Hi

I need some lights for a mountain bike for the winter and I'm a bit
confused about those on offer that seem to range from about 10 pounds
to over 600 and all of which seem to describe how bright they are in
different ways.

My journey to work is about 4 miles along an unlit disused railway
line (a rough surface but not extreme off road) and about half a mile
at each end on the road which has street lighting.

Can anyone recommend me some lights please that are powerful enough to
use along the unlit part (how many watts / lumens do I need for this?)
and also legal for the road, and given this as cheap as possible.
Ideally they should be easy to remove from the bike when not in use
and use a power source that can be recharged easily.

Some of the lights I have seen use LEDs, some traditional lightbulbs.
Is there any advantage to either?

Thanks

Richard

On 22 Sep, 16:36, Richard  wrote:
> Hi
>
> I need some lights for a mountain bike for the winter and I'm a bit
> confused about those on offer that seem to range from about 10 pounds
> to over 600 and all of which seem to describe how bright they are in
> different ways.
>
> My journey to work is about 4 miles along an unlit disused railway
> line (a rough surface but not extreme off road) and about half a mile
> at each end on the road which has street lighting.
>
> Can anyone recommend me some lights please that are powerful enough to
> use along the unlit part (how many watts / lumens do I need for this?)
> and also legal for the road, and given this as cheap as possible.
> Ideally they should be easy to remove from the bike when not in use
> and use a power source that can be recharged easily.
>
> Some of the lights I have seen use LEDs, some traditional lightbulbs.
> Is there any advantage to either?
>
> Thanks
>
> Richard

LED's seem to be the way forward. You can get some pretty good
Cateye's that'll light up in the pitch black, get some rechargeable
batteries and charge them at work :)

This one is pretty good .. .Cateye HL-EL530

I've got Lumicycle Halogen, and great lights, but quite heavy and not
really getting the usage I would want for them anymore. So am
considering eBaying them.

And to slightly hijack the thread, if anyone can recommend a small
blinky for putting on my Brompton? It may get some light usage on
towpaths (or Richmond Park at night), so need good enough to light up
a dark path. However, my main requirement is for them to sit flush on
the handlebars for easy closing of the bike. Was looking at "knog
gekko" lights, but never seen them in the flesh ... anyone?

On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:36:29 -0700, Richard wrote:
> Can anyone recommend me some lights please that are powerful enough to
> use along the unlit part (how many watts / lumens do I need for this?)
> and also legal for the road, and given this as cheap as possible.
> Ideally they should be easy to remove from the bike when not in use
> and use a power source that can be recharged easily.

I've been out with just my front LED (Tesco finest, middle LED not working
so only 4 rather than 5) and could see enough but the old railway line I
was riding on was pretty well surfaced unlike some others.  Lights cost
me £13 and use AAA batteries - rechargeables work fine.

I've got an old 10W halogen cateye (£60 new about 3 years ago) and that
would be more than adequate for you!  Requires special battery and charger.

A headtorch may be another option.

peter

On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:36:29 -0700, Richard strung these words together:

> Can anyone recommend me some lights please that are powerful enough to
> use along the unlit part (how many watts / lumens do I need for this?)
> and also legal for the road, and given this as cheap as possible.
> Ideally they should be easy to remove from the bike when not in use and
> use a power source that can be recharged easily.
> 
> Some of the lights I have seen use LEDs, some traditional lightbulbs. Is
> there any advantage to either?

LEDs are much more efficient than incans but the high output ones (Cree 
XREs, SSC P7s, comparitatively old-school Luxeons) need quite a bit of 
heatsinking to keep from frying if they're being run at anything like 
nominal output for any length of time.

A word on output.

For a seeing-where-you're-going light on (for example) a stretch of 
pavement that's not completely pitch black, but not deliberately lit, I'd 
say you need at least 120 lumens to cast a pool of light about three 
meters in front of you (assuming a handlebar mount)

For less than £45 you will be able to find a torch (and mounting bracket - 
twofish lockblocks are good) with about 130 - 200 lumens of output and 
over one hour of runtime and (probably) enough heatsinking to cope /and/ 
that runs on AA cells (though you're better off going for a R123 setup for 
200lm plus), that'll fit in your trouser pocket.

Or, there are LED dropins with PR-bases that'll probably fit straight in 
your existing light (just pick one for the right number of cells), from 
SMJLEDs (I have one of these and it'll put out the same pattern and amount 
of light as a standard Xenon 2 cell bulb for 20 hours or more, though it 
has a pronounced blue tint) to CREE/Seoul dropins (again, heatsinking can 
be a problem), all of which, you'll be able to pick up for ~£20.


[/essay]

Richard wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I need some lights for a mountain bike for the winter and I'm a bit
> confused about those on offer that seem to range from about 10 pounds
> to over 600 and all of which seem to describe how bright they are in
> different ways.
> 
> My journey to work is about 4 miles along an unlit disused railway
> line (a rough surface but not extreme off road) and about half a mile
> at each end on the road which has street lighting.
> 
> Can anyone recommend me some lights please that are powerful enough to
> use along the unlit part (how many watts / lumens do I need for this?)
> and also legal for the road, and given this as cheap as possible.
> Ideally they should be easy to remove from the bike when not in use
> and use a power source that can be recharged easily.
> 
> Some of the lights I have seen use LEDs, some traditional lightbulbs.
> Is there any advantage to either?

How long does this five mile commute take, and will it be dark on both 
to and from work?

IMHO traditional light bulbs are pretty much obsolete/deprecated as far 
as cycle lights are concerned, LEDs are more efficient (batteries last 
longer for the same light output).

It is very difficult to get a decent light nowadays that is road legal, 
very few cyclists riding at night with lights have fully road legal 
lights. The best thing to do is have a decent set of lights, and hope 
plod does not know any better.

Arguably the best solution for commuting lights is a dynamo system, 
pref. a hub dynamo. I have one of these on my Trek.

On my ridge back I have a Cateye Single shot plus (HL EL610RC) which is 
excellent for railway paths and the like. (about 65-90 ukp). Other 
people recommend the EL530, which can be got for about 35ukp, however I 
have heard complaints about the 530.

"Richard"  wrote in message 
news:6329d5c7-93b7-41b4-bc8b-e35ec9120e92@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> Hi
>
> I need some lights for a mountain bike for the winter and I'm a bit
> confused about those on offer that seem to range from about 10 pounds
> to over 600 and all of which seem to describe how bright they are in
> different ways.
>
> My journey to work is about 4 miles along an unlit disused railway
> line (a rough surface but not extreme off road) and about half a mile
> at each end on the road which has street lighting.
>
> Can anyone recommend me some lights please that are powerful enough to
> use along the unlit part (how many watts / lumens do I need for this?)
> and also legal for the road, and given this as cheap as possible.
> Ideally they should be easy to remove from the bike when not in use
> and use a power source that can be recharged easily.
>
> Some of the lights I have seen use LEDs, some traditional lightbulbs.
> Is there any advantage to either?
>
> Thanks
>
> Richard
>
>

I have used these last winter for a 12 mile commute along dark country 
lanes:

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=15442

and found them pretty good, although the lights are a little fiddly to 
attach and remove (I just attach and leave them there all winter). The 
Cateye EL530 is also a good option as someone else mentioned.

Martin  writes:

> On my ridge back I have a Cateye Single shot plus (HL EL610RC) which
> is excellent for railway paths and the like. (about 65-90 ukp). Other
> people recommend the EL530, which can be got for about 35ukp, however
> I have heard complaints about the 530.

I had an EL530 until it stopped working for no obvious reason.  I
replaced it with a Fenix torch, which is one of the Cree-based lights
that was referred to upthread, and about the same price.  The Fenix
torch far outclasses it for light output and (I think) for spread -
the EL530 seemed to have a very small bright spot and a wash around it
that wasn't actually much cop.

http://www.coruskate.net/Order_of_the_Fenix is what I said about it
two weeks ago.

http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/fenix_l1dce-l2dce.htm is a
proper review done by actual (or at least, apparent) experts


-dan

Richard wrote:
> Hi
>
> I need some lights for a mountain bike for the winter and I'm a bit
> confused about those on offer that seem to range from about 10 pounds
> to over 600 and all of which seem to describe how bright they are in
> different ways.
>
> My journey to work is about 4 miles along an unlit disused railway
> line (a rough surface but not extreme off road) and about half a mile
> at each end on the road which has street lighting.
>
> Can anyone recommend me some lights please that are powerful enough to
> use along the unlit part (how many watts / lumens do I need for this?)
> and also legal for the road, and given this as cheap as possible.
> Ideally they should be easy to remove from the bike when not in use
> and use a power source that can be recharged easily.
>
> Some of the lights I have seen use LEDs, some traditional lightbulbs.
> Is there any advantage to either?
>
> Thanks
>
> Richard

Where would these feature on a scale of crap to great: 
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=14825 ?

-- 
Simmo
Cheap protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees
the opportunity in every difficulty." Sir Winston Churchill

On Tue, 23 Sep 2008 06:48:24 +0100, "Bully"
 wrote:

>Richard wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> I need some lights for a mountain bike for the winter and I'm a bit
>> confused about those on offer that seem to range from about 10 pounds
>> to over 600 and all of which seem to describe how bright they are in
>> different ways.
>>
>> My journey to work is about 4 miles along an unlit disused railway
>> line (a rough surface but not extreme off road) and about half a mile
>> at each end on the road which has street lighting.
>>
>> Can anyone recommend me some lights please that are powerful enough to
>> use along the unlit part (how many watts / lumens do I need for this?)
>> and also legal for the road, and given this as cheap as possible.
>> Ideally they should be easy to remove from the bike when not in use
>> and use a power source that can be recharged easily.
>>
>> Some of the lights I have seen use LEDs, some traditional lightbulbs.
>> Is there any advantage to either?
>
>Where would these feature on a scale of crap to great: 
>http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=14825 ?

The reviews rate them as great.

Richard wrote:

> My journey to work is about 4 miles along an unlit disused railway
> line (a rough surface but not extreme off road) and about half a mile
> at each end on the road which has street lighting.

As you're going over a rough surface, consider the strength of the 
fastener and weight of the light. It's just possible that the heavy 
cheap light could work free after day after day of jostling. For this 
reason, an LED setup with smaller batteries would probably be better.

-- 
http://www.unmusic.co.uk Michael Reed -- technology, gender, and geek 
culture freelance writer

Tom Crispin wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Sep 2008 06:48:24 +0100, "Bully"
>  wrote:
>
>> Richard wrote:
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> I need some lights for a mountain bike for the winter and I'm a bit
>>> confused about those on offer that seem to range from about 10
>>> pounds to over 600 and all of which seem to describe how bright
>>> they are in different ways.
>>>
>>> My journey to work is about 4 miles along an unlit disused railway
>>> line (a rough surface but not extreme off road) and about half a
>>> mile at each end on the road which has street lighting.
>>>
>>> Can anyone recommend me some lights please that are powerful enough
>>> to use along the unlit part (how many watts / lumens do I need for
>>> this?) and also legal for the road, and given this as cheap as
>>> possible. Ideally they should be easy to remove from the bike when
>>> not in use and use a power source that can be recharged easily.
>>>
>>> Some of the lights I have seen use LEDs, some traditional
>>> lightbulbs. Is there any advantage to either?
>>
>> Where would these feature on a scale of crap to great:
>> http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=14825 ?
>
> The reviews rate them as great.

Ah, these reviews: 
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Reviews.aspx?ModelID=14825 :) ?

Thanks.

-- 
Simmo
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees
the opportunity in every difficulty." Sir Winston Churchill

On 22 Sep, 23:33, "Adam Lea"  wrote:
> I have used these last winter for a 12 mile commute along dark country
> lanes:
>
> http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=15442
>
> and found them pretty good, although the lights are a little fiddly to
> attach and remove (I just attach and leave them there all winter).

Ditto.  I used a similar older model of them all winter on an unlit
towpath commute.  You can point one a way ahead to spot stuff in
advance and the other so it lights closer to your front wheel to spot
potholes and other bad stuff.  Very useful for stormy nights when
there's branches fallen across the path.

I find halogen light is nicer to see by than LED, which is a bit
ghostly IMO.  But I've not tried the more recent and high powered LEDs.

On 22 Sep, 23:00, Martin  wrote:
> It is very difficult to get a decent light nowadays that is road legal,
> very few cyclists riding at night with lights have fully road legal
> lights. The best thing to do is have a decent set of lights, and hope
> plod does not know any better.

Are you aware that blinkies have been legal for a while now?

In article , POHB wrote:
>On 22 Sep, 23:00, Martin  wrote:
>> It is very difficult to get a decent light nowadays that is road legal,
>> very few cyclists riding at night with lights have fully road legal
>> lights. The best thing to do is have a decent set of lights, and hope
>> plod does not know any better.
>
>Are you aware that blinkies have been legal for a while now?

I don't know about the OP, but I'd argue that for a front light on an 
unlit road then a blinky is not a decent light, so that's irrelevent to 
the ease of finding a decent road legal light (but not to the number of 
cyclists who are legal in town under streetlights).

elyob wrote:

> And to slightly hijack the thread, if anyone can recommend a small
> blinky for putting on my Brompton? It may get some light usage on
> towpaths (or Richmond Park at night), so need good enough to light up
> a dark path. However, my main requirement is for them to sit flush on
> the handlebars for easy closing of the bike. Was looking at "knog
> gekko" lights, but never seen them in the flesh ... anyone?

I used to use a flat ovalish thing from Smart. Unfortunately the button 
fell off (my fault!) Looking around for another I seem that buth Smart 
and Cat-Eye do similar ones. The Cat-Eye is brighter but the Smart also 
functions as a reflector if you need that.

These is the sort of thing I mean:

http://www.ukbikestore.co.uk/Product/214/SMART_LAM401WW/ukbs/smart-1-led-3-function-front-light-ultra-bright.html
http://www.ukbikestore.co.uk/Product/214/LAM405F/ukbs/smart-5-led-front-light-3-function.html


Colin

Bully wrote:

> Where would these feature on a scale of crap to great:
> http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=14825 ?

I have the 5-LED version of that (Polaris II).  I rate it as great for urban 
use and as an emergency backup for unlit roads.  You'd want something 
brighter for regular use on unlit roads and paths, though.

~PB

Alan Braggins wrote:
> In article , POHB wrote:
>> On 22 Sep, 23:00, Martin  wrote:
>>> It is very difficult to get a decent light nowadays that is road legal,
>>> very few cyclists riding at night with lights have fully road legal
>>> lights. The best thing to do is have a decent set of lights, and hope
>>> plod does not know any better.
>> Are you aware that blinkies have been legal for a while now?

If a blinky has a steady mode, it still has to be BS6102/3 compliant, 
and have the BS stamped on the lit. AFAIK there is only one rear LED lit 
that is legal as a primary light, the cateye TL-AU100BS[2], and I do not 
know of any front LED lits that are legal.

Of course you could build your own blink only lits, that would be legal.

> I don't know about the OP, but I'd argue that for a front light on an 
> unlit road then a blinky is not a decent light, so that's irrelevent to 
> the ease of finding a decent road legal light (but not to the number of 
> cyclists who are legal in town under streetlights).

[1]
http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=4071
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehicles/vssafety/guidanceaboutlightsonpedalbi4556

[2]
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product-Cateye-Cateye-TL-AU100BS-6-LED-Rear-Light-with-integral-reflector-BS-6102-3-Approved-561.htm

Alan Braggins wrote:
> In article
> ,
> POHB wrote:
>> On 22 Sep, 23:00, Martin  wrote:
>>> It is very difficult to get a decent light nowadays that is road
>>> legal, very few cyclists riding at night with lights have fully
>>> road legal lights. The best thing to do is have a decent set of
>>> lights, and hope plod does not know any better.
>>
>> Are you aware that blinkies have been legal for a while now?
>
> I don't know about the OP, but I'd argue that for a front light on an
> unlit road then a blinky is not a decent light, so that's irrelevent
> to the ease of finding a decent road legal light (but not to the number
> of cyclists who are legal in town under streetlights).

It's not irrelevent because you can have a little non-decent light to make 
yourself legal *in addition* to a more powerful light that wouldn't be legal 
on its own.

However, I'm not sure blinkies with a constant mode count.  Nearly all 
flashing LED cycle lights on the market have a constant mode.

~PB

In article , Pete Biggs wrote:
>Alan Braggins wrote:
>> POHB wrote:
>>> Are you aware that blinkies have been legal for a while now?
>>
>> I don't know about the OP, but I'd argue that for a front light on an
>> unlit road then a blinky is not a decent light, so that's irrelevent
>> to the ease of finding a decent road legal light (but not to the number
>> of cyclists who are legal in town under streetlights).
>
>It's not irrelevent because you can have a little non-decent light to make 
>yourself legal *in addition* to a more powerful light that wouldn't be legal 
>on its own.

Point.
 
>However, I'm not sure blinkies with a constant mode count.  Nearly all 
>flashing LED cycle lights on the market have a constant mode.

They don't count, even if used in flashing mode. So in fact it probably
doesn't affect the legality of most blinky-only users after all.

However http://www.2pure.co.uk/Reelight-SL120-Front-Rear-Set-Hub-Gears
implies the Reelite lights powered by spoke mounted magnets are bright
enough to qualify, and they are flashing mode only (at least some models
are).

Alan Braggins wrote:

> However http://www.2pure.co.uk/Reelight-SL120-Front-Rear-Set-Hub-Gears
> implies the Reelite lights powered by spoke mounted magnets are bright
> enough to qualify, and they are flashing mode only (at least some models
> are).

I keep forgetting about Reelites.

There is a CTC review on the same website:
http://www.2pure.co.uk/Reelight-SL120-UK-CTC-Review-12-07

The main things for the SL120 version are a 2Hz flash rate, with a 29cd 
front lit, and 10 cd rear. (i.e. legal for the UK)

I doubt the cheaper SL100 version is probably not legal in this country, 
as the flash rate is proportional to speed. Once you hit about 10mph, 
they will flash faster than 4Hz, and will be illegal.

The SL150 version is a steady light, and won't be suitable as a primary 
lit unless stamped as such.

I still have never seen any of these in the wild, only in bike shops and 
on the web.

Martin.

Martin   wrote:
>
>If a blinky has a steady mode, it still has to be BS6102/3 compliant, 
>and have the BS stamped on the lit. AFAIK there is only one rear LED lit 
>that is legal as a primary light, the cateye TL-AU100BS[2], and I do not 
>know of any front LED lits that are legal.

I believe the Cateye EL300 is:
http://www.rutlandcycling.com/1691/Cateye-EL300-AU100-BS-Front---Rear-Light-Set.html

-- 
Andrew Mobbs - http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~andrewm/

On Sep 22, 4:36 pm, Richard  wrote:
> Hi
>
> I need some lights for a mountain bike for the winter and I'm a bit
> confused about those on offer that seem to range from about 10 pounds
> to over 600 and all of which seem to describe how bright they are in
> different ways.
>
> My journey to work is about 4 miles along an unlit disused railway
> line (a rough surface but not extreme off road) and about half a mile
> at each end on the road which has street lighting.
>
> Can anyone recommend me some lights please that are powerful enough to
> use along the unlit part (how many watts / lumens do I need for this?)
> and also legal for the road, and given this as cheap as possible.
> Ideally they should be easy to remove from the bike when not in use
> and use a power source that can be recharged easily.
>
> Some of the lights I have seen use LEDs, some traditional lightbulbs.
> Is there any advantage to either?
>

A 1W LED light should do you fine. The EL530 mentioned above is not a
bad light - perfectly usable - but somewhat fragile IME.
The halfords/Hella 1W light is a poor design that requires a couple of
layers of gaffer tape to mask the backwash from the lens element so
that you are not dazzled.

I use a set of AyUp lights (ayuplights.co.uk) but these are probably
out of your price range.

..d

In article <gbaohj$sd8$1@registered.motzarella.org>, Martin wrote:
>Alan Braggins wrote:
>
>> However http://www.2pure.co.uk/Reelight-SL120-Front-Rear-Set-Hub-Gears
>> implies the Reelite lights powered by spoke mounted magnets are bright
>> enough to qualify, and they are flashing mode only (at least some models
>> are).
>
>I keep forgetting about Reelites.
>There is a CTC review on the same website:
>http://www.2pure.co.uk/Reelight-SL120-UK-CTC-Review-12-07

In fact it was the Chris Juden CTC review I meant to link to, and mentions
the legally required brightness for flashing lights:
"Flashing lights are legal now. But if you want to use one as anything other
 than a subsidiary light it must emit at least 4 candela (4000rrcd) mid flash
 and, crucially, not have any means of emitting a steady light.
 These Reelights fit the bill"


>The main things for the SL120 version are a 2Hz flash rate, with a 29cd 
>front lit, and 10 cd rear. (i.e. legal for the UK)

Though there's a potential issue with the height of the rear light
on small wheeled bikes.


>I doubt the cheaper SL100 version is probably not legal in this country, 
>as the flash rate is proportional to speed. Once you hit about 10mph, 
>they will flash faster than 4Hz, and will be illegal.

And they'll flash faster on a small wheeled bike.

http://www.2pure.co.uk/Reelight-SL100-Front-Rear-Set-Std-UK-Version claims
"Reelight is British Standard Approved - passing all standards applicable to 
 cycle lighting in the UK and EU. Reelight lights are sufficient on their own
 to comply with all current legislation."
but I'm not convinced that applies to the SL100, for the reasons you give.


>I still have never seen any of these in the wild, only in bike shops and 
>on the web.

I think I've seen a set once.

"Pete Biggs" 
considered Tue, 23 Sep 2008 11:56:34 +0200 the perfect time to write:

>Alan Braggins wrote:
>> In article
>> ,
>> POHB wrote:
>>> On 22 Sep, 23:00, Martin  wrote:
>>>> It is very difficult to get a decent light nowadays that is road
>>>> legal, very few cyclists riding at night with lights have fully
>>>> road legal lights. The best thing to do is have a decent set of
>>>> lights, and hope plod does not know any better.
>>>
>>> Are you aware that blinkies have been legal for a while now?
>>
>> I don't know about the OP, but I'd argue that for a front light on an
>> unlit road then a blinky is not a decent light, so that's irrelevent
>> to the ease of finding a decent road legal light (but not to the number
>> of cyclists who are legal in town under streetlights).
>
>It's not irrelevent because you can have a little non-decent light to make 
>yourself legal *in addition* to a more powerful light that wouldn't be legal 
>on its own.
>
>However, I'm not sure blinkies with a constant mode count.  Nearly all 
>flashing LED cycle lights on the market have a constant mode.
>
Unfortunately, if they have a constant mode, they have to be marked as
complying with British Standard EN whatever-it-is (I'm sure someone
will supply the number).

Once you have a set of legal ones, you can add as many "supplementary"
lights as you like, and they need no approval, but must be the correct
colour for the direction they face in.

Of course, not many coppers know the details eiter, and are far more
likely to take an interest in the people with no lights at all.

The only danger comes in a potential insurance claim, where a drivers
insurance company will look really hard for anything they can use to
imply that "you weren't legally lit up, and it therefore wasn't my
client's fault, your honour".
Of course, if you are running a close second to the blackpool
illuminations, that may be difficult for them to claim.
The same issue may apply to pedal reflectors, even if you use
reflective ankle bands.
A smart insurance company lawyer may even be able to argue
successfully that recumbents aren't legal on the roads after dark,
since the pedal reflectors are obscured by nature of the design (even
if fitted), and anyone using one may need to know that it's legal to
obstruct any reflector, provided a replacement of the same colour is
fitted in a visible location (not sure how this works for pedal
reflectors, since movement is a large part of the function).

On Tue, 23 Sep 2008, Phil W Lee wrote:

> A smart insurance company lawyer may even be able to argue successfully 
> that recumbents aren't legal on the roads after dark, since the pedal 
> reflectors are obscured by nature of the design (even if fitted), and 
> anyone using one may need to know that it's legal to obstruct any 
> reflector, provided a replacement of the same colour is fitted in a 
> visible location (not sure how this works for pedal reflectors, since 
> movement is a large part of the function).

There's a standard interface for pedal reflectors, right? A pair of bolts. 
How about making a little flange which bolts onto the pedal and then 
provides a second set of bolt-holes at right angles to it, so when you 
bolt reflectors onto *that*, they're pointing the right way for use on a 
recombinant?

I think you'd want one on either edge of the pedal, arranged so whichever 
was at the top was facing backwards, where it has a chance of being seen 
when your foot is at the top of its orbit, and the one at the bottom is 
facing forwards. I think.

This is dependent on their being a pair of bolt holes on the end of your 
toeclip, though, since a reflector on the pedal itself would be obscured 
from behind by your foot.

Don't ask me how it works if you have cleats. You get run over, probably.

tom

-- 
Know who said that? Fucking Terrorvision, that's who. -- D

Quoting  elyob  :
>And to slightly hijack the thread, if anyone can recommend a small
>blinky for putting on my Brompton?

Well, let me hijack it in two directions. For some time I've used a Cateye
TL-LD260 as a backup rear light. I mount 'em on the back of the pannier
rack on the tourer and the roadster. However, this means the brackets get
their tongues broken off. I don't mount them on the seatpost, because I
often use a saddlebag.

I've got a Smart light with a chunkier and less sticky-out bracket, but it
is 2xAAA and my headtorch is 3xAAA (and the 260 will continue to work fine
on the Brompton, so I'll also have a 3xAAA tail light in service), so I
was wondering if anyone could recommend a 3xAAA tail light with a robust
bracket or a mounting option that isn't the seat post and isn't off the
very rear of the bike?
-- 
David Damerell  Distortion Field!
Today is Thursday, September.

"Martin"  wrote in message 
news:gbaohj$sd8$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>
> I still have never seen any of these in the wild, only in bike shops and 
> on the web.
>
> Martin.

I have a pair on my road bike to complement my main lights. Useful for 
making myself more visible in dull weather or within the shadow of trees. 
One of the reasons for getting them was that my main lights (i.e. the ones I 
need to see on dark unlit roads) were not road legal on their own but they 
are OK as supplementary lights to a set of legal lights.

Phil W Lee wrote:

> The only danger comes in a potential insurance claim, where a drivers
> insurance company will look really hard for anything they can use to
> imply that "you weren't legally lit up, and it therefore wasn't my
> client's fault, your honour".

Has there been an actual case where the outcome of an insurance claim has 
been affected by a cyclist not being legally lit up at night when they had 
lights?

I know that insurance companies do not always examine the bike at all.

~PB

Alan Braggins wrote:
> In article <gbaohj$sd8$1@registered.motzarella.org>, Martin wrote:

>> The main things for the SL120 version are a 2Hz flash rate, with a 29cd 
>> front lit, and 10 cd rear. (i.e. legal for the UK)
> 
> Though there's a potential issue with the height of the rear light
> on small wheeled bikes.

Good point, as they are axle mounted, it is questionable whether they 
are legal on a 26inch wheeled bike, although they would only need to be 
about an inch above the axle on my slick tyres (less for knobblies).

Andrew Mobbs wrote:
> Martin   wrote:
>> If a blinky has a steady mode, it still has to be BS6102/3 compliant, 
>> and have the BS stamped on the lit. AFAIK there is only one rear LED lit 
>> that is legal as a primary light, the cateye TL-AU100BS[2], and I do not 
>> know of any front LED lits that are legal.
> 
> I believe the Cateye EL300 is:
> http://www.rutlandcycling.com/1691/Cateye-EL300-AU100-BS-Front---Rear-Light-Set.html
> 

That explains why the police around here have been using them on 
mountain bikes for the last few years.

"Pete Biggs" 
considered Tue, 23 Sep 2008 22:08:41 +0200 the perfect time to write:

>Phil W Lee wrote:
>
>> The only danger comes in a potential insurance claim, where a drivers
>> insurance company will look really hard for anything they can use to
>> imply that "you weren't legally lit up, and it therefore wasn't my
>> client's fault, your honour".
>
>Has there been an actual case where the outcome of an insurance claim has 
>been affected by a cyclist not being legally lit up at night when they had 
>lights?

I don't know of one, but I don't think they employ loss adjusters out
of a sense of charity.
It would probably only be worthwhile to rake it over on a substantial
claim, but then that's the one that matters the most.

Best to think of it as being security for the wife & kids.
>
>I know that insurance companies do not always examine the bike at all.
>
Probably not on minor claims, but in the one you aren't around for,
the amount would be substantial enough for the loss adjusters to be
involved, and they can certainly call on engineers and such like.

Daniel Barlow wrote:

>Martin  writes:
>
>> On my ridge back I have a Cateye Single shot plus (HL EL610RC) which
>> is excellent for railway paths and the like. (about 65-90 ukp). Other
>> people recommend the EL530, which can be got for about 35ukp, however
>> I have heard complaints about the 530.
>
>I had an EL530 until it stopped working for no obvious reason.  I
>replaced it with a Fenix torch, which is one of the Cree-based lights
>that was referred to upthread, and about the same price.  The Fenix
>torch far outclasses it for light output and (I think) for spread -
>the EL530 seemed to have a very small bright spot and a wash around it
>that wasn't actually much cop.
>
>http://www.coruskate.net/Order_of_the_Fenix is what I said about it
>two weeks ago.
>
>http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/fenix_l1dce-l2dce.htm is a
>proper review done by actual (or at least, apparent) experts
>
>
>-dan

I have also replaced my wobbly EL530 with a Fenix this year.

IMO the main problem with the 530 is the spill.  In particular, on a
wet road the spill cannot be seen, leaving only the ludicrously small
spot of light remaining to guide your way.

The Fenix is at least twice as bright as the Cateye, has a better beam
and costs less.

Regarding your lockblock problem, try securing the flashlight closer
to the point at which it balances.  On mine this is quite far forward.

Andy

On 23 Sep, 13:47, Martin  wrote:
> I keep forgetting about Reelites.
> I still have never seen any of these in the wild, only in bike shops and
> on the web.

I followed some for a way last night.  The rear light was not very
bright and being so low down not particularly noticeable either.  In
fact the reflector that surrounds the red LED was brighter by
reflecting my flashing front light than was the LED itself.

On 22 Sep, 23:33, "Adam Lea"  wrote:
> "Richard"  wrote in message
>
> news:6329d5c7-93b7-41b4-bc8b-e35ec9120e92@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hi
>
> > I need some lights for a mountain bike for the winter and I'm a bit
> > confused about those on offer that seem to range from about 10 pounds
> > to over 600 and all of which seem to describe how bright they are in
> > different ways.
>
> > My journey to work is about 4 miles along an unlit disused railway
> > line (a rough surface but not extreme off road) and about half a mile
> > at each end on the road which has street lighting.
>
> > Can anyone recommend me some lights please that are powerful enough to
> > use along the unlit part (how many watts / lumens do I need for this?)
> > and also legal for the road, and given this as cheap as possible.
> > Ideally they should be easy to remove from the bike when not in use
> > and use a power source that can be recharged easily.
>
> > Some of the lights I have seen use LEDs, some traditional lightbulbs.
> > Is there any advantage to either?
>
> > Thanks
>
> > Richard
>
> I have used these last winter for a 12 mile commute along dark country
> lanes:
>
> http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=15442
>
> and found them pretty good, although the lights are a little fiddly to
> attach and remove (I just attach and leave them there all winter). The
> Cateye EL530 is also a good option as someone else mentioned.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


Thanks for all your suggestions - I have ordered an Electron light
system -  I like the idea of 2 separate beams, and when it arrives
I'll let you know how I get on with it.

My commute takes about 20-25 minutes in each direction so even on the
highest power it should last long enough.

Regards, Richard

On Sep 23, 5:54 pm, David Damerell 
wrote:
> Quoting  elyob  :
>
> >And to slightly hijack the thread, if anyone can recommend a small
> >blinky for putting on my Brompton?
>
> Well, let me hijack it in two directions. For some time I've used a Cateye
> TL-LD260 as a backup rear light. I mount 'em on the back of the pannier
> rack on the tourer and the roadster. However, this means the brackets get
> their tongues broken off. I don't mount them on the seatpost, because I
> often use a saddlebag.
>
> I've got a Smart light with a chunkier and less sticky-out bracket, but it
> is 2xAAA and my headtorch is 3xAAA (and the 260 will continue to work fine
> on the Brompton, so I'll also have a 3xAAA tail light in service), so I
> was wondering if anyone could recommend a 3xAAA tail light with a robust
> bracket or a mounting option that isn't the seat post and isn't off the
> very rear of the bike?

Have you got the pannier rack mounting bracket for Cateye lights? This
is a flat piece with a screw hole either end. See
http://www.edinburghbicycle.com/ebwPNLqrymode.a4p?f_ProductID=8386&f_SupersetQRY=C227&f_SortOrderID=1&f_bct=c003154c003152c003245

or

http://tinyurl.com/4lp5qo

..d

Quoting  David Martin  :
>On Sep 23, 5:54=A0pm, David Damerell 
>>on the Brompton, so I'll also have a 3xAAA tail light in service), so I
>>was wondering if anyone could recommend a 3xAAA tail light with a robust
>>bracket or a mounting option that isn't the seat post and isn't off the
>>very rear of the bike?
>Have you got the pannier rack mounting bracket for Cateye lights? This

That, alas, looks like it fits the kind with a vertical mount. The 260 has
a horizontal mount which sticks out backwards, which is why it keeps
getting broken.

All my pannier racks do have the plate with holes in that expects to be
mounted to. Hm. I see Cateye no longer do any 3xAAA tail light, but I
might try that if the Smart doesn't work out, since AFAICT _no-one_ makes
3xAAA tail lights anymore. Sigh.
-- 
David Damerell  Distortion Field!
Today is Saturday, September - a weekend.

On Sep 25, 6:17 pm, David Damerell 
wrote:
> Quoting  David Martin  :
>
> >On Sep 23, 5:54=A0pm, David Damerell 
> >>on the Brompton, so I'll also have a 3xAAA tail light in service), so I
> >>was wondering if anyone could recommend a 3xAAA tail light with a robust
> >>bracket or a mounting option that isn't the seat post and isn't off the
> >>very rear of the bike?
> >Have you got the pannier rack mounting bracket for Cateye lights? This
>
> That, alas, looks like it fits the kind with a vertical mount. The 260 has
> a horizontal mount which sticks out backwards, which is why it keeps
> getting broken.

I'm not sure I follow your description.. The cateye lights can be
mounted in any one of three orientations.

*googles*

Ah! Just get a 2AAA light and be done with it, one that mounts cleanly
and doesn't get broken. Is there any particular reason to demand a
3AAA light?

..d

Quoting  David Martin  :
>Ah! Just get a 2AAA light and be done with it, one that mounts cleanly
>and doesn't get broken. Is there any particular reason to demand a
>3AAA light?

My headtorch and the battery rear light on the Brompton (where a
horizontal pattern Cateye fits to the very top of the old-style seatpost,
above the clamp, and just peers out under the saddle, which works whether
or not I have a saddlebag and doesn't interfere with the fold or stick out
to get whacked) are 3xAAA.

If _all_ my lights are 3xAAA, this means it's trivial to ensure an even
service cycle for all the rechargeables. It also means if I have some sort
of spare battery cockup I can cadge the tail light's batteries for the
headtorch, if I need the headtorch more.
-- 
David Damerell  Kill the tomato!
Today is First Brieday, September.