I think that there are 
excellent opportunities to create jitter in the PC.

I am in the early days of designing a unit for myself using embedded 
processors and solid state storage together with a good quality DAC. The 
solid state storage will be in the form of a number of SD cards which 
can be replaced as the price comes down to increase the storage 
capacity. It is not intended to hold a complete collection but to be 
used in conjunction with a PC server holding the main collection and the 
files being downloaded for use. 32 Gigs of storage would hold about 40 
uncompressed CDs which would cover the majority of listening for most 
people, with a delay of a few seconds if a CD has to be called up from 
the server across the LAN, certainly a lot quicker that manually loading 
a CD.

Keith

Keith

Rob wrote:
> Don Pearce wrote:
>> Rob wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm not interested in genres, playlists etc. It is my music, and I 
>>>> know what I have. All I need is a simple, logical way to find it. A 
>>>> directory structure of my own devising is precisely that.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I've now lost track of my digital music - well over 1000 artists.
>>>
>>
>> Are there that many artists? The number I consider listening to 
>> doesn't exceed a few dozen, I think.
>>
> 
> Well, I'd imagine the number that count *themselves* as artists probably 
> runs into millions ;-)
> 
> I have quite a few compilations - the Stiff record set is probably 40 
> artists for example.
> 
>>> I find iTunes a good method of organising, lossless compression and a 
>>> Mac Mini a good way of storing/serving, and an iPod Touch a good way 
>>> of accessing. The Touch is also a good portable device, although 
>>> storage is limited.
>>>
>>> Rob
>>
>> I just have this thing about software that tries to take over control 
>> of me. I dislike it instantly. I did allow iTunes onto my machine 
>> once, but I don't think it even lasted the day before I had kicked it 
>> off again for being arrogant and rude. For example I have a few audio 
>> books in MP3 form, and it wouldn't let me put them in the audio books 
>> department - insisted they were unknown music. I won't put up with 
>> that kind of thing.
>>
> 
> Yes, it does have some highly irritating habits, and I've just had a 
> look and my audio books are podcasts apparently. But for listening to 
> music at the end of the day, about now in fact, I think it's great. I 
> can access anything by name in seconds. The latest update looks good, 
> and the Genius feature really does work (for me, so far, YMMV etc).

I don't find itunes as irritating as many people, although it does some 
interesting things when you exceed the capacity of your iPod. I haven't 
tried the "Genius" thing yet, it sounds a bit suss, a way to get you to 
buy more from their store.

I have had a Mk 1 Nano (it is still the coolest of them all) for a 
couple of years, it is great for long car journeys, run through the 
favourite playlists, and if they run out stick it on random play. That 
gives some interesting juxtapositions - Mozart bracketed between Pink 
Floyd and ACDC. I recently bought a Touch, just before the Mk2 came out 
:(, I see it as a completely different device, good for running apps and 
multi-media stuff like video podcasts and carrying photos around.

Keith

Meehan Mydog wrote:

> What I am thinking of would be a sort of non-portable 'grown-up' iPod,
> which would have all the convenience of the iPod combined with the sound
> quality of a genuine hi-fi unit.

www.slimdevices.com

Check out the Transporter. Get a NAS with SqueezeCenter (formerly 
SlimServer) on it. Rip everything to FLAC (lossless compression). Copy 
to NAS. Connect Transporter or Squeezebox to wired or wireless network. 
Enjoy.

No, devices like this tend not to have a built in hard drive. Better to 
get a NAS (or install SqueezeCenter on your PC) and store all the music 
centrally, no worries with syncing stuff then.

Although personally I wouldn't bother with FLAC... MP3 at VBR upwards of 
224kBit sounds pretty much indistinguishable from the original WAV when 
played through the same kit.

-- 
  Squirrel Solutions Ltd                             Tel: (01453) 845735
  http://www.squirrelsolutions.co.uk/                Fax: (01453) 843773

  Registered in England: 05877408

"Meehan Mydog" <not@all> wrote in message
news:GcWdnRx13YUdC1LVnZ2dnUVZ8s7inZ2d@bt.com

> Is there is a hi-fi unit

The better portable players are essentially the same quality as a CD player, 
if they are not playing uncompressed audio or audio that is compressed, but 
not lossy-compresssed. IOW, if you avoid the potentially innocuous sound 
quality losses in MP3 or other modern lossy compression schemes, there is 
simply no possible loss of sound quality.

Moderate compression using modern techniques still give you benefits on the 
order 8:1, or more with no reliably perceptible loss.  MP3, WMA,  and MP4 
files have a bad name because many people have turned the compression way 
up, which need not be done. Discursion is still the better part of valor! 
;-)

>  sized machine available on the
> market yet which has the capacity to enable digital
> storage of  several hundred _uncompressed_ CDs?

If you're talking pop CDs, the average CD has about 400 megabytes of audio 
on it, or less.

Lossless compression, which most portable players support one way or the 
other, will reduce that to about 200 megabytes. Lossless compression has 
zero audible impact no matter how you look at it, because the data that goes 
into the digital-to-analog converters in the player is the same.

200 CDs @ 200 megabytes each = 40 Gigabytes. Totally uncompressed that's 
still just 80 gigabytes. Even the original iPod supports uncompressed audio 
files (WAV or AIFF).

I was working on a job site lately and noticed that one of my co-workers was 
carrying an 80 GB iPod.

So, your basic requirement of "several hundred _uncompressed_ CDs" is not 
out of reach.

> I think I'm talking in TBs here.

No.

"Arny Krueger"  wrote in message
news:5ZmdnVqme7us1E_VnZ2dnUVZ_ojinZ2d@comcast.com
> "Meehan Mydog" <not@all> wrote in message
> news:GcWdnRx13YUdC1LVnZ2dnUVZ8s7inZ2d@bt.com
>
>> Is there is a hi-fi unit

> The better portable players are essentially the same
> quality as a CD player, if they are not playing
> uncompressed audio or audio that is compressed, but not
> lossy-compressed.

Correction:

> The better portable players are essentially the same
> quality as a CD player, if they are  playing
> uncompressed audio or audio that is compressed, but not
> lossy-compressed.

"Glenn Richards"  wrote in message 
news:h9WdnTaykol-i0_VnZ2dnUVZ8sDinZ2d@eclipse.net.uk...
> Meehan Mydog wrote:
>
>> What I am thinking of would be a sort of non-portable 'grown-up' iPod,
>> which would have all the convenience of the iPod combined with the sound
>> quality of a genuine hi-fi unit.
>
> www.slimdevices.com
>
> Check out the Transporter.

Indeed, check out the price - $2000!

When I see something overpriced my usual remark is "cheap at half the 
price", but this one would still be expensive at half the price.

David.

In article , Arny Krueger
 scribeth thus
>"Meehan Mydog" <not@all> wrote in message
>news:GcWdnRx13YUdC1LVnZ2dnUVZ8s7inZ2d@bt.com
>
>> Is there is a hi-fi unit
>
>The better portable players are essentially the same quality as a CD player, 
>if they are not playing uncompressed audio or audio that is compressed, but 
>not lossy-compresssed. IOW, if you avoid the potentially innocuous sound 
>quality losses in MP3 or other modern lossy compression schemes, there is 
>simply no possible loss of sound quality.
>
>Moderate compression using modern techniques still give you benefits on the 
>order 8:1, or more with no reliably perceptible loss.  MP3, WMA,  and MP4 
>files have a bad name because many people have turned the compression way 
>up, which need not be done. Discursion is still the better part of valor! 
>;-)
>
>>  sized machine available on the
>> market yet which has the capacity to enable digital
>> storage of  several hundred _uncompressed_ CDs?
>
>If you're talking pop CDs, the average CD has about 400 megabytes of audio 
>on it, or less.
>
>Lossless compression, which most portable players support one way or the 
>other, will reduce that to about 200 megabytes. Lossless compression has 
>zero audible impact no matter how you look at it, because the data that goes 
>into the digital-to-analog converters in the player is the same.
>
>200 CDs @ 200 megabytes each = 40 Gigabytes. Totally uncompressed that's 
>still just 80 gigabytes. Even the original iPod supports uncompressed audio 
>files (WAV or AIFF).
>
>I was working on a job site lately and noticed that one of my co-workers was 
>carrying an 80 GB iPod.
>
>So, your basic requirement of "several hundred _uncompressed_ CDs" is not 
>out of reach.
>
>> I think I'm talking in TBs here.
>
>No.
>
>
And if you do commit All the precious audio make sure its on some sort
of RAID arrangement or backed up on another disk somewhere...

Lost a lot of nice old Prom concerts when a Seagate disk went tits up
the other day,..

Seagate!, I ask you, supposed to be the dogs wotsits!...
-- 
Tony Sayer

So how do you all cope with tracks that run into each other?
Do you just put up with a moment of silence followed by a click,
do you audit each album and manually copy the sets of continuous tracks,
or copy the whole album as a single file? The last is preferable for
serious listeners who wouldn't dream of listening to less than a whole
album in one session.

-- 
Eiron.

"tony sayer"  wrote in message
news:6mddXECfko0IFw$d@bancom.co.uk

> Seagate!, I ask you, supposed to be the dogs wotsits!...

IME, all brands of drives can break.

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "tony sayer"  wrote in message
> news:6mddXECfko0IFw$d@bancom.co.uk
> 
> 
>>Seagate!, I ask you, supposed to be the dogs wotsits!...
> 
> 
> IME, all brands of drives can break. 
> 
> 


On a similar line, can someone suggest a cheap PC sound card with 
digital out, don't care if its optical or not.

-- 
Nick

"Nick Gorham"  wrote in message 
news:0344969d$0$11426$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...

>
> On a similar line, can someone suggest a cheap PC sound card with digital 
> out, don't care if its optical or not.
>

Apollo PCI 5.1 Sound Card, £19.99 from Maplin (code A65BK). It has co-ax and 
optical SPDIF in and out.

Or if you prefer an external USB connected device there is the little £17.99 
also from Maplin (A56AK) which has optical SPDIF and stereo analogue outputs 
(no inputs).

I've had no problems with either.

David.