what about feeding the 5k with 5 barley loaves an 2 fishes?

"sleepalot"  wrote in message
news:1182470382.664841.289980@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 21, 8:56 am, Polly  wrote:
> [ng list reduced]
> >
> > Didn't Jesus eat fish?
> > It's an interesting question,...
>
> Which you didn't even attempt to answer.
>
> Supposedly "Jesus" said "I am a fisher of men", so clearly he was a
> cannibal.
>

On Sat, 25 Aug 2007 21:20:34 GMT, "matthew walker"
 wrote:

>"sleepalot"  wrote in message
>news:1182470382.664841.289980@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>> On Jun 21, 8:56 am, Polly  wrote:
>>>Frequently Asked Questions
>>>Isn’t eating fish good for your health?
>>>Fish absorb all the contamination from the water they live in, so fish flesh is laced with toxins such as mercury,
>>> lead, arsenic, PCBs, pesticides, and even industrial strength fire-retardant. 
>>>Just two servings of fish per week can elevate your blood mercury levels by 
>>>700 percent, and study after study has linked fish consumption to fatigue, 
>>>memory loss, and decreased mental function. Click here for the facts about fish flesh and your health.
>>>
>>>So what does the fish industry have to say for itself? It ignores the fact that fish 
>>>flesh is toxic (the breast milk of some Inuit tribes is so concentrated with poisons 
>>>from their fish diet that it meets the Environmental Protection Agency’s standards 
>>>for toxic waste) and points to small amounts of omega-3 fatty acids in fish.
>>> But you can get plenty of omega-3 fatty acids in nuts and leafy 
>>>green vegetables … without losing your mind. 
>>>
>>>What’s wrong with catch-and-release fishing?
>>>Have you ever seen an injured dog who has been hit by a car or a cat who’s been 
>>>seriously hurt in a fight? Unless they are treated by a veterinarian, these animals 
>>>are likely to die from their injuries. Fish are no different: 
>>>A hook through the mouth causes a serious and extremely painful injury 
>>>that is often fatal without treatment. But anglers just toss injured 
>>>fish back into the water—often without realizing what they’ve done.
>>>
>>>In addition to the wounds that are caused by the hook, fish released after 
>>>being caught can suffer from loss of their protective scale coating, 
>>>dangerous build-up of lactic acid in their muscles, oxygen depletion, 
>>>and damage to their delicate fins and mouths. 
>>>Upon being returned to the water, these fish are easy targets for predators 
>>>and other fishers. Researchers at the Oklahoma Department 
>>>of Wildlife Conservation found that as many as 43 percent of 
>>>fish released after being caught died within six days. 
>>>Catching fish is cruel and unnecessary, whether they 
>>>are killed on the spot or thrown back into the water, injured and exhausted. 
>>>
>>>Didn’t Jesus eat fish?
>>>It’s an interesting question, but Biblical scholars agree that the appropriate 
>>>question for Christians is, “What should we be eating?” 
>>>The Bible clearly says that our bodies are temples and that 
>>>we should take care of them. Yet it’s a fact that all fish flesh today
>>> is contaminated with heavy metals and other toxins.
>>> In fact, fish flesh is just about the most polluted thing that
>>> humans put into their bodies. On that basis alone, 
>>>Christians should not be eating it.
>>>
>>>Today’s fishing practices are also horribly cruel to God’s creatures. 
>>>God cares for all His creatures, and the Bible counsels compassion for 
>>>all beings. We all understand that it is immoral and contrary to 
>>>Christian mercy to torture dogs and cats. It is equally unchristian to
>>> torture and kill (or pay others to torture and kill) fish and other animals. 
>>>Although they may not be able to scream out in pain, fish have the 
>>>same capacity for suffering and the same right to compassion as all living beings.
>>>
>>>For more frequently asked questions about vegetarianism, click here.
>>>
>>>For more frequently asked questions about other issues, click here.
>>>
>>>Ask Carla, PETA’s kindness consultant.
>

>> > Didn't Jesus eat fish?
>> > It's an interesting question,...
>>
>> Which you didn't even attempt to answer.
>>
>> Supposedly "Jesus" said "I am a fisher of men", so clearly he was a
>> cannibal.
>>
>

>what about feeding the 5k with 5 barley loaves an 2 fishes?

http://www.vegsoc.org.au/religion_jesus.asp

What Would Jesus Eat...Today 

As Christians, we hold that the ethical principles Jesus taught, such
as love, compassion, humility, and charity, are eternal. We believe
that, if Jesus were among us today and witnessed the wastefulness,
environmental destructiveness, human health hazards, and animal
mistreatment inherent in modern animal agriculture's methods, he would
choose to abstain. 

Is vegetarianism biblical? 
The Bible depicts vegetarianism as an ideal, with a peaceful,
vegetarian world at the Creation and at the end of time. God found
everything in Eden "very good" immediately after giving all animals
(and humans) a vegetarian diet (Genesis 1:29-30). Several prophecies,
such as Isaiah 11:6-9, foresee a return to this vegetarian world,
where the wolf, lamb, lion, cow, bear, snake, and little child all
co-exist peacefully. Christian vegetarians believe we should strive
towards the peaceful world Isaiah envisions; to try, in our own
limited ways, to follow Christ's mission, expressed in the Lord's
Prayer: "Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven" (Matthew 6:10,
RSV). 

What are vegetarianism's benefits? 
World Hunger 
Jesus preached, "For I was hungry and you gave me food...as you did it
to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me" (Matthew
25:35, 40). Yet, while many millions die of hunger annually and many
more suffer malnutrition, worldwide one-third of all grain is fed to
animals being raised for slaughter; in the U.S., the proportion is
nearly three-fourths. Converting grains to meat wastes about 90% of
grains' proteins, 96% of their calories, and 100% of their
carbohydrates and fiber (Keith Akers, A Vegetarian Sourcebook). It is
ironic that vegetarians, who are often accused of caring more about
animals than humans, encourage a diet that helps feed humans, not
animals. 

Your Health 
The Bible describes God's concern for humankind, and it follows that
we should choose diets that help preserve human life. A pure
vegetarian diet cuts cancer risk by about 40% (Cancer Res.
1975;35(suppl):3513-22), dramatically reduces heart disease risk (Dr.
Neal Barnard, Food for Life), and helps people lose weight (Barnard,
Turn Off the Fat Genes). Indeed, Paul says, "Do you not know that your
body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, which you have from
God?" (1 Corinthians 6:19). 

The Earth 
God instructed Adam to "till" and "keep" the Garden of Eden (Genesis
2:15), and by analogy we may see our task as to care for the rest of
Creation. In the U.S., it takes far more energy, water, and other
resources to feed a meat-eater than a vegetarian. By helping preserve
scarce resources and minimizing environmental degradation,
vegetarianism shows respect for Creation. 

Animal Welfare 
Jesus said that God feeds the birds of the air (Matthew 6:26) and does
not forget sparrows (Luke 12:6). The Hebrew writings forbid inhumane
slaughter or cruelty towards beasts of burden (Exodus 23:5,
Deuteronomy 22:6-7, 25:4). In the U.S., nearly all animal foods are
derived from intensive, "factory farms." Animals suffer greatly from
stressful crowding, barren environments that frustrate their
instinctive drives, and manipulations without anesthesia, such as
debeaking chicks, cutting off pigs' tails, and castrating and branding
cattle (Erik Marcus, Vegan: The New ethics of Eating). 

Farmers routinely use antibiotics to prevent infections in crowded,
stressed animals, and this promotes dangerous antibiotic-resistance
among bacteria. You can prevent infections by cooking meat, but this
generates cancer-causing heterocyclic amines. Farmers also add
hormones, harmful to human health, to stimulate excessive muscle
development in animals, causing painful lameness. Slaughter typically
involves terror and, often, great pain (Gail Eisnitz, Slaughterhouse).

Didn't God put animals here for our use? 
Adam's "dominion" over animals (Genesis 1:26, 28), we believe, conveys
sacred stewardship, since God then prescribed a vegetarian diet
(Genesis 1:29-30) in a world God found "very good" (1:31). Genesis
2:18-19 relates, "Then the Lord God said, ?It is not good that man
should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him'" and God then
created animals. According to this passage, animals were made as
Adam's companions and helpers, certainly not his supper. 

Didn't God give people permission to eat meat? 
Genesis 9:2-4 describes God giving Noah permission to eat meat, but
this may have been because all plants were destroyed by the Flood and
does not demonstrate that meat-eating is God's highest ideal.
Similarly, there is no prohibition of slavery in the Bible, though it
clearly does not agree with the highest biblical ideal. Throughout the
Bible, people are encouraged to use their own free will to decide
whether or not they will behave according to God's highest ideal. 

Does God care for animals? 
Proverbs 12:10 teaches, "A righteous man has regard for the life of
his beast," while the Psalmist maintains that "The Lord is good to
all, and his compassion is over all he has made" (Psalms 145:9). 

The Bible describes God's concern for animals repeatedly (Matthew
10:29, 12:11-12, 18:12-14) and forbids cruelty (Deuteronomy 22:10,
25:4). Importantly, five times after the flood God makes a covenant
with animals as well as with humans. All creatures share in the
Sabbath rest (Exodus 20:10, Deuteronomy 5:14). The Bible describes
animals praising God (Psalms 148:7-10, 150:6), shows animals present
in eternity (Isaiah 65:25, Revelation 5:13) and affirms that God
preserves animals (Psalms 36:6, Ephesians 1:10, Colossians 1:20).
Animals and humans look to God for sustenance (Psalms 104:27-31,
147:9, Matthew 6:26, Luke 12:6) and deliverance (Jonah 3:7-9, Romans
8:18-23). 

Does vegetarianism equate human and animal life? 
Vegetarianism simply reflects respect for Creation. Jesus says, "Are
not five sparrows sold for two pennies? And not one of them is
forgotten before God.... Fear not; you are of more value than many
sparrows" (Luke 12:6-7). This passage relates that God values humans
more than animals, but God remains concerned about all creatures. We
can have compassion for animals, and allow them to live full and
normal lives, without equating human and animal life. 

What about animal sacrifices? 
There are many different opinions on this question's answer, even
among Christian vegetarians. Some believe that God accepted sacrifices
at an earlier and more primitive time, but that sacrifices are
certainly not required or even desired now, since Jesus' death atoned
for our sins in a very final way. Others question whether God ever
desired sacrifices; several prophets, including Isaiah, Jeremiah,
Micah, Amos, and Hosea, objected to sacrifice, often emphasizing that
God prefers righteousness. Indeed, Jesus twice quoted Hosea (6:6),
saying, "I desire mercy and not sacrifice" (Matthew 9:13, 12:7).
Importantly, unlike sacrificed animals, Jesus chose to sacrifice
himself to fulfill God's will. Christians, being a new creation in
Christ, may model Christ by choosing a loving relationship with all
creation, which sometimes requires self-sacrifice. 

Didn't Jesus eat meat? 
Luke 24:43 relates that Jesus ate fish. However, many Christian
vegetarians believe that Jesus would be a vegetarian today. 

What about the passage in which Peter is instructed to "kill and eat"
all creatures (Acts 10:13, 11:7)? 
Many Christians, reading on, find that this passage is not a literal
instruction to consume flesh. Peter, pondering this vision's meaning,
concluded, "God has shown me that I should not call any man common or
unclean" (Acts 10:28). However one interprets this passage, it does
not require that we consume meat today. 

Should we accept meat as a gift, given that 1 Timothy 4:4 says,
"everything created by God is good"? 
Paul also condoned meat-eating nearly 2000 years ago in 1 Corinthians
10:25, but modern animal agriculture is a human creation, and it harms
humans, animals, and the Earth. 

Have nonvegetarian Christian saints and leaders been immoral? 
We should not judge those who may have eaten meat, owned slaves, or
done other things that we believe are not God's highest ideals for
humankind. We should simply do the best we can to express Christ's
love, compassion, and peace. Throughout history, many people, in
ignorance, have done hurtful things while concurrently showing great
love and compassion in other ways. 

Have there been many vegetarian Christians? 
Many Christians have received the Gospel as encouraging vegetarianism.
Several early Christian groups, including the Nazarenes, Ebionites,
Elchasaites, Ossaeans, Cathars, and the Bogomils, encouraged
vegetarianism. Since then, the Trappist, Benedictine, and Carthusian
orders have advocated vegetarianism, as have Seventh-day Adventists.
In the 19th century, members of the Bible Christian sect established
the first vegetarian groups in England and the U.S. 

Vegetarian Christians have included Basil the Great, John Chrysostom,
Tertullian, Origen, Clement of Alexandria, John Wesley (Methodism's
founder), Ellen G. White (a Seventh-day Adventists founder), Salvation
Army co-founders William and Catherine Booth, Leo Tolstoy, and Albert
Schweitzer. 

Why aren't more Christians vegetarians? 
The most important reason is lack of awareness. If everyone saw the
rough treatment, crowded conditions, and general misery of animals on
factory farms, and then looked into the terrified eyes of animals at
slaughterhouses, many more would become vegetarians. Some might still
eat meat, but even then it would be because they didn't recognize the
suffering or they incorrectly believed that meat is "necessary" for
good health. Other effects of modern animal agriculture, such as
resource depletion and the consequent environmental damage, are not so
readily apparent. 

Don't laws ensure farm animal welfare? 
In many countries, including the U.S., animals on farms are
specifically exempted from all humane legislation. At the
slaughterhouse, "humane slaughter" laws are weak and poorly enforced. 

Instead of advocating vegetarianism, shouldn't we seek reforms? 
There are many ways to promote compassion, and many vegetarians are
seeking reforms. While we carry out whatever public mission we feel is
appropriate, we believe that people should be aware of the many
negative effects of animal-based diet and agriculture, and we feel
compelled to be vegetarians ourselves. 

Would animals overrun the earth if everyone became vegetarian? 
No. There are many species we don't eat, and they haven't overrun the
earth. Human exploitation of the earth, in part to feed vast
quantities of grain to livestock, is the chief reason for the
environmental crisis. 

As the demand for animal-derived foods gradually decreases, fewer
animals will be bred. In the unlikely event that many animals needed
homes, compassionate people would find compassionate solutions. Such
people already care for formerly farmed animals (see
http://www.farmsanctuary.org). 

What would happen to butchers, cattle ranchers, and others who depend
on animal agriculture for a livelihood? 
The abolition of slavery was difficult for former slaveholders; in a
similar way, those dependent on animal agriculture may experience
hardship when the world finally realizes that vegetarianism is
necessary and desirable. Fortunately, job displacement will be
minimal, because farm employment is already low and new markets for
nonanimal foods will grow as demand for meat falls. If necessary,
retraining or even outright support for those inconvenienced by this
transition might be appropriate. 

Why should we be so concerned about animals when there are so many
critical problems related to people today? 
Virtually all contemporary social problems are interconnected. Indeed,
vegetarianism expresses compassion towards humans as well as animals,
since it results in healthier people, helps feed the hungry, and
promotes a cleaner, more sustainable environment. 

Since animals eat each other, what's wrong with humans eating animals?
What animals do should not dictate human morality. Other animals may
have to eat each other to live, but humans have a choice. We believe
that vegetarianism expresses the love, compassion, and peace of
Christ. 

Are humans naturally predators and therefore carnivores? 
While humans can digest flesh, and it is likely that our ancestors did
consume small amounts of meat, our anatomy much more strongly
resembles that of plant-eating creatures. For example: like herbivores
(but unlike carnivores), our colons are long and complex (not simple
and short); our intestines are 10-11 times longer than our bodies (not
3-6 times longer); our saliva contains digestive enzymes (unlike
carnivores); our dental incisors are broad, flattened, and
spade-shaped (not short and pointed); our canine teeth are short and
blunted (not long, sharp, and curved); our molars are flattened with
nodular cusps (not sharp blades like many carnivores); and our nails
are flattened (not sharp claws). 

The millions of healthy vegetarians (who tend to outlive
nonvegetarians) demonstrate that it is not necessary to eat meat. 

How would a Christian vegetarian celebrate holidays such as Easter,
Thanksgiving, and Christmas? 
Vegetarians celebrate these holidays fully and joyously without
consuming animals. Numerous cookbooks offer tasty vegetarian meals,
from quick and easy to complex and elegant. 

Should a Christian also abstain from eggs, milk, leather, wool, and
other animal products? 
A place to start is to become vegetarian. Then, we believe, Christians
should try to reduce their consumption of animal products as much as
possible. Vegetarians make a compassionate choice that expresses a
faith in God's creative goodness. Many vegetarians, aware of the
cruelties associated with other animal products, eventually choose not
to consume them. 

How can I witness to the peace of Christ through diet? 
We should always remember that Christians strive to follow Christ's
example of pure love and compassion, and most Christians would prefer
that their diets not hurt animals, squander scarce resources, and harm
their bodies. We need to show fellow Christians, in a loving and
compassionate way, that nonanimal foods are tasty, convenient, and
nutritious. The Christian Vegetarian Association's web site offers
many ideas on how to promote vegetarianism within your congregation. 

Christian Vegetarian Association 
witnessing to the love, compassion, and peace of Christ by adopting
and advocating a vegetarian diet 

Bibliography 

Keith Akers. The Lost Religion of Jesus. 
J.R. Hyland. God's Covenant with Animals. 
Andrew Linzey. Animal Gospel. 
George H. Malkmus. Why Christians Get Sick. 
Vesanto Melina et al. Becoming Vegetarian. 
Stephen H. Webb. Christian Vegetarianism; also, On God and Dogs. 
Richard Alan Young. Is God a Vegetarian? 


Web Sites
*All Creatures
http://www.all-creatures.org 
*Humane Religion
http://www.humanereligion.org
*Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine
http://www.pcrm.org
*Vegan Outreach (phone 412-968-0268) 
http://www.veganoutreach.org
*Christian Vegetarian Association
http://www.christianveg.com
*Compassionate Spirit 
http://www.compassionatespirit.com 
By Peter Milne(Click for profile)

On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 09:01:03 +0100, Gloria
 wrote:

>On Sat, 25 Aug 2007 21:20:34 GMT, "matthew walker"
> wrote:
>
>>"sleepalot"  wrote in message
>>news:1182470382.664841.289980@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Jun 21, 8:56 am, Polly  wrote:
>>>>Frequently Asked Questions
>>>>Isn’t eating fish good for your health?
>>>>Fish absorb all the contamination from the water they live in, so fish flesh is laced with toxins such as mercury,
>>>> lead, arsenic, PCBs, pesticides, and even industrial strength fire-retardant. 
>>>>Just two servings of fish per week can elevate your blood mercury levels by 
>>>>700 percent, and study after study has linked fish consumption to fatigue, 
>>>>memory loss, and decreased mental function. Click here for the facts about fish flesh and your health.
>>>>
>>>>So what does the fish industry have to say for itself? It ignores the fact that fish 
>>>>flesh is toxic (the breast milk of some Inuit tribes is so concentrated with poisons 
>>>>from their fish diet that it meets the Environmental Protection Agency’s standards 
>>>>for toxic waste) and points to small amounts of omega-3 fatty acids in fish.
>>>> But you can get plenty of omega-3 fatty acids in nuts and leafy 
>>>>green vegetables … without losing your mind. 
>>>>
>>>>What’s wrong with catch-and-release fishing?
>>>>Have you ever seen an injured dog who has been hit by a car or a cat who’s been 
>>>>seriously hurt in a fight? Unless they are treated by a veterinarian, these animals 
>>>>are likely to die from their injuries. Fish are no different: 
>>>>A hook through the mouth causes a serious and extremely painful injury 
>>>>that is often fatal without treatment. But anglers just toss injured 
>>>>fish back into the water—often without realizing what they’ve done.
>>>>
>>>>In addition to the wounds that are caused by the hook, fish released after 
>>>>being caught can suffer from loss of their protective scale coating, 
>>>>dangerous build-up of lactic acid in their muscles, oxygen depletion, 
>>>>and damage to their delicate fins and mouths. 
>>>>Upon being returned to the water, these fish are easy targets for predators 
>>>>and other fishers. Researchers at the Oklahoma Department 
>>>>of Wildlife Conservation found that as many as 43 percent of 
>>>>fish released after being caught died within six days. 
>>>>Catching fish is cruel and unnecessary, whether they 
>>>>are killed on the spot or thrown back into the water, injured and exhausted. 
>>>>
>>>>Didn’t Jesus eat fish?
>>>>It’s an interesting question, but Biblical scholars agree that the appropriate 
>>>>question for Christians is, “What should we be eating?” 
>>>>The Bible clearly says that our bodies are temples and that 
>>>>we should take care of them. Yet it’s a fact that all fish flesh today
>>>> is contaminated with heavy metals and other toxins.
>>>> In fact, fish flesh is just about the most polluted thing that
>>>> humans put into their bodies. On that basis alone, 
>>>>Christians should not be eating it.
>>>>
>>>>Today’s fishing practices are also horribly cruel to God’s creatures. 
>>>>God cares for all His creatures, and the Bible counsels compassion for 
>>>>all beings. We all understand that it is immoral and contrary to 
>>>>Christian mercy to torture dogs and cats. It is equally unchristian to
>>>> torture and kill (or pay others to torture and kill) fish and other animals. 
>>>>Although they may not be able to scream out in pain, fish have the 
>>>>same capacity for suffering and the same right to compassion as all living beings.
>>>>
>>>>For more frequently asked questions about vegetarianism, click here.
>>>>
>>>>For more frequently asked questions about other issues, click here.
>>>>
>>>>Ask Carla, PETA’s kindness consultant.
>>
>
>>> > Didn't Jesus eat fish?
>>> > It's an interesting question,...
>>>
>>> Which you didn't even attempt to answer.
>>>
>>> Supposedly "Jesus" said "I am a fisher of men", so clearly he was a
>>> cannibal.
>>>
>>
>
>>what about feeding the 5k with 5 barley loaves an 2 fishes?
>
>http://www.vegsoc.org.au/religion_jesus.asp
>
>What Would Jesus Eat...Today 
>
>As Christians, we hold that the ethical principles Jesus taught, such
>as love, compassion, humility, and charity, are eternal. We believe
>that, if Jesus were among us today and witnessed the wastefulness,
>environmental destructiveness, human health hazards, and animal
>mistreatment inherent in modern animal agriculture's methods, he would
>choose to abstain. 
>
>Is vegetarianism biblical? 
>The Bible depicts vegetarianism as an ideal, with a peaceful,
>vegetarian world at the Creation and at the end of time. God found
>everything in Eden "very good" immediately after giving all animals
>(and humans) a vegetarian diet (Genesis 1:29-30). Several prophecies,
>such as Isaiah 11:6-9, foresee a return to this vegetarian world,
>where the wolf, lamb, lion, cow, bear, snake, and little child all
>co-exist peacefully. Christian vegetarians believe we should strive
>towards the peaceful world Isaiah envisions; to try, in our own
>limited ways, to follow Christ's mission, expressed in the Lord's
>Prayer: "Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven" (Matthew 6:10,
>RSV). 
>
>What are vegetarianism's benefits? 
>World Hunger 
>Jesus preached, "For I was hungry and you gave me food...as you did it
>to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me" (Matthew
>25:35, 40). Yet, while many millions die of hunger annually and many
>more suffer malnutrition, worldwide one-third of all grain is fed to
>animals being raised for slaughter; in the U.S., the proportion is
>nearly three-fourths. Converting grains to meat wastes about 90% of
>grains' proteins, 96% of their calories, and 100% of their
>carbohydrates and fiber (Keith Akers, A Vegetarian Sourcebook). It is
>ironic that vegetarians, who are often accused of caring more about
>animals than humans, encourage a diet that helps feed humans, not
>animals. 
>
>Your Health 
>The Bible describes God's concern for humankind, and it follows that
>we should choose diets that help preserve human life. A pure
>vegetarian diet cuts cancer risk by about 40% (Cancer Res.
>1975;35(suppl):3513-22), dramatically reduces heart disease risk (Dr.
>Neal Barnard, Food for Life), and helps people lose weight (Barnard,
>Turn Off the Fat Genes). Indeed, Paul says, "Do you not know that your
>body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, which you have from
>God?" (1 Corinthians 6:19). 
>
>The Earth 
>God instructed Adam to "till" and "keep" the Garden of Eden (Genesis
>2:15), and by analogy we may see our task as to care for the rest of
>Creation. In the U.S., it takes far more energy, water, and other
>resources to feed a meat-eater than a vegetarian. By helping preserve
>scarce resources and minimizing environmental degradation,
>vegetarianism shows respect for Creation. 
>
>Animal Welfare 
>Jesus said that God feeds the birds of the air (Matthew 6:26) and does
>not forget sparrows (Luke 12:6). The Hebrew writings forbid inhumane
>slaughter or cruelty towards beasts of burden (Exodus 23:5,
>Deuteronomy 22:6-7, 25:4). In the U.S., nearly all animal foods are
>derived from intensive, "factory farms." Animals suffer greatly from
>stressful crowding, barren environments that frustrate their
>instinctive drives, and manipulations without anesthesia, such as
>debeaking chicks, cutting off pigs' tails, and castrating and branding
>cattle (Erik Marcus, Vegan: The New ethics of Eating). 
>
>Farmers routinely use antibiotics to prevent infections in crowded,
>stressed animals, and this promotes dangerous antibiotic-resistance
>among bacteria. You can prevent infections by cooking meat, but this
>generates cancer-causing heterocyclic amines. Farmers also add
>hormones, harmful to human health, to stimulate excessive muscle
>development in animals, causing painful lameness. Slaughter typically
>involves terror and, often, great pain (Gail Eisnitz, Slaughterhouse).
>
>Didn't God put animals here for our use? 
>Adam's "dominion" over animals (Genesis 1:26, 28), we believe, conveys
>sacred stewardship, since God then prescribed a vegetarian diet
>(Genesis 1:29-30) in a world God found "very good" (1:31). Genesis
>2:18-19 relates, "Then the Lord God said, ?It is not good that man
>should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him'" and God then
>created animals. According to this passage, animals were made as
>Adam's companions and helpers, certainly not his supper. 
>
>Didn't God give people permission to eat meat? 
>Genesis 9:2-4 describes God giving Noah permission to eat meat, but
>this may have been because all plants were destroyed by the Flood and
>does not demonstrate that meat-eating is God's highest ideal.
>Similarly, there is no prohibition of slavery in the Bible, though it
>clearly does not agree with the highest biblical ideal. Throughout the
>Bible, people are encouraged to use their own free will to decide
>whether or not they will behave according to God's highest ideal. 
>
>Does God care for animals? 
>Proverbs 12:10 teaches, "A righteous man has regard for the life of
>his beast," while the Psalmist maintains that "The Lord is good to
>all, and his compassion is over all he has made" (Psalms 145:9). 
>
>The Bible describes God's concern for animals repeatedly (Matthew
>10:29, 12:11-12, 18:12-14) and forbids cruelty (Deuteronomy 22:10,
>25:4). Importantly, five times after the flood God makes a covenant
>with animals as well as with humans. All creatures share in the
>Sabbath rest (Exodus 20:10, Deuteronomy 5:14). The Bible describes
>animals praising God (Psalms 148:7-10, 150:6), shows animals present
>in eternity (Isaiah 65:25, Revelation 5:13) and affirms that God
>preserves animals (Psalms 36:6, Ephesians 1:10, Colossians 1:20).
>Animals and humans look to God for sustenance (Psalms 104:27-31,
>147:9, Matthew 6:26, Luke 12:6) and deliverance (Jonah 3:7-9, Romans
>8:18-23). 
>
>Does vegetarianism equate human and animal life? 
>Vegetarianism simply reflects respect for Creation. Jesus says, "Are
>not five sparrows sold for two pennies? And not one of them is
>forgotten before God.... Fear not; you are of more value than many
>sparrows" (Luke 12:6-7). This passage relates that God values humans
>more than animals, but God remains concerned about all creatures. We
>can have compassion for animals, and allow them to live full and
>normal lives, without equating human and animal life. 
>
>What about animal sacrifices? 
>There are many different opinions on this question's answer, even
>among Christian vegetarians. Some believe that God accepted sacrifices
>at an earlier and more primitive time, but that sacrifices are
>certainly not required or even desired now, since Jesus' death atoned
>for our sins in a very final way. Others question whether God ever
>desired sacrifices; several prophets, including Isaiah, Jeremiah,
>Micah, Amos, and Hosea, objected to sacrifice, often emphasizing that
>God prefers righteousness. Indeed, Jesus twice quoted Hosea (6:6),
>saying, "I desire mercy and not sacrifice" (Matthew 9:13, 12:7).
>Importantly, unlike sacrificed animals, Jesus chose to sacrifice
>himself to fulfill God's will. Christians, being a new creation in
>Christ, may model Christ by choosing a loving relationship with all
>creation, which sometimes requires self-sacrifice. 
>
>Didn't Jesus eat meat? 
>Luke 24:43 relates that Jesus ate fish. However, many Christian
>vegetarians believe that Jesus would be a vegetarian today. 
>
>What about the passage in which Peter is instructed to "kill and eat"
>all creatures (Acts 10:13, 11:7)? 
>Many Christians, reading on, find that this passage is not a literal
>instruction to consume flesh. Peter, pondering this vision's meaning,
>concluded, "God has shown me that I should not call any man common or
>unclean" (Acts 10:28). However one interprets this passage, it does
>not require that we consume meat today. 
>
>Should we accept meat as a gift, given that 1 Timothy 4:4 says,
>"everything created by God is good"? 
>Paul also condoned meat-eating nearly 2000 years ago in 1 Corinthians
>10:25, but modern animal agriculture is a human creation, and it harms
>humans, animals, and the Earth. 
>
>Have nonvegetarian Christian saints and leaders been immoral? 
>We should not judge those who may have eaten meat, owned slaves, or
>done other things that we believe are not God's highest ideals for
>humankind. We should simply do the best we can to express Christ's
>love, compassion, and peace. Throughout history, many people, in
>ignorance, have done hurtful things while concurrently showing great
>love and compassion in other ways. 
>
>Have there been many vegetarian Christians? 
>Many Christians have received the Gospel as encouraging vegetarianism.
>Several early Christian groups, including the Nazarenes, Ebionites,
>Elchasaites, Ossaeans, Cathars, and the Bogomils, encouraged
>vegetarianism. Since then, the Trappist, Benedictine, and Carthusian
>orders have advocated vegetarianism, as have Seventh-day Adventists.
>In the 19th century, members of the Bible Christian sect established
>the first vegetarian groups in England and the U.S. 
>
>Vegetarian Christians have included Basil the Great, John Chrysostom,
>Tertullian, Origen, Clement of Alexandria, John Wesley (Methodism's
>founder), Ellen G. White (a Seventh-day Adventists founder), Salvation
>Army co-founders William and Catherine Booth, Leo Tolstoy, and Albert
>Schweitzer. 
>
>Why aren't more Christians vegetarians? 
>The most important reason is lack of awareness. If everyone saw the
>rough treatment, crowded conditions, and general misery of animals on
>factory farms, and then looked into the terrified eyes of animals at
>slaughterhouses, many more would become vegetarians. Some might still
>eat meat, but even then it would be because they didn't recognize the
>suffering or they incorrectly believed that meat is "necessary" for
>good health. Other effects of modern animal agriculture, such as
>resource depletion and the consequent environmental damage, are not so
>readily apparent. 
>
>Don't laws ensure farm animal welfare? 
>In many countries, including the U.S., animals on farms are
>specifically exempted from all humane legislation. At the
>slaughterhouse, "humane slaughter" laws are weak and poorly enforced. 
>
>Instead of advocating vegetarianism, shouldn't we seek reforms? 
>There are many ways to promote compassion, and many vegetarians are
>seeking reforms. While we carry out whatever public mission we feel is
>appropriate, we believe that people should be aware of the many
>negative effects of animal-based diet and agriculture, and we feel
>compelled to be vegetarians ourselves. 
>
>Would animals overrun the earth if everyone became vegetarian? 
>No. There are many species we don't eat, and they haven't overrun the
>earth. Human exploitation of the earth, in part to feed vast
>quantities of grain to livestock, is the chief reason for the
>environmental crisis. 
>
>As the demand for animal-derived foods gradually decreases, fewer
>animals will be bred. In the unlikely event that many animals needed
>homes, compassionate people would find compassionate solutions. Such
>people already care for formerly farmed animals (see
>http://www.farmsanctuary.org). 
>
>What would happen to butchers, cattle ranchers, and others who depend
>on animal agriculture for a livelihood? 
>The abolition of slavery was difficult for former slaveholders; in a
>similar way, those dependent on animal agriculture may experience
>hardship when the world finally realizes that vegetarianism is
>necessary and desirable. Fortunately, job displacement will be
>minimal, because farm employment is already low and new markets for
>nonanimal foods will grow as demand for meat falls. If necessary,
>retraining or even outright support for those inconvenienced by this
>transition might be appropriate. 
>
>Why should we be so concerned about animals when there are so many
>critical problems related to people today? 
>Virtually all contemporary social problems are interconnected. Indeed,
>vegetarianism expresses compassion towards humans as well as animals,
>since it results in healthier people, helps feed the hungry, and
>promotes a cleaner, more sustainable environment. 
>
>Since animals eat each other, what's wrong with humans eating animals?
>What animals do should not dictate human morality. Other animals may
>have to eat each other to live, but humans have a choice. We believe
>that vegetarianism expresses the love, compassion, and peace of
>Christ. 
>
>Are humans naturally predators and therefore carnivores? 
>While humans can digest flesh, and it is likely that our ancestors did
>consume small amounts of meat, our anatomy much more strongly
>resembles that of plant-eating creatures. For example: like herbivores
>(but unlike carnivores), our colons are long and complex (not simple
>and short); our intestines are 10-11 times longer than our bodies (not
>3-6 times longer); our saliva contains digestive enzymes (unlike
>carnivores); our dental incisors are broad, flattened, and
>spade-shaped (not short and pointed); our canine teeth are short and
>blunted (not long, sharp, and curved); our molars are flattened with
>nodular cusps (not sharp blades like many carnivores); and our nails
>are flattened (not sharp claws). 
>
>The millions of healthy vegetarians (who tend to outlive
>nonvegetarians) demonstrate that it is not necessary to eat meat. 
>
>How would a Christian vegetarian celebrate holidays such as Easter,
>Thanksgiving, and Christmas? 
>Vegetarians celebrate these holidays fully and joyously without
>consuming animals. Numerous cookbooks offer tasty vegetarian meals,
>from quick and easy to complex and elegant. 
>
>Should a Christian also abstain from eggs, milk, leather, wool, and
>other animal products? 
>A place to start is to become vegetarian. Then, we believe, Christians
>should try to reduce their consumption of animal products as much as
>possible. Vegetarians make a compassionate choice that expresses a
>faith in God's creative goodness. Many vegetarians, aware of the
>cruelties associated with other animal products, eventually choose not
>to consume them. 
>
>How can I witness to the peace of Christ through diet? 
>We should always remember that Christians strive to follow Christ's
>example of pure love and compassion, and most Christians would prefer
>that their diets not hurt animals, squander scarce resources, and harm
>their bodies. We need to show fellow Christians, in a loving and
>compassionate way, that nonanimal foods are tasty, convenient, and
>nutritious. The Christian Vegetarian Association's web site offers
>many ideas on how to promote vegetarianism within your congregation. 
>
>Christian Vegetarian Association 
>witnessing to the love, compassion, and peace of Christ by adopting
>and advocating a vegetarian diet 
>
>Bibliography 
>
>Keith Akers. The Lost Religion of Jesus. 
>J.R. Hyland. God's Covenant with Animals. 
>Andrew Linzey. Animal Gospel. 
>George H. Malkmus. Why Christians Get Sick. 
>Vesanto Melina et al. Becoming Vegetarian. 
>Stephen H. Webb. Christian Vegetarianism; also, On God and Dogs. 
>Richard Alan Young. Is God a Vegetarian? 
>
>
>Web Sites
>*All Creatures
>http://www.all-creatures.org 
>*Humane Religion
>http://www.humanereligion.org
>*Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine
>http://www.pcrm.org
>*Vegan Outreach (phone 412-968-0268) 
>http://www.veganoutreach.org
>*Christian Vegetarian Association
>http://www.christianveg.com
>*Compassionate Spirit 
>http://www.compassionatespirit.com 
>By Peter Milne(Click for profile)

"matthew walker"  wrote in message news:C21Ai.21920$mo.3952@newsfe4-win.ntli.net...
>
> what about feeding the 5k with 5 barley loaves an 2 fishes?

'Every church had its favored books, and since there was nothing
like a clearly-defined orthodoxy until the 4th century, there were
in fact many simultaneous literary traditions. The illusion that it
was otherwise is created by the fact that the church that came
out on top simply preserved texts in its favor and destroyed or
let vanish opposing documents.  Hence what we call "orthodoxy"
is simply "the church that won."
..
The second point that this presses upon us is that since the drive
to find canonical written texts was created by the need to
refute heretics, anti-heretical and other rhetoric influenced both
the selection of texts as well as the editing or writing of the texts
themselves.
.'
http://home.freeuk.com/jesusmyth/formatn.htm

KJV
Luke 9:12-17
12: Now the day began to wear away; and the twelve came and
said to him, "Send the crowd away, to go into the villages and
country round about, to lodge and get provisions; for we are
here in a lonely place."
13: But he said to them, "You give them something to eat."
They said, "We have no more than five loaves and two fish --
unless we are to go and buy food for all these people."
14: For there were about five thousand men. And he said to his
disciples, "Make them sit down in companies, about fifty each."
15: And they did so, and made them all sit down.
16: And taking the five loaves and the two fish he looked up
to heaven, and blessed and broke them, and gave them to the
disciples to set before the crowd.
17: And all ate and were satisfied. And they took up what was
left over, twelve baskets of broken pieces. '

'The Gospel of the Holy Twelve
Lection XXIX
..
 4. And the day was far spent, and his disciples came unto
him  and said, This is a desert place, and now the time is far
passed. Send them away, that they may go into the country
round about into the villages, and buy themselves bread, for
they have nothing to eat.
5. He answered and said unto them, Give ye them to eat.
And they say unto him, Shall we go and buy two hundred
pennyworth of bread, and give them to eat ?
6. He saith unto them, How many loaves have ye? go and see.
And when they knew, they said, Six loaves and seven clusters
of grapes. And he commanded them to make all sit down by
companies of fifty upon the grass. And they sat down in ranks
by hundreds and by fifties.
7. And when he had taken the six loaves and the seven clusters
of grapes, he looked up to heaven, and blessed and brake the
loaves, and the grapes also and gave them to his disciples to
set before them and they divided them among them all.
8. And they did all eat and were filled. And they took up twelve
baskets full of the fragments that were left. And they that did
eat of the loaves and of the fruit were about five thousand
men, women and children, and he taught them many things.
..'
http://reluctant-messenger.com/essene/gospel_3.htm#Lection290

John 19
8 Pilate also had an inscription written and put on the cross.
It read, "Jesus the Nazorean, the King of the Jews."
http://www.nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/john/john19.htm

'Versions of the word "Nazarene"
Matthew 2:23 uses the Greek word Nazoraios to refer to Jesus;
in English this has traditionally (e.g. in the King James Bible)
been translated as "Nazarene" (plural "Nazarenes"). However
Mark 1:24 refers to Jesus as Nazarenos; in English this has
traditionally (e.g. in the King James Bible) been translated as
"of Nazareth"; however, because the correct Greek form of
"of Nazareth" would be Nazarethenos or Nazarethaios, most
modern translators prefer "Nazarene" here as well. "Nazarene"
is also spelled in a variety of ways, including "Nazarean",
"Nasarean", "Nazorean", "Nasorean", "Nazaraean","Nasaraean"
(plural "Nazareans", "Nasareans", "Nazoreans", "Nasoreans",
"Nazaraeans", "Nasaraeans"). Modern groups which relate the
Greek words Nazoraios and Nazarenos to the Hebrew Netzer
(branch or shoot) prefer to use the transliteration Netzarim, the
plural form of Netzer. A common Arabic word for "Christian"
is Nasrani, believed to be derived from the same root as
Nazorean, ultimately Nozrim.
http://bibleocean.com/OmniDefinition/Nazarene

"The Nasaraeans - they were jews by nationality - originally
from Gileaditis (where the early followers of Yeshu-Maria fled
after the martyrdom of James the Lord's brother), Bashanitis
and the Transjordon . . . They acknowledged Moses and
believed that he had received laws - not this law, however, but
some other.  And so, they were jews who kept all the Jewish
observances, but they would not offer sacrifice or eat meat.
They considered it unlawful to eat meat or make sacrifices
with it. They claim that these Books are fictions, and that none
of these customs were instituted by the fathers. This was the
difference between the Nasaraeans and the others. . .
(Epiphanius, Panarion 1:18)
..
Nasaraeans, meaning, "rebels," who forbid all flesh-eating,
and do not eat living things at all. They have the holy names of
patriarchs which are in the Pentateuch, up through Moses and
Joshua the son of Nun, and they believe in them-(2) I mean
Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and the earliest ones, and Moses
himself, and Aaron, and Joshua. But they hold that the
scriptures of the Pentateuch were not written by Moses, and
maintain that they have others. (Epiphanius, Panarion 1:19)
..'
http://essenes.net/sz17.htm

Now That you have started cross posting new groups because have nothing
better to do!
If you are not vegan, you consume animal products, just because they are
diguised in ingreadents or are a by product e.g wearing leather - they are
still animal products from all of the so called cruel methods you have
stated previously.

If you are serious about gods creatures, don't drive - you may kill inscets,
don't use any pharmacuticle drugs, they are tested on animals. Look down
when you walk to ensure you dont step on any off gods creatures!. In fact
any form of public transport will kill gods creatures. There is no hierarchy
of life. you are a pathetic hypocrites, who can only resort to insults. If
you clean your teeth, wash you are killing gods creatures bacteria!

"Gloria"  wrote in message
news:aac2d3hhhp2a8ff36i6ks08uah7n11fmoc@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 25 Aug 2007 21:20:34 GMT, "matthew walker"
>  wrote:
>
> >"sleepalot"  wrote in message
> >news:1182470382.664841.289980@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> >> On Jun 21, 8:56 am, Polly  wrote:
> >>>Frequently Asked Questions
> >>>Isn't eating fish good for your health?
> >>>Fish absorb all the contamination from the water they live in, so fish
flesh is laced with toxins such as mercury,
> >>> lead, arsenic, PCBs, pesticides, and even industrial strength
fire-retardant.
> >>>Just two servings of fish per week can elevate your blood mercury
levels by
> >>>700 percent, and study after study has linked fish consumption to
fatigue,
> >>>memory loss, and decreased mental function. Click here for the facts
about fish flesh and your health.
> >>>
> >>>So what does the fish industry have to say for itself? It ignores the
fact that fish
> >>>flesh is toxic (the breast milk of some Inuit tribes is so concentrated
with poisons
> >>>from their fish diet that it meets the Environmental Protection
Agency's standards
> >>>for toxic waste) and points to small amounts of omega-3 fatty acids in
fish.
> >>> But you can get plenty of omega-3 fatty acids in nuts and leafy
> >>>green vegetables . without losing your mind.
> >>>
> >>>What's wrong with catch-and-release fishing?
> >>>Have you ever seen an injured dog who has been hit by a car or a cat
who's been
> >>>seriously hurt in a fight? Unless they are treated by a veterinarian,
these animals
> >>>are likely to die from their injuries. Fish are no different:
> >>>A hook through the mouth causes a serious and extremely painful injury
> >>>that is often fatal without treatment. But anglers just toss injured
> >>>fish back into the water-often without realizing what they've done.
> >>>
> >>>In addition to the wounds that are caused by the hook, fish released
after
> >>>being caught can suffer from loss of their protective scale coating,
> >>>dangerous build-up of lactic acid in their muscles, oxygen depletion,
> >>>and damage to their delicate fins and mouths.
> >>>Upon being returned to the water, these fish are easy targets for
predators
> >>>and other fishers. Researchers at the Oklahoma Department
> >>>of Wildlife Conservation found that as many as 43 percent of
> >>>fish released after being caught died within six days.
> >>>Catching fish is cruel and unnecessary, whether they
> >>>are killed on the spot or thrown back into the water, injured and
exhausted.
> >>>
> >>>Didn't Jesus eat fish?
> >>>It's an interesting question, but Biblical scholars agree that the
appropriate
> >>>question for Christians is, "What should we be eating?"
> >>>The Bible clearly says that our bodies are temples and that
> >>>we should take care of them. Yet it's a fact that all fish flesh today
> >>> is contaminated with heavy metals and other toxins.
> >>> In fact, fish flesh is just about the most polluted thing that
> >>> humans put into their bodies. On that basis alone,
> >>>Christians should not be eating it.
> >>>
> >>>Today's fishing practices are also horribly cruel to God's creatures.
> >>>God cares for all His creatures, and the Bible counsels compassion for
> >>>all beings. We all understand that it is immoral and contrary to
> >>>Christian mercy to torture dogs and cats. It is equally unchristian to
> >>> torture and kill (or pay others to torture and kill) fish and other
animals.
> >>>Although they may not be able to scream out in pain, fish have the
> >>>same capacity for suffering and the same right to compassion as all
living beings.
> >>>
> >>>For more frequently asked questions about vegetarianism, click here.
> >>>
> >>>For more frequently asked questions about other issues, click here.
> >>>
> >>>Ask Carla, PETA's kindness consultant.
> >
>
> >> > Didn't Jesus eat fish?
> >> > It's an interesting question,...
> >>
> >> Which you didn't even attempt to answer.
> >>
> >> Supposedly "Jesus" said "I am a fisher of men", so clearly he was a
> >> cannibal.
> >>
> >
>
> >what about feeding the 5k with 5 barley loaves an 2 fishes?
>
> http://www.vegsoc.org.au/religion_jesus.asp
>
> What Would Jesus Eat...Today
>
> As Christians, we hold that the ethical principles Jesus taught, such
> as love, compassion, humility, and charity, are eternal. We believe
> that, if Jesus were among us today and witnessed the wastefulness,
> environmental destructiveness, human health hazards, and animal
> mistreatment inherent in modern animal agriculture's methods, he would
> choose to abstain.
>
> Is vegetarianism biblical?
> The Bible depicts vegetarianism as an ideal, with a peaceful,
> vegetarian world at the Creation and at the end of time. God found
> everything in Eden "very good" immediately after giving all animals
> (and humans) a vegetarian diet (Genesis 1:29-30). Several prophecies,
> such as Isaiah 11:6-9, foresee a return to this vegetarian world,
> where the wolf, lamb, lion, cow, bear, snake, and little child all
> co-exist peacefully. Christian vegetarians believe we should strive
> towards the peaceful world Isaiah envisions; to try, in our own
> limited ways, to follow Christ's mission, expressed in the Lord's
> Prayer: "Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven" (Matthew 6:10,
> RSV).
>
> What are vegetarianism's benefits?
> World Hunger
> Jesus preached, "For I was hungry and you gave me food...as you did it
> to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me" (Matthew
> 25:35, 40). Yet, while many millions die of hunger annually and many
> more suffer malnutrition, worldwide one-third of all grain is fed to
> animals being raised for slaughter; in the U.S., the proportion is
> nearly three-fourths. Converting grains to meat wastes about 90% of
> grains' proteins, 96% of their calories, and 100% of their
> carbohydrates and fiber (Keith Akers, A Vegetarian Sourcebook). It is
> ironic that vegetarians, who are often accused of caring more about
> animals than humans, encourage a diet that helps feed humans, not
> animals.
>
> Your Health
> The Bible describes God's concern for humankind, and it follows that
> we should choose diets that help preserve human life. A pure
> vegetarian diet cuts cancer risk by about 40% (Cancer Res.
> 1975;35(suppl):3513-22), dramatically reduces heart disease risk (Dr.
> Neal Barnard, Food for Life), and helps people lose weight (Barnard,
> Turn Off the Fat Genes). Indeed, Paul says, "Do you not know that your
> body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, which you have from
> God?" (1 Corinthians 6:19).
>
> The Earth
> God instructed Adam to "till" and "keep" the Garden of Eden (Genesis
> 2:15), and by analogy we may see our task as to care for the rest of
> Creation. In the U.S., it takes far more energy, water, and other
> resources to feed a meat-eater than a vegetarian. By helping preserve
> scarce resources and minimizing environmental degradation,
> vegetarianism shows respect for Creation.
>
> Animal Welfare
> Jesus said that God feeds the birds of the air (Matthew 6:26) and does
> not forget sparrows (Luke 12:6). The Hebrew writings forbid inhumane
> slaughter or cruelty towards beasts of burden (Exodus 23:5,
> Deuteronomy 22:6-7, 25:4). In the U.S., nearly all animal foods are
> derived from intensive, "factory farms." Animals suffer greatly from
> stressful crowding, barren environments that frustrate their
> instinctive drives, and manipulations without anesthesia, such as
> debeaking chicks, cutting off pigs' tails, and castrating and branding
> cattle (Erik Marcus, Vegan: The New ethics of Eating).
>
> Farmers routinely use antibiotics to prevent infections in crowded,
> stressed animals, and this promotes dangerous antibiotic-resistance
> among bacteria. You can prevent infections by cooking meat, but this
> generates cancer-causing heterocyclic amines. Farmers also add
> hormones, harmful to human health, to stimulate excessive muscle
> development in animals, causing painful lameness. Slaughter typically
> involves terror and, often, great pain (Gail Eisnitz, Slaughterhouse).
>
> Didn't God put animals here for our use?
> Adam's "dominion" over animals (Genesis 1:26, 28), we believe, conveys
> sacred stewardship, since God then prescribed a vegetarian diet
> (Genesis 1:29-30) in a world God found "very good" (1:31). Genesis
> 2:18-19 relates, "Then the Lord God said, ?It is not good that man
> should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him'" and God then
> created animals. According to this passage, animals were made as
> Adam's companions and helpers, certainly not his supper.
>
> Didn't God give people permission to eat meat?
> Genesis 9:2-4 describes God giving Noah permission to eat meat, but
> this may have been because all plants were destroyed by the Flood and
> does not demonstrate that meat-eating is God's highest ideal.
> Similarly, there is no prohibition of slavery in the Bible, though it
> clearly does not agree with the highest biblical ideal. Throughout the
> Bible, people are encouraged to use their own free will to decide
> whether or not they will behave according to God's highest ideal.
>
> Does God care for animals?
> Proverbs 12:10 teaches, "A righteous man has regard for the life of
> his beast," while the Psalmist maintains that "The Lord is good to
> all, and his compassion is over all he has made" (Psalms 145:9).
>
> The Bible describes God's concern for animals repeatedly (Matthew
> 10:29, 12:11-12, 18:12-14) and forbids cruelty (Deuteronomy 22:10,
> 25:4). Importantly, five times after the flood God makes a covenant
> with animals as well as with humans. All creatures share in the
> Sabbath rest (Exodus 20:10, Deuteronomy 5:14). The Bible describes
> animals praising God (Psalms 148:7-10, 150:6), shows animals present
> in eternity (Isaiah 65:25, Revelation 5:13) and affirms that God
> preserves animals (Psalms 36:6, Ephesians 1:10, Colossians 1:20).
> Animals and humans look to God for sustenance (Psalms 104:27-31,
> 147:9, Matthew 6:26, Luke 12:6) and deliverance (Jonah 3:7-9, Romans
> 8:18-23).
>
> Does vegetarianism equate human and animal life?
> Vegetarianism simply reflects respect for Creation. Jesus says, "Are
> not five sparrows sold for two pennies? And not one of them is
> forgotten before God.... Fear not; you are of more value than many
> sparrows" (Luke 12:6-7). This passage relates that God values humans
> more than animals, but God remains concerned about all creatures. We
> can have compassion for animals, and allow them to live full and
> normal lives, without equating human and animal life.
>
> What about animal sacrifices?
> There are many different opinions on this question's answer, even
> among Christian vegetarians. Some believe that God accepted sacrifices
> at an earlier and more primitive time, but that sacrifices are
> certainly not required or even desired now, since Jesus' death atoned
> for our sins in a very final way. Others question whether God ever
> desired sacrifices; several prophets, including Isaiah, Jeremiah,
> Micah, Amos, and Hosea, objected to sacrifice, often emphasizing that
> God prefers righteousness. Indeed, Jesus twice quoted Hosea (6:6),
> saying, "I desire mercy and not sacrifice" (Matthew 9:13, 12:7).
> Importantly, unlike sacrificed animals, Jesus chose to sacrifice
> himself to fulfill God's will. Christians, being a new creation in
> Christ, may model Christ by choosing a loving relationship with all
> creation, which sometimes requires self-sacrifice.
>
> Didn't Jesus eat meat?
> Luke 24:43 relates that Jesus ate fish. However, many Christian
> vegetarians believe that Jesus would be a vegetarian today.
>
> What about the passage in which Peter is instructed to "kill and eat"
> all creatures (Acts 10:13, 11:7)?
> Many Christians, reading on, find that this passage is not a literal
> instruction to consume flesh. Peter, pondering this vision's meaning,
> concluded, "God has shown me that I should not call any man common or
> unclean" (Acts 10:28). However one interprets this passage, it does
> not require that we consume meat today.
>
> Should we accept meat as a gift, given that 1 Timothy 4:4 says,
> "everything created by God is good"?
> Paul also condoned meat-eating nearly 2000 years ago in 1 Corinthians
> 10:25, but modern animal agriculture is a human creation, and it harms
> humans, animals, and the Earth.
>
> Have nonvegetarian Christian saints and leaders been immoral?
> We should not judge those who may have eaten meat, owned slaves, or
> done other things that we believe are not God's highest ideals for
> humankind. We should simply do the best we can to express Christ's
> love, compassion, and peace. Throughout history, many people, in
> ignorance, have done hurtful things while concurrently showing great
> love and compassion in other ways.
>
> Have there been many vegetarian Christians?
> Many Christians have received the Gospel as encouraging vegetarianism.
> Several early Christian groups, including the Nazarenes, Ebionites,
> Elchasaites, Ossaeans, Cathars, and the Bogomils, encouraged
> vegetarianism. Since then, the Trappist, Benedictine, and Carthusian
> orders have advocated vegetarianism, as have Seventh-day Adventists.
> In the 19th century, members of the Bible Christian sect established
> the first vegetarian groups in England and the U.S.
>
> Vegetarian Christians have included Basil the Great, John Chrysostom,
> Tertullian, Origen, Clement of Alexandria, John Wesley (Methodism's
> founder), Ellen G. White (a Seventh-day Adventists founder), Salvation
> Army co-founders William and Catherine Booth, Leo Tolstoy, and Albert
> Schweitzer.
>
> Why aren't more Christians vegetarians?
> The most important reason is lack of awareness. If everyone saw the
> rough treatment, crowded conditions, and general misery of animals on
> factory farms, and then looked into the terrified eyes of animals at
> slaughterhouses, many more would become vegetarians. Some might still
> eat meat, but even then it would be because they didn't recognize the
> suffering or they incorrectly believed that meat is "necessary" for
> good health. Other effects of modern animal agriculture, such as
> resource depletion and the consequent environmental damage, are not so
> readily apparent.
>
> Don't laws ensure farm animal welfare?
> In many countries, including the U.S., animals on farms are
> specifically exempted from all humane legislation. At the
> slaughterhouse, "humane slaughter" laws are weak and poorly enforced.
>
> Instead of advocating vegetarianism, shouldn't we seek reforms?
> There are many ways to promote compassion, and many vegetarians are
> seeking reforms. While we carry out whatever public mission we feel is
> appropriate, we believe that people should be aware of the many
> negative effects of animal-based diet and agriculture, and we feel
> compelled to be vegetarians ourselves.
>
> Would animals overrun the earth if everyone became vegetarian?
> No. There are many species we don't eat, and they haven't overrun the
> earth. Human exploitation of the earth, in part to feed vast
> quantities of grain to livestock, is the chief reason for the
> environmental crisis.
>
> As the demand for animal-derived foods gradually decreases, fewer
> animals will be bred. In the unlikely event that many animals needed
> homes, compassionate people would find compassionate solutions. Such
> people already care for formerly farmed animals (see
> http://www.farmsanctuary.org).
>
> What would happen to butchers, cattle ranchers, and others who depend
> on animal agriculture for a livelihood?
> The abolition of slavery was difficult for former slaveholders; in a
> similar way, those dependent on animal agriculture may experience
> hardship when the world finally realizes that vegetarianism is
> necessary and desirable. Fortunately, job displacement will be
> minimal, because farm employment is already low and new markets for
> nonanimal foods will grow as demand for meat falls. If necessary,
> retraining or even outright support for those inconvenienced by this
> transition might be appropriate.
>
> Why should we be so concerned about animals when there are so many
> critical problems related to people today?
> Virtually all contemporary social problems are interconnected. Indeed,
> vegetarianism expresses compassion towards humans as well as animals,
> since it results in healthier people, helps feed the hungry, and
> promotes a cleaner, more sustainable environment.
>
> Since animals eat each other, what's wrong with humans eating animals?
> What animals do should not dictate human morality. Other animals may
> have to eat each other to live, but humans have a choice. We believe
> that vegetarianism expresses the love, compassion, and peace of
> Christ.
>
> Are humans naturally predators and therefore carnivores?
> While humans can digest flesh, and it is likely that our ancestors did
> consume small amounts of meat, our anatomy much more strongly
> resembles that of plant-eating creatures. For example: like herbivores
> (but unlike carnivores), our colons are long and complex (not simple
> and short); our intestines are 10-11 times longer than our bodies (not
> 3-6 times longer); our saliva contains digestive enzymes (unlike
> carnivores); our dental incisors are broad, flattened, and
> spade-shaped (not short and pointed); our canine teeth are short and
> blunted (not long, sharp, and curved); our molars are flattened with
> nodular cusps (not sharp blades like many carnivores); and our nails
> are flattened (not sharp claws).
>
> The millions of healthy vegetarians (who tend to outlive
> nonvegetarians) demonstrate that it is not necessary to eat meat.
>
> How would a Christian vegetarian celebrate holidays such as Easter,
> Thanksgiving, and Christmas?
> Vegetarians celebrate these holidays fully and joyously without
> consuming animals. Numerous cookbooks offer tasty vegetarian meals,
> from quick and easy to complex and elegant.
>
> Should a Christian also abstain from eggs, milk, leather, wool, and
> other animal products?
> A place to start is to become vegetarian. Then, we believe, Christians
> should try to reduce their consumption of animal products as much as
> possible. Vegetarians make a compassionate choice that expresses a
> faith in God's creative goodness. Many vegetarians, aware of the
> cruelties associated with other animal products, eventually choose not
> to consume them.
>
> How can I witness to the peace of Christ through diet?
> We should always remember that Christians strive to follow Christ's
> example of pure love and compassion, and most Christians would prefer
> that their diets not hurt animals, squander scarce resources, and harm
> their bodies. We need to show fellow Christians, in a loving and
> compassionate way, that nonanimal foods are tasty, convenient, and
> nutritious. The Christian Vegetarian Association's web site offers
> many ideas on how to promote vegetarianism within your congregation.
>
> Christian Vegetarian Association
> witnessing to the love, compassion, and peace of Christ by adopting
> and advocating a vegetarian diet
>
> Bibliography
>
> Keith Akers. The Lost Religion of Jesus.
> J.R. Hyland. God's Covenant with Animals.
> Andrew Linzey. Animal Gospel.
> George H. Malkmus. Why Christians Get Sick.
> Vesanto Melina et al. Becoming Vegetarian.
> Stephen H. Webb. Christian Vegetarianism; also, On God and Dogs.
> Richard Alan Young. Is God a Vegetarian?
>
>
> Web Sites
> *All Creatures
> http://www.all-creatures.org
> *Humane Religion
> http://www.humanereligion.org
> *Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine
> http://www.pcrm.org
> *Vegan Outreach (phone 412-968-0268)
> http://www.veganoutreach.org
> *Christian Vegetarian Association
> http://www.christianveg.com
> *Compassionate Spirit
> http://www.compassionatespirit.com
> By Peter Milne(Click for profile)
>

-Clip the nonsence-
Organic veg are feed with animal manure, who have been fed on meat. e.g. pig
s##t so one way or another your still eating animal by product!!! better
than chemical feed??

On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 22:26:41 GMT, "matthew walker"
 wrote:

>Now That you have started cross posting new groups because have nothing
>better to do!

Never take education lightly, it's a valuable asset.

>If you are not vegan,

What's that got to do with garden gnomes harming wildlife for fun?

> you consume animal products, 

What's that got to do with garden gnomes harming wildlife for fun?

>just because they are
>diguised in ingreadents or are a by product e.g wearing leather - they are
>still animal products from all of the so called cruel methods you have
>stated previously.

What's that got to do with garden gnomes harming wildlife for fun?

>If you are serious about gods creatures, don't drive - you may kill inscets,
>don't use any pharmacuticle drugs, they are tested on animals. Look down
>when you walk to ensure you dont step on any off gods creatures!. In fact
>any form of public transport will kill gods creatures. There is no hierarchy
>of life. you are a pathetic hypocrites, who can only resort to insults. If
>you clean your teeth, wash you are killing gods creatures bacteria!

Oh, and turn a blind eye to the weirdo's of society who think it's OK
to harm wildlife for fun? Fat chance, if left alone most of you go on
to abuse humans no doubt.

>
>"Gloria"  wrote in message
>news:aac2d3hhhp2a8ff36i6ks08uah7n11fmoc@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 25 Aug 2007 21:20:34 GMT, "matthew walker"
>>  wrote:
>>
>> >"sleepalot"  wrote in message
>> >news:1182470382.664841.289980@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>> >> On Jun 21, 8:56 am, Polly  wrote:
>> >>>Frequently Asked Questions
>> >>>Isn't eating fish good for your health?
>> >>>Fish absorb all the contamination from the water they live in, so fish
>flesh is laced with toxins such as mercury,
>> >>> lead, arsenic, PCBs, pesticides, and even industrial strength
>fire-retardant.
>> >>>Just two servings of fish per week can elevate your blood mercury
>levels by
>> >>>700 percent, and study after study has linked fish consumption to
>fatigue,
>> >>>memory loss, and decreased mental function. Click here for the facts
>about fish flesh and your health.
>> >>>
>> >>>So what does the fish industry have to say for itself? It ignores the
>fact that fish
>> >>>flesh is toxic (the breast milk of some Inuit tribes is so concentrated
>with poisons
>> >>>from their fish diet that it meets the Environmental Protection
>Agency's standards
>> >>>for toxic waste) and points to small amounts of omega-3 fatty acids in
>fish.
>> >>> But you can get plenty of omega-3 fatty acids in nuts and leafy
>> >>>green vegetables . without losing your mind.
>> >>>
>> >>>What's wrong with catch-and-release fishing?
>> >>>Have you ever seen an injured dog who has been hit by a car or a cat
>who's been
>> >>>seriously hurt in a fight? Unless they are treated by a veterinarian,
>these animals
>> >>>are likely to die from their injuries. Fish are no different:
>> >>>A hook through the mouth causes a serious and extremely painful injury
>> >>>that is often fatal without treatment. But anglers just toss injured
>> >>>fish back into the water-often without realizing what they've done.
>> >>>
>> >>>In addition to the wounds that are caused by the hook, fish released
>after
>> >>>being caught can suffer from loss of their protective scale coating,
>> >>>dangerous build-up of lactic acid in their muscles, oxygen depletion,
>> >>>and damage to their delicate fins and mouths.
>> >>>Upon being returned to the water, these fish are easy targets for
>predators
>> >>>and other fishers. Researchers at the Oklahoma Department
>> >>>of Wildlife Conservation found that as many as 43 percent of
>> >>>fish released after being caught died within six days.
>> >>>Catching fish is cruel and unnecessary, whether they
>> >>>are killed on the spot or thrown back into the water, injured and
>exhausted.
>> >>>
>> >>>Didn't Jesus eat fish?
>> >>>It's an interesting question, but Biblical scholars agree that the
>appropriate
>> >>>question for Christians is, "What should we be eating?"
>> >>>The Bible clearly says that our bodies are temples and that
>> >>>we should take care of them. Yet it's a fact that all fish flesh today
>> >>> is contaminated with heavy metals and other toxins.
>> >>> In fact, fish flesh is just about the most polluted thing that
>> >>> humans put into their bodies. On that basis alone,
>> >>>Christians should not be eating it.
>> >>>
>> >>>Today's fishing practices are also horribly cruel to God's creatures.
>> >>>God cares for all His creatures, and the Bible counsels compassion for
>> >>>all beings. We all understand that it is immoral and contrary to
>> >>>Christian mercy to torture dogs and cats. It is equally unchristian to
>> >>> torture and kill (or pay others to torture and kill) fish and other
>animals.
>> >>>Although they may not be able to scream out in pain, fish have the
>> >>>same capacity for suffering and the same right to compassion as all
>living beings.
>> >>>
>> >>>For more frequently asked questions about vegetarianism, click here.
>> >>>
>> >>>For more frequently asked questions about other issues, click here.
>> >>>
>> >>>Ask Carla, PETA's kindness consultant.
>> >
>>
>> >> > Didn't Jesus eat fish?
>> >> > It's an interesting question,...
>> >>
>> >> Which you didn't even attempt to answer.
>> >>
>> >> Supposedly "Jesus" said "I am a fisher of men", so clearly he was a
>> >> cannibal.
>> >>
>> >
>>
>> >what about feeding the 5k with 5 barley loaves an 2 fishes?
>>
>> http://www.vegsoc.org.au/religion_jesus.asp
>>
>> What Would Jesus Eat...Today
>>
>> As Christians, we hold that the ethical principles Jesus taught, such
>> as love, compassion, humility, and charity, are eternal. We believe
>> that, if Jesus were among us today and witnessed the wastefulness,
>> environmental destructiveness, human health hazards, and animal
>> mistreatment inherent in modern animal agriculture's methods, he would
>> choose to abstain.
>>
>> Is vegetarianism biblical?
>> The Bible depicts vegetarianism as an ideal, with a peaceful,
>> vegetarian world at the Creation and at the end of time. God found
>> everything in Eden "very good" immediately after giving all animals
>> (and humans) a vegetarian diet (Genesis 1:29-30). Several prophecies,
>> such as Isaiah 11:6-9, foresee a return to this vegetarian world,
>> where the wolf, lamb, lion, cow, bear, snake, and little child all
>> co-exist peacefully. Christian vegetarians believe we should strive
>> towards the peaceful world Isaiah envisions; to try, in our own
>> limited ways, to follow Christ's mission, expressed in the Lord's
>> Prayer: "Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven" (Matthew 6:10,
>> RSV).
>>
>> What are vegetarianism's benefits?
>> World Hunger
>> Jesus preached, "For I was hungry and you gave me food...as you did it
>> to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me" (Matthew
>> 25:35, 40). Yet, while many millions die of hunger annually and many
>> more suffer malnutrition, worldwide one-third of all grain is fed to
>> animals being raised for slaughter; in the U.S., the proportion is
>> nearly three-fourths. Converting grains to meat wastes about 90% of
>> grains' proteins, 96% of their calories, and 100% of their
>> carbohydrates and fiber (Keith Akers, A Vegetarian Sourcebook). It is
>> ironic that vegetarians, who are often accused of caring more about
>> animals than humans, encourage a diet that helps feed humans, not
>> animals.
>>
>> Your Health
>> The Bible describes God's concern for humankind, and it follows that
>> we should choose diets that help preserve human life. A pure
>> vegetarian diet cuts cancer risk by about 40% (Cancer Res.
>> 1975;35(suppl):3513-22), dramatically reduces heart disease risk (Dr.
>> Neal Barnard, Food for Life), and helps people lose weight (Barnard,
>> Turn Off the Fat Genes). Indeed, Paul says, "Do you not know that your
>> body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, which you have from
>> God?" (1 Corinthians 6:19).
>>
>> The Earth
>> God instructed Adam to "till" and "keep" the Garden of Eden (Genesis
>> 2:15), and by analogy we may see our task as to care for the rest of
>> Creation. In the U.S., it takes far more energy, water, and other
>> resources to feed a meat-eater than a vegetarian. By helping preserve
>> scarce resources and minimizing environmental degradation,
>> vegetarianism shows respect for Creation.
>>
>> Animal Welfare
>> Jesus said that God feeds the birds of the air (Matthew 6:26) and does
>> not forget sparrows (Luke 12:6). The Hebrew writings forbid inhumane
>> slaughter or cruelty towards beasts of burden (Exodus 23:5,
>> Deuteronomy 22:6-7, 25:4). In the U.S., nearly all animal foods are
>> derived from intensive, "factory farms." Animals suffer greatly from
>> stressful crowding, barren environments that frustrate their
>> instinctive drives, and manipulations without anesthesia, such as
>> debeaking chicks, cutting off pigs' tails, and castrating and branding
>> cattle (Erik Marcus, Vegan: The New ethics of Eating).
>>
>> Farmers routinely use antibiotics to prevent infections in crowded,
>> stressed animals, and this promotes dangerous antibiotic-resistance
>> among bacteria. You can prevent infections by cooking meat, but this
>> generates cancer-causing heterocyclic amines. Farmers also add
>> hormones, harmful to human health, to stimulate excessive muscle
>> development in animals, causing painful lameness. Slaughter typically
>> involves terror and, often, great pain (Gail Eisnitz, Slaughterhouse).
>>
>> Didn't God put animals here for our use?
>> Adam's "dominion" over animals (Genesis 1:26, 28), we believe, conveys
>> sacred stewardship, since God then prescribed a vegetarian diet
>> (Genesis 1:29-30) in a world God found "very good" (1:31). Genesis
>> 2:18-19 relates, "Then the Lord God said, ?It is not good that man
>> should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him'" and God then
>> created animals. According to this passage, animals were made as
>> Adam's companions and helpers, certainly not his supper.
>>
>> Didn't God give people permission to eat meat?
>> Genesis 9:2-4 describes God giving Noah permission to eat meat, but
>> this may have been because all plants were destroyed by the Flood and
>> does not demonstrate that meat-eating is God's highest ideal.
>> Similarly, there is no prohibition of slavery in the Bible, though it
>> clearly does not agree with the highest biblical ideal. Throughout the
>> Bible, people are encouraged to use their own free will to decide
>> whether or not they will behave according to God's highest ideal.
>>
>> Does God care for animals?
>> Proverbs 12:10 teaches, "A righteous man has regard for the life of
>> his beast," while the Psalmist maintains that "The Lord is good to
>> all, and his compassion is over all he has made" (Psalms 145:9).
>>
>> The Bible describes God's concern for animals repeatedly (Matthew
>> 10:29, 12:11-12, 18:12-14) and forbids cruelty (Deuteronomy 22:10,
>> 25:4). Importantly, five times after the flood God makes a covenant
>> with animals as well as with humans. All creatures share in the
>> Sabbath rest (Exodus 20:10, Deuteronomy 5:14). The Bible describes
>> animals praising God (Psalms 148:7-10, 150:6), shows animals present
>> in eternity (Isaiah 65:25, Revelation 5:13) and affirms that God
>> preserves animals (Psalms 36:6, Ephesians 1:10, Colossians 1:20).
>> Animals and humans look to God for sustenance (Psalms 104:27-31,
>> 147:9, Matthew 6:26, Luke 12:6) and deliverance (Jonah 3:7-9, Romans
>> 8:18-23).
>>
>> Does vegetarianism equate human and animal life?
>> Vegetarianism simply reflects respect for Creation. Jesus says, "Are
>> not five sparrows sold for two pennies? And not one of them is
>> forgotten before God.... Fear not; you are of more value than many
>> sparrows" (Luke 12:6-7). This passage relates that God values humans
>> more than animals, but God remains concerned about all creatures. We
>> can have compassion for animals, and allow them to live full and
>> normal lives, without equating human and animal life.
>>
>> What about animal sacrifices?
>> There are many different opinions on this question's answer, even
>> among Christian vegetarians. Some believe that God accepted sacrifices
>> at an earlier and more primitive time, but that sacrifices are
>> certainly not required or even desired now, since Jesus' death atoned
>> for our sins in a very final way. Others question whether God ever
>> desired sacrifices; several prophets, including Isaiah, Jeremiah,
>> Micah, Amos, and Hosea, objected to sacrifice, often emphasizing that
>> God prefers righteousness. Indeed, Jesus twice quoted Hosea (6:6),
>> saying, "I desire mercy and not sacrifice" (Matthew 9:13, 12:7).
>> Importantly, unlike sacrificed animals, Jesus chose to sacrifice
>> himself to fulfill God's will. Christians, being a new creation in
>> Christ, may model Christ by choosing a loving relationship with all
>> creation, which sometimes requires self-sacrifice.
>>
>> Didn't Jesus eat meat?
>> Luke 24:43 relates that Jesus ate fish. However, many Christian
>> vegetarians believe that Jesus would be a vegetarian today.
>>
>> What about the passage in which Peter is instructed to "kill and eat"
>> all creatures (Acts 10:13, 11:7)?
>> Many Christians, reading on, find that this passage is not a literal
>> instruction to consume flesh. Peter, pondering this vision's meaning,
>> concluded, "God has shown me that I should not call any man common or
>> unclean" (Acts 10:28). However one interprets this passage, it does
>> not require that we consume meat today.
>>
>> Should we accept meat as a gift, given that 1 Timothy 4:4 says,
>> "everything created by God is good"?
>> Paul also condoned meat-eating nearly 2000 years ago in 1 Corinthians
>> 10:25, but modern animal agriculture is a human creation, and it harms
>> humans, animals, and the Earth.
>>
>> Have nonvegetarian Christian saints and leaders been immoral?
>> We should not judge those who may have eaten meat, owned slaves, or
>> done other things that we believe are not God's highest ideals for
>> humankind. We should simply do the best we can to express Christ's
>> love, compassion, and peace. Throughout history, many people, in
>> ignorance, have done hurtful things while concurrently showing great
>> love and compassion in other ways.
>>
>> Have there been many vegetarian Christians?
>> Many Christians have received the Gospel as encouraging vegetarianism.
>> Several early Christian groups, including the Nazarenes, Ebionites,
>> Elchasaites, Ossaeans, Cathars, and the Bogomils, encouraged
>> vegetarianism. Since then, the Trappist, Benedictine, and Carthusian
>> orders have advocated vegetarianism, as have Seventh-day Adventists.
>> In the 19th century, members of the Bible Christian sect established
>> the first vegetarian groups in England and the U.S.
>>
>> Vegetarian Christians have included Basil the Great, John Chrysostom,
>> Tertullian, Origen, Clement of Alexandria, John Wesley (Methodism's
>> founder), Ellen G. White (a Seventh-day Adventists founder), Salvation
>> Army co-founders William and Catherine Booth, Leo Tolstoy, and Albert
>> Schweitzer.
>>
>> Why aren't more Christians vegetarians?
>> The most important reason is lack of awareness. If everyone saw the
>> rough treatment, crowded conditions, and general misery of animals on
>> factory farms, and then looked into the terrified eyes of animals at
>> slaughterhouses, many more would become vegetarians. Some might still
>> eat meat, but even then it would be because they didn't recognize the
>> suffering or they incorrectly believed that meat is "necessary" for
>> good health. Other effects of modern animal agriculture, such as
>> resource depletion and the consequent environmental damage, are not so
>> readily apparent.
>>
>> Don't laws ensure farm animal welfare?
>> In many countries, including the U.S., animals on farms are
>> specifically exempted from all humane legislation. At the
>> slaughterhouse, "humane slaughter" laws are weak and poorly enforced.
>>
>> Instead of advocating vegetarianism, shouldn't we seek reforms?
>> There are many ways to promote compassion, and many vegetarians are
>> seeking reforms. While we carry out whatever public mission we feel is
>> appropriate, we believe that people should be aware of the many
>> negative effects of animal-based diet and agriculture, and we feel
>> compelled to be vegetarians ourselves.
>>
>> Would animals overrun the earth if everyone became vegetarian?
>> No. There are many species we don't eat, and they haven't overrun the
>> earth. Human exploitation of the earth, in part to feed vast
>> quantities of grain to livestock, is the chief reason for the
>> environmental crisis.
>>
>> As the demand for animal-derived foods gradually decreases, fewer
>> animals will be bred. In the unlikely event that many animals needed
>> homes, compassionate people would find compassionate solutions. Such
>> people already care for formerly farmed animals (see
>> http://www.farmsanctuary.org).
>>
>> What would happen to butchers, cattle ranchers, and others who depend
>> on animal agriculture for a livelihood?
>> The abolition of slavery was difficult for former slaveholders; in a
>> similar way, those dependent on animal agriculture may experience
>> hardship when the world finally realizes that vegetarianism is
>> necessary and desirable. Fortunately, job displacement will be
>> minimal, because farm employment is already low and new markets for
>> nonanimal foods will grow as demand for meat falls. If necessary,
>> retraining or even outright support for those inconvenienced by this
>> transition might be appropriate.
>>
>> Why should we be so concerned about animals when there are so many
>> critical problems related to people today?
>> Virtually all contemporary social problems are interconnected. Indeed,
>> vegetarianism expresses compassion towards humans as well as animals,
>> since it results in healthier people, helps feed the hungry, and
>> promotes a cleaner, more sustainable environment.
>>
>> Since animals eat each other, what's wrong with humans eating animals?
>> What animals do should not dictate human morality. Other animals may
>> have to eat each other to live, but humans have a choice. We believe
>> that vegetarianism expresses the love, compassion, and peace of
>> Christ.
>>
>> Are humans naturally predators and therefore carnivores?
>> While humans can digest flesh, and it is likely that our ancestors did
>> consume small amounts of meat, our anatomy much more strongly
>> resembles that of plant-eating creatures. For example: like herbivores
>> (but unlike carnivores), our colons are long and complex (not simple
>> and short); our intestines are 10-11 times longer than our bodies (not
>> 3-6 times longer); our saliva contains digestive enzymes (unlike
>> carnivores); our dental incisors are broad, flattened, and
>> spade-shaped (not short and pointed); our canine teeth are short and
>> blunted (not long, sharp, and curved); our molars are flattened with
>> nodular cusps (not sharp blades like many carnivores); and our nails
>> are flattened (not sharp claws).
>>
>> The millions of healthy vegetarians (who tend to outlive
>> nonvegetarians) demonstrate that it is not necessary to eat meat.
>>
>> How would a Christian vegetarian celebrate holidays such as Easter,
>> Thanksgiving, and Christmas?
>> Vegetarians celebrate these holidays fully and joyously without
>> consuming animals. Numerous cookbooks offer tasty vegetarian meals,
>> from quick and easy to complex and elegant.
>>
>> Should a Christian also abstain from eggs, milk, leather, wool, and
>> other animal products?
>> A place to start is to become vegetarian. Then, we believe, Christians
>> should try to reduce their consumption of animal products as much as
>> possible. Vegetarians make a compassionate choice that expresses a
>> faith in God's creative goodness. Many vegetarians, aware of the
>> cruelties associated with other animal products, eventually choose not
>> to consume them.
>>
>> How can I witness to the peace of Christ through diet?
>> We should always remember that Christians strive to follow Christ's
>> example of pure love and compassion, and most Christians would prefer
>> that their diets not hurt animals, squander scarce resources, and harm
>> their bodies. We need to show fellow Christians, in a loving and
>> compassionate way, that nonanimal foods are tasty, convenient, and
>> nutritious. The Christian Vegetarian Association's web site offers
>> many ideas on how to promote vegetarianism within your congregation.
>>
>> Christian Vegetarian Association
>> witnessing to the love, compassion, and peace of Christ by adopting
>> and advocating a vegetarian diet
>>
>> Bibliography
>>
>> Keith Akers. The Lost Religion of Jesus.
>> J.R. Hyland. God's Covenant with Animals.
>> Andrew Linzey. Animal Gospel.
>> George H. Malkmus. Why Christians Get Sick.
>> Vesanto Melina et al. Becoming Vegetarian.
>> Stephen H. Webb. Christian Vegetarianism; also, On God and Dogs.
>> Richard Alan Young. Is God a Vegetarian?
>>
>>
>> Web Sites
>> *All Creatures
>> http://www.all-creatures.org
>> *Humane Religion
>> http://www.humanereligion.org
>> *Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine
>> http://www.pcrm.org
>> *Vegan Outreach (phone 412-968-0268)
>> http://www.veganoutreach.org
>> *Christian Vegetarian Association
>> http://www.christianveg.com
>> *Compassionate Spirit
>> http://www.compassionatespirit.com
>> By Peter Milne(Click for profile)
>>
>

On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 22:51:23 GMT, "matthew walker"
 wrote:

>-Clip the nonsence-
>Organic veg are feed with animal manure, who have been fed on meat. e.g. pig
>s##t so one way or another your still eating animal by product!!! better
>than chemical feed??
>

Sounds like horse shit to me, they don't eat meat!

"Gloria"  wrote in message
news:u435d350hn8kr718fm07tv1j3nj2erelck@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 22:51:23 GMT, "matthew walker"
>  wrote:
>
> >-Clip the nonsence-
> >Organic veg are feed with animal manure, who have been fed on meat. e.g.
pig
> >s##t so one way or another your still eating animal by product!!! better
> >than chemical feed??
> >
>
> Sounds like horse shit to me, they don't eat meat!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig

On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:07:44 GMT, "matthew walker"
 wrote:

>
>"Gloria"  wrote in message
>news:u435d350hn8kr718fm07tv1j3nj2erelck@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 22:51:23 GMT, "matthew walker"
>>  wrote:
>>
>> >-Clip the nonsence-
>> >Organic veg are feed with animal manure, who have been fed on meat. e.g.
>pig
>> >s##t so one way or another your still eating animal by product!!! better
>> >than chemical feed??
>> >
>>
>> Sounds like horse shit to me, they don't eat meat!
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig
>
>

As usual you miss  the point! OK 

lesson ONE What IS Horse Shit?

Lesson TWO What do horses eat?

Lesson Three What can horse poop be used for?

On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 22:26:41 GMT, "matthew walker"
 wrote:

The village idiot Garden Gnome angling stalker known as  "matthew
walker" has taken to sending abusive emails and registering me for
porno websights, some of which are run by the notorious child porn
king and gnome Derek Moody.

An example of the mindset of an angling gnome. Note the IPs the
village idiot obviously knows nothing about. Someone educate the loser
please. LOL

ONE: 

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From: "matthew walker"   Add to Address
Book 
To: "Mr Lane"  
References:  
Subject: Re: Cruel angling FAQs http://www.fishinghurts.com/ 
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 19:52:08 +0100 
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    Dude,
If you are serious about gods creatures, don't drive - you may kill
inscets, don't use any pharmacuticle drugs, they are tested on
animals. Look down when you walk to ensure you dont step on any off
gods creatures!. In fact any form of public transport will kill gods
creatures. There is no hierarchy of life. you are a pathetic
hypocrite, who can only resort to insults. If you clean your teeth,
wash you are killing gods creatures bacteria!. If you want to play
games and give me insults, then fuck off you pathetic person!!
 
Get a fucking life and practice what you preach
Twat!

TWO:
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He he

>Now That you have started cross posting new groups because have nothing
>better to do!
>If you are not vegan, you consume animal products, just because they are
>diguised in ingreadents or are a by product e.g wearing leather - they are
>still animal products from all of the so called cruel methods you have
>stated previously.
>
>If you are serious about gods creatures, don't drive - you may kill inscets,
>don't use any pharmacuticle drugs, they are tested on animals. Look down
>when you walk to ensure you dont step on any off gods creatures!. In fact
>any form of public transport will kill gods creatures. There is no hierarchy
>of life. you are a pathetic hypocrites, who can only resort to insults. If
>you clean your teeth, wash you are killing gods creatures bacteria!
>
>"Gloria"  wrote in message
>news:aac2d3hhhp2a8ff36i6ks08uah7n11fmoc@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 25 Aug 2007 21:20:34 GMT, "matthew walker"
>>  wrote:
>>
>> >"sleepalot"  wrote in message
>> >news:1182470382.664841.289980@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>> >> On Jun 21, 8:56 am, Polly  wrote:
>> >>>Frequently Asked Questions
>> >>>Isn't eating fish good for your health?
>> >>>Fish absorb all the contamination from the water they live in, so fish
>flesh is laced with toxins such as mercury,
>> >>> lead, arsenic, PCBs, pesticides, and even industrial strength
>fire-retardant.
>> >>>Just two servings of fish per week can elevate your blood mercury
>levels by
>> >>>700 percent, and study after study has linked fish consumption to
>fatigue,
>> >>>memory loss, and decreased mental function. Click here for the facts
>about fish flesh and your health.
>> >>>
>> >>>So what does the fish industry have to say for itself? It ignores the
>fact that fish
>> >>>flesh is toxic (the breast milk of some Inuit tribes is so concentrated
>with poisons
>> >>>from their fish diet that it meets the Environmental Protection
>Agency's standards
>> >>>for toxic waste) and points to small amounts of omega-3 fatty acids in
>fish.
>> >>> But you can get plenty of omega-3 fatty acids in nuts and leafy
>> >>>green vegetables . without losing your mind.
>> >>>
>> >>>What's wrong with catch-and-release fishing?
>> >>>Have you ever seen an injured dog who has been hit by a car or a cat
>who's been
>> >>>seriously hurt in a fight? Unless they are treated by a veterinarian,
>these animals
>> >>>are likely to die from their injuries. Fish are no different:
>> >>>A hook through the mouth causes a serious and extremely painful injury
>> >>>that is often fatal without treatment. But anglers just toss injured
>> >>>fish back into the water-often without realizing what they've done.
>> >>>
>> >>>In addition to the wounds that are caused by the hook, fish released
>after
>> >>>being caught can suffer from loss of their protective scale coating,
>> >>>dangerous build-up of lactic acid in their muscles, oxygen depletion,
>> >>>and damage to their delicate fins and mouths.
>> >>>Upon being returned to the water, these fish are easy targets for
>predators
>> >>>and other fishers. Researchers at the Oklahoma Department
>> >>>of Wildlife Conservation found that as many as 43 percent of
>> >>>fish released after being caught died within six days.
>> >>>Catching fish is cruel and unnecessary, whether they
>> >>>are killed on the spot or thrown back into the water, injured and
>exhausted.
>> >>>
>> >>>Didn't Jesus eat fish?
>> >>>It's an interesting question, but Biblical scholars agree that the
>appropriate
>> >>>question for Christians is, "What should we be eating?"
>> >>>The Bible clearly says that our bodies are temples and that
>> >>>we should take care of them. Yet it's a fact that all fish flesh today
>> >>> is contaminated with heavy metals and other toxins.
>> >>> In fact, fish flesh is just about the most polluted thing that
>> >>> humans put into their bodies. On that basis alone,
>> >>>Christians should not be eating it.
>> >>>
>> >>>Today's fishing practices are also horribly cruel to God's creatures.
>> >>>God cares for all His creatures, and the Bible counsels compassion for
>> >>>all beings. We all understand that it is immoral and contrary to
>> >>>Christian mercy to torture dogs and cats. It is equally unchristian to
>> >>> torture and kill (or pay others to torture and kill) fish and other
>animals.
>> >>>Although they may not be able to scream out in pain, fish have the
>> >>>same capacity for suffering and the same right to compassion as all
>living beings.
>> >>>
>> >>>For more frequently asked questions about vegetarianism, click here.
>> >>>
>> >>>For more frequently asked questions about other issues, click here.
>> >>>
>> >>>Ask Carla, PETA's kindness consultant.
>> >
>>
>> >> > Didn't Jesus eat fish?
>> >> > It's an interesting question,...
>> >>
>> >> Which you didn't even attempt to answer.
>> >>
>> >> Supposedly "Jesus" said "I am a fisher of men", so clearly he was a
>> >> cannibal.
>> >>
>> >
>>
>> >what about feeding the 5k with 5 barley loaves an 2 fishes?
>>
>> http://www.vegsoc.org.au/religion_jesus.asp
>>
>> What Would Jesus Eat...Today
>>
>> As Christians, we hold that the ethical principles Jesus taught, such
>> as love, compassion, humility, and charity, are eternal. We believe
>> that, if Jesus were among us today and witnessed the wastefulness,
>> environmental destructiveness, human health hazards, and animal
>> mistreatment inherent in modern animal agriculture's methods, he would
>> choose to abstain.
>>
>> Is vegetarianism biblical?
>> The Bible depicts vegetarianism as an ideal, with a peaceful,
>> vegetarian world at the Creation and at the end of time. God found
>> everything in Eden "very good" immediately after giving all animals
>> (and humans) a vegetarian diet (Genesis 1:29-30). Several prophecies,
>> such as Isaiah 11:6-9, foresee a return to this vegetarian world,
>> where the wolf, lamb, lion, cow, bear, snake, and little child all
>> co-exist peacefully. Christian vegetarians believe we should strive
>> towards the peaceful world Isaiah envisions; to try, in our own
>> limited ways, to follow Christ's mission, expressed in the Lord's
>> Prayer: "Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven" (Matthew 6:10,
>> RSV).
>>
>> What are vegetarianism's benefits?
>> World Hunger
>> Jesus preached, "For I was hungry and you gave me food...as you did it
>> to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me" (Matthew
>> 25:35, 40). Yet, while many millions die of hunger annually and many
>> more suffer malnutrition, worldwide one-third of all grain is fed to
>> animals being raised for slaughter; in the U.S., the proportion is
>> nearly three-fourths. Converting grains to meat wastes about 90% of
>> grains' proteins, 96% of their calories, and 100% of their
>> carbohydrates and fiber (Keith Akers, A Vegetarian Sourcebook). It is
>> ironic that vegetarians, who are often accused of caring more about
>> animals than humans, encourage a diet that helps feed humans, not
>> animals.
>>
>> Your Health
>> The Bible describes God's concern for humankind, and it follows that
>> we should choose diets that help preserve human life. A pure
>> vegetarian diet cuts cancer risk by about 40% (Cancer Res.
>> 1975;35(suppl):3513-22), dramatically reduces heart disease risk (Dr.
>> Neal Barnard, Food for Life), and helps people lose weight (Barnard,
>> Turn Off the Fat Genes). Indeed, Paul says, "Do you not know that your
>> body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, which you have from
>> God?" (1 Corinthians 6:19).
>>
>> The Earth
>> God instructed Adam to "till" and "keep" the Garden of Eden (Genesis
>> 2:15), and by analogy we may see our task as to care for the rest of
>> Creation. In the U.S., it takes far more energy, water, and other
>> resources to feed a meat-eater than a vegetarian. By helping preserve
>> scarce resources and minimizing environmental degradation,
>> vegetarianism shows respect for Creation.
>>
>> Animal Welfare
>> Jesus said that God feeds the birds of the air (Matthew 6:26) and does
>> not forget sparrows (Luke 12:6). The Hebrew writings forbid inhumane
>> slaughter or cruelty towards beasts of burden (Exodus 23:5,
>> Deuteronomy 22:6-7, 25:4). In the U.S., nearly all animal foods are
>> derived from intensive, "factory farms." Animals suffer greatly from
>> stressful crowding, barren environments that frustrate their
>> instinctive drives, and manipulations without anesthesia, such as
>> debeaking chicks, cutting off pigs' tails, and castrating and branding
>> cattle (Erik Marcus, Vegan: The New ethics of Eating).
>>
>> Farmers routinely use antibiotics to prevent infections in crowded,
>> stressed animals, and this promotes dangerous antibiotic-resistance
>> among bacteria. You can prevent infections by cooking meat, but this
>> generates cancer-causing heterocyclic amines. Farmers also add
>> hormones, harmful to human health, to stimulate excessive muscle
>> development in animals, causing painful lameness. Slaughter typically
>> involves terror and, often, great pain (Gail Eisnitz, Slaughterhouse).
>>
>> Didn't God put animals here for our use?
>> Adam's "dominion" over animals (Genesis 1:26, 28), we believe, conveys
>> sacred stewardship, since God then prescribed a vegetarian diet
>> (Genesis 1:29-30) in a world God found "very good" (1:31). Genesis
>> 2:18-19 relates, "Then the Lord God said, ?It is not good that man
>> should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him'" and God then
>> created animals. According to this passage, animals were made as
>> Adam's companions and helpers, certainly not his supper.
>>
>> Didn't God give people permission to eat meat?
>> Genesis 9:2-4 describes God giving Noah permission to eat meat, but
>> this may have been because all plants were destroyed by the Flood and
>> does not demonstrate that meat-eating is God's highest ideal.
>> Similarly, there is no prohibition of slavery in the Bible, though it
>> clearly does not agree with the highest biblical ideal. Throughout the
>> Bible, people are encouraged to use their own free will to decide
>> whether or not they will behave according to God's highest ideal.
>>
>> Does God care for animals?
>> Proverbs 12:10 teaches, "A righteous man has regard for the life of
>> his beast," while the Psalmist maintains that "The Lord is good to
>> all, and his compassion is over all he has made" (Psalms 145:9).
>>
>> The Bible describes God's concern for animals repeatedly (Matthew
>> 10:29, 12:11-12, 18:12-14) and forbids cruelty (Deuteronomy 22:10,
>> 25:4). Importantly, five times after the flood God makes a covenant
>> with animals as well as with humans. All creatures share in the
>> Sabbath rest (Exodus 20:10, Deuteronomy 5:14). The Bible describes
>> animals praising God (Psalms 148:7-10, 150:6), shows animals present
>> in eternity (Isaiah 65:25, Revelation 5:13) and affirms that God
>> preserves animals (Psalms 36:6, Ephesians 1:10, Colossians 1:20).
>> Animals and humans look to God for sustenance (Psalms 104:27-31,
>> 147:9, Matthew 6:26, Luke 12:6) and deliverance (Jonah 3:7-9, Romans
>> 8:18-23).
>>
>> Does vegetarianism equate human and animal life?
>> Vegetarianism simply reflects respect for Creation. Jesus says, "Are
>> not five sparrows sold for two pennies? And not one of them is
>> forgotten before God.... Fear not; you are of more value than many
>> sparrows" (Luke 12:6-7). This passage relates that God values humans
>> more than animals, but God remains concerned about all creatures. We
>> can have compassion for animals, and allow them to live full and
>> normal lives, without equating human and animal life.
>>
>> What about animal sacrifices?
>> There are many different opinions on this question's answer, even
>> among Christian vegetarians. Some believe that God accepted sacrifices
>> at an earlier and more primitive time, but that sacrifices are
>> certainly not required or even desired now, since Jesus' death atoned
>> for our sins in a very final way. Others question whether God ever
>> desired sacrifices; several prophets, including Isaiah, Jeremiah,
>> Micah, Amos, and Hosea, objected to sacrifice, often emphasizing that
>> God prefers righteousness. Indeed, Jesus twice quoted Hosea (6:6),
>> saying, "I desire mercy and not sacrifice" (Matthew 9:13, 12:7).
>> Importantly, unlike sacrificed animals, Jesus chose to sacrifice
>> himself to fulfill God's will. Christians, being a new creation in
>> Christ, may model Christ by choosing a loving relationship with all
>> creation, which sometimes requires self-sacrifice.
>>
>> Didn't Jesus eat meat?
>> Luke 24:43 relates that Jesus ate fish. However, many Christian
>> vegetarians believe that Jesus would be a vegetarian today.
>>
>> What about the passage in which Peter is instructed to "kill and eat"
>> all creatures (Acts 10:13, 11:7)?
>> Many Christians, reading on, find that this passage is not a literal
>> instruction to consume flesh. Peter, pondering this vision's meaning,
>> concluded, "God has shown me that I should not call any man common or
>> unclean" (Acts 10:28). However one interprets this passage, it does
>> not require that we consume meat today.
>>
>> Should we accept meat as a gift, given that 1 Timothy 4:4 says,
>> "everything created by God is good"?
>> Paul also condoned meat-eating nearly 2000 years ago in 1 Corinthians
>> 10:25, but modern animal agriculture is a human creation, and it harms
>> humans, animals, and the Earth.
>>
>> Have nonvegetarian Christian saints and leaders been immoral?
>> We should not judge those who may have eaten meat, owned slaves, or
>> done other things that we believe are not God's highest ideals for
>> humankind. We should simply do the best we can to express Christ's
>> love, compassion, and peace. Throughout history, many people, in
>> ignorance, have done hurtful things while concurrently showing great
>> love and compassion in other ways.
>>
>> Have there been many vegetarian Christians?
>> Many Christians have received the Gospel as encouraging vegetarianism.
>> Several early Christian groups, including the Nazarenes, Ebionites,
>> Elchasaites, Ossaeans, Cathars, and the Bogomils, encouraged
>> vegetarianism. Since then, the Trappist, Benedictine, and Carthusian
>> orders have advocated vegetarianism, as have Seventh-day Adventists.
>> In the 19th century, members of the Bible Christian sect established
>> the first vegetarian groups in England and the U.S.
>>
>> Vegetarian Christians have included Basil the Great, John Chrysostom,
>> Tertullian, Origen, Clement of Alexandria, John Wesley (Methodism's
>> founder), Ellen G. White (a Seventh-day Adventists founder), Salvation
>> Army co-founders William and Catherine Booth, Leo Tolstoy, and Albert
>> Schweitzer.
>>
>> Why aren't more Christians vegetarians?
>> The most important reason is lack of awareness. If everyone saw the
>> rough treatment, crowded conditions, and general misery of animals on
>> factory farms, and then looked into the terrified eyes of animals at
>> slaughterhouses, many more would become vegetarians. Some might still
>> eat meat, but even then it would be because they didn't recognize the
>> suffering or they incorrectly believed that meat is "necessary" for
>> good health. Other effects of modern animal agriculture, such as
>> resource depletion and the consequent environmental damage, are not so
>> readily apparent.
>>
>> Don't laws ensure farm animal welfare?
>> In many countries, including the U.S., animals on farms are
>> specifically exempted from all humane legislation. At the
>> slaughterhouse, "humane slaughter" laws are weak and poorly enforced.
>>
>> Instead of advocating vegetarianism, shouldn't we seek reforms?
>> There are many ways to promote compassion, and many vegetarians are
>> seeking reforms. While we carry out whatever public mission we feel is
>> appropriate, we believe that people should be aware of the many
>> negative effects of animal-based diet and agriculture, and we feel
>> compelled to be vegetarians ourselves.
>>
>> Would animals overrun the earth if everyone became vegetarian?
>> No. There are many species we don't eat, and they haven't overrun the
>> earth. Human exploitation of the earth, in part to feed vast
>> quantities of grain to livestock, is the chief reason for the
>> environmental crisis.
>>
>> As the demand for animal-derived foods gradually decreases, fewer
>> animals will be bred. In the unlikely event that many animals needed
>> homes, compassionate people would find compassionate solutions. Such
>> people already care for formerly farmed animals (see
>> http://www.farmsanctuary.org).
>>
>> What would happen to butchers, cattle ranchers, and others who depend
>> on animal agriculture for a livelihood?
>> The abolition of slavery was difficult for former slaveholders; in a
>> similar way, those dependent on animal agriculture may experience
>> hardship when the world finally realizes that vegetarianism is
>> necessary and desirable. Fortunately, job displacement will be
>> minimal, because farm employment is already low and new markets for
>> nonanimal foods will grow as demand for meat falls. If necessary,
>> retraining or even outright support for those inconvenienced by this
>> transition might be appropriate.
>>
>> Why should we be so concerned about animals when there are so many
>> critical problems related to people today?
>> Virtually all contemporary social problems are interconnected. Indeed,
>> vegetarianism expresses compassion towards humans as well as animals,
>> since it results in healthier people, helps feed the hungry, and
>> promotes a cleaner, more sustainable environment.
>>
>> Since animals eat each other, what's wrong with humans eating animals?
>> What animals do should not dictate human morality. Other animals may
>> have to eat each other to live, but humans have a choice. We believe
>> that vegetarianism expresses the love, compassion, and peace of
>> Christ.
>>
>> Are humans naturally predators and therefore carnivores?
>> While humans can digest flesh, and it is likely that our ancestors did
>> consume small amounts of meat, our anatomy much more strongly
>> resembles that of plant-eating creatures. For example: like herbivores
>> (but unlike carnivores), our colons are long and complex (not simple
>> and short); our intestines are 10-11 times longer than our bodies (not
>> 3-6 times longer); our saliva contains digestive enzymes (unlike
>> carnivores); our dental incisors are broad, flattened, and
>> spade-shaped (not short and pointed); our canine teeth are short and
>> blunted (not long, sharp, and curved); our molars are flattened with
>> nodular cusps (not sharp blades like many carnivores); and our nails
>> are flattened (not sharp claws).
>>
>> The millions of healthy vegetarians (who tend to outlive
>> nonvegetarians) demonstrate that it is not necessary to eat meat.
>>
>> How would a Christian vegetarian celebrate holidays such as Easter,
>> Thanksgiving, and Christmas?
>> Vegetarians celebrate these holidays fully and joyously without
>> consuming animals. Numerous cookbooks offer tasty vegetarian meals,
>> from quick and easy to complex and elegant.
>>
>> Should a Christian also abstain from eggs, milk, leather, wool, and
>> other animal products?
>> A place to start is to become vegetarian. Then, we believe, Christians
>> should try to reduce their consumption of animal products as much as
>> possible. Vegetarians make a compassionate choice that expresses a
>> faith in God's creative goodness. Many vegetarians, aware of the
>> cruelties associated with other animal products, eventually choose not
>> to consume them.
>>
>> How can I witness to the peace of Christ through diet?
>> We should always remember that Christians strive to follow Christ's
>> example of pure love and compassion, and most Christians would prefer
>> that their diets not hurt animals, squander scarce resources, and harm
>> their bodies. We need to show fellow Christians, in a loving and
>> compassionate way, that nonanimal foods are tasty, convenient, and
>> nutritious. The Christian Vegetarian Association's web site offers
>> many ideas on how to promote vegetarianism within your congregation.
>>
>> Christian Vegetarian Association
>> witnessing to the love, compassion, and peace of Christ by adopting
>> and advocating a vegetarian diet
>>
>> Bibliography
>>
>> Keith Akers. The Lost Religion of Jesus.
>> J.R. Hyland. God's Covenant with Animals.
>> Andrew Linzey. Animal Gospel.
>> George H. Malkmus. Why Christians Get Sick.
>> Vesanto Melina et al. Becoming Vegetarian.
>> Stephen H. Webb. Christian Vegetarianism; also, On God and Dogs.
>> Richard Alan Young. Is God a Vegetarian?
>>
>>
>> Web Sites
>> *All Creatures
>> http://www.all-creatures.org
>> *Humane Religion
>> http://www.humanereligion.org
>> *Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine
>> http://www.pcrm.org
>> *Vegan Outreach (phone 412-968-0268)
>> http://www.veganoutreach.org
>> *Christian Vegetarian Association
>> http://www.christianveg.com
>> *Compassionate Spirit
>> http://www.compassionatespirit.com
>> By Peter Milne(Click for profile)
>>
>

On 28/8/07 13:08, in article 6n38d3dhds8hc1ge5a9o4ddc6tuih57nj6@4ax.com,
"Gloria"  wrote:

Can someone tell me how I kill file this person once and for all, using
Eudora on a Mac OSX?  The fact that Mike Crowe keeps answering him, with all
the cross posting left in really doesn't help urg at all, IMO. Thanks.

-- 
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 13:08:58 +0100, Gloria
 wrote:

>On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 22:26:41 GMT, "matthew walker"
> wrote:
>
>The village idiot Garden Gnome angling stalker known as  "matthew
>walker" has taken to sending abusive emails and registering me for
>porno websights, some of which are run by the notorious child porn
>king and gnome Derek Moody.
>
>An example of the mindset of an angling gnome. Note the IPs the
>village idiot obviously knows nothing about. Someone educate the loser
>please. LOL
>
>ONE: 
>
>X-Apparently-To: letsstandup2bullies@yahoo.co.uk via 217.146.176.53;
>Sun, 26 Aug 2007 18:06:49 +0000 
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>Message-ID: <002601c7e812$37b5b8a0$0101a8c0@nonei3ghqworyw> 
>From: "matthew walker"   Add to Address
>Book 
>To: "Mr Lane"  
>References:  
>Subject: Re: Cruel angling FAQs http://www.fishinghurts.com/ 
>Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 19:52:08 +0100 
>MIME-Version: 1.0 
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>boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0023_01C7E81A.95EE61D0" 
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>Content-Length: 11935 
>    Dude,
>If you are serious about gods creatures, don't drive - you may kill
>inscets, don't use any pharmacuticle drugs, they are tested on
>animals. Look down when you walk to ensure you dont step on any off
>gods creatures!. In fact any form of public transport will kill gods
>creatures. There is no hierarchy of life. you are a pathetic
>hypocrite, who can only resort to insults. If you clean your teeth,
>wash you are killing gods creatures bacteria!. If you want to play
>games and give me insults, then fuck off you pathetic person!!
> 
>Get a fucking life and practice what you preach
>Twat!
>
>TWO:
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>He he

And they have the cheek to claim fish have no brain! LOL

>
>>Now That you have started cross posting new groups because have nothing
>>better to do!
>>If you are not vegan, you consume animal products, just because they are
>>diguised in ingreadents or are a by product e.g wearing leather - they are
>>still animal products from all of the so called cruel methods you have
>>stated previously.
>>
>>If you are serious about gods creatures, don't drive - you may kill inscets,
>>don't use any pharmacuticle drugs, they are tested on animals. Look down
>>when you walk to ensure you dont step on any off gods creatures!. In fact
>>any form of public transport will kill gods creatures. There is no hierarchy
>>of life. you are a pathetic hypocrites, who can only resort to insults. If
>>you clean your teeth, wash you are killing gods creatures bacteria!
>>
>>"Gloria"  wrote in message
>>news:aac2d3hhhp2a8ff36i6ks08uah7n11fmoc@4ax.com...
>>> On Sat, 25 Aug 2007 21:20:34 GMT, "matthew walker"
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> >"sleepalot"  wrote in message
>>> >news:1182470382.664841.289980@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>> >> On Jun 21, 8:56 am, Polly  wrote:
>>> >>>Frequently Asked Questions
>>> >>>Isn't eating fish good for your health?
>>> >>>Fish absorb all the contamination from the water they live in, so fish
>>flesh is laced with toxins such as mercury,
>>> >>> lead, arsenic, PCBs, pesticides, and even industrial strength
>>fire-retardant.
>>> >>>Just two servings of fish per week can elevate your blood mercury
>>levels by
>>> >>>700 percent, and study after study has linked fish consumption to
>>fatigue,
>>> >>>memory loss, and decreased mental function. Click here for the facts
>>about fish flesh and your health.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>So what does the fish industry have to say for itself? It ignores the
>>fact that fish
>>> >>>flesh is toxic (the breast milk of some Inuit tribes is so concentrated
>>with poisons
>>> >>>from their fish diet that it meets the Environmental Protection
>>Agency's standards
>>> >>>for toxic waste) and points to small amounts of omega-3 fatty acids in
>>fish.
>>> >>> But you can get plenty of omega-3 fatty acids in nuts and leafy
>>> >>>green vegetables . without losing your mind.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>What's wrong with catch-and-release fishing?
>>> >>>Have you ever seen an injured dog who has been hit by a car or a cat
>>who's been
>>> >>>seriously hurt in a fight? Unless they are treated by a veterinarian,
>>these animals
>>> >>>are likely to die from their injuries. Fish are no different:
>>> >>>A hook through the mouth causes a serious and extremely painful injury
>>> >>>that is often fatal without treatment. But anglers just toss injured
>>> >>>fish back into the water-often without realizing what they've done.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>In addition to the wounds that are caused by the hook, fish released
>>after
>>> >>>being caught can suffer from loss of their protective scale coating,
>>> >>>dangerous build-up of lactic acid in their muscles, oxygen depletion,
>>> >>>and damage to their delicate fins and mouths.
>>> >>>Upon being returned to the water, these fish are easy targets for
>>predators
>>> >>>and other fishers. Researchers at the Oklahoma Department
>>> >>>of Wildlife Conservation found that as many as 43 percent of
>>> >>>fish released after being caught died within six days.
>>> >>>Catching fish is cruel and unnecessary, whether they
>>> >>>are killed on the spot or thrown back into the water, injured and
>>exhausted.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>Didn't Jesus eat fish?
>>> >>>It's an interesting question, but Biblical scholars agree that the
>>appropriate
>>> >>>question for Christians is, "What should we be eating?"
>>> >>>The Bible clearly says that our bodies are temples and that
>>> >>>we should take care of them. Yet it's a fact that all fish flesh today
>>> >>> is contaminated with heavy metals and other toxins.
>>> >>> In fact, fish flesh is just about the most polluted thing that
>>> >>> humans put into their bodies. On that basis alone,
>>> >>>Christians should not be eating it.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>Today's fishing practices are also horribly cruel to God's creatures.
>>> >>>God cares for all His creatures, and the Bible counsels compassion for
>>> >>>all beings. We all understand that it is immoral and contrary to
>>> >>>Christian mercy to torture dogs and cats. It is equally unchristian to
>>> >>> torture and kill (or pay others to torture and kill) fish and other
>>animals.
>>> >>>Although they may not be able to scream out in pain, fish have the
>>> >>>same capacity for suffering and the same right to compassion as all
>>living beings.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>For more frequently asked questions about vegetarianism, click here.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>For more frequently asked questions about other issues, click here.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>Ask Carla, PETA's kindness consultant.
>>> >
>>>
>>> >> > Didn't Jesus eat fish?
>>> >> > It's an interesting question,...
>>> >>
>>> >> Which you didn't even attempt to answer.
>>> >>
>>> >> Supposedly "Jesus" said "I am a fisher of men", so clearly he was a
>>> >> cannibal.
>>> >>
>>> >
>>>
>>> >what about feeding the 5k with 5 barley loaves an 2 fishes?
>>>
>>> http://www.vegsoc.org.au/religion_jesus.asp
>>>
>>> What Would Jesus Eat...Today
>>>
>>> As Christians, we hold that the ethical principles Jesus taught, such
>>> as love, compassion, humility, and charity, are eternal. We believe
>>> that, if Jesus were among us today and witnessed the wastefulness,
>>> environmental destructiveness, human health hazards, and animal
>>> mistreatment inherent in modern animal agriculture's methods, he would
>>> choose to abstain.
>>>
>>> Is vegetarianism biblical?
>>> The Bible depicts vegetarianism as an ideal, with a peaceful,
>>> vegetarian world at the Creation and at the end of time. God found
>>> everything in Eden "very good" immediately after giving all animals
>>> (and humans) a vegetarian diet (Genesis 1:29-30). Several prophecies,
>>> such as Isaiah 11:6-9, foresee a return to this vegetarian world,
>>> where the wolf, lamb, lion, cow, bear, snake, and little child all
>>> co-exist peacefully. Christian vegetarians believe we should strive
>>> towards the peaceful world Isaiah envisions; to try, in our own
>>> limited ways, to follow Christ's mission, expressed in the Lord's
>>> Prayer: "Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven" (Matthew 6:10,
>>> RSV).
>>>
>>> What are vegetarianism's benefits?
>>> World Hunger
>>> Jesus preached, "For I was hungry and you gave me food...as you did it
>>> to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me" (Matthew
>>> 25:35, 40). Yet, while many millions die of hunger annually and many
>>> more suffer malnutrition, worldwide one-third of all grain is fed to
>>> animals being raised for slaughter; in the U.S., the proportion is
>>> nearly three-fourths. Converting grains to meat wastes about 90% of
>>> grains' proteins, 96% of their calories, and 100% of their
>>> carbohydrates and fiber (Keith Akers, A Vegetarian Sourcebook). It is
>>> ironic that vegetarians, who are often accused of caring more about
>>> animals than humans, encourage a diet that helps feed humans, not
>>> animals.
>>>
>>> Your Health
>>> The Bible describes God's concern for humankind, and it follows that
>>> we should choose diets that help preserve human life. A pure
>>> vegetarian diet cuts cancer risk by about 40% (Cancer Res.
>>> 1975;35(suppl):3513-22), dramatically reduces heart disease risk (Dr.
>>> Neal Barnard, Food for Life), and helps people lose weight (Barnard,
>>> Turn Off the Fat Genes). Indeed, Paul says, "Do you not know that your
>>> body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, which you have from
>>> God?" (1 Corinthians 6:19).
>>>
>>> The Earth
>>> God instructed Adam to "till" and "keep" the Garden of Eden (Genesis
>>> 2:15), and by analogy we may see our task as to care for the rest of
>>> Creation. In the U.S., it takes far more energy, water, and other
>>> resources to feed a meat-eater than a vegetarian. By helping preserve
>>> scarce resources and minimizing environmental degradation,
>>> vegetarianism shows respect for Creation.
>>>
>>> Animal Welfare
>>> Jesus said that God feeds the birds of the air (Matthew 6:26) and does
>>> not forget sparrows (Luke 12:6). The Hebrew writings forbid inhumane
>>> slaughter or cruelty towards beasts of burden (Exodus 23:5,
>>> Deuteronomy 22:6-7, 25:4). In the U.S., nearly all animal foods are
>>> derived from intensive, "factory farms." Animals suffer greatly from
>>> stressful crowding, barren environments that frustrate their
>>> instinctive drives, and manipulations without anesthesia, such as
>>> debeaking chicks, cutting off pigs' tails, and castrating and branding
>>> cattle (Erik Marcus, Vegan: The New ethics of Eating).
>>>
>>> Farmers routinely use antibiotics to prevent infections in crowded,
>>> stressed animals, and this promotes dangerous antibiotic-resistance
>>> among bacteria. You can prevent infections by cooking meat, but this
>>> generates cancer-causing heterocyclic amines. Farmers also add
>>> hormones, harmful to human health, to stimulate excessive muscle
>>> development in animals, causing painful lameness. Slaughter typically
>>> involves terror and, often, great pain (Gail Eisnitz, Slaughterhouse).
>>>
>>> Didn't God put animals here for our use?
>>> Adam's "dominion" over animals (Genesis 1:26, 28), we believe, conveys
>>> sacred stewardship, since God then prescribed a vegetarian diet
>>> (Genesis 1:29-30) in a world God found "very good" (1:31). Genesis
>>> 2:18-19 relates, "Then the Lord God said, ?It is not good that man
>>> should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him'" and God then
>>> created animals. According to this passage, animals were made as
>>> Adam's companions and helpers, certainly not his supper.
>>>
>>> Didn't God give people permission to eat meat?
>>> Genesis 9:2-4 describes God giving Noah permission to eat meat, but
>>> this may have been because all plants were destroyed by the Flood and
>>> does not demonstrate that meat-eating is God's highest ideal.
>>> Similarly, there is no prohibition of slavery in the Bible, though it
>>> clearly does not agree with the highest biblical ideal. Throughout the
>>> Bible, people are encouraged to use their own free will to decide
>>> whether or not they will behave according to God's highest ideal.
>>>
>>> Does God care for animals?
>>> Proverbs 12:10 teaches, "A righteous man has regard for the life of
>>> his beast," while the Psalmist maintains that "The Lord is good to
>>> all, and his compassion is over all he has made" (Psalms 145:9).
>>>
>>> The Bible describes God's concern for animals repeatedly (Matthew
>>> 10:29, 12:11-12, 18:12-14) and forbids cruelty (Deuteronomy 22:10,
>>> 25:4). Importantly, five times after the flood God makes a covenant
>>> with animals as well as with humans. All creatures share in the
>>> Sabbath rest (Exodus 20:10, Deuteronomy 5:14). The Bible describes
>>> animals praising God (Psalms 148:7-10, 150:6), shows animals present
>>> in eternity (Isaiah 65:25, Revelation 5:13) and affirms that God
>>> preserves animals (Psalms 36:6, Ephesians 1:10, Colossians 1:20).
>>> Animals and humans look to God for sustenance (Psalms 104:27-31,
>>> 147:9, Matthew 6:26, Luke 12:6) and deliverance (Jonah 3:7-9, Romans
>>> 8:18-23).
>>>
>>> Does vegetarianism equate human and animal life?
>>> Vegetarianism simply reflects respect for Creation. Jesus says, "Are
>>> not five sparrows sold for two pennies? And not one of them is
>>> forgotten before God.... Fear not; you are of more value than many
>>> sparrows" (Luke 12:6-7). This passage relates that God values humans
>>> more than animals, but God remains concerned about all creatures. We
>>> can have compassion for animals, and allow them to live full and
>>> normal lives, without equating human and animal life.
>>>
>>> What about animal sacrifices?
>>> There are many different opinions on this question's answer, even
>>> among Christian vegetarians. Some believe that God accepted sacrifices
>>> at an earlier and more primitive time, but that sacrifices are
>>> certainly not required or even desired now, since Jesus' death atoned
>>> for our sins in a very final way. Others question whether God ever
>>> desired sacrifices; several prophets, including Isaiah, Jeremiah,
>>> Micah, Amos, and Hosea, objected to sacrifice, often emphasizing that
>>> God prefers righteousness. Indeed, Jesus twice quoted Hosea (6:6),
>>> saying, "I desire mercy and not sacrifice" (Matthew 9:13, 12:7).
>>> Importantly, unlike sacrificed animals, Jesus chose to sacrifice
>>> himself to fulfill God's will. Christians, being a new creation in
>>> Christ, may model Christ by choosing a loving relationship with all
>>> creation, which sometimes requires self-sacrifice.
>>>
>>> Didn't Jesus eat meat?
>>> Luke 24:43 relates that Jesus ate fish. However, many Christian
>>> vegetarians believe that Jesus would be a vegetarian today.
>>>
>>> What about the passage in which Peter is instructed to "kill and eat"
>>> all creatures (Acts 10:13, 11:7)?
>>> Many Christians, reading on, find that this passage is not a literal
>>> instruction to consume flesh. Peter, pondering this vision's meaning,
>>> concluded, "God has shown me that I should not call any man common or
>>> unclean" (Acts 10:28). However one interprets this passage, it does
>>> not require that we consume meat today.
>>>
>>> Should we accept meat as a gift, given that 1 Timothy 4:4 says,
>>> "everything created by God is good"?
>>> Paul also condoned meat-eating nearly 2000 years ago in 1 Corinthians
>>> 10:25, but modern animal agriculture is a human creation, and it harms
>>> humans, animals, and the Earth.
>>>
>>> Have nonvegetarian Christian saints and leaders been immoral?
>>> We should not judge those who may have eaten meat, owned slaves, or
>>> done other things that we believe are not God's highest ideals for
>>> humankind. We should simply do the best we can to express Christ's
>>> love, compassion, and peace. Throughout history, many people, in
>>> ignorance, have done hurtful things while concurrently showing great
>>> love and compassion in other ways.
>>>
>>> Have there been many vegetarian Christians?
>>> Many Christians have received the Gospel as encouraging vegetarianism.
>>> Several early Christian groups, including the Nazarenes, Ebionites,
>>> Elchasaites, Ossaeans, Cathars, and the Bogomils, encouraged
>>> vegetarianism. Since then, the Trappist, Benedictine, and Carthusian
>>> orders have advocated vegetarianism, as have Seventh-day Adventists.
>>> In the 19th century, members of the Bible Christian sect established
>>> the first vegetarian groups in England and the U.S.
>>>
>>> Vegetarian Christians have included Basil the Great, John Chrysostom,
>>> Tertullian, Origen, Clement of Alexandria, John Wesley (Methodism's
>>> founder), Ellen G. White (a Seventh-day Adventists founder), Salvation
>>> Army co-founders William and Catherine Booth, Leo Tolstoy, and Albert
>>> Schweitzer.
>>>
>>> Why aren't more Christians vegetarians?
>>> The most important reason is lack of awareness. If everyone saw the
>>> rough treatment, crowded conditions, and general misery of animals on
>>> factory farms, and then looked into the terrified eyes of animals at
>>> slaughterhouses, many more would become vegetarians. Some might still
>>> eat meat, but even then it would be because they didn't recognize the
>>> suffering or they incorrectly believed that meat is "necessary" for
>>> good health. Other effects of modern animal agriculture, such as
>>> resource depletion and the consequent environmental damage, are not so
>>> readily apparent.
>>>
>>> Don't laws ensure farm animal welfare?
>>> In many countries, including the U.S., animals on farms are
>>> specifically exempted from all humane legislation. At the
>>> slaughterhouse, "humane slaughter" laws are weak and poorly enforced.
>>>
>>> Instead of advocating vegetarianism, shouldn't we seek reforms?
>>> There are many ways to promote compassion, and many vegetarians are
>>> seeking reforms. While we carry out whatever public mission we feel is
>>> appropriate, we believe that people should be aware of the many
>>> negative effects of animal-based diet and agriculture, and we feel
>>> compelled to be vegetarians ourselves.
>>>
>>> Would animals overrun the earth if everyone became vegetarian?
>>> No. There are many species we don't eat, and they haven't overrun the
>>> earth. Human exploitation of the earth, in part to feed vast
>>> quantities of grain to livestock, is the chief reason for the
>>> environmental crisis.
>>>
>>> As the demand for animal-derived foods gradually decreases, fewer
>>> animals will be bred. In the unlikely event that many animals needed
>>> homes, compassionate people would find compassionate solutions. Such
>>> people already care for formerly farmed animals (see
>>> http://www.farmsanctuary.org).
>>>
>>> What would happen to butchers, cattle ranchers, and others who depend
>>> on animal agriculture for a livelihood?
>>> The abolition of slavery was difficult for former slaveholders; in a
>>> similar way, those dependent on animal agriculture may experience
>>> hardship when the world finally realizes that vegetarianism is
>>> necessary and desirable. Fortunately, job displacement will be
>>> minimal, because farm employment is already low and new markets for
>>> nonanimal foods will grow as demand for meat falls. If necessary,
>>> retraining or even outright support for those inconvenienced by this
>>> transition might be appropriate.
>>>
>>> Why should we be so concerned about animals when there are so many
>>> critical problems related to people today?
>>> Virtually all contemporary social problems are interconnected. Indeed,
>>> vegetarianism expresses compassion towards humans as well as animals,
>>> since it results in healthier people, helps feed the hungry, and
>>> promotes a cleaner, more sustainable environment.
>>>
>>> Since animals eat each other, what's wrong with humans eating animals?
>>> What animals do should not dictate human morality. Other animals may
>>> have to eat each other to live, but humans have a choice. We believe
>>> that vegetarianism expresses the love, compassion, and peace of
>>> Christ.
>>>
>>> Are humans naturally predators and therefore carnivores?
>>> While humans can digest flesh, and it is likely that our ancestors did
>>> consume small amounts of meat, our anatomy much more strongly
>>> resembles that of plant-eating creatures. For example: like herbivores
>>> (but unlike carnivores), our colons are long and complex (not simple
>>> and short); our intestines are 10-11 times longer than our bodies (not
>>> 3-6 times longer); our saliva contains digestive enzymes (unlike
>>> carnivores); our dental incisors are broad, flattened, and
>>> spade-shaped (not short and pointed); our canine teeth are short and
>>> blunted (not long, sharp, and curved); our molars are flattened with
>>> nodular cusps (not sharp blades like many carnivores); and our nails
>>> are flattened (not sharp claws).
>>>
>>> The millions of healthy vegetarians (who tend to outlive
>>> nonvegetarians) demonstrate that it is not necessary to eat meat.
>>>
>>> How would a Christian vegetarian celebrate holidays such as Easter,
>>> Thanksgiving, and Christmas?
>>> Vegetarians celebrate these holidays fully and joyously without
>>> consuming animals. Numerous cookbooks offer tasty vegetarian meals,
>>> from quick and easy to complex and elegant.
>>>
>>> Should a Christian also abstain from eggs, milk, leather, wool, and
>>> other animal products?
>>> A place to start is to become vegetarian. Then, we believe, Christians
>>> should try to reduce their consumption of animal products as much as
>>> possible. Vegetarians make a compassionate choice that expresses a
>>> faith in God's creative goodness. Many vegetarians, aware of the
>>> cruelties associated with other animal products, eventually choose not
>>> to consume them.
>>>
>>> How can I witness to the peace of Christ through diet?
>>> We should always remember that Christians strive to follow Christ's
>>> example of pure love and compassion, and most Christians would prefer
>>> that their diets not hurt animals, squander scarce resources, and harm
>>> their bodies. We need to show fellow Christians, in a loving and
>>> compassionate way, that nonanimal foods are tasty, convenient, and
>>> nutritious. The Christian Vegetarian Association's web site offers
>>> many ideas on how to promote vegetarianism within your congregation.
>>>
>>> Christian Vegetarian Association
>>> witnessing to the love, compassion, and peace of Christ by adopting
>>> and advocating a vegetarian diet
>>>
>>> Bibliography
>>>
>>> Keith Akers. The Lost Religion of Jesus.
>>> J.R. Hyland. God's Covenant with Animals.
>>> Andrew Linzey. Animal Gospel.
>>> George H. Malkmus. Why Christians Get Sick.
>>> Vesanto Melina et al. Becoming Vegetarian.
>>> Stephen H. Webb. Christian Vegetarianism; also, On God and Dogs.
>>> Richard Alan Young. Is God a Vegetarian?
>>>
>>>
>>> Web Sites
>>> *All Creatures
>>> http://www.all-creatures.org
>>> *Humane Religion
>>> http://www.humanereligion.org
>>> *Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine
>>> http://www.pcrm.org
>>> *Vegan Outreach (phone 412-968-0268)
>>> http://www.veganoutreach.org
>>> *Christian Vegetarian Association
>>> http://www.christianveg.com
>>> *Compassionate Spirit
>>> http://www.compassionatespirit.com
>>> By Peter Milne(Click for profile)
>>>
>>


-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"Pearl" <pearlsinger@%%%mail.com> wrote in message 
news:u7v8d3pqkel4vh7vfduo4ilkon89bfnk84@4ax.com...

> And they have the cheek to claim fish have no brain! LOL

Learn to snip you fucking cripple.

Think of those dinosaurs that went and died to produce the fossil fuels 
needed for you to go and blow 28KB of your moron post.

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:41:34 +0100, "MunterGatherer"
 wrote:

>On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 13:08:58 +0100, Gloria
> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 22:26:41 GMT, "matthew walker"
>> wrote:
>>
>>The village idiot Garden Gnome angling stalker known as  "matthew
>>walker" has taken to sending abusive emails and registering me for
>>porno websights, some of which are run by the notorious child porn
>>king and gnome Derek Moody.
>>
>>An example of the mindset of an angling gnome. Note the IPs the
>>village idiot obviously knows nothing about. Someone educate the loser
>>please. LOL
>>
>>ONE: 
>>
>>X-Apparently-To: letsstandup2bullies@yahoo.co.uk via 217.146.176.53;
>>Sun, 26 Aug 2007 18:06:49 +0000 
>>X-Originating-IP: [81.103.221.48] 
>>Return-Path:  
>>Authentication-Results: mta135.mail.ukl.yahoo.com from=ntlworld.com;
>>domainkeys=neutral (no sig) 
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>>(81.103.221.48) by mta135.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; Sun, 26 Aug
>>2007 18:06:48 +0000 
>>Received: from aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by
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>>
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>><20070826180645.JTZS29112.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@nonei3ghqworyw>
>>for ; Sun, 26 Aug 2007 19:06:45 +0100
>>Message-ID: <002601c7e812$37b5b8a0$0101a8c0@nonei3ghqworyw> 
>>From: "matthew walker"   Add to Address
>>Book 
>>To: "Mr Lane"  
>>References:  
>>Subject: Re: Cruel angling FAQs http://www.fishinghurts.com/ 
>>Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 19:52:08 +0100 
>>MIME-Version: 1.0 
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>>boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0023_01C7E81A.95EE61D0" 
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>>Content-Length: 11935 
>>    Dude,
>>If you are serious about gods creatures, don't drive - you may kill
>>inscets, don't use any pharmacuticle drugs, they are tested on
>>animals. Look down when you walk to ensure you dont step on any off
>>gods creatures!. In fact any form of public transport will kill gods
>>creatures. There is no hierarchy of life. you are a pathetic
>>hypocrite, who can only resort to insults. If you clean your teeth,
>>wash you are killing gods creatures bacteria!. If you want to play
>>games and give me insults, then fuck off you pathetic person!!
>> 
>>Get a fucking life and practice what you preach
>>Twat!
>>
>>TWO:
>>X-Apparently-To: letsstandup2bullies@yahoo.co.uk via 217.146.176.53;
>>Sun, 26 Aug 2007 23:25:07 +0000 
>>X-Originating-IP: [216.34.38.108] 
>>Return-Path:
>> 
>>Authentication-Results: mta136.mail.ukl.yahoo.com
>>from=adultfriendfinder.com; domainkeys=neutral (no sig) 
>>Received: from 216.34.38.108 (EHLO e108.friendfinderinc.com)
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>>He he
>
>And they have the cheek to claim fish have no brain! LOL


>Learn to snip you fucking cripple.

Now, now. That's no way for a gnome to treat a lady!

>Think of those dinosaurs that went and died

They didn't die at the hands of garden gnome anglers for fun did they?

> to produce the fossil fuels 
>needed for you to go and blow .

it out your arse gnomey! 



>>
>>>Now That you have started cross posting new groups because have nothing
>>>better to do!
>>>If you are not vegan, you consume animal products, just because they are
>>>diguised in ingreadents or are a by product e.g wearing leather - they are
>>>still animal products from all of the so called cruel methods you have
>>>stated previously.
>>>
>>>If you are serious about gods creatures, don't drive - you may kill inscets,
>>>don't use any pharmacuticle drugs, they are tested on animals. Look down
>>>when you walk to ensure you dont step on any off gods creatures!. In fact
>>>any form of public transport will kill gods creatures. There is no hierarchy
>>>of life. you are a pathetic hypocrites, who can only resort to insults. If
>>>you clean your teeth, wash you are killing gods creatures bacteria!
>>>
>>>"Gloria"  wrote in message
>>>news:aac2d3hhhp2a8ff36i6ks08uah7n11fmoc@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sat, 25 Aug 2007 21:20:34 GMT, "matthew walker"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >"sleepalot"  wrote in message
>>>> >news:1182470382.664841.289980@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>>> >> On Jun 21, 8:56 am, Polly  wrote:
>>>> >>>Frequently Asked Questions
>>>> >>>Isn't eating fish good for your health?
>>>> >>>Fish absorb all the contamination from the water they live in, so fish
>>>flesh is laced with toxins such as mercury,
>>>> >>> lead, arsenic, PCBs, pesticides, and even industrial strength
>>>fire-retardant.
>>>> >>>Just two servings of fish per week can elevate your blood mercury
>>>levels by
>>>> >>>700 percent, and study after study has linked fish consumption to
>>>fatigue,
>>>> >>>memory loss, and decreased mental function. Click here for the facts
>>>about fish flesh and your health.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>So what does the fish industry have to say for itself? It ignores the
>>>fact that fish
>>>> >>>flesh is toxic (the breast milk of some Inuit tribes is so concentrated
>>>with poisons
>>>> >>>from their fish diet that it meets the Environmental Protection
>>>Agency's standards
>>>> >>>for toxic waste) and points to small amounts of omega-3 fatty acids in
>>>fish.
>>>> >>> But you can get plenty of omega-3 fatty acids in nuts and leafy
>>>> >>>green vegetables . without losing your mind.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>What's wrong with catch-and-release fishing?
>>>> >>>Have you ever seen an injured dog who has been hit by a car or a cat
>>>who's been
>>>> >>>seriously hurt in a fight? Unless they are treated by a veterinarian,
>>>these animals
>>>> >>>are likely to die from their injuries. Fish are no different:
>>>> >>>A hook through the mouth causes a serious and extremely painful injury
>>>> >>>that is often fatal without treatment. But anglers just toss injured
>>>> >>>fish back into the water-often without realizing what they've done.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>In addition to the wounds that are caused by the hook, fish released
>>>after
>>>> >>>being caught can suffer from loss of their protective scale coating,
>>>> >>>dangerous build-up of lactic acid in their muscles, oxygen depletion,
>>>> >>>and damage to their delicate fins and mouths.
>>>> >>>Upon being returned to the water, these fish are easy targets for
>>>predators
>>>> >>>and other fishers. Researchers at the Oklahoma Department
>>>> >>>of Wildlife Conservation found that as many as 43 percent of
>>>> >>>fish released after being caught died within six days.
>>>> >>>Catching fish is cruel and unnecessary, whether they
>>>> >>>are killed on the spot or thrown back into the water, injured and
>>>exhausted.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>Didn't Jesus eat fish?
>>>> >>>It's an interesting question, but Biblical scholars agree that the
>>>appropriate
>>>> >>>question for Christians is, "What should we be eating?"
>>>> >>>The Bible clearly says that our bodies are temples and that
>>>> >>>we should take care of them. Yet it's a fact that all fish flesh today
>>>> >>> is contaminated with heavy metals and other toxins.
>>>> >>> In fact, fish flesh is just about the most polluted thing that
>>>> >>> humans put into their bodies. On that basis alone,
>>>> >>>Christians should not be eating it.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>Today's fishing practices are also horribly cruel to God's creatures.
>>>> >>>God cares for all His creatures, and the Bible counsels compassion for
>>>> >>>all beings. We all understand that it is immoral and contrary to
>>>> >>>Christian mercy to torture dogs and cats. It is equally unchristian to
>>>> >>> torture and kill (or pay others to torture and kill) fish and other
>>>animals.
>>>> >>>Although they may not be able to scream out in pain, fish have the
>>>> >>>same capacity for suffering and the same right to compassion as all
>>>living beings.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>For more frequently asked questions about vegetarianism, click here.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>For more frequently asked questions about other issues, click here.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>Ask Carla, PETA's kindness consultant.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> >> > Didn't Jesus eat fish?
>>>> >> > It's an interesting question,...
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Which you didn't even attempt to answer.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Supposedly "Jesus" said "I am a fisher of men", so clearly he was a
>>>> >> cannibal.
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> >what about feeding the 5k with 5 barley loaves an 2 fishes?
>>>>
>>>> http://www.vegsoc.org.au/religion_jesus.asp
>>>>
>>>> What Would Jesus Eat...Today
>>>>
>>>> As Christians, we hold that the ethical principles Jesus taught, such
>>>> as love, compassion, humility, and charity, are eternal. We believe
>>>> that, if Jesus were among us today and witnessed the wastefulness,
>>>> environmental destructiveness, human health hazards, and animal
>>>> mistreatment inherent in modern animal agriculture's methods, he would
>>>> choose to abstain.
>>>>
>>>> Is vegetarianism biblical?
>>>> The Bible depicts vegetarianism as an ideal, with a peaceful,
>>>> vegetarian world at the Creation and at the end of time. God found
>>>> everything in Eden "very good" immediately after giving all animals
>>>> (and humans) a vegetarian diet (Genesis 1:29-30). Several prophecies,
>>>> such as Isaiah 11:6-9, foresee a return to this vegetarian world,
>>>> where the wolf, lamb, lion, cow, bear, snake, and little child all
>>>> co-exist peacefully. Christian vegetarians believe we should strive
>>>> towards the peaceful world Isaiah envisions; to try, in our own
>>>> limited ways, to follow Christ's mission, expressed in the Lord's
>>>> Prayer: "Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven" (Matthew 6:10,
>>>> RSV).
>>>>
>>>> What are vegetarianism's benefits?
>>>> World Hunger
>>>> Jesus preached, "For I was hungry and you gave me food...as you did it
>>>> to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me" (Matthew
>>>> 25:35, 40). Yet, while many millions die of hunger annually and many
>>>> more suffer malnutrition, worldwide one-third of all grain is fed to
>>>> animals being raised for slaughter; in the U.S., the proportion is
>>>> nearly three-fourths. Converting grains to meat wastes about 90% of
>>>> grains' proteins, 96% of their calories, and 100% of their
>>>> carbohydrates and fiber (Keith Akers, A Vegetarian Sourcebook). It is
>>>> ironic that vegetarians, who are often accused of caring more about
>>>> animals than humans, encourage a diet that helps feed humans, not
>>>> animals.
>>>>
>>>> Your Health
>>>> The Bible describes God's concern for humankind, and it follows that
>>>> we should choose diets that help preserve human life. A pure
>>>> vegetarian diet cuts cancer risk by about 40% (Cancer Res.
>>>> 1975;35(suppl):3513-22), dramatically reduces heart disease risk (Dr.
>>>> Neal Barnard, Food for Life), and helps people lose weight (Barnard,
>>>> Turn Off the Fat Genes). Indeed, Paul says, "Do you not know that your
>>>> body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, which you have from
>>>> God?" (1 Corinthians 6:19).
>>>>
>>>> The Earth
>>>> God instructed Adam to "till" and "keep" the Garden of Eden (Genesis
>>>> 2:15), and by analogy we may see our task as to care for the rest of
>>>> Creation. In the U.S., it takes far more energy, water, and other
>>>> resources to feed a meat-eater than a vegetarian. By helping preserve
>>>> scarce resources and minimizing environmental degradation,
>>>> vegetarianism shows respect for Creation.
>>>>
>>>> Animal Welfare
>>>> Jesus said that God feeds the birds of the air (Matthew 6:26) and does
>>>> not forget sparrows (Luke 12:6). The Hebrew writings forbid inhumane
>>>> slaughter or cruelty towards beasts of burden (Exodus 23:5,
>>>> Deuteronomy 22:6-7, 25:4). In the U.S., nearly all animal foods are
>>>> derived from intensive, "factory farms." Animals suffer greatly from
>>>> stressful crowding, barren environments that frustrate their
>>>> instinctive drives, and manipulations without anesthesia, such as
>>>> debeaking chicks, cutting off pigs' tails, and castrating and branding
>>>> cattle (Erik Marcus, Vegan: The New ethics of Eating).
>>>>
>>>> Farmers routinely use antibiotics to prevent infections in crowded,
>>>> stressed animals, and this promotes dangerous antibiotic-resistance
>>>> among bacteria. You can prevent infections by cooking meat, but this
>>>> generates cancer-causing heterocyclic amines. Farmers also add
>>>> hormones, harmful to human health, to stimulate excessive muscle
>>>> development in animals, causing painful lameness. Slaughter typically
>>>> involves terror and, often, great pain (Gail Eisnitz, Slaughterhouse).
>>>>
>>>> Didn't God put animals here for our use?
>>>> Adam's "dominion" over animals (Genesis 1:26, 28), we believe, conveys
>>>> sacred stewardship, since God then prescribed a vegetarian diet
>>>> (Genesis 1:29-30) in a world God found "very good" (1:31). Genesis
>>>> 2:18-19 relates, "Then the Lord God said, ?It is not good that man
>>>> should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him'" and God then
>>>> created animals. According to this passage, animals were made as
>>>> Adam's companions and helpers, certainly not his supper.
>>>>
>>>> Didn't God give people permission to eat meat?
>>>> Genesis 9:2-4 describes God giving Noah permission to eat meat, but
>>>> this may have been because all plants were destroyed by the Flood and
>>>> does not demonstrate that meat-eating is God's highest ideal.
>>>> Similarly, there is no prohibition of slavery in the Bible, though it
>>>> clearly does not agree with the highest biblical ideal. Throughout the
>>>> Bible, people are encouraged to use their own free will to decide
>>>> whether or not they will behave according to God's highest ideal.
>>>>
>>>> Does God care for animals?
>>>> Proverbs 12:10 teaches, "A righteous man has regard for the life of
>>>> his beast," while the Psalmist maintains that "The Lord is good to
>>>> all, and his compassion is over all he has made" (Psalms 145:9).
>>>>
>>>> The Bible describes God's concern for animals repeatedly (Matthew
>>>> 10:29, 12:11-12, 18:12-14) and forbids cruelty (Deuteronomy 22:10,
>>>> 25:4). Importantly, five times after the flood God makes a covenant
>>>> with animals as well as with humans. All creatures share in the
>>>> Sabbath rest (Exodus 20:10, Deuteronomy 5:14). The Bible describes
>>>> animals praising God (Psalms 148:7-10, 150:6), shows animals present
>>>> in eternity (Isaiah 65:25, Revelation 5:13) and affirms that God
>>>> preserves animals (Psalms 36:6, Ephesians 1:10, Colossians 1:20).
>>>> Animals and humans look to God for sustenance (Psalms 104:27-31,
>>>> 147:9, Matthew 6:26, Luke 12:6) and deliverance (Jonah 3:7-9, Romans
>>>> 8:18-23).
>>>>
>>>> Does vegetarianism equate human and animal life?
>>>> Vegetarianism simply reflects respect for Creation. Jesus says, "Are
>>>> not five sparrows sold for two pennies? And not one of them is
>>>> forgotten before God.... Fear not; you are of more value than many
>>>> sparrows" (Luke 12:6-7). This passage relates that God values humans
>>>> more than animals, but God remains concerned about all creatures. We
>>>> can have compassion for animals, and allow them to live full and
>>>> normal lives, without equating human and animal life.
>>>>
>>>> What about animal sacrifices?
>>>> There are many different opinions on this question's answer, even
>>>> among Christian vegetarians. Some believe that God accepted sacrifices
>>>> at an earlier and more primitive time, but that sacrifices are
>>>> certainly not required or even desired now, since Jesus' death atoned
>>>> for our sins in a very final way. Others question whether God ever
>>>> desired sacrifices; several prophets, including Isaiah, Jeremiah,
>>>> Micah, Amos, and Hosea, objected to sacrifice, often emphasizing that
>>>> God prefers righteousness. Indeed, Jesus twice quoted Hosea (6:6),
>>>> saying, "I desire mercy and not sacrifice" (Matthew 9:13, 12:7).
>>>> Importantly, unlike sacrificed animals, Jesus chose to sacrifice
>>>> himself to fulfill God's will. Christians, being a new creation in
>>>> Christ, may model Christ by choosing a loving relationship with all
>>>> creation, which sometimes requires self-sacrifice.
>>>>
>>>> Didn't Jesus eat meat?
>>>> Luke 24:43 relates that Jesus ate fish. However, many Christian
>>>> vegetarians believe that Jesus would be a vegetarian today.
>>>>
>>>> What about the passage in which Peter is instructed to "kill and eat"
>>>> all creatures (Acts 10:13, 11:7)?
>>>> Many Christians, reading on, find that this passage is not a literal
>>>> instruction to consume flesh. Peter, pondering this vision's meaning,
>>>> concluded, "God has shown me that I should not call any man common or
>>>> unclean" (Acts 10:28). However one interprets this passage, it does
>>>> not require that we consume meat today.
>>>>
>>>> Should we accept meat as a gift, given that 1 Timothy 4:4 says,
>>>> "everything created by God is good"?
>>>> Paul also condoned meat-eating nearly 2000 years ago in 1 Corinthians
>>>> 10:25, but modern animal agriculture is a human creation, and it harms
>>>> humans, animals, and the Earth.
>>>>
>>>> Have nonvegetarian Christian saints and leaders been immoral?
>>>> We should not judge those who may have eaten meat, owned slaves, or
>>>> done other things that we believe are not God's highest ideals for
>>>> humankind. We should simply do the best we can to express Christ's
>>>> love, compassion, and peace. Throughout history, many people, in
>>>> ignorance, have done hurtful things while concurrently showing great
>>>> love and compassion in other ways.
>>>>
>>>> Have there been many vegetarian Christians?
>>>> Many Christians have received the Gospel as encouraging vegetarianism.
>>>> Several early Christian groups, including the Nazarenes, Ebionites,
>>>> Elchasaites, Ossaeans, Cathars, and the Bogomils, encouraged
>>>> vegetarianism. Since then, the Trappist, Benedictine, and Carthusian
>>>> orders have advocated vegetarianism, as have Seventh-day Adventists.
>>>> In the 19th century, members of the Bible Christian sect established
>>>> the first vegetarian groups in England and the U.S.
>>>>
>>>> Vegetarian Christians have included Basil the Great, John Chrysostom,
>>>> Tertullian, Origen, Clement of Alexandria, John Wesley (Methodism's
>>>> founder), Ellen G. White (a Seventh-day Adventists founder), Salvation
>>>> Army co-founders William and Catherine Booth, Leo Tolstoy, and Albert
>>>> Schweitzer.
>>>>
>>>> Why aren't more Christians vegetarians?
>>>> The most important reason is lack of awareness. If everyone saw the
>>>> rough treatment, crowded conditions, and general misery of animals on
>>>> factory farms, and then looked into the terrified eyes of animals at
>>>> slaughterhouses, many more would become vegetarians. Some might still
>>>> eat meat, but even then it would be because they didn't recognize the
>>>> suffering or they incorrectly believed that meat is "necessary" for
>>>> good health. Other effects of modern animal agriculture, such as
>>>> resource depletion and the consequent environmental damage, are not so
>>>> readily apparent.
>>>>
>>>> Don't laws ensure farm animal welfare?
>>>> In many countries, including the U.S., animals on farms are
>>>> specifically exempted from all humane legislation. At the
>>>> slaughterhouse, "humane slaughter" laws are weak and poorly enforced.
>>>>
>>>> Instead of advocating vegetarianism, shouldn't we seek reforms?
>>>> There are many ways to promote compassion, and many vegetarians are
>>>> seeking reforms. While we carry out whatever public mission we feel is
>>>> appropriate, we believe that people should be aware of the many
>>>> negative effects of animal-based diet and agriculture, and we feel
>>>> compelled to be vegetarians ourselves.
>>>>
>>>> Would animals overrun the earth if everyone became vegetarian?
>>>> No. There are many species we don't eat, and they haven't overrun the
>>>> earth. Human exploitation of the earth, in part to feed vast
>>>> quantities of grain to livestock, is the chief reason for the
>>>> environmental crisis.
>>>>
>>>> As the demand for animal-derived foods gradually decreases, fewer
>>>> animals will be bred. In the unlikely event that many animals needed
>>>> homes, compassionate people would find compassionate solutions. Such
>>>> people already care for formerly farmed animals (see
>>>> http://www.farmsanctuary.org).
>>>>
>>>> What would happen to butchers, cattle ranchers, and others who depend
>>>> on animal agriculture for a livelihood?
>>>> The abolition of slavery was difficult for former slaveholders; in a
>>>> similar way, those dependent on animal agriculture may experience
>>>> hardship when the world finally realizes that vegetarianism is
>>>> necessary and desirable. Fortunately, job displacement will be
>>>> minimal, because farm employment is already low and new markets for
>>>> nonanimal foods will grow as demand for meat falls. If necessary,
>>>> retraining or even outright support for those inconvenienced by this
>>>> transition might be appropriate.
>>>>
>>>> Why should we be so concerned about animals when there are so many
>>>> critical problems related to people today?
>>>> Virtually all contemporary social problems are interconnected. Indeed,
>>>> vegetarianism expresses compassion towards humans as well as animals,
>>>> since it results in healthier people, helps feed the hungry, and
>>>> promotes a cleaner, more sustainable environment.
>>>>
>>>> Since animals eat each other, what's wrong with humans eating animals?
>>>> What animals do should not dictate human morality. Other animals may
>>>> have to eat each other to live, but humans have a choice. We believe
>>>> that vegetarianism expresses the love, compassion, and peace of
>>>> Christ.
>>>>
>>>> Are humans naturally predators and therefore carnivores?
>>>> While humans can digest flesh, and it is likely that our ancestors did
>>>> consume small amounts of meat, our anatomy much more strongly
>>>> resembles that of plant-eating creatures. For example: like herbivores
>>>> (but unlike carnivores), our colons are long and complex (not simple
>>>> and short); our intestines are 10-11 times longer than our bodies (not
>>>> 3-6 times longer); our saliva contains digestive enzymes (unlike
>>>> carnivores); our dental incisors are broad, flattened, and
>>>> spade-shaped (not short and pointed); our canine teeth are short and
>>>> blunted (not long, sharp, and curved); our molars are flattened with
>>>> nodular cusps (not sharp blades like many carnivores); and our nails
>>>> are flattened (not sharp claws).
>>>>
>>>> The millions of healthy vegetarians (who tend to outlive
>>>> nonvegetarians) demonstrate that it is not necessary to eat meat.
>>>>
>>>> How would a Christian vegetarian celebrate holidays such as Easter,
>>>> Thanksgiving, and Christmas?
>>>> Vegetarians celebrate these holidays fully and joyously without
>>>> consuming animals. Numerous cookbooks offer tasty vegetarian meals,
>>>> from quick and easy to complex and elegant.
>>>>
>>>> Should a Christian also abstain from eggs, milk, leather, wool, and
>>>> other animal products?
>>>> A place to start is to become vegetarian. Then, we believe, Christians
>>>> should try to reduce their consumption of animal products as much as
>>>> possible. Vegetarians make a compassionate choice that expresses a
>>>> faith in God's creative goodness. Many vegetarians, aware of the
>>>> cruelties associated with other animal products, eventually choose not
>>>> to consume them.
>>>>
>>>> How can I witness to the peace of Christ through diet?
>>>> We should always remember that Christians strive to follow Christ's
>>>> example of pure love and compassion, and most Christians would prefer
>>>> that their diets not hurt animals, squander scarce resources, and harm
>>>> their bodies. We need to show fellow Christians, in a loving and
>>>> compassionate way, that nonanimal foods are tasty, convenient, and
>>>> nutritious. The Christian Vegetarian Association's web site offers
>>>> many ideas on how to promote vegetarianism within your congregation.
>>>>
>>>> Christian Vegetarian Association
>>>> witnessing to the love, compassion, and peace of Christ by adopting
>>>> and advocating a vegetarian diet
>>>>
>>>> Bibliography
>>>>
>>>> Keith Akers. The Lost Religion of Jesus.
>>>> J.R. Hyland. God's Covenant with Animals.
>>>> Andrew Linzey. Animal Gospel.
>>>> George H. Malkmus. Why Christians Get Sick.
>>>> Vesanto Melina et al. Becoming Vegetarian.
>>>> Stephen H. Webb. Christian Vegetarianism; also, On God and Dogs.
>>>> Richard Alan Young. Is God a Vegetarian?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Web Sites
>>>> *All Creatures
>>>> http://www.all-creatures.org
>>>> *Humane Religion
>>>> http://www.humanereligion.org
>>>> *Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine
>>>> http://www.pcrm.org
>>>> *Vegan Outreach (phone 412-968-0268)
>>>> http://www.veganoutreach.org
>>>> *Christian Vegetarian Association
>>>> http://www.christianveg.com
>>>> *Compassionate Spirit
>>>> http://www.compassionatespirit.com
>>>> By Peter Milne(Click for profile)
>>>>
>>>
>
>
>-- 
>Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

>

--










Hansom <0>++<0>




Avoid the rush at the last judgement. Be converted now instead!


PRAYER FOR A NATION


When Pastor Joe Wright, of Central Christian Church, was asked 
to open the new session of the Kansas Senate, everyone was expecting
 the usual politically correct generalities. 
But what they heard instead was this:

Heavenly Father, we come before You today to ask Your forgiveness 
and seek your direction and guidance. 
We know Your Word says, 
‘Woe on those who call evil good,’ but that’s exactly what we have done. 
We have lost our spiritual equilibrium and inverted our values.

We confess that:

We have ridiculed the absolute truth of Your Word and called it pluralism;

We have, worshipped other gods and called it multiculturalism;

We have endorsed perversion and called it an alternative lifestyle;

We have exploited the poor and called it the lottery; 

We have neglected the needy and called it self-preservation; 

We have killed our unborn and called it choice; 

We have neglected to discipline our children and called it building self-esteem; 

We have abused power and called it political savvy;

We have coveted our neighbour’s possessions and called it ambition;

We have polluted the air with profanity and pornography and called it freedom of expression;

We have ridiculed the time-honoured values of our forefathers and called it enlightenment.

Search us, 0 God, and know our hearts today; try us and see if there be some wicked way in us; 
cleanse us from every sin and set us free. Guide and bless these men and women who have 
been sent here by the people of Kansas, and who have been ordained by You, to govern this great state.

Grant them Your wisdom to rule and may their decisions direct us to the centre of Your will. I ask it in the name of Your Son, the Living Saviour, Jesus Christ. Amen.”


                      ****************

"<0>+<0>"  wrote in message 
news:fo9bd3587mc48k8qm65bg3dqbf5e9od7ll@4ax.com...


>>Learn to snip you fucking cripple.

> Now, now. That's no way for a gnome to treat a lady!

Clearly I should have said learn to snip you fucking cripple(s).

>>Think of those dinosaurs that went and died

>They didn't die at the hands of garden gnome anglers for fun did they?

Nope toots.

What clumsy point (if any) are you attempting to make?

Cause of death bears relevance to wastefulness? If so expand please...

If needed, get an adult to help (I suggest one who doesn't share your 
defected genes).

Despite what your parents have told you I'm afraid you're not a child 
genius; just a child...and probably a mongoloid at that.

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 19:01:10 +0100, "MunterGatherer"
 wrote:

>
>"<0>+<0>"  wrote in message 
>news:fo9bd3587mc48k8qm65bg3dqbf5e9od7ll@4ax.com...
>
>
>>>Learn to snip you fucking cripple.
>
>> Now, now. That's no way for a gnome to treat a lady!
>
>Clearly I should have said learn to snip you fucking cripple(s).
>
>>>Think of those dinosaurs that went and died
>
>>They didn't die at the hands of garden gnome anglers for fun did they?
>
>Nope toots.
>
>What clumsy point (if any) are you attempting to make?
>
>Cause of death bears relevance to wastefulness? If so expand please...
>
>If needed, get an adult to help (I suggest one who doesn't share your 
>defected genes).
>
>Despite what your parents have told you I'm afraid you're not a child 
>genius; just a child...and probably a mongoloid at that.
>
>

You're a great advert for the pro hunt limp dicks.
--










Hansom <0>++<0>




Avoid the rush at the last judgement. Be converted now instead!


PRAYER FOR A NATION


When Pastor Joe Wright, of Central Christian Church, was asked 
to open the new session of the Kansas Senate, everyone was expecting
 the usual politically correct generalities. 
But what they heard instead was this:

Heavenly Father, we come before You today to ask Your forgiveness 
and seek your direction and guidance. 
We know Your Word says, 
‘Woe on those who call evil good,’ but that’s exactly what we have done. 
We have lost our spiritual equilibrium and inverted our values.

We confess that:

We have ridiculed the absolute truth of Your Word and called it pluralism;

We have, worshipped other gods and called it multiculturalism;

We have endorsed perversion and called it an alternative lifestyle;

We have exploited the poor and called it the lottery; 

We have neglected the needy and called it self-preservation; 

We have killed our unborn and called it choice; 

We have neglected to discipline our children and called it building self-esteem; 

We have abused power and called it political savvy;

We have coveted our neighbour’s possessions and called it ambition;

We have polluted the air with profanity and pornography and called it freedom of expression;

We have ridiculed the time-honoured values of our forefathers and called it enlightenment.

Search us, 0 God, and know our hearts today; try us and see if there be some wicked way in us; 
cleanse us from every sin and set us free. Guide and bless these men and women who have 
been sent here by the people of Kansas, and who have been ordained by You, to govern this great state.

Grant them Your wisdom to rule and may their decisions direct us to the centre of Your will. I ask it in the name of Your Son, the Living Saviour, Jesus Christ. Amen.”


                      ****************

"<0>+<0>"  wrote in message 
news:q7dbd316rqmjab0b8htloisaho29muffne@4ax.com...

> You're a great advert for the pro hunt limp dicks.

For the love of God  learn to snip you fucking twit.

On all these groups we don't give a fuck what Pastor Joe Wright has to 
say....or fucking Kansas

You're an advert for eugenics...or abortion....take yer pick.

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 19:01:10 +0100, "MunterGatherer"
 wrote:

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 18:07:29 +0100, "<0>+<0>"
 wrote:

>On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:41:34 +0100, "MunterGatherer"
> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 13:08:58 +0100, Gloria
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 22:26:41 GMT, "matthew walker"
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>The village idiot Garden Gnome angling stalker known as  "matthew
>>>walker" has taken to sending abusive emails and registering me for
>>>porno websights, some of which are run by the notorious child porn
>>>king and gnome Derek Moody.
>>>
>>>An example of the mindset of an angling gnome. Note the IPs the
>>>village idiot obviously knows nothing about. Someone educate the loser
>>>please. LOL
>>>
>>>ONE: 
>>>
>>>X-Apparently-To: letsstandup2bullies@yahoo.co.uk via 217.146.176.53;
>>>Sun, 26 Aug 2007 18:06:49 +0000 
>>>X-Originating-IP: [81.103.221.48] 
>>>Return-Path:  
>>>Authentication-Results: mta135.mail.ukl.yahoo.com from=ntlworld.com;
>>>domainkeys=neutral (no sig) 
>>>Received: from 81.103.221.48 (EHLO mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com)
>>>(81.103.221.48) by mta135.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; Sun, 26 Aug
>>>2007 18:06:48 +0000 
>>>Received: from aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by
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>>>
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>>><20070826180645.JTZS29112.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@nonei3ghqworyw>
>>>for ; Sun, 26 Aug 2007 19:06:45 +0100
>>>Message-ID: <002601c7e812$37b5b8a0$0101a8c0@nonei3ghqworyw> 
>>>From: "matthew walker"   Add to Address
>>>Book 
>>>To: "Mr Lane"  
>>>References:  
>>>Subject: Re: Cruel angling FAQs http://www.fishinghurts.com/ 
>>>Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 19:52:08 +0100 
>>>MIME-Version: 1.0 
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>>>Content-Length: 11935 
>>>    Dude,
>>>If you are serious about gods creatures, don't drive - you may kill
>>>inscets, don't use any pharmacuticle drugs, they are tested on
>>>animals. Look down when you walk to ensure you dont step on any off
>>>gods creatures!. In fact any form of public transport will kill gods
>>>creatures. There is no hierarchy of life. you are a pathetic
>>>hypocrite, who can only resort to insults. If you clean your teeth,
>>>wash you are killing gods creatures bacteria!. If you want to play
>>>games and give me insults, then fuck off you pathetic person!!
>>> 
>>>Get a fucking life and practice what you preach
>>>Twat!
>>>
>>>TWO:
>>>X-Apparently-To: letsstandup2bullies@yahoo.co.uk via 217.146.176.53;
>>>Sun, 26 Aug 2007 23:25:07 +0000 
>>>X-Originating-IP: [216.34.38.108] 
>>>Return-Path:
>>> 
>>>Authentication-Results: mta136.mail.ukl.yahoo.com
>>>from=adultfriendfinder.com; domainkeys=neutral (no sig) 
>>>Received: from 216.34.38.108 (EHLO e108.friendfinderinc.com)
>>>(216.34.38.108) by mta136.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; Sun, 26 Aug
>>>2007 23:25:07 +0000 
>>>X-Mailer: StrongMail Enterprise 3.1.5(2.00.223) 
>>>X-SMHeaderMap: mid="X-MailingID" 
>>>X-MailingID: 00000::00000::00000::00000::app=email_welcome
>>>site=ffadult domain=yahoo.co.uk
>>>msgid=1188170706.3282.letsstandup2bullies@yahoo.co.uk::297718 
>>>X-Destination-ID:  
>>>X-VirtualServerGroup: password 
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>>>-0000 
>>>Date: 26 Aug 2007 23:25:06 -0000 
>>>Message-ID:  
>>>Content-Disposition: inline 
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>>>Content-Type: text/plain 
>>>MIME-Version: 1.0 
>>>From: "Adult FriendFinder"   Add to
>>>Address Book 
>>>Subject: Login to activate your Adult FriendFinder account! 
>>>To: letsstandup2bullies@yahoo.co.uk 
>>>X-Hostid: 10.41.13.4 
>>>List-Unsubscribe:
>>>list-unsubscribe-ffadult-fannybatter550@adultfriendfinder.com 
>>>X-VirtualServerGroup-Source: app=email_welcome site=ffadult
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>>>msgid=1188170706.3282.letsstandup2bullies@yahoo.co.uk 
>>>X-Campaign-ID: email_welcome_3282 
>>>Content-Length: 1367 
>>>    
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>>>
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>>>He he
>>
>>And they have the cheek to claim fish have no brain! LOL
>
>
>>Learn to snip you fucking cripple.
>
>Now, now. That's no way for a gnome to treat a lady!
>
>>Think of those dinosaurs that went and died
>
>They didn't die at the hands of garden gnome anglers for fun did they?
>
>> to produce the fossil fuels 
>>needed for you to go and blow .
>
>it out your arse gnomey! 
>
>
>
>>>
>>>>Now That you have started cross posting new groups because have nothing
>>>>better to do!
>>>>If you are not vegan, you consume animal products, just because they are
>>>>diguised in ingreadents or are a by product e.g wearing leather - they are
>>>>still animal products from all of the so called cruel methods you have
>>>>stated previously.
>>>>
>>>>If you are serious about gods creatures, don't drive - you may kill inscets,
>>>>don't use any pharmacuticle drugs, they are tested on animals. Look down
>>>>when you walk to ensure you dont step on any off gods creatures!. In fact
>>>>any form of public transport will kill gods creatures. There is no hierarchy
>>>>of life. you are a pathetic hypocrites, who can only resort to insults. If
>>>>you clean your teeth, wash you are killing gods creatures bacteria!
>>>>
>>>>"Gloria"  wrote in message
>>>>news:aac2d3hhhp2a8ff36i6ks08uah7n11fmoc@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Sat, 25 Aug 2007 21:20:34 GMT, "matthew walker"
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >"sleepalot"  wrote in message
>>>>> >news:1182470382.664841.289980@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> >> On Jun 21, 8:56 am, Polly  wrote:
>>>>> >>>Frequently Asked Questions
>>>>> >>>Isn't eating fish good for your health?
>>>>> >>>Fish absorb all the contamination from the water they live in, so fish
>>>>flesh is laced with toxins such as mercury,
>>>>> >>> lead, arsenic, PCBs, pesticides, and even industrial strength
>>>>fire-retardant.
>>>>> >>>Just two servings of fish per week can elevate your blood mercury
>>>>levels by
>>>>> >>>700 percent, and study after study has linked fish consumption to
>>>>fatigue,
>>>>> >>>memory loss, and decreased mental function. Click here for the facts
>>>>about fish flesh and your health.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>So what does the fish industry have to say for itself? It ignores the
>>>>fact that fish
>>>>> >>>flesh is toxic (the breast milk of some Inuit tribes is so concentrated
>>>>with poisons
>>>>> >>>from their fish diet that it meets the Environmental Protection
>>>>Agency's standards
>>>>> >>>for toxic waste) and points to small amounts of omega-3 fatty acids in
>>>>fish.
>>>>> >>> But you can get plenty of omega-3 fatty acids in nuts and leafy
>>>>> >>>green vegetables . without losing your mind.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>What's wrong with catch-and-release fishing?
>>>>> >>>Have you ever seen an injured dog who has been hit by a car or a cat
>>>>who's been
>>>>> >>>seriously hurt in a fight? Unless they are treated by a veterinarian,
>>>>these animals
>>>>> >>>are likely to die from their injuries. Fish are no different:
>>>>> >>>A hook through the mouth causes a serious and extremely painful injury
>>>>> >>>that is often fatal without treatment. But anglers just toss injured
>>>>> >>>fish back into the water-often without realizing what they've done.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>In addition to the wounds that are caused by the hook, fish released
>>>>after
>>>>> >>>being caught can suffer from loss of their protective scale coating,
>>>>> >>>dangerous build-up of lactic acid in their muscles, oxygen depletion,
>>>>> >>>and damage to their delicate fins and mouths.
>>>>> >>>Upon being returned to the water, these fish are easy targets for
>>>>predators
>>>>> >>>and other fishers. Researchers at the Oklahoma Department
>>>>> >>>of Wildlife Conservation found that as many as 43 percent of
>>>>> >>>fish released after being caught died within six days.
>>>>> >>>Catching fish is cruel and unnecessary, whether they
>>>>> >>>are killed on the spot or thrown back into the water, injured and
>>>>exhausted.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>Didn't Jesus eat fish?
>>>>> >>>It's an interesting question, but Biblical scholars agree that the
>>>>appropriate
>>>>> >>>question for Christians is, "What should we be eating?"
>>>>> >>>The Bible clearly says that our bodies are temples and that
>>>>> >>>we should take care of them. Yet it's a fact that all fish flesh today
>>>>> >>> is contaminated with heavy metals and other toxins.
>>>>> >>> In fact, fish flesh is just about the most polluted thing that
>>>>> >>> humans put into their bodies. On that basis alone,
>>>>> >>>Christians should not be eating it.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>Today's fishing practices are also horribly cruel to God's creatures.
>>>>> >>>God cares for all His creatures, and the Bible counsels compassion for
>>>>> >>>all beings. We all understand that it is immoral and contrary to
>>>>> >>>Christian mercy to torture dogs and cats. It is equally unchristian to
>>>>> >>> torture and kill (or pay others to torture and kill) fish and other
>>>>animals.
>>>>> >>>Although they may not be able to scream out in pain, fish have the
>>>>> >>>same capacity for suffering and the same right to compassion as all
>>>>living beings.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>For more frequently asked questions about vegetarianism, click here.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>For more frequently asked questions about other issues, click here.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>Ask Carla, PETA's kindness consultant.
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> >> > Didn't Jesus eat fish?
>>>>> >> > It's an interesting question,...
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Which you didn't even attempt to answer.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Supposedly "Jesus" said "I am a fisher of men", so clearly he was a
>>>>> >> cannibal.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> >what about feeding the 5k with 5 barley loaves an 2 fishes?
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.vegsoc.org.au/religion_jesus.asp
>>>>>
>>>>> What Would Jesus Eat...Today
>>>>>
>>>>> As Christians, we hold that the ethical principles Jesus taught, such
>>>>> as love, compassion, humility, and charity, are eternal. We believe
>>>>> that, if Jesus were among us today and witnessed the wastefulness,
>>>>> environmental destructiveness, human health hazards, and animal
>>>>> mistreatment inherent in modern animal agriculture's methods, he would
>>>>> choose to abstain.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is vegetarianism biblical?
>>>>> The Bible depicts vegetarianism as an ideal, with a peaceful,
>>>>> vegetarian world at the Creation and at the end of time. God found
>>>>> everything in Eden "very good" immediately after giving all animals
>>>>> (and humans) a vegetarian diet (Genesis 1:29-30). Several prophecies,
>>>>> such as Isaiah 11:6-9, foresee a return to this vegetarian world,
>>>>> where the wolf, lamb, lion, cow, bear, snake, and little child all
>>>>> co-exist peacefully. Christian vegetarians believe we should strive
>>>>> towards the peaceful world Isaiah envisions; to try, in our own
>>>>> limited ways, to follow Christ's mission, expressed in the Lord's
>>>>> Prayer: "Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven" (Matthew 6:10,
>>>>> RSV).
>>>>>
>>>>> What are vegetarianism's benefits?
>>>>> World Hunger
>>>>> Jesus preached, "For I was hungry and you gave me food...as you did it
>>>>> to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me" (Matthew
>>>>> 25:35, 40). Yet, while many millions die of hunger annually and many
>>>>> more suffer malnutrition, worldwide one-third of all grain is fed to
>>>>> animals being raised for slaughter; in the U.S., the proportion is
>>>>> nearly three-fourths. Converting grains to meat wastes about 90% of
>>>>> grains' proteins, 96% of their calories, and 100% of their
>>>>> carbohydrates and fiber (Keith Akers, A Vegetarian Sourcebook). It is
>>>>> ironic that vegetarians, who are often accused of caring more about
>>>>> animals than humans, encourage a diet that helps feed humans, not
>>>>> animals.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your Health
>>>>> The Bible describes God's concern for humankind, and it follows that
>>>>> we should choose diets that help preserve human life. A pure
>>>>> vegetarian diet cuts cancer risk by about 40% (Cancer Res.
>>>>> 1975;35(suppl):3513-22), dramatically reduces heart disease risk (Dr.
>>>>> Neal Barnard, Food for Life), and helps people lose weight (Barnard,
>>>>> Turn Off the Fat Genes). Indeed, Paul says, "Do you not know that your
>>>>> body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, which you have from
>>>>> God?" (1 Corinthians 6:19).
>>>>>
>>>>> The Earth
>>>>> God instructed Adam to "till" and "keep" the Garden of Eden (Genesis
>>>>> 2:15), and by analogy we may see our task as to care for the rest of
>>>>> Creation. In the U.S., it takes far more energy, water, and other
>>>>> resources to feed a meat-eater than a vegetarian. By helping preserve
>>>>> scarce resources and minimizing environmental degradation,
>>>>> vegetarianism shows respect for Creation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Animal Welfare
>>>>> Jesus said that God feeds the birds of the air (Matthew 6:26) and does
>>>>> not forget sparrows (Luke 12:6). The Hebrew writings forbid inhumane
>>>>> slaughter or cruelty towards beasts of burden (Exodus 23:5,
>>>>> Deuteronomy 22:6-7, 25:4). In the U.S., nearly all animal foods are
>>>>> derived from intensive, "factory farms." Animals suffer greatly from
>>>>> stressful crowding, barren environments that frustrate their
>>>>> instinctive drives, and manipulations without anesthesia, such as
>>>>> debeaking chicks, cutting off pigs' tails, and castrating and branding
>>>>> cattle (Erik Marcus, Vegan: The New ethics of Eating).
>>>>>
>>>>> Farmers routinely use antibiotics to prevent infections in crowded,
>>>>> stressed animals, and this promotes dangerous antibiotic-resistance
>>>>> among bacteria. You can prevent infections by cooking meat, but this
>>>>> generates cancer-causing heterocyclic amines. Farmers also add
>>>>> hormones, harmful to human health, to stimulate excessive muscle
>>>>> development in animals, causing painful lameness. Slaughter typically
>>>>> involves terror and, often, great pain (Gail Eisnitz, Slaughterhouse).
>>>>>
>>>>> Didn't God put animals here for our use?
>>>>> Adam's "dominion" over animals (Genesis 1:26, 28), we believe, conveys
>>>>> sacred stewardship, since God then prescribed a vegetarian diet
>>>>> (Genesis 1:29-30) in a world God found "very good" (1:31). Genesis
>>>>> 2:18-19 relates, "Then the Lord God said, ?It is not good that man
>>>>> should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him'" and God then
>>>>> created animals. According to this passage, animals were made as
>>>>> Adam's companions and helpers, certainly not his supper.
>>>>>
>>>>> Didn't God give people permission to eat meat?
>>>>> Genesis 9:2-4 describes God giving Noah permission to eat meat, but
>>>>> this may have been because all plants were destroyed by the Flood and
>>>>> does not demonstrate that meat-eating is God's highest ideal.
>>>>> Similarly, there is no prohibition of slavery in the Bible, though it
>>>>> clearly does not agree with the highest biblical ideal. Throughout the
>>>>> Bible, people are encouraged to use their own free will to decide
>>>>> whether or not they will behave according to God's highest ideal.
>>>>>
>>>>> Does God care for animals?
>>>>> Proverbs 12:10 teaches, "A righteous man has regard for the life of
>>>>> his beast," while the Psalmist maintains that "The Lord is good to
>>>>> all, and his compassion is over all he has made" (Psalms 145:9).
>>>>>
>>>>> The Bible describes God's concern for animals repeatedly (Matthew
>>>>> 10:29, 12:11-12, 18:12-14) and forbids cruelty (Deuteronomy 22:10,
>>>>> 25:4). Importantly, five times after the flood God makes a covenant
>>>>> with animals as well as with humans. All creatures share in the
>>>>> Sabbath rest (Exodus 20:10, Deuteronomy 5:14). The Bible describes
>>>>> animals praising God (Psalms 148:7-10, 150:6), shows animals present
>>>>> in eternity (Isaiah 65:25, Revelation 5:13) and affirms that God
>>>>> preserves animals (Psalms 36:6, Ephesians 1:10, Colossians 1:20).
>>>>> Animals and humans look to God for sustenance (Psalms 104:27-31,
>>>>> 147:9, Matthew 6:26, Luke 12:6) and deliverance (Jonah 3:7-9, Romans
>>>>> 8:18-23).
>>>>>
>>>>> Does vegetarianism equate human and animal life?
>>>>> Vegetarianism simply reflects respect for Creation. Jesus says, "Are
>>>>> not five sparrows sold for two pennies? And not one of them is
>>>>> forgotten before God.... Fear not; you are of more value than many
>>>>> sparrows" (Luke 12:6-7). This passage relates that God values humans
>>>>> more than animals, but God remains concerned about all creatures. We
>>>>> can have compassion for animals, and allow them to live full and
>>>>> normal lives, without equating human and animal life.
>>>>>
>>>>> What about animal sacrifices?
>>>>> There are many different opinions on this question's answer, even
>>>>> among Christian vegetarians. Some believe that God accepted sacrifices
>>>>> at an earlier and more primitive time, but that sacrifices are
>>>>> certainly not required or even desired now, since Jesus' death atoned
>>>>> for our sins in a very final way. Others question whether God ever
>>>>> desired sacrifices; several prophets, including Isaiah, Jeremiah,
>>>>> Micah, Amos, and Hosea, objected to sacrifice, often emphasizing that
>>>>> God prefers righteousness. Indeed, Jesus twice quoted Hosea (6:6),
>>>>> saying, "I desire mercy and not sacrifice" (Matthew 9:13, 12:7).
>>>>> Importantly, unlike sacrificed animals, Jesus chose to sacrifice
>>>>> himself to fulfill God's will. Christians, being a new creation in
>>>>> Christ, may model Christ by choosing a loving relationship with all
>>>>> creation, which sometimes requires self-sacrifice.
>>>>>
>>>>> Didn't Jesus eat meat?
>>>>> Luke 24:43 relates that Jesus ate fish. However, many Christian
>>>>> vegetarians believe that Jesus would be a vegetarian today.
>>>>>
>>>>> What about the passage in which Peter is instructed to "kill and eat"
>>>>> all creatures (Acts 10:13, 11:7)?
>>>>> Many Christians, reading on, find that this passage is not a literal
>>>>> instruction to consume flesh. Peter, pondering this vision's meaning,
>>>>> concluded, "God has shown me that I should not call any man common or
>>>>> unclean" (Acts 10:28). However one interprets this passage, it does
>>>>> not require that we consume meat today.
>>>>>
>>>>> Should we accept meat as a gift, given that 1 Timothy 4:4 says,
>>>>> "everything created by God is good"?
>>>>> Paul also condoned meat-eating nearly 2000 years ago in 1 Corinthians
>>>>> 10:25, but modern animal agriculture is a human creation, and it harms
>>>>> humans, animals, and the Earth.
>>>>>
>>>>> Have nonvegetarian Christian saints and leaders been immoral?
>>>>> We should not judge those who may have eaten meat, owned slaves, or
>>>>> done other things that we believe are not God's highest ideals for
>>>>> humankind. We should simply do the best we can to express Christ's
>>>>> love, compassion, and peace. Throughout history, many people, in
>>>>> ignorance, have done hurtful things while concurrently showing great
>>>>> love and compassion in other ways.
>>>>>
>>>>> Have there been many vegetarian Christians?
>>>>> Many Christians have received the Gospel as encouraging vegetarianism.
>>>>> Several early Christian groups, including the Nazarenes, Ebionites,
>>>>> Elchasaites, Ossaeans, Cathars, and the Bogomils, encouraged
>>>>> vegetarianism. Since then, the Trappist, Benedictine, and Carthusian
>>>>> orders have advocated vegetarianism, as have Seventh-day Adventists.
>>>>> In the 19th century, members of the Bible Christian sect established
>>>>> the first vegetarian groups in England and the U.S.
>>>>>
>>>>> Vegetarian Christians have included Basil the Great, John Chrysostom,
>>>>> Tertullian, Origen, Clement of Alexandria, John Wesley (Methodism's
>>>>> founder), Ellen G. White (a Seventh-day Adventists founder), Salvation
>>>>> Army co-founders William and Catherine Booth, Leo Tolstoy, and Albert
>>>>> Schweitzer.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why aren't more Christians vegetarians?
>>>>> The most important reason is lack of awareness. If everyone saw the
>>>>> rough treatment, crowded conditions, and general misery of animals on
>>>>> factory farms, and then looked into the terrified eyes of animals at
>>>>> slaughterhouses, many more would become vegetarians. Some might still
>>>>> eat meat, but even then it would be because they didn't recognize the
>>>>> suffering or they incorrectly believed that meat is "necessary" for
>>>>> good health. Other effects of modern animal agriculture, such as
>>>>> resource depletion and the consequent environmental damage, are not so
>>>>> readily apparent.
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't laws ensure farm animal welfare?
>>>>> In many countries, including the U.S., animals on farms are
>>>>> specifically exempted from all humane legislation. At the
>>>>> slaughterhouse, "humane slaughter" laws are weak and poorly enforced.
>>>>>
>>>>> Instead of advocating vegetarianism, shouldn't we seek reforms?
>>>>> There are many ways to promote compassion, and many vegetarians are
>>>>> seeking reforms. While we carry out whatever public mission we feel is
>>>>> appropriate, we believe that people should be aware of the many
>>>>> negative effects of animal-based diet and agriculture, and we feel
>>>>> compelled to be vegetarians ourselves.
>>>>>
>>>>> Would animals overrun the earth if everyone became vegetarian?
>>>>> No. There are many species we don't eat, and they haven't overrun the
>>>>> earth. Human exploitation of the earth, in part to feed vast
>>>>> quantities of grain to livestock, is the chief reason for the
>>>>> environmental crisis.
>>>>>
>>>>> As the demand for animal-derived foods gradually decreases, fewer
>>>>> animals will be bred. In the unlikely event that many animals needed
>>>>> homes, compassionate people would find compassionate solutions. Such
>>>>> people already care for formerly farmed animals (see
>>>>> http://www.farmsanctuary.org).
>>>>>
>>>>> What would happen to butchers, cattle ranchers, and others who depend
>>>>> on animal agriculture for a livelihood?
>>>>> The abolition of slavery was difficult for former slaveholders; in a
>>>>> similar way, those dependent on animal agriculture may experience
>>>>> hardship when the world finally realizes that vegetarianism is
>>>>> necessary and desirable. Fortunately, job displacement will be
>>>>> minimal, because farm employment is already low and new markets for
>>>>> nonanimal foods will grow as demand for meat falls. If necessary,
>>>>> retraining or even outright support for those inconvenienced by this
>>>>> transition might be appropriate.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why should we be so concerned about animals when there are so many
>>>>> critical problems related to people today?
>>>>> Virtually all contemporary social problems are interconnected. Indeed,
>>>>> vegetarianism expresses compassion towards humans as well as animals,
>>>>> since it results in healthier people, helps feed the hungry, and
>>>>> promotes a cleaner, more sustainable environment.
>>>>>
>>>>> Since animals eat each other, what's wrong with humans eating animals?
>>>>> What animals do should not dictate human morality. Other animals may
>>>>> have to eat each other to live, but humans have a choice. We believe
>>>>> that vegetarianism expresses the love, compassion, and peace of
>>>>> Christ.
>>>>>
>>>>> Are humans naturally predators and therefore carnivores?
>>>>> While humans can digest flesh, and it is likely that our ancestors did
>>>>> consume small amounts of meat, our anatomy much more strongly
>>>>> resembles that of plant-eating creatures. For example: like herbivores
>>>>> (but unlike carnivores), our colons are long and complex (not simple
>>>>> and short); our intestines are 10-11 times longer than our bodies (not
>>>>> 3-6 times longer); our saliva contains digestive enzymes (unlike
>>>>> carnivores); our dental incisors are broad, flattened, and
>>>>> spade-shaped (not short and pointed); our canine teeth are short and
>>>>> blunted (not long, sharp, and curved); our molars are flattened with
>>>>> nodular cusps (not sharp blades like many carnivores); and our nails
>>>>> are flattened (not sharp claws).
>>>>>
>>>>> The millions of healthy vegetarians (who tend to outlive
>>>>> nonvegetarians) demonstrate that it is not necessary to eat meat.
>>>>>
>>>>> How would a Christian vegetarian celebrate holidays such as Easter,
>>>>> Thanksgiving, and Christmas?
>>>>> Vegetarians celebrate these holidays fully and joyously without
>>>>> consuming animals. Numerous cookbooks offer tasty vegetarian meals,
>>>>> from quick and easy to complex and elegant.
>>>>>
>>>>> Should a Christian also abstain from eggs, milk, leather, wool, and
>>>>> other animal products?
>>>>> A place to start is to become vegetarian. Then, we believe, Christians
>>>>> should try to reduce their consumption of animal products as much as
>>>>> possible. Vegetarians make a compassionate choice that expresses a
>>>>> faith in God's creative goodness. Many vegetarians, aware of the
>>>>> cruelties associated with other animal products, eventually choose not
>>>>> to consume them.
>>>>>
>>>>> How can I witness to the peace of Christ through diet?
>>>>> We should always remember that Christians strive to follow Christ's
>>>>> example of pure love and compassion, and most Christians would prefer
>>>>> that their diets not hurt animals, squander scarce resources, and harm
>>>>> their bodies. We need to show fellow Christians, in a loving and
>>>>> compassionate way, that nonanimal foods are tasty, convenient, and
>>>>> nutritious. The Christian Vegetarian Association's web site offers
>>>>> many ideas on how to promote vegetarianism within your congregation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Christian Vegetarian Association
>>>>> witnessing to the love, compassion, and peace of Christ by adopting
>>>>> and advocating a vegetarian diet
>>>>>
>>>>> Bibliography
>>>>>
>>>>> Keith Akers. The Lost Religion of Jesus.
>>>>> J.R. Hyland. God's Covenant with Animals.
>>>>> Andrew Linzey. Animal Gospel.
>>>>> George H. Malkmus. Why Christians Get Sick.
>>>>> Vesanto Melina et al. Becoming Vegetarian.
>>>>> Stephen H. Webb. Christian Vegetarianism; also, On God and Dogs.
>>>>> Richard Alan Young. Is God a Vegetarian?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Web Sites
>>>>> *All Creatures
>>>>> http://www.all-creatures.org
>>>>> *Humane Religion
>>>>> http://www.humanereligion.org
>>>>> *Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine
>>>>> http://www.pcrm.org
>>>>> *Vegan Outreach (phone 412-968-0268)
>>>>> http://www.veganoutreach.org
>>>>> *Christian Vegetarian Association
>>>>> http://www.christianveg.com
>>>>> *Compassionate Spirit
>>>>> http://www.compassionatespirit.com
>>>>> By Peter Milne(Click for profile)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>


>Nope toots.
>
>What clumsy point (if any) are you attempting to make?

Probably that you're an idiot.

>Cause of death bears relevance to wastefulness? If so expand please...
>
>If needed, get an adult to help (I suggest one who doesn't share your 
>defected genes).
>
>Despite what your parents have told you I'm afraid you're not a child 
>genius; just a child...and probably a mongoloid at that.

You are what you eat, and you have obviously eaten plenty of dick!

Please don't snip the posts otherwise we cant see the context. 

HTH

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