On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 04:54:20 -0700 (PDT), TBirdFrank
 said in
:

>Now that is trolling - and offensive too

And you weren't?  Hmmm.  Perhaps there is a perception-reality
disconnect in your self-analysis.

Bye.

*plonk*

Guy
-- 
May contain traces of irony.  Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

There are a set of traffic and pedestrian lights in Kingston upon Thames 
that I have misgivings about.

I did make an attempt at an ASCII representation but it was awful, so 
here's a link to a instead:

<http://www.sarlet.com/6400000601.PDF>

The problems are:

1.   When traffic is heavy and slow moving, vehicles on the A308 toward 
Hampton Court will pass lights on green but by the time they are level 
with the cycle crossing, the lights have changed and are showing green 
for cycles but there are *no* lights pointing to the A308 at this point, 
and traffic there does not know the lights have changed. Each direction 
believe they have a green light.

2.   Cyclists waiting for a green light to cross that road find it hard 
to see the signal. The lights are angled such that you cannot see them 
from the cycle crossing - even though they are for cyclists - and have 
to rely on the conditions being just right, not too dark and not to 
bright for the reflection of the light to show on the hoods.

My first question is: the above make sense? Does anyone know the place I 
mean and have a better description of the problem?

My second question is: I am writing to Kingston council about this - 
does anyone know a name I could address my letter to? Otherwise I will 
address it to The head of road safety.

-- 
Sara

The teeth are free at last! Fly free, young teethies!

On Wed, 17 Sep 2008, Sara Kirk wrote:

> There are a set of traffic and pedestrian lights in Kingston upon Thames
> that I have misgivings about.
>
> I did make an attempt at an ASCII representation but it was awful, so
> here's a link to a instead:
>
> <http://www.sarlet.com/6400000601.PDF>
>
> The problems are:
>
> 1.   When traffic is heavy and slow moving, vehicles on the A308 toward
> Hampton Court will pass lights on green but by the time they are level
> with the cycle crossing, the lights have changed and are showing green
> for cycles but there are *no* lights pointing to the A308 at this point,
> and traffic there does not know the lights have changed. Each direction
> believe they have a green light.
>
> 2.   Cyclists waiting for a green light to cross that road find it hard
> to see the signal. The lights are angled such that you cannot see them
> from the cycle crossing - even though they are for cyclists - and have
> to rely on the conditions being just right, not too dark and not to
> bright for the reflection of the light to show on the hoods.
>
> My first question is: the above make sense?

Your description does. The road layout doesn't!

> Does anyone know the place I mean and have a better description of the 
> problem?

I don't, but i've found an aerial photo (from which i realised that north 
is to the left in your drawing):

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=51.412741,-0.305101&ie=UTF8&ll=51.412738,-0.305107&spn=0.001019,0.002414&t=k&z=19

Sadly, the shadow of the department store obscures precisely the bit of 
road you're talking about.

> My second question is: I am writing to Kingston council about this - 
> does anyone know a name I could address my letter to? Otherwise I will 
> address it to The head of road safety.

No idea, i'm afraid. You could try contacting the Kingston chapter of the 
London Cycling Campaign; they might know, and might also write in support 
of you.

tom

-- 
inspired by forty-rod whiskey

On 17 Sep, 15:22, Sara Kirk  wrote:
> There are a set of traffic and pedestrian lights in Kingston upon Thames
> that I have misgivings about.
>
> I did make an attempt at an ASCII representation but it was awful, so
> here's a link to a instead:
>
> <http://www.sarlet.com/6400000601.PDF>
>
> The problems are:
>
> 1.   When traffic is heavy and slow moving, vehicles on the A308 toward
> Hampton Court will pass lights on green but by the time they are level
> with the cycle crossing, the lights have changed and are showing green
> for cycles but there are *no* lights pointing to the A308 at this point,
> and traffic there does not know the lights have changed. Each direction
> believe they have a green light.
>
> 2.   Cyclists waiting for a green light to cross that road find it hard
> to see the signal. The lights are angled such that you cannot see them
> from the cycle crossing - even though they are for cyclists - and have
> to rely on the conditions being just right, not too dark and not to
> bright for the reflection of the light to show on the hoods.
>
> My first question is: the above make sense? Does anyone know the place I
> mean and have a better description of the problem?
>
> My second question is: I am writing to Kingston council about this -
> does anyone know a name I could address my letter to? Otherwise I will
> address it to The head of road safety.
>

Yes, I know the area well. My main problem is the peds mixing up with
the bikes, it's a fairly fast road with blind corners all over so I
don't want to have someone get in my way!

I think your best bet would be to raise this with Kingston Cycling
Campaign. You would have far better luck with them on their side as
they will already have a relationship with Kingston Council.
www.kingstoncycling.org.uk

You can meet with them on the 14th October at the Waggon & Horses ....
even better if you are member of LCC (London Cycling Campaign).

Nick

Sara Kirk wrote:
> There are a set of traffic and pedestrian lights in Kingston upon Thames 
> that I have misgivings about.

I assume this is one way, top to left.

Email the Chief executive then nobody can play pass the blame.

Say that:
(a) the cycle lights are in disrepair 'cos you can't see them
(b) the lights, when repaired are unsafe for the reasons you've given.

Also
(c) write(email will do) something like
   "FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT REQUEST:
   (A) I would like to see the risk assessment which relates to the
   safety of cyclists using this crossing.

* FOI is simple, worth looking up.  Also if they are in any doubt about what you 
want it is their responsibility to disambiguate, all within the given time period.
* Email the chief exec 5 days before the FOI time limit is due to expire 
reminding of them of the limit.
* If you get the run-around come back here.

* If you get a scrap of paper then look at it very very carefully.  Don't expect 
it to mention 'your' problem.  OK, we all know these are shams, but you can now 
go about pointing out that they haven't considered cyclists safety (or brushed 
it off with disregard to the facts).  At this point you may consider a simple 
Section 56 (Highways act 1980) notice to them which should put the cat amongst 
the pigeons.

* As others have/will mention there must be a local cycle campaign.

Welcome to the stupidity of local and national government.

-- 
Peter (Prof) Fox
Multitude of things for beer, cycling, Morris and curiosities at 
<http://vulpeculox.net>

On 17 Sep, 15:22, Sara Kirk  wrote:
> 1.   When traffic is heavy and slow moving, vehicles on the A308 toward
> Hampton Court will pass lights on green but by the time they are level
> with the cycle crossing, the lights have changed and are showing green
> for cycles but there are *no* lights pointing to the A308 at this point,
> and traffic there does not know the lights have changed. Each direction
> believe they have a green light.

I use a similar facility on the south side of Shepherd's Bush Green.
3 cars can fit between the lights and the crossing and they have no
way of knowing when their lights have gone red.

When I had a complaint about a road in Ealing I got nowhere with the
highways department.  However, my councilor was very prompt in getting
it sorted.  Maybe you should find out who's ward it is and write to
them?

In article 
,
 POHB  wrote:

> On 17 Sep, 15:22, Sara Kirk  wrote:
> > 1.   When traffic is heavy and slow moving, vehicles on the A308 toward
> > Hampton Court will pass lights on green but by the time they are level
> > with the cycle crossing, the lights have changed and are showing green
> > for cycles but there are *no* lights pointing to the A308 at this point,
> > and traffic there does not know the lights have changed. Each direction
> > believe they have a green light.
> 
> I use a similar facility on the south side of Shepherd's Bush Green.
> 3 cars can fit between the lights and the crossing and they have no
> way of knowing when their lights have gone red.
> 
> When I had a complaint about a road in Ealing I got nowhere with the
> highways department.  However, my councilor was very prompt in getting
> it sorted.  Maybe you should find out who's ward it is and write to
> them?

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. I'll make sure I post back to let 
you know how I get on.

-- 
Sara

The teeth are free at last! Fly free, young teethies!