Idealy curious about something that maybe you can help with.

Went to a council run, council owned building today and I went by
bike. This is an important trip for me because after a brief spell of
ill health of the mental kind, I'm resolved to get back to the daily
use of my bike. Anyway enough of that drivel, like I said I went by
bike but when I got there I found no means to secure my properly. So I
took it inside and quite reasonably I asked the security minding the
door if they could keep an eye on it in the lobby. They were a bit
ansy about it saying I couldn't bring it inside and that I should take
it outside. They said it wasn't the council problem and he asked me if
I thought that it was the council's problem to provide secure bike
racks. I politly replied that it was the council's problem, to which
he replied that he said it wasn't the council's responsibility if the
bike got nicked. Now I know that, I know that if I chain my bike up
outside of anywhere I take the risk and responsibility that bike is
secure but I thought that someone like a local council should be
responsible for a secure place for a cyclist to make that judgement!

Am I right or wrong? Should I complain about the lack of facilities?

I know even leaving it in the lobby under the watchful eye of security
I take responsibility for leaving (still locked and shackled but not
to anything!!) it but I had no other choice as outside was barren of
any other means to padlock a bike too!

"TrailRat"  wrote in message 
news:42b2f304-3a9f-4cd7-955f-a97726ab22ae@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> Idealy curious about something that maybe you can help with.
>
> Went to a council run, council owned building today and I went by
> bike. [cut] when I got there I found no means to secure my properly. [cut] 
> Should I complain about the lack of facilities?

Yep. Complain to the council. They will either take your complaint 
seriously, acknowledge the problem and deal with it. Or they will fob you 
off. If they fob you off, take it to the local press. Try to get an article 
or feature done to show how hypocritical the council are in boasting how 
green and environmentally friendly they are but at the same time they 
discourage cycling to their premises but not providing secure racks. Make 
them look as bigger fools as you possibly can and I reckon within a few 
weeks cycle racks will appear. I actually think that cycle racks will arrive 
quicker this way than if they acknowledge the problem and say they will deal 
with it. Remember, you are dealing with people who have no interest other 
than wanting to look as if they are doing the right thing.

On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 17:08:34 -0700 (PDT), TrailRat
 wrote:
 
>I know that if I chain my bike up
>outside of anywhere I take the risk and responsibility that bike is
>secure but I thought that someone like a local council should be
>responsible for a secure place for a cyclist to make that judgement!
>
>Am I right or wrong? Should I complain about the lack of facilities?

It's always a difficult one, this, as on the one hand you'd like to
think that councils would provide facilities to encourage cycling, but
on the other hand the real problem isn't the lack of secure parking,
but the society in which you live, where it's virtually guaranteed
that a bike will be nicked if it's not securely chained to something
immovable.

This isn't a new problem - certainly existed when I was a kid,
resulting in at least three or four bikes disappearing[1][2], but it's
something we've perhaps learned to live with so much that we don't
even try to address it any more. 

So yes, complain, in the hope that if enough other do so it might
result in some action, but at the same time take what efforts are
possible to improve the society in which you live to avoid it being an
issue in the first place.

Or, of course, you could just move abroad to somewhere that bike theft
is a very rare problem indeed ;-)

[1] Couldn't afford decent locks, so would often leave them somewhere
you might think safe, like inside the lobby of the church hall while
in a scout meeting. 
[2] Most of which were assembled from parts found dumped in some waste
ground through which I walked (or cycled, when able) to school, so it
was probably an unconscious early form of recycling.

-- 
Ace

On 25 Sep, 08:20, Ace  wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 17:08:34 -0700 (PDT), TrailRat
>
>  wrote:
> >I know that if I chain my bike up
> >outside of anywhere I take the risk and responsibility that bike is
> >secure but I thought that someone like a local council should be
> >responsible for a secure place for a cyclist to make that judgement!
>
> >Am I right or wrong? Should I complain about the lack of facilities?
>
> It's always a difficult one, this, as on the one hand you'd like to
> think that councils would provide facilities to encourage cycling, but
> on the other hand the real problem isn't the lack of secure parking,
> but the society in which you live, where it's virtually guaranteed
> that a bike will be nicked if it's not securely chained to something
> immovable.
>
> This isn't a new problem - certainly existed when I was a kid,
> resulting in at least three or four bikes disappearing[1][2], but it's
> something we've perhaps learned to live with so much that we don't
> even try to address it any more.
>
> So yes, complain, in the hope that if enough other do so it might
> result in some action, but at the same time take what efforts are
> possible to improve the society in which you live to avoid it being an
> issue in the first place.
>
> Or, of course, you could just move abroad to somewhere that bike theft
> is a very rare problem indeed ;-)
>
> [1] Couldn't afford decent locks, so would often leave them somewhere
> you might think safe, like inside the lobby of the church hall while
> in a scout meeting.
> [2] Most of which were assembled from parts found dumped in some waste
> ground through which I walked (or cycled, when able) to school, so it
> was probably an unconscious early form of recycling.
>
> --
> Ace

If you end up needing a journalist, let me know. I'm an enviromental
freelancer.

TrailRat wrote:
> Idealy curious about something that maybe you can help with.
> 
> Went to a council run, council owned building today and I went by
> bike. ... like I said I went by
> bike but when I got there I found no means to secure my properly. 

Complain about the lack of cycle stands for visitors. The guard is not 
equipped to deal with the problem, so don't complain about him.

If you have a local cycling group, see if they will complain for you.

Colin McKenzie


-- 
No-one has ever proved that cycle helmets make cycling any safer at the 
population level, and anyway cycling is about as safe per mile as walking.
Make an informed choice - visit www.cyclehelmets.org.

On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 17:08:34 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be TrailRat
 wrote this:-

>Anyway enough of that drivel, like I said I went by
>bike but when I got there I found no means to secure my properly. [snip]
>Am I right or wrong? Should I complain about the lack of facilities?

Study the council's web site and document. You will probably find
some bullshit about wanting to be the greenest council in the
universe. It is the second bullet point in my council's list of
objectives.

Contact the council, explain the difficulty of parking at their
building, quote the bullshit and enquire what they are doing to
improve the situation.



-- 
  David Hansen, Edinburgh 
 I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
 http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On 25 Sep, 10:09, David Hansen 
wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 17:08:34 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be TrailRat
>  wrote this:-
>
> >Anyway enough of that drivel, like I said I went by
> >bike but when I got there I found no means to secure my properly. [snip]
> >Am I right or wrong? Should I complain about the lack of facilities?
>
> Study the council's web site and document. You will probably find
> some bullshit about wanting to be the greenest council in the
> universe. It is the second bullet point in my council's list of
> objectives.
>
> Contact the council, explain the difficulty of parking at their
> building, quote the bullshit and enquire what they are doing to
> improve the situation.
>
> --
>   David Hansen, Edinburgh
>  I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
>  http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

And if they say that they are going to put cycle racks in, ask them
where and what kind?  If they want to fob you off they'll get some
wheel benders attached to an unaccessible wall, and claim that they
have provided "excellent cycle-locking facilities".  Insist on
Sheffields close to the front door.

BTW, do they provide car parking space?

Peter.

On 25 Sep, 12:52, al Mossah  wrote:

>
> And if they say that they are going to put cycle racks in, ask them
> where and what kind?  If they want to fob you off they'll get some
> wheel benders attached to an unaccessible wall, and claim that they
> have provided "excellent cycle-locking facilities".  Insist on
> Sheffields close to the front door.
>
> BTW, do they provide car parking space?
>
> Peter.

Yes, the building shares a Euros carpark with a retail unit next door.
Unfortunatly the shops get ansy about me using the bike racks if I'm
not using the shop. I heard tale of one cyclist having their bike
forcibly removed and he was gone for ten minutes!

On Thu, 25 Sep 2008, TrailRat wrote:

> On 25 Sep, 12:52, al Mossah  wrote:
>
>> BTW, do they provide car parking space?
>
> Yes, the building shares a Euros carpark with a retail unit next door. 
> Unfortunatly the shops get ansy about me using the bike racks if I'm not 
> using the shop. I heard tale of one cyclist having their bike forcibly 
> removed and he was gone for ten minutes!

I say do write to complain, and as well as the general complaint, complain 
about this - if the council has some claim on a car park, and this car 
park has bike racks (am i understanding that right), then they should be 
available for people visiting the council.

tom

-- 
The revolution is here. Get against the wall, sunshine. -- Mike Froggatt

On 25 Sep, 16:48, Tom Anderson  wrote:

>
> I say do write to complain, and as well as the general complaint, complain
> about this - if the council has some claim on a car park, and this car
> park has bike racks (am i understanding that right), then they should be
> available for people visiting the council.
>
> tom

The bike racks are across the carpark on the pavement outside the
shops. The council, in the carpark taking up one bay, has four
bikeminder lockers but these lockers are unsecure with no locks and no
means to secure a bike inside them with your own shackles.

On Thu, 25 Sep 2008, TrailRat wrote:

> On 25 Sep, 16:48, Tom Anderson  wrote:
>
>> I say do write to complain, and as well as the general complaint, 
>> complain about this - if the council has some claim on a car park, and 
>> this car park has bike racks (am i understanding that right), then they 
>> should be available for people visiting the council.
>
> The bike racks are across the carpark on the pavement outside the shops.

Were they put in by the shops or the council, do you know?

If they're the shops' racks, then fair enough - and three cheers for them 
for putting them in.

If they're public racks, then members of the public have a right to use 
them regardless of destination.

> The council, in the carpark taking up one bay, has four bikeminder 
> lockers but these lockers are unsecure with no locks and no means to 
> secure a bike inside them with your own shackles.

Really? Wow. That sounds like an *exceptionally* pointless bit of kit!

tom

-- 
The revolution is here. Get against the wall, sunshine. -- Mike Froggatt

On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 11:47:52 -0700 (PDT), TrailRat
 wrote:

>On 25 Sep, 16:48, Tom Anderson  wrote:
>
>>
>> I say do write to complain, and as well as the general complaint, complain
>> about this - if the council has some claim on a car park, and this car
>> park has bike racks (am i understanding that right), then they should be
>> available for people visiting the council.
>>
>> tom
>
>The bike racks are across the carpark on the pavement outside the
>shops.

Blood hell - and they expect you to walk all that way?

Outrageous.

(You could find a lamp post)

--   
you can either promote cycling or promote helmets,the two are
incompatible. (Guy Chapman)

On 25 Sep, 22:23, judith  wrote:

>
> >The bike racks are across the carpark on the pavement outside the
> >shops.
>
> Blood hell - and they expect you to walk all that way?
>
> Outrageous.
>
> (You could find a lamp post)
>
Ahem, Judith I would like to politly ask you to read all the posts I
put especially the one where I said the shops disapproved of the use
unless I am a paying customer!! Thank You!

And if you can get my D-Lock around a lampost outside this building. I
shall bow down in reverance!

TrailRat [Gadgetfreak2000@gmail.com] said:
> Idealy curious about something that maybe you can help with.
> 
> Went to a council run, council owned building today and I went by
> bike. This is an important trip for me because after a brief spell of
> ill health of the mental kind, I'm resolved to get back to the daily
> use of my bike. Anyway enough of that drivel, like I said I went by
> bike but when I got there I found no means to secure my properly. So I
> took it inside and quite reasonably I asked the security minding the
> door if they could keep an eye on it in the lobby. They were a bit
> ansy about it saying I couldn't bring it inside and that I should take
> it outside. They said it wasn't the council problem and he asked me if
> I thought that it was the council's problem to provide secure bike
> racks. I politly replied that it was the council's problem, to which
> he replied that he said it wasn't the council's responsibility if the
> bike got nicked. Now I know that, I know that if I chain my bike up
> outside of anywhere I take the risk and responsibility that bike is
> secure but I thought that someone like a local council should be
> responsible for a secure place for a cyclist to make that judgement!
> 
> Am I right or wrong? Should I complain about the lack of facilities?
> 
> I know even leaving it in the lobby under the watchful eye of security
> I take responsibility for leaving (still locked and shackled but not
> to anything!!) it but I had no other choice as outside was barren of
> any other means to padlock a bike too!
> 

How do you secure your bike when you need to visit a non-council run 
building?

On Sat, 27 Sep 2008 02:08:21 +0100
Yellow  wrote:

> How do you secure your bike when you need to visit a non-council run 
> building?

With considerable difficulty or inconvenience in some cases, but the
point is that councils generally have green/transport policies that are
supposed to encourage cycling (among other things) so they really
should have some awareness and be making an effort.