I guess we take continuous power for granted in the UK, and perhaps we 
shouldn't. My part of North London lost power from 10pm until 11pm last 
night.

I've several tanks of fish and I wasn't unduly worried as the central 
heating worked ok (once I took it off the timer), and I had confidence 
it wasn't going to be off for hours.

But despite my tanks not being over stocked I noticed the poor old 
Platys looked very unhappy after an hour without the filters going. The 
Silver sharks for some reason started trying to jump out of the tank 
once the filters started up again. I had to put a book on the tank lid ! 
I'm assuming they didn't like the water quality :-)  But after a few 
minutes they seemed ok.

Is there a commercially available Uninteruptable Power Supply (UPS) for 
the home aquarium ? I would imagine it wouldn't take much to keep the 
filters going for an hour or so.


-- 
Edward Cowling London UK

Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
> I guess we take continuous power for granted in the UK, and perhaps we 
> shouldn't. My part of North London lost power from 10pm until 11pm last 
> night.
> 
> I've several tanks of fish and I wasn't unduly worried as the central 
> heating worked ok (once I took it off the timer), and I had confidence 
> it wasn't going to be off for hours.
> 
> But despite my tanks not being over stocked I noticed the poor old 
> Platys looked very unhappy after an hour without the filters going. The 
> Silver sharks for some reason started trying to jump out of the tank 
> once the filters started up again. I had to put a book on the tank lid ! 
> I'm assuming they didn't like the water quality :-)  But after a few 
> minutes they seemed ok.
> 
> Is there a commercially available Uninteruptable Power Supply (UPS) for 
> the home aquarium ? I would imagine it wouldn't take much to keep the 
> filters going for an hour or so.
> 
> 

I would guess any UPS would work, you can buy cheap second hand ones, 
which have been used in computer server rooms, I'm not sure where I last 
saw them though.

§tudz

§tudz wrote:
> Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
>> I guess we take continuous power for granted in the UK, and perhaps
>> we shouldn't. My part of North London lost power from 10pm until
>> 11pm last night.
>>
>> I've several tanks of fish and I wasn't unduly worried as the central
>> heating worked ok (once I took it off the timer), and I had
>> confidence it wasn't going to be off for hours.
>>
>> But despite my tanks not being over stocked I noticed the poor old
>> Platys looked very unhappy after an hour without the filters going.
>> The Silver sharks for some reason started trying to jump out of the
>> tank once the filters started up again. I had to put a book on the
>> tank lid ! I'm assuming they didn't like the water quality :-)  But
>> after a few minutes they seemed ok.
>>
>> Is there a commercially available Uninteruptable Power Supply (UPS)
>> for the home aquarium ? I would imagine it wouldn't take much to
>> keep the filters going for an hour or so.
>>
>>
>
> I would guess any UPS would work, you can buy cheap second hand ones,
> which have been used in computer server rooms, I'm not sure where I
> last saw them though.
>
> §tudz

Be careful if you invest in a 2nd-hand, ex-commercial UPS. The batteries on 
them are like any other rechargeables  - they lose the capacity to store 
charge after a while and that's the reason they're no longer wanted by their 
owners.

A well-used UPS claiming it has a full battery charge may, in fact, run out 
of power after just a few minutes. And they ain't cheap to replace either, 
e.g. £120+ for an APC Smart-UPS 1400 battery replacement against £300+ for a 
new UPS of a similar capacity. Ok, this model is a bit beefier than you 
would need, but you get my drift. Having said that, one of these, fully 
charged, would easily run a few tanks for several hours, so it may we be 
worth the investment if you tot-up the cost (and hassle) of replacing the 
contents of your tanks.

Paul

"PABBY" <AsIfIWould> wrote in message 
news:43f484be$0$23281$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk...
> §tudz wrote:
>> Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
>>> I guess we take continuous power for granted in the UK, and perhaps
>>> we shouldn't. My part of North London lost power from 10pm until
>>> 11pm last night.
>>>
>>> I've several tanks of fish and I wasn't unduly worried as the central
>>> heating worked ok (once I took it off the timer), and I had
>>> confidence it wasn't going to be off for hours.
>>>
>>> But despite my tanks not being over stocked I noticed the poor old
>>> Platys looked very unhappy after an hour without the filters going.
>>> The Silver sharks for some reason started trying to jump out of the
>>> tank once the filters started up again. I had to put a book on the
>>> tank lid ! I'm assuming they didn't like the water quality :-)  But
>>> after a few minutes they seemed ok.
>>>
>>> Is there a commercially available Uninteruptable Power Supply (UPS)
>>> for the home aquarium ? I would imagine it wouldn't take much to
>>> keep the filters going for an hour or so.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I would guess any UPS would work, you can buy cheap second hand ones,
>> which have been used in computer server rooms, I'm not sure where I
>> last saw them though.
>>
>> §tudz
>
> Be careful if you invest in a 2nd-hand, ex-commercial UPS. The batteries 
> on them are like any other rechargeables  - they lose the capacity to 
> store charge after a while and that's the reason they're no longer wanted 
> by their owners.
>
> A well-used UPS claiming it has a full battery charge may, in fact, run 
> out of power after just a few minutes. And they ain't cheap to replace 
> either, e.g. £120+ for an APC Smart-UPS 1400 battery replacement against 
> £300+ for a new UPS of a similar capacity. Ok, this model is a bit beefier 
> than you would need, but you get my drift. Having said that, one of these, 
> fully charged, would easily run a few tanks for several hours, so it may 
> we be worth the investment if you tot-up the cost (and hassle) of 
> replacing the contents of your tanks.
>
> Paul
>
>
the only problem with most computer type ups's they are not designed to run 
for hours just long enough to cleanly shut down the computer
check below these are designed for home use running TV's
http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=BI800I
not sure if these are available to the UK

"Edward Cowling London UK"  wrote in message 
news:SKAjXUFjOG9DFw8w@genghis0.demon.co.uk...
>I guess we take continuous power for granted in the UK, and perhaps we 
>shouldn't. My part of North London lost power from 10pm until 11pm last 
>night.
>
> I've several tanks of fish and I wasn't unduly worried as the central 
> heating worked ok (once I took it off the timer), and I had confidence it 
> wasn't going to be off for hours.
>
> But despite my tanks not being over stocked I noticed the poor old Platys 
> looked very unhappy after an hour without the filters going. The Silver 
> sharks for some reason started trying to jump out of the tank once the 
> filters started up again. I had to put a book on the tank lid ! I'm 
> assuming they didn't like the water quality :-)  But after a few minutes 
> they seemed ok.
>
> Is there a commercially available Uninteruptable Power Supply (UPS) for 
> the home aquarium ? I would imagine it wouldn't take much to keep the 
> filters going for an hour or so.
>
>
> -- 
> Edward Cowling London UK

Hello Edward,

This bit of North London was fine, but we often get power cuts....I blame it 
on all the road digging due to the sewer repairs all over London....Clancy 
Docwra!!

I have had no problems with a couple of hours or so....and I confess to a 
tendency to overstock.
Not sure if the temperature would drop much in an hour, but I suppose it is 
a risk.

It is OK if you are at home as you could always do a partial water change 
....problem when you don't know about it!
Drives me mad...everything seems dependant on timers and clocks, even the 
cooker!

Hope the fish are OK now

Julie

Mr Fixit wrote:
> "PABBY" <AsIfIWould> wrote in message
> news:43f484be$0$23281$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk...
>> §tudz wrote:
>>> Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
>>>> I guess we take continuous power for granted in the UK, and perhaps
>>>> we shouldn't. My part of North London lost power from 10pm until
>>>> 11pm last night.
>>>>
>>>> I've several tanks of fish and I wasn't unduly worried as the
>>>> central heating worked ok (once I took it off the timer), and I had
>>>> confidence it wasn't going to be off for hours.
>>>>
>>>> But despite my tanks not being over stocked I noticed the poor old
>>>> Platys looked very unhappy after an hour without the filters going.
>>>> The Silver sharks for some reason started trying to jump out of the
>>>> tank once the filters started up again. I had to put a book on the
>>>> tank lid ! I'm assuming they didn't like the water quality :-)  But
>>>> after a few minutes they seemed ok.
>>>>
>>>> Is there a commercially available Uninteruptable Power Supply (UPS)
>>>> for the home aquarium ? I would imagine it wouldn't take much to
>>>> keep the filters going for an hour or so.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I would guess any UPS would work, you can buy cheap second hand
>>> ones, which have been used in computer server rooms, I'm not sure
>>> where I last saw them though.
>>>
>>> §tudz
>>
>> Be careful if you invest in a 2nd-hand, ex-commercial UPS. The
>> batteries on them are like any other rechargeables  - they lose the
>> capacity to store charge after a while and that's the reason they're
>> no longer wanted by their owners.
>>
>> A well-used UPS claiming it has a full battery charge may, in fact,
>> run out of power after just a few minutes. And they ain't cheap to
>> replace either, e.g. £120+ for an APC Smart-UPS 1400 battery
>> replacement against £300+ for a new UPS of a similar capacity. Ok,
>> this model is a bit beefier than you would need, but you get my
>> drift. Having said that, one of these, fully charged, would easily
>> run a few tanks for several hours, so it may we be worth the
>> investment if you tot-up the cost (and hassle) of replacing the
>> contents of your tanks. Paul
>>
>>
> the only problem with most computer type ups's they are not designed
> to run for hours just long enough to cleanly shut down the computer
> check below these are designed for home use running TV's
> http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=BI800I
> not sure if these are available to the UK

[/geek mode on]

A computer UPS is usually controlled by either software on the host computer 
or, in the case of models from the last few years, on-board software 
controlled via http or telnet. Unless a calibration of the UPS has been 
performed, then the default time is generally only a few minutes of uptime 
when on battery. The consequence of running a calibration is to find out 
exactly how long the UPS can support all its connected devices on battery 
whilst retaining a battery charge of approximately one third capacity. Once 
the calibration has been performed, it is then normal to reconfigure the 
software with the actual time the UPS can support its devices in the event 
of a power failure. A UPS controlled by external software will almost 
certainly stay on-line until its batteries are exhausted.

[/geek mode off]

Paul

"PABBY" <AsIfIWould> wrote in message 
news:43f4b5a1$0$29563$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk...
> Mr Fixit wrote:
>> "PABBY" <AsIfIWould> wrote in message
>> news:43f484be$0$23281$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk...
>>> §tudz wrote:
>>>> Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
>>>>> I guess we take continuous power for granted in the UK, and perhaps
>>>>> we shouldn't. My part of North London lost power from 10pm until
>>>>> 11pm last night.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've several tanks of fish and I wasn't unduly worried as the
>>>>> central heating worked ok (once I took it off the timer), and I had
>>>>> confidence it wasn't going to be off for hours.
>>>>>
>>>>> But despite my tanks not being over stocked I noticed the poor old
>>>>> Platys looked very unhappy after an hour without the filters going.
>>>>> The Silver sharks for some reason started trying to jump out of the
>>>>> tank once the filters started up again. I had to put a book on the
>>>>> tank lid ! I'm assuming they didn't like the water quality :-)  But
>>>>> after a few minutes they seemed ok.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there a commercially available Uninteruptable Power Supply (UPS)
>>>>> for the home aquarium ? I would imagine it wouldn't take much to
>>>>> keep the filters going for an hour or so.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I would guess any UPS would work, you can buy cheap second hand
>>>> ones, which have been used in computer server rooms, I'm not sure
>>>> where I last saw them though.
>>>>
>>>> §tudz
>>>
>>> Be careful if you invest in a 2nd-hand, ex-commercial UPS. The
>>> batteries on them are like any other rechargeables  - they lose the
>>> capacity to store charge after a while and that's the reason they're
>>> no longer wanted by their owners.
>>>
>>> A well-used UPS claiming it has a full battery charge may, in fact,
>>> run out of power after just a few minutes. And they ain't cheap to
>>> replace either, e.g. £120+ for an APC Smart-UPS 1400 battery
>>> replacement against £300+ for a new UPS of a similar capacity. Ok,
>>> this model is a bit beefier than you would need, but you get my
>>> drift. Having said that, one of these, fully charged, would easily
>>> run a few tanks for several hours, so it may we be worth the
>>> investment if you tot-up the cost (and hassle) of replacing the
>>> contents of your tanks. Paul
>>>
>>>
>> the only problem with most computer type ups's they are not designed
>> to run for hours just long enough to cleanly shut down the computer
>> check below these are designed for home use running TV's
>> http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=BI800I
>> not sure if these are available to the UK
>
> [/geek mode on]
>
> A computer UPS is usually controlled by either software on the host 
> computer or, in the case of models from the last few years, on-board 
> software controlled via http or telnet. Unless a calibration of the UPS 
> has been performed, then the default time is generally only a few minutes 
> of uptime when on battery. The consequence of running a calibration is to 
> find out exactly how long the UPS can support all its connected devices on 
> battery whilst retaining a battery charge of approximately one third 
> capacity. Once the calibration has been performed, it is then normal to 
> reconfigure the software with the actual time the UPS can support its 
> devices in the event of a power failure. A UPS controlled by external 
> software will almost certainly stay on-line until its batteries are 
> exhausted.
>
> [/geek mode off]
>
> Paul
>
>
they still wont last hours, the small ups's perform so many other functions 
a fish tank does not need  a more simple inverter type is all you need

On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 11:36:03 +0000, Edward Cowling London UK
 wrote:

>Is there a commercially available Uninteruptable Power Supply (UPS) for 
>the home aquarium ? I would imagine it wouldn't take much to keep the 
>filters going for an hour or so.

Forget PC UPS. They only work for a few minutes while the PC shuts
down.

It's the water aeration that may be a problem. What about a battery
air pump? They were quite common but I haven't needed one for about 30
years.

-- 
Steve Wolstenholme     Neural Planner Software

EasyNN-plus. The easy way to build neural networks.
http://www.easynn.com

In message <43f484be$0$23281$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>, PABBY 
<AsIfIWould@?.?.invalid> writes
>
>e.g. £120+ for an APC Smart-UPS 1400 battery replacement against £300+ for a
>new UPS of a similar capacity. Ok, this model is a bit beefier than you
>would need, but you get my drift. Having said that, one of these, fully
>charged, would easily run a few tanks for several hours, so it may we be
>worth the investment if you tot-up the cost (and hassle) of replacing the
>contents of your tanks.
>

It does seem a bit daft to make sure I have spares of everything and 
then a power outage threatens my fish. I'll have a nice talk to our 
systems guy at work and see if he can gets discounts on these things :-)


-- 
Edward Cowling London UK

In message , 
steve@tropheus.demon.co.uk writes
>
>It's the water aeration that may be a problem. What about a battery
>air pump? They were quite common but I haven't needed one for about 30
>years.
>

I tend to agree that it's circulation of the water that's needed, rather 
than running the filters. I was thinking of either battery powered air 
stones, or maybe those battery powered gravel cleaners.... perhaps rig 
one or two up to a XXXL size battery. I'm sure they would circulate the 
water enough to keep the dissolved gases about right.

-- 
Edward Cowling London UK

In message <dt27u0$c32$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, Julie 
Meikle  writes
>
>It is OK if you are at home as you could always do a partial water change
>...problem when you don't know about it!
>Drives me mad...everything seems dependant on timers and clocks, even the
>cooker!

I just had a "must get spares" session on ebay making sure I had at 
least one spare powerhead, lighting tube, heater, etc for each tank. 
Then the lights go out :-)  I had a large tub of water ageing for a 
change, so I gave them a 20% change tonight.

>
>Hope the fish are OK now
>

Yes, some are years old, and I swear they can look glum if they don't 
like the water. Mind you trying to escape the tank is a bit of a 
giveaway :-)


-- 
Edward Cowling London UK

"Edward Cowling London UK"  wrote in message 
news:SKAjXUFjOG9DFw8w@genghis0.demon.co.uk...
>I guess we take continuous power for granted in the UK, and perhaps we 
>shouldn't. My part of North London lost power from 10pm until 11pm last 
>night.

Not where I live.  A month of uninterrupted power takes notice (I'm in the 
country).

> I've several tanks of fish and I wasn't unduly worried as the central 
> heating worked ok (once I took it off the timer), and I had confidence it 
> wasn't going to be off for hours.
>
> But despite my tanks not being over stocked I noticed the poor old Platys 
> looked very unhappy after an hour without the filters going. The Silver 
> sharks for some reason started trying to jump out of the tank once the 
> filters started up again. I had to put a book on the tank lid ! I'm 
> assuming they didn't like the water quality :-)  But after a few minutes 
> they seemed ok.

Either they were deafened and startled by the noise of the filters, or there 
was some anaerobic action going on, fouling the water (sulphide gases).  It 
can be quite toxic to fish, but with good circulation, dissipates quickly.

> Is there a commercially available Uninteruptable Power Supply (UPS) for 
> the home aquarium ? I would imagine it wouldn't take much to keep the 
> filters going for an hour or so.

Two issues.  The waveform from these UPSs are generally sloppy (trapezoidal 
as opposed to the sinusoidal waveform from the town's transformers).  This 
makes little difference to a computer, as the AC is converted into a half 
dozen different DC voltages, but the magnetic impellers commonly used in HOB 
and canister filters are very simple devices, which don't care for messy AC 
waveforms.  The result is that they will generally run warm or hot and need 
to be watched.  The other problem is longevity.  UPSs are sometimes designed 
to only give you enough time to save your work, but aquarium filters don't 
take a lot of power either (ie: 10-20 watts).  Check the ratings carefully.

During a power failure, you first have 2 issues (re-oxygenation and your 
bacteria culture dying).  Depending on your fish-load and filter type, 
neither will happen immediately, and may not occur at all (sponge filters 
suffer a lot less than canister filters).  The next problem is heating 
(depending on your locale, it might even be cooling, but not in the UK ;~).

One solution which addresses the bacteria, the water circulation 
(re-oxygenation) and the UPS waveform, is to connect a DC battery (marine, 
motorcycle, car) directly to a DC powerhead (also known as a bilge pump, 
available at marinas) which is plumbed in-line with your canister filter (or 
could be plumbed to a sponge filter, or replace an AC powerhead).  Because 
you no longer have the DC to AC conversion, or the low voltage cut off, you 
will actually get a much longer operating time in this set-up.  The drawback 
is you have to connect this battery to the pump (messy lead acid battery), 
though you could make a little circuit to have it permanently connected with 
an AC relay which is held open by house AC (closes on a power failure), and 
keep the whole thing on a little battery charger all set to go on.  Bilge 
pumps are not expensive (cheaper than a UPS), but some plumbing might be 
needed to adapt them to your application (sponge filters are easy, online 
canisters will vary).

cheers
-- 
www.NetMax.tk

> -- 
> Edward Cowling London UK

Hi..

> But despite my tanks not being over stocked I noticed the
> poor old Platys looked very unhappy after an hour without
> the filters going.

Don't worry! If your tanks aren't over stocked and your
filter isn't still filled with mud you won't get any
trouble.

I've several tanks and temporary (summer) ponds without any
technical filter system that work well. 

-- 
cu
Marco, low load fish keeper.. :-)

In message <43f4b5a1$0$29563$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk>
          "PABBY" <AsIfIWould> wrote:

> Mr Fixit wrote:
> > "PABBY" <AsIfIWould> wrote in message
> > news:43f484be$0$23281$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk...
> >> §tudz wrote:
> >>> Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
> >>>> I guess we take continuous power for granted in the UK, and perhaps
> >>>> we shouldn't. My part of North London lost power from 10pm until
> >>>> 11pm last night.
> >>>>
> >>>> I've several tanks of fish and I wasn't unduly worried as the
> >>>> central heating worked ok (once I took it off the timer), and I had
> >>>> confidence it wasn't going to be off for hours.
> >>>>
> >>>> But despite my tanks not being over stocked I noticed the poor old
> >>>> Platys looked very unhappy after an hour without the filters going.
> >>>> The Silver sharks for some reason started trying to jump out of the
> >>>> tank once the filters started up again. I had to put a book on the
> >>>> tank lid ! I'm assuming they didn't like the water quality :-)  But
> >>>> after a few minutes they seemed ok.
> >>>>
> >>>> Is there a commercially available Uninteruptable Power Supply (UPS)
> >>>> for the home aquarium ? I would imagine it wouldn't take much to
> >>>> keep the filters going for an hour or so.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> I would guess any UPS would work, you can buy cheap second hand
> >>> ones, which have been used in computer server rooms, I'm not sure
> >>> where I last saw them though.
> >>>
> >>> §tudz
> >>
> >> Be careful if you invest in a 2nd-hand, ex-commercial UPS. The
> >> batteries on them are like any other rechargeables  - they lose the
> >> capacity to store charge after a while and that's the reason they're
> >> no longer wanted by their owners.
> >>
> >> A well-used UPS claiming it has a full battery charge may, in fact,
> >> run out of power after just a few minutes. And they ain't cheap to
> >> replace either, e.g. £120+ for an APC Smart-UPS 1400 battery
> >> replacement against £300+ for a new UPS of a similar capacity. Ok,
> >> this model is a bit beefier than you would need, but you get my
> >> drift. Having said that, one of these, fully charged, would easily
> >> run a few tanks for several hours, so it may we be worth the
> >> investment if you tot-up the cost (and hassle) of replacing the
> >> contents of your tanks. Paul
> >>
> >>
> > the only problem with most computer type ups's they are not designed
> > to run for hours just long enough to cleanly shut down the computer
> > check below these are designed for home use running TV's
> > http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=BI800I
> > not sure if these are available to the UK
> 
> [/geek mode on]
> 
> A computer UPS is usually controlled by either software on the host computer 
> or, in the case of models from the last few years, on-board software 
> controlled via http or telnet. Unless a calibration of the UPS has been 
> performed, then the default time is generally only a few minutes of uptime 
> when on battery. The consequence of running a calibration is to find out 
> exactly how long the UPS can support all its connected devices on battery 
> whilst retaining a battery charge of approximately one third capacity. Once 
> the calibration has been performed, it is then normal to reconfigure the 
> software with the actual time the UPS can support its devices in the event 
> of a power failure. A UPS controlled by external software will almost 
> certainly stay on-line until its batteries are exhausted.
> 
> [/geek mode off]

I habe a couple of UPS for my computers and they are fairly dumb, they
just send a signal to the PC to do a shutdown when they detect a power
out and then run till the battery drains and given the load from a
filter is going to be less than a PC (unless you're talking large
tanks) then a dumb UPS should last for a bit, but probablnot good
enough for any kind of major putage.

Also (I'm not an electrician, so could be totally wrong), a lot of
(sertainly cheaper) PC UPS generate a stepped square wave output,
rather rhan the sinusoidal wave you would get from the mains, which may
not be ideal for driving motors i.e. filters.

What I tought about doing was getting one of those samll portable
generators, then getting my PC to txt my mobile if it gets a
signal from the UPS, allowing me to hot foot it home and fire up the
generator.

Mike.


--