I may be returning to climbing in the near future. As I got rid of most of 
my gear a couple of years ago, what would be the consensus of opinion for a 
good all-round harness for intermediate (probably up to HVS) grades and some 
Alpine/Scottish winter work?

ta!

In message 
          "Gordon" <gbplinux@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:

> I may be returning to climbing in the near future. As I got rid of
> most of  my gear a couple of years ago, what would be the consensus of
> opinion for a  good all-round harness for intermediate (probably up to
> HVS) grades and some  Alpine/Scottish winter work?
> 
> ta! 
> 

I'd definitely go to a reputable dealer and seek their advice and try
them on and then buy the one that is most comfortable and meets all
requirements. It's not something that you want to get wrong in size
(dangerous) or in comfort.

The things to consider when looking at features are 

[1] Whether you want fixed leg loop sizes or adjustable? I opt for
adjustable because I wear my harness for ski-mountaineering as well as
summer rock climbing, thus I might be wearing it over thicker winter
salopettes or thinner summer trousers/shorts.

[2] Do you want extra-padding for comfort in hanging belays, or do you
want it to be small and light giving greater freedom of movement for
things such as alpine mountaineering or skiing?

[3] How do you prefer to rack your gear? Rigid gear loops can often be
inconvenient if you wish to wear the harness under a rucksack or
ski-jacket. You might prefer to carry gear on a bandoler or on the
gearloops of a rucksack.

[4] If you're going to be wearing the harness over different layers of
clothing, e.g. in summer and winter use, you might want it to adjust
from both sides so that you can centre up the belay loop.

Mike
-- 
 o/ \\    //        |\   ,_ o      Mike Clark
<\__,\\  //   __o   | \ /  /\,   "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
 ">    ||   _`\<,_  |__\  \> |  immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and
  `    ||  (_)/ (_) |   \corn computer user"

"Mike Clark"  wrote in message 
news:7b4a0d1b4f.mrc7offline@mrc7acorn1.path.cam.ac.uk...
> In message 
>          "Gordon" <gbplinux@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I may be returning to climbing in the near future. As I got rid of
>> most of  my gear a couple of years ago, what would be the consensus of
>> opinion for a  good all-round harness for intermediate (probably up to
>> HVS) grades and some  Alpine/Scottish winter work?
>>
>> ta!
>>
>
> I'd definitely go to a reputable dealer and seek their advice and try
> them on and then buy the one that is most comfortable and meets all
> requirements. It's not something that you want to get wrong in size
> (dangerous) or in comfort.
>
> The things to consider when looking at features are
>
> [1] Whether you want fixed leg loop sizes or adjustable? I opt for
> adjustable because I wear my harness for ski-mountaineering as well as
> summer rock climbing, thus I might be wearing it over thicker winter
> salopettes or thinner summer trousers/shorts.
>
> [2] Do you want extra-padding for comfort in hanging belays, or do you
> want it to be small and light giving greater freedom of movement for
> things such as alpine mountaineering or skiing?
>
> [3] How do you prefer to rack your gear? Rigid gear loops can often be
> inconvenient if you wish to wear the harness under a rucksack or
> ski-jacket. You might prefer to carry gear on a bandoler or on the
> gearloops of a rucksack.
>
> [4] If you're going to be wearing the harness over different layers of
> clothing, e.g. in summer and winter use, you might want it to adjust
> from both sides so that you can centre up the belay loop.
>

Thanks for that - I'm trying to get a general feel, as I live right out in 
the sticks, before I get to a shop.....and not all shops stock all 
harnesses.....

On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 16:25:22 +0100, Mike Clark wrote:
 
> I'd definitely go to a reputable dealer and seek their advice and try
> them on and then buy the one that is most comfortable and meets all
> requirements.

Definitely. Try hanging in it if you can, too.

One more thing: If you've been out of the game for a little while, then
you may not have seen non-double-back buckles. Beal started with these ~a
decade ago (my first harness). Petzl [a partner's ~5 yo Petzl Calidris has
the same feature] and some other manufacturers have followed suit. It's
one less thing to forget to do when you're still a bit fuzzy in the gloom
at that alpine start.

I've had a "conversation of deaf people" (as they say in these parts)
regarding this point. We'd turned up somewhere for a weekend's climbing
and - merde! - only one harness between two. We found a random climbing
shop, and the salesperson wanted to sell us a nice BD harness, but it had
the old-style double-back buckles. I argued that after so many years of
not even thinking about doubling-back, this was a risk that I didn't want
to take. "Yes", he countered, "but it's absolutely fine if you do
remember". But but but....

Anyway. We bought a Mammut, which is also suitable for gold-fish-memoried
climbers.

Martin.

Mike Clark wrote:

> 
> [4] If you're going to be wearing the harness over different layers of
> clothing, e.g. in summer and winter use, you might want it to adjust
> from both sides so that you can centre up the belay loop.
> 
> Mike

I'm having difficulty locating harnesses with dual-adjust waist belts. 
Do you have any names?

Hi, Gordon & all,

"Gordon" <gbplinux@gmail.com.invalid> wrote in message 
news:h7mdnWFBsso3AkTb4p2dnAA@eclipse.net.uk...
> Mike Clark wrote:
>
>>
>> [4] If you're going to be wearing the harness over different layers of
>> clothing, e.g. in summer and winter use, you might want it to adjust
>> from both sides so that you can centre up the belay loop.

Very sound advice, makes all the difference.  I'd also agree that trying on 
the harness and hanging in it from a beam will be helpful.  If the shop 
assistant looks blank, you're in the wrong shop.

>>
>> Mike
>
> I'm having difficulty locating harnesses with dual-adjust waist belts. Do 
> you have any names?

Petzl - this Calidris replaced the Gourou which I've used for both summer 
and winter climbing http://en.petzl.com/petzl/Produit?Produit=165 ; they 
have lots of others.  IMHO, Petzl stuff is excellent, and they offer superb 
technical backup on their website and in the catalogue.

HTH, safe climbing,

Steve P

Steve Pardoe wrote:

>> I'm having difficulty locating harnesses with dual-adjust waist belts. Do
>> you have any names?
> 
> Petzl - this Calidris replaced the Gourou which I've used for both summer
> and winter climbing http://en.petzl.com/petzl/Produit?Produit=165 ; they
> have lots of others.

The Petzl Corax is another, being a slightly simplified version of the
Calidris.  I'm not a huge fan of these Petzl harnesses personally, but lots
of people seem to love them.

The new Wild Country Synchro is very good.  Its relatively bulky and has
lots of features, so its no ideal if you're thinking 'minimal'.
http://www.needlesports.com/acatalog/Mail_Order_Harnesses_14.html

The DMM 'Renegade':
http://www.dmmclimbing.com/productsDetails.asp?id=7&id2=24
only has one buckle at the waist, but does have a 'floating waist design'
meaning that you can centre up the belt anyway.  (Essentially the padding,
gear loops etc., is like a sleeve over the structural waist belt, so after
doing up the buckle you can slide it around a bit to centralise the gear
loops.)  I tried one and couldn't get on with it at all, but I'm a bit of a
funny shape.

Also, Black Diamond do a twin (pre-threaded) buckle version of the Focus
http://www.bdel.com/gear/focus_speed.php

hth
Sean
x

"Gordon" <gbplinux@gmail.com.invalid> wrote in message 
news:FNudnXnPR9IKukXbnZ2dnUVZ8rKdnZ2d@eclipse.net.uk...
>I may be returning to climbing in the near future. As I got rid of most of 
>my gear a couple of years ago, what would be the consensus of opinion for a 
>good all-round harness for intermediate (probably up to HVS) grades and 
>some Alpine/Scottish winter work?
>
> ta!
>


Thanks to all who replied - I've gone with a Petzl Corax....the measurements 
of which would seem to be WAY out. the size 1 is supposed to be 35.4" max 
waist. I have a 36" waist and there was BAGS of room even in my winter 
climbing gear. (And boy, did I sweat in the shop this afternoon!)

On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 18:21:29 +0100, Gordon
<gbplinux@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:

>Mike Clark wrote:
>
>> 
>> [4] If you're going to be wearing the harness over different layers of
>> clothing, e.g. in summer and winter use, you might want it to adjust
>> from both sides so that you can centre up the belay loop.
>> 
>> Mike
>
>I'm having difficulty locating harnesses with dual-adjust waist belts. 
>Do you have any names?

My recently purchased Petzl Corax has this feature.

<looks down thread>

Oh, and I see you've bought one!
-- 
Champ

Hi, Gordon & all,

"Gordon" <gbplinux@gmail.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:U5GdnRgg9_Tv90DbnZ2dnUVZ8q-rnZ2d@eclipse.net.uk...
> "Gordon" <gbplinux@gmail.com.invalid> wrote in message
> news:FNudnXnPR9IKukXbnZ2dnUVZ8rKdnZ2d@eclipse.net.uk...
> >I may be returning to climbing in the near future. As I got rid of most
of
> >my gear a couple of years ago, what would be the consensus of opinion for
a
> >good all-round harness for intermediate (probably up to HVS) grades and
> >some Alpine/Scottish winter work?
> >
> > ta!
> >
>
>
> Thanks to all who replied - I've gone with a Petzl Corax....the
measurements
> of which would seem to be WAY out. the size 1 is supposed to be 35.4" max
> waist. I have a 36" waist and there was BAGS of room even in my winter
> climbing gear. (And boy, did I sweat in the shop this afternoon!)

I guess the waist size refers to a naked person ;-)

I'm sure this will be as in eggs, grannies and sucking, but you won't be
tempted (as I've seen some people do) to tie-in to the vertical belay loop,
will you?

HTH, enjoy your return to the crags.  Where are you likely to be?  There are
a few of us former North West Face [1] bimblers who still meet up in the
Peak / Cheshire sandstone areas occasionally, if you are interested in
joining us some time.

Steve

[1] We used to get into trouble for advertising our meets here, so I won't,
but you could be added to our circular e-mailing list.

"Steve Pardoe"  wrote in message 
news:4YSdndUoJYZP6UPbRVnyhQA@pipex.net...

>
> I'm sure this will be as in eggs, grannies and sucking, but you won't be
> tempted (as I've seen some people do) to tie-in to the vertical belay 
> loop,
> will you?

I did see on one web site a harness that is designed to not fail if the user 
ties into a GEAR LOOP.......BWAHAHAHAHA!


>
> HTH, enjoy your return to the crags.  Where are you likely to be?  There 
> are
> a few of us former North West Face [1] bimblers who still meet up in the
> Peak / Cheshire sandstone areas occasionally, if you are interested in
> joining us some time.
>
> Steve
>
> [1] We used to get into trouble for advertising our meets here, so I 
> won't,
> but you could be added to our circular e-mailing list.
>


Hi, thanks! I live about ten miles SW of the Roaches....drop me an email at 
gordonDOTburgessparkerATgbpcomputingDOTcoDOTuk....
(I'm not A GOOD climber BTW, need a lot of confidence building. I fell off 
on my very first climb about 20 years ago....)

In article , Steve Pardoe 
 writes
>We used to get into trouble for advertising our meets here, so I won't,
>but you could be added to our circular e-mailing list.

At least when you did there was some on topic content in the group!

-- 

Dominic Sexton

"Dominic Sexton" <{d-sep03}@dscs.demon.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:4tDMYZoQLp3GFwvN@nospam.demon.co.uk...
> In article , Steve Pardoe 
>  writes
>>We used to get into trouble for advertising our meets here, so I won't,
>>but you could be added to our circular e-mailing list.
>
> At least when you did there was some on topic content in the group!
>


Why would advertising climbing meets be off-topic in a err...CLIMBING group?

Gordon wrote:
> "Dominic Sexton" <{d-sep03}@dscs.demon.co.uk> wrote in message 
> news:4tDMYZoQLp3GFwvN@nospam.demon.co.uk...
>> In article , Steve Pardoe 
>>  writes
>>> We used to get into trouble for advertising our meets here, so I won't,
>>> but you could be added to our circular e-mailing list.
>> At least when you did there was some on topic content in the group!
>>
> 
> 
> Why would advertising climbing meets be off-topic in a err...CLIMBING group? 

Why would self appointed anal net-police let such a consideration stop
them? ;-/

Pete.
-- 
Peter Clinch                    Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637   Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177              Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk     http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

In article , Gordon 
<gbplinux@gmail.com.invalid> writes
>"Dominic Sexton" <{d-sep03}@dscs.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:4tDMYZoQLp3GFwvN@nospam.demon.co.uk...
>> In article , Steve Pardoe
>>  writes
>>>We used to get into trouble for advertising our meets here, so I won't,
>>>but you could be added to our circular e-mailing list.
>>
>> At least when you did there was some on topic content in the group!
>>
>
>
>Why would advertising climbing meets be off-topic in a err...CLIMBING group?

It wasn't off topic but many of the regular contributors to this group 
were also regulars at the North West Face climbing wall on a weekly 
basis. Banter about their meets at the wall and in the open was a fair 
proportion of the posts in the group. Some small minded folk objected to 
that so the banter left.

Subsequently the activity on the group has sadly dwindled to almost 
nothing. I'm not saying that the removal of the NWF posse's posts led to 
the decline of the group but it certainly added to it and many of the 
threads did have posts from members of the NWF group.

In my opinion discouraging any on topic posts, even those that are of 
very local interest like in this case, is a mistake...

-- 

Dominic Sexton

In message <m+u7MCplDq3GFwci@nospam.demon.co.uk>
          Dominic Sexton <{d-sep03}@dscs.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> In article , Gordon 
> <gbplinux@gmail.com.invalid> writes
> >"Dominic Sexton" <{d-sep03}@dscs.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> >news:4tDMYZoQLp3GFwvN@nospam.demon.co.uk...
> >> In article , Steve Pardoe
> >>  writes
> >>>We used to get into trouble for advertising our meets here, so I won't,
> >>>but you could be added to our circular e-mailing list.
> >>
> >> At least when you did there was some on topic content in the group!
> >>
> >
> >
> >Why would advertising climbing meets be off-topic in a err...CLIMBING group?
> 
> It wasn't off topic but many of the regular contributors to this group 
> were also regulars at the North West Face climbing wall on a weekly 
> basis. Banter about their meets at the wall and in the open was a fair 
> proportion of the posts in the group. Some small minded folk objected
> to  that so the banter left.
> 
> Subsequently the activity on the group has sadly dwindled to almost 
> nothing. I'm not saying that the removal of the NWF posse's posts led
> to  the decline of the group but it certainly added to it and many of
> the  threads did have posts from members of the NWF group.
> 
> In my opinion discouraging any on topic posts, even those that are of 
> very local interest like in this case, is a mistake...
> 

I think the establishment and popularity of the UKclimbing forum is what
killed most of the traffic on this group. Many of the regular posters to
uk.rec.climbing are still actively involved with UKClimbing, e.g.
Charles Arthur and Nick Smith. I've got an account on UKClimbing and
occasionally pop in, but I've never found web based forums as easy to
monitor as a newsgroup.

Mike
-- 
 o/ \\    //        |\   ,_ o      Mike Clark
<\__,\\  //   __o   | \ /  /\,   "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
 ">    ||   _`\<,_  |__\  \> |  immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and
  `    ||  (_)/ (_) |   \corn computer user"

Hi, Mike & all,

"Mike Clark"  wrote in message 
news:fd8c961d4f.mrc7offline@mrc7acorn1.path.cam.ac.uk...

> I think the establishment and popularity of the UKclimbing forum is what
> killed most of the traffic on this group.

That and, I guess, the fact that many people who accessed Usenet from the 
workplace have been forcibly migrated to M$ Outlook, which doesn't have a 
newsreader, so they are stuck with browser access, in which case UKC is 
probably less hassle than trying to use Google Groups (formerly Deja News) 
to get to uk.rec.climbing.

> Many of the regular posters to
> uk.rec.climbing are still actively involved with UKClimbing, e.g.
> Charles Arthur and Nick Smith. I've got an account on UKClimbing and
> occasionally pop in, but I've never found web based forums as easy to
> monitor as a newsgroup.

Agreed, and the sheer volume of traffic and (I believe) lack of threading 
makes it hard to follow.

SteveP

Hi, Gordon & all,

"Gordon" <gbplinux@gmail.com.invalid> wrote in message 
news:CpSdnXDPSP5cDUPbnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@eclipse.net.uk...
> "Steve Pardoe"  wrote in message 
> news:4YSdndUoJYZP6UPbRVnyhQA@pipex.net...

> Hi, thanks! I live about ten miles SW of the Roaches....drop me an email 
> at gordonDOTburgessparkerATgbpcomputingDOTcoDOTuk....

Right, I'll try to remember to add you in next time we're going out.  We had 
planned Windgather this evening, but it seems more likely that we'll head 
indoors now.

http://www.pardoes.com/climbing/index.htm#rock has links to some stuff we 
used to do as a group.

> (I'm not A GOOD climber BTW, need a lot of confidence building. I fell off 
> on my very first climb about 20 years ago....)

I only started climbing in 1999, when I was already 51, and so not only am I 
not good, but I have come to terms with the fact that I never will be - my 
personal comfort zone is shrinking after a few near misses.  I can still 
enjoy leading a nice VDiff or the odd Severe on a good day, though.

Steve P

Steve Pardoe wrote:

> [1] We used to get into trouble for advertising our meets here, so I
> [won't, but you could be added to our circular e-mailing list.

That was back when there was some traffic* on this ng (and the bitching
about the 'NWF' threads was far from unanimous even then).   I really don't
think it'd be a problem.

Sean
x

* Nice to see some now. :o)

On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 14:37:01 +0100, Mike Clark 
wrote:

>but I've never found web based forums as easy to
>monitor as a newsgroup.

Web based forums are rubbish, and massively less usable than a proper
threaded newsreader.

Of course, you can have flashing animated GIfs for your avatar tho, so
that makes it alright.
-- 
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

Hi everyone - long time, no see (unless you go the NWF).

Anyway, where were we? Ah yes, harnesses: For Alpine and Winter as well 
as all-round crag/wall use, I've just got myself Wild Country Vision 
Ziplock Adjustable. It's brilliant. It's adjustable, has no frills, good 
gear loops and I've found it great on Bosigran, Avon Wall, NWF (twice in 
one post, ha!), some grit and it's also been fine on big abs down 
seacliffs. Highly recommended.

Quiet round here isn't it?

Cheers

Dunc

Duncan wrote:

>  Wild Country Vision Ziplock Adjustable.
Cool.  I bought one of the new Synchros not so long ago and I'm liking that
a lot too.  Perhaps a bit gimmicky, and I still haven't quite worked out
how I want to rack my gear over 6 loops instead of 4, but very comfy.

> Quiet round here isn't it?
Sssh.  You'll wake the lurkers. :o)

Sean
x

"Duncan"  wrote in message 
news:fe5i3j$1jg0$1@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk...
>
> Hi everyone - long time, no see (unless you go the NWF).
>
> Anyway, where were we? Ah yes, harnesses: For Alpine and Winter as well as 
> all-round crag/wall use, I've just got myself Wild Country Vision Ziplock 
> Adjustable. It's brilliant. It's adjustable, has no frills, good gear 
> loops and I've found it great on Bosigran, Avon Wall, NWF (twice in one 
> post, ha!), some grit and it's also been fine on big abs down seacliffs. 
> Highly recommended.
>

I was torn between that and the Petzl Corax - decided on the Corax as it 
gave me a bit more adjustment in the waistbelt - (I /might/ lose some weight 
at some stage!)

Too bloody late, you have woken me up now.

Patrick

"Sean"  wrote in message 
news:Y8mdnYG1lfv905vanZ2dnUVZ8vudnZ2d@pipex.net...
> Duncan wrote:
>
>>  Wild Country Vision Ziplock Adjustable.
> Cool.  I bought one of the new Synchros not so long ago and I'm liking 
> that
> a lot too.  Perhaps a bit gimmicky, and I still haven't quite worked out
> how I want to rack my gear over 6 loops instead of 4, but very comfy.
>
>> Quiet round here isn't it?
> Sssh.  You'll wake the lurkers. :o)
>
> Sean
> x

Patrick Manuel wrote:

> Too bloody late, you have woken me up now.

Sorry.  Normal service will be resumed shortly..







zzzz...

In message 
          Sean  wrote:

> Patrick Manuel wrote:
> 
> > Too bloody late, you have woken me up now.
> 
> Sorry.  Normal service will be resumed shortly..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zzzz...

Uh.. what was that? Did somebody just pass through without me noticing?

..........................


-- 
 o/ \\    //       |\   ,_ o      Mike Clark, C.U. Department of Pathology
<\__,\\  //  __o   | \ /  /\,   "a mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
 ">    ||  _`\<,_  |__\  \> |  reader in immunology , antibody engineer and
  `    || (_)/ (_) |   \corn computer user"<http://www.path.cam.ac.uk/~mrc7/>

In message , Sean 
 writes

>Sssh.  You'll wake the lurkers. :o)

Can you keep that racket down please?

People are trying to sleep, you know.

-- 
Steve Gray
Addresses munged to protect the innocent

"Steve Gray"  wrote in message 
news:0v+L2mFNxzDHRAzL@wcompsys.co.uk...
> In message , Sean 
>  writes
>
>>Sssh.  You'll wake the lurkers. :o)
>
> Can you keep that racket down please?
>
> People are trying to sleep, you know.

Wow, hi Steve, that's an impressively delayed de-lurk!  How's tricks?

Steve 'Steve' P

In message , Steve Pardoe 
 writes
>"Steve Gray"  wrote in message
>news:0v+L2mFNxzDHRAzL@wcompsys.co.uk...
>> In message , Sean
>>  writes
>>
>>>Sssh.  You'll wake the lurkers. :o)
>>
>> Can you keep that racket down please?
>>
>> People are trying to sleep, you know.
>
>Wow, hi Steve, that's an impressively delayed de-lurk!  How's tricks?

Canny, thanks. Baby #4 is limiting my climbing opportunities as well as 
my sleep, though.

On the plus side, I got a go on one of those mobile tower wall things 
the other day. The owner made me wear a helmet - I think there must have 
been a danger of being hit by small children falling off the top, or 
something. I got my own back by taking all day to downclimb it ;-)

Since this thread is about harnesses, I suppose I could risk a serious 
question. Is it still accepted wisdom that hipless young kids need a 
full-body harness? This wall was using the usual sit ones and I assume 
that was an acceptable level of risk for the insurance company.

-- 
Steve Gray
Addresses munged to protect the innocent

Hi, Steve & all,

"Steve Gray"  wrote in message
news:wp3qncA1r0EHRA7l@wcompsys.co.uk...
<snips>
> Canny, thanks. Baby #4 is limiting my climbing opportunities as well as
> my sleep, though.

Golly-gosh, 4 sprogs, huh?  No wonder you don't post here so much.  Must
spend all yer time on uk.rec.babyminding or summat.

> On the plus side, I got a go on one of those mobile tower wall things
> the other day. The owner made me wear a helmet - I think there must have
> been a danger of being hit by small children falling off the top, or
> something. I got my own back by taking all day to downclimb it ;-)

There's nothing unusual in a route seeming to take me all day, up, down or
sideways ;-)

> Since this thread is about harnesses, I suppose I could risk a serious
> question. Is it still accepted wisdom that hipless young kids need a
> full-body harness? This wall was using the usual sit ones and I assume
> that was an acceptable level of risk for the insurance company.

No doubt Pete Clinch will be along in a mo, but I've always felt that a
full-body harness (e.g. Petzl Ouistiti) was a good idea for young 'uns.
Whenever we've taken our grandchildren to the NWF (oops) we've rented a
Ouistiti, and in fact I've been thinking of buying one for them before we
take them outside.

Last time I was at the crag with the teenage daughter of a friend, we used
her own 'normal' harness, but were careful to ensure that the waist belt was
high above the hips and really cinched in.  One of the advantages of the
Ouistiti is that the buckles are at the back, so it's harder for the child
to fiddle with them when you're not looking.

Steve (P)

Steve Gray wrote:

> Since this thread is about harnesses, I suppose I could risk a serious
> question. Is it still accepted wisdom that hipless young kids need a
> full-body harness?

I believe so, hipless kids and enormously tubby adults.  (Though you don't
see many of the latter climbing for pleasure.)

> This wall was using the usual sit ones and I assume 
> that was an acceptable level of risk for the insurance company.

I guess it must have been, but just out of curiosity, how young were the
kids?

Sean
x

In message , Sean 
 writes
>Steve Gray wrote:
>
>> This wall was using the usual sit ones and I assume
>> that was an acceptable level of risk for the insurance company.
>
>I guess it must have been, but just out of curiosity, how young were the
>kids?

Six or seven up to... well, the biggest kid on the wall was me at 37.

Thinking about it, I've never been convinced that kids can fall out of a 
sit harness that's done up properly, particularly if it's got adjustable 
leg loops. It would take an upside-down lead fall at just the wrong 
angle, I'd have thought.

Maybe the real issue is that your margin for error in putting the 
harness on properly is reduced, but at these kind of walls it's done by 
the bloke in charge.

-- 
Steve Gray
Addresses munged to protect the innocent