Does anybody here have personal experience of using a quill stem with a 
threadless steerer? I'm aware of a trick that Sheldon Brown used in 
which the pressure on the top bearings is maintained by some kind of 
pinch collar (seatpost clamp?), eliminating the cap at the top and the 
spacers on the steerer. I'd assume that this leaves you with a steerer 
in which you're free to insert a quill stem, rather than clamping a 
new-style stem to the steerer. Can one get steerers in the appropriate 
diameter? Are there any non-obvious pitfalls? Am I being dumb in some 
other way?

I don't currently have any threadless forks to test this with. The 
reason I ask is that I see a time in the future when it gets 
increasingly hard to buy bicycles with threaded forks, and want to 
continue using the (clearly superior) quill stem technology.

Cheers,
Richard

On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 15:52:47 +0100, Richard Thrippleton wrote:

> Does anybody here have personal experience of using a quill stem with a 
> threadless steerer? I'm aware of a trick that Sheldon Brown used in 
> which the pressure on the top bearings is maintained by some kind of 
> pinch collar (seatpost clamp?), eliminating the cap at the top and the 
> spacers on the steerer. I'd assume that this leaves you with a steerer 
> in which you're free to insert a quill stem, rather than clamping a 
> new-style stem to the steerer. Can one get steerers in the appropriate 
> diameter? Are there any non-obvious pitfalls? Am I being dumb in some 
> other way?
> 
> I don't currently have any threadless forks to test this with. The 
> reason I ask is that I see a time in the future when it gets 
> increasingly hard to buy bicycles with threaded forks, and want to 
> continue using the (clearly superior) quill stem technology.
> 

a) threaded forks are unlikely to be anything but easily available; and

b) it's all just metal - pinch clamps are easily made, forks are easily
threaded.

Don't worry.

"Richard Thrippleton"  wrote in message 
news:gbqq3v$mfi$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk...

> I don't currently have any threadless forks to test this with. The reason 
> I ask is that I see a time in the future when it gets increasingly hard to 
> buy bicycles with threaded forks, and want to continue using the (clearly 
> superior) quill stem technology.

FSVO "clearly superior" - I much prefer threadless ones.

cheers,
clive

In the referenced article, Richard Thrippleton  writes:

...

>I don't currently have any threadless forks to test this with. The 
>reason I ask is that I see a time in the future when it gets 
>increasingly hard to buy bicycles with threaded forks, and want to 
>continue using the (clearly superior) quill stem technology.
                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Alternative opinions are available.  See:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/threadless-headset.html

I too prefer quill stem technology.  Mainly because I think modern
stems fitted to threadless forks are ugly when compared to quill
stems.  Especially on a lightweight road bike.  But then I'm an old
fart.  What do I know?
-- 
Dennis Davis, BUCS, University of Bath, Bath, BA2 7AY, UK
D.H.Davis@bath.ac.uk

ccsdhd@bath.ac.uk (Dennis Davis) writes:

> I too prefer quill stem technology.  Mainly because I think modern
> stems fitted to threadless forks are ugly when compared to quill
> stems.  Especially on a lightweight road bike.  

Exactly. Frankenstein's neck in the middle of your handlebars.

Brendan
-- 
Brendan Halpin,  Department of Sociology,  University of Limerick,  Ireland
Tel: w +353-61-213147 f +353-61-202569 h +353-61-338562; Room F2-025 x 3147
mailto:brendan.halpin@ul.ie  http://www.ul.ie/sociology/brendan.halpin.html

On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 15:52:47 +0100
Richard Thrippleton  wrote:

> I don't currently have any threadless forks to test this with. The 
> reason I ask is that I see a time in the future when it gets 
> increasingly hard to buy bicycles with threaded forks,

I expect you'll still be able to find a machinist to cut a thread on a
threadless fork.  Or maybe all the imperial screwcutters will be gone
too.

> and want to 
> continue using the (clearly superior) quill stem technology.
> 
Why do you think quill stems are superior?  Threadless headsets are easy
to work on with only an allen key, the stems are stiff and light and
don't seize in place, you never have problems with the thread on the
forks ...

Richard Thrippleton wrote:
> Does anybody here have personal experience of using a quill stem with
> a threadless steerer? I'm aware of a trick that Sheldon Brown used in
> which the pressure on the top bearings is maintained by some kind of
> pinch collar (seatpost clamp?), eliminating the cap at the top and the
> spacers on the steerer. I'd assume that this leaves you with a steerer
> in which you're free to insert a quill stem, rather than clamping a
> new-style stem to the steerer. Can one get steerers in the appropriate
> diameter?

You can with 1" steel ones.  But who knows what's going to be available in 
future.  1 1/8" and alloy and carbon steerers seem to be taking over.

> Are there any non-obvious pitfalls? Am I being dumb in some
> other way?

It just seems unnecessary to me.

> I don't currently have any threadless forks to test this with. The
> reason I ask is that I see a time in the future when it gets
> increasingly hard to buy bicycles with threaded forks, and want to
> continue using the (clearly superior) quill stem technology.

It's not that clear.  Both have their pros and cons.

If one of the bike world's greatest old farts - Jobst Brandt - can prefer 
the threadless system, maybe you could too.

~PB

_ wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 15:52:47 +0100, Richard Thrippleton wrote:
> 
>> Does anybody here have personal experience of using a quill stem with a 
>> threadless steerer? I'm aware of a trick that Sheldon Brown used in 
>> which the pressure on the top bearings is maintained by some kind of 
>> pinch collar (seatpost clamp?), eliminating the cap at the top and the 
>> spacers on the steerer. I'd assume that this leaves you with a steerer 
>> in which you're free to insert a quill stem, rather than clamping a 
>> new-style stem to the steerer. Can one get steerers in the appropriate 
>> diameter? Are there any non-obvious pitfalls? Am I being dumb in some 
>> other way?
>>
>> I don't currently have any threadless forks to test this with. The 
>> reason I ask is that I see a time in the future when it gets 
>> increasingly hard to buy bicycles with threaded forks, and want to 
>> continue using the (clearly superior) quill stem technology.
>>
> 
> a) threaded forks are unlikely to be anything but easily available; and
That's good to know, thanks :-). Maybe I got scaremongered by shop 
mechanics.

Cheers,
Richard

Rob Morley wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 15:52:47 +0100
> Richard Thrippleton  wrote:
> 
>> I don't currently have any threadless forks to test this with. The 
>> reason I ask is that I see a time in the future when it gets 
>> increasingly hard to buy bicycles with threaded forks,
> 
> I expect you'll still be able to find a machinist to cut a thread on a
> threadless fork.  Or maybe all the imperial screwcutters will be gone
> too.
> 
>> and want to 
>> continue using the (clearly superior) quill stem technology.
>>
> Why do you think quill stems are superior?  Threadless headsets are easy
> to work on with only an allen key, the stems are stiff and light and
> don't seize in place, you never have problems with the thread on the
> forks ...
Well, I already own the right kind of spanners, and though cumbersome, I 
tend not to need to take apart or tighten my headset that much. I've not 
had the other problems you describe, and I'm not a professional racer so 
don't care about tiny weight differences.

The main issue is adjustability; I don't want to have to buy spacers and 
a new set of forks each time I feel like having higher or lower 
handlebars. I recently started having ergonomic problems that had me 
needing to have a much more upright riding posture. Solving this would 
have been very costly had I not had a quill stem.

Richard

Richard Thrippleton wrote:

> The main issue is adjustability; I don't want to have to buy spacers
> and a new set of forks each time I feel like having higher or lower
> handlebars.

You don't need to do that.  Although it is slower to do so than with a quill 
stem, you can adjust the height at any time by moving the spacers.  Spacers 
can be placed above as well as below the stem.  Just make sure the steerer 
is long enough to start with.

~PB

On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 16:49:41 +0100
Richard Thrippleton  wrote:

> The main issue is adjustability; I don't want to have to buy spacers
> and a new set of forks each time I feel like having higher or lower 
> handlebars. I recently started having ergonomic problems that had me 
> needing to have a much more upright riding posture. Solving this
> would have been very costly had I not had a quill stem.
> 
Why?  With a flip-flop stem and an inch or so of spacers you can get as
much adjustment as with a regular quill stem, if you need more height
than that affords just fit an A'Head extender.

On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 15:11:14 GMT
ccsdhd@bath.ac.uk (Dennis Davis) wrote:

> I too prefer quill stem technology.  Mainly because I think modern
> stems fitted to threadless forks are ugly when compared to quill
> stems.  Especially on a lightweight road bike.  But then I'm an old
> fart.  What do I know?

There are some pretty sleek threadless stems available, like the
Thomson Elite.  By their nature they're always going to look chunkier
than a 7/8" quill stem, and I'm in no hurry to replace the old Cinelli
kit on my road bike.  The biggest problem that I see is there's no
gradual upgrade path - if at some point you can't get a threaded
headset or fork you need to replace both, you can use a threadless stem
with an adapter on threaded forks, but that has most of the
disadvantages of both systems and few of the advantages.

On 29/09/2008 16:49, Richard Thrippleton said,

> The main issue is adjustability; I don't want to have to buy spacers and 
> a new set of forks each time I feel like having higher or lower 
> handlebars. 

You've just hit one one of the advantages of threadless forks over quill 
  - changing the bar position is very, very easy with threadless.  Why 
do you think you need to buy new forks and spacers just to raise or 
lower the bars?  You can just rearrange the spacers that are already 
there.  If that doesn't give you enough adjustment, you can flip the 
stem over, or pop in a new stem.

-- 
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 18:37:13 +0100
Paul Boyd  wrote:

> You've just hit one one of the advantages of threadless forks over
> quill 
>   - changing the bar position is very, very easy with threadless.
> 
Not as easy as it is with a quill stem (assuming it hasn't seized).

On 29/09/2008 18:51, Rob Morley said,

> Not as easy as it is with a quill stem (assuming it hasn't seized).

How about if you decide you want a little bit more reach? :-)

-- 
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 19:10:45 +0100
Paul Boyd  wrote:

> On 29/09/2008 18:51, Rob Morley said,
> 
> > Not as easy as it is with a quill stem (assuming it hasn't seized).
> 
> How about if you decide you want a little bit more reach? :-)
> 
You need to change the stem either way.  With a quill stem you don't
need to adjust the headset on reassembly.

Pete Biggs wrote:
> Richard Thrippleton wrote:
> 
>> The main issue is adjustability; I don't want to have to buy
>> spacers and a new set of forks each time I feel like having higher
>> or lower handlebars.
> 
> You don't need to do that.  Although it is slower to do so than with
> a quill stem, you can adjust the height at any time by moving the
> spacers.  Spacers can be placed above as well as below the stem.
> Just make sure the steerer is long enough to start with.
Would this entail obtaining a steerer separately and cutting it to 
length, rather than being able to work with the steerer that came with a 
shop bike? All the threadless equipped bikes I've seen in the wild have 
had steerers cut short with the stem at the highest possible height 
being a tiny distance away from the top of the head tube.

Richard

"Richard Thrippleton"  wrote in message 
news:gbr83s$1de$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk...

> All the threadless equipped bikes I've seen in the wild have had steerers 
> cut short with the stem at the highest possible height being a tiny 
> distance away from the top of the head tube.

You don't need to do that. Good bike shops will leave the steerer uncut. 
Obviously if it is cut short, you've got no room to play - but the answer 
there is to not buy such a thing.

cheers,
clive

On Sep 29, 4:03 pm, _ 
wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 15:52:47 퍝, Richard Thrippleton wrote:
> > Does anybody here have personal experience of using a quill stem with a
> > threadless steerer? I'm aware of a trick that Sheldon Brown used in
> > which the pressure on the top bearings is maintained by some kind of
> > pinch collar (seatpost clamp?), eliminating the cap at the top and the
> > spacers on the steerer. I'd assume that this leaves you with a steerer
> > in which you're free to insert a quill stem, rather than clamping a
> > new-style stem to the steerer. Can one get steerers in the appropriate
> > diameter? Are there any non-obvious pitfalls? Am I being dumb in some
> > other way?
>
> > I don't currently have any threadless forks to test this with. The
> > reason I ask is that I see a time in the future when it gets
> > increasingly hard to buy bicycles with threaded forks, and want to
> > continue using the (clearly superior) quill stem technology.
>
> a) threaded forks are unlikely to be anything but easily available; and
>
> b) it's all just metal - pinch clamps are easily made, forks are easily
> threaded.
>
> Don't worry.

"_" is a paedophile.

Nuxx Bar wrote:
> 
> "_" is a paedophile.
True or false, it is hardly appropriate to alert me. A paedophile is no 
hostile moral hazard to me; as you can see by my posts in this thread, I 
have already unambiguously stated my intent to firmly thrust my quill 
into a very tight tube.

Regards,
Richard

On 29/09/2008 19:13, Rob Morley said,

> You need to change the stem either way.  With a quill stem you don't
> need to adjust the headset on reassembly.

Yebbut.... with a quill stem you have to dismantle the bars to slide it 
off.  With a threadless stem you don't :-)

Adjusting the headset is a non-issue.  You just tighten the centre bolt 
until there's no more play.  Granted, you don't need to do that with a 
quill stem.

-- 
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 22:04:22 +0100, Paul Boyd wrote:

> On 29/09/2008 19:13, Rob Morley said,
> 
>> You need to change the stem either way.  With a quill stem you don't
>> need to adjust the headset on reassembly.
> 
> Yebbut.... with a quill stem you have to dismantle the bars to slide it 
> off.  

Not all of them.

> With a threadless stem you don't :-)
> 
> Adjusting the headset is a non-issue.  You just tighten the centre bolt 
> until there's no more play.  Granted, you don't need to do that with a 
> quill stem.

Paul Boyd wrote:
> On 29/09/2008 19:13, Rob Morley said,
>
>> You need to change the stem either way.  With a quill stem you don't
>> need to adjust the headset on reassembly.
>
> Yebbut.... with a quill stem you have to dismantle the bars to slide
> it off.  With a threadless stem you don't :-)
>
> Adjusting the headset is a non-issue.  You just tighten the centre
> bolt until there's no more play.  Granted, you don't need to do that
> with a quill stem.

There are a few front-opening quill stems, or if you can get over the "ugly" 
thing, use an ahead stem with a quill converter.

There's no denying that it's easier to adjust a quill stem.  It's just a 
question of whether that's important to you.  It's not important enough for 
me to be put off threadless.

~PB

Richard Thrippleton wrote:
> Does anybody here have personal experience of using a quill stem with a
> threadless steerer? I'm aware of a trick that Sheldon Brown used in
> which the pressure on the top bearings is maintained by some kind of
> pinch collar (seatpost clamp?), eliminating the cap at the top and the
> spacers on the steerer. I'd assume that this leaves you with a steerer
> in which you're free to insert a quill stem, rather than clamping a
> new-style stem to the steerer.

I have personal experience of doing this. My Airnimal is set up this
way. There's a clamp at the top of the steerer to adjust the headset
tension, and into this a quill stem is inserted.

It works well to allow a small folded package. The usual way to get a
large distance between top of head tube and handlebars with threadless
steerers is to have a very long steerer tube and loads of spacers. The
solution I have means that I have  a failrly short steerer, and then a
long quill stem that comes apart from the steerer, so the whole
package can be folded smaller.

-Myra

Myra in Cambridge wrote:
> Richard Thrippleton wrote:
>> Does anybody here have personal experience of using a quill stem with a
>> threadless steerer? I'm aware of a trick that Sheldon Brown used in
>> which the pressure on the top bearings is maintained by some kind of
>> pinch collar (seatpost clamp?), eliminating the cap at the top and the
>> spacers on the steerer. I'd assume that this leaves you with a steerer
>> in which you're free to insert a quill stem, rather than clamping a
>> new-style stem to the steerer.
> 
> I have personal experience of doing this. My Airnimal is set up this
> way. There's a clamp at the top of the steerer to adjust the headset
> tension, and into this a quill stem is inserted.
Awesome! It's good to know that this can definitely work. Just to 
clarify further, what kind of clamp did you use? I don't remember what 
it was that Sheldon's trick used, and only assumed it was a separate 
seatpost clamp.

Cheers,
Richard

On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 18:25:35 +0100
Richard Thrippleton  wrote:

> Awesome! It's good to know that this can definitely work. Just to 
> clarify further, what kind of clamp did you use? I don't remember
> what it was that Sheldon's trick used, and only assumed it was a
> separate seatpost clamp.
> 
Sheldon did several bikes  that had both threadless and quill stems -
is that what you're thinking of?

I forgot the name of this clamp arrangement. I will try to remember to
go out to the shed tonight to see what it's called. It has two parts.
One is a clamp, about 4cm tall, looks like a threadless stem but
without the part that sticks forward and holds the handlebars.
Underneath this is another clamping widget that's alot narrower, less
than 1cm. What you do is you have the lower narrow clamp as loose as
it can go, then push the top clamp down onto it and tighten the top
clamp up. Then when you tighten the lower clamp it kind of expands (by
using angled surfaces to push against the clamp above it) and that
makes the headset more or less tight (tighten lower clamp to tighen
headset, loosen lower clamp to loosen headset).

You definitely need this double-clamp arrangement to be able to
properly adjust the headset tension. Just one clamp won't get the
headset tight enough.

Again, I'll try to remember to go to the shed to see what this
clamping arrangement is called.

-Myra

On Wed, 1 Oct 2008 01:49:01 -0700 (PDT)
Myra in Cambridge  wrote:

> You definitely need this double-clamp arrangement to be able to
> properly adjust the headset tension. Just one clamp won't get the
> headset tight enough.
> 
You can use a plain clamp (cutoff stem, seatpost clamp, whatever) and
preload the bearings with a length of studding right through the steerer
secured at each end by a nut and large washer.

Richard Thrippleton wrote:
> Does anybody here have personal experience of using a quill stem with a 
> threadless steerer? I'm aware of a trick that Sheldon Brown used in 
> which the pressure on the top bearings is maintained by some kind of 
> pinch collar (seatpost clamp?), eliminating the cap at the top and the 
> spacers on the steerer. I'd assume that this leaves you with a steerer 
> in which you're free to insert a quill stem, rather than clamping a 
> new-style stem to the steerer. Can one get steerers in the appropriate 
> diameter? Are there any non-obvious pitfalls? Am I being dumb in some 
> other way?
> 
> I don't currently have any threadless forks to test this with. The 
> reason I ask is that I see a time in the future when it gets 
> increasingly hard to buy bicycles with threaded forks, and want to 
> continue using the (clearly superior) quill stem technology.
> 
> Cheers,
> Richard


Only works with steel steerers, alloy and carbon don't have the right ID 
for starters.

Dia Compe do a headset for this, and there is also the Use ring-go star

-- 
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

On Wed, 01 Oct 2008 11:50:48 +0200
M-gineering  wrote:

> Dia Compe do a headset for this, and there is also the Use ring-go
> star
> 
How does that work?  Does the adjusting screw expand the conical washer?

Rob Morley wrote:
> You can use a plain clamp (cutoff stem, seatpost clamp, whatever) and
> preload the bearings with a length of studding right through the steerer
> secured at each end by a nut and large washer.

You mean put the studding lengthwise, along the middle of the steerer?
That won't work, remember this is all about trying to stick a quill
stem into the steerer! If you mean, drill a couple of holes in the
steerer and stick a bolt (or something) through it that way (axis of
bolt at 90 degrees from axis of steerer) I can't see how that would
work to provide varying tightness for the headset.

Dia-compe... That rings a bell. I think it is the mechanism that comes
with the dia-compe headset.

Ah, I've got it! Here's a picture:

http://www.billys.co.uk/english/group.php?prod=hddc-t1a

The thing at the top of the picture is the "lower clamp" I was going
on about. That is the thing that you tighten to adjust the headset
tension. The "upper clamp" is meant to be the stem itself, which in
the Airnimal is replaced by a collar that does exactly the same thing
(holds onto the steerer and makes something for the "lower clamp" to
push against).

-Myra

On Wed, 1 Oct 2008 04:17:46 -0700 (PDT)
Myra in Cambridge  wrote:

> Rob Morley wrote:
> > You can use a plain clamp (cutoff stem, seatpost clamp, whatever)
> > and preload the bearings with a length of studding right through
> > the steerer secured at each end by a nut and large washer.
> 
> You mean put the studding lengthwise, along the middle of the steerer?
> That won't work, remember this is all about trying to stick a quill
> stem into the steerer!

Indeed - you don't fit the stem until after you've adjusted the headset
in the way I described, the studding is a tool rather than a fixture.

Rob Morley wrote:
> Indeed - you don't fit the stem until after you've adjusted the headset
> in the way I described, the studding is a tool rather than a fixture.

Ah, I get it now: use the studding to adjust the headset, then tighten
up the the clamp really tight to keep the same tension, then remove
the studding and fit the stem. Just the same way the top cap & star
washer become superflous once you have the stem locked into place.

-Myra

Myra in Cambridge wrote:
> Rob Morley wrote:
>> You can use a plain clamp (cutoff stem, seatpost clamp, whatever) and
>> preload the bearings with a length of studding right through the steerer
>> secured at each end by a nut and large washer.
> 
> You mean put the studding lengthwise, along the middle of the steerer?
> That won't work, remember this is all about trying to stick a quill
> stem into the steerer! If you mean, drill a couple of holes in the
> steerer and stick a bolt (or something) through it that way (axis of
> bolt at 90 degrees from axis of steerer) I can't see how that would
> work to provide varying tightness for the headset.
> 
> Dia-compe... That rings a bell. I think it is the mechanism that comes
> with the dia-compe headset.
> 
> Ah, I've got it! Here's a picture:
> 
> http://www.billys.co.uk/english/group.php?prod=hddc-t1a
> 
> The thing at the top of the picture is the "lower clamp" I was going
> on about. That is the thing that you tighten to adjust the headset
> tension. The "upper clamp" is meant to be the stem itself, which in
> the Airnimal is replaced by a collar that does exactly the same thing
> (holds onto the steerer and makes something for the "lower clamp" to
> push against).
> 
> -Myra

the working bits: http://www.m-gineering.nl/diatech.jpg

-- 
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

In article , Myra in Cambridge wrote:
>Rob Morley wrote:
>> Indeed - you don't fit the stem until after you've adjusted the headset
>> in the way I described, the studding is a tool rather than a fixture.
>
>Ah, I get it now: use the studding to adjust the headset, then tighten
>up the the clamp really tight to keep the same tension, then remove
>the studding and fit the stem. Just the same way the top cap & star
>washer become superflous once you have the stem locked into place.

Exactly - by putting studding through the whole length, you don't have to
worry about getting the star washer out of the way afterwards to put the
quill in.