Hi,
Winter is just about upon us here in France, or at the very least, it's 
still dark when I have to go to work (leaving at 06:30 and 07:30 on 
alternate mornings (the advantage being that I'm finished by one pm, 
four days out of five)).  So far, the question hasn't arisen as the 
Dawes is still in the workshop, being 'cannibalised' to create my Surly, 
but I hope to have the new bike by the first week of October, so time is 
pressing.  

I'm looking for a set of lights, and as an impoverished teacher, I don't 
want a set that needs new batteries every two weeks.  A good set or 
rechargeables would no doubt solve that, but at the moment, the only 
charger I have is a little AA one that takes two batteries at a time.  
Plus, I'm not entirely sure that the school would allow me to plug in 
the charger in class, and carry it from room to room (on the days when I 
have to change classrooms between periods).

Then I stumble across this ... 

http://www.oredon.com/content/oredon/produits.php?id=18

There doesn't seem to be an English version of that page, but basically 
it's a set of two magnets on each wheel that apparently generate an 
electromagnetic field which powers the LEDs.  As such, i) there are no 
batteries, ii) there are no bulbs to replace (the company claims fifteen 
years between replacement of LEDs), and iii) the lights are on every 
time you ride.

Oh, and there's a capacitor that gives four minutes of light when the 
bike stops.

Most of my night (or 'early morning') riding is going to be in Paris, so 
seeing is much less important than being seen.  

Do these lights seem like a good thing?

Oh, one minus point is that the lights themselves mount on the wheel 
hubs, and as my touring will be done with four panniers, I've exchanged 
some e-mails with their customer services department, to find if I can 
mount the lights on the front stem and on the rear pannier rack.  
They've yet to respond on that score, so what does the group think?  Do 
I wait as they sound like just what the doctor ordered, or do I go ahead 
and buy a set of 'real' lights with rechargeable batteries?  On the 
matter of recharging, I suppose it's not that important to do so at the 
school, as since my working day ends at one pm, I'll be coming home in 
broad daylight, so can easily recharge the batteries at home.

Thoughts ?

-- 
aigle_de_la_route
Surly Long Haul Trucker
http://2x2wheels.org/

On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 11:32:18 +0200, aigle_de_la_route
 said in
:

>There doesn't seem to be an English version of that page, but basically 
>it's a set of two magnets on each wheel that apparently generate an 
>electromagnetic field which powers the LEDs.  As such, i) there are no 
>batteries, ii) there are no bulbs to replace (the company claims fifteen 
>years between replacement of LEDs), and iii) the lights are on every 
>time you ride.

I would go instead for a dymano-powered lighting setup, which will
give much more power to play with; I am not convinced the power in
those lights you linked will be sufficient for the purpose of being
seen, and for seeing (if you have to detour down a dark bit) they
will almost certainly be inadequate.  I have hub dynamos on four
bikes, and can't recommend them highly enough.  There are
dynamo-powered LED lights with standlight.

Guy
-- 
May contain traces of irony.  Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

"aigle_de_la_route"  wrote in message 
news:SPAMaigle_de_la_routeSPAM-BB3086.11321828092008@news.free.fr...

As Guy said, batteryless lights have been around for years  : they're called 
dynamos and they're great.

Modern LED ones are brighter than ever, and have very effective standlights 
too.

For reliability, you can't beat a hub dynamo - SON if you're feeling flush, 
otherwise the shimano ones are pretty darn good (make sure you get a 3W one 
if you get shimano - they do make 2.4W ones). People say the  drag on 
shimanos can be an issue, especially on the older/cheaper ones, but I've got 
the original NX10, the worst one they built, and TBH there's not really a 
discernable difference between that and my SON.

B+M IQ fly has just been superseded by the IQ Cyo, but if you're in a hurry 
you might not get one of the new ones. Or there's the Schmidt edelux, 
Inolight extreme or supernova E3. IQ fly will be the cheapest of all of 
these, and it's quite bright enough,

cheers,
clive

On 28 Sep, 10:32, aigle_de_la_route
 wrote:
> Do
> I wait as they sound like just what the doctor ordered, or do I go ahead
> and buy a set of 'real' lights with rechargeable batteries?  On the
> matter of recharging, I suppose it's not that important to do so at the
> school, as since my working day ends at one pm, I'll be coming home in
> broad daylight, so can easily recharge the batteries at home.
>

I suggest doing what I do - I use 'real' lights and two sets of NiMH-
hybrid batteries. These hold their charge much longer than the earlier
rechargable cells. I have one set of cells in use and the other either
on charge or in store charged until needed, then when the first set of
batteries run low I switch to the second and put the first on charge.
I usually have to change the cells over about every 2 weeks. The extra
cost of buying a second set of cells is worth it as insurence against
getting stuck with flat cells just when I need the bike at night.

There are several people selling NiMH-hybrid cells and chargers on e-
bay. Unlike ordinary rchargables, hybrid cells are supplied ready-
charged.

Jon

On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 03:15:47 -0700, Jon wrote:

> There are several people selling NiMH-hybrid cells and chargers on e-
> bay. Unlike ordinary rchargables, hybrid cells are supplied ready-
> charged.

If you're going for NiMH you might need a new charger but (certainly in the
UK) you can get a charger and 4xAA batteries quite cheaply and easily. 
With a new set of lights, this might work out cheaper initially than a
dynamo but you have to pay a few pennies each time you charge them up.

My LED lights also need charging approximately once every 2 weeks and they
only use AAA batteries.

I've recently seen wind up front lights and some that can be charged
using a USB cable - if you have a computer at work I'm sure you could get
away with plugging that in to charge up! (are those USB AA batteries on
sale yet?)  I've not tried these out so I don't know how good they are.

peter

In article ,
 "Just zis Guy, you know?"  wrote:

> On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 11:32:18 +0200, aigle_de_la_route
>  said in
> :
> 
> >There doesn't seem to be an English version of that page, but basically 
> >it's a set of two magnets on each wheel that apparently generate an 
> >electromagnetic field which powers the LEDs.  As such, i) there are no 
> >batteries, ii) there are no bulbs to replace (the company claims fifteen 
> >years between replacement of LEDs), and iii) the lights are on every 
> >time you ride.
> 
> I would go instead for a dymano-powered lighting setup, which will
> give much more power to play with; I am not convinced the power in
> those lights you linked will be sufficient for the purpose of being
> seen, and for seeing (if you have to detour down a dark bit) they
> will almost certainly be inadequate.  I have hub dynamos on four
> bikes, and can't recommend them highly enough.  There are
> dynamo-powered LED lights with standlight.

Thanks for that.  Any brands you recommend, that are available via mail 
order?


-- 
aigle_de_la_route
Surly Long Haul Trucker
http://2x2wheels.org/

In article <4KKdndpojtaKxELVnZ2dnUVZ8uydnZ2d@posted.plusnet>,
 "Clive George"  wrote:

> "aigle_de_la_route"  wrote in message 
> news:SPAMaigle_de_la_routeSPAM-BB3086.11321828092008@news.free.fr...
> 
> As Guy said, batteryless lights have been around for years  : they're called 
> dynamos and they're great.
> 
> Modern LED ones are brighter than ever, and have very effective standlights 
> too.
> 
> For reliability, you can't beat a hub dynamo - SON if you're feeling flush, 
> otherwise the shimano ones are pretty darn good (make sure you get a 3W one 
> if you get shimano - they do make 2.4W ones). People say the  drag on 
> shimanos can be an issue, especially on the older/cheaper ones, but I've got 
> the original NX10, the worst one they built, and TBH there's not really a 
> discernable difference between that and my SON.
> 
> B+M IQ fly has just been superseded by the IQ Cyo, but if you're in a hurry 
> you might not get one of the new ones. Or there's the Schmidt edelux, 
> Inolight extreme or supernova E3. IQ fly will be the cheapest of all of 
> these, and it's quite bright enough,

'SON' is the brand, yeah?  <fx: googles ...>

http://www.kinetics.org.uk/html/son_hub_dynamo.shtml

Wow.  OK, the price is steep, but if it's going to work, I can dig it.  
Just one thing: can I fit these things myself (bearing in mind my 
extreme techie numptieness), or does the bike need to go back into the 
workshop?

-- 
aigle_de_la_route
Surly Long Haul Trucker
http://2x2wheels.org/

"aigle_de_la_route"  wrote in message 
news:SPAMaigle_de_la_routeSPAM-2025B9.12425228092008@news.free.fr...

> 'SON' is the brand, yeah?  <fx: googles ...>
>
> http://www.kinetics.org.uk/html/son_hub_dynamo.shtml
>
> Wow.  OK, the price is steep, but if it's going to work, I can dig it.

Buy from Germany - the good stuff comes from there and it's closer to you 
anyway.

See also the recent thread "Hub dynamo and wheel component advice" - about a 
built wheel with shimano hub for 60 EUR (are you on 26" or 700c wheels?), 
which is a heck of a lot less than a SON.

Front lamp - IQ fly senso plus is 69 EUR from Roseversand (the non-IQ fly is 
dimmer). IW Cyo is 89 EUR but not ready yet.

Rear lamp - DToplight? I wasn't at all impressed with the XS though - the 
switch was too exposed to water. Others may have more useful recommendations 
(I've built my own rear lamps).

> Just one thing: can I fit these things myself (bearing in mind my
> extreme techie numptieness), or does the bike need to go back into the
> workshop?

Fit the front wheel like any other. Fit the lamps according to the 
instructions. Run some wires between the bits. So basic wiring skills 
required. It's not hard though :-)

cheers,
clive

On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 12:40:53 +0200, aigle_de_la_route
 said in
:

>Thanks for that.  Any brands you recommend, that are available via mail 
>order?

Bush & Muller do a pretty fair sidewall dynamo, but hub dynamos are
best, which means either a wheel build or buying a wheel with dynamo
on board.  The Shimano is best value, the SON is best in every other
respect.  Both are available mail order.

The best lights, pretty consistently over a long period of time,
seem to be the Busch & Muller ones.  The 4D Toplight at the back,
and whatever is the current LED front light.  Others come and go,
but B&M are consistently good.

It's a non-trivial outlay but will last pretty much indefinitely.  I
have not even had to do the bearings on any of my hub dynamos yet.

Guy
-- 
May contain traces of irony.  Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

aigle_de_la_route wrote:

> I'm looking for a set of lights, and as an impoverished teacher, I
> don't want a set that needs new batteries every two weeks.  A good
> set or rechargeables would no doubt solve that, but at the moment,
> the only charger I have is a little AA one that takes two batteries
> at a time.

The more powerful rechargeable lights are supplied with a special charger, 
or you could get a larger charger for ordinary NiMH batteries cheaply.  But 
a dynamo system may be more suitable for your situation anyway.

~PB

In article ,
 "Just zis Guy, you know?"  wrote:

> On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 12:40:53 +0200, aigle_de_la_route
>  said in
> :
> 
> >Thanks for that.  Any brands you recommend, that are available via mail 
> >order?
> 
> Bush & Muller do a pretty fair sidewall dynamo, but hub dynamos are
> best, which means either a wheel build or buying a wheel with dynamo
> on board.  The Shimano is best value, the SON is best in every other
> respect.  Both are available mail order.
> 
> The best lights, pretty consistently over a long period of time,
> seem to be the Busch & Muller ones.  The 4D Toplight at the back,
> and whatever is the current LED front light.  Others come and go,
> but B&M are consistently good.
> 
> It's a non-trivial outlay but will last pretty much indefinitely.  I
> have not even had to do the bearings on any of my hub dynamos yet.

Just checking their website now [1] ... the 'IQ Cyo' seems to be the one 
that gets top billing at the front.  Unfortunately, the site's in 
German, and the prices aren't indicated.  Still, I suppose we're talking 
200? for the hub dynamo and both lights.  Ah well .. like you say, it'll 
last for the life of the bike.

[1] http://www.bumm.de
-- 
aigle_de_la_route
Surly Long Haul Trucker
http://2x2wheels.org/

Clive George wrote:
> "aigle_de_la_route"  wrote in message 
> news:SPAMaigle_de_la_routeSPAM-2025B9.12425228092008@news.free.fr...
> 
> Rear lamp - DToplight? I wasn't at all impressed with the XS though - the 
> switch was too exposed to water. Others may have more useful recommendations 
> (I've built my own rear lamps).

I've got a DToplight XS (dynamo powered) and it doesn't have any switch 
on it. Though the standlight on it stopped working after a while 
(possibly water damage, or maybe it got overvolted somehow).
So I replaced it with a Toplight Flat Plus. This is rather flat, and a 
nice bright LED with good side visibility, and the standlight stays on 
for ages. Plus it is rather cheap (if ordering from Germany - I've not 
seen it for sale in the UK).

>> Just one thing: can I fit these things myself (bearing in mind my
>> extreme techie numptieness), or does the bike need to go back into the
>> workshop?
> 
> Fit the front wheel like any other. Fit the lamps according to the 
> instructions. Run some wires between the bits. So basic wiring skills 
> required. It's not hard though :-)

Yes, I'd agree that its not too hard. Though it might be a little tricky 
if you want it too look tidy. And crimping the connectors onto the wires 
can be tricky, its worth getting a decent tool to do it.

-- 
Craig Wallace
http://craig.neogeo.org.uk
http://www.neogeo.org.uk

aigle_de_la_route wrote:

> Just checking their website now [1] ... the 'IQ Cyo' seems to be the one 
> that gets top billing at the front.  Unfortunately, the site's in 
> German, and the prices aren't indicated.  Still, I suppose we're talking 
> 200? for the hub dynamo and both lights.  Ah well .. like you say, it'll 
> last for the life of the bike.
> 
> [1] http://www.bumm.de

Have a look at Roseversand ( http://www.roseversand.de ) and Bike24  ( 
http://www.bike24.com ). Both are German bike shops, but they have a 
version of the sites in English, and are reasonably priced for B&M lights.
The IQ Fly is rather bright, and more than adequate for city riding, so 
you don't really need the IQ Cyo (which isn't available yet I think).

For cost, probably about €65 for the front light, €15 for the rear, then 
maybe about €100 for a complete wheel (depends on what you want).

Or I just noticed this set on Roseversand:
http://www.roseversand.de/output/controller.aspx?cid=156&detail=10&detail2=10796
€100 for good front and rear lights, and the dynamo hub. Its not the 
best hub ever, but its a good price. Of course you would need to add the 
cost of a rim / spokes / wheelbuilding.

-- 
Craig Wallace
http://craig.neogeo.org.uk
http://www.neogeo.org.uk

In article <ktqdnWQavswCH0LVRVnytAA@posted.plusnet>,
 Craig Wallace  wrote:

> aigle_de_la_route wrote:
> 
> > Just checking their website now [1] ... the 'IQ Cyo' seems to be the one 
> > that gets top billing at the front.  Unfortunately, the site's in 
> > German, and the prices aren't indicated.  Still, I suppose we're talking 
> > 200? for the hub dynamo and both lights.  Ah well .. like you say, it'll 
> > last for the life of the bike.
> > 
> > [1] http://www.bumm.de
> 
> Have a look at Roseversand ( http://www.roseversand.de ) and Bike24  ( 
> http://www.bike24.com ). Both are German bike shops, but they have a 
> version of the sites in English, and are reasonably priced for B&M lights.
> The IQ Fly is rather bright, and more than adequate for city riding, so 
> you don't really need the IQ Cyo (which isn't available yet I think).
> 
> For cost, probably about ¤65 for the front light, ¤15 for the rear, then 
> maybe about ¤100 for a complete wheel (depends on what you want).
> 
> Or I just noticed this set on Roseversand:
> http://www.roseversand.de/output/controller.aspx?cid=156&detail=10&detail2=107
> 96
> ¤100 for good front and rear lights, and the dynamo hub. Its not the 
> best hub ever, but its a good price. Of course you would need to add the 
> cost of a rim / spokes / wheelbuilding.

<fx: salivates ...>


-- 
aigle_de_la_route
Surly Long Haul Trucker
http://2x2wheels.org/

In article <ktqdnWQavswCH0LVRVnytAA@posted.plusnet>,
 Craig Wallace  wrote:

> The IQ Fly is rather bright, and more than adequate for city riding, so 
> you don't really need the IQ Cyo (which isn't available yet I think).

Seems to be available ..

<http://www.roseversand.de/output/controller.aspx?cid=156&detail=10&detai
l2=16699&las=1&lasid=231>


-- 
aigle_de_la_route
Surly Long Haul Trucker
http://2x2wheels.org/

On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 13:56:37 +0200, aigle_de_la_route
 said in
:

>I suppose we're talking 
>200? for the hub dynamo and both lights.  Ah well .. like you say, it'll 
>last for the life of the bike.

Nexus hub was £40 last time I bought one, the IQfly cost me under 40
IIRC, the last tail light I bought was around 20, and then there's
the wheel build.  So maybe closer to 150, but maybe not.

It might outlast the bike, it can all be transferred.  

Guy
-- 
May contain traces of irony.  Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

aigle_de_la_route wrote:
> In article <ktqdnWQavswCH0LVRVnytAA@posted.plusnet>,
>  Craig Wallace  wrote:
> 
>> The IQ Fly is rather bright, and more than adequate for city riding, so 
>> you don't really need the IQ Cyo (which isn't available yet I think).
> 
> Seems to be available ..
> 
> <http://www.roseversand.de/output/controller.aspx?cid=156&detail=10&detai
> l2=16699&las=1&lasid=231>

That says it can be pre-ordered, and due in week 41 (the week starting 
October 6th). So perhaps available soon, but not quite yet.

-- 
Craig Wallace
http://craig.neogeo.org.uk
http://www.neogeo.org.uk

In article <d4ydnYEvVtg6FELVnZ2dnUVZ8s_inZ2d@posted.plusnet>,
 Craig Wallace  wrote:

> aigle_de_la_route wrote:
> > In article <ktqdnWQavswCH0LVRVnytAA@posted.plusnet>,
> >  Craig Wallace  wrote:
> > 
> >> The IQ Fly is rather bright, and more than adequate for city riding, so 
> >> you don't really need the IQ Cyo (which isn't available yet I think).
> > 
> > Seems to be available ..
> > 
> > <http://www.roseversand.de/output/controller.aspx?cid=156&detail=10&detai
> > l2=16699&las=1&lasid=231>
> 
> That says it can be pre-ordered, and due in week 41 (the week starting 
> October 6th). So perhaps available soon, but not quite yet.

I stand corrected - 'was preparing classes at the same time I was 
surfing.  :-P

-- 
aigle_de_la_route
Surly Long Haul Trucker
http://2x2wheels.org/

Craig Wallace  writes:

> aigle_de_la_route wrote:
>
>> Just checking their website now [1] ... the 'IQ Cyo' seems to be
>> the one that gets top billing at the front.  Unfortunately, the
>> site's in German, and the prices aren't indicated.  Still, I
>> suppose we're talking 200? for the hub dynamo and both lights.
>> Ah well .. like you say, it'll last for the life of the bike.
>>
>> [1] http://www.bumm.de
>
> Have a look at Roseversand ( http://www.roseversand.de ) and Bike24
> ( http://www.bike24.com ). Both are German bike shops, but they
> have a version of the sites in English, and are reasonably priced
> for B&M lights.

Closer to home, www.gillesberthoud.fr is pretty good.

Brendan
-- 
Brendan Halpin,  Department of Sociology,  University of Limerick,  Ireland
Tel: w +353-61-213147 f +353-61-202569 h +353-61-338562; Room F2-025 x 3147
mailto:brendan.halpin@ul.ie  http://www.ul.ie/sociology/brendan.halpin.html

In article ,
 Brendan Halpin  wrote:

> Craig Wallace  writes:
> 
> > aigle_de_la_route wrote:
> >
> >> Just checking their website now [1] ... the 'IQ Cyo' seems to be
> >> the one that gets top billing at the front.  Unfortunately, the
> >> site's in German, and the prices aren't indicated.  Still, I
> >> suppose we're talking 200? for the hub dynamo and both lights.
> >> Ah well .. like you say, it'll last for the life of the bike.
> >>
> >> [1] http://www.bumm.de
> >
> > Have a look at Roseversand ( http://www.roseversand.de ) and Bike24
> > ( http://www.bike24.com ). Both are German bike shops, but they
> > have a version of the sites in English, and are reasonably priced
> > for B&M lights.
> 
> Closer to home, www.gillesberthoud.fr is pretty good.

Ah, interesting.  They were the guys who sold me my very sexy Shimano 
Dura-Ace shifters, which are going on the downtubes of the Surly..

http://www.flickr.com/photos/yitzhakgoldstein/2872421579/sizes/o/

Thanks!

-- 
aigle_de_la_route
Surly Long Haul Trucker
http://2x2wheels.org/

In article <h5SdnTqLROi8-ELVnZ2dnUVZ8v-dnZ2d@posted.plusnet>,
 "Clive George"  wrote:

> "aigle_de_la_route"  wrote in message 
> news:SPAMaigle_de_la_routeSPAM-2025B9.12425228092008@news.free.fr...
> 
> > 'SON' is the brand, yeah?  <fx: googles ...>
> >
> > http://www.kinetics.org.uk/html/son_hub_dynamo.shtml
> >
> > Wow.  OK, the price is steep, but if it's going to work, I can dig it.
> 
> Buy from Germany - the good stuff comes from there and it's closer to you 
> anyway.
> 
> See also the recent thread "Hub dynamo and wheel component advice" - about a 
> built wheel with shimano hub for 60 EUR (are you on 26" or 700c wheels?), 
> which is a heck of a lot less than a SON.
> 
> Front lamp - IQ fly senso plus is 69 EUR from Roseversand (the non-IQ fly is 
> dimmer). IW Cyo is 89 EUR but not ready yet.
> 
> Rear lamp - DToplight? I wasn't at all impressed with the XS though - the 
> switch was too exposed to water. Others may have more useful recommendations 
> (I've built my own rear lamps).
> 
> > Just one thing: can I fit these things myself (bearing in mind my
> > extreme techie numptieness), or does the bike need to go back into the
> > workshop?
> 
> Fit the front wheel like any other. Fit the lamps according to the 
> instructions. Run some wires between the bits. So basic wiring skills 
> required. It's not hard though :-)

Just rereading this, you're talking of buying the wheel and the hub in 
one unit?  If I just buy the dynamo, is the fitting within the 
capabilties of a techie noob?  Remember that this is the guy who took 
two and a half hours to change a headlamp on his BMW motorbike .... 

-- 
aigle_de_la_route
Surly Long Haul Trucker
http://2x2wheels.org/

In article , aigle_de_la_route wrote:
>
>http://www.oredon.com/content/oredon/produits.php?id=18
>
>There doesn't seem to be an English version of that page, but basically 
>it's a set of two magnets on each wheel that apparently generate an 
>electromagnetic field which powers the LEDs.

http://www.reelight.com/ is an English site describing the same lights.

Between the work involved to break them up to mount the light bit on a stem
or rack leaving the generator bit next to the magnets, and the low power
of the lights, I'd second the recommendation to get some dynamo lights.

In article ,
 armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Alan Braggins) wrote:

> In article , 
> aigle_de_la_route wrote:
> >
> >http://www.oredon.com/content/oredon/produits.php?id=18
> >
> >There doesn't seem to be an English version of that page, but basically 
> >it's a set of two magnets on each wheel that apparently generate an 
> >electromagnetic field which powers the LEDs.
> 
> http://www.reelight.com/ is an English site describing the same lights.
> 
> Between the work involved to break them up to mount the light bit on a stem
> or rack leaving the generator bit next to the magnets, and the low power
> of the lights, I'd second the recommendation to get some dynamo lights.

And I'd 'third' it, as in, taking the excellent advice dispensed on this 
group.

-- 
aigle_de_la_route
Surly Long Haul Trucker
http://2x2wheels.org/

aigle_de_la_route wrote:
> In article <h5SdnTqLROi8-ELVnZ2dnUVZ8v-dnZ2d@posted.plusnet>,
> "Clive George"  wrote:
......
>> Fit the front wheel like any other. Fit the lamps according to the
>> instructions. Run some wires between the bits. So basic wiring skills
>> required. It's not hard though :-)
>
> Just rereading this, you're talking of buying the wheel and the hub in
> one unit?  If I just buy the dynamo, is the fitting within the
> capabilties of a techie noob?  Remember that this is the guy who took
> two and a half hours to change a headlamp on his BMW motorbike ....

A dynamo hub (far superior to the kind of dymano that clamps onto the forks 
and runs off the tyre) takes the place of a normal wheel hub.  So a wheel 
needs to be built or rebuilt.  Normally new spokes would be used.

It's a skilled and not-easy and not-quick job, but one a dedicated noob can 
do to a high standard by following instructions from a book or website.

~PB

"aigle_de_la_route"  wrote in message 
news:SPAMaigle_de_la_routeSPAM-26CD51.17525928092008@news.free.fr...

>> Fit the front wheel like any other. Fit the lamps according to the
>> instructions. Run some wires between the bits. So basic wiring skills
>> required. It's not hard though :-)
>
> Just rereading this, you're talking of buying the wheel and the hub in
> one unit?  If I just buy the dynamo, is the fitting within the
> capabilties of a techie noob?  Remember that this is the guy who took
> two and a half hours to change a headlamp on his BMW motorbike ....

Yeah, but you managed it, right? :-)

A hub dynamo needs a wheel built around it, but there are plenty of people 
selling such things. If you're not ept, I'd suggest not trying to build the 
wheel yourself.

cheers,
clive

> I suggest doing what I do - I use 'real' lights and two sets of NiMH-
> hybrid batteries. These hold their charge much longer than the earlier
> rechargable cells. I have one set of cells in use and the other either
> on charge or in store charged until needed, then when the first set of
> batteries run low I switch to the second and put the first on charge.
> I usually have to change the cells over about every 2 weeks. The extra
> cost of buying a second set of cells is worth it as insurence against
> getting stuck with flat cells just when I need the bike at night.
> 
> There are several people selling NiMH-hybrid cells and chargers on e-
> bay. Unlike ordinary rchargables, hybrid cells are supplied ready-
> charged.
Just to make it clear, you need the right charger type for whatever type of 
cells you have.

My two AA cells last >4 hours with a filament light.

Tip:  Don't buy (say) 2 cells of one make and 2 of another later as they may be 
of slightly different dimensions which can make one set rattle and be poor 
contact with the brass end contacts which are supposed to be springy but are 
only fractionally.

Tip: Vaseline conducts electricity.  It is good for contacts such as you find in 
cycle lights and can make the difference between an epileptic moth and a beaming 
candle.

Warning: Don't use rechargeable batteries for rear lights.  Use LEDs and 
ordinary non-rechargeable cells. (Why? Because a rechargeable cell 'dies' in 
less than a minute while a normal cell gets feebler over a long period.  So you 
always know you have a burning rear light.)


-- 
Peter (Prof) Fox
Multitude of things for beer, cycling, Morris and curiosities at 
<http://vulpeculox.net>
2 Tees Close, Witham, Essex      01376 517206

Peter Fox wrote:
>> I suggest doing what I do - I use 'real' lights and two sets of NiMH-
>> hybrid batteries. These hold their charge much longer than the earlier
>> rechargable cells. I have one set of cells in use and the other either
>> on charge or in store charged until needed, then when the first set of
>> batteries run low I switch to the second and put the first on charge.
>> I usually have to change the cells over about every 2 weeks. The extra
>> cost of buying a second set of cells is worth it as insurence against
>> getting stuck with flat cells just when I need the bike at night.
>>
>> There are several people selling NiMH-hybrid cells and chargers on e-
>> bay. Unlike ordinary rchargables, hybrid cells are supplied ready-
>> charged.
> Just to make it clear, you need the right charger type for whatever type 
> of cells you have.
> 
> My two AA cells last >4 hours with a filament light.
> 
> Tip:  Don't buy (say) 2 cells of one make and 2 of another later as they 
> may be of slightly different dimensions which can make one set rattle 
> and be poor contact with the brass end contacts which are supposed to be 
> springy but are only fractionally.

That is good advice. Although I often buy a different make when I 
replace some, so that I know which are the newest or oldest.

As soon as I take a new set out of the packet, I mark them with a 
permanent marker into pairs. Each pair get charged or used together, and 
the pairs never mixed. (All my lits, GPS etc run on two batteries at the 
moment). I don't know if this helps them last longer, but reduces the 
chances of mixing on charged and on discharged battery.

I would recommend get a decent make of rechargables, the cheap make I 
have just tried only lasted 2 or 3 recharges.

I would also recommend getting a decent charger, it should increase the 
life of your batteries.

> Tip: Vaseline conducts electricity.  It is good for contacts such as you 
> find in cycle lights and can make the difference between an epileptic 
> moth and a beaming candle.

Never thought about that, I do have some electrical lubricant I could try.

> Warning: Don't use rechargeable batteries for rear lights.  Use LEDs and 
> ordinary non-rechargeable cells. (Why? Because a rechargeable cell 
> 'dies' in less than a minute while a normal cell gets feebler over a 
> long period.  So you always know you have a burning rear light.)

I have never noticed that. I have noticed that the NiMH batteries in a 
rear light are going flat before, and still used them for several hours 
before replacing/recharging them.
I also carry multiple lights on the rear, two on the bike and one in my 
rucksack. I will put a second in my rucksack (in a mesh pocket) when I 
remember where I put it.

Peter Fox wrote:

> Warning: Don't use rechargeable batteries for rear lights.  Use LEDs
> and ordinary non-rechargeable cells. (Why? Because a rechargeable
> cell 'dies' in less than a minute

I used to think that, too, but that was when rechargeable batteries were 
rubbish.

Now I notice my small Cateye rear LEDs get noticeably dimmer an hour before 
they've run out with 1000mAh NiMH AAA cells.  That is on the rare occasion I 
let them get that far.

As for hybrid cells, they're only really advantagous for devices that you 
use only seldomly, when the batteries will be unused for a long time (many 
weeks or months).  I find ordinary modern high-capacity cells retain plenty 
of charge for a few weeks.

~PB

In article ,
 "Pete Biggs"  
 wrote:

> aigle_de_la_route wrote:
> > In article <h5SdnTqLROi8-ELVnZ2dnUVZ8v-dnZ2d@posted.plusnet>,
> > "Clive George"  wrote:
> ......
> >> Fit the front wheel like any other. Fit the lamps according to the
> >> instructions. Run some wires between the bits. So basic wiring skills
> >> required. It's not hard though :-)
> >
> > Just rereading this, you're talking of buying the wheel and the hub in
> > one unit?  If I just buy the dynamo, is the fitting within the
> > capabilties of a techie noob?  Remember that this is the guy who took
> > two and a half hours to change a headlamp on his BMW motorbike ....
> 
> A dynamo hub (far superior to the kind of dymano that clamps onto the forks 
> and runs off the tyre) takes the place of a normal wheel hub.  So a wheel 
> needs to be built or rebuilt.  Normally new spokes would be used.
> 
> It's a skilled and not-easy and not-quick job, but one a dedicated noob can 
> do to a high standard by following instructions from a book or website.

Ah ... in other words, I'm buying the wheel. :-p

Who's the manufacturer, again..? 

-- 
aigle_de_la_route
Surly Long Haul Trucker
http://2x2wheels.org/

"aigle_de_la_route"  a écrit:

> I'm looking for a set of lights, and as an impoverished teacher,
> I don't want a set that needs new batteries every two weeks.

I'm a big fan of dynamos in general, and of hub dynamos in particular, but
if money's tight there are many good LED lights available now that would be
more than adequate for an intramural commute at a fraction of the cost of a
good hub dynamo system. A 1W LED headlamp will give you a couple of weeks
service between battery charges and will detach quickly from the bike and
slip into a pocket.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=25628

If you plan to go further afield or tour in the future, a hub dynamo would
be a worthwhile investment. Vélib' bikes use an inexpensive Shimano hub with
good quality B&M LED lamps, to give you an idea of the kind of results you
can expect. LED technology is evolving quickly at the moment, and the best 
lamps are expensive. I'd be wary about investing in the state of the art 
when prices are likely to fall in the future.

James Thomson

Quoting  Peter Fox  :
>Warning: Don't use rechargeable batteries for rear lights.  Use LEDs and 
>ordinary non-rechargeable cells. (Why? Because a rechargeable cell 'dies' in 
>less than a minute while a normal cell gets feebler over a long period. So you
>always know you have a burning rear light.)

On the other hand if you have redundant rear lights, which I strongly
recommend because no matter what kind of batteries you use a single rear
light can always go kaput and leave you oblivious, if you use
rechargeables you know when it's time for battery replacement whereas with
primary cells you are left pondering brightness...
-- 
David Damerell  Kill the tomato!
Today is First Brieday, September.

Quoting  aigle_de_la_route  :
>http://www.oredon.com/content/oredon/produits.php?id=18

Those seem rather like Reelights. I would normally say "hub dynamo", but
if you are so broke you don't want to pop for a set of AAs every
fortnight - Reelights are just about OK for being seen with. You can't go
into dark places with them but maybe you don't have to.
-- 
David Damerell  Kill the tomato!
Today is First Brieday, September.

Quoting  Pete Biggs :
>As for hybrid cells, they're only really advantagous for devices that you 
>use only seldomly, when the batteries will be unused for a long time (many 
>weeks or months).

The reason I use them is that with modern high-capacity cells and
low-wattage LED lights my spare set of batteries can easily go unused for
weeks in summer.
-- 
David Damerell  Kill the tomato!
Today is First Brieday, September.

Quoting  James Thomson :
>can expect. LED technology is evolving quickly at the moment, and the best 
>lamps are expensive. I'd be wary about investing in the state of the art 
>when prices are likely to fall in the future.

I shouldn't sweat that - it's like computers, there's always something
better in 3 months. A light one buys now won't get any worse or any more
expensive because better cheaper things arrive later.

Admittedly, I wish I hadn't bought _two_ Schmidt E6s in the six months
before the advent of the IQ Fly.
-- 
David Damerell  Kill the tomato!
Today is First Brieday, September.

>> I'd be wary about investing in the state of the art
>> when prices are likely to fall in the future.

"David Damerell"  a écrit:

> I shouldn't sweat that - it's like computers, there's always
> something better in 3 months.

It may be like computers, or it may be like (for example) the emergence of 
LCD displays in a CRT dominated market. I think I favour the latter model.

> A light one buys now won't get any worse or any more
> expensive because better cheaper things arrive later.

That's true of course, but better lights will probably be cheaper later. 
That might be a reason not to make a hasty purchase now if alternatives are 
adequate for present needs. I'm still quite happy with my round halogen 
Lumotecs, for example.

> Admittedly, I wish I hadn't bought _two_ Schmidt E6s
> in the six months before the advent of the IQ Fly.

James Thomson

On 29 Sep, 16:48, David Damerell  >
Reelights are just about OK for being seen with. You can't go
> into dark places with them but maybe you don't have to.

I followed a bike with Reelights the other evening, I was not
impressed by their visibility.  Not very bright and too low down, the
rear light reflector was brighter reflecting my front light than was
the LED in the middle.

For not much money you can get a battery charger and several spare
sets of batteries, certainly a lot cheaper than fitting out your bike
with a decent dynamo or even a set of Reelights.

On 28 Sep, 11:42, aigle_de_la_route
> http://www.kinetics.org.uk/html/son_hub_dynamo.shtml
>
> Wow.  OK, the price is steep, but if it's going to work, I can dig it.  

So you're an impoverished teacher who doesn't want to pay for a new
battery charger but you're considering a hub dynamo at 110 quid for
the hub alone, plus the wheel build and the actual lights?  I'm not
knocking the dynamo and I'm all in favour of spending money on bike
gadgets, but if cost is your main criterion I think you may be getting
carried away with thoughts of shiny new toys.

In article 
,
 POHB  wrote:

> On 28 Sep, 11:42, aigle_de_la_route
> > http://www.kinetics.org.uk/html/son_hub_dynamo.shtml
> >
> > Wow.  OK, the price is steep, but if it's going to work, I can dig it.  
> 
> So you're an impoverished teacher who doesn't want to pay for a new
> battery charger but you're considering a hub dynamo at 110 quid for
> the hub alone, plus the wheel build and the actual lights?  I'm not
> knocking the dynamo and I'm all in favour of spending money on bike
> gadgets, but if cost is your main criterion I think you may be getting
> carried away with thoughts of shiny new toys.

Apologies, perhaps my post was inelegantly worded.  I'm not lying on my 
bed every night, gripping my stomach through hunger, whilst stocking up 
on useless bits of metal for the bike.  I bought my Dawes at £500 and 
spent another =~ £300 on the Surly frame, plus 50¤ for the gearshifters 
and ¤40 for the brake levers.  So putting my hand in my pocket if I 
think the 'gadget' is going to work for a long time, doesn't bother me.

I just didn't want to bankrupt myself buying batteries, bulbs, more 
batteries, more batteries ... 

The memory of not being able to go out at night on my bike as a 
teenager, is still fresh in my mind, even though being a teenager, alas, 
isn't.  

-- 
aigle_de_la_route
Surly Long Haul Trucker
http://2x2wheels.org/

In article <48e0a8b9$0$933$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr>,
 "James Thomson"  wrote:

> "aigle_de_la_route"  a écrit:
> 
> > I'm looking for a set of lights, and as an impoverished teacher,
> > I don't want a set that needs new batteries every two weeks.
> 
> I'm a big fan of dynamos in general, and of hub dynamos in particular, but
> if money's tight there are many good LED lights available now that would be
> more than adequate for an intramural commute at a fraction of the cost of a
> good hub dynamo system. A 1W LED headlamp will give you a couple of weeks
> service between battery charges and will detach quickly from the bike and
> slip into a pocket.
> 
> http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=25628
> 
> If you plan to go further afield or tour in the future, a hub dynamo would
> be a worthwhile investment. Vélib' bikes use an inexpensive Shimano hub with
> good quality B&M LED lamps, to give you an idea of the kind of results you
> can expect. LED technology is evolving quickly at the moment, and the best 
> lamps are expensive. I'd be wary about investing in the state of the art 
> when prices are likely to fall in the future.

For the moment, most of my time is spent in and around Paris, as 
mentioned, but I definitely want to strike out at some point in the not 
too distant future .. .


-- 
aigle_de_la_route
Surly Long Haul Trucker
http://2x2wheels.org/

On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:53:25 +0200, aigle_de_la_route
 said in
:

>I just didn't want to bankrupt myself buying batteries, bulbs, more 
>batteries, more batteries ... 

Quite right, too.  My mate Dave drives a ratty old Ford Galaxy and
hasn't changed it not because he can't afford to or is to mean
(despite being a canny Scot), he gets genuine pleasure out of using
something until it is completely worn out.  One day he will shut the
door and it will be like the car at the end of the long chase in the
Blues Brothers.  And he will be happy because it owes him nothing.

Guy
-- 
May contain traces of irony.  Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

basically
> it's a set of two magnets on each wheel that apparently generate an
> electromagnetic field which powers the LEDs.  As such, i) there are no
> batteries, ii) there are no bulbs to replace (the company claims fifteen> Surly Long Haul Truckerhttp://2x2wheels.org/


I got one of these. Building wheels, welding, and sewing my own
parachutes are not for me.

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product-Shimano-Wheel-front--Mavic-XC717-26in-(559)-36-hole-Silver-Alloy-rim-with-Shimano-NX32-Q-R-Dynohub-10956.htm

Actually mine is an older version, but i tour on it and do not feel
the drag .
I am intrigued by the thought that one might get this off the shelf
abroad at half the price but have not found any on the web.
If you bought a hub  a local wheelbuilder would use your rim, but I
wonder whether the saving would be worthwhile after all the faffing
about.
It is great to be able to just go to the bike and ride it without
having to think about lights. The only problem is that it is more
painful if the bike gets nicked.
TerryJ

On Sep 28, 11:32 am, aigle_de_la_route
 wrote:
> Hi,
> Winter is just about upon us here in France, or at the very least, it's
> still dark when I have to go to work (leaving at 06:30 and 07:30 on
> alternate mornings (the advantage being that I'm finished by one pm,
> four days out of five)).  So far, the question hasn't arisen as the
> Dawes is still in the workshop, being 'cannibalised' to create my Surly,
> but I hope to have the new bike by the first week of October, so time is
> pressing.  
>
> I'm looking for a set of lights, and as an impoverished teacher, I don't
> want a set that needs new batteries every two weeks.  A good set or
> rechargeables would no doubt solve that, but at the moment, the only
> charger I have is a little AA one that takes two batteries at a time.  
> Plus, I'm not entirely sure that the school would allow me to plug in
> the charger in class, and carry it from room to room (on the days when I
> have to change classrooms between periods).
>
> Then I stumble across this ...
>
> http://www.oredon.com/content/oredon/produits.php?id=18
>
> There doesn't seem to be an English version of that page, but basically
> it's a set of two magnets on each wheel that apparently generate an
> electromagnetic field which powers the LEDs.  As such, i) there are no
> batteries, ii) there are no bulbs to replace (the company claims fifteen
> years between replacement of LEDs), and iii) the lights are on every
> time you ride.
>
> Oh, and there's a capacitor that gives four minutes of light when the
> bike stops.
>
> Most of my night (or 'early morning') riding is going to be in Paris, so
> seeing is much less important than being seen.  
>
> Do these lights seem like a good thing?
>
> Oh, one minus point is that the lights themselves mount on the wheel
> hubs, and as my touring will be done with four panniers, I've exchanged
> some e-mails with their customer services department, to find if I can
> mount the lights on the front stem and on the rear pannier rack.  
> They've yet to respond on that score, so what does the group think?  Do
> I wait as they sound like just what the doctor ordered, or do I go ahead
> and buy a set of 'real' lights with rechargeable batteries?  On the
> matter of recharging, I suppose it's not that important to do so at the
> school, as since my working day ends at one pm, I'll be coming home in
> broad daylight, so can easily recharge the batteries at home.
>
> Thoughts ?
>
> --
> aigle_de_la_route
> Surly Long Haul Truckerhttp://2x2wheels.org/

I've got a Shimano C050 power generator, with on/off switch. Purchased
on the bike, West Flanders,  Belgium.
I don't know if that 'power generator' term might prove useful in a
web search along with 'dynamo'
The span / dispersal of the light looks interesting, (from on the
bike) but seeing as I live in a city, no real chance of testing it.
It does go off the second I slow right down, but then, whether that is
because it'll do that anyway, or because I've only gone maybe, 500
metres each time I don't know.

On Sep 28, 11:32 am, aigle_de_la_route
 wrote:
> Hi,
> Winter is just about upon us here in France, or at the very least, it's
> still dark when I have to go to work (leaving at 06:30 and 07:30 on
> alternate mornings (the advantage being that I'm finished by one pm,
> four days out of five)).  So far, the question hasn't arisen as the
> Dawes is still in the workshop, being 'cannibalised' to create my Surly,
> but I hope to have the new bike by the first week of October, so time is
> pressing.  
>
> I'm looking for a set of lights, and as an impoverished teacher, I don't
> want a set that needs new batteries every two weeks.  A good set or
> rechargeables would no doubt solve that, but at the moment, the only
> charger I have is a little AA one that takes two batteries at a time.  
> Plus, I'm not entirely sure that the school would allow me to plug in
> the charger in class, and carry it from room to room (on the days when I
> have to change classrooms between periods).
>
> Then I stumble across this ...
>
> http://www.oredon.com/content/oredon/produits.php?id=18
>
> There doesn't seem to be an English version of that page, but basically
> it's a set of two magnets on each wheel that apparently generate an
> electromagnetic field which powers the LEDs.  As such, i) there are no
> batteries, ii) there are no bulbs to replace (the company claims fifteen
> years between replacement of LEDs), and iii) the lights are on every
> time you ride.
>
> Oh, and there's a capacitor that gives four minutes of light when the
> bike stops.
>
> Most of my night (or 'early morning') riding is going to be in Paris, so
> seeing is much less important than being seen.  
>
> Do these lights seem like a good thing?
>
> Oh, one minus point is that the lights themselves mount on the wheel
> hubs, and as my touring will be done with four panniers, I've exchanged
> some e-mails with their customer services department, to find if I can
> mount the lights on the front stem and on the rear pannier rack.  
> They've yet to respond on that score, so what does the group think?  Do
> I wait as they sound like just what the doctor ordered, or do I go ahead
> and buy a set of 'real' lights with rechargeable batteries?  On the
> matter of recharging, I suppose it's not that important to do so at the
> school, as since my working day ends at one pm, I'll be coming home in
> broad daylight, so can easily recharge the batteries at home.
>
> Thoughts ?
>
> --
> aigle_de_la_route
> Surly Long Haul Truckerhttp://2x2wheels.org/

Either Google are down, or there's a blink at this end... meaning I
can't see anything new since I was last here.
So to update/correct my last post;
I've got a Shimano HB-C050-D power generator with a on/off switch.
On the lamp itself; halogen basta.. which I guess is what the HB is
about