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Apologies in advance for a slightly lengthy thread.

My missus is a Driving Instructor.

She uses a BMW Mini Cooper 1.6 Diesel as her primary instruction car.
We bought this car brand new in May 2007 for around £17K.  It was, at
the time a new addition to the BMW Mini range.

We chose this car primarily because of the appeal to young pupils and
this has certainly proved worthwhile - it has brought in lots of work
- people often ask to be 'taught in the mini'.  I know 17K is
expensive for a tuition vehicle but we thought paying for a 'decent'
make of car from a reputable dealer would stand us in good stead.

We wanted something reliable, safe, good looking, economical, of
'small car size' and above all something my missus liked to drive.  It
is our 5th mini, but the first 1.6 Cooper Diesel model we have had
(due to it being a new addition to the range).

The reason I am posting is to gain some feedback on the expenses
involved with this car to date...

It had it's first clutch replacement at 22K miles - which some might
say is probably acceptable for a driving instruction vehicle.
However, all our other Mini's went well beyond this mileage and never
had a clutch replacement.  Other Driving Instructors with Mini's have
mentioned getting up to 80-90K miles before a clutch replacement is
required.  The clutch cost around £800 to replace and at the same time
the brakes all needed replacing for around £300.

Recently at 44K miles the clutch has gone again and taken the flywheel
with it this time.  Apparently the flywheel was cracked and required
replacing at the time of the clutch replacement. This time it came to
closer to £1500 because of the flywheel, but again the brakes all
round needed replacing and to make matters worse the discs all round
needed replacing too this time.

As you can see this is becoming expensive.

In addition to this a number of bulbs have required replacing on the
car - which we put down to just bad luck.  The car has also had a
rattle from the dashboard from about 1 month old and this has only
just been repaired by the dealer padding out the inners of the
dashboard with foam.  Another 'squeeking' sound has plagued the car
too and when my missus took the car to the dealer again she was given
more bad news...

The gearbox has 'gone' - hence the squeeking sound.  It will cost
around £3000 to replace.

The only relief this time is that the gearbox is covered under
warranty so will not cost us anything.

I need to add a few more points to this story so you get the full
picture...

As part of the vehicle signage (Driving school name, telephone etc) we
also agreed to advertise the local dealer - so we are advertising for
BMW Mini when the car is on the road.

Although tha car has bought in lots of work because of it's looks we
have also lost pupils because they are fed-up with having lessons
cancelled due to the car being garaged.  When the dealer has it in for
a repair it is usually for a couple of days and that amounts to days
of lost work for my missus.  It also amounts to loss of opportunity -
whilst she is not out advertising (driving) and also amounts to lost
revenue for the pupils that have cancelled and damage to her
reputation as an instructor.

I have vowed not to spend any more on this car and to trade it in for
something else (older Mini's seem to be more hard-wearing) but do you
think I would have any grounds if I wrote to BMW Mini and told them
this car is crap for all the above reasons and asked for some
retribution for the lost revenue.  Would they swap the car?  Would
they give any refund on the costs?  Should I really seek legal
advise?

On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 05:55:45 -0700 (PDT), Freddy-the-frog
 wrote:

>Apologies in advance for a slightly lengthy thread.
>
>My missus is a Driving Instructor.
>
>She uses a BMW Mini Cooper 1.6 Diesel as her primary instruction car.
>We bought this car brand new in May 2007 for around =A317K.  It was, at
>the time a new addition to the BMW Mini range.
>
>We chose this car primarily because of the appeal to young pupils and
>this has certainly proved worthwhile - it has brought in lots of work
>- people often ask to be 'taught in the mini'.  I know 17K is
>expensive for a tuition vehicle but we thought paying for a 'decent'
>make of car from a reputable dealer would stand us in good stead.
>
>We wanted something reliable, safe, good looking, economical, of
>'small car size' and above all something my missus liked to drive.  It
>is our 5th mini, but the first 1.6 Cooper Diesel model we have had
>(due to it being a new addition to the range).
>
>The reason I am posting is to gain some feedback on the expenses
>involved with this car to date...
>
>It had it's first clutch replacement at 22K miles - which some might
>say is probably acceptable for a driving instruction vehicle.
>However, all our other Mini's went well beyond this mileage and never
>had a clutch replacement.  Other Driving Instructors with Mini's have
>mentioned getting up to 80-90K miles before a clutch replacement is
>required.  The clutch cost around =A3800 to replace and at the same time
>the brakes all needed replacing for around =A3300.
>
>Recently at 44K miles the clutch has gone again and taken the flywheel
>with it this time.  Apparently the flywheel was cracked and required
>replacing at the time of the clutch replacement. This time it came to
>closer to =A31500 because of the flywheel, but again the brakes all
>round needed replacing and to make matters worse the discs all round
>needed replacing too this time.
>
>As you can see this is becoming expensive.

44,000 miles in just over a year?   That's quite a lot of mileage.
Probably what most cars would take 4 years to cover.  

Does the manufacturer's warranty have both a time and mileage limit?

Freddy-the-frog  gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying:


> The car has also had a rattle from the dashboard from about 1 month old 
> and this has only just been repaired by the dealer padding out the 
> inners of the dashboard with foam.

Who fitted the dual control pedals? Did the fitting require removal of 
the dashboard?

44K miles is a reflection of how busy she has been as an instructor
for the past year.
I don't know the ins and out's of the warranty - I am visiting the
dealer this weekend to check this and get a report of all the work
carried out on the car since new.


The dual controls were fitted by a He-man approved installer and he
would have had to dis-assemble part of the air-con below the dash but
not near teh top where teh rattle was.  A good point however - I will
verify this fact too.

Freddy-the-frog wrote:
> 44K miles is a reflection of how busy she has been as an instructor
> for the past year.
> I don't know the ins and out's of the warranty - I am visiting the
> dealer this weekend to check this and get a report of all the work
> carried out on the car since new.
> 
> 
> The dual controls were fitted by a He-man approved installer and he
> would have had to dis-assemble part of the air-con below the dash but
> not near teh top where teh rattle was.  A good point however - I will
> verify this fact too.

  Your main problems seem to be clutch and brakes, which can obviously 
be blamed on the installer of the dual controls, as well as the 
manufacturer, and is probably not very common option in a MINI.

  You could try asking the dealer whether the dual controls are a 
(known) problem.

"Freddy-the-frog"  wrote in message 
news:9abefd39-f147-49b4-b209-0ae47ca276d9@j33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
Apologies in advance for a slightly lengthy thread.

My missus is a Driving Instructor.

She uses a BMW Mini Cooper 1.6 Diesel as her primary instruction car.
We bought this car brand new in May 2007 for around £17K.  It was, at
the time a new addition to the BMW Mini range.

We chose this car primarily because of the appeal to young pupils and
this has certainly proved worthwhile - it has brought in lots of work
- people often ask to be 'taught in the mini'.  I know 17K is
expensive for a tuition vehicle but we thought paying for a 'decent'
make of car from a reputable dealer would stand us in good stead.

We wanted something reliable, safe, good looking, economical, of
'small car size' and above all something my missus liked to drive.  It
is our 5th mini, but the first 1.6 Cooper Diesel model we have had
(due to it being a new addition to the range).

The reason I am posting is to gain some feedback on the expenses
involved with this car to date...

It had it's first clutch replacement at 22K miles - which some might
say is probably acceptable for a driving instruction vehicle.
However, all our other Mini's went well beyond this mileage and never
had a clutch replacement.  Other Driving Instructors with Mini's have
mentioned getting up to 80-90K miles before a clutch replacement is
required.  The clutch cost around £800 to replace and at the same time
the brakes all needed replacing for around £300.

Recently at 44K miles the clutch has gone again and taken the flywheel
with it this time.  Apparently the flywheel was cracked and required
replacing at the time of the clutch replacement. This time it came to
closer to £1500 because of the flywheel, but again the brakes all
round needed replacing and to make matters worse the discs all round
needed replacing too this time.

As you can see this is becoming expensive.

In addition to this a number of bulbs have required replacing on the
car - which we put down to just bad luck.  The car has also had a
rattle from the dashboard from about 1 month old and this has only
just been repaired by the dealer padding out the inners of the
dashboard with foam.  Another 'squeeking' sound has plagued the car
too and when my missus took the car to the dealer again she was given
more bad news...

The gearbox has 'gone' - hence the squeeking sound.  It will cost
around £3000 to replace.

The only relief this time is that the gearbox is covered under
warranty so will not cost us anything.

I need to add a few more points to this story so you get the full
picture...

As part of the vehicle signage (Driving school name, telephone etc) we
also agreed to advertise the local dealer - so we are advertising for
BMW Mini when the car is on the road.

Although tha car has bought in lots of work because of it's looks we
have also lost pupils because they are fed-up with having lessons
cancelled due to the car being garaged.  When the dealer has it in for
a repair it is usually for a couple of days and that amounts to days
of lost work for my missus.  It also amounts to loss of opportunity -
whilst she is not out advertising (driving) and also amounts to lost
revenue for the pupils that have cancelled and damage to her
reputation as an instructor.

I have vowed not to spend any more on this car and to trade it in for
something else (older Mini's seem to be more hard-wearing) but do you
think I would have any grounds if I wrote to BMW Mini and told them
this car is crap for all the above reasons and asked for some
retribution for the lost revenue.  Would they swap the car?  Would
they give any refund on the costs?  Should I really seek legal
advise?

So what did you want to know?
Bad choice buying a mini costing that much.  If you had any business
sense you would have bought a much cheaper and more reliable car
to run about in.  Maybe bought two and made more money.
  Men don't like to learn in a girlie mini, they want
something like a corsa or fiesta.  If using the mini to earn a bit from
advertising and referring people to the garage made you pay out
so much - you were conned.
Maybe it is a problem with the way your wife drives?
Learners don't tend to cause that much damage to cars - I knew
a few people working for BSM and they never had as many
problems.

On 25 Jul, 20:58, "Paul P"  wrote:
> "Freddy-the-frog"  wrote in message
>
> news:9abefd39-f147-49b4-b209-0ae47ca276d9@j33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
> Apologies in advance for a slightly lengthy thread.
>
> My missus is a Driving Instructor.
>
> She uses a BMW Mini Cooper 1.6 Diesel as her primary instruction car.
> We bought this car brand new in May 2007 for around £17K.  It was, at
> the time a new addition to the BMW Mini range.
>
> We chose this car primarily because of the appeal to young pupils and
> this has certainly proved worthwhile - it has brought in lots of work
> - people often ask to be 'taught in the mini'.  I know 17K is
> expensive for a tuition vehicle but we thought paying for a 'decent'
> make of car from a reputable dealer would stand us in good stead.
>
> We wanted something reliable, safe, good looking, economical, of
> 'small car size' and above all something my missus liked to drive.  It
> is our 5th mini, but the first 1.6 Cooper Diesel model we have had
> (due to it being a new addition to the range).
>
> The reason I am posting is to gain some feedback on the expenses
> involved with this car to date...
>
> It had it's first clutch replacement at 22K miles - which some might
> say is probably acceptable for a driving instruction vehicle.
> However, all our other Mini's went well beyond this mileage and never
> had a clutch replacement.  Other Driving Instructors with Mini's have
> mentioned getting up to 80-90K miles before a clutch replacement is
> required.  The clutch cost around £800 to replace and at the same time
> the brakes all needed replacing for around £300.
>
> Recently at 44K miles the clutch has gone again and taken the flywheel
> with it this time.  Apparently the flywheel was cracked and required
> replacing at the time of the clutch replacement. This time it came to
> closer to £1500 because of the flywheel, but again the brakes all
> round needed replacing and to make matters worse the discs all round
> needed replacing too this time.
>
> As you can see this is becoming expensive.
>
> In addition to this a number of bulbs have required replacing on the
> car - which we put down to just bad luck.  The car has also had a
> rattle from the dashboard from about 1 month old and this has only
> just been repaired by the dealer padding out the inners of the
> dashboard with foam.  Another 'squeeking' sound has plagued the car
> too and when my missus took the car to the dealer again she was given
> more bad news...
>
> The gearbox has 'gone' - hence the squeeking sound.  It will cost
> around £3000 to replace.
>
> The only relief this time is that the gearbox is covered under
> warranty so will not cost us anything.
>
> I need to add a few more points to this story so you get the full
> picture...
>
> As part of the vehicle signage (Driving school name, telephone etc) we
> also agreed to advertise the local dealer - so we are advertising for
> BMW Mini when the car is on the road.
>
> Although tha car has bought in lots of work because of it's looks we
> have also lost pupils because they are fed-up with having lessons
> cancelled due to the car being garaged.  When the dealer has it in for
> a repair it is usually for a couple of days and that amounts to days
> of lost work for my missus.  It also amounts to loss of opportunity -
> whilst she is not out advertising (driving) and also amounts to lost
> revenue for the pupils that have cancelled and damage to her
> reputation as an instructor.
>
> I have vowed not to spend any more on this car and to trade it in for
> something else (older Mini's seem to be more hard-wearing) but do you
> think I would have any grounds if I wrote to BMW Mini and told them
> this car is crap for all the above reasons and asked for some
> retribution for the lost revenue.  Would they swap the car?  Would
> they give any refund on the costs?  Should I really seek legal
> advise?
>
> So what did you want to know?
> Bad choice buying a mini costing that much.  If you had any business
> sense you would have bought a much cheaper and more reliable car
> to run about in.  Maybe bought two and made more money.
>   Men don't like to learn in a girlie mini, they want
> something like a corsa or fiesta.  If using the mini to earn a bit from
> advertising and referring people to the garage made you pay out
> so much - you were conned.
> Maybe it is a problem with the way your wife drives?
> Learners don't tend to cause that much damage to cars - I knew
> a few people working for BSM and they never had as many
> problems.


Thanks for all the comments so far.

However, I disagree.  I do not think the wear on the clutch and brakes
are anything to do with the dual controls.  As mentioned this is our
5th Mini and no other car has had this amount of wear and tear.  Also
other local instructors with mini's and he-man dual controls fitted in
the same way by the same approved installer - and the same as our
previous mini's have not had problems.  It appears to me that the new
model of Mini Diesel Cooper has an inferior brand of clutch and
flywheel installed than previous models.

Also, I have no doubts about my wife's business sense.  The fact that
she has done 44K miles in just over a year - of pure instruction work,
and has a good turnover.  She is very popular in the local area and
never been short of work.  He pass rate is one of the highest in the
region too and pupils are prepared to wait to learn with her.  Also
the split of her pupils are 70% boys 30% girls so the comments of not
wanting to learn in a 'girlie mini' are just stereotypical.

We do actually have 2 mini's for instruction the older one (back-up
car that she is using now) has done 66K miles on it's original clutch
- has duals fitted and is still going strong on it's original brakes
too.  This car is a petrol Mini Cooper - hence different parts and no
doubt a better make of clutch.

Thanks for the comments all the same.

I am going to check if we have not been made aware of any recall
notifications with the Diesel cooper.

Paul P wrote:
> "Freddy-the-frog"  wrote in message
> news:9abefd39-f147-49b4-b209-0ae47ca276d9@j33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
> Apologies in advance for a slightly lengthy thread.
>
> My missus is a Driving Instructor.
>
> She uses a BMW Mini Cooper 1.6 Diesel as her primary instruction car.
> We bought this car brand new in May 2007 for around £17K.  It was, at
> the time a new addition to the BMW Mini range.
>
> We chose this car primarily because of the appeal to young pupils and
> this has certainly proved worthwhile - it has brought in lots of work
> - people often ask to be 'taught in the mini'.  I know 17K is
> expensive for a tuition vehicle but we thought paying for a 'decent'
> make of car from a reputable dealer would stand us in good stead.
>
> We wanted something reliable, safe, good looking, economical, of
> 'small car size' and above all something my missus liked to drive.  It
> is our 5th mini, but the first 1.6 Cooper Diesel model we have had
> (due to it being a new addition to the range).
>
> The reason I am posting is to gain some feedback on the expenses
> involved with this car to date...
>
> It had it's first clutch replacement at 22K miles - which some might
> say is probably acceptable for a driving instruction vehicle.
> However, all our other Mini's went well beyond this mileage and never
> had a clutch replacement.  Other Driving Instructors with Mini's have
> mentioned getting up to 80-90K miles before a clutch replacement is
> required.  The clutch cost around £800 to replace and at the same time
> the brakes all needed replacing for around £300.
>
> Recently at 44K miles the clutch has gone again and taken the flywheel
> with it this time.  Apparently the flywheel was cracked and required
> replacing at the time of the clutch replacement. This time it came to
> closer to £1500 because of the flywheel, but again the brakes all
> round needed replacing and to make matters worse the discs all round
> needed replacing too this time.
>
> As you can see this is becoming expensive.
>
> In addition to this a number of bulbs have required replacing on the
> car - which we put down to just bad luck.  The car has also had a
> rattle from the dashboard from about 1 month old and this has only
> just been repaired by the dealer padding out the inners of the
> dashboard with foam.  Another 'squeeking' sound has plagued the car
> too and when my missus took the car to the dealer again she was given
> more bad news...
>
> The gearbox has 'gone' - hence the squeeking sound.  It will cost
> around £3000 to replace.
>
> The only relief this time is that the gearbox is covered under
> warranty so will not cost us anything.
>
> I need to add a few more points to this story so you get the full
> picture...
>
> As part of the vehicle signage (Driving school name, telephone etc) we
> also agreed to advertise the local dealer - so we are advertising for
> BMW Mini when the car is on the road.
>
> Although tha car has bought in lots of work because of it's looks we
> have also lost pupils because they are fed-up with having lessons
> cancelled due to the car being garaged.  When the dealer has it in for
> a repair it is usually for a couple of days and that amounts to days
> of lost work for my missus.  It also amounts to loss of opportunity -
> whilst she is not out advertising (driving) and also amounts to lost
> revenue for the pupils that have cancelled and damage to her
> reputation as an instructor.
>
> I have vowed not to spend any more on this car and to trade it in for
> something else (older Mini's seem to be more hard-wearing) but do you
> think I would have any grounds if I wrote to BMW Mini and told them
> this car is crap for all the above reasons and asked for some
> retribution for the lost revenue.  Would they swap the car?  Would
> they give any refund on the costs?  Should I really seek legal
> advise?
>
> So what did you want to know?
> Bad choice buying a mini costing that much.  If you had any business
> sense you would have bought a much cheaper and more reliable car
> to run about in.  Maybe bought two and made more money.
>  Men don't like to learn in a girlie mini, they want
> something like a corsa or fiesta.  If using the mini to earn a bit
> from advertising and referring people to the garage made you pay out
> so much - you were conned.
> Maybe it is a problem with the way your wife drives?
> Learners don't tend to cause that much damage to cars - I knew
> a few people working for BSM and they never had as many
> problems.

Your usual unhelpful, "i know best and you're a prick" answer I see Paul. 
Why do you bother?

Mike P

"Freddy-the-frog"  wrote in message 
news:84aaadb6-e40f-4131-a6f2-47236c972b0f@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
On 25 Jul, 20:58, "Paul P"  wrote:
> "Freddy-the-frog"  wrote in message
>
> news:9abefd39-f147-49b4-b209-0ae47ca276d9@j33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
> Apologies in advance for a slightly lengthy thread.
>
> My missus is a Driving Instructor.
>
> She uses a BMW Mini Cooper 1.6 Diesel as her primary instruction car.
> We bought this car brand new in May 2007 for around £17K. It was, at
> the time a new addition to the BMW Mini range.
>
> We chose this car primarily because of the appeal to young pupils and
> this has certainly proved worthwhile - it has brought in lots of work
> - people often ask to be 'taught in the mini'. I know 17K is
> expensive for a tuition vehicle but we thought paying for a 'decent'
> make of car from a reputable dealer would stand us in good stead.
>
> We wanted something reliable, safe, good looking, economical, of
> 'small car size' and above all something my missus liked to drive. It
> is our 5th mini, but the first 1.6 Cooper Diesel model we have had
> (due to it being a new addition to the range).
>
> The reason I am posting is to gain some feedback on the expenses
> involved with this car to date...
>
> It had it's first clutch replacement at 22K miles - which some might
> say is probably acceptable for a driving instruction vehicle.
> However, all our other Mini's went well beyond this mileage and never
> had a clutch replacement. Other Driving Instructors with Mini's have
> mentioned getting up to 80-90K miles before a clutch replacement is
> required. The clutch cost around £800 to replace and at the same time
> the brakes all needed replacing for around £300.
>
> Recently at 44K miles the clutch has gone again and taken the flywheel
> with it this time. Apparently the flywheel was cracked and required
> replacing at the time of the clutch replacement. This time it came to
> closer to £1500 because of the flywheel, but again the brakes all
> round needed replacing and to make matters worse the discs all round
> needed replacing too this time.
>
> As you can see this is becoming expensive.
>
> In addition to this a number of bulbs have required replacing on the
> car - which we put down to just bad luck. The car has also had a
> rattle from the dashboard from about 1 month old and this has only
> just been repaired by the dealer padding out the inners of the
> dashboard with foam. Another 'squeeking' sound has plagued the car
> too and when my missus took the car to the dealer again she was given
> more bad news...
>
> The gearbox has 'gone' - hence the squeeking sound. It will cost
> around £3000 to replace.
>
> The only relief this time is that the gearbox is covered under
> warranty so will not cost us anything.
>
> I need to add a few more points to this story so you get the full
> picture...
>
> As part of the vehicle signage (Driving school name, telephone etc) we
> also agreed to advertise the local dealer - so we are advertising for
> BMW Mini when the car is on the road.
>
> Although tha car has bought in lots of work because of it's looks we
> have also lost pupils because they are fed-up with having lessons
> cancelled due to the car being garaged. When the dealer has it in for
> a repair it is usually for a couple of days and that amounts to days
> of lost work for my missus. It also amounts to loss of opportunity -
> whilst she is not out advertising (driving) and also amounts to lost
> revenue for the pupils that have cancelled and damage to her
> reputation as an instructor.
>
> I have vowed not to spend any more on this car and to trade it in for
> something else (older Mini's seem to be more hard-wearing) but do you
> think I would have any grounds if I wrote to BMW Mini and told them
> this car is crap for all the above reasons and asked for some
> retribution for the lost revenue. Would they swap the car? Would
> they give any refund on the costs? Should I really seek legal
> advise?
>
> So what did you want to know?
> Bad choice buying a mini costing that much. If you had any business
> sense you would have bought a much cheaper and more reliable car
> to run about in. Maybe bought two and made more money.
> Men don't like to learn in a girlie mini, they want
> something like a corsa or fiesta. If using the mini to earn a bit from
> advertising and referring people to the garage made you pay out
> so much - you were conned.
> Maybe it is a problem with the way your wife drives?
> Learners don't tend to cause that much damage to cars - I knew
> a few people working for BSM and they never had as many
> problems.


Thanks for all the comments so far.
******************************************************

Ignore the 'Paul P' - he's just a troll.

Strikes me that if you're advertising the dealer, you should be getting 
something out of it?  I.e. serious money off labour and repairs/free 
servicing etc surely?

-- 
Dan
Clio R27 F1 #65

On 26 Jul, 17:24, "DanB"  wrote:
> "Freddy-the-frog"  wrote in message
>
> news:84aaadb6-e40f-4131-a6f2-47236c972b0f@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On 25 Jul, 20:58, "Paul P"  wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Freddy-the-frog"  wrote in message
>
> >news:9abefd39-f147-49b4-b209-0ae47ca276d9@j33g2000pri.googlegroups.com..> > Apologies in advance for a slightly lengthy thread.
>
> > My missus is a Driving Instructor.
>
> > She uses a BMW Mini Cooper 1.6 Diesel as her primary instruction car.
> > We bought this car brand new in May 2007 for around £17K. It was, at
> > the time a new addition to the BMW Mini range.
>
> > We chose this car primarily because of the appeal to young pupils and
> > this has certainly proved worthwhile - it has brought in lots of work
> > - people often ask to be 'taught in the mini'. I know 17K is
> > expensive for a tuition vehicle but we thought paying for a 'decent'
> > make of car from a reputable dealer would stand us in good stead.
>
> > We wanted something reliable, safe, good looking, economical, of
> > 'small car size' and above all something my missus liked to drive. It
> > is our 5th mini, but the first 1.6 Cooper Diesel model we have had
> > (due to it being a new addition to the range).
>
> > The reason I am posting is to gain some feedback on the expenses
> > involved with this car to date...
>
> > It had it's first clutch replacement at 22K miles - which some might
> > say is probably acceptable for a driving instruction vehicle.
> > However, all our other Mini's went well beyond this mileage and never
> > had a clutch replacement. Other Driving Instructors with Mini's have
> > mentioned getting up to 80-90K miles before a clutch replacement is
> > required. The clutch cost around £800 to replace and at the same time
> > the brakes all needed replacing for around £300.
>
> > Recently at 44K miles the clutch has gone again and taken the flywheel
> > with it this time. Apparently the flywheel was cracked and required
> > replacing at the time of the clutch replacement. This time it came to
> > closer to £1500 because of the flywheel, but again the brakes all
> > round needed replacing and to make matters worse the discs all round
> > needed replacing too this time.
>
> > As you can see this is becoming expensive.
>
> > In addition to this a number of bulbs have required replacing on the
> > car - which we put down to just bad luck. The car has also had a
> > rattle from the dashboard from about 1 month old and this has only
> > just been repaired by the dealer padding out the inners of the
> > dashboard with foam. Another 'squeeking' sound has plagued the car
> > too and when my missus took the car to the dealer again she was given
> > more bad news...
>
> > The gearbox has 'gone' - hence the squeeking sound. It will cost
> > around £3000 to replace.
>
> > The only relief this time is that the gearbox is covered under
> > warranty so will not cost us anything.
>
> > I need to add a few more points to this story so you get the full
> > picture...
>
> > As part of the vehicle signage (Driving school name, telephone etc) we
> > also agreed to advertise the local dealer - so we are advertising for
> > BMW Mini when the car is on the road.
>
> > Although tha car has bought in lots of work because of it's looks we
> > have also lost pupils because they are fed-up with having lessons
> > cancelled due to the car being garaged. When the dealer has it in for
> > a repair it is usually for a couple of days and that amounts to days
> > of lost work for my missus. It also amounts to loss of opportunity -
> > whilst she is not out advertising (driving) and also amounts to lost
> > revenue for the pupils that have cancelled and damage to her
> > reputation as an instructor.
>
> > I have vowed not to spend any more on this car and to trade it in for
> > something else (older Mini's seem to be more hard-wearing) but do you
> > think I would have any grounds if I wrote to BMW Mini and told them
> > this car is crap for all the above reasons and asked for some
> > retribution for the lost revenue. Would they swap the car? Would
> > they give any refund on the costs? Should I really seek legal
> > advise?
>
> > So what did you want to know?
> > Bad choice buying a mini costing that much. If you had any business
> > sense you would have bought a much cheaper and more reliable car
> > to run about in. Maybe bought two and made more money.
> > Men don't like to learn in a girlie mini, they want
> > something like a corsa or fiesta. If using the mini to earn a bit from
> > advertising and referring people to the garage made you pay out
> > so much - you were conned.
> > Maybe it is a problem with the way your wife drives?
> > Learners don't tend to cause that much damage to cars - I knew
> > a few people working for BSM and they never had as many
> > problems.
>
> Thanks for all the comments so far.
> ******************************************************
>
> Ignore the 'Paul P' - he's just a troll.
>
> Strikes me that if you're advertising the dealer, you should be getting
> something out of it?  I.e. serious money off labour and repairs/free
> servicing etc surely?
>
> --
> Dan
> Clio R27 F1 #65

I agree and am going to press this issue when I speak to the dealer on
Monday.
The servicing is free anyway - as with all Mini's for the first 3
years ( I think), but even still the dealer has made a tidy sum out of
us.
I don't trust the dealer to be honest.  They are nice and polite -
first name terms and all that, but it's probably because I am keeping
them in caviar.
Everytime it goes in for a job something else that 'needs doing' gets
mentioned.  Obviously with an instruction car we cannot take chances.

thanks

"Mike P"  wrote in message 
news:6f0ebsF99ggaU1@mid.individual.net...

>
> Your usual unhelpful, "i know best and you're a prick" answer I see Paul. 
> Why do you bother?

Agreed...

However, what I find more annoying, is why everyone chose to re-post the OPs 
100 lines of text, in their replies? And in one reply from the OP, about 200 
lines of text, amounting to 7KB!

Has everyone in this forum forgotten how to trim postings?

tox

"Graz"  wrote in message 
news:4889d1e8.153200343@news.motzarella.org...
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 05:55:45 -0700 (PDT), Freddy-the-frog
>  wrote:
>
>>Apologies in advance for a slightly lengthy thread.
>>
>>My missus is a Driving Instructor.
>>
>>She uses a BMW Mini Cooper 1.6 Diesel as her primary instruction car.
>>We bought this car brand new in May 2007 for around =A317K.  It was, at
>>the time a new addition to the BMW Mini range.
>>
>>We chose this car primarily because of the appeal to young pupils and
>>this has certainly proved worthwhile - it has brought in lots of work
>>- people often ask to be 'taught in the mini'.  I know 17K is
>>expensive for a tuition vehicle but we thought paying for a 'decent'
>>make of car from a reputable dealer would stand us in good stead.
>>
>>We wanted something reliable, safe, good looking, economical, of
>>'small car size' and above all something my missus liked to drive.  It
>>is our 5th mini, but the first 1.6 Cooper Diesel model we have had
>>(due to it being a new addition to the range).
>>
>>The reason I am posting is to gain some feedback on the expenses
>>involved with this car to date...
>>
>>It had it's first clutch replacement at 22K miles - which some might
>>say is probably acceptable for a driving instruction vehicle.
>>However, all our other Mini's went well beyond this mileage and never
>>had a clutch replacement.  Other Driving Instructors with Mini's have
>>mentioned getting up to 80-90K miles before a clutch replacement is
>>required.  The clutch cost around =A3800 to replace and at the same time
>>the brakes all needed replacing for around =A3300.
>>
>>Recently at 44K miles the clutch has gone again and taken the flywheel
>>with it this time.  Apparently the flywheel was cracked and required
>>replacing at the time of the clutch replacement. This time it came to
>>closer to =A31500 because of the flywheel, but again the brakes all
>>round needed replacing and to make matters worse the discs all round
>>needed replacing too this time.
>>
>>As you can see this is becoming expensive.
>
> 44,000 miles in just over a year?   That's quite a lot of mileage.
> Probably what most cars would take 4 years to cover.
>
> Does the manufacturer's warranty have both a time and mileage limit?


It could be 3 years, 60K, or 3 years, unlimited.  Either way, 44K a year 
isn't excessive.

-- 
The DervMan
www.dervman.com

The Legend Returns wrote:
> "Mike P"  wrote in message
> news:6f0ebsF99ggaU1@mid.individual.net...
>
>>
>> Your usual unhelpful, "i know best and you're a prick" answer I see
>> Paul. Why do you bother?
>
> Agreed...
>
> However, what I find more annoying, is why everyone chose to re-post
> the OPs 100 lines of text, in their replies? And in one reply from
> the OP, about 200 lines of text, amounting to 7KB!
>
> Has everyone in this forum forgotten how to trim postings?
>
What forum?

Just in case you hadn't noticed, (which you obviously haven't) this is a 
Usenet newsgroup, not a forum.

Hint. It's a good idea to have a clue before criticising others.

"Brimstone"  wrote in message 
news:jfWdnXzSaoQ_6xbVnZ2dnUVZ8sjinZ2d@bt.com...
> The Legend Returns wrote:
>> "Mike P"  wrote in message
>> news:6f0ebsF99ggaU1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>
> Hint. It's a good idea to have a clue before criticising others.

Ah, a pedant surfaces.

Hint, that's you. Stupid boy...

HTH

The Legend Returns wrote:
> 
> However, what I find more annoying, is why everyone chose to re-post the OPs 
> 100 lines of text, in their replies? And in one reply from the OP, about 200 
> lines of text, amounting to 7KB!

  Two of us didn't.

> Has everyone in this forum forgotten how to trim postings?

  Nope.

The Legend Returns wrote:
> "Brimstone"  wrote in message
> news:jfWdnXzSaoQ_6xbVnZ2dnUVZ8sjinZ2d@bt.com...
>> The Legend Returns wrote:
>>> "Mike P"  wrote in message
>>> news:6f0ebsF99ggaU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>
>> Hint. It's a good idea to have a clue before criticising others.
>
> Ah, a pedant surfaces.
>
 Only someone incredibly cretinous uses a self-aggrandising screen name, 
insists on criticising others and then get his knickers in a twist when his 
own ignorance and stupidity is pointed out.

Statement of Fact: That's you.

"Brimstone"  wrote in message 
news:na-dnUjp3IXxHhbVnZ2dnUVZ8gOdnZ2d@bt.com...
> The Legend Returns wrote:
>> "Brimstone"  wrote in message
>> news:jfWdnXzSaoQ_6xbVnZ2dnUVZ8sjinZ2d@bt.com...
>>> The Legend Returns wrote:
>>>> "Mike P"  wrote in message
>>>> news:6f0ebsF99ggaU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>
>>>
>>> Hint. It's a good idea to have a clue before criticising others.
>>
>> Ah, a pedant surfaces.
>>
> Only someone incredibly cretinous uses a self-aggrandising screen name, 
> insists on criticising others and then get his knickers in a twist when 
> his own ignorance and stupidity is pointed out.
>
> Statement of Fact: That's you.

<SIGH>

In your haste to berate me, it's you who has ended up looking like a Muppet. 
You're now grasping at straws and demonstrating to this FORUM, you posses 
the IQ of a daffodil.

So, shit for brains, (statement of fact: That's you!) run along and play 
with your Lego set, or whatever else you do, before mummy puts you to bed...

In article
,
   Freddy-the-frog  wrote:
> Recently at 44K miles the clutch has gone again and taken the flywheel
> with it this time.  Apparently the flywheel was cracked and required
> replacing at the time of the clutch replacement. This time it came to
> closer to £1500 because of the flywheel, but again the brakes all
> round needed replacing and to make matters worse the discs all round
> needed replacing too this time.

Disc replacement at about 44K isn't uncommon with BMW. They may use a
particular pad/disc combination that works very well but doesn't last as
long as some. I'd say pads lasting 22K or so is good for a driving school
car.

-- 
*If at first you don't succeed, try management *

    Dave Plowman     dave@davesound.co.uk     London SW 12

The Legend Returns wrote:
> "Brimstone"  wrote in message
> news:na-dnUjp3IXxHhbVnZ2dnUVZ8gOdnZ2d@bt.com...
>> The Legend Returns wrote:
>>> "Brimstone"  wrote in message
>>> news:jfWdnXzSaoQ_6xbVnZ2dnUVZ8sjinZ2d@bt.com...
>>>> The Legend Returns wrote:
>>>>> "Mike P"  wrote in message
>>>>> news:6f0ebsF99ggaU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hint. It's a good idea to have a clue before criticising others.
>>>
>>> Ah, a pedant surfaces.
>>>
>> Only someone incredibly cretinous uses a self-aggrandising screen
>> name, insists on criticising others and then get his knickers in a
>> twist when his own ignorance and stupidity is pointed out.
>>
>> Statement of Fact: That's you.
>
> <SIGH>
>
> In your haste to berate me, it's you who has ended up looking like a
> Muppet. You're now grasping at straws and demonstrating to this
> FORUM, you posses the IQ of a daffodil.
>

Oh dear, how sad.

I really can't remember the last time anyone put so much effort into making 
himself appear so ignorant and stupid.

You may have the last word as you seem to want that above all else.

>"Freddy-the-frog"  wrote in message 
>news:9abefd39-f147-49b4-b209-0ae47ca276d9@j33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
<snip>
>It had it's first clutch replacement at 22K miles - which some might
>say is probably acceptable for a driving instruction vehicle.
>However, all our other Mini's went well beyond this mileage and never
>had a clutch replacement.  Other Driving Instructors with Mini's have
>mentioned getting up to 80-90K miles before a clutch replacement is
>required.  The clutch cost around £800 to replace and at the same time
>the brakes all needed replacing for around £300.
>
>Recently at 44K miles the clutch has gone again and taken the flywheel
>with it this time.  Apparently the flywheel was cracked and required
>replacing at the time of the clutch replacement. This time it came to
>closer to £1500 because of the flywheel, but again the brakes all
>round needed replacing and to make matters worse the discs all round
>needed replacing too this time.

I'm no expert on minis (sorry, MINI's) or instruction cars, but.... if your 
other cars have managed to get a clutch to last a lot longer then there may 
be something afoot. I'd certainly expect a car operated by learners to get 
through a clutch quicker than normal, but 22k seems a bit extreme. My Passat 
is on 120k with the original... To then go again the same amount of miles 
after.... How come the flywheel cost you to replace? Wouldn't expect that to 
be a "wear and tear" item. I'd at least expect a contribution from the 
dealer, especially if they are sponsoring you.

You mention the dual controls - is it possible there was some bad adjustment 
in their fitting so that effectively the clutch is slightly pressed the 
whole time? This would lead to a lot more slip and wear it out... I remember 
reading a (very old) "maintenance manual" my dad had that said not to drive 
with your foot lightly resting on the clutch pedal for this very reason. I 
know you said he's an approved fitter, but everyone makes mistakes. If it 
was a simple case of poor quality parts on the D version, other people would 
suffer similarly. Certainly Parkers (ok, not the pinnacle of knowledge but a 
good yardstick) don't mention anything: 
http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/mini/hatchback-2006.aspx?model=1543&page=4.

As for the brakes - 44K not so bad for these, especially for a town-car.

James

Thanks for your reply.

I will certainly look into the flywheel being covered under warranty
because I agree that it should not be a wear and tear issue.

... How come the flywheel cost you to replace? Wouldn't expect that to
> be a "wear and tear" item. I'd at least expect a contribution from the
> dealer, especially if they are sponsoring you.

> You mention the dual controls - is it possible there was some bad adjustment
> in their fitting so that effectively the clutch is slightly pressed the
> whole time? This would lead to a lot more slip and wear it out... I remember
> reading a (very old) "maintenance manual" my dad had that said not to drive
> with your foot lightly resting on the clutch pedal for this very reason.

I am not sure how I can check the if the clutch is slightly depressed
but I will look.  We cannot hear it slipping
>
> As for the brakes - 44K not so bad for these, especially for a town-car.

Fair point for the brakes.

I now have a list of all the work carried out on this car from new and
intend to write to Mini Head Office- not sure of the address though?

"Brimstone"  wrote in message 
news:jfWdnXzSaoQ_6xbVnZ2dnUVZ8sjinZ2d@bt.com...

>> Has everyone in this forum forgotten how to trim postings?
>>
> What forum?
>
> Just in case you hadn't noticed, (which you obviously haven't) this is a 
> Usenet newsgroup, not a forum.
>
> Hint. It's a good idea to have a clue before criticising others.

Neatly sidestepping the point (about trimming).

A newsgroup IS a type of forum.

Hamster wrote:
> "Brimstone"  wrote in message
> news:jfWdnXzSaoQ_6xbVnZ2dnUVZ8sjinZ2d@bt.com...
>
>>> Has everyone in this forum forgotten how to trim postings?
>>>
>> What forum?
>>
>> Just in case you hadn't noticed, (which you obviously haven't) this
>> is a Usenet newsgroup, not a forum.
>>
>> Hint. It's a good idea to have a clue before criticising others.
>
> Neatly sidestepping the point (about trimming).

Since this was my first post in this sub-thread I'm not sidestepping 
anything.

> A newsgroup IS a type of forum.

The distinction might be sufficiently subtle to be lost on you, but it 
exits.

"Brimstone"  wrote in message 
news:K9qdnSOwPdHqvg_VnZ2dnUVZ8qPinZ2d@bt.com...
>>> Just in case you hadn't noticed, (which you obviously haven't) this
>>> is a Usenet newsgroup, not a forum.
>>>
>>> Hint. It's a good idea to have a clue before criticising others.
>>
>> Neatly sidestepping the point (about trimming).
>
> Since this was my first post in this sub-thread I'm not sidestepping 
> anything.

Yes you are.

>
>> A newsgroup IS a type of forum.
>
> The distinction might be sufficiently subtle to be lost on you, but it 
> exits.

It might, but it isn't.