My Shite Old Dad, life-long Commie[1] that he is, is of the opinion that 
the current situation marks the inevitable collapse of Capitalism, as 
predicted by Marx.

I find myself increasingly unable to refute this position.

Discuss.

[1] As in, was a (young) participant in The Battle Of Cable Street.
-- 
Wicked Uncle Nigel - "He's hopeless, but he's honest"

My position was (and, to be honest, largely remains) one of complete ambiguity.

Wicked Uncle Nigel wrote:
> My Shite Old Dad, life-long Commie[1] that he is, is of the opinion
> that the current situation marks the inevitable collapse of
> Capitalism, as predicted by Marx.
> 
> I find myself increasingly unable to refute this position.
> 
> Discuss.

It's just a phase.

In communiqué , Wicked Uncle Nigel 
 cast forth these pearls of wisdom
>My Shite Old Dad, life-long Commie[1] that he is, is of the opinion 
>that the current situation marks the inevitable collapse of Capitalism, 
>as predicted by Marx.
>
>I find myself increasingly unable to refute this position.
>
>Discuss.

Nah, all just part of the 'Zeitgeist' conspiracy innit. Them that really 
run things have already salted away the loot they have made in to gold. 
They will buy back in to the markets when they hit bottom, just before 
the bale out deal actually happens (the date o which they will 
determine).


-- 
+----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Fisher at Home:   Peter@ps-fisher.demon.co.uk             |
| Voxan Roadster     Gilera Nordwest * 2     Yamaha WR250Z       |
| Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" |
+----------------------------------------------------------------+

Wicked Uncle Nigel wrote:
> My Shite Old Dad, life-long Commie[1] that he is, is of the opinion that 
> the current situation marks the inevitable collapse of Capitalism, as 
> predicted by Marx.
> 
> I find myself increasingly unable to refute this position.
> 
> Discuss.
> 
> [1] As in, was a (young) participant in The Battle Of Cable Street.

Perhaps you could introduce him to Lady Nina to discuss tactics.

-- 
Eiron.

Wicked Uncle Nigel wrote:
> My Shite Old Dad, life-long Commie[1] that he is, is of the opinion
> that the current situation marks the inevitable collapse of
> Capitalism, as predicted by Marx.
>
> I find myself increasingly unable to refute this position.
>
> Discuss.
>
> [1] As in, was a (young) participant in The Battle Of Cable Street.

Dunno if its the collapse but Marx was right about capitalism being
inherently unstable.  Its always going to cycle between boom and bust.  We
are now entering a period of major recession after a prolonged boom - as I
predicted almost exactly 12 months ago when Northern Rock was a topic for
discussion here.  The world order that we have grown used to is changing
before our eyes.  I don't take any satisfaction - its all a bit scary and
nobody knows how bad it might get.

-- 
Tony
'04 Ducati ST3, '08 DL650GT, '95 LS650, OMF#24

On 29 Sep, 23:52, Wicked Uncle Nigel 
wrote:

> My Shite Old Dad, life-long Commie[1] that he is, is of the opinion that
> the current situation marks the inevitable collapse of Capitalism, as
> predicted by Marx.
>
> I find myself increasingly unable to refute this position.
>
> Discuss.

I think you'll find that the current chaos is well under control and
going nicely to plan.

"Wicked Uncle Nigel"  wrote in message 
news:MlFC9gk4wV4IJAhC@rcav8r.demon.co.uk...
> My Shite Old Dad, life-long Commie[1] that he is, is of the opinion that 
> [1] As in, was a (young) participant in The Battle Of Cable Street.

Regular old ukrm prequel then, wasn't it.  Your dad, my late dad and uncle, 
Bear's grandfather were all there.  I wonder if, by chance, they met and had 
a beer afterwards.

On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 09:11:59 +0100, "Charlie" 
wrote:

>
>"Wicked Uncle Nigel"  wrote in message 
>news:MlFC9gk4wV4IJAhC@rcav8r.demon.co.uk...
>> My Shite Old Dad, life-long Commie[1] that he is, is of the opinion that 
>> [1] As in, was a (young) participant in The Battle Of Cable Street.
>
>Regular old ukrm prequel then, wasn't it.  Your dad, my late dad and uncle, 
>Bear's grandfather were all there.  I wonder if, by chance, they met and had 
>a beer afterwards. 
>
It's beginning to sound like the '66 World Cup Final
-- 
Salad Dodger

Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, Charlie 
 typed
>
>"Wicked Uncle Nigel"  wrote in message
>news:MlFC9gk4wV4IJAhC@rcav8r.demon.co.uk...
>> My Shite Old Dad, life-long Commie[1] that he is, is of the opinion that
>> [1] As in, was a (young) participant in The Battle Of Cable Street.
>
>Regular old ukrm prequel then, wasn't it.  Your dad, my late dad and uncle,
>Bear's grandfather were all there.  I wonder if, by chance, they met and had
>a beer afterwards.

Dad was below beer drinking age.

Umm... Look, I hope you don't mind me asking: which side were your lot 
on?

-- 
Wicked Uncle Nigel - "He's hopeless, but he's honest"

My position was (and, to be honest, largely remains) one of complete ambiguity.

Wicked Uncle Nigel wrote:

> My Shite Old Dad, life-long Commie[1] that he is, is of the opinion
> that the current situation marks the inevitable collapse of
> Capitalism, as predicted by Marx.
> 
> I find myself increasingly unable to refute this position.
> 
> Discuss.

*sob*

It's probably as much the end of capitalism as the crash in the 80s
was, and the great depression in the 20s. I think the prolonged lack of
growth in the 60s & 70s (in the UK) did see the downfall of
Keynesianism, and the rise of Monetarism, so maybe there will be some
lasting changes.

Interestingly, in the 20s, the federal reserve were against
intervention to save failing banks, and even though the US government
was broadly for it, the people who ran the Fed managed to convince
enough of them it was a bad idea. At the time, this allowed those same
people to buy up lots of large banking assets on the cheap. Now, it's
those large banking assets that are falling over, the... oh you can
guess the rest.

I was reading about the nationalisation of banks last night - it's a
bit of a con really, all the sound assets are being sold off to other
banks, and the governments are just throwing money away on the bad
bits. It's as much nationalisation as buying spoiled produce in order
to prop up farmers would be.

On 30 Sep, 10:20, "Simian"  wrote:

> > My Shite Old Dad, life-long Commie[1] that he is, is of the opinion
> > that the current situation marks the inevitable collapse of
> > Capitalism, as predicted by Marx.
>
> > I find myself increasingly unable to refute this position.
>
> > Discuss.
>
> *sob*
>
> It's probably as much the end of capitalism as the crash in the 80s
> was, and the great depression in the 20s. I think the prolonged lack of
> growth in the 60s & 70s (in the UK) did see the downfall of
> Keynesianism, and the rise of Monetarism, so maybe there will be some
> lasting changes.
>
> Interestingly, in the 20s, the federal reserve were against
> intervention to save failing banks, and even though the US government
> was broadly for it, the people who ran the Fed managed to convince
> enough of them it was a bad idea. At the time, this allowed those same
> people to buy up lots of large banking assets on the cheap. Now, it's
> those large banking assets that are falling over, the... oh you can
> guess the rest.
>
> I was reading about the nationalisation of banks last night - it's a
> bit of a con really, all the sound assets are being sold off to other
> banks, and the governments are just throwing money away on the bad
> bits. It's as much nationalisation as buying spoiled produce in order
> to prop up farmers would be.

*ding-a-fucking-ling*

"Cane"  wrote in message 
news:e25120ac-4190-4ced-8373-fdb46fd6dd3d@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On 30 Sep, 10:20, "Simian"  wrote:
>
>> > My Shite Old Dad, life-long Commie[1] that he is, is of the opinion
>> > that the current situation marks the inevitable collapse of
>> > Capitalism, as predicted by Marx.
>>
>> > I find myself increasingly unable to refute this position.
>>
>> > Discuss.
>>
>> *sob*
>>
>> It's probably as much the end of capitalism as the crash in the 80s
>> was, and the great depression in the 20s. I think the prolonged lack 
>> of
>> growth in the 60s & 70s (in the UK) did see the downfall of
>> Keynesianism, and the rise of Monetarism, so maybe there will be some
>> lasting changes.
>>
>> Interestingly, in the 20s, the federal reserve were against
>> intervention to save failing banks, and even though the US government
>> was broadly for it, the people who ran the Fed managed to convince
>> enough of them it was a bad idea. At the time, this allowed those 
>> same
>> people to buy up lots of large banking assets on the cheap. Now, it's
>> those large banking assets that are falling over, the... oh you can
>> guess the rest.
>>
>> I was reading about the nationalisation of banks last night - it's a
>> bit of a con really, all the sound assets are being sold off to other
>> banks, and the governments are just throwing money away on the bad
>> bits. It's as much nationalisation as buying spoiled produce in order
>> to prop up farmers would be.
>
> *ding-a-fucking-ling*

What help would there be for us fucking business owners that pay the 
fuckin g taxes to prop up the rest of the cunts?

"Wicked Uncle Nigel"  wrote in message 
news:Tu51$$nIYe4IJAT+@rcav8r.demon.co.uk...
> Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, Charlie 
>  typed
>>
>>"Wicked Uncle Nigel"  wrote in message
>>news:MlFC9gk4wV4IJAhC@rcav8r.demon.co.uk...
>>> My Shite Old Dad, life-long Commie[1] that he is, is of the opinion that
>>> [1] As in, was a (young) participant in The Battle Of Cable Street.
>>
>>Regular old ukrm prequel then, wasn't it.  Your dad, my late dad and 
>>uncle,
>>Bear's grandfather were all there.  I wonder if, by chance, they met and 
>>had
>>a beer afterwards.
>
> Dad was below beer drinking age.
>
> Umm... Look, I hope you don't mind me asking: which side were your lot on?

Eh?  Bloody cheek!  My dad was almost 17, and uncle was 19. Let's put it 
this way, soon after that they both figured that war [and thus conscription] 
was inevitable and joined the TA, on the principle that they'd be treated 
better, and have a more interesting war, if their military training was a 
couple of years ahead of the rest of the rabble.  Uncle was picked up at 
Dunkirk, however, and had a war that was nearly as dull as he was!

"Charlie"  wrote in
news:36idnYRtjYIufnzVnZ2dnUVZ8qydnZ2d@bt.com: 

> 
> "Wicked Uncle Nigel"  wrote in message 
> news:MlFC9gk4wV4IJAhC@rcav8r.demon.co.uk...
>> My Shite Old Dad, life-long Commie[1] that he is, is of the opinion
>> that [1] As in, was a (young) participant in The Battle Of Cable
>> Street. 
> 
> Regular old ukrm prequel then, wasn't it.  Your dad, my late dad and
> uncle, Bear's grandfather were all there.  I wonder if, by chance,
> they met and had Auvache's mum afterwards. 
> 
> 

eww

-- 
wessie at tesco dot net

BMW R1150GS

Nige wrote:
> 
> What help would there be for us fucking business owners that pay the 
> fuckin g taxes to prop up the rest of the cunts? 

You've bought a brothel? When did that happen?

-- 
Eddie                                                eddie@deguello.org

His: ZX-9R, Elefant 900                   http://www.last.fm/group/ukrm
Hers: Monster S4R, GSX600F (breaking, everything must go!)

Nige wrote:

> > > 
> > > I was reading about the nationalisation of banks last night -
> > > it's a bit of a con really, all the sound assets are being sold
> > > off to other banks, and the governments are just throwing money
> > > away on the bad bits. It's as much nationalisation as buying
> > > spoiled produce in order to prop up farmers would be.
> > 
> > *ding-a-fucking-ling*
> 
> What help would there be for us fucking business owners that pay the
> fuckin g taxes to prop up the rest of the cunts?

Well, obviously they don't care about you. As far as they're concerned,
as long as interest rates are low enough to make capital investment
profitable, and wage inflation is low enough to make employing people
profitable, there's always going to be someone starting or growing a
business that can replace you.

"the only way the state can get a profit is by selling the goods abroad,
and the only way that this can happen is if the foreign states are
capitalist and have a surplus from their taxes to buy things with. Or
else you've got to sell to capitalist companies. So it's obvious that
Communism cannot survive without capitalism, and this makes it
self-contradictory, because Communism is supposed to be the end of
capitalism, and moreover it is supposed to be internationalist. It
follows from my argument that if the whole world went Communist, the
entire economy of the globe would grind to a halt within the space of a
week."

So said Dr Iannis in Captain Correlli's Mandolin.  Interesting point
though ;-)

Mickey Mouse wrote:

> "the only way the state can get a profit is by selling the goods
> abroad, and the only way that this can happen is if the foreign
> states are capitalist and have a surplus from their taxes to buy
> things with. Or else you've got to sell to capitalist companies. So
> it's obvious that Communism cannot survive without capitalism, and
> this makes it self-contradictory, because Communism is supposed to be
> the end of capitalism, and moreover it is supposed to be
> internationalist. It follows from my argument that if the whole world
> went Communist, the entire economy of the globe would grind to a halt
> within the space of a week."
> 
> So said Dr Iannis in Captain Correlli's Mandolin.  Interesting point
> though ;-)


Not really. IIRC, true Communism, according to Marx, is a stateless
world wide never never land where we are all Peter Pan, except there
are no Captain Hooks.

There are probably still crocodiles and fairies though.

On 30 Sep, 10:32, "Nige"  wrote:

> > On 30 Sep, 10:20, "Simian"  wrote:
>
> >> > My Shite Old Dad, life-long Commie[1] that he is, is of the opinion
> >> > that the current situation marks the inevitable collapse of
> >> > Capitalism, as predicted by Marx.
>
> >> > I find myself increasingly unable to refute this position.
>
> >> > Discuss.
>
> >> *sob*
>
> >> It's probably as much the end of capitalism as the crash in the 80s
> >> was, and the great depression in the 20s. I think the prolonged lack
> >> of
> >> growth in the 60s & 70s (in the UK) did see the downfall of
> >> Keynesianism, and the rise of Monetarism, so maybe there will be some
> >> lasting changes.
>
> >> Interestingly, in the 20s, the federal reserve were against
> >> intervention to save failing banks, and even though the US government
> >> was broadly for it, the people who ran the Fed managed to convince
> >> enough of them it was a bad idea. At the time, this allowed those
> >> same
> >> people to buy up lots of large banking assets on the cheap. Now, it's
> >> those large banking assets that are falling over, the... oh you can
> >> guess the rest.
>
> >> I was reading about the nationalisation of banks last night - it's a
> >> bit of a con really, all the sound assets are being sold off to other
> >> banks, and the governments are just throwing money away on the bad
> >> bits. It's as much nationalisation as buying spoiled produce in order
> >> to prop up farmers would be.
>
> > *ding-a-fucking-ling*
>
> What help would there be for us fucking business owners that pay the
> fuckin g taxes to prop up the rest of the cunts?

Maybe manufacturing won't be so fucking un fashionable now.

I've just had to endure listening to some cunt of a minister on R4
telling me how important manufacturing has always been to this
government and that's why they've invested so much!

Cane wrote:
> On 30 Sep, 10:32, "Nige"  wrote:
> 
>>> On 30 Sep, 10:20, "Simian"  wrote:
>>>>> My Shite Old Dad, life-long Commie[1] that he is, is of the opinion
>>>>> that the current situation marks the inevitable collapse of
>>>>> Capitalism, as predicted by Marx.
>>>>> I find myself increasingly unable to refute this position.
>>>>> Discuss.
>>>> *sob*
>>>> It's probably as much the end of capitalism as the crash in the 80s
>>>> was, and the great depression in the 20s. I think the prolonged lack
>>>> of
>>>> growth in the 60s & 70s (in the UK) did see the downfall of
>>>> Keynesianism, and the rise of Monetarism, so maybe there will be some
>>>> lasting changes.
>>>> Interestingly, in the 20s, the federal reserve were against
>>>> intervention to save failing banks, and even though the US government
>>>> was broadly for it, the people who ran the Fed managed to convince
>>>> enough of them it was a bad idea. At the time, this allowed those
>>>> same
>>>> people to buy up lots of large banking assets on the cheap. Now, it's
>>>> those large banking assets that are falling over, the... oh you can
>>>> guess the rest.
>>>> I was reading about the nationalisation of banks last night - it's a
>>>> bit of a con really, all the sound assets are being sold off to other
>>>> banks, and the governments are just throwing money away on the bad
>>>> bits. It's as much nationalisation as buying spoiled produce in order
>>>> to prop up farmers would be.
>>> *ding-a-fucking-ling*
>> What help would there be for us fucking business owners that pay the
>> fuckin g taxes to prop up the rest of the cunts?
> 
> Maybe manufacturing won't be so fucking un fashionable now.

It's about bloody time.

> 
> I've just had to endure listening to some cunt of a minister on R4
> telling me how important manufacturing has always been to this
> government and that's why they've invested so much!

Whaaaaaa? Where, persactly? It's taken this long for the penny to drop 
that moving everything to China wasn't such a good idea after all? Maybe 
now we'll be able to mow down all those new housing estates built on top 
of old factories and build up some proper industry again.

-- 
/Simon

On 30 Sep, 13:59, Simon Wilson 
wrote:

> > Maybe manufacturing won't be so fucking un fashionable now.
>
> It's about bloody time.

> > I've just had to endure listening to some cunt of a minister on R4
> > telling me how important manufacturing has always been to this
> > government and that's why they've invested so much!
>
> Whaaaaaa? Where, persactly? It's taken this long for the penny to drop
> that moving everything to China wasn't such a good idea after all? Maybe
> now we'll be able to mow down all those new housing estates built on top
> of old factories and build up some proper industry again.

heh, fat chance.

The minute the headlines change, everyone will forget today's lessons
and move on to the next media generated little drama.

* Simian wrote:
> Mickey Mouse wrote:
> 
>> "the only way the state can get a profit is by selling the goods
>> abroad, and the only way that this can happen is if the foreign
>> states are capitalist and have a surplus from their taxes to buy
>> things with. Or else you've got to sell to capitalist companies. So
>> it's obvious that Communism cannot survive without capitalism, and
>> this makes it self-contradictory, because Communism is supposed to be
>> the end of capitalism, and moreover it is supposed to be
>> internationalist. It follows from my argument that if the whole world
>> went Communist, the entire economy of the globe would grind to a halt
>> within the space of a week."
>>
>> So said Dr Iannis in Captain Correlli's Mandolin.  Interesting point
>> though ;-)
> 
> 
> Not really. IIRC, true Communism, according to Marx, is a stateless
> world wide never never land where we are all Peter Pan, except there
> are no Captain Hooks.
> 
> There are probably still crocodiles and fairies though.
> 
LOL

"Simon Wilson"  wrote in message 
news:6kem62F7hft1U1@mid.individual.net...
> Cane wrote:
>
>> I've just had to endure listening to some cunt of a minister on R4
>> telling me how important manufacturing has always been to this
>> government and that's why they've invested so much!
>
> Whaaaaaa? Where, persactly? It's taken this long for the penny to drop 
> that moving everything to China wasn't such a good idea after all? Maybe 
> now we'll be able to mow down all those new housing estates built on top 
> of old factories and build up some proper industry again.

What amazed me a while ago is that Germany are one of the world's biggest 
exporters after China by value. Obviously they make Mercs and BMWs and the 
like, but the little plastic bookends you get from Ikea are made in Germany 
too, which proves that you *can* make cheap shit in a western country at 
competitive rates, IMO.

In the referenced article, "Doki"  writes:

>What amazed me a while ago is that Germany are one of the world's
>biggest exporters after China by value. Obviously they make Mercs and
>BMWs and the like, but the little plastic bookends you get from Ikea
>are made in Germany too, which proves that you *can* make cheap shit
>in a western country at competitive rates, IMO.

And Germany has the biggest trade surplus in the world.
-- 
Differenza fra il rivoluzionaro e il cialtrone. Il rivoluzionario
rompe l'orologio e invece di presentarsi alle nove si presenta alle
nove meno cinque. Il cialtrone rompe l'orologio e si alza alle undici.
Michael Carley: http://people.bath.ac.uk/ensmjc/

In article , Charlie says...
> 
> "Wicked Uncle Nigel"  wrote in message 
> news:MlFC9gk4wV4IJAhC@rcav8r.demon.co.uk...
> > My Shite Old Dad, life-long Commie[1] that he is, is of the opinion that 
> > [1] As in, was a (young) participant in The Battle Of Cable Street.
> 
> Regular old ukrm prequel then, wasn't it.  Your dad, my late dad and uncle, 
> Bear's grandfather were all there.  I wonder if, by chance, they met and had 
> a beer afterwards. 

I read the post and thought exactly the same thing.

IIRC my granddad went to make a political point and my great-uncle Ned 
(my granddad's brother-in-law) [1] went because he was a large man of 
Irish extraction, and would travel far and wide in search of a fucking 
good punch-up.  And by golly he got one that day.  Beer would almost 
certainly have been a factor, either before, after or even (knowing 
Ned), during said punch-up.  

[1] In my family, "Uncle Ned" became rhyming slang for "dead", as in 
"the dog's Uncle Ned".  This worked well until my Uncle Ned died and my 
granddad told me, with great solemnity ... "son, it's ... it's your 
Uncle Ned ... he's Uncle Ned" ... there then followed a sort of mini 
"Who's on first" conversation ("er ... yes ... I know that" ... "no, 
he's *Uncle Ned*!" ... "yes!  I know that!") before the penny dropped 
about 30 seconds later, but by then we were too busy laughing
-- 
Bear
2002 Yamaha R1
Saab Aero Sport

On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 06:12:31 -0700 (PDT), Cane 
wrote:

>On 30 Sep, 13:59, Simon Wilson 
>wrote:

>> Whaaaaaa? Where, persactly? It's taken this long for the penny to drop
>> that moving everything to China wasn't such a good idea after all? Maybe
>> now we'll be able to mow down all those new housing estates built on top
>> of old factories and build up some proper industry again.
>
>heh, fat chance.
>
>The minute the headlines change, everyone will forget today's lessons
>and move on to the next media generated little drama.

Be fair though, the credit crisis is a small price to pay for stopping
the newspapers inane whittering about Jade Goodie.

M J Carley wrote:

> In the referenced article, "Doki"  writes:
> 
> > What amazed me a while ago is that Germany are one of the world's
> > biggest exporters after China by value. Obviously they make Mercs
> > and BMWs and the like, but the little plastic bookends you get from
> > Ikea are made in Germany too, which proves that you can make cheap
> > shit in a western country at competitive rates, IMO.
> 
> And Germany has the biggest trade surplus in the world.

Helped by the fact that there's a culture of both saving & buying
German when they do spend.

On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 05:00:22 -0700 (PDT), Cane 
wrote:

snip>

>Maybe manufacturing won't be so fucking un fashionable now.
>
>I've just had to endure listening to some cunt of a minister on R4
>telling me how important manufacturing has always been to this
>government and that's why they've invested so much!

Building houses isn't manufacturing and even that's stopped now.

Eddie wrote:
> Nige wrote:
>>
>> What help would there be for us fucking business owners that pay the
>> fuckin g taxes to prop up the rest of the cunts?
>
> You've bought a brothel? When did that happen?


I wouldn't worry about it, he will have niged it out before he can write the 
reply

-- 
Monz
K7 GSX-R 1000
ANORAK#16  |  BOTAFOT #135 | BREast#2 | MIRTTH#25 | BoB#16 | IBB#11 |
<shameless plug> - www.thecall-live.co.uk

Monz wrote:
> Eddie wrote:
>> Nige wrote:
>>> What help would there be for us fucking business owners that pay the
>>> fuckin g taxes to prop up the rest of the cunts?
>> You've bought a brothel? When did that happen?
> 
> 
> I wouldn't worry about it, he will have niged it out before he can write the 
> reply

"Regularly serviced"

-- 
Mike H
GSX750F

"Simian"  wrote in message 
news:KYWdnQM6XP685H_VnZ2dnUVZ_t3inZ2d@supernews.com...
>M J Carley wrote:
>
>> In the referenced article, "Doki"  writes:
>>
>> > What amazed me a while ago is that Germany are one of the world's
>> > biggest exporters after China by value. Obviously they make Mercs
>> > and BMWs and the like, but the little plastic bookends you get from
>> > Ikea are made in Germany too, which proves that you can make cheap
>> > shit in a western country at competitive rates, IMO.
>>
>> And Germany has the biggest trade surplus in the world.
>
> Helped by the fact that there's a culture of both saving & buying
> German when they do spend.

TBH, you would buy German if you were a German, purely down to the fact that 
most of the stuff they make is good. I sometimes go out of my way to buy 
English made stuff when it's of superior quality (shoes, Sheffield knives 
etc.), but I'd certainly never have gone out of my way to buy something 
shite like a Rover.

On 30 Sep, 17:52, Bear  wrote:

> [1] In my family, "Uncle Ned" became rhyming slang for "dead", as in
> "the dog's Uncle Ned".  This worked well until my Uncle Ned died and my
> granddad told me, with great solemnity ... "son, it's ... it's your
> Uncle Ned ... he's Uncle Ned" ... there then followed a sort of mini
> "Who's on first" conversation ("er ... yes ... I know that" ... "no,
> he's *Uncle Ned*!" ... "yes!  I know that!") before the penny dropped
> about 30 seconds later, but by then we were too busy laughing

Random.

On 30 Sep, 18:17, ginge  wrote:

> >> Whaaaaaa? Where, persactly? It's taken this long for the penny to drop
> >> that moving everything to China wasn't such a good idea after all? Maybe
> >> now we'll be able to mow down all those new housing estates built on top
> >> of old factories and build up some proper industry again.
>
> >heh, fat chance.
>
> >The minute the headlines change, everyone will forget today's lessons
> >and move on to the next media generated little drama.
>
> Be fair though, the credit crisis is a small price to pay for stopping
> the newspapers inane whittering about Jade Goodie.

hah, every cloud.

On 30 Sep, 19:29, Andy Bonwick  wrote:

> >Maybe manufacturing won't be so fucking un fashionable now.
>
> >I've just had to endure listening to some cunt of a minister on R4
> >telling me how important manufacturing has always been to this
> >government and that's why they've invested so much!
>
> Building houses isn't manufacturing and even that's stopped now.

Since houses are both built and bought on credit, I'm hardly surprised.

On Wed, 1 Oct 2008 01:39:19 -0700 (PDT), Cane 
wrote:

>On 30 Sep, 19:29, Andy Bonwick  wrote:
>
>> >Maybe manufacturing won't be so fucking un fashionable now.
>>
>> >I've just had to endure listening to some cunt of a minister on R4
>> >telling me how important manufacturing has always been to this
>> >government and that's why they've invested so much!
>>
>> Building houses isn't manufacturing and even that's stopped now.
>
>Since houses are both built and bought on credit, I'm hardly surprised.

Yebbut - pretty much all large capital items are produced on credit,
and then bought with credit. 
-- 
Champ

Two standard issue crutches
To email me, neal at my domain should work.

On 1 Oct, 10:39, Champ  wrote:

> >> >Maybe manufacturing won't be so fucking un fashionable now.
>
> >> >I've just had to endure listening to some cunt of a minister on R4
> >> >telling me how important manufacturing has always been to this
> >> >government and that's why they've invested so much!
>
> >> Building houses isn't manufacturing and even that's stopped now.
>
> >Since houses are both built and bought on credit, I'm hardly surprised.
>
> Yebbut - pretty much all large capital items are produced on credit,
> and then bought with credit.

Indeed but I don't believe for a moment that the banks will stop
lending money to companies for capital investment. They'll just charge
more to do it.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "Doki"  saying
something like:

>TBH, you would buy German if you were a German, purely down to the fact that 
>most of the stuff they make is good. I sometimes go out of my way to buy 
>English made stuff when it's of superior quality (shoes, Sheffield knives 
>etc.), but I'd certainly never have gone out of my way to buy something 
>shite like a Rover. 

Yebbut, any time in the past two decades you could have bought a similar
Toyota. Made in Sunderland [1] and terrifically reliable. Everything a
small to medium Rover should have been, really.

Feck, I'm still impressed with my SOJC and it's 19 years old.

[1] Ok, profits go back to Japan afaik, but thousands of British workers
employed.
-- 
Dave
GS850x2 XS650 SE6a

"It's a moron working with power tools.
 How much more suspenseful can you get?"
 - House

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
> We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
> drugs began to take hold. I remember "Doki"  saying
> something like:
> 
> >TBH, you would buy German if you were a German, purely down to the fact that 
> >most of the stuff they make is good. I sometimes go out of my way to buy 
> >English made stuff when it's of superior quality (shoes, Sheffield knives 
> >etc.), but I'd certainly never have gone out of my way to buy something 
> >shite like a Rover. 
> 
> Yebbut, any time in the past two decades you could have bought a similar
> Toyota. Made in Sunderland [1] and terrifically reliable. Everything a
> small to medium Rover should have been, really.

Er, Sunderland is home to Nissan. Toyota are based around Derby, no?

-- 
ogden

GSXR750 K4
RGV250 VJ22

ogden wrote:

> Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

> > Yebbut, any time in the past two decades you could have bought a
> > similar Toyota. Made in Sunderland [1] and terrifically reliable.
> > Everything a small to medium Rover should have been, really.
> 
> Er, Sunderland is home to Nissan. Toyota are based around Derby, no?

Washington, Tyne and Wear is where Nissan are based, ITYF. Toyota are
indeed in Derby, on the A38 just by the A50 junction. If someone liked
the look of the Rover but wanted something a bit better, there was
always the Honda option, made in Swindon.

That said, once the initial problems were sorted with my old P regd
216SLi it proved to be extremely reliable for the next 8 years, until
my ex decided to run it for a week with no water in the rad when she
managed to acquire a hole in it. Needless to say the engine was trashed
and the car ended up getting scrapped.

-- 
Lozzo
SV650S K5, CBR600F-W, SR250 SpazzTrakka
and a shit load more 2-wheeled junk in the garage
I believe in free speech, but I still have to pay my phone bill

On Wed, 1 Oct 2008 17:39:08 +0100 in uk.rec.motorcycles, ogden says:

>Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
>> 
>> Yebbut, any time in the past two decades you could have bought a similar
>> Toyota. Made in Sunderland [1] and terrifically reliable. Everything a
>> small to medium Rover should have been, really.
>
>Er, Sunderland is home to Nissan. Toyota are based around Derby, no?

It's all north of the M4 and therefore is just part of the frozen
wastelands.

-- 
Ian
A man with his hands in pockets feels foolish

Lozzo wrote:
> ogden wrote:
> 
> > Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
> 
> > > Yebbut, any time in the past two decades you could have bought a
> > > similar Toyota. Made in Sunderland [1] and terrifically reliable.
> > > Everything a small to medium Rover should have been, really.
> > 
> > Er, Sunderland is home to Nissan. Toyota are based around Derby, no?
> 
> Washington, Tyne and Wear is where Nissan are based, ITYF.

They all answer to Paris now anyway. I've managed thus far to avoid 
visiting them up north, and only narrowly escaped a trip to France by 
virtue of being on holiday at the time.

-- 
ogden

GSXR750 K4
RGV250 VJ22

ogden  wrote:

> Lozzo wrote:
> > ogden wrote:
> > 
> > > Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
> > 
> > > > Yebbut, any time in the past two decades you could have bought a
> > > > similar Toyota. Made in Sunderland [1] and terrifically reliable.
> > > > Everything a small to medium Rover should have been, really.
> > > 
> > > Er, Sunderland is home to Nissan. Toyota are based around Derby, no?
> > 
> > Washington, Tyne and Wear is where Nissan are based, ITYF.
> 
> They all answer to Paris now anyway. I

Yerss. Which is why the final iteration of the Primera - which I bought
- was such shite.

"Hey, with a Nissan/Renault tie-up, you'll have that French styling and
design flair plus Japanese reliability!'

What you got was Japanese styling plus French unreliability and
electrics. Plus the build quality you'd expect from a bunch of
Geordies[1].

That said, mine has at least been reliable for the last 15 months, but
the first three years (all under warranty) were awful.

You'd have thought Nissan would have known better, after the tie-up with
Alfa Romeo that resulted in the Arna (and who remembers that?), but
no...

[1] For the record: in the first three years it had a new back seat (the
original fell apart), new sensors, innumerable engine "software
updates", a new steering wheel wiring harness, a whole new rear screen,
a new handbrake system, new ECU, modified EGR valve, and a new turbo
unit after the original went POP! at 45k miles.

-- 
BMW K1100LT  Ducati 750SS  Yamaha XT600E  Honda CB400F
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
"What you're proposing to do will involve a lot of time
and hassle for no tangible benefit."

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember ogden  saying
something like:

>> Yebbut, any time in the past two decades you could have bought a similar
>> Toyota. Made in Sunderland [1] and terrifically reliable. Everything a
>> small to medium Rover should have been, really.
>
>Er, Sunderland is home to Nissan. Toyota are based around Derby, no?

True enough.
I recall when the first UK-made ones came onto the market and nobody
could tell they weren't made in Japan. Not surprising really, as Nissan
and Toyota went to great lengths to make it so - including not hiring
knobs.
-- 
Dave
GS850x2 XS650 SE6a

"It's a moron working with power tools.
 How much more suspenseful can you get?"
 - House

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

> We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
> drugs began to take hold. I remember ogden  saying
> something like:
> 
> >> Yebbut, any time in the past two decades you could have bought a
> similar >> Toyota. Made in Sunderland [1] and terrifically reliable.
> Everything a >> small to medium Rover should have been, really.
> > 
> > Er, Sunderland is home to Nissan. Toyota are based around Derby, no?
> 
> True enough.
> I recall when the first UK-made ones came onto the market and nobody
> could tell they weren't made in Japan. Not surprising really, as
> Nissan and Toyota went to great lengths to make it so - including not
> hiring knobs.

The two British made Nissans[1] I've owned have both been very well
screwed together and belied their 100K plus mileages. Both have been
100% reliable despite a minimum of maintenance and heaps of abuse.

[1] 1989 Bluebird and current 1995 Micra.

-- 
Lozzo
SV650S K5, CBR600F-W, SR250 SpazzTrakka
and a shit load more 2-wheeled junk in the garage
I believe in free speech, but I still have to pay my phone bill

The Older Gentleman  wrote:

> You'd have thought Nissan would have known better, after the tie-up with
> Alfa Romeo that resulted in the Arna (and who remembers that?), but
> no...

<waves>

Jap styling and Italian reliability. Awesomely shit.
-- 
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
www.italiancar.co.uk - Alfa 156 TSpark Sportwagon Veloce Selespeed
Alfa 156 TSpark Lusso - Alfa 75 TSpark Lusso - Ducati 750SS

Wicked Uncle Nigel wrote:
> My Shite Old Dad, life-long Commie[1] that he is, is of the opinion that 
> the current situation marks the inevitable collapse of Capitalism, as 
> predicted by Marx.
> 
> I find myself increasingly unable to refute this position.
> 
> Discuss.
> 
> [1] As in, was a (young) participant in The Battle Of Cable Street.

Probably not as bad as we it sounds.  What are they trying to get 
through at the moment?  $700,000,000,000 bail out divided by 300,000,000 
Americans = $2,333 a head, or probably about $4-5k per tax payer.  From 
what I understand each UK tax payer is down by £1,000 for Northern Rock, 
let alone B&B.

If the system had been heavily regulated you'd have probably paid that 
£1,000 in fees etc.  As it happens we're just paying it in tax now.

Still the money could have gone into health care, removing guns off 
their streets, helping their poor... but that's just commie speak.

Tim B

"Grimly Curmudgeon"  wrote in message 
news:gc0722$u5k$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
> drugs began to take hold. I remember "Doki"  saying
> something like:
>
>>TBH, you would buy German if you were a German, purely down to the fact 
>>that
>>most of the stuff they make is good. I sometimes go out of my way to buy
>>English made stuff when it's of superior quality (shoes, Sheffield knives
>>etc.), but I'd certainly never have gone out of my way to buy something
>>shite like a Rover.
>
> Yebbut, any time in the past two decades you could have bought a similar
> Toyota. Made in Sunderland [1] and terrifically reliable. Everything a
> small to medium Rover should have been, really.
>
> Feck, I'm still impressed with my SOJC and it's 19 years old.
>
> [1] Ok, profits go back to Japan afaik, but thousands of British workers
> employed.

Yebbut picking cars from the past two decades (and that's my usual hunting 
ground for second hand shite) and if I want something interesting, I buy a 
MK2 Golf GTI. It's also got the advantage of pretty tidy as well as being a 
reliable car. If I want something very cheap to buy and comfy, I buy an old 
Citroen. I run a 406 as a day to day car as one came up very cheaply, but my 
first choice was an A4 or Passat for the daily dullness.

"Lozzo"  wrote in message 
news:6khofiF80c8dU1@mid.individual.net...
> ogden wrote:
>
>> Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
>
>> > Yebbut, any time in the past two decades you could have bought a
>> > similar Toyota. Made in Sunderland [1] and terrifically reliable.
>> > Everything a small to medium Rover should have been, really.
>>
>> Er, Sunderland is home to Nissan. Toyota are based around Derby, no?
>
> Toyota are
> indeed in Derby, on the A38 just by the A50 junction.

We studied Toyota a little at school - we used to have field trips there 
until some tit pissed them off. Anyway, you ring in sick, and a Toyota 
ambulance comes round, takes you to the Toyota clinic and the Toyota doctor 
has a look at you. And they take one of the lasses off reception to go and 
do your job on the line.