I'm looking to buy my 4 yr old daughter a new bike.  It needs to have
16" wheels and not be too pink & girly as we want to pass it on to my
son as well.

From a look on the net & in my local bike shop the Dawes Blowfish
looks like a decent bet.  I don't know much about Dawes as a brand -
are they well put together?  Given that we want it to last both kids
I'm wondering if it's a good buy or if I'd be better off going for
something like a Ridgeback?

Any advice?

Michael

On 05/10/2008 21:01, michaeld121@hotmail.com wrote:
> I'm looking to buy my 4 yr old daughter a new bike.  It needs to have
> 16" wheels and not be too pink & girly as we want to pass it on to my
> son as well.
> 
> From a look on the net & in my local bike shop the Dawes Blowfish
> looks like a decent bet.  I don't know much about Dawes as a brand -
> are they well put together?  Given that we want it to last both kids
> I'm wondering if it's a good buy or if I'd be better off going for
> something like a Ridgeback?

I don't know about Dawes or Ridgeback for kids' bikes, but I do know 
that you can't go far wrong with an Islabikes:
http://www.islabikes.com/

My son had a CNOC16 for his 4th birthday.  Despite it being black, my 
daughter decided that it was even better than her pink Puky (we tried to 
persuade her of that before buying the Puky, but her first bike /had/ to 
be pink).  She'll be getting a large Beinn 20 in February for her 7th 
birthday (at which point I'll have a Baby Born Puky Z2 for sale).

-- 
Danny Colyer  <http://www.redpedals.co.uk>
Reply address is valid, but that on my website is checked more often
"The plural of anecdote is not data" - Frank Kotsonis

wrote in message 
news:ff7273fe-651e-4442-bfd1-18d1dc907ef7@26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> I'm looking to buy my 4 yr old daughter a new bike.  It needs to have
> 16" wheels and not be too pink & girly as we want to pass it on to my
> son as well.
>
> From a look on the net & in my local bike shop the Dawes Blowfish
> looks like a decent bet.  I don't know much about Dawes as a brand -
> are they well put together?  Given that we want it to last both kids
> I'm wondering if it's a good buy or if I'd be better off going for
> something like a Ridgeback?
>
> Any advice?

Son, 10, has had a Dawes Ruction 20".
Its just been through its second school summer holidays, gets a lot of use.
Seems tough as old boots, done nothing to it bar brakes and a couple of 
tyres.

On Sun, 05 Oct 2008, Danny Colyer  wrote:
>  On 05/10/2008 21:01, michaeld121@hotmail.com wrote:
> > I'm looking to buy my 4 yr old daughter a new bike.  It needs to have
> > 16" wheels and not be too pink & girly as we want to pass it on to my
> > son as well.
> > 
> > From a look on the net & in my local bike shop the Dawes Blowfish
> > looks like a decent bet.  I don't know much about Dawes as a brand -
> > are they well put together?  Given that we want it to last both kids
> > I'm wondering if it's a good buy or if I'd be better off going for
> > something like a Ridgeback?
> 
>  I don't know about Dawes or Ridgeback for kids' bikes, but I do know 
>  that you can't go far wrong with an Islabikes:
>  http://www.islabikes.com/

If the budget stretches to it, I thoroughly recommend Islabikes too, 
even though it goes against the try-before-you-buy mantra.  My 
daughter is very happy with her Cnoc, and they were very helpful when 
I was buying (answered several lots of questions while I was 
dithering, then happily changed the order when I reversed my decision 
12 hours after placing it).

regards,   Ian SMith
-- 
  |\ /|      no .sig
  |o o|
  |/ \|

I also vote for an Islabikes bike. My daughter has a CNOC 14. It's a
very good bike.

They really are different -- they do their very best to make the best
kids bikes they can, where best means best for riding. They don't have
bazillions of gears and lousy, non-working suspension as many kids
bikes do.

-Myra

Myra in Cambridge wrote:
> I also vote for an Islabikes bike. My daughter has a CNOC 14. It's a
> very good bike.

When I was ordering a Luath 700 for my son, I mentioned in passing that
it was for his birthday. They asked when his birthday was, and said
they'd make sure he got it in time - and they did. I had left plenty of
time anyway, but it is nice to deal with people like that.

The only criticisms I have of his bike is that the mudguards aren't
quite as good as SKS - but there is nothing actually wrong with them -
and whilst the Sora brifters have reduced reach for braking, the swing
of the left hand lever is still a little to big for small hands to
change gear easily. He loves the bike, and has done several 100Km+
audaxes on it, the first just a couple of weeks after he got it on his
11th birthday. No complaints about any discomfort - he suffered back
ache on his MTB doing 50k rides.

I originally thought that buying this bike would be a reasonable
investment, as they are very easy to sell on afterwards at good prices
compared to other machines. It doesn't look like I'll be able to do that
- my wife likes it so much that she has said she wants it when my son
outgrows it!

On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 13:59:02 +0100, Matthew Haigh
 wrote:

>Myra in Cambridge wrote:
>> I also vote for an Islabikes bike. My daughter has a CNOC 14. It's a
>> very good bike.
>
>When I was ordering a Luath 700 for my son, I mentioned in passing that
>it was for his birthday. They asked when his birthday was, and said
>they'd make sure he got it in time - and they did. I had left plenty of
>time anyway, but it is nice to deal with people like that.
>
>The only criticisms I have of his bike is that the mudguards aren't
>quite as good as SKS - but there is nothing actually wrong with them -
>and whilst the Sora brifters have reduced reach for braking, the swing
>of the left hand lever is still a little to big for small hands to
>change gear easily. He loves the bike, and has done several 100Km+
>audaxes on it, the first just a couple of weeks after he got it on his
>11th birthday. No complaints about any discomfort - he suffered back
>ache on his MTB doing 50k rides.
>
>I originally thought that buying this bike would be a reasonable
>investment, as they are very easy to sell on afterwards at good prices
>compared to other machines. It doesn't look like I'll be able to do that
>- my wife likes it so much that she has said she wants it when my son
>outgrows it!

I have serious concerns about the gear hangers on Islabikes,
especially those with double or triple chainrings.  (The Beinn 26 now
comes with a single chainring, so the only bikes in the range with a
multiple chainring is the Luath 700 and the new Creig 26).

Children, almost invariably don't use their gears correctly, or it
takes them a lang time to learn to use them.  They will often change
multiple gears at once.  This has led to three serious failures on
three different models of Islabikes, and 8 less serious failures.  The
eight less serious failures have been bent gear hangers, which, at
worst, have limited the range of gears available for use until the
hanger can be replaced.  The four serious failures have been the gear
mech going into the rear spokes, causing the hanger to break, and in
three cases causing irrepairable damage to the rear mech.  On the
occasion when the rear mech was not damaged I was able to replace the
hanger on the roadside - I always carry spare hangers when taking
children on rides.  On the three other occasions the fix has been to
break the chain, remove the rear mech and put the bike into a single
gear - usually fairly low.

There's a photo here of a child on a Luath 700 in gear 1 front and
gear 4 rear.
www.britishschoolofcycling.com/lags/family/freewheel.htm

There's a photo of one of the damaged rear mechs here:
http://www.johnballcycling.org.uk/photos/misc/rearmech

I would like to add that I have in my bike pool:
1 x trailerbike
1 x Cnoc 16
6 x Beinn 20
6 x Beinn 24
6 x Beinn 26
2 x Luath 700 bikes, and together they have travelled over 30,000
miles.  In those 30,000 miles the only serious failures have been the
three mentioned above, and a broken seat post clamp (possibly
overtightened by me).  No buckled wheels, no broken spokes, no brake
failures (including no noodle clip failures), or anything else worse
than a flat tyre or chain coming off.

18 of the 22 bikes have not suffered any serious failure.  The cost of
a replacement rear mech is £16.20, the cost of a relacement hanger is
£2, and the cost of a replacement seat post clamp is £4.

The total cost of non-routine repairs has been under £75 over three
years, excluding my time.  That comes to an average of £3.50 per bike.

I hope that puts a bit of perspective into my concerns over the gear
hangers.

Thanks for that analysis, Tom. In your opinion, what could Islabikes
do to make this failure less likely, other than what they already do,
which is have just one chainring on almost all their models?

-Myra

Tom Crispin wrote:

> 18 of the 22 bikes have not suffered any serious failure.  The cost of
> a replacement rear mech is £16.20, the cost of a relacement hanger is
> £2, and the cost of a replacement seat post clamp is £4.

Actually, that reminds me that I must get a couple of hangers - do you
source yours from Islabikes? I must admit that I was expecting the more
usual bike shop price of a tenner.

The problem with the hanger on my son's bike is due to him having
"clipless moments", which always saw him topple over onto the expensive
side! They seem to have stopped now (touch wood!).

michaeld121@hotmail.com wrote:
> 
> I'm looking to buy my 4 yr old daughter a new bike.  It needs to have
> 16" wheels and not be too pink & girly as we want to pass it on to my
> son as well.
> 
> From a look on the net & in my local bike shop the Dawes Blowfish
> looks like a decent bet.  I don't know much about Dawes as a brand -
> are they well put together?  Given that we want it to last both kids
> I'm wondering if it's a good buy or if I'd be better off going for
> something like a Ridgeback?
> 
> Any advice?
> 
> Michael

You won't get much better than Islabikes.

Sam Salt

On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 01:50:26 -0700 (PDT), Myra in Cambridge
 wrote:

>Thanks for that analysis, Tom. In your opinion, what could Islabikes
>do to make this failure less likely, other than what they already do,
>which is have just one chainring on almost all their models?

A bigger clearence between the wheel and deraileur, and a slightly
stronger hanger.  But maybe there's something I don't know.

On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 10:22:51 +0100, Matthew Haigh
 wrote:

>Tom Crispin wrote:
>
>> 18 of the 22 bikes have not suffered any serious failure.  The cost of
>> a replacement rear mech is £16.20, the cost of a relacement hanger is
>> £2, and the cost of a replacement seat post clamp is £4.
>
>Actually, that reminds me that I must get a couple of hangers - do you
>source yours from Islabikes? I must admit that I was expecting the more
>usual bike shop price of a tenner.
>
>The problem with the hanger on my son's bike is due to him having
>"clipless moments", which always saw him topple over onto the expensive
>side! They seem to have stopped now (touch wood!).

I source them from Islabikes.  As a school I do get a discount and we
can recalim the VAT, so the retail cost will certainly be more, but
unlikely as much as a tenner.

Tom Crispin wrote:

> I source them from Islabikes.  As a school I do get a discount and we
> can recalim the VAT, so the retail cost will certainly be more, but
> unlikely as much as a tenner.

Ta. I've been meaning to give them a call, I just wondered if you'd
found an alternative source.

Tom Crispin wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 01:50:26 -0700 (PDT), Myra in Cambridge
>  wrote:
> 
>> Thanks for that analysis, Tom. In your opinion, what could Islabikes
>> do to make this failure less likely, other than what they already do,
>> which is have just one chainring on almost all their models?
> 
> A bigger clearence between the wheel and deraileur, and a slightly
> stronger hanger.  But maybe there's something I don't know.

if you start to go this way then it becomes expensive as the wheel is 
non-standard.  Best migth be to put a full wheel spoke cover on (make 
one yourself out of some thin acrylic sheet), zip-tie to a few spokes

Sam Salt wrote:
>
> You won't get much better than Islabikes.
>
> Sam Salt

Many thanks to everyone - it's a pretty clear response re: Islabikes.
Despite doing a fair bit of research - I'd managed to miss out on
them.  From looking on here & other places everyone seems to talk
about them in pretty glowing terms.

The CNOC 16 looks spot on and it's only £5 more than the Dawes (the
price difference is a lot more apparent with the larger bikes).

Thanks,

Michael

On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 10:22:51 +0100, Matthew Haigh
 wrote:

>The problem with the hanger on my son's bike is due to him having
>"clipless moments", which always saw him topple over onto the expensive
>side! They seem to have stopped now (touch wood!).

I have wondered if the problem I have with gear hangers is my storage
facility.

I have 21 bikes in a secure shed.  The Rothan, trailerbike and 6 Beinn
20s hang from the ceiling, but the 6 Beinn 24s, 6 Beinn 26s and 2
Luath 700s lean against one another with the front of one facing the
rear of the next.  It is a very compact set up.  I can move the pedals
so they won't interfere with the bike on either side, but the bikes do
rest on the deraileur, and this may cause the butter soft hanger metal
to deform.

I am always very careful to explain to children that when they lay
their bikes down to do so chain side up so as not to damage the
hanger, and generally they are very good about this.  Perhaps I should
be showing the same level of care when I store the bikes.

On Oct 6, 8:07 am, Ian Smith  wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Oct 2008, Danny Colyer  wrote:
> >  On 05/10/2008 21:01, michaeld...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > I'm looking to buy my 4 yr old daughter a new bike.  It needs to have
> > > 16" wheels and not be too pink & girly as we want to pass it on to my
> > > son as well.
>
> > > From a look on the net & in my local bike shop the Dawes Blowfish
> > > looks like a decent bet.  I don't know much about Dawes as a brand -
> > > are they well put together?  Given that we want it to last both kids
> > > I'm wondering if it's a good buy or if I'd be better off going for
> > > something like a Ridgeback?
>
> >  I don't know about Dawes or Ridgeback for kids' bikes, but I do know
> >  that you can't go far wrong with an Islabikes:
> >  http://www.islabikes.com/
>
> If the budget stretches to it, I thoroughly recommend Islabikes too,

and if it doesn't, I have been impressed with Decathlon's range of
kids bikes if you have one near enough

best wishes
james

I have bought  a Dahon Speed TR 07, with 35% discount. which
presumably represent good value? I previously bought  a fantastically
lovable  20" wheel  folding bike for £10 from my local refuse tip ,
which is what got me interested in them.

 Perhaps  someone will point me in the right direction for getting
suitable ( affordable ;-) )  luggage to attach to the Dahons racks ?
I will be to taking the Dahon to work in the car for lunchtime
shopping/ exercise trips  and might possibly need to commute via the
train for a while. Maybe I will also use it for camping touring  and
hence want to be able to carry a tent/ sleeping bag and all the
paraphernalia. I was considering  a full size touring bike for the
latter of these reasons, but now  I've ended up with this ;-)

I am hopeful that the 'folding' and 'touring' aspects of the design
will adequately  suit my separate needs  for a commuter and a tourer.
I've found the  single geared  £10 bargain to be a very relaxed ride
over short to medium distances, but just  a little limited on top
speed. I'll keep you all posted ;-)

Simon

On Oct 5, 8:14 am, mr p  wrote:
>  I have bought  a Dahon Speed TR 07, with 35% discount. which
> presumably represent good value? I previously bought  a fantastically
> lovable  20" wheel  folding bike for £10 from my local refuse tip ,
> which is what got me interested in them.
>
>  Perhaps  someone will point me in the right direction for getting
> suitable ( affordable ;-) )  luggage to attach to the Dahons racks ?
> I will be to taking the Dahon to work in the car for lunchtime
> shopping/ exercise trips  and might possibly need to commute via the
> train for a while. Maybe I will also use it for camping touring  and
> hence want to be able to carry a tent/ sleeping bag and all the
> paraphernalia. I was considering  a full size touring bike for the
> latter of these reasons, but now  I've ended up with this ;-)
>
> I am hopeful that the 'folding' and 'touring' aspects of the design
> will adequately  suit my separate needs  for a commuter and a tourer.
> I've found the  single geared  £10 bargain to be a very relaxed ride
> over short to medium distances, but just  a little limited on top
> speed. I'll keep you all posted ;-)
>
> Simon

I have had dahon folders for years. I suspect you would find it  a bit
unstable with a full camping load on , but it depends on how light you
can travel. It is a good idea to load it up with a known weight of
potatoes or something and ride around to get the feel.I have been on a
couple of band b tours on the original dahon, which is not a great
performer. that took a large rack pack by Altura (orkney) quite
nicely, and it's own bag.
The modern one takes a full rack pack or throw-over saddle bag I got
from lidl which is like the one argos sell: a pair of side bags held
together by the top bag. You have to keep the side bags very short so
that they do not hit the ground if you ahve the dahon frame as you
do.Or you could mount the throw over bag on something placed on the
rack.I would experiment with cheap things first to see what you really
want.If you use side bags at all you may anticipate problems unless
you get a higher frame that will interfere with folding.
There is a picture of a jetstream xp with a normal (tall) frame on it
in the bike porn thread.

TerryJ

TerryJ wrote:

>On Oct 5, 8:14 am, mr p  wrote:
>>  I have bought  a Dahon Speed TR 07, with 35% discount. which
>> presumably represent good value? I previously bought  a fantastically
>> lovable  20" wheel  folding bike for £10 from my local refuse tip ,
>> which is what got me interested in them.
>>
>>  Perhaps  someone will point me in the right direction for getting
>> suitable ( affordable ;-) )  luggage to attach to the Dahons racks ?
>> I will be to taking the Dahon to work in the car for lunchtime
>> shopping/ exercise trips  and might possibly need to commute via the
>> train for a while. Maybe I will also use it for camping touring  and
>> hence want to be able to carry a tent/ sleeping bag and all the
>> paraphernalia. I was considering  a full size touring bike for the
>> latter of these reasons, but now  I've ended up with this ;-)
>>
>> I am hopeful that the 'folding' and 'touring' aspects of the design
>> will adequately  suit my separate needs  for a commuter and a tourer.
>> I've found the  single geared  £10 bargain to be a very relaxed ride
>> over short to medium distances, but just  a little limited on top
>> speed. I'll keep you all posted ;-)
>>
>> Simon
>
>I have had dahon folders for years. I suspect you would find it  a bit
>unstable with a full camping load on , but it depends on how light you
>can travel. It is a good idea to load it up with a known weight of
>potatoes or something and ride around to get the feel.I have been on a
>couple of band b tours on the original dahon, which is not a great
>performer. that took a large rack pack by Altura (orkney) quite
>nicely, and it's own bag.

I took a Birdy on the train to do a little tour using a Carry Freedom
City folding trailer to do the lugging of the weight. which included
hillwalking boots and "stuff". On second thoughts perhaps having to
use just small panners would be a good idea. :-)

http://www.carryfreedom.com/city.html

More budget orientated trailers are available (Edinburgh Bicycle
Co-Op) but they may involve some compromise with respect to the
smaller wheels of the Dahon.

http://www.edinburghbicycle.com/ebwPNLqrymode.a4p?f_ProductID=6176
-- 
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

On Oct 6, 11:48 am, TerryJ  wrote:
> On Oct 5, 8:14 am, mr p  wrote:
>
>
>
> >  I have bought  aDahonSpeed TR 07, with 35% discount. which
> > presumably represent good value? I previously bought  a fantastically
> > lovable  20" wheel  folding bike for £10 from my local refuse tip> > which is what got me interested in them.
>
> >  Perhaps  someone will point me in the right direction for getting
> > suitable ( affordable ;-) )  luggage to attach to the Dahons racks ?
> > I will be to taking theDahonto work in the car for lunchtime
> > shopping/ exercise trips  and might possibly need to commute via the
> > train for a while. Maybe I will also use it for camping touring  and
> > hence want to be able to carry a tent/ sleeping bag and all the
> > paraphernalia. I was considering  a full size touring bike for the
> > latter of these reasons, but now  I've ended up with this ;-)
>
> > I am hopeful that the 'folding' and 'touring' aspects of the design
> > will adequately  suit my separate needs  for a commuter and a tourer.
> > I've found the  single geared  £10 bargain to be a very relaxed ride
> > over short to medium distances, but just  a little limited on top
> > speed. I'll keep you all posted ;-)
>
> > Simon
>
> I have haddahonfolders for years. I suspect you would find it  a bit

< post snipped >

Thanks for the info. the Dahon arrived today and I have been out
riding it !
The first thing I had to do was go out shopping for a thin 15mm
spanner to bolt the pedals on, but giving a normal spanner attention
with an angle grinder proved easier.. problem solved!
As I expected from JE James, the bike appeared to have been set up
properly ( well at least the gears work perfectly !) I went on a 30
mile round trip in the New Forest, but I found it stangly  hard going
I also had some vibrating  noises coming from the the front wheel area
intermitantly, I was perplexed, I even removed the front mudgaurd to
rule this out as the source of the noise. Later  when  I got around to
checking the tyre pressures, I found that the front tyre was
underinflated, which was a suprise.. I  have now road tested the bike
again and the noise has apparently gone, and it's a lot easier to
pedal too !

Anyway. all seems well, very pleased, so far, except to things really.
The pump handle in the seat post seems to want to keep dropping down
when ever the bike has been folded and the seat post has been used as
a stand. Has anyone else found this ? . Perhaps the spring inside the
pump needs stretching a bit, but it seems like a bit of a weak design
TBH, it could be very anoying this ! One other thing, the bike seems
to want to steer to one side when I ride no handed.. ( eg, when
fiddling with my Ipod or what ever.. ) Is this expected on  a bike
like this ? I wander if the wheels are not aligned very well, does the
long cross tube cause this?

Simon

mr p wrote:

> One other thing, the bike seems
> to want to steer to one side when I ride no handed.. ( eg, when
> fiddling with my Ipod or what ever.. ) Is this expected on  a bike
> like this ? I wander if the wheels are not aligned very well, does the
> long cross tube cause this?

With any bike that steers to one side no-handed, it could be caused by 
something serious like bent forks, or something trivial like a brake cable 
housing being too short on one side.

~PB

On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 14:22:10 -0700 (PDT)
mr p  wrote:

> One other thing, the bike seems
> to want to steer to one side when I ride no handed.. ( eg, when
> fiddling with my Ipod or what ever.. ) Is this expected on  a bike
> like this ? I wander if the wheels are not aligned very well, does the
> long cross tube cause this?
> 
If it's not just running down the camber, and you're sitting on it
straight:
Check the wheels are pushed right up in the dropouts, and that
they're centred in this position.
Check that the hinge is closing flush.
Prop the bike up vertically, straighten the front wheel and sight along
both sides from front wheel to rear wheel to make sure they're in the
same plane.
Check that the headset moves freely without slack or notchiness, and
that there isn't a trapped cable pulling the forks around.

> Check that the headset moves freely without slack or notchiness, and
> that there isn't a trapped cable pulling the forks around.
> 
> 



That's a good list. Afetr unfolding sometimes you have to shove things 
around a bit.
The front steering can feel a bit light until you get used to it.

Only when they are perfectly set up and you are used to it can you feel 
fairly stable on a small wheel folder. I cannot ride hands-off on a 
normal bike.You won't be putting your jacket on while going over the col 
on the dahon.But I have felt perfectly happy after a bit of practice. In 
fact the wheelbase length is pretty similar to my other bikes and when 
up to speed the twitchiness is not a problem.

TerryJ

Pete Biggs wrote:
With any bike that steers to one side no-handed, it could be caused by
> something serious like bent forks, or something trivial like a brake cable 
> housing being too short on one side.

I have a similar bike, a Dahon Impulse P21, on which a frequent problem 
after it has been folded is that the brake cable gets caught under the 
front fork and thus artifically shortened. It's not always easy to see. 
Before you do anything else make sure that both brake cables are free.

EFR
Ile de France

On Oct 11, 12:13 pm, Artemisia  wrote:
> Pete Biggs wrote:
>
> With any bike that steers to one side no-handed, it could be caused by
>
> > something serious like bent forks, or something trivial like a brake cable
> > housing being too short on one side.
>
> I have a similar bike, aDahonImpulse P21, on which a frequent problem
> after it has been folded is that the brake cable gets caught under the
> front fork and thus artifically shortened. It's not always easy to see.
> Before you do anything else make sure that both brake cables are free.


hmm can't see any prolems with the cables, however the rear wheel was
not fully seated in the frame, so I sorted that out.
Seems like the annoying noise I mentioned was coming from the
reflector in the front wheel, so I removed this for now. I might try
some hot glue to stop it vibrating though.
 I found a forum that sugests using electical tape over the tabs on
the pump handle, which does seem to hold it in place ok.. apparently
Dahon have re-designed this :(

Cheers !

On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 11:28:02 -0700 (PDT)
mr p  wrote:

> Seems like the annoying noise I mentioned was coming from the
> reflector in the front wheel, so I removed this for now. I might try
> some hot glue to stop it vibrating though.
>  
As long as the reflector is clipped to the right spoke it should fit
firmly enough that it doesn't rattle.  Check the angle of the groove
that engages with the spoke and attach it to a spoke that's at a
similar angle, then push it firmly towards the rim - it should be wedged
snugly between three spokes and stay there even without the little
twiddly plastic/metal retaining clip.