In our local paper this week we are shewn pictures of the TF LE 500

They report that it is completely hand assembled  "good or bad you may 
thimk"

Is it possible that this will be a return of the Rover which was a good car

The mustard colour looks quite good

                              ..............................Leslie 


--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
	     ------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

Therefore wrote:
> In our local paper this week we are shewn pictures of the TF LE 500
> 
> They report that it is completely hand assembled  "good or bad you may 
> thimk"
> 
> Is it possible that this will be a return of the Rover which was a good car
> 
> The mustard colour looks quite good

The Japs have already proved they can do the sports car thing much better.

MG - R.I.P. You've had your day.

On Sep 29, 9:33 am, Silk  wrote:
> Therefore wrote:
> > In our local paper this week we are shewn pictures of the TF LE 500
>
> > They report that it is completely hand assembled  "good or bad you may
> > thimk"
>
> > Is it possible that this will be a return of the Rover which was a good car
>
> > The mustard colour looks quite good
>
> The Japs have already proved they can do the sports car thing much better> MG - R.I.P. You've had your day.

Japs cant make a sports car, they only rip off other folks ideas.

Nkosi@Work

Nkosi wrote:
> On Sep 29, 9:33 am, Silk  wrote:
>> Therefore wrote:
>>> In our local paper this week we are shewn pictures of the TF LE 500
>>> They report that it is completely hand assembled  "good or bad you may
>>> thimk"
>>> Is it possible that this will be a return of the Rover which was a good car
>>> The mustard colour looks quite good
>> The Japs have already proved they can do the sports car thing much better.
>>
>> MG - R.I.P. You've had your day.
> 
> Japs cant make a sports car, they only rip off other folks ideas.

The Mazda MX5 is a good example of what happens when you take the MG 
Midget idea and do it properly. I'm only concerned about whether or not 
something is good. I'll leave who ripped off whom to the lawyers.

Silk  wrote:

> The Mazda MX5 is a good example of what happens when you take the MG 
> Midget idea and do it properly.

Except it isn't. It's an example of what happens when you take the Lotus
Elan idea (and ideals) and do it for a mass market.

"Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:1io18jr.1k4a89p7omuqaN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
> Silk  wrote:
>
>> The Mazda MX5 is a good example of what happens when you take the MG
>> Midget idea and do it properly.
>
> Except it isn't. It's an example of what happens when you take the Lotus
> Elan idea (and ideals) and do it for a mass market.

The  "new" MG is £5k less than a MX5 and LOADS of extras, once the initial 
run is sold then the std model will be around£8k less- In this credit crunch 
world where even Clarkson lost loads of money (AIG) £8k is a heck of a lot

"Silk"  wrote in message 
news:gbqjjr$naa$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> Nkosi wrote:
>> On Sep 29, 9:33 am, Silk  wrote:
>>> Therefore wrote:
>>>> In our local paper this week we are shewn pictures of the TF LE 500
>>>> They report that it is completely hand assembled  "good or bad you may
>>>> thimk"
>>>> Is it possible that this will be a return of the Rover which was a good 
>>>> car
>>>> The mustard colour looks quite good
>>> The Japs have already proved they can do the sports car thing much 
>>> better.
>>>
>>> MG - R.I.P. You've had your day.
>>
>> Japs cant make a sports car, they only rip off other folks ideas.
>
> The Mazda MX5 is a good example of what happens when you take the MG 
> Midget idea and do it properly.

They look like toy cars to me - what exactly is good about them?

-- 
MrBitsy
Rover 75 CDTi

"Nkosi"  wrote in message 
news:4a5bfb66-9801-4ed4-a088-bc3841b8c187@d70g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 29, 9:33 am, Silk  wrote:
> Therefore wrote:
> > In our local paper this week we are shewn pictures of the TF LE 500
>
> > They report that it is completely hand assembled "good or bad you may
> > thimk"
>
> > Is it possible that this will be a return of the Rover which was a good 
> > car
>
> > The mustard colour looks quite good
>
> The Japs have already proved they can do the sports car thing much better.
>
> MG - R.I.P. You've had your day.

The MG7 will be available in the UK in a year - superb car.



-- 
MrBitsy
Rover 75 CDTi

In article <gbqjjr$naa$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
   Silk  wrote:
>  Japs cant make a sports car, they only rip off other folks ideas.

> The Mazda MX5 is a good example of what happens when you take the MG 
> Midget idea and do it properly. 

Thought it was meant to be a sorted Elan? (first type)

> I'm only concerned about whether or not 
> something is good. I'll leave who ripped off whom to the lawyers.

-- 
*Tell me to 'stuff it' - I'm a taxidermist.

    Dave Plowman     dave@davesound.co.uk     London SW 12

MrBitsy wrote:

> They look like toy cars to me - what exactly is good about them?
> 
Handling, for a start.

In article <hS5Ek.43151$kM7.2887@newsfe03.ams2>, ray.keattch@nowhere.com 
says...
> "Silk"  wrote in message 
> news:gbqjjr$naa$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> > Nkosi wrote:
> >> On Sep 29, 9:33 am, Silk  wrote:
> >>> Therefore wrote:
> >>>> In our local paper this week we are shewn pictures of the TF LE 500
> >>>> They report that it is completely hand assembled  "good or bad you may
> >>>> thimk"
> >>>> Is it possible that this will be a return of the Rover which was a good 
> >>>> car
> >>>> The mustard colour looks quite good
> >>> The Japs have already proved they can do the sports car thing much 
> >>> better.
> >>>
> >>> MG - R.I.P. You've had your day.
> >>
> >> Japs cant make a sports car, they only rip off other folks ideas.
> >
> > The Mazda MX5 is a good example of what happens when you take the MG 
> > Midget idea and do it properly.
> 
> They look like toy cars to me - what exactly is good about them?
> 
> 

Scottish Highlands + sunny day + hood down... :)

However...

Scottish Lowlands + pissing rain + hood up... :(

-- 
Halmyre

That's you that is.

"Silk"  wrote in message 
news:gbq3sa$bbe$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> Therefore wrote:
>> In our local paper this week we are shewn pictures of the TF LE 500
>>
>> They report that it is completely hand assembled  "good or bad you may 
>> thimk"
>>

So after a long time they've decided what to do with all the bits and pieces 
and half finished cars laying around the place since it was closed.
Cobble them together, and I guess if they've sold off the big machines and 
robots then it'll have to be by hand!
The workforce might even revive some of that BL surliness as they 
disheartenedly throw the bits together. Will there be a dealer discount for 
cars assembled on a Friday?

"Chris Bartram"  wrote in message 
news:1222700897.5728.0@proxy00.news.clara.net...
> MrBitsy wrote:
>
>> They look like toy cars to me - what exactly is good about them?
>>
> Handling, for a start.

I take it you are referring to the MGF/TF...........


Nkosi@Home

Dave Plowman wrote:
> In article <gbqjjr$naa$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
>    Silk  wrote:
>>  Japs cant make a sports car, they only rip off other folks ideas.
> 
>> The Mazda MX5 is a good example of what happens when you take the MG 
>> Midget idea and do it properly. 
> 
> Thought it was meant to be a sorted Elan? (first type)

The Elan wasn't mass market.

In article <gbsmg6$6nc$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
   Silk  wrote:
> Dave Plowman wrote:
> > In article <gbqjjr$naa$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
> >    Silk  wrote:
> >>  Japs cant make a sports car, they only rip off other folks ideas.
> > 
> >> The Mazda MX5 is a good example of what happens when you take the MG 
> >> Midget idea and do it properly. 
> > 
> > Thought it was meant to be a sorted Elan? (first type)

> The Elan wasn't mass market.

Only because of cost. It was never designed for mass production. The
Midget was mass market because it was cheap - basically an Austin A35 with
a different body.  

So engineer the Elan concept for mass production is what Mazda did.

-- 
*Bigamy is having one wife too many - monogamy is the same

    Dave Plowman     dave@davesound.co.uk     London SW 12

Dave Plowman  wrote:

> So engineer the Elan concept for mass production is what Mazda did.


Indeed, as I noted earlier. However "Silk" isn't going to admit that
he's talking crap.

MrBitsy wrote:
> "Silk"  wrote in message 
> news:gbqjjr$naa$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>> Nkosi wrote:
>>> On Sep 29, 9:33 am, Silk  wrote:
>>>> Therefore wrote:
>>>>> In our local paper this week we are shewn pictures of the TF LE 500
>>>>> They report that it is completely hand assembled  "good or bad you may
>>>>> thimk"
>>>>> Is it possible that this will be a return of the Rover which was a 
>>>>> good car
>>>>> The mustard colour looks quite good
>>>> The Japs have already proved they can do the sports car thing much 
>>>> better.
>>>>
>>>> MG - R.I.P. You've had your day.
>>>
>>> Japs cant make a sports car, they only rip off other folks ideas.
>>
>> The Mazda MX5 is a good example of what happens when you take the MG 
>> Midget idea and do it properly.
> 
> They look like toy cars to me - what exactly is good about them?
> 
The MX5 is one of the best handling cars money can buy. Not the fastest, 
or the grippiest, but brilliant fun to drive.

The TF isn't.

-- 
Pete M - OMF#9

BMW 325i SE Touring
Range Rover V8 Turbo
Renault 30 TX Auto

"Wait! We can't stop here, this is Bat Country"

Steve Firth wrote:
> Dave Plowman  wrote:
> 
>> So engineer the Elan concept for mass production is what Mazda did.
> 
> 
> Indeed, as I noted earlier. However "Silk" isn't going to admit that
> he's talking crap.


It goes like this: 60s and 70s MG Midget was sports car for masses; 80s 
to mid 90s it was the XR3, Golf GTi etc.; mid 90s on it's the MX5. In 
fact, every MX5 driver I've ever met has been over 60 - probably because 
they owned an MG when they were young and the Mazda fits the bill in 2008.

Pete M wrote:

> The MX5 is one of the best handling cars money can buy. Not the fastest, 
> or the grippiest, but brilliant fun to drive.
> 
> The TF isn't.
> 

The other problem is MG is no longer a prestige brand. There aren't that 
many people old enough to remember when it was. As soon as it was 
tainted by its association with BL it ceased to mean anything other than 
blatant badge engineering.

A Skoda badge has more prestige than an MG one.

Silk  wrote:

> 
> The other problem is MG is no longer a prestige brand.

It never was.

> There aren't that many people old enough to remember when it was.

There's aren't that many people capable of that level of self-deceit.
MGs were always bags of nails screwed together from the Morris Garages'
bits and pieces. It never was a prestige brand other than in the eyes of
a few Arran jumper wearing, pipe smoking losers who didn't know how to
drive.

Steve Firth wrote:
> Silk  wrote:
> 
>> The other problem is MG is no longer a prestige brand.
> 
> It never was.
> 
>> There aren't that many people old enough to remember when it was.
> 
> There's aren't that many people capable of that level of self-deceit.
> MGs were always bags of nails screwed together from the Morris Garages'
> bits and pieces. It never was a prestige brand other than in the eyes of
> a few Arran jumper wearing, pipe smoking losers who didn't know how to
> drive.

Exactly. These are the same people who now drive MX5s in their dotage. 
At least the roof doesn't leak and it'll go between services without 
breaking down.

In article <gbsv7j$c3r$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
   Silk  wrote:
> Steve Firth wrote:
> > Dave Plowman  wrote:
> > 
> >> So engineer the Elan concept for mass production is what Mazda did.
> > 
> > 
> > Indeed, as I noted earlier. However "Silk" isn't going to admit that
> > he's talking crap.


> It goes like this: 60s and 70s MG Midget was sports car for masses; 

And the Spitfire was...?

> 80s to mid 90s it was the XR3, Golf GTi etc.;

Those aren't what is known as a 'sports car'. They are simply faster
versions of small family cars complete with four seats and roof. MG also
did that trick as well as 'sports cars'.

> mid 90s on it's the MX5.

So no more hot hatches then?

> In fact, every MX5 driver I've ever met has been over 60 - probably
> because they owned an MG when they were young and the Mazda fits the
> bill in 2008.

You obviously don't get out much.

-- 
*Starfishes have no brains *

    Dave Plowman     dave@davesound.co.uk     London SW 12

In article <1io303u.7qfq951nx9o9pN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>,
   Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:
> Silk  wrote:

> > 
> > The other problem is MG is no longer a prestige brand.

> It never was.

> > There aren't that many people old enough to remember when it was.

> There's aren't that many people capable of that level of self-deceit.
> MGs were always bags of nails screwed together from the Morris Garages'
> bits and pieces. It never was a prestige brand other than in the eyes of
> a few Arran jumper wearing, pipe smoking losers who didn't know how to
> drive.

 That might be the case in your short lifetime - but certainly wasn't
always so. You're obviously not aware that MG held several world speed
records for many a year - and in their heyday made some fine cars which
were the equal of any other in that class. Even though at the start they
were simply slightly modified Morris.  

 Even post WW2, models like the TC, TD, TF and MGA were well regarded - as
were the Y Type and Magnette saloons.

-- 
*The fact that no one understands you doesn't mean you're an artist 

    Dave Plowman     dave@davesound.co.uk     London SW 12

Dave Plowman  wrote:

> In article <1io303u.7qfq951nx9o9pN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>,
>    Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:
> > Silk  wrote:
> 
> > > 
> > > The other problem is MG is no longer a prestige brand.
> 
> > It never was.
> 
> > > There aren't that many people old enough to remember when it was.
> 
> > There's aren't that many people capable of that level of self-deceit.
> > MGs were always bags of nails screwed together from the Morris Garages'
> > bits and pieces. It never was a prestige brand other than in the eyes of
> > a few Arran jumper wearing, pipe smoking losers who didn't know how to
> > drive.
> 
>  That might be the case in your short lifetime - but certainly wasn't
> always so. You're obviously not aware that MG held several world speed
> records for many a year 

I'm aware that they held class records and I've seen the cars. The MG TF
holds a world speed record, it's still shite.

>- and in their heyday mad some fine cars which were the equal of any
>other in that class. Even though at the start they were simply slightly
>modified Morris.

No, that's "the equal of any British car in their class" although
"class" means pretty much a class of one make assembled from leftover
Morris bits. Even the name MG is a giveaway.
 
>  Even post WW2, models like the TC, TD, TF and MGA were well regarded - as
> were the Y Type and Magnette saloons.

Bwhahahahaahaha (see comment about Arran and pipes).

Dave Plowman wrote:

>  Even post WW2, models like the TC, TD, TF and MGA were well regarded - as
> were the Y Type and Magnette saloons.

Stop being an old git. no one else care about these old heaps. I haven't 
heard of any of them. I consider that a good thing.

Nkosi wrote:
> "Chris Bartram"  wrote in message 
> news:1222700897.5728.0@proxy00.news.clara.net...
>> MrBitsy wrote:
>>
>>> They look like toy cars to me - what exactly is good about them?
>>>
>> Handling, for a start.
> 
> I take it you are referring to the MGF/TF...........
> 
> 
> Nkosi@Home 
> 
> 
More the MX-5, though I have heard the MGF isn't too bad in that respect.

Steve Firth wrote:

>  The MG TF holds a world speed record, it's still shite.
> 
"fastest head gasket failure" ?

Chris Bartram  wrote:

> Steve Firth wrote:
> 
> >  The MG TF holds a world speed record, it's still shite.
> > 
> "fastest head gasket failure" ?

World blind driver speed record IIRC.

In article <1io35nv.1c28mbdt7nj28N%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>,
   Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:
> >  That might be the case in your short lifetime - but certainly wasn't
> > always so. You're obviously not aware that MG held several world speed
> > records for many a year 

> I'm aware that they held class records and I've seen the cars. The MG TF
> holds a world speed record, it's still shite.

You mean the 'current' TF? Wasn't aware it held any meaningful records. 
Those up until EX181 certainly did.

> >- and in their heyday mad some fine cars which were the equal of any
> >other in that class. Even though at the start they were simply slightly
> >modified Morris.

> No, that's "the equal of any British car in their class" although
> "class" means pretty much a class of one make assembled from leftover
> Morris bits. Even the name MG is a giveaway.

Care to name a major sports car maker of that period which didn't share
its engine with others? 

There's virtually no car made today that doesn't share bits with other
makes. The 'fabulous' SS Jaguar had a very basic Standard OHV engine -
long before Jaguar decided to make their own. Current Jags of course share
engines with others.  
>  
> >  Even post WW2, models like the TC, TD, TF and MGA were well regarded
> > - as were the Y Type and Magnette saloons.

> Bwhahahahaahaha (see comment about Arran and pipes).

As I said you weren't there.

-- 
*Half the people in the world are below average.  

    Dave Plowman     dave@davesound.co.uk     London SW 12

"Silk"  wrote in message 
news:gbsv7j$c3r$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> Steve Firth wrote:
>> Dave Plowman  wrote:
>>
>>> So engineer the Elan concept for mass production is what Mazda did.
>>
>>
>> Indeed, as I noted earlier. However "Silk" isn't going to admit that
>> he's talking crap.
>
>
> It goes like this: 60s and 70s MG Midget was sports car for masses; 80s to 
> mid 90s it was the XR3, Golf GTi etc.; mid 90s on it's the MX5. In fact, 
> every MX5 driver I've ever met has been over 60 - probably because they 
> owned an MG when they were young and the Mazda fits the bill in 2008.


While I have always liked the MX-5, mainly because of it's originally Lotus 
Elan looks, when I first looked at buying a "sports" car the mid engined MGF 
handled better and was more responsive on the test drives. Both are machines 
and both need serviced and maintained as they were intended to be Sunday 
morning breakfast or lunch runners, (wife did not fancy a Harley Sportster), 
the occaisnal tinkering is not beyond my engineering expertise. As for 
reliability, the MGF is no worse than some of the more upmarket cars I have 
owned.

Nkosi@Home

"Tommy"  wrote in message 
news:6kc4dbF59944U1@mid.individual.net...
>
> "Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message 
> news:1io18jr.1k4a89p7omuqaN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
>> Silk  wrote:
>>
>>> The Mazda MX5 is a good example of what happens when you take the MG
>>> Midget idea and do it properly.
>>
>> Except it isn't. It's an example of what happens when you take the Lotus
>> Elan idea (and ideals) and do it for a mass market.
>
> The  "new" MG is £5k less than a MX5 and LOADS of extras, once the initial 
> run is sold then the std model will be around£8k less- In this credit 
> crunch world where even Clarkson lost loads of money (AIG) £8k is a heck 
> of a lot
>

And the MX5 is a modern design that is almost universally accepted as one of 
the best cars of it's type to drive.
The MG is a tarted up old design that was never that special anyway.
I'd bet on a 2 year old MX5 being the better buy

-- 
Alex

"I laugh in the face of danger , then I hide until it goes away"

www.drzoidberg.co.uk

"Dave Plowman"  wrote in message 
news:4fe6ef2281dave@davenoise.co.uk...
> In article <gbsv7j$c3r$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
>   Silk  wrote:
>> Steve Firth wrote:
>> > Dave Plowman  wrote:
>> >
>> >> So engineer the Elan concept for mass production is what Mazda did.
>> >
>> >
>> > Indeed, as I noted earlier. However "Silk" isn't going to admit that
>> > he's talking crap.
>
>
>> It goes like this: 60s and 70s MG Midget was sports car for masses;
>
> And the Spitfire was...?
>

Rusty

-- 
Alex

"I laugh in the face of danger , then I hide until it goes away"

www.drzoidberg.co.uk

In article ,
   Dave Plowman  wrote:
> > I'm aware that they held class records and I've seen the cars. The MG
> > TF holds a world speed record, it's still shite.

> You mean the 'current' TF? Wasn't aware it held any meaningful records. 
> Those up until EX181 certainly did.

Should be until and including EX181.

-- 
*He who laughs last, thinks slowest.

    Dave Plowman     dave@davesound.co.uk     London SW 12

In article <1io35nv.1c28mbdt7nj28N%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>,
   Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:
> >  Even post WW2, models like the TC, TD, TF and MGA were well regarded
> > - as were the Y Type and Magnette saloons.

> Bwhahahahaahaha (see comment about Arran and pipes).

Ok then, smartarse. In the mid '50s which affordable sports car or sports
saloon would you have bought?

-- 
*If you can't see my mirrors, I'm doing my hair*

    Dave Plowman     dave@davesound.co.uk     London SW 12

In article <gbtgqo$fvk$2@registered.motzarella.org>,
   Silk  wrote:
> Dave Plowman wrote:

> >  Even post WW2, models like the TC, TD, TF and MGA were well regarded
> > - as were the Y Type and Magnette saloons.

> Stop being an old git. no one else care about these old heaps.

So you have no interest in cars? 

> I haven't heard of any of them. I consider that a good thing.

Yup - you certainly flout your ignorance.

-- 
*Cleaned by Stevie Wonder, checked by David Blunkett*

    Dave Plowman     dave@davesound.co.uk     London SW 12

Dave Plowman wrote:
> In article <gbtgqo$fvk$2@registered.motzarella.org>,
>    Silk  wrote:
>> Dave Plowman wrote:
> 
>>>  Even post WW2, models like the TC, TD, TF and MGA were well regarded
>>> - as were the Y Type and Magnette saloons.
> 
>> Stop being an old git. no one else care about these old heaps.
> 
> So you have no interest in cars? 

Cars have improved since your day. I have no interest in the old crap of 
the past. I want to be able to start on the key *every* morning, be 
assured that I can complete every journey I start, it won't cost me an 
absolute fortune to run and won't rust away before it's due its first MOT.
> 
>> I haven't heard of any of them. I consider that a good thing.
> 
> Yup - you certainly flout your ignorance.
> 

Do they still make any of these old wrecks? I rest my case.

Dr Zoidberg wrote:
> "Tommy"  wrote in message 
> news:6kc4dbF59944U1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> "Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message 
>> news:1io18jr.1k4a89p7omuqaN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
>>> Silk  wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Mazda MX5 is a good example of what happens when you take the MG
>>>> Midget idea and do it properly.
>>>
>>> Except it isn't. It's an example of what happens when you take the Lotus
>>> Elan idea (and ideals) and do it for a mass market.
>>
>> The  "new" MG is £5k less than a MX5 and LOADS of extras, once the 
>> initial run is sold then the std model will be around£8k less- In this 
>> credit crunch world where even Clarkson lost loads of money (AIG) £8k 
>> is a heck of a lot
>>
> 
> And the MX5 is a modern design that is almost universally accepted as 
> one of the best cars of it's type to drive.

I don't like sports cars of any description, but I respect the fact that 
the MX5 in astonishingly well put together.

Silk wrote:
> Dave Plowman wrote:
>> In article <gbtgqo$fvk$2@registered.motzarella.org>,
>>    Silk  wrote:
>>> Dave Plowman wrote:
>>
>>>>  Even post WW2, models like the TC, TD, TF and MGA were well
>>>> regarded - as were the Y Type and Magnette saloons.
>>
>>> Stop being an old git. no one else care about these old heaps.
>>
>> So you have no interest in cars?
>
> Cars have improved since your day. I have no interest in the old crap
> of the past. I want to be able to start on the key *every* morning, be
> assured that I can complete every journey I start, it won't cost me an
> absolute fortune to run and won't rust away before it's due its first
> MOT.
>>
>>> I haven't heard of any of them. I consider that a good thing.
>>
>> Yup - you certainly flout your ignorance.
>>
>
> Do they still make any of these old wrecks? I rest my case.

Has any car manufacturer ever set out to make an old wreck?

Nope, thought not.

In article <gbvig8$7ih$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
   Silk  wrote:
> Dave Plowman wrote:
> > In article <gbtgqo$fvk$2@registered.motzarella.org>,
> >    Silk  wrote:
> >> Dave Plowman wrote:
> > 
> >>>  Even post WW2, models like the TC, TD, TF and MGA were well regarded
> >>> - as were the Y Type and Magnette saloons.
> > 
> >> Stop being an old git. no one else care about these old heaps.
> > 
> > So you have no interest in cars? 

> Cars have improved since your day. 

Since I'm obviously still alive today is my day too. But that doesn't mean
I have to forget the past.

Indeed cars have improved in many ways - but not necessarily the pleasure
they give to drive.  

> I have no interest in the old crap of the past. I want to be able to
> start on the key *every* morning, be assured that I can complete every
> journey I start, it won't cost me an absolute fortune to run and won't
> rust away before it's due its first MOT.

Then you'll have to choose carefully given the way modern cars depreciate.
And have to be thrown away with often quite minor faults.
As to economy - my father who sold trucks had a new Morris Minor in the
early '50s. It *averaged* over 50MPG in the three years he owned it. With
all the marvellous improvements we've seen 150 mpg should be the norm. But
it's not. Very few cars indeed could manage a 50 mpg average over a few
years today.     
> > 
> >> I haven't heard of any of them. I consider that a good thing.
> > 
> > Yup - you certainly flout your ignorance.
> > 

> Do they still make any of these old wrecks? I rest my case.

Nobody composes the likes of Tchaikovsky's Swan Lake either these days.
But I'd guess you consider that old crap too.

-- 
*A backward poet writes inverse.*

    Dave Plowman     dave@davesound.co.uk     London SW 12

Brimstone wrote:

> Has any car manufacturer ever set out to make an old wreck?

Of course not. Manufacturers do the best they can with the technology 
available. As things move on, so the quality and reliability of the 
product improves. Amongst many other things, it means that my lowly 
Skoda diesel will comforatbly out perform the vast majority of so-called 
"sports" cars of the 1960s.

Silk wrote:
> Brimstone wrote:
>
>> Has any car manufacturer ever set out to make an old wreck?
>
> Of course not. Manufacturers do the best they can with the technology
> available. As things move on, so the quality and reliability of the
> product improves. Amongst many other things, it means that my lowly
> Skoda diesel will comforatbly out perform the vast majority of
> so-called "sports" cars of the 1960s.

Indeed, just as any machine will (hopefully) out perform any similar machine 
from forty years before.

In article <gbvtr8$m5g$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
   Silk  wrote:
> Brimstone wrote:

> > Has any car manufacturer ever set out to make an old wreck?

> Of course not. Manufacturers do the best they can with the technology 
> available. As things move on, so the quality and reliability of the 
> product improves. Amongst many other things, it means that my lowly 
> Skoda diesel will comforatbly out perform the vast majority of so-called 
> "sports" cars of the 1960s.

And in 50 years time people will say the same about it as you're saying
about '60s cars. Except that it will more likely be totally forgotten.

And I was discussing '50s and earlier MGs - not '60s. By that time Stokes
had ruined any chances of the UK industry surviving.

-- 
*All generalizations are false.

    Dave Plowman     dave@davesound.co.uk     London SW 12

Dave Plowman  wrote:

> In article <1io35nv.1c28mbdt7nj28N%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>,
>    Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:
> > >  Even post WW2, models like the TC, TD, TF and MGA were well regarded
> > > - as were the Y Type and Magnette saloons.
> 
> > Bwhahahahaahaha (see comment about Arran and pipes).
> 
> Ok then, smartarse. In the mid '50s which affordable sports car or sports
> saloon would you have bought?

Austin-Healey 100, XK120.

Anything other than the 1200cc bag of nails styled by a blind wardrobe
maker that was the TD.

%steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying:

>> Ok then, smartarse. In the mid '50s which affordable sports car or
>> sports saloon would you have bought?

> Austin-Healey 100

New price in 1953, £1100

> XK120.

New price in 1949, £1300

> Anything other than the 1200cc bag of nails styled by a blind wardrobe
> maker that was the TD.

New price in 1953... £720... Half the XK.

To put that into context, a new Ford Consul in 1953 was £730, and a new 
100E Anglia was £500

Adrian  wrote:

> %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) gurgled happily, sounding much like
> they were saying:
> 
> >> Ok then, smartarse. In the mid '50s which affordable sports car or
> >> sports saloon would you have bought?
> 
> > Austin-Healey 100
> 
> New price in 1953, £1100
> 
> > XK120.
> 
> New price in 1949, £1300

In 1954 it cost £1263 including tax, and at launch it cost less than
£1000 so I think your figure is not quite accurate. And it cost less
than a quarter the price of the equivalent Ferrari.

It could top 110 mph and achieve 0-60 in under 10s.

> > Anything other than the 1200cc bag of nails styled by a blind wardrobe
> > maker that was the TD.
> 
> New price in 1953... £720... Half the XK.

No it wasn't half the cost it was 2/3 the cost and it was still sold for
three times what it was worth for a 0-60 in 19s less than 70mph top
speed car that handled like a kid's soapbox.

Your point being?

%steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying:

>> > XK120.

>> New price in 1949, £1300

> In 1954 it cost £1263 including tax, and at launch it cost less than
> £1000 so I think your figure is not quite accurate.

<shrug>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_XK120

"An OTS roadster with all weather gear in place tested by The Motor 
magazine in 1949 ... cost £1263 including taxes."

> Your point being?

That you're not exactly comparing apples with apples.

Might as well say compare one of those foldy-tin-top Micras to an Elise.

Adrian  wrote:

> > Your point being?
> 
> That you're not exactly comparing apples with apples.

The TD was a relic when new. It can only reasonably be compared to the
Anglia which was about as fast and probably the better car.

Neither was a sports car.

In article <1io4z7e.1h5mjrs1rkwplgN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>,
   Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:
> > Ok then, smartarse. In the mid '50s which affordable sports car or
> > sports saloon would you have bought?

> Austin-Healey 100, XK120.

Neither of which was in the same class, price wise. And I take it you have
never driven a Healey 100 - they were absolute dogs to drive. The 120
better - but it's bad points probably fade from the memory just about as
quick as the brakes.  

> Anything other than the 1200cc bag of nails styled by a blind wardrobe
> maker that was the TD.

That would be the one with the 1250 engine? Again you've obviously never
driven one. Great fun to drive.

-- 
*Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    Dave Plowman     dave@davesound.co.uk     London SW 12

In article <1io53iq.1z1234r1wx7tnfN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>,
   Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:
> The TD was a relic when new. It can only reasonably be compared to the
> Anglia which was about as fast and probably the better car.

The Anglia current with the TD was probably the crudest car available new
in the UK and was terrible in just about every way. Thanks for confirming
your knowledge of older cars is equally as lacking as near everything else.

-- 
*Do paediatricians play miniature golf on Wednesdays?

    Dave Plowman     dave@davesound.co.uk     London SW 12

Dave Plowman  wrote:

> In article <1io53iq.1z1234r1wx7tnfN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>,
>    Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:
> > The TD was a relic when new. It can only reasonably be compared to the
> > Anglia which was about as fast and probably the better car.
> 
> The Anglia current with the TD was probably the crudest car available new
> in the UK and was terrible in just about every way.

Indeed, as was the TD.

Dave Plowman  wrote:

> That would be the one with the 1250 engine? Again you've obviously never
> driven one. Great fun to drive.

With the wind whistling through one's Arran jumper, blowing the pipe
embers into a healthy glow as one headed for a pub that sold beer with
twigs in. The entire journey completed at a stately 30mph.

Dave Plowman wrote:
> In article <1io53iq.1z1234r1wx7tnfN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>,
>    Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:
>> The TD was a relic when new. It can only reasonably be compared to the
>> Anglia which was about as fast and probably the better car.
> 
> The Anglia current with the TD was probably the crudest car available new
> in the UK and was terrible in just about every way. Thanks for confirming
> your knowledge of older cars is equally as lacking as near everything else.
> 

My knowledge of older cars is largely confined to freezing to death 
inside them on motorway hard shoulders and lying underneath them in the 
snow trying to undo/do up a bolt in a vain attempt to get the fucker fixed.

In article <gc296k$mj6$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
   Silk  wrote:
> Dave Plowman wrote:
> > In article <1io53iq.1z1234r1wx7tnfN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>,
> >    Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:
> >> The TD was a relic when new. It can only reasonably be compared to the
> >> Anglia which was about as fast and probably the better car.
> > 
> > The Anglia current with the TD was probably the crudest car available
> > new in the UK and was terrible in just about every way. Thanks for
> > confirming your knowledge of older cars is equally as lacking as near
> > everything else.
> > 

> My knowledge of older cars is largely confined to freezing to death
> inside them on motorway hard shoulders and lying underneath them in the
> snow trying to undo/do up a bolt in a vain attempt to get the fucker
> fixed.

Sounds like you'd have best left things to someone who knew what they were
doing. Like fixing the heater for a start. And of course servicing it
properly.

-- 
*If you can't see my mirrors, I'm doing my hair*

    Dave Plowman     dave@davesound.co.uk     London SW 12

Dave Plowman wrote:

> Sounds like you'd have best left things to someone who knew what they were
> doing.

My current car has covered nearly 100,000 miles since I bought it new 
and it has never let me down. Obviously the people who designed it knew 
exactly what they were doing.

  Like fixing the heater for a start.

The heater doesn't work if the engine's fucked.

  And of course servicing it
> properly.

My car goes 20,000 miles between servicing and all they need to do is 
change the oil and spray a bit of WD40 into the engine compartment for 
effect.

In article <gc2vfe$ggb$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
   Silk  wrote:
> > Sounds like you'd have best left things to someone who knew what they
> > were doing.

> My current car has covered nearly 100,000 miles since I bought it new 
> and it has never let me down. Obviously the people who designed it knew 
> exactly what they were doing.

And the 'old cars' you were complaining about for breaking down were  new
at that time too?

>   Like fixing the heater for a start.

> The heater doesn't work if the engine's fucked.

>   And of course servicing it
> > properly.

> My car goes 20,000 miles between servicing and all they need to do is 
> change the oil and spray a bit of WD40 into the engine compartment for 
> effect.

You can extend the service intervals on older cars by using modern oils
too.

-- 
*OK, so what's the speed of dark? *

    Dave Plowman     dave@davesound.co.uk     London SW 12

"Dave Plowman"  wrote in message 
news:4fe82ec5e1dave@davenoise.co.uk...
> In article <gc2vfe$ggb$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
>   Silk  wrote:
>> > Sounds like you'd have best left things to someone who knew 
>> > what they
>> > were doing.
>
>> My current car has covered nearly 100,000 miles since I bought 
>> it new
>> and it has never let me down. Obviously the people who 
>> designed it knew
>> exactly what they were doing.
>
> And the 'old cars' you were complaining about for breaking down 
> were  new
> at that time too?
>
>>   Like fixing the heater for a start.
>
>> The heater doesn't work if the engine's fucked.
>
>>   And of course servicing it
>> > properly.
>
>> My car goes 20,000 miles between servicing and all they need 
>> to do is
>> change the oil and spray a bit of WD40 into the engine 
>> compartment for
>> effect.
>
> You can extend the service intervals on older cars by using 
> modern oils
> too.

Not so sure I'd agree with that. Maybe for the engine and 
transmission, but cars of that era had numerous greasing nipples. 
King pins, ball joints, propshafts, spring shackles etc. Then 
there was the requirement to re-grease wheel bearings at regular 
intervals.
IME some of those listed above needed greasing at the 3-6k 
recommended service intervals, otherwise they would start to run 
dry.
Mike.

"Dave Plowman"  wrote in message 
news:4fe78ad858dave@davenoise.co.uk...
> In article <1io4z7e.1h5mjrs1rkwplgN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>,
>   Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:
>> > Ok then, smartarse. In the mid '50s which affordable sports 
>> > car or
>> > sports saloon would you have bought?
>
>> Austin-Healey 100, XK120.
>
> Neither of which was in the same class, price wise. And I take 
> it you have
> never driven a Healey 100 - they were absolute dogs to drive. 
> The 120
> better - but it's bad points probably fade from the memory just 
> about as
> quick as the brakes.
>
>> Anything other than the 1200cc bag of nails styled by a blind 
>> wardrobe
>> maker that was the TD.
>
> That would be the one with the 1250 engine? Again you've 
> obviously never
> driven one. Great fun to drive.

I'd agree with that. Brother had the earlier TA in the 50's. 
Never let him down, and for it's day the roadholding was 
excellent. In the twisty bits it was more than a match for later 
faster cars like the TR2.
Mike.

"Silk"  wrote in message 
news:gc5p1t$um7$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> Mike G wrote:
>>
>> "Dave Plowman"  wrote in message 
>> news:4fe82ec5e1dave@davenoise.co.uk...
>>> In article <gc2vfe$ggb$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
>>>   Silk  wrote:
>>>> > Sounds like you'd have best left things to someone who 
>>>> > knew > what
>>>> they
>>>> > were doing.
>>>
>>>> My current car has covered nearly 100,000 miles since I 
>>>> bought it new
>>>> and it has never let me down. Obviously the people who 
>>>> designed it knew
>>>> exactly what they were doing.
>>>
>>> And the 'old cars' you were complaining about for breaking 
>>> down were  new
>>> at that time too?
>>>
>>>>   Like fixing the heater for a start.
>>>
>>>> The heater doesn't work if the engine's fucked.
>>>
>>>>   And of course servicing it
>>>> > properly.
>>>
>>>> My car goes 20,000 miles between servicing and all they need 
>>>> to do is
>>>> change the oil and spray a bit of WD40 into the engine 
>>>> compartment for
>>>> effect.
>>>
>>> You can extend the service intervals on older cars by using 
>>> modern oils
>>> too.
>>
>> Not so sure I'd agree with that. Maybe for the engine and 
>> transmission, but cars of that era had numerous greasing 
>> nipples. King pins, ball joints, propshafts, spring shackles 
>> etc. Then there was the requirement to re-grease wheel 
>> bearings at regular intervals.
>> IME some of those listed above needed greasing at the 3-6k 
>> recommended service intervals, otherwise they would start to 
>> run dry.
>> Mike.
>>
>
> Where did they find the time to drive them?

Motorists in general didn't do the high mileages that are common 
today, with thousands of reps travelling all over the country 
etc, and having a car was a luxury that most ordinary working 
class people couldn't afford.
A new cheap car could cost anything up to a years income for most 
families.

It din't take long though to whip round the grease nipples with 
grease gun.
Most could be reached without getting under the car.
Mike.

Mike G wrote:
> 
> "Silk"  wrote in message 
> news:gc5p1t$um7$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>> Mike G wrote:
>>>
>>> "Dave Plowman"  wrote in message 
>>> news:4fe82ec5e1dave@davenoise.co.uk...
>>>> In article <gc2vfe$ggb$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
>>>>   Silk  wrote:
>>>>> > Sounds like you'd have best left things to someone who > knew > what
>>>>> they
>>>>> > were doing.
>>>>
>>>>> My current car has covered nearly 100,000 miles since I bought it new
>>>>> and it has never let me down. Obviously the people who designed it 
>>>>> knew
>>>>> exactly what they were doing.
>>>>
>>>> And the 'old cars' you were complaining about for breaking down 
>>>> were  new
>>>> at that time too?
>>>>
>>>>>   Like fixing the heater for a start.
>>>>
>>>>> The heater doesn't work if the engine's fucked.
>>>>
>>>>>   And of course servicing it
>>>>> > properly.
>>>>
>>>>> My car goes 20,000 miles between servicing and all they need to do is
>>>>> change the oil and spray a bit of WD40 into the engine compartment for
>>>>> effect.
>>>>
>>>> You can extend the service intervals on older cars by using modern oils
>>>> too.
>>>
>>> Not so sure I'd agree with that. Maybe for the engine and 
>>> transmission, but cars of that era had numerous greasing nipples. 
>>> King pins, ball joints, propshafts, spring shackles etc. Then there 
>>> was the requirement to re-grease wheel bearings at regular intervals.
>>> IME some of those listed above needed greasing at the 3-6k 
>>> recommended service intervals, otherwise they would start to run dry.
>>> Mike.
>>>
>>
>> Where did they find the time to drive them?
> 
> Motorists in general didn't do the high mileages that are common today, 
> with thousands of reps travelling all over the country etc, and having a 
> car was a luxury that most ordinary working class people couldn't afford.
> A new cheap car could cost anything up to a years income for most families.

I think you'll find a new car still costs a year's income for a lot of 
families.