Has anyone experience of importing a shotgun currently held abroad on
a foreign certificate?


Kam

Hello.

I'm currently using a Weihrauch HW77 with scope for pest control inside 
an old aircraft hanger used for car storage.

Pest control (pidgeons) is a necessity as it is not possible to secure 
the building against ingress and their droppings are affecting the 
vehicles paintwork.

Currently I'm hitting everything I shoot at, the problem is I'm not 
killing first shot. This is personnally distressing, if it wasn't a 
necessity I could quite happily ignore their presence.

Is their any particular type of pellet I should be using for a 1 hit 
instant kill or is an air rifle just not up to the job?

I've considered upgradeing to a .22 rimfire but I don't feel this is the 
answer, a shotgun is out of the question as I'm mainly shooting into the 
roofspace at very short range.

Many thanks for any qualified & informed responses.

In article <462f2012$0$8754$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>, 
me@home (Chas) wrote:

> Is their any particular type of pellet I should be using for a 1 hit 
> instant kill or is an air rifle just not up to the job?

A one hit kill with a pigeon will need a head shot every time I would 
say. In which case the pellet is of small consequence IMO. Even a 12b 
shotgun is not a guarantee of a kill.
> 
> I've considered upgradeing to a .22 rimfire but I don't feel this is 
> the answer, a shotgun is out of the question as I'm mainly shooting 
> into the roofspace at very short range.

You can get .22 shotshells, but they would be no use. You can get 
very-subsonic .22 shells to give a performance similiar to a 24-30ft/lb 
air rifle. They are overpriced in my experience and you are better off 
with a good air rifle. Possibly a FAC precharge would be better suited 
for your needs?



Steve Rawlings

Hello Chas,

An air rifle is well up to the job of killing pigeons, personally I shoot
for their head. The breast of the pigeon is thick meat and will slow a
pellet down a fair bit. The vital organs are in the top third of the pigeons
body. Estimate the range you take most shots at and then zero your sights to
that range that way at least you can be confident that you're hitting the
spot you're shooting for or very close to it. You may also find that the
birds nerves are causing some movement after it has been shot.

Hope this helps
Regards
Dave (www.kwacs.org.uk)



"Chas" <me@home> wrote in message 
news:462f2012$0$8754$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
> Hello.
>
> I'm currently using a Weihrauch HW77 with scope for pest control inside an 
> old aircraft hanger used for car storage.
>
> Pest control (pidgeons) is a necessity as it is not possible to secure the 
> building against ingress and their droppings are affecting the vehicles 
> paintwork.
>
> Currently I'm hitting everything I shoot at, the problem is I'm not 
> killing first shot. This is personnally distressing, if it wasn't a 
> necessity I could quite happily ignore their presence.
>
> Is their any particular type of pellet I should be using for a 1 hit 
> instant kill or is an air rifle just not up to the job?
>
> I've considered upgradeing to a .22 rimfire but I don't feel this is the 
> answer, a shotgun is out of the question as I'm mainly shooting into the 
> roofspace at very short range.
>
> Many thanks for any qualified & informed responses.

In message <462f2012$0$8754$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>, Chas 
<me@home.?.invalid> writes
>Hello.
>
>I'm currently using a Weihrauch HW77 with scope for pest control inside 
>an old aircraft hanger used for car storage.
>
>Pest control (pidgeons) is a necessity as it is not possible to secure 
>the building against ingress and their droppings are affecting the 
>vehicles paintwork.
>
>Currently I'm hitting everything I shoot at, the problem is I'm not 
>killing first shot. This is personnally distressing, if it wasn't a 
>necessity I could quite happily ignore their presence.

Where are you hitting them?  If you aim just behind the fold of the 
wing, you'll put the pellet directly into the heart/lung area, and/or 
hit the 'elbow' to bring them down.  Finishing them off by hand is quick 
and easy.  You won't get instantaneous kills with an air rifle, but 
doing the above will result in swift death which is acceptable IMO.

>Is their any particular type of pellet I should be using for a 1 hit 
>instant kill or is an air rifle just not up to the job?

Any decent pellet will do, whatever delivers the best accuracy.  Air gun 
pellets are much of a muchness with respect to wound channels etc.

>I've considered upgradeing to a .22 rimfire but I don't feel this is 
>the answer, a shotgun is out of the question as I'm mainly shooting 
>into the roofspace at very short range.

A .22 rimfire will rip through the pigeon and punch holes in your roof. 
You don't want that, I imagine.  Stick with what you've got.


-- 
Jonathan

"Life is tough - even tougher if you're stupid."
John Wayne

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:32:13 +0100, Chas <me@home> wrote:

>Hello.
>
>I'm currently using a Weihrauch HW77 with scope for pest control inside 
>an old aircraft hanger used for car storage.
>
If it's in good nick an HW77 should be up to the job, especially with
head shots.

>Pest control (pidgeons) is a necessity as it is not possible to secure 
>the building against ingress and their droppings are affecting the 
>vehicles paintwork.
>

Is it not possible to reduce the ingress to some extent, even if you
can't stop it entirely?.  Wire mesh stuffed into the more obvious
opening if you can reach them.

>Currently I'm hitting everything I shoot at, the problem is I'm not 
>killing first shot. This is personnally distressing, if it wasn't a 
>necessity I could quite happily ignore their presence.

As someone else has pointed out pigeons will often continue to flap
long after they are technically dead.  If wringing their necks to make
sure makes you feel uncomfortable then carry a short but solid stick
like a fisherman's 'Priest' to administer the last rites with a whack
on the head.  A one foot length of one inch dowelling is more than
adequate. Not everyone is a 'hands-on' killer.
>
>I've considered upgradeing to a .22 rimfire but I don't feel this is the 
>answer, a shotgun is out of the question as I'm mainly shooting into the 
>roofspace at very short range.
>
Approaching this from a different angle now...  It's been a long time
since I stood in an aircraft hangar, but if memory serves they are
generally a lot bigger than people think.  So, although you are
hitting the birds they may well be beyond 'clean kill' range...
Personally I think anything above twenty yards is pushing it a bit for
an ordinary spring air rifle.  Ten is better if you can get close
enough.

Ten yards is only thirty feet - which ain't much at all - in the
cavernous space of a hangar.

Gyppo

Thanks to all for your responses.

I'm in the process of applying for a licence from DEFRA, I never knew 
you needed one, sorry !

To clarify, it's an old WWII hanger and approx 10m to eaves with A LOT 
of steel up in the roof, not a modern high 'shed' type construction. 
It's not possible to fully secure against ingress as 1 of the HUGE doors 
is permanently open, plus it is a ventilated roof construction, water 
tight but definately not pidgeon tight.

I'm hitting everything I shoot at, It's been 20 yrs since I last picked 
up a gun but I haven't lost it. If 20yr old training still counts, then 
I have been trained to a very high standard in gun craft.

Hmmm, said it myself, I'll sign up to a refresher . . .

The majority of the pidgeons are definately surviving the first shot, 
they'll fly to another perch where they often remain till we get the 
ladders out. I carry a Priest Stick but find it unnecessary if they've 
actually dropped to the floor. I'm going for chest shots because 
usually, almost directly underneath the bird, that is what is presented.

"Chas" <me@home> wrote in message 
news:46308d4d$0$8756$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...

<snipped>
I'm going for chest shots because usually, almost directly underneath the 
bird, that is what is presented

Hello Chas,

If you have to go for the chest area aim about 2" to 2.1/2"  or so below the 
beak, the vital organs of the pigeon are well up into the chest cavity and 
not a very large target.

Regards
Dave (www.kwacs.org.uk)

In message <46308d4d$0$8756$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>, Chas 
<me@home.?.invalid> writes

>To clarify, it's an old WWII hanger and approx 10m to eaves with A LOT 
>of steel up in the roof, not a modern high 'shed' type construction. 
>It's not possible to fully secure against ingress as 1 of the HUGE 
>doors is permanently open, plus it is a ventilated roof construction, 
>water tight but definately not pidgeon tight.

>The majority of the pidgeons are definately surviving the first shot, 
>they'll fly to another perch where they often remain till we get the 
>ladders out. I carry a Priest Stick but find it unnecessary if they've 
>actually dropped to the floor. I'm going for chest shots because 
>usually, almost directly underneath the bird, that is what is presented.

Aim for just beneath the point where the neck joins the torso, that's 
where the vitals are.  If you're aiming directly into the centre of the 
breast, you're in the wrong place.  (Take a look where you're hitting 
them when you next kill one.)  Oh, and use pointed pellets if you can as 
they will part the feathers: round nosed and flat nosed pellets gather 
up a plug of feathers and that will reduce penetration.

You might find a 9mm garden gun (a small bore shotgun firing 1/4 ounce 
of shot) is useful, but they have very limited range as their name 
suggests.  Or as you initially suggested, a .22 rimfire in which case 
you would need to fire .22 Shorts or even CB caps to avoid damaging the 
hangar.

-- 
Jonathan

Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel.
Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928

On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 15:45:44 GMT, Jonathan Spencer
 wrote:

>In message <46308d4d$0$8756$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>, Chas 
><me@home.?.invalid> writes
>
>>To clarify, it's an old WWII hanger and approx 10m to eaves with A LOT 
>>of steel up in the roof, not a modern high 'shed' type construction. 
>>It's not possible to fully secure against ingress as 1 of the HUGE 
>>doors is permanently open, plus it is a ventilated roof construction, 
>>water tight but definately not pidgeon tight.
>
>>The majority of the pidgeons are definately surviving the first shot, 
>>they'll fly to another perch where they often remain till we get the 
>>ladders out. I carry a Priest Stick but find it unnecessary if they've 
>>actually dropped to the floor. I'm going for chest shots because 
>>usually, almost directly underneath the bird, that is what is presented.
>
>Aim for just beneath the point where the neck joins the torso, that's 
>where the vitals are.  If you're aiming directly into the centre of the 
>breast, you're in the wrong place.  (Take a look where you're hitting 
>them when you next kill one.)  Oh, and use pointed pellets if you can as 
>they will part the feathers: round nosed and flat nosed pellets gather 
>up a plug of feathers and that will reduce penetration.
>
>You might find a 9mm garden gun (a small bore shotgun firing 1/4 ounce 
>of shot) is useful, but they have very limited range as their name 
>suggests.  Or as you initially suggested, a .22 rimfire in which case 
>you would need to fire .22 Shorts or even CB caps to avoid damaging the 
>hangar.

Can you find .22 shorts anymore?

I used them until they seemed unobtainable. (Good old Labour
legistlation.... :-(  )

J.

In article <462f2012$0$8754$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>, 
me@home (Chas) wrote:

> Is their any particular type of pellet I should be using for a 1 hit 
> instant kill or is an air rifle just not up to the job?

A one hit kill with a pigeon will need a head shot every time I would 
say. In which case the pellet is of small consequence IMO. Even a 12b 
shotgun is not a guarantee of a kill.
> 
> I've considered upgradeing to a .22 rimfire but I don't feel this is 
> the answer, a shotgun is out of the question as I'm mainly shooting 
> into the roofspace at very short range.

You can get .22 shotshells, but they would be no use. You can get 
very-subsonic .22 shells to give a performance similiar to a 24-30ft/lb 
air rifle. They are overpriced in my experience and you are better off 
with a good air rifle. Possibly a FAC precharge would be better suited 
for your needs?



Steve Rawlings

Hello Chas,

An air rifle is well up to the job of killing pigeons, personally I shoot
for their head. The breast of the pigeon is thick meat and will slow a
pellet down a fair bit. The vital organs are in the top third of the pigeons
body. Estimate the range you take most shots at and then zero your sights to
that range that way at least you can be confident that you're hitting the
spot you're shooting for or very close to it. You may also find that the
birds nerves are causing some movement after it has been shot.

Hope this helps
Regards
Dave (www.kwacs.org.uk)



"Chas" <me@home> wrote in message 
news:462f2012$0$8754$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
> Hello.
>
> I'm currently using a Weihrauch HW77 with scope for pest control inside an 
> old aircraft hanger used for car storage.
>
> Pest control (pidgeons) is a necessity as it is not possible to secure the 
> building against ingress and their droppings are affecting the vehicles 
> paintwork.
>
> Currently I'm hitting everything I shoot at, the problem is I'm not 
> killing first shot. This is personnally distressing, if it wasn't a 
> necessity I could quite happily ignore their presence.
>
> Is their any particular type of pellet I should be using for a 1 hit 
> instant kill or is an air rifle just not up to the job?
>
> I've considered upgradeing to a .22 rimfire but I don't feel this is the 
> answer, a shotgun is out of the question as I'm mainly shooting into the 
> roofspace at very short range.
>
> Many thanks for any qualified & informed responses.

In message <462f2012$0$8754$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>, Chas 
<me@home.?.invalid> writes
>Hello.
>
>I'm currently using a Weihrauch HW77 with scope for pest control inside 
>an old aircraft hanger used for car storage.
>
>Pest control (pidgeons) is a necessity as it is not possible to secure 
>the building against ingress and their droppings are affecting the 
>vehicles paintwork.
>
>Currently I'm hitting everything I shoot at, the problem is I'm not 
>killing first shot. This is personnally distressing, if it wasn't a 
>necessity I could quite happily ignore their presence.

Where are you hitting them?  If you aim just behind the fold of the 
wing, you'll put the pellet directly into the heart/lung area, and/or 
hit the 'elbow' to bring them down.  Finishing them off by hand is quick 
and easy.  You won't get instantaneous kills with an air rifle, but 
doing the above will result in swift death which is acceptable IMO.

>Is their any particular type of pellet I should be using for a 1 hit 
>instant kill or is an air rifle just not up to the job?

Any decent pellet will do, whatever delivers the best accuracy.  Air gun 
pellets are much of a muchness with respect to wound channels etc.

>I've considered upgradeing to a .22 rimfire but I don't feel this is 
>the answer, a shotgun is out of the question as I'm mainly shooting 
>into the roofspace at very short range.

A .22 rimfire will rip through the pigeon and punch holes in your roof. 
You don't want that, I imagine.  Stick with what you've got.


-- 
Jonathan

"Life is tough - even tougher if you're stupid."
John Wayne

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:32:13 +0100, Chas <me@home> wrote:

>Hello.
>
>I'm currently using a Weihrauch HW77 with scope for pest control inside 
>an old aircraft hanger used for car storage.
>
If it's in good nick an HW77 should be up to the job, especially with
head shots.

>Pest control (pidgeons) is a necessity as it is not possible to secure 
>the building against ingress and their droppings are affecting the 
>vehicles paintwork.
>

Is it not possible to reduce the ingress to some extent, even if you
can't stop it entirely?.  Wire mesh stuffed into the more obvious
opening if you can reach them.

>Currently I'm hitting everything I shoot at, the problem is I'm not 
>killing first shot. This is personnally distressing, if it wasn't a 
>necessity I could quite happily ignore their presence.

As someone else has pointed out pigeons will often continue to flap
long after they are technically dead.  If wringing their necks to make
sure makes you feel uncomfortable then carry a short but solid stick
like a fisherman's 'Priest' to administer the last rites with a whack
on the head.  A one foot length of one inch dowelling is more than
adequate. Not everyone is a 'hands-on' killer.
>
>I've considered upgradeing to a .22 rimfire but I don't feel this is the 
>answer, a shotgun is out of the question as I'm mainly shooting into the 
>roofspace at very short range.
>
Approaching this from a different angle now...  It's been a long time
since I stood in an aircraft hangar, but if memory serves they are
generally a lot bigger than people think.  So, although you are
hitting the birds they may well be beyond 'clean kill' range...
Personally I think anything above twenty yards is pushing it a bit for
an ordinary spring air rifle.  Ten is better if you can get close
enough.

Ten yards is only thirty feet - which ain't much at all - in the
cavernous space of a hangar.

Gyppo

Thanks to all for your responses.

I'm in the process of applying for a licence from DEFRA, I never knew 
you needed one, sorry !

To clarify, it's an old WWII hanger and approx 10m to eaves with A LOT 
of steel up in the roof, not a modern high 'shed' type construction. 
It's not possible to fully secure against ingress as 1 of the HUGE doors 
is permanently open, plus it is a ventilated roof construction, water 
tight but definately not pidgeon tight.

I'm hitting everything I shoot at, It's been 20 yrs since I last picked 
up a gun but I haven't lost it. If 20yr old training still counts, then 
I have been trained to a very high standard in gun craft.

Hmmm, said it myself, I'll sign up to a refresher . . .

The majority of the pidgeons are definately surviving the first shot, 
they'll fly to another perch where they often remain till we get the 
ladders out. I carry a Priest Stick but find it unnecessary if they've 
actually dropped to the floor. I'm going for chest shots because 
usually, almost directly underneath the bird, that is what is presented.

"Chas" <me@home> wrote in message 
news:46308d4d$0$8756$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...

<snipped>
I'm going for chest shots because usually, almost directly underneath the 
bird, that is what is presented

Hello Chas,

If you have to go for the chest area aim about 2" to 2.1/2"  or so below the 
beak, the vital organs of the pigeon are well up into the chest cavity and 
not a very large target.

Regards
Dave (www.kwacs.org.uk)

In message <46308d4d$0$8756$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>, Chas 
<me@home.?.invalid> writes

>To clarify, it's an old WWII hanger and approx 10m to eaves with A LOT 
>of steel up in the roof, not a modern high 'shed' type construction. 
>It's not possible to fully secure against ingress as 1 of the HUGE 
>doors is permanently open, plus it is a ventilated roof construction, 
>water tight but definately not pidgeon tight.

>The majority of the pidgeons are definately surviving the first shot, 
>they'll fly to another perch where they often remain till we get the 
>ladders out. I carry a Priest Stick but find it unnecessary if they've 
>actually dropped to the floor. I'm going for chest shots because 
>usually, almost directly underneath the bird, that is what is presented.

Aim for just beneath the point where the neck joins the torso, that's 
where the vitals are.  If you're aiming directly into the centre of the 
breast, you're in the wrong place.  (Take a look where you're hitting 
them when you next kill one.)  Oh, and use pointed pellets if you can as 
they will part the feathers: round nosed and flat nosed pellets gather 
up a plug of feathers and that will reduce penetration.

You might find a 9mm garden gun (a small bore shotgun firing 1/4 ounce 
of shot) is useful, but they have very limited range as their name 
suggests.  Or as you initially suggested, a .22 rimfire in which case 
you would need to fire .22 Shorts or even CB caps to avoid damaging the 
hangar.

-- 
Jonathan

Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel.
Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928

On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 15:45:44 GMT, Jonathan Spencer
 wrote:

>In message <46308d4d$0$8756$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>, Chas 
><me@home.?.invalid> writes
>
>>To clarify, it's an old WWII hanger and approx 10m to eaves with A LOT 
>>of steel up in the roof, not a modern high 'shed' type construction. 
>>It's not possible to fully secure against ingress as 1 of the HUGE 
>>doors is permanently open, plus it is a ventilated roof construction, 
>>water tight but definately not pidgeon tight.
>
>>The majority of the pidgeons are definately surviving the first shot, 
>>they'll fly to another perch where they often remain till we get the 
>>ladders out. I carry a Priest Stick but find it unnecessary if they've 
>>actually dropped to the floor. I'm going for chest shots because 
>>usually, almost directly underneath the bird, that is what is presented.
>
>Aim for just beneath the point where the neck joins the torso, that's 
>where the vitals are.  If you're aiming directly into the centre of the 
>breast, you're in the wrong place.  (Take a look where you're hitting 
>them when you next kill one.)  Oh, and use pointed pellets if you can as 
>they will part the feathers: round nosed and flat nosed pellets gather 
>up a plug of feathers and that will reduce penetration.
>
>You might find a 9mm garden gun (a small bore shotgun firing 1/4 ounce 
>of shot) is useful, but they have very limited range as their name 
>suggests.  Or as you initially suggested, a .22 rimfire in which case 
>you would need to fire .22 Shorts or even CB caps to avoid damaging the 
>hangar.

Can you find .22 shorts anymore?

I used them until they seemed unobtainable. (Good old Labour
legistlation.... :-(  )

J.

In article <462f2012$0$8754$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>, 
me@home (Chas) wrote:

> Is their any particular type of pellet I should be using for a 1 hit 
> instant kill or is an air rifle just not up to the job?

A one hit kill with a pigeon will need a head shot every time I would 
say. In which case the pellet is of small consequence IMO. Even a 12b 
shotgun is not a guarantee of a kill.
> 
> I've considered upgradeing to a .22 rimfire but I don't feel this is 
> the answer, a shotgun is out of the question as I'm mainly shooting 
> into the roofspace at very short range.

You can get .22 shotshells, but they would be no use. You can get 
very-subsonic .22 shells to give a performance similiar to a 24-30ft/lb 
air rifle. They are overpriced in my experience and you are better off 
with a good air rifle. Possibly a FAC precharge would be better suited 
for your needs?



Steve Rawlings

Hello Chas,

An air rifle is well up to the job of killing pigeons, personally I shoot
for their head. The breast of the pigeon is thick meat and will slow a
pellet down a fair bit. The vital organs are in the top third of the pigeons
body. Estimate the range you take most shots at and then zero your sights to
that range that way at least you can be confident that you're hitting the
spot you're shooting for or very close to it. You may also find that the
birds nerves are causing some movement after it has been shot.

Hope this helps
Regards
Dave (www.kwacs.org.uk)



"Chas" <me@home> wrote in message 
news:462f2012$0$8754$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
> Hello.
>
> I'm currently using a Weihrauch HW77 with scope for pest control inside an 
> old aircraft hanger used for car storage.
>
> Pest control (pidgeons) is a necessity as it is not possible to secure the 
> building against ingress and their droppings are affecting the vehicles 
> paintwork.
>
> Currently I'm hitting everything I shoot at, the problem is I'm not 
> killing first shot. This is personnally distressing, if it wasn't a 
> necessity I could quite happily ignore their presence.
>
> Is their any particular type of pellet I should be using for a 1 hit 
> instant kill or is an air rifle just not up to the job?
>
> I've considered upgradeing to a .22 rimfire but I don't feel this is the 
> answer, a shotgun is out of the question as I'm mainly shooting into the 
> roofspace at very short range.
>
> Many thanks for any qualified & informed responses.

In message <462f2012$0$8754$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>, Chas 
<me@home.?.invalid> writes
>Hello.
>
>I'm currently using a Weihrauch HW77 with scope for pest control inside 
>an old aircraft hanger used for car storage.
>
>Pest control (pidgeons) is a necessity as it is not possible to secure 
>the building against ingress and their droppings are affecting the 
>vehicles paintwork.
>
>Currently I'm hitting everything I shoot at, the problem is I'm not 
>killing first shot. This is personnally distressing, if it wasn't a 
>necessity I could quite happily ignore their presence.

Where are you hitting them?  If you aim just behind the fold of the 
wing, you'll put the pellet directly into the heart/lung area, and/or 
hit the 'elbow' to bring them down.  Finishing them off by hand is quick 
and easy.  You won't get instantaneous kills with an air rifle, but 
doing the above will result in swift death which is acceptable IMO.

>Is their any particular type of pellet I should be using for a 1 hit 
>instant kill or is an air rifle just not up to the job?

Any decent pellet will do, whatever delivers the best accuracy.  Air gun 
pellets are much of a muchness with respect to wound channels etc.

>I've considered upgradeing to a .22 rimfire but I don't feel this is 
>the answer, a shotgun is out of the question as I'm mainly shooting 
>into the roofspace at very short range.

A .22 rimfire will rip through the pigeon and punch holes in your roof. 
You don't want that, I imagine.  Stick with what you've got.


-- 
Jonathan

"Life is tough - even tougher if you're stupid."
John Wayne

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:32:13 +0100, Chas <me@home> wrote:

>Hello.
>
>I'm currently using a Weihrauch HW77 with scope for pest control inside 
>an old aircraft hanger used for car storage.
>
If it's in good nick an HW77 should be up to the job, especially with
head shots.

>Pest control (pidgeons) is a necessity as it is not possible to secure 
>the building against ingress and their droppings are affecting the 
>vehicles paintwork.
>

Is it not possible to reduce the ingress to some extent, even if you
can't stop it entirely?.  Wire mesh stuffed into the more obvious
opening if you can reach them.

>Currently I'm hitting everything I shoot at, the problem is I'm not 
>killing first shot. This is personnally distressing, if it wasn't a 
>necessity I could quite happily ignore their presence.

As someone else has pointed out pigeons will often continue to flap
long after they are technically dead.  If wringing their necks to make
sure makes you feel uncomfortable then carry a short but solid stick
like a fisherman's 'Priest' to administer the last rites with a whack
on the head.  A one foot length of one inch dowelling is more than
adequate. Not everyone is a 'hands-on' killer.
>
>I've considered upgradeing to a .22 rimfire but I don't feel this is the 
>answer, a shotgun is out of the question as I'm mainly shooting into the 
>roofspace at very short range.
>
Approaching this from a different angle now...  It's been a long time
since I stood in an aircraft hangar, but if memory serves they are
generally a lot bigger than people think.  So, although you are
hitting the birds they may well be beyond 'clean kill' range...
Personally I think anything above twenty yards is pushing it a bit for
an ordinary spring air rifle.  Ten is better if you can get close
enough.

Ten yards is only thirty feet - which ain't much at all - in the
cavernous space of a hangar.

Gyppo

Thanks to all for your responses.

I'm in the process of applying for a licence from DEFRA, I never knew 
you needed one, sorry !

To clarify, it's an old WWII hanger and approx 10m to eaves with A LOT 
of steel up in the roof, not a modern high 'shed' type construction. 
It's not possible to fully secure against ingress as 1 of the HUGE doors 
is permanently open, plus it is a ventilated roof construction, water 
tight but definately not pidgeon tight.

I'm hitting everything I shoot at, It's been 20 yrs since I last picked 
up a gun but I haven't lost it. If 20yr old training still counts, then 
I have been trained to a very high standard in gun craft.

Hmmm, said it myself, I'll sign up to a refresher . . .

The majority of the pidgeons are definately surviving the first shot, 
they'll fly to another perch where they often remain till we get the 
ladders out. I carry a Priest Stick but find it unnecessary if they've 
actually dropped to the floor. I'm going for chest shots because 
usually, almost directly underneath the bird, that is what is presented.

"Chas" <me@home> wrote in message 
news:46308d4d$0$8756$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...

<snipped>
I'm going for chest shots because usually, almost directly underneath the 
bird, that is what is presented

Hello Chas,

If you have to go for the chest area aim about 2" to 2.1/2"  or so below the 
beak, the vital organs of the pigeon are well up into the chest cavity and 
not a very large target.

Regards
Dave (www.kwacs.org.uk)

In message <46308d4d$0$8756$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>, Chas 
<me@home.?.invalid> writes

>To clarify, it's an old WWII hanger and approx 10m to eaves with A LOT 
>of steel up in the roof, not a modern high 'shed' type construction. 
>It's not possible to fully secure against ingress as 1 of the HUGE 
>doors is permanently open, plus it is a ventilated roof construction, 
>water tight but definately not pidgeon tight.

>The majority of the pidgeons are definately surviving the first shot, 
>they'll fly to another perch where they often remain till we get the 
>ladders out. I carry a Priest Stick but find it unnecessary if they've 
>actually dropped to the floor. I'm going for chest shots because 
>usually, almost directly underneath the bird, that is what is presented.

Aim for just beneath the point where the neck joins the torso, that's 
where the vitals are.  If you're aiming directly into the centre of the 
breast, you're in the wrong place.  (Take a look where you're hitting 
them when you next kill one.)  Oh, and use pointed pellets if you can as 
they will part the feathers: round nosed and flat nosed pellets gather 
up a plug of feathers and that will reduce penetration.

You might find a 9mm garden gun (a small bore shotgun firing 1/4 ounce 
of shot) is useful, but they have very limited range as their name 
suggests.  Or as you initially suggested, a .22 rimfire in which case 
you would need to fire .22 Shorts or even CB caps to avoid damaging the 
hangar.

-- 
Jonathan

Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel.
Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928

On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 15:45:44 GMT, Jonathan Spencer
 wrote:

>In message <46308d4d$0$8756$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>, Chas 
><me@home.?.invalid> writes
>
>>To clarify, it's an old WWII hanger and approx 10m to eaves with A LOT 
>>of steel up in the roof, not a modern high 'shed' type construction. 
>>It's not possible to fully secure against ingress as 1 of the HUGE 
>>doors is permanently open, plus it is a ventilated roof construction, 
>>water tight but definately not pidgeon tight.
>
>>The majority of the pidgeons are definately surviving the first shot, 
>>they'll fly to another perch where they often remain till we get the 
>>ladders out. I carry a Priest Stick but find it unnecessary if they've 
>>actually dropped to the floor. I'm going for chest shots because 
>>usually, almost directly underneath the bird, that is what is presented.
>
>Aim for just beneath the point where the neck joins the torso, that's 
>where the vitals are.  If you're aiming directly into the centre of the 
>breast, you're in the wrong place.  (Take a look where you're hitting 
>them when you next kill one.)  Oh, and use pointed pellets if you can as 
>they will part the feathers: round nosed and flat nosed pellets gather 
>up a plug of feathers and that will reduce penetration.
>
>You might find a 9mm garden gun (a small bore shotgun firing 1/4 ounce 
>of shot) is useful, but they have very limited range as their name 
>suggests.  Or as you initially suggested, a .22 rimfire in which case 
>you would need to fire .22 Shorts or even CB caps to avoid damaging the 
>hangar.

Can you find .22 shorts anymore?

I used them until they seemed unobtainable. (Good old Labour
legistlation.... :-(  )

J.

Thanks to all for your responses.

I'm in the process of applying for a licence from DEFRA, I never knew 
you needed one, sorry !

To clarify, it's an old WWII hanger and approx 10m to eaves with A LOT 
of steel up in the roof, not a modern high 'shed' type construction. 
It's not possible to fully secure against ingress as 1 of the HUGE doors 
is permanently open, plus it is a ventilated roof construction, water 
tight but definately not pidgeon tight.

I'm hitting everything I shoot at, It's been 20 yrs since I last picked 
up a gun but I haven't lost it. If 20yr old training still counts, then 
I have been trained to a very high standard in gun craft.

Hmmm, said it myself, I'll sign up to a refresher . . .

The majority of the pidgeons are definately surviving the first shot, 
they'll fly to another perch where they often remain till we get the 
ladders out. I carry a Priest Stick but find it unnecessary if they've 
actually dropped to the floor. I'm going for chest shots because 
usually, almost directly underneath the bird, that is what is presented.

"Chas" <me@home> wrote in message 
news:46308d4d$0$8756$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...

<snipped>
I'm going for chest shots because usually, almost directly underneath the 
bird, that is what is presented

Hello Chas,

If you have to go for the chest area aim about 2" to 2.1/2"  or so below the 
beak, the vital organs of the pigeon are well up into the chest cavity and 
not a very large target.

Regards
Dave (www.kwacs.org.uk)

In message <46308d4d$0$8756$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>, Chas 
<me@home.?.invalid> writes

>To clarify, it's an old WWII hanger and approx 10m to eaves with A LOT 
>of steel up in the roof, not a modern high 'shed' type construction. 
>It's not possible to fully secure against ingress as 1 of the HUGE 
>doors is permanently open, plus it is a ventilated roof construction, 
>water tight but definately not pidgeon tight.

>The majority of the pidgeons are definately surviving the first shot, 
>they'll fly to another perch where they often remain till we get the 
>ladders out. I carry a Priest Stick but find it unnecessary if they've 
>actually dropped to the floor. I'm going for chest shots because 
>usually, almost directly underneath the bird, that is what is presented.

Aim for just beneath the point where the neck joins the torso, that's 
where the vitals are.  If you're aiming directly into the centre of the 
breast, you're in the wrong place.  (Take a look where you're hitting 
them when you next kill one.)  Oh, and use pointed pellets if you can as 
they will part the feathers: round nosed and flat nosed pellets gather 
up a plug of feathers and that will reduce penetration.

You might find a 9mm garden gun (a small bore shotgun firing 1/4 ounce 
of shot) is useful, but they have very limited range as their name 
suggests.  Or as you initially suggested, a .22 rimfire in which case 
you would need to fire .22 Shorts or even CB caps to avoid damaging the 
hangar.

-- 
Jonathan

Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel.
Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928

On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 15:45:44 GMT, Jonathan Spencer
 wrote:

>In message <46308d4d$0$8756$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>, Chas 
><me@home.?.invalid> writes
>
>>To clarify, it's an old WWII hanger and approx 10m to eaves with A LOT 
>>of steel up in the roof, not a modern high 'shed' type construction. 
>>It's not possible to fully secure against ingress as 1 of the HUGE 
>>doors is permanently open, plus it is a ventilated roof construction, 
>>water tight but definately not pidgeon tight.
>
>>The majority of the pidgeons are definately surviving the first shot, 
>>they'll fly to another perch where they often remain till we get the 
>>ladders out. I carry a Priest Stick but find it unnecessary if they've 
>>actually dropped to the floor. I'm going for chest shots because 
>>usually, almost directly underneath the bird, that is what is presented.
>
>Aim for just beneath the point where the neck joins the torso, that's 
>where the vitals are.  If you're aiming directly into the centre of the 
>breast, you're in the wrong place.  (Take a look where you're hitting 
>them when you next kill one.)  Oh, and use pointed pellets if you can as 
>they will part the feathers: round nosed and flat nosed pellets gather 
>up a plug of feathers and that will reduce penetration.
>
>You might find a 9mm garden gun (a small bore shotgun firing 1/4 ounce 
>of shot) is useful, but they have very limited range as their name 
>suggests.  Or as you initially suggested, a .22 rimfire in which case 
>you would need to fire .22 Shorts or even CB caps to avoid damaging the 
>hangar.

Can you find .22 shorts anymore?

I used them until they seemed unobtainable. (Good old Labour
legistlation.... :-(  )

J.

On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 15:45:44 GMT, Jonathan Spencer
 wrote:

>In message <46308d4d$0$8756$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>, Chas 
><me@home.?.invalid> writes
>
>>To clarify, it's an old WWII hanger and approx 10m to eaves with A LOT 
>>of steel up in the roof, not a modern high 'shed' type construction. 
>>It's not possible to fully secure against ingress as 1 of the HUGE 
>>doors is permanently open, plus it is a ventilated roof construction, 
>>water tight but definately not pidgeon tight.
>
>>The majority of the pidgeons are definately surviving the first shot, 
>>they'll fly to another perch where they often remain till we get the 
>>ladders out. I carry a Priest Stick but find it unnecessary if they've 
>>actually dropped to the floor. I'm going for chest shots because 
>>usually, almost directly underneath the bird, that is what is presented.
>
>Aim for just beneath the point where the neck joins the torso, that's 
>where the vitals are.  If you're aiming directly into the centre of the 
>breast, you're in the wrong place.  (Take a look where you're hitting 
>them when you next kill one.)  Oh, and use pointed pellets if you can as 
>they will part the feathers: round nosed and flat nosed pellets gather 
>up a plug of feathers and that will reduce penetration.
>
>You might find a 9mm garden gun (a small bore shotgun firing 1/4 ounce 
>of shot) is useful, but they have very limited range as their name 
>suggests.  Or as you initially suggested, a .22 rimfire in which case 
>you would need to fire .22 Shorts or even CB caps to avoid damaging the 
>hangar.

Can you find .22 shorts anymore?

I used them until they seemed unobtainable. (Good old Labour
legistlation.... :-(  )

J.