A friend's interested in getting a wheel with built-in hub dynamo.  After a
bit of searching we've found this one in Germany:
http://bike-components.de/catalog/Wheels/Hub+Dynamo/DH3N71+Nabendynamo+%2B+Rigida+Mach+210+%2B+DT+2%2C0+mm+Laufrad
aka
http://tinyurl.com/3lbka8
or, for a translated version:
http://tinyurl.com/4s898g

The relevant bit is:
- Hubs: Shimano hub direct current generator DH3N710
- Rims: Rigida Mach 210
- Spokes: DT 2.0 mm
- Hole number: 32
The manufacturer of the wheel is 'Vortrieb' (ie 'Propulsion') which seems to
be bike-components' own brand.

It's not too expensive, and has the mid-range DH-3N71 dynamo rather than the
NX20/30 models.  It's for a 700c commuting bike.

I have a few questions:

I don't know a huge amount about rims, and Google finds almost no hits for
'Rigida Mach'.  Anyone heard of them?  I particularly want to find what the
rim width is.  Am I right in assuming these are basic cheap rims (the sort
you'd get on an unbranded 25 quid wheel)?  Or is that likely to be a wierd
typo for a Rigida Zac 21 or Rigida M 21? (The M21 seems to be 36 spoke only)
Oh, and Rigida have the most horrid website...
There are some bikes on the web with 'Mach 210' rims, but no manufacturer
listed - anyone heard of those either?

In an old thread here someone said that now the Shimano dynamos all come
with automatic on/off switches - is this true?  Is the wheelbuilder likely
to keep that switch for himself? I notice they also sell them separately.

The current wheels are both 36 spoke.  Am I right in assuming swapping the
front for a 32 spoke won't cause great problems?

If this comes with as quick release (as most seems to these days), is
it a standard skewer to swap to make it non-QR?  I don't really get the fad
for QR on town bikes given the number of lone wheels chained to stands
around here...

Spokes are spokes are spokes I suppose - is there anything notable about
these?  DT Swiss have various types but I can't tell which these are.  Are
all DT's spokes stainless steel?  I don't like cheap galvanised ones.

Thanks!
Theo

Theo Markettos wrote:
> A friend's interested in getting a wheel with built-in hub dynamo.  After a
> bit of searching we've found this one in Germany:
> http://bike-components.de/catalog/Wheels/Hub+Dynamo/DH3N71+Nabendynamo+%2B+Rigida+Mach+210+%2B+DT+2%2C0+mm+Laufrad
> aka
> http://tinyurl.com/3lbka8
> or, for a translated version:
> http://tinyurl.com/4s898g
> 
> The relevant bit is:
> - Hubs: Shimano hub direct current generator DH3N710
> - Rims: Rigida Mach 210
> - Spokes: DT 2.0 mm
> - Hole number: 32
> The manufacturer of the wheel is 'Vortrieb' (ie 'Propulsion') which seems to
> be bike-components' own brand.
> 
> It's not too expensive, and has the mid-range DH-3N71 dynamo rather than the
> NX20/30 models.  It's for a 700c commuting bike.
> 
> I have a few questions:
> 
> I don't know a huge amount about rims, and Google finds almost no hits for
> 'Rigida Mach'.  Anyone heard of them?  I particularly want to find what the
> rim width is.  Am I right in assuming these are basic cheap rims (the sort
> you'd get on an unbranded 25 quid wheel)?  Or is that likely to be a wierd
> typo for a Rigida Zac 21 or Rigida M 21? (The M21 seems to be 36 spoke only)
> Oh, and Rigida have the most horrid website...
> There are some bikes on the web with 'Mach 210' rims, but no manufacturer
> listed - anyone heard of those either?
> 
> In an old thread here someone said that now the Shimano dynamos all come
> with automatic on/off switches - is this true?  Is the wheelbuilder likely
> to keep that switch for himself? I notice they also sell them separately.
> 
> The current wheels are both 36 spoke.  Am I right in assuming swapping the
> front for a 32 spoke won't cause great problems?
> 
> If this comes with as quick release (as most seems to these days), is
> it a standard skewer to swap to make it non-QR?  I don't really get the fad
> for QR on town bikes given the number of lone wheels chained to stands
> around here...
> 
> Spokes are spokes are spokes I suppose - is there anything notable about
> these?  DT Swiss have various types but I can't tell which these are.  Are
> all DT's spokes stainless steel?  I don't like cheap galvanised ones.

I have an all year round 700C shopping bike, used, abused, crashed and 
cherished.

I've used the DH-3N70 since early this year, smooth, reliable so far, 
but it doesn't have the automatic switch you speak of.  It was also QR, 
which is standard, I've swapped the levers for hex bolts.  The standard 
build for this in Germany would be with stainless spokes, this will be 
with stainless.

My rims are ZAC2000 and I seem to recall finding stamped on them 
somewhere Rigida (or was it Alesa?), anyway, they are older than the hub 
by 18 months and have been absolutely fine for commuting.

I can't recommend the B&M IQ Fly Senso Plus enough, but it may be beyond 
your budget, but any of the Senso lights are a great invention, truly 
fit and forget

	http://www.bumm.de/index-e.html

The extra 4 spokes at the back may have a tendency to overtake the 32 at 
the front.  No, honest, it'll be fine.

Fwiw, 60 euros is about the standard price for wheels with hub dynamos 
in Germany, I suspect legislation has changed recently because there are 
masses on offer at all the LBSs.

Tosspot  wrote:
> I have an all year round 700C shopping bike, used, abused, crashed and 
> cherished.

:-)

> I've used the DH-3N70 since early this year, smooth, reliable so far, 
> but it doesn't have the automatic switch you speak of.  It was also QR, 
> which is standard, I've swapped the levers for hex bolts.  The standard 
> build for this in Germany would be with stainless spokes, this will be 
> with stainless.

Plain old hex bolts from B&Q, or skewers?  Just wondered...

> I can't recommend the B&M IQ Fly Senso Plus enough, but it may be beyond 
> your budget, but any of the Senso lights are a great invention, truly 
> fit and forget

We already have the lights (B&M Lumotec Oval Plus and Toplight Flat Plus) -
they've been used with a battery box until the new bike arrived. 
Unfortunately the LBS who sold the bike didn't really have a clue about hub
dynamos (well, they'd sell one for 100 quid), hence buying a better specced
one from Germany for half the price.

> The extra 4 spokes at the back may have a tendency to overtake the 32 at 
> the front.  No, honest, it'll be fine.
> 
> Fwiw, 60 euros is about the standard price for wheels with hub dynamos 
> in Germany, I suspect legislation has changed recently because there are 
> masses on offer at all the LBSs.

That's the only one I've found with a 3N70-class dynamo - all the others I
found on the web seemed to be 3N30 variants (which I understand have higher
rolling resistance).

Theo

Theo Markettos wrote:
> A friend's interested in getting a wheel with built-in hub dynamo.  After a
> bit of searching we've found this one in Germany:
> http://bike-components.de/catalog/Wheels/Hub+Dynamo/DH3N71+Nabendynamo+%2B+Rigida+Mach+210+%2B+DT+2%2C0+mm+Laufrad
> aka
> http://tinyurl.com/3lbka8
> or, for a translated version:
> http://tinyurl.com/4s898g
> 
> The relevant bit is:
> - Hubs: Shimano hub direct current generator DH3N710
> - Rims: Rigida Mach 210
> - Spokes: DT 2.0 mm
> - Hole number: 32
> The manufacturer of the wheel is 'Vortrieb' (ie 'Propulsion') which seems to
> be bike-components' own brand.
> 
> It's not too expensive, and has the mid-range DH-3N71 dynamo rather than the
> NX20/30 models.  It's for a 700c commuting bike.
> 
> I have a few questions:
> 
> I don't know a huge amount about rims, and Google finds almost no hits for
> 'Rigida Mach'.  Anyone heard of them?  I particularly want to find what the
> rim width is.  Am I right in assuming these are basic cheap rims (the sort
> you'd get on an unbranded 25 quid wheel)?  Or is that likely to be a wierd
> typo for a Rigida Zac 21 or Rigida M 21? (The M21 seems to be 36 spoke only)
> Oh, and Rigida have the most horrid website...
> There are some bikes on the web with 'Mach 210' rims, but no manufacturer
> listed - anyone heard of those either?
> 
> In an old thread here someone said that now the Shimano dynamos all come
> with automatic on/off switches - is this true?  Is the wheelbuilder likely
> to keep that switch for himself? I notice they also sell them separately.
> 
> The current wheels are both 36 spoke.  Am I right in assuming swapping the
> front for a 32 spoke won't cause great problems?
> 
> If this comes with as quick release (as most seems to these days), is
> it a standard skewer to swap to make it non-QR?  I don't really get the fad
> for QR on town bikes given the number of lone wheels chained to stands
> around here...
> 
> Spokes are spokes are spokes I suppose - is there anything notable about
> these?  DT Swiss have various types but I can't tell which these are.  Are
> all DT's spokes stainless steel?  I don't like cheap galvanised ones.

I've just built a pair of wheels with Rigida Nova rims.  They don't take 
much tension before they go into pringle mode.

The dynamo hubs do not have an on/off switch, but you can get one as an 
option.  Most people buy a lamp with a switch, like an IQ Fly N.

It is a standard skewer.

DT Competition (double-butted) are what you want.

Build it 2-cross, not 3-cross.  3-cross will give a bad spoke-rim angle 
bacsue of the large flanges.

Oh, and a 32 spoke front wheel is fine - 36 is overkill unless you use 
front luggage.

Theo Markettos wrote:

> That's the only one I've found with a 3N70-class dynamo - all the others I
> found on the web seemed to be 3N30 variants (which I understand have higher
> rolling resistance).

There is now a DH-3N80, which is the latest version, much ligher than a 
Schmidt SON 28 but not available in the UK.  Try www.roseversand.de.

Theo Markettos wrote:
.......
> The current wheels are both 36 spoke.  Am I right in assuming
> swapping the front for a 32 spoke won't cause great problems?

32 spokes is enough for just about anyone's *front* wheel.

> If this comes with as quick release (as most seems to these days), is
> it a standard skewer to swap to make it non-QR?  I don't really get
> the fad for QR on town bikes given the number of lone wheels chained
> to stands around here...

You can swap the skewer for a "security" one.  Options include allen key or 
pentagon key operated (eg. Tranz X, cheap), and special key (eg. Pitlock, 
expensive).

I use Tranz X pentagon skewers.  You can find them on eBay.

> Spokes are spokes are spokes I suppose - is there anything notable
> about these?

"2.0 mm" means plain guage, so they'll be the Champion model.  Double 
butted, like 1.8/2.0/1.8 DT Competition or Sapim Race, are lighter and more 
fatigue resistant.  But you can't be too fussy if you're not building your 
own wheel - which is an option that needn't be out of the question.

>  DT Swiss have various types but I can't tell which
> these are.  Are all DT's spokes stainless steel?  I don't like cheap
> galvanised ones.

All DT spokes are stainless steel.

Sorry I don't know about Mach rims.

~PB

Pete Biggs  wrote:
> You can swap the skewer for a "security" one.  Options include allen key or 
> pentagon key operated (eg. Tranz X, cheap), and special key (eg. Pitlock, 
> expensive).
> 
> I use Tranz X pentagon skewers.  You can find them on eBay.

Thanks.  Bike-components has the Tranz Xs at EUR14.90 which looks about the
same as the eBay prices.  It does strike me as a bit expensive for what, if
they were coach bolts, would be at most a quid each which was why I wondered
what else was available...

> > Spokes are spokes are spokes I suppose - is there anything notable
> > about these?
> 
> "2.0 mm" means plain guage, so they'll be the Champion model.  Double 
> butted, like 1.8/2.0/1.8 DT Competition or Sapim Race, are lighter and more 
> fatigue resistant.  But you can't be too fussy if you're not building your 
> own wheel - which is an option that needn't be out of the question.

The bike was about 300 quid new, so I imagine we're not talking top quality
parts on it to start with in any case.  I'm sure plain stainless will be OK
:)

I built the wheel for my hub dynamo, so it's not impossible.  But EUR60+post
is probably cheaper than we could buy the parts separately and it saves the
hour or three of fiddling around getting the dishing right.

> All DT spokes are stainless steel.
> 
> Sorry I don't know about Mach rims.

Thanks, that was useful :)

Theo

On Tue, 23 Sep 2008 22:28:47 +0200, "Pete Biggs"
 said in
:

>You can swap the skewer for a "security" one.  Options include allen key or 
>pentagon key operated (eg. Tranz X, cheap), and special key (eg. Pitlock, 
>expensive).

I do this.  Allen keys are enough to deter the chavs, anything more
complex and they will get the bike anyway, I reckon.  Of course, the
ideal thing is to be able to fold your bike up and take it with you
rather than leave it lying around in plain view.  Especially if you
bike fold-unfold-fold-unfolds really small, and has a Schmidt hub
dynamo.  I believe there may be someone in this very group who owns
such a thing...

Guy
-- 
May contain traces of irony.  Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

Theo Markettos wrote:
> Pete Biggs  wrote:
>> You can swap the skewer for a "security" one.  Options include allen
>> key or pentagon key operated (eg. Tranz X, cheap), and special key
>> (eg. Pitlock, expensive).
>>
>> I use Tranz X pentagon skewers.  You can find them on eBay.
>
> Thanks.  Bike-components has the Tranz Xs at EUR14.90 which looks
> about the same as the eBay prices.  It does strike me as a bit
> expensive for what, if they were coach bolts, would be at most a quid
> each which was why I wondered what else was available...

I think the set is very reasonably priced considering that the "bolts" are 
not ordinary, and you get anodised alloy nuts and a key as well.  It's good 
quality stuff, and they don't sell millions of them.

You can pay more for a lot less in the bike world.   How about twenty quid 
for a set of brake pads (from SwissStop).  That's just four tiny bits of 
rubbery stuff.

I'm lucky if I can find a good bar of chocolate for a quid!

~PB

"Just zis Guy, you know?"  writes:

> On Tue, 23 Sep 2008 22:28:47 +0200, "Pete Biggs"
>  said in
> :
>
>>You can swap the skewer for a "security" one.  Options include allen key or 
>>pentagon key operated (eg. Tranz X, cheap), and special key (eg. Pitlock, 
>>expensive).
>
> I do this.  Allen keys are enough to deter the chavs, anything more
> complex and they will get the bike anyway, I reckon.  Of course, the

I routeinesly take the front wheel out and put the lock through it,
the back wheel and the frame.  Going by the number of people who've
commented that my bike has had its wheel nicked, I speculate that
this itself has something of a deterrent effect - a "broken" bike
attracts less covetuous attention than an intact one.

Of course it's not something you want to do on a nice bike as it does
tend to scratch the fork ends.


-dan

Theo Markettos wrote:
> Tosspot  wrote:
>> I have an all year round 700C shopping bike, used, abused, crashed and 
>> cherished.
> 
> :-)
> 
>> I've used the DH-3N70 since early this year, smooth, reliable so far, 
>> but it doesn't have the automatic switch you speak of.  It was also QR, 
>> which is standard, I've swapped the levers for hex bolts.  The standard 
>> build for this in Germany would be with stainless spokes, this will be 
>> with stainless.
> 
> Plain old hex bolts from B&Q, or skewers?  Just wondered...

With skewers.

>> I can't recommend the B&M IQ Fly Senso Plus enough, but it may be beyond 
>> your budget, but any of the Senso lights are a great invention, truly 
>> fit and forget
> 
> We already have the lights (B&M Lumotec Oval Plus and Toplight Flat Plus) -
> they've been used with a battery box until the new bike arrived. 
> Unfortunately the LBS who sold the bike didn't really have a clue about hub
> dynamos (well, they'd sell one for 100 quid), hence buying a better specced
> one from Germany for half the price.
> 
>> The extra 4 spokes at the back may have a tendency to overtake the 32 at 
>> the front.  No, honest, it'll be fine.
>>
>> Fwiw, 60 euros is about the standard price for wheels with hub dynamos 
>> in Germany, I suspect legislation has changed recently because there are 
>> masses on offer at all the LBSs.
> 
> That's the only one I've found with a 3N70-class dynamo - all the others I
> found on the web seemed to be 3N30 variants (which I understand have higher
> rolling resistance).

You could be right, I've never peered at one closely enough, but the 
point is, you're in the right ballpark no matter what.

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:

> Of course, the
> ideal thing is to be able to fold your bike up and take it with you
> rather than leave it lying around in plain view.  Especially if you
> bike fold-unfold-fold-unfolds really small, and has a Schmidt hub
> dynamo.  I believe there may be someone in this very group who owns
> such a thing...

How much do Brompton pay you for astroturfing, Guy? ;-)

Pete Biggs wrote:
> Theo Markettos wrote:
> .......
>> The current wheels are both 36 spoke.  Am I right in assuming
>> swapping the front for a 32 spoke won't cause great problems?
> 
> 32 spokes is enough for just about anyone's *front* wheel.
> 
>> If this comes with as quick release (as most seems to these days), is
>> it a standard skewer to swap to make it non-QR?  I don't really get
>> the fad for QR on town bikes given the number of lone wheels chained
>> to stands around here...
> 
> You can swap the skewer for a "security" one.  Options include allen key or 
> pentagon key operated (eg. Tranz X, cheap), and special key (eg. Pitlock, 
> expensive).

I hate those pentagon ones, you need to keep, and know the whereabouts 
of the bloody thing, I tried it once, went back to standard hex.


<snip>

"Theo Markettos" <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> a écrit:

> I don't know a huge amount about rims, and Google finds almost no
> hits for 'Rigida Mach'.  Anyone heard of them?  I particularly want to
> find what the rim width is.

Mach1 is a French wheel manufacturer with a factory near St Etienne:

http://www.mach1.fr/composants/index.html

I'm not aware of any connection to Rigida, but their website lists a 210 
model:

24.4mm wide, 18mm deep, 530g, stainless single eyelet

James Thomson

Theo Markettos wrote:
> A friend's interested in getting a wheel with built-in hub dynamo.

> - Hubs: Shimano hub direct current generator DH3N710

> In an old thread here someone said that now the Shimano dynamos all
> come with automatic on/off switches - is this true?

I don't think they all come with a switch.  The Shimano switch is an 
on/off/auto switch which bolts to the fork crown.  However, lamps with a 
built-in switch are probably neater and easier.


> The current wheels are both 36 spoke.  Am I right in assuming
> swapping the front for a 32 spoke won't cause great problems?

Shouldn't be an issue unless you are very heavy on wheels.

> If this comes with as quick release (as most seems to these days), is
> it a standard skewer to swap to make it non-QR?  I don't really get
> the fad for QR on town bikes given the number of lone wheels chained
> to stands around here...

Horses for courses; I like having a QR on my dynamo wheel, I can swap it out 
for a plain in a couple of seconds.  But it does depend on the theft risk 
where you lock your bicycle.


- Nigel


-- 
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

Am Tue, 23 Sep 2008 22:27:06 +0100 schrieb Zog The Undeniable:

> Theo Markettos wrote:
> 
>> That's the only one I've found with a 3N70-class dynamo - all the others I
>> found on the web seemed to be 3N30 variants (which I understand have higher
>> rolling resistance).
> 
> There is now a DH-3N80, which is the latest version, much ligher than a 
> Schmidt SON 28 but not available in the UK.  Try www.roseversand.de.

I can recommend the wheels offered by Roseversand. I've been using wheels
from their own brand Xtreme with the rim SARI T-19 R since 2003, at that
time still equipped with the cheaper DH-3N30 hub. The rims are a bit
heavier than others but very reliable. The wheel is very well built. I've
read comments from people using those successfully on tandems.
The price is a bit higher than at bike-components.de though...

Andreas

Tosspot wrote:
>> You can swap the skewer for a "security" one.  Options include allen
>> key or pentagon key operated (eg. Tranz X, cheap), and special key
>> (eg. Pitlock, expensive).
>
> I hate those pentagon ones, you need to keep, and know the whereabouts
> of the bloody thing, I tried it once, went back to standard hex.

I need to keep and know the whereabouts of my front door key ;-)

~PB

Pete Biggs wrote:
> Tosspot wrote:
>>> You can swap the skewer for a "security" one.  Options include allen
>>> key or pentagon key operated (eg. Tranz X, cheap), and special key
>>> (eg. Pitlock, expensive).
>> I hate those pentagon ones, you need to keep, and know the whereabouts
>> of the bloody thing, I tried it once, went back to standard hex.
> 
> I need to keep and know the whereabouts of my front door key ;-)
> 
> ~PB 

/Obviously/ you should just replace the lock with an Allen bolt, problem
solved! ;-)

Pete.
-- 
Peter Clinch                    Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637   Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177              Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk     http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

James Thomson  wrote:
> Mach1 is a French wheel manufacturer with a factory near St Etienne:
> 
> http://www.mach1.fr/composants/index.html
> 
> I'm not aware of any connection to Rigida, but their website lists a 210 
> model:
> 
> 24.4mm wide, 18mm deep, 530g, stainless single eyelet

Ah thanks, that sounds much more plausible.  I wondered if there was a typo
somewhere in the description but didn't have the inside knowledge :)
The website is 100% Flash, no wonder I couldn't Google it...

Do you think it's a reasonable rim?

Theo

On 23 Sep, 20:25, Theo Markettos <theom+n...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
wrote:

>
> In an old thread here someone said that now the Shimano dynamos all come
> with automatic on/off switches - is this true?  Is the wheelbuilder likely
> to keep that switch for himself? I notice they also sell them separately.
>

The last Shimano  one I had built into a wheel (and the one I built
myself before that) both came with the Shimano auto switch. From
previous reports people said that there was too much electronics built
into it for its own good and failing over-voltage protection circuits
had caused more than one switch to over protect itself and not switch
on.

Accordingly, I binned both auto switches and rely on the protection
and switch on the B&M lights.

Anyone got a good story about the switches ?

"TimHenderson"  wrote in message 
news:0d094856-2eef-4086-b5e2-0f4f91710d8c@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On 23 Sep, 20:25, Theo Markettos <theom+n...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> In an old thread here someone said that now the Shimano dynamos all come
>> with automatic on/off switches - is this true?  Is the wheelbuilder 
>> likely
>> to keep that switch for himself? I notice they also sell them separately.
>>
>
> The last Shimano  one I had built into a wheel (and the one I built
> myself before that) both came with the Shimano auto switch. From
> previous reports people said that there was too much electronics built
> into it for its own good and failing over-voltage protection circuits
> had caused more than one switch to over protect itself and not switch
> on.
>
> Accordingly, I binned both auto switches and rely on the protection
> and switch on the B&M lights.
>
> Anyone got a good story about the switches ?

The two here are still working fine.

cheers,
clive

Quoting  Just zis Guy, you know? <guy.chapman+usenet-reply@spamcop.net>:
>rather than leave it lying around in plain view.  Especially if you
>bike fold-unfold-fold-unfolds really small, and has a Schmidt hub
>dynamo.  I believe there may be someone in this very group who owns
>such a thing...

I do - maybe you should get one?
-- 
David Damerell  Kill the tomato!
Today is Friday, September.

"Theo Markettos" <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> a écrit:

>> 24.4mm wide, 18mm deep, 530g, stainless single eyelet

> Do you think it's a reasonable rim?

It's not what I'd pick if I were looking for a rim on its own, but front 
wheels tend to have quite an easy life, and the package price is certainly 
attractive.

Personally I'd spend the extra on the A319/Sapim Race combination, or more 
likely build my own around something like a Rigida Sputnik:

http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m2b9s116p67

or maybe one of these:

http://www.roseversand.de/output/controller.aspx?cid=156&detail=10&detail2=2321

James Thomson

James Thomson  wrote:
> It's not what I'd pick if I were looking for a rim on its own, but front 
> wheels tend to have quite an easy life, and the package price is certainly 
> attractive.
> 
> Personally I'd spend the extra on the A319/Sapim Race combination, or more 
> likely build my own around something like a Rigida Sputnik:
> 
> http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m2b9s116p67
> 
> or maybe one of these:
> 
> http://www.roseversand.de/output/controller.aspx?cid=156&detail=10&detail2=2321

I've got some Mavic MA3s on the back of my bike - how do you reckon the
Mach1 210 or the above would compare?  What are good features to look for in
a rim? What's the difference between aluminium rims and alloy (Mach1 sell
both)?

Thanks!
Theo

Theo Markettos wrote:
> James Thomson  wrote:
>> It's not what I'd pick if I were looking for a rim on its own, but
>> front wheels tend to have quite an easy life, and the package price
>> is certainly attractive.
>>
>> Personally I'd spend the extra on the A319/Sapim Race combination,
>> or more likely build my own around something like a Rigida Sputnik:
>>
>> http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m2b9s116p67
>>
>> or maybe one of these:
>>
>> http://www.roseversand.de/output/controller.aspx?cid=156&detail=10&detail2=2321
>
> I've got some Mavic MA3s on the back of my bike - how do you reckon
> the Mach1 210 or the above would compare?  What are good features to
> look for in a rim?

Double eyelets is generally a good feature to look for, as rims with these 
tend to take higher spoke tension.

MA3 is a bog standard rim with single eyelets.  I wouldn't worry about using 
something like this for a low-budget front wheel.  In fact one of my front 
wheels is built on an MA3, and it's been fine.

A wider rim would be better if you are going to use a tyre bigger than 32mm 
(or arguably 28mm), and an altogether stronger one if you're expecting to 
violently slam it into things.  Otherwise it's not likely to matter.

> What's the difference between aluminium rims and
> alloy (Mach1 sell both)?


They're all aluminium alloy.

~PB

"Theo Markettos" <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> a écrit:

> I've got some Mavic MA3s on the back of my bike - how do you
> reckon the Mach1 210 or the above would compare?  What are
> good features to look for in a rim?

The MA3 is an inexpensive, fairly light single-eyelet road rim. The Mach1 is 
broader and correspondingly heavier, but not altogether dissimilar in 
design. I'd guess they're of broadly comparable quality, but that's only a 
guess - I haven't used an MA3 or seen a Mach1 210.

For a commuting or touring rim, I'd look for double eyelets (the steel 
insert spans both walls of the internal box section, spreading the spoke 
load to the inner wall), a conservative weight (implying more material on 
the rim walls and less risk of cracking), a sturdy box section, tall, 
straight braking surfaces, and 36 spokes. On those criteria, the Alesa 
Sputnik is close to my ideal. Perhaps just a touch heavy.

There are other features that you won't see listed - general roundness, 
quality of finish, the straightness of the joint, and the hardness of the 
alloy used in the extrusion. These do vary from manufacturer to 
manufacturer, and from rim to rim. I've had a few Mavics with poor weld 
alignment, though they're generally good.

> What's the difference between aluminium rims and alloy
> (Mach1 sell both)?

In cycling, "alloy" is generally used as a shorthand for aluminium alloy, of 
which many types with quite widely varying properties are used.

http://www.matweb.com/search/QuickText.aspx?SearchText=aluminum%20alloy

James Thomson

James Thomson  wrote:
> The MA3 is an inexpensive, fairly light single-eyelet road rim. The Mach1
> is broader and correspondingly heavier, but not altogether dissimilar in
> design. I'd guess they're of broadly comparable quality, but that's only a
> guess - I haven't used an MA3 or seen a Mach1 210.

Thanks everyone.  I think this wheel sounds good for the price.  At some
later point there's always the option to upgrade the rim and/or spokes if
someone feels like some wheelbuilding.  In fact it's cheaper to buy the
wheel than it is to buy the dynamo separately from the same place!

Theo

On Tue, 23 Sep 2008 23:55:06 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
 wrote:

>On Tue, 23 Sep 2008 22:28:47 +0200, "Pete Biggs"
> said in
>:
>
>>You can swap the skewer for a "security" one.  Options include allen key or 
>>pentagon key operated (eg. Tranz X, cheap), and special key (eg. Pitlock, 
>>expensive).
>
>I do this.  Allen keys are enough to deter the chavs, anything more
>complex and they will get the bike anyway, I reckon.  Of course, the
>ideal thing is to be able to fold your bike up and take it with you
>rather than leave it lying around in plain view.  Especially if you
>bike fold-unfold-fold-unfolds really small, and has a Schmidt hub
>dynamo.  I believe there may be someone in this very group who owns
>such a thing...
>
>Guy

You are an unbelievable arse.

I believe that there are some (or at least one) in this group who is
full of his own importance and can't help "bragging" at the slightest
opportunity.

How's the list of "famous people I have met" - added to it this week?



--   
I encourage my children to wear helmets. (Guy Chapman)
Some evidence shows that helmeted cyclists are more likely to hit
their  heads. (Guy Chapman)
I have never said that I encourage my children to wear helmets. (Guy 
Chapman) - proven to be an outright lie.
He then quickly changed his web page - but "forgot" to change the date
of last amendment

Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Thanks everyone.  I think this wheel sounds good for the price.  At some
> later point there's always the option to upgrade the rim and/or spokes if
> someone feels like some wheelbuilding.  In fact it's cheaper to buy the
> wheel than it is to buy the dynamo separately from the same place!

I ordered the bits today, and will use my German friend to shuffle some
money into their German bank account (they don't take cards).  Will post
back here how it goes...

Theo

"Zog The Undeniable"  a écrit:

> Build it 2-cross, not 3-cross.  3-cross will give a bad spoke-rim
> angle bacsue of the large flanges.

Mine's 3x (on a 32h 26" wheel) and the angles aren't too extreme. Certainly 
I had no problems with the build or in use.

James Thomson

Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> I ordered the bits today, and will use my German friend to shuffle some
> money into their German bank account (they don't take cards).  Will post
> back here how it goes...

Sigh.  Sadly it turns out that the EUR60 was a catalogue error and doesn't
actually exist :(

Theo