So many people seem to have a problem with traffic lights, yet they are one 
of the easiest hazards to deal with.

Approach a green traffic light in the knowledge it WILL turn red at some 
point. Approach the lights planning to stop, but looking to go. So, apply 
the brakes with enough pressure to stop at the stop line. If the lights do 
change to amber, there is nothing more to do - just continue braking to a 
smooth stop. However, if you get to a point you KNOW you can pass the stop 
line before the lights change, release the brakes and accelerate. If the 
lights do then change, there is nothing more to do - just keep accelerating 
as you were before.

If you find after you have made the decision to go, the lights change and 
you hit the brakes, your decision to go was made too soon.

It is just incredible how many drivers have to slam on the brakes 
approaching lights.



-- 
MrBitsy
Rover 75 CDTi

"MrBitsy"  wrote in message 
news:LovCk.88476$O51.88136@newsfe23.ams2...
> So many people seem to have a problem with traffic lights, yet they are 
> one of the easiest hazards to deal with.
>
> Approach a green traffic light in the knowledge it WILL turn red at some 
> point. Approach the lights planning to stop, but looking to go. So, apply 
> the brakes with enough pressure to stop at the stop line. If the lights do 
> change to amber, there is nothing more to do - just continue braking to a 
> smooth stop. However, if you get to a point you KNOW you can pass the stop 
> line before the lights change, release the brakes and accelerate. If the 
> lights do then change, there is nothing more to do - just keep 
> accelerating as you were before.
>
> If you find after you have made the decision to go, the lights change and 
> you hit the brakes, your decision to go was made too soon.
>
> It is just incredible how many drivers have to slam on the brakes 
> approaching lights.

Why are you repeating yourself from a few days ago?

And to brake for every green light is just plain bananas.

Graculus wrote:
> "MrBitsy"  wrote in message 
> news:LovCk.88476$O51.88136@newsfe23.ams2...
>> So many people seem to have a problem with traffic lights, yet they 
>> are one of the easiest hazards to deal with.
>>
>> Approach a green traffic light in the knowledge it WILL turn red at 
>> some point. Approach the lights planning to stop, but looking to go. 
>> So, apply the brakes with enough pressure to stop at the stop line. If 
>> the lights do change to amber, there is nothing more to do - just 
>> continue braking to a smooth stop. However, if you get to a point you 
>> KNOW you can pass the stop line before the lights change, release the 
>> brakes and accelerate. If the lights do then change, there is nothing 
>> more to do - just keep accelerating as you were before.
>>
>> If you find after you have made the decision to go, the lights change 
>> and you hit the brakes, your decision to go was made too soon.
>>
>> It is just incredible how many drivers have to slam on the brakes 
>> approaching lights.
> 
> Why are you repeating yourself from a few days ago?
> 
> And to brake for every green light is just plain bananas.

Indeed.

It's as daft as speeding past a Gatso not long after you have assured other 
posters that you have to be blind to miss one.

MrBitsy wrote:
> So many people seem to have a problem with traffic lights, yet they
> are one of the easiest hazards to deal with.
>
> Approach a green traffic light in the knowledge it WILL turn red at
> some point. Approach the lights planning to stop, but looking to go.
> So, apply the brakes with enough pressure to stop at the stop line.
> If the lights do change to amber, there is nothing more to do - just
> continue braking to a smooth stop. However, if you get to a point you
> KNOW you can pass the stop line before the lights change, release the
> brakes and accelerate. If the lights do then change, there is nothing
> more to do - just keep accelerating as you were before.
>
> If you find after you have made the decision to go, the lights change
> and you hit the brakes, your decision to go was made too soon.
>
> It is just incredible how many drivers have to slam on the brakes
> approaching lights.

All summed up by a failure to anticipate.

MrBitsy expressed precisely :
> Approach a green traffic light in the knowledge it WILL turn red at some 
> point. Approach the lights planning to stop, but looking to go. So, apply the 
> brakes with enough pressure to stop at the stop line. If the lights do change 
> to amber, there is nothing more to do - just continue braking to a smooth 
> stop. However, if you get to a point you KNOW you can pass the stop line 
> before the lights change, release the brakes and accelerate. If the lights do 
> then change, there is nothing more to do - just keep accelerating as you were 
> before.

That bit makes no sense Ray. Are you saying you approach all green 
traffic lights with your brakes on?

Every time I approach green lights, I draw an imaginary line across the 
road. That line represents my point of decision. If the lights start to 
change before I get to the line I stop. If they change after the line I 
continue. The lines position on the road is set by my speed, the 
condition of the road surface and aims to give me ample time to stop 
without drama. I don't need to think or dither, I just do it.

-- 
Regards,
        Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

"MrBitsy"  wrote in message 
news:LovCk.88476$O51.88136@newsfe23.ams2...
> So many people seem to have a problem with traffic lights, yet they are 
> one of the easiest hazards to deal with.
>
> Approach a green traffic light in the knowledge it WILL turn red at some 
> point. Approach the lights planning to stop, but looking to go. So, apply 
> the brakes with enough pressure to stop at the stop line. If the lights do 
> change to amber, there is nothing more to do - just continue braking to a 
> smooth stop. However, if you get to a point you KNOW you can pass the stop 
> line before the lights change, release the brakes and accelerate. If the 
> lights do then change, there is nothing more to do - just keep 
> accelerating as you were before.
>
> If you find after you have made the decision to go, the lights change and 
> you hit the brakes, your decision to go was made too soon.
>
> It is just incredible how many drivers have to slam on the brakes 
> approaching lights.
>
>
>
> -- 
> MrBitsy
> Rover 75 CDTi

A lot often depends upon local knowledge of the lights, the sequence of the 
junction in question, traffic volume, your road speed etc.  I beg to differ 
re your idea of braking as you approach even though lights are on green.  If 
I read your note as you intended, you appear to say you start to brake 
whether it is actually required or not.  Taking it to the extreme for 
example, when on a 60mph dual carriageway why brake and perhaps drop down to 
20mph or less on the off chance the approaching lights may start a change 
sequence?
I do agree with you re drivers slamming the brakes on at the last minute 
through their lack of anticipation / reading the road conditions etc but 
your method is far from ideal too.
If you can see the lights ahead you can often 'estimate' if they are about 
to change given the length of time they have been static. e.g.. if changed 
to green 7 seconds earlier then there is often little chance of a change to 
red.  On the other-hand if they had been on green while approaching then for 
the past 1/2 mile or so then a change is perhaps on the cards and it would 
be prudent to lift off the accelerator in anticipation and preparation to 
take corrective action if necessary but I would not automatically apply the 
brakes unless amber appeared.

Viewing traffic lights as a hazard and not an aid to traffic management 
perhaps makes you act as you do..........Not a criticism just an 
observation............and no, I do not think traffic lights are the answer 
to all junctions and traffic flow  e.g. lights on roundabout's still 
controlling flow outwith peak periods.  Should introduce flashing amber as 
in France.  ;-)

Gio.

MrBitsy wrote:
> So many people seem to have a problem with traffic lights, yet they are 
> one of the easiest hazards to deal with.
> 
> Approach a green traffic light in the knowledge it WILL turn red at some 
> point. Approach the lights planning to stop, but looking to go. So, 
> apply the brakes with enough pressure to stop at the stop line. 

  i.e. none at all until you are 3 seconds from the line.

>If the 
> lights do change to amber, there is nothing more to do - just continue 
> braking to a smooth stop. However, if you get to a point you KNOW you 
> can pass the stop line before the lights change, release the brakes and 

  You can never know that you can pass the stop line before the lights 
change (from green to amber).

> accelerate. If the lights do then change, there is nothing more to do - 
> just keep accelerating as you were before.
> 
> It is just incredible how many drivers have to slam on the brakes 
> approaching lights.

  Nothing in your advice stops them doing that.

"MrBitsy"  wrote in message 
news:LovCk.88476$O51.88136@newsfe23.ams2...
> So many people seem to have a problem with traffic lights, yet they are 
> one of the easiest hazards to deal with.
>
> Approach a green traffic light in the knowledge it WILL turn red at some 
> point. Approach the lights planning to stop, but looking to go. So, apply 
> the brakes with enough pressure to stop at the stop line.

So you *always* brake when driving towards a green traffic light?
Most odd


-- 
Alex

"I laugh in the face of danger , then I hide until it goes away"

www.drzoidberg.co.uk

"MrBitsy"  wrote in message 
news:LovCk.88476$O51.88136@newsfe23.ams2...
> So many people seem to have a problem with traffic lights, yet they are 
> one of the easiest hazards to deal with.
>
> Approach a green traffic light in the knowledge it WILL turn red at some 
> point. Approach the lights planning to stop, but looking to go.

So you're one of those, do you also slow down when approaching a roundabout 
with 2 mile sighting distance?.

james

"Graculus"  wrote in message 
news:6jvem7F5daq1U1@mid.individual.net...
> "MrBitsy"  wrote in message 
> news:LovCk.88476$O51.88136@newsfe23.ams2...
>> So many people seem to have a problem with traffic lights, yet they are 
>> one of the easiest hazards to deal with.
>>
>> Approach a green traffic light in the knowledge it WILL turn red at some 
>> point. Approach the lights planning to stop, but looking to go. So, apply 
>> the brakes with enough pressure to stop at the stop line. If the lights 
>> do change to amber, there is nothing more to do - just continue braking 
>> to a smooth stop. However, if you get to a point you KNOW you can pass 
>> the stop line before the lights change, release the brakes and 
>> accelerate. If the lights do then change, there is nothing more to do - 
>> just keep accelerating as you were before.
>>
>> If you find after you have made the decision to go, the lights change and 
>> you hit the brakes, your decision to go was made too soon.
>>
>> It is just incredible how many drivers have to slam on the brakes 
>> approaching lights.
>
> Why are you repeating yourself from a few days ago?
>
> And to brake for every green light is just plain bananas.


The only other alternative is to slam on the brakes when they change - or 
have you a better technique?
-- 
MrBitsy
Rover 75 CDTi

"Harry Bloomfield"  wrote in message 
news:mn.c4b47d89550a1a38.86812@NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk...
> MrBitsy expressed precisely :
>> Approach a green traffic light in the knowledge it WILL turn red at some 
>> point. Approach the lights planning to stop, but looking to go. So, apply 
>> the brakes with enough pressure to stop at the stop line. If the lights 
>> do change to amber, there is nothing more to do - just continue braking 
>> to a smooth stop. However, if you get to a point you KNOW you can pass 
>> the stop line before the lights change, release the brakes and 
>> accelerate. If the lights do then change, there is nothing more to do - 
>> just keep accelerating as you were before.
>
> That bit makes no sense Ray. Are you saying you approach all green traffic 
> lights with your brakes on?
>
> Every time I approach green lights, I draw an imaginary line across the 
> road. That line represents my point of decision. If the lights start to 
> change before I get to the line I stop. If they change after the line I 
> continue. The lines position on the road is set by my speed, the condition 
> of the road surface and aims to give me ample time to stop without drama. 
> I don't need to think or dither, I just do it.


If you are going to brake smoothly to a stop, then your imaginary line would 
need to be far enough back to allow you the room to slow smoothly. Think 
about approaching a T junction and the point you would normally start 
braking for the stop line - is this how far back from the lights your 
imaginary line would be?


-- 
MrBitsy
Rover 75 CDTi

"Gio"  wrote in message news:gbe33p$jeg$1@news.datemas.de...
>
> "MrBitsy"  wrote in message 
> news:LovCk.88476$O51.88136@newsfe23.ams2...
>> So many people seem to have a problem with traffic lights, yet they are 
>> one of the easiest hazards to deal with.
>>
>> Approach a green traffic light in the knowledge it WILL turn red at some 
>> point. Approach the lights planning to stop, but looking to go. So, apply 
>> the brakes with enough pressure to stop at the stop line. If the lights 
>> do change to amber, there is nothing more to do - just continue braking 
>> to a smooth stop. However, if you get to a point you KNOW you can pass 
>> the stop line before the lights change, release the brakes and 
>> accelerate. If the lights do then change, there is nothing more to do - 
>> just keep accelerating as you were before.
>>
>> If you find after you have made the decision to go, the lights change and 
>> you hit the brakes, your decision to go was made too soon.
>>
>> It is just incredible how many drivers have to slam on the brakes 
>> approaching lights.
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> MrBitsy
>> Rover 75 CDTi
>
> A lot often depends upon local knowledge of the lights, the sequence of 
> the junction in question, traffic volume, your road speed etc.  I beg to 
> differ re your idea of braking as you approach even though lights are on 
> green.  If I read your note as you intended, you appear to say you start 
> to brake whether it is actually required or not.

If there is a possibility the lights may change, then surely you need to 
slow in anticipation of them doing so. If you don't, then you will need to 
brake more heavily than you would for a T junction, for example.

> Taking it to the extreme for example, when on a 60mph dual carriageway why 
> brake and perhaps drop down to 20mph or less on the off chance the 
> approaching lights may start a change sequence?

To be able to stop smoothly and safely at the stop line.

> I do agree with you re drivers slamming the brakes on at the last minute 
> through their lack of anticipation / reading the road conditions etc but 
> your method is far from ideal too.

Either one plans to stop, but looks to go, or one slams the brakes on when 
the lights change.

> If you can see the lights ahead you can often 'estimate' if they are about 
> to change given the length of time they have been static. e.g.. if changed 
> to green 7 seconds earlier then there is often little chance of a change 
> to red.

Many traffic lights have a sequence based on traffic approaching the lights. 
In an unfamiliar area, how would you know?

>  On the other-hand if they had been on green while approaching then for 
> the past 1/2 mile or so then a change is perhaps on the cards and it would 
> be prudent to lift off the accelerator in anticipation and preparation to 
> take corrective action if necessary but I would not automatically apply 
> the brakes unless amber appeared.

That technique will often see you applying heavy brake pressure when the 
lights change.

> Viewing traffic lights as a hazard and not an aid to traffic management 
> perhaps makes you act as you do..........Not a criticism just an 
> observation............and no, I do not think traffic lights are the 
> answer to all junctions and traffic flow  e.g. lights on roundabout's 
> still controlling flow outwith peak periods.  Should introduce flashing 
> amber as in France.  ;-)

I act as I do to maximize safety.


-- 
MrBitsy
Rover 75 CDTi

"Nick Finnigan"  wrote in message 
news:gbe5id$lp3$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> MrBitsy wrote:
>> So many people seem to have a problem with traffic lights, yet they are 
>> one of the easiest hazards to deal with.
>>
>> Approach a green traffic light in the knowledge it WILL turn red at some 
>> point. Approach the lights planning to stop, but looking to go. So, apply 
>> the brakes with enough pressure to stop at the stop line.
>
>  i.e. none at all until you are 3 seconds from the line.
>
>>If the lights do change to amber, there is nothing more to do - just 
>>continue braking to a smooth stop. However, if you get to a point you KNOW 
>>you can pass the stop line before the lights change, release the brakes 
>>and
>
>  You can never know that you can pass the stop line before the lights 
> change (from green to amber).

If the desicion to go isn't made too soon, then it is imaterial if the 
lights change to amber - there will be enough time to pass before the red.

>> accelerate. If the lights do then change, there is nothing more to do - 
>> just keep accelerating as you were before.
>>
>> It is just incredible how many drivers have to slam on the brakes 
>> approaching lights.
>
>  Nothing in your advice stops them doing that.

Then you didn't read my post.


-- 
MrBitsy
Rover 75 CDTi

"Dr Zoidberg" <AlexNOOO!!!!!!!!@drzoidberg.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:gbe62b$q9j$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> "MrBitsy"  wrote in message 
> news:LovCk.88476$O51.88136@newsfe23.ams2...
>> So many people seem to have a problem with traffic lights, yet they are 
>> one of the easiest hazards to deal with.
>>
>> Approach a green traffic light in the knowledge it WILL turn red at some 
>> point. Approach the lights planning to stop, but looking to go. So, apply 
>> the brakes with enough pressure to stop at the stop line.
>
> So you *always* brake when driving towards a green traffic light?
> Most odd


How heavy do you have to brake for a traffic light changing to amber - same 
as for any other junction/roundabout, or heavier?

-- 
MrBitsy
Rover 75 CDTi

"jamesd1974"  wrote in message 
news:ypxCk.83982$bB4.15669@newsfe14.ams2...
> "MrBitsy"  wrote in message 
> news:LovCk.88476$O51.88136@newsfe23.ams2...
>> So many people seem to have a problem with traffic lights, yet they are 
>> one of the easiest hazards to deal with.
>>
>> Approach a green traffic light in the knowledge it WILL turn red at some 
>> point. Approach the lights planning to stop, but looking to go.
>
> So you're one of those, do you also slow down when approaching a 
> roundabout with 2 mile sighting distance?.


One of what?

I treat roundabouts the same - I plan to stop, but look to go. I brake 
smoothly so I WILL stop at the give way line. If I get to the roundabout but 
am unable to enter, I have nothing more to do. However, if while slowing I 
can see a gap, I can release the brakes, select the gear for the speed and 
slot into the gap.

Are you one of those that plans to go, then has to brake heavy when there 
isn't a gap?

-- 
MrBitsy
Rover 75 CDTi

MrBitsy laid this down on his screen :
> If you are going to brake smoothly to a stop, then your imaginary line would 
> need to be far enough back to allow you the room to slow smoothly. Think 
> about approaching a T junction and the point you would normally start braking 
> for the stop line - is this how far back from the lights your imaginary line 
> would be?

This isn't a T junction where you will need to come almost to a stop, 
these are traffic lights in your favour, where if you approach at the 
speed limit they should give you adequate time to stop smoothly. The 
only variable to be considered is where you need to place your 
'decision line'.

Following you, I would find it most annoying to see your brake lights 
come on at every green light.

-- 
Regards,
        Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

"MrBitsy"  wrote

> If there is a possibility the lights may change, then surely you need to 
> slow in anticipation of them doing so.

If you slow down, there is more chance of them changing.

> If you don't, then you will need to brake more heavily than you would for 
> a T junction, for example.

Is there a problem with heavy braking so long as it is done with awaremess 
of someone behind?

"MrBitsy"  wrote in message

snip
>
> Either one plans to stop, but looks to go, or one slams the brakes on when
> the lights change.
>
>> If you can see the lights ahead you can often 'estimate' if they are
>> about to change given the length of time they have been static. e.g.. if
>> changed to green 7 seconds earlier then there is often little chance of a
>> change to red.
>
> Many traffic lights have a sequence based on traffic approaching the
> lights. In an unfamiliar area, how would you know?
>
>>  On the other-hand if they had been on green while approaching then for
>> the past 1/2 mile or so then a change is perhaps on the cards and it
>> would be prudent to lift off the accelerator in anticipation and
>> preparation to take corrective action if necessary but I would not
>> automatically apply the brakes unless amber appeared.
>
> That technique will often see you applying heavy brake pressure when the
> lights change.
>
>> Viewing traffic lights as a hazard and not an aid to traffic management
>> perhaps makes you act as you do..........Not a criticism just an
>> observation............and no, I do not think traffic lights are the
>> answer to all junctions and traffic flow  e.g. lights on roundabout's
>> still controlling flow outwith peak periods.  Should introduce flashing
>> amber as in France.  ;-)
>
> I act as I do to maximize safety.
>
>
> -- 
> MrBitsy
> Rover 75 CDTi

I can only conclude you intend to annoy other drivers on the road by a 
rather strange attitude with a view to impeding traffic flow unnecessarily 
through the inappropriate use of brake lights -just as you appear to rattle 
the group on this matter too.  ;-)
If that was your intention? Then full marks because I have not seen anyone 
in agreement with you and as Harry said earlier, I am just glad I do not 
follow you on the road. :-)
I take it you apply the same logic to every road junction you come across 
when out driving, with or without controlling lights because after all there 
is always the risk that a driver may emerge from a driveway or side road and 
will not stop?

I am all for controlled safe stopping and observing traffic lights but 
unless you jest, you must be the 'Sunday Driver' from hell.  :-)

Gio

"MrBitsy"  wrote in message 
news:gPyCk.120030$uP.63730@newsfe09.ams2...
> "Graculus"  wrote in message 
> news:6jvem7F5daq1U1@mid.individual.net...
>> "MrBitsy"  wrote in message 
>> news:LovCk.88476$O51.88136@newsfe23.ams2...
>>> So many people seem to have a problem with traffic lights, yet they are 
>>> one of the easiest hazards to deal with.
>>>
>>> Approach a green traffic light in the knowledge it WILL turn red at some 
>>> point. Approach the lights planning to stop, but looking to go. So, 
>>> apply the brakes with enough pressure to stop at the stop line. If the 
>>> lights do change to amber, there is nothing more to do - just continue 
>>> braking to a smooth stop. However, if you get to a point you KNOW you 
>>> can pass the stop line before the lights change, release the brakes and 
>>> accelerate. If the lights do then change, there is nothing more to do - 
>>> just keep accelerating as you were before.
>>>
>>> If you find after you have made the decision to go, the lights change 
>>> and you hit the brakes, your decision to go was made too soon.
>>>
>>> It is just incredible how many drivers have to slam on the brakes 
>>> approaching lights.
>>
>> Why are you repeating yourself from a few days ago?
>>
>> And to brake for every green light is just plain bananas.
>
>
> The only other alternative is to slam on the brakes when they change - or 
> have you a better technique?

I always thought that traffic lights have an amber phase, which is precisely 
to prevent you from having to slow down "just in case" they change from 
green straight to red. I won't repeat what Harry Bloomfield has posted in 
this thread, as it's exactly what I'd have said.

Following Mr Bitsy's advice, how slow should I go in this case? Dual 
carriageway, NSL (i.e. 70) limit, traffic lights for side turn. I approach 
at 70, lights are green. What do I do? How much should I slow down? 60? 50? 
40? Daft!

MrBitsy wrote:
|| "Nick Finnigan"  wrote in message
|| news:gbe5id$lp3$1@registered.motzarella.org...
||| MrBitsy wrote:
|||| So many people seem to have a problem with traffic lights, yet
|||| they are one of the easiest hazards to deal with.
||||
|||| Approach a green traffic light in the knowledge it WILL turn red
|||| at some point. Approach the lights planning to stop, but looking
|||| to go. So, apply the brakes with enough pressure to stop at the
|||| stop line.
|||
|||  i.e. none at all until you are 3 seconds from the line.
|||
|||| If the lights do change to amber, there is nothing more to do -
|||| just continue braking to a smooth stop. However, if you get to a
|||| point you KNOW you can pass the stop line before the lights
|||| change, release the brakes and
|||
|||  You can never know that you can pass the stop line before the
||| lights change (from green to amber).
||
|| If the desicion to go isn't made too soon, then it is imaterial if
|| the lights change to amber - there will be enough time to pass
|| before the red.

Nifty bit of footwork there!
So, assuming you've accepted your previous error, aren't you simply saying 
that one should set a point where you decide that you *will* proceed, which 
is what the vast majority of us do without any braking, and without any 
problems whatsoever?

-- 
Rob

> I treat roundabouts the same - I plan to stop, but look to go. I brake 
> smoothly so I WILL stop at the give way line. If I get to the roundabout 
> but am unable to enter, I have nothing more to do. However, if while 
> slowing I can see a gap, I can release the brakes, select the gear for the 
> speed and slot into the gap.
>
> Are you one of those that plans to go, then has to brake heavy when there 
> isn't a gap?
>
> -- 
> MrBitsy
> Rover 75 CDTi


surely you don't do this at every roundabout, what if you can see clearly on 
the approach there is nothing coming?

james

In article , Harry 
Bloomfield says...

> That bit makes no sense Ray. Are you saying you approach all green 
> traffic lights with your brakes on?
> 
You approach them covering the brake expecting that you may need to 
stop until.....

> Every time I approach green lights, I draw an imaginary line across the 
> road. That line represents my point of decision. If the lights start to 
> change before I get to the line I stop. If they change after the line I 
> continue. The lines position on the road is set by my speed, the 
> condition of the road surface and aims to give me ample time to stop 
> without drama. I don't need to think or dither, I just do it.
> 
Which is pretty much as you're supposed to do.

-- 
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't 
looking good either. - Scott Adams

MrBitsy wrote:
> "Nick Finnigan"  wrote in message 
> news:gbe5id$lp3$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> 
>> MrBitsy wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Approach a green traffic light in the knowledge it WILL turn red at 
>>> some point. Approach the lights planning to stop, but looking to go. 
>>> So, apply the brakes with enough pressure to stop at the stop line.
>>
>>  i.e. none at all until you are 3 seconds from the line.
>>
>>> If the lights do change to amber, there is nothing more to do - just 
>>> continue braking to a smooth stop. However, if you get to a point you 
>>> KNOW you can pass the stop line before the lights change, release the 
>>> brakes and
>>
>>  You can never know that you can pass the stop line before the lights 
>> change (from green to amber).
> 
> If the desicion to go isn't made too soon, then it is imaterial if the 
> lights change to amber - there will be enough time to pass before the red.

  OK, you are moving your goalposts.
After we are 2.9 seconds from the stop line, we don't need to brake.

Unfortunately, many drivers think the law does not say 'go if you can 
get through on amber', but 'stop on amber if you can safely do so'.

>>> accelerate. If the lights do then change, there is nothing more to do 
>>> - just keep accelerating as you were before.
>>>
>>> It is just incredible how many drivers have to slam on the brakes 
>>> approaching lights.
>>
>>
>>  Nothing in your advice stops them doing that.
> 
> 
> Then you didn't read my post.

  I read it, that is why you had to move the goalposts.

"Rob"  wrote in message 
news:s_SdnQGm1P7_VEbVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@bt.com...
> MrBitsy wrote:
> || "Nick Finnigan"  wrote in message
> || news:gbe5id$lp3$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> ||| MrBitsy wrote:
> |||| So many people seem to have a problem with traffic lights, yet
> |||| they are one of the easiest hazards to deal with.
> ||||
> |||| Approach a green traffic light in the knowledge it WILL turn red
> |||| at some point. Approach the lights planning to stop, but looking
> |||| to go. So, apply the brakes with enough pressure to stop at the
> |||| stop line.
> |||
> |||  i.e. none at all until you are 3 seconds from the line.
> |||
> |||| If the lights do change to amber, there is nothing more to do -
> |||| just continue braking to a smooth stop. However, if you get to a
> |||| point you KNOW you can pass the stop line before the lights
> |||| change, release the brakes and
> |||
> |||  You can never know that you can pass the stop line before the
> ||| lights change (from green to amber).
> ||
> || If the desicion to go isn't made too soon, then it is imaterial if
> || the lights change to amber - there will be enough time to pass
> || before the red.
>
> Nifty bit of footwork there!
> So, assuming you've accepted your previous error, aren't you simply saying 
> that one should set a point where you decide that you *will* proceed, 
> which is what the vast majority of us do without any braking, and without 
> any problems whatsoever?


You're forgetting the heavy braking you do when the light goes amber.

-- 
MrBitsy
Rover 75 CDTi

"jamesd1974"  wrote in message 
news:r7QCk.421$6I.341@newsfe03.ams2...
>> I treat roundabouts the same - I plan to stop, but look to go. I brake 
>> smoothly so I WILL stop at the give way line. If I get to the roundabout 
>> but am unable to enter, I have nothing more to do. However, if while 
>> slowing I can see a gap, I can release the brakes, select the gear for 
>> the speed and slot into the gap.
>>
>> Are you one of those that plans to go, then has to brake heavy when there 
>> isn't a gap?
>>
>> -- 
>> MrBitsy
>> Rover 75 CDTi
>
>
> surely you don't do this at every roundabout, what if you can see clearly 
> on the approach there is nothing coming?


Depends on the approach speed, visibility and curve of the roundabout.

-- 
MrBitsy
Rover 75 CDTi

"Conor"  wrote in message 
news:6k23h8F5n88iU4@mid.individual.net...
> In article , Harry
> Bloomfield says...
>
>> That bit makes no sense Ray. Are you saying you approach all green
>> traffic lights with your brakes on?
>>
> You approach them covering the brake expecting that you may need to
> stop until.....
>
>> Every time I approach green lights, I draw an imaginary line across the
>> road. That line represents my point of decision. If the lights start to
>> change before I get to the line I stop. If they change after the line I
>> continue. The lines position on the road is set by my speed, the
>> condition of the road surface and aims to give me ample time to stop
>> without drama. I don't need to think or dither, I just do it.
>>
> Which is pretty much as you're supposed to do.


Describe the process at 60mph, when the lights change to amber - braking 
force required?

-- 
MrBitsy
Rover 75 CDTi

"MrBitsy"  wrote in message 
news:C4zCk.120038$uP.5727@newsfe09.ams2...
>
> Are you one of those that plans to go, then has to brake heavy when there 
> isn't a gap?
>
> -- 
> MrBitsy
> Rover 75 CDTi


What's wrong with braking heavy? are the brakes on your Rover made from 
wetabix? have you every seen traffic slow for no reason? it's idiots like 
you that cause this problem.

-- 
ThePunisher

MrBitsy wrote:
|| "Rob"  wrote in message
|| news:s_SdnQGm1P7_VEbVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@bt.com...
||| MrBitsy wrote:
||||| "Nick Finnigan"  wrote in message
||||| news:gbe5id$lp3$1@registered.motzarella.org...
|||||| MrBitsy wrote:
||||||| So many people seem to have a problem with traffic lights, yet
||||||| they are one of the easiest hazards to deal with.
|||||||
||||||| Approach a green traffic light in the knowledge it WILL turn red
||||||| at some point. Approach the lights planning to stop, but looking
||||||| to go. So, apply the brakes with enough pressure to stop at the
||||||| stop line.
||||||
||||||  i.e. none at all until you are 3 seconds from the line.
||||||
||||||| If the lights do change to amber, there is nothing more to do -
||||||| just continue braking to a smooth stop. However, if you get to a
||||||| point you KNOW you can pass the stop line before the lights
||||||| change, release the brakes and
||||||
||||||  You can never know that you can pass the stop line before the
|||||| lights change (from green to amber).
|||||
||||| If the desicion to go isn't made too soon, then it is imaterial if
||||| the lights change to amber - there will be enough time to pass
||||| before the red.
|||
||| Nifty bit of footwork there!
||| So, assuming you've accepted your previous error, aren't you simply
||| saying that one should set a point where you decide that you *will*
||| proceed, which is what the vast majority of us do without any
||| braking, and without any problems whatsoever?
||
||
|| You're forgetting the heavy braking you do when the light goes amber.

I don't do any heavy braking, not at lights, nor anywhere else.

-- 
Rob

MrBitsy wrote:
> "Conor"  wrote in message 
> news:6k23h8F5n88iU4@mid.individual.net...
> 
>> In article , Harry
>> Bloomfield says...
>>
>>> That bit makes no sense Ray. Are you saying you approach all green
>>> traffic lights with your brakes on?
>>>
>> You approach them covering the brake expecting that you may need to
>> stop until.....
>>
>>> Every time I approach green lights, I draw an imaginary line across the
>>> road. That line represents my point of decision. If the lights start to
>>> change before I get to the line I stop. If they change after the line I
>>> continue. The lines position on the road is set by my speed, the
>>> condition of the road surface and aims to give me ample time to stop
>>> without drama. I don't need to think or dither, I just do it.
>>>
>> Which is pretty much as you're supposed to do. 
> 
> Describe the process at 60mph, when the lights change to amber - braking 
> force required?

  You have at least 6 seconds of braking, to lose 27m/s of speed, so 
deceleration is < .44g. Force depends on mass, gradient, wind...

"MrBitsy"  wrote in message 
news:6ySCk.137080$Tk5.54356@newsfe13.ams2...
> "Conor"  wrote in message 
> news:6k23h8F5n88iU4@mid.individual.net...
>> In article , Harry
>> Bloomfield says...
>>
>>> That bit makes no sense Ray. Are you saying you approach all green
>>> traffic lights with your brakes on?
>>>
>> You approach them covering the brake expecting that you may need to
>> stop until.....
>>
>>> Every time I approach green lights, I draw an imaginary line across the
>>> road. That line represents my point of decision. If the lights start to
>>> change before I get to the line I stop. If they change after the line I
>>> continue. The lines position on the road is set by my speed, the
>>> condition of the road surface and aims to give me ample time to stop
>>> without drama. I don't need to think or dither, I just do it.
>>>
>> Which is pretty much as you're supposed to do.
>
>
> Describe the process at 60mph, when the lights change to amber - braking 
> force required?
>
None at all if you are close to the junction , very little if you are some 
way off , reasonably firm if it happens just at the closest to the junction 
when you can reasonably be expected to stop



-- 
Alex

"I laugh in the face of danger , then I hide until it goes away"

www.drzoidberg.co.uk

"ThePunisher"  wrote in message 
news:eOSCk.65951$oR7.8747@newsfe28.ams2...
> "MrBitsy"  wrote in message 
> news:C4zCk.120038$uP.5727@newsfe09.ams2...
>>
>> Are you one of those that plans to go, then has to brake heavy when there 
>> isn't a gap?
>>
>> -- 
>> MrBitsy
>> Rover 75 CDTi
>
>
> What's wrong with braking heavy? are the brakes on your Rover made from 
> wetabix? have you every seen traffic slow for no reason? it's idiots like 
> you that cause this problem.


What problem?

-- 
MrBitsy
Rover 75 CDTi

In article <6ySCk.137080$Tk5.54356@newsfe13.ams2>, MrBitsy says...

> Describe the process at 60mph, when the lights change to amber - braking 
> force required?
> 
If you're past the point of no return, you keep on going. The lights 
are supposed to be timed so that you can get through before they go to 
red when you've passed that point or you can stop if you've not got to 
it yet.


-- 
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't 
looking good either. - Scott Adams

MrBitsy wrote:
> Approach a green traffic light in the knowledge it WILL turn red at some 
> point. Approach the lights planning to stop, but looking to go. So, apply 
> the brakes with enough pressure to stop at the stop line. If the lights do 

I disagree with the suggestion of braking.  I never brake as I approach
green lights.  You're absolutely right that a green light only has one
way to go, and if you're approaching it you can anticpate this.  I don't
find there's a formula for it but do find that each one just kind of
works out.  I tend to come off the gas as I get closer to it and use
acceleration sense to drop speed, sometimes going into 3rd gear to
assist, and covering the brake.

If it changes I can gently press the brake to come to a complete stop in
time.  If it doesn't change and I get to the point of being able to get
through, I switch to the accelerator and get my speed back up again, and
this is where being in 3rd also helps.

What I don't do is start using my brakes and displaying brake lights
every time I approach traffic lights "just in case".

Chris

"MrBitsy"  wrote in message 
news:nwSCk.137027$Tk5.134834@newsfe13.ams2...
> "jamesd1974"  wrote in message 
> news:r7QCk.421$6I.341@newsfe03.ams2...
>>> I treat roundabouts the same - I plan to stop, but look to go. I brake 
>>> smoothly so I WILL stop at the give way line. If I get to the roundabout 
>>> but am unable to enter, I have nothing more to do. However, if while 
>>> slowing I can see a gap, I can release the brakes, select the gear for 
>>> the speed and slot into the gap.
>>>
>>> Are you one of those that plans to go, then has to brake heavy when 
>>> there isn't a gap?
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> MrBitsy
>>> Rover 75 CDTi
>>
>>
>> surely you don't do this at every roundabout, what if you can see clearly 
>> on the approach there is nothing coming?
>
>
> Depends on the approach speed, visibility and curve of the roundabout.

How many other obstacles/dangers/pedestrians have you 'missed' whilst 
worrying about traffic lights?
I can't ever remember (in 43 years) traffic lights causing a problem. The 
whole thing is automatic. If I followed someone who hit the brakes 'in case 
the lights change' i'd call them a c***. No wonder we have traffic jams. Are 
you also one of these 'people' who have to see a country mile of zero 
traffic before you turn right?
It beggars belief.

"Chris Lawrence"  wrote in message 
news:48dd640b$0$519$bed64819@news.gradwell.net...
> MrBitsy wrote:
>> Approach a green traffic light in the knowledge it WILL turn red at some
>> point. Approach the lights planning to stop, but looking to go. So, apply
>> the brakes with enough pressure to stop at the stop line. If the lights 
>> do
>
> I disagree with the suggestion of braking.  I never brake as I approach
> green lights.  You're absolutely right that a green light only has one
> way to go, and if you're approaching it you can anticpate this.  I don't
> find there's a formula for it but do find that each one just kind of
> works out.  I tend to come off the gas as I get closer to it and use
> acceleration sense to drop speed, sometimes going into 3rd gear to
> assist, and covering the brake.

So you slow as you approach the traffic lights by using engine braking, but 
I prefer to use the brakes to slow down.

> If it changes I can gently press the brake to come to a complete stop in
> time.

If you can always brake 'gently', then I feel you must have slowed from a 
long way back using the gears. If you were to approach the lights at the 
speed limit, as suggested by others, then your method just wouldn't work.

> If it doesn't change and I get to the point of being able to get
> through, I switch to the accelerator and get my speed back up again, and
> this is where being in 3rd also helps.

Being in third does not help - changing to a lower gear while already moving 
does not cost time.

> What I don't do is start using my brakes and displaying brake lights
> every time I approach traffic lights "just in case".

I plan to stop but look to go - nothing to do with 'just in case'.


-- 
MrBitsy
Rover 75 CDTi

"fred"  wrote in message 
news:009c0a81$0$18620$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
>
> "MrBitsy"  wrote in message 
> news:nwSCk.137027$Tk5.134834@newsfe13.ams2...
>> "jamesd1974"  wrote in message 
>> news:r7QCk.421$6I.341@newsfe03.ams2...
>>>> I treat roundabouts the same - I plan to stop, but look to go. I brake 
>>>> smoothly so I WILL stop at the give way line. If I get to the 
>>>> roundabout but am unable to enter, I have nothing more to do. However, 
>>>> if while slowing I can see a gap, I can release the brakes, select the 
>>>> gear for the speed and slot into the gap.
>>>>
>>>> Are you one of those that plans to go, then has to brake heavy when 
>>>> there isn't a gap?
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> MrBitsy
>>>> Rover 75 CDTi
>>>
>>>
>>> surely you don't do this at every roundabout, what if you can see 
>>> clearly on the approach there is nothing coming?
>>
>>
>> Depends on the approach speed, visibility and curve of the roundabout.
>
> How many other obstacles/dangers/pedestrians have you 'missed' whilst 
> worrying about traffic lights?

Worrying about traffic lights - where do you get that from?

Approaching the light fast means all attention will be on the lights 
themselves waiting for them to change. Exactly the same happens at 
roundabouts - driver approaches fast planning to go, then has to hit the 
brakes when there is no gap. Planning to stop at the roundabout means the 
brakes are applied to stop at the stop line. All attention can now be given 
to looking for a gap - all attention can be given to looking for the gap.

> I can't ever remember (in 43 years) traffic lights causing a problem. The 
> whole thing is automatic. If I followed someone who hit the brakes 'in 
> case the lights change' i'd call them a c***.

Why - do you always follow cars ahead closely?

> No wonder we have traffic jams.

Many traffic jams are caused by drivers tailgating and approaching junctions 
too fast. So many times I am slower into a roundabout or junction than 
another driver, yet a lot faster through it.

> Are you also one of these 'people' who have to see a country mile of zero 
> traffic before you turn right?

No, I approach the junction planning to stop, but looking to go. By 
approaching the junction with this mindset, I don't have to brake heavily 
and am better able to spot opportunities.

> It beggars belief.

It does that you hold on to these silly ideas - you also think you're 'going 
backwards' if people merge ahead of you in queues, don't you.


-- 
MrBitsy
Rover 75 CDTi

MrBitsy wrote:
> So you slow as you approach the traffic lights by using engine braking, but 
> I prefer to use the brakes to slow down.

Gawd.  It's really simple.  It's much harder to describe the process
than just do it.  When the lights turn to amber, you have from your
current position to the stop line in which to stop.  The slower you are
going, or the further away the stop line, the smoother this will be.
Call the start of the smooth braking point, for your given speed, the
decision line.

I maintain my speed until I feel I am close enough, at that speed, to be
around where the start of the decision line is.  I allow my speed to
decrease gently, and this means I am essentially chasing the line, which
is moving closer to the lights to reflect my decreasing speed.

At some point I will be close enough to the lights such that if they now
changed, I would be able to clear the stop line at this current speed.
If the lights are still green at this point I accelerate and don't give
them another thought.  I am usually covering the brake while decreasing
speed, so that if the lights do change, I can start the smooth braking
and come to a stop.

Note that knowledge of the lights and visibility and their layout can
also play a part in how you approach.  Some lights can be taken without
any change in speed at all.  In practice I don't drop speed much at all,
as I can brake smoothly even when braking firmly.

Heavy braking is less than optimal, but it is certainly not a sin, and I
would say it's still more preferable than your behaviour, using your
brakes and showing brake lights every time you come to a set of lights.

> If you can always brake 'gently', then I feel you must have slowed from a 
> long way back using the gears. If you were to approach the lights at the 
> speed limit, as suggested by others, then your method just wouldn't work.

And yet it does work, as above.  I simply don't seem to have the
dilemmas that you do.

>> If it doesn't change and I get to the point of being able to get
>> through, I switch to the accelerator and get my speed back up again, and
>> this is where being in 3rd also helps.
> 
> Being in third does not help - changing to a lower gear while already moving 
> does not cost time.

Sorry but it does help.  It assists with slowing down and it avoids
changing gears at or in a junction.  Besides, I know my car better than
you know my car.

>> What I don't do is start using my brakes and displaying brake lights
>> every time I approach traffic lights "just in case".
> 
> I plan to stop but look to go - nothing to do with 'just in case'.

Planning to stop is "just in case".  Try it without using your brakes
from now on.  If I can do it I'm sure you can.

Chris

"MrBitsy"  wrote in message 
news:PD0Dk.153475$Tk5.24015@newsfe13.ams2...
> "ThePunisher"  wrote in message 
> news:eOSCk.65951$oR7.8747@newsfe28.ams2...
>> "MrBitsy"  wrote in message 
>> news:C4zCk.120038$uP.5727@newsfe09.ams2...
>>>
>>> Are you one of those that plans to go, then has to brake heavy when 
>>> there isn't a gap?
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> MrBitsy
>>> Rover 75 CDTi
>>
>>
>> What's wrong with braking heavy? are the brakes on your Rover made from 
>> wetabix? have you every seen traffic slow for no reason? it's idiots like 
>> you that cause this problem.
>
>
> What problem?
>


'Traffic slow for no reason' can't you fucking read?

-- 
ThePunisher

"ThePunisher"  wrote in message 
news:g4aEk.56497$8f7.24583@newsfe20.ams2...
> "MrBitsy"  wrote in message 
> news:PD0Dk.153475$Tk5.24015@newsfe13.ams2...
>> "ThePunisher"  wrote in message 
>> news:eOSCk.65951$oR7.8747@newsfe28.ams2...
>>> "MrBitsy"  wrote in message 
>>> news:C4zCk.120038$uP.5727@newsfe09.ams2...
>>>>
>>>> Are you one of those that plans to go, then has to brake heavy when 
>>>> there isn't a gap?
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> MrBitsy
>>>> Rover 75 CDTi
>>>
>>>
>>> What's wrong with braking heavy? are the brakes on your Rover made from 
>>> wetabix? have you every seen traffic slow for no reason? it's idiots 
>>> like you that cause this problem.
>>
>>
>> What problem?
>>
>
>
> 'Traffic slow for no reason' can't you fucking read?


I can also anticipate and understand why drivers do what  they do.
-- 
MrBitsy
Rover 75 CDTi

"MrBitsy"  wrote in message 
news:HbbEk.44831$fd.25550@newsfe12.ams2...
> "ThePunisher"  wrote in message 
> news:g4aEk.56497$8f7.24583@newsfe20.ams2...
>> "MrBitsy"  wrote in message 
>> news:PD0Dk.153475$Tk5.24015@newsfe13.ams2...
>>> "ThePunisher"  wrote in message 
>>> news:eOSCk.65951$oR7.8747@newsfe28.ams2...
>>>> "MrBitsy"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:C4zCk.120038$uP.5727@newsfe09.ams2...
>>>>>
>>>>> Are you one of those that plans to go, then has to brake heavy when 
>>>>> there isn't a gap?
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> MrBitsy
>>>>> Rover 75 CDTi
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What's wrong with braking heavy? are the brakes on your Rover made from 
>>>> wetabix? have you every seen traffic slow for no reason? it's idiots 
>>>> like you that cause this problem.
>>>
>>>
>>> What problem?
>>>
>>
>>
>> 'Traffic slow for no reason' can't you fucking read?
>
>
> I can also anticipate and understand why drivers do what  they do.


Of course you can, answer me this, when you had you stint as a driving 
instructor did you teach your pupils to brake when aproaching green traffic 
lights?

-- 
ThePunisher

"ThePunisher"  wrote in message 
news:9wvEk.21305$Ax7.2997@newsfe14.ams2...
> "MrBitsy"  wrote in message 
> news:HbbEk.44831$fd.25550@newsfe12.ams2...
>> "ThePunisher"  wrote in message 
>> news:g4aEk.56497$8f7.24583@newsfe20.ams2...
>>> "MrBitsy"  wrote in message 
>>> news:PD0Dk.153475$Tk5.24015@newsfe13.ams2...
>>>> "ThePunisher"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:eOSCk.65951$oR7.8747@newsfe28.ams2...
>>>>> "MrBitsy"  wrote in message 
>>>>> news:C4zCk.120038$uP.5727@newsfe09.ams2...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you one of those that plans to go, then has to brake heavy when 
>>>>>> there isn't a gap?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> MrBitsy
>>>>>> Rover 75 CDTi
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What's wrong with braking heavy? are the brakes on your Rover made 
>>>>> from wetabix? have you every seen traffic slow for no reason? it's 
>>>>> idiots like you that cause this problem.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What problem?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 'Traffic slow for no reason' can't you fucking read?
>>
>>
>> I can also anticipate and understand why drivers do what  they do.
>
>
> Of course you can, answer me this, when you had you stint as a driving 
> instructor did you teach your pupils to brake when aproaching green 
> traffic lights?


No, I told them to continue at the speed limit, but hit the brakes if the 
lights change.

-- 
MrBitsy
Rover 75 CDTi

>"MrBitsy"  wrote in message 
>news:q8MEk.88040$8f7.7743@newsfe20.ams2...
>> "ThePunisher"  wrote in message 
>> news:9wvEk.21305$Ax7.2997@newsfe14.ams2...
>> Of course you can, answer me this, when you had you stint as a driving 
>> instructor did you teach your pupils to brake when aproaching green 
>> traffic lights?
>
>
> No, I told them to continue at the speed limit, but hit the brakes if the 
> lights change.
>


So you gave them advice that you don't follow yourself? Which do yo think is 
correct?

-- 
ThePunisher

"ThePunisher"  wrote in message 
news:QR8Fk.2814$g36.2132@newsfe01.ams2...
> >"MrBitsy"  wrote in message 
> >news:q8MEk.88040$8f7.7743@newsfe20.ams2...
>>> "ThePunisher"  wrote in message 
>>> news:9wvEk.21305$Ax7.2997@newsfe14.ams2...
>>> Of course you can, answer me this, when you had you stint as a driving 
>>> instructor did you teach your pupils to brake when aproaching green 
>>> traffic lights?
>>
>>
>> No, I told them to continue at the speed limit, but hit the brakes if the 
>> lights change.
>>
>
>
> So you gave them advice that you don't follow yourself? Which do yo think 
> is correct?


You missed the sarcasm.

One must slow approaching green traffic lights. If one doesn't slow, then 
there is the chance one will have to brake very heavily when the lights 
change to amber.

Some have said they would allow the car to slow by engine braking. I don't 
agree this is the best way, because that would mean slowing much earlier and 
not showing a signal to those behind. I prefer to leave the slowing until 
closer to the lights and clearly signal this to those behind.

If one continues towards a green traffic light at the speed limit, then 
heavy braking is a certainty at many junctions.

-- 
MrBitsy
Rover 75 CDTi

On  2 Oct 2008 at 19:33, MrBitsy wrote:
> One must slow approaching green traffic lights. If one doesn't slow,
> then there is the chance one will have to brake very heavily when the
> lights change to amber.

This problem would not arise if the law was changed so that amber was
really a useful warning: the duration of the amber period should be
doubled, and it should be legal to cross the stop line during it.

This would give information to drivers sooner, and help them judge
whether they needed to stop.

In practice, of course, slowing for lights is a completely nonsense
unless you know there's a red light camera there.  Otherwise, if it
turns amber and you're in two minds about whether to break harshly or go
through, then you just go through.

Keith wrote:
> On  2 Oct 2008 at 19:33, MrBitsy wrote:
> 
>>One must slow approaching green traffic lights. If one doesn't slow,
>>then there is the chance one will have to brake very heavily when the
>>lights change to amber.
> 
> 
> This problem would not arise if the law was changed so that amber was
> really a useful warning: the duration of the amber period should be
> doubled, and it should be legal to cross the stop line during it.

  It is legal to cross the stop line during amber. MrB's second go at 
describing his approach was that he stops braking when he is sure he can 
get through on amber.

On  2 Oct 2008 at 20:41, Nick Finnigan wrote:
> Keith wrote:
>> This problem would not arise if the law was changed so that amber was
>> really a useful warning: the duration of the amber period should be
>> doubled, and it should be legal to cross the stop line during it.
>
>   It is legal to cross the stop line during amber.

Technically, it's only legal if you're so close that stopping might
result in a collision.

It should be legal absolutely. The function of the amber light should be
to provide a warning well in advance that the lights will soon change to
red.

"Keith"  wrote in message 
news:slrngeaboc.nm6.nospam@nospam.invalid...
> On  2 Oct 2008 at 19:33, MrBitsy wrote:
>> One must slow approaching green traffic lights. If one doesn't slow,
>> then there is the chance one will have to brake very heavily when the
>> lights change to amber.
>
> This problem would not arise if the law was changed so that amber was
> really a useful warning: the duration of the amber period should be
> doubled, and it should be legal to cross the stop line during it.
>
> This would give information to drivers sooner, and help them judge
> whether they needed to stop.
>
> In practice, of course, slowing for lights is a completely nonsense
> unless you know there's a red light camera there.  Otherwise, if it
> turns amber and you're in two minds about whether to break harshly or go
> through, then you just go through.

Then you are a fool.



-- 
MrBitsy
Rover 75 CDTi

On  3 Oct 2008 at 18:48, Nick Finnigan wrote:
>   No, you can legally cross the stop line on amber even if there is no 
> other traffic within a mile.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/si2002/20023113.htm

36 (e) the amber signal shall, when shown alone, convey the same
prohibition as the red signal, except that, as respects any vehicle
which is so close to the stop line that it cannot safely be stopped
without proceeding beyond the stop line, it shall convey the same
indication as the green signal or green arrow signal which was shown
immediately before it

"Tim Vincent"  wrote in message 
news:MPG.23507ef3597730ce9896df@News.Individual.net...
> In article <slrngecr7j.1jv.nospam@nospam.invalid>, keith@mailinator.com
> says...
>> On  3 Oct 2008 at 18:48, Nick Finnigan wrote:
>> >   No, you can legally cross the stop line on amber even if there is no
>> > other traffic within a mile.
>>
>> http://www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/si2002/20023113.htm
>>
>> 36 (e) the amber signal shall, when shown alone, convey the same
>> prohibition as the red signal, except that, as respects any vehicle
>> which is so close to the stop line that it cannot safely be stopped
>> without proceeding beyond the stop line, it shall convey the same
>> indication as the green signal or green arrow signal which was shown
>> immediately before it
>
> and when can a vehicle not be stopped safely?


When one is being tailgated?
-- 
MrBitsy
Rover 75 CDTi

On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:34:29 +0100, Nick Finnigan wrote:

> MrBitsy wrote:
>> "Conor"  wrote in message
>> news:6k23h8F5n88iU4@mid.individual.net...
>> 
>>> In article , Harry
>>> Bloomfield says...
>>>
>>>> That bit makes no sense Ray. Are you saying you approach all green
>>>> traffic lights with your brakes on?
>>>>
>>> You approach them covering the brake expecting that you may need to
>>> stop until.....
>>>
>>>> Every time I approach green lights, I draw an imaginary line across
>>>> the road. That line represents my point of decision. If the lights
>>>> start to change before I get to the line I stop. If they change after
>>>> the line I continue. The lines position on the road is set by my
>>>> speed, the condition of the road surface and aims to give me ample
>>>> time to stop without drama. I don't need to think or dither, I just
>>>> do it.
>>>>
>>> Which is pretty much as you're supposed to do.
>> 
>> Describe the process at 60mph, when the lights change to amber -
>> braking force required?
> 
>   You have at least 6 seconds of braking, to lose 27m/s of speed, so
> deceleration is < .44g. Force depends on mass, gradient, wind...

Six seconds? Where did that come from? The amber light is always set at 
*three* seconds, regardless of the speed limit in force. So that makes 
the necessary average deceleration ~0.88g by your calculations - which is 
a pretty severe stop.

The last couple of posts here are on about thew same thing...

<http://www.theiet.org/forums/forum/messageview.cfm?
catid=227&threadid=9046>

PCPaul wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:34:29 +0100, Nick Finnigan wrote:
> 
> 
>>MrBitsy wrote:
>>
>>>"Conor"  wrote in message
>>>news:6k23h8F5n88iU4@mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>>
>>>>In article , Harry
>>>>Bloomfield says...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>That bit makes no sense Ray. Are you saying you approach all green
>>>>>traffic lights with your brakes on?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You approach them covering the brake expecting that you may need to
>>>>stop until.....
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Every time I approach green lights, I draw an imaginary line across
>>>>>the road. That line represents my point of decision. If the lights
>>>>>start to change before I get to the line I stop. If they change after
>>>>>the line I continue. The lines position on the road is set by my
>>>>>speed, the condition of the road surface and aims to give me ample
>>>>>time to stop without drama. I don't need to think or dither, I just
>>>>>do it.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Which is pretty much as you're supposed to do.
>>>
>>>Describe the process at 60mph, when the lights change to amber -
>>>braking force required?
>>
>>  You have at least 6 seconds of braking, to lose 27m/s of speed, so
>>deceleration is < .44g. Force depends on mass, gradient, wind...
> 
> 
> Six seconds? Where did that come from? The amber light is always set at 
> *three* seconds, regardless of the speed limit in force. So that makes 

  From *three* seconds at initial speed, therefore you have six seconds 
for braking before you reach the line.

> the necessary average deceleration ~0.88g by your calculations - which is 
> a pretty severe stop.

  No, it is <.44g.

Keith wrote:
> On  3 Oct 2008 at 18:48, Nick Finnigan wrote:
> 
>>  No, you can legally cross the stop line on amber even if there is no 
>>other traffic within a mile.
> 
> 
> http://www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/si2002/20023113.htm
> 
> 36 (e) the amber signal shall, when shown alone, convey the same
> prohibition as the red signal, except that, as respects any vehicle
> which is so close to the stop line that it cannot safely be stopped
> without proceeding beyond the stop line, it shall convey the same
> indication as the green signal or green arrow signal which was shown
> immediately before it

  Yes, I know, that clearly confirms that you can cross the stop line on 
amber if there is no vehicle within a mile. e.g. when you can not stop 
without proceeding beyond the stop line.

MrBitsy wrote:
> Some have said they would allow the car to slow by engine braking. I don't 
> agree this is the best way, because that would mean slowing much earlier and 
> not showing a signal to those behind.

No it doesn't mean "slowing much earlier", and no signal is needed (or
desirable) to those behind for such a small change in speed.  Clearly
you engage in much greater speed changes, but other people cannot be
responsible for your bizarre driving behaviour, even if they are
frustrated by the thought of being behind it.

Chris

"MrBitsy"  wrote in message 
news:Wl9Fk.1544$WO7.563@newsfe15.ams2...
> "ThePunisher"  wrote in message 
> news:QR8Fk.2814$g36.2132@newsfe01.ams2...
>> >"MrBitsy"  wrote in message 
>> >news:q8MEk.88040$8f7.7743@newsfe20.ams2...
>>>> "ThePunisher"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:9wvEk.21305$Ax7.2997@newsfe14.ams2...
>>>> Of course you can, answer me this, when you had you stint as a driving 
>>>> instructor did you teach your pupils to brake when aproaching green 
>>>> traffic lights?
>>>
>>>
>>> No, I told them to continue at the speed limit, but hit the brakes if 
>>> the lights change.
>>>
>>
>>
>> So you gave them advice that you don't follow yourself? Which do yo think 
>> is correct?
>
>
> You missed the sarcasm.

What sarcasm? what you wrote above is complety correct.

> One must slow approaching green traffic lights. If one doesn't slow, then 
> there is the chance one will have to brake very heavily when the lights 
> change to amber.

Is it any wonder that you didn't make it as a driving instructor.


-- 
ThePunisher

"ThePunisher"  wrote in message 
news:kq6Hk.5258$xU3.5201@newsfe19.ams2...
> "MrBitsy"  wrote in message 
> news:Wl9Fk.1544$WO7.563@newsfe15.ams2...
>> "ThePunisher"  wrote in message 
>> news:QR8Fk.2814$g36.2132@newsfe01.ams2...
>>> >"MrBitsy"  wrote in message 
>>> >news:q8MEk.88040$8f7.7743@newsfe20.ams2...
>>>>> "ThePunisher"  wrote in message 
>>>>> news:9wvEk.21305$Ax7.2997@newsfe14.ams2...
>>>>> Of course you can, answer me this, when you had you stint as a driving 
>>>>> instructor did you teach your pupils to brake when aproaching green 
>>>>> traffic lights?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No, I told them to continue at the speed limit, but hit the brakes if 
>>>> the lights change.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So you gave them advice that you don't follow yourself? Which do yo 
>>> think is correct?
>>
>>
>> You missed the sarcasm.
>
> What sarcasm? what you wrote above is complety correct.
>
>> One must slow approaching green traffic lights. If one doesn't slow, then 
>> there is the chance one will have to brake very heavily when the lights 
>> change to amber.
>
> Is it any wonder that you didn't make it as a driving instructor.


If you do not slow approach traffic lights, you will have to brake heavily 
if they change as you approach.

-- 
MrBitsy
Rover 75 CDTi