Hi

The 12V side of my caravan have stopped working.

According to the caravan's meter, the battery has no charge, so maybe the 
battery has conked out, but I would have thought the 12V electrics would 
function while the battery is still connected and being charged.  Wouldn't 
the charger power the 12V electrics as well as charging the battery?

The battery is less than 3 years old.  Is that how long they last, or is it 
my fault for keeping it on charge all the time?  We keep the caravan at 
home, and the charger is left on all the time.  Maybe that's not a good 
idea?  I keep the cells topped up with de-ionised water, but maybe I should 
allow the battery to partially discharge before recharging it?

Thanks

Pete

"Pete"  wrote in message 
news:4vG6k.18041$zs1.9743@newsfe28.ams2...
> Hi
>
> The 12V side of my caravan have stopped working.
>
> According to the caravan's meter, the battery has no charge, so maybe 
> the battery has conked out, but I would have thought the 12V electrics 
> would function while the battery is still connected and being charged. 
> Wouldn't the charger power the 12V electrics as well as charging the 
> battery?
>
> The battery is less than 3 years old.  Is that how long they last, or 
> is it my fault for keeping it on charge all the time?  We keep the 
> caravan at home, and the charger is left on all the time.  Maybe 
> that's not a good idea?  I keep the cells topped up with de-ionised 
> water, but maybe I should allow the battery to partially discharge 
> before recharging it?
>
> Thanks
>
> Pete
>


We don't keep our battery on constant charge - not a good idea - and it 
dies about a week after we get home. However, put the mains on for 24 
hours and its back up.

Sounds like your PSU has died and is not providing supply to the system 
or to charge the battery. Daft question, but has your power input 
protection - RCD or MCB - tripped? Do the mains lights in the van - if 
you have any - work when the mains is on, or failing that is there any 
supply from a 13A socket, again if you have any?

Have you checked the fuses?


-- 
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com

"Woody"  wrote in message 
news:nuH6k.100145$9x.21112@newsfe05.ams2...
> "Pete"  wrote in message 
> news:4vG6k.18041$zs1.9743@newsfe28.ams2...
>> Hi
>>
>> The 12V side of my caravan have stopped working.
>>
>> According to the caravan's meter, the battery has no charge, so maybe the 
>> battery has conked out, but I would have thought the 12V electrics would 
>> function while the battery is still connected and being charged. Wouldn't 
>> the charger power the 12V electrics as well as charging the battery?
>>
>> The battery is less than 3 years old.  Is that how long they last, or is 
>> it my fault for keeping it on charge all the time?  We keep the caravan 
>> at home, and the charger is left on all the time.  Maybe that's not a 
>> good idea?  I keep the cells topped up with de-ionised water, but maybe I 
>> should allow the battery to partially discharge before recharging it?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Pete
>>
>
>
> We don't keep our battery on constant charge - not a good idea - and it 
> dies about a week after we get home. However, put the mains on for 24 
> hours and its back up.
>
> Sounds like your PSU has died and is not providing supply to the system or 
> to charge the battery. Daft question, but has your power input 
> protection - RCD or MCB - tripped? Do the mains lights in the van - if you 
> have any - work when the mains is on, or failing that is there any supply 
> from a 13A socket, again if you have any?
>
> Have you checked the fuses?
>
>
> -- 
> Woody
>
> harrogate three at ntlworld dot com
>
>

Thanks for your reply Woody

The power protection is OK

The mains lights work, as do the 13A sockets

It's the 12V lights and the pump (which I assume is 12V) that don't work

All the fuses on the 12V side are OK

Pete

"Pete"  wrote in message 
news:iEU6k.31312$GF6.23909@newsfe27.ams2...
>
> "Woody"  wrote in message 
> news:nuH6k.100145$9x.21112@newsfe05.ams2...
>> "Pete"  wrote in message 
>> news:4vG6k.18041$zs1.9743@newsfe28.ams2...
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> The 12V side of my caravan have stopped working.
>>>
>>> According to the caravan's meter, the battery has no charge, so 
>>> maybe the battery has conked out, but I would have thought the 12V 
>>> electrics would function while the battery is still connected and 
>>> being charged. Wouldn't the charger power the 12V electrics as well 
>>> as charging the battery?
>>>
>>> The battery is less than 3 years old.  Is that how long they last, 
>>> or is it my fault for keeping it on charge all the time?  We keep 
>>> the caravan at home, and the charger is left on all the time.  Maybe 
>>> that's not a good idea?  I keep the cells topped up with de-ionised 
>>> water, but maybe I should allow the battery to partially discharge 
>>> before recharging it?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Pete
>>>
>>
>>
>> We don't keep our battery on constant charge - not a good idea - and 
>> it dies about a week after we get home. However, put the mains on for 
>> 24 hours and its back up.
>>
>> Sounds like your PSU has died and is not providing supply to the 
>> system or to charge the battery. Daft question, but has your power 
>> input protection - RCD or MCB - tripped? Do the mains lights in the 
>> van - if you have any - work when the mains is on, or failing that is 
>> there any supply from a 13A socket, again if you have any?
>>
>> Have you checked the fuses?
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Woody
>>
>> harrogate three at ntlworld dot com
>>
>>
>
> Thanks for your reply Woody
>
> The power protection is OK
>
> The mains lights work, as do the 13A sockets
>
> It's the 12V lights and the pump (which I assume is 12V) that don't 
> work
>
> All the fuses on the 12V side are OK
>
> Pete
>
>


Then it must be your PSU/charger. If you don't have a voltmeter (and 
they are very cheap these days) try connecting a 12V flasher bulb across 
the output of the PSU with and without the battery connected. Also make 
sure if it has an input (mains) fuse that is externally accessible that 
it is not blown.

Whatever happens DO NOT open up the PSU. If it is a modern switched mode 
unit there will be capacitors in there with 300-400V or more on them and 
they can hold that charge for quite a time.


-- 
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com

"Woody"  wrote in message 
news:rF17k.25698$NN3.22362@newsfe08.ams2...
> "Pete"  wrote in message 
> news:iEU6k.31312$GF6.23909@newsfe27.ams2...
>>
>> "Woody"  wrote in message 
>> news:nuH6k.100145$9x.21112@newsfe05.ams2...
>>> "Pete"  wrote in message 
>>> news:4vG6k.18041$zs1.9743@newsfe28.ams2...
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> The 12V side of my caravan have stopped working.
>>>>
>>>> According to the caravan's meter, the battery has no charge, so maybe 
>>>> the battery has conked out, but I would have thought the 12V electrics 
>>>> would function while the battery is still connected and being charged. 
>>>> Wouldn't the charger power the 12V electrics as well as charging the 
>>>> battery?
>>>>
>>>> The battery is less than 3 years old.  Is that how long they last, or 
>>>> is it my fault for keeping it on charge all the time?  We keep the 
>>>> caravan at home, and the charger is left on all the time.  Maybe that's 
>>>> not a good idea?  I keep the cells topped up with de-ionised water, but 
>>>> maybe I should allow the battery to partially discharge before 
>>>> recharging it?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> Pete
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We don't keep our battery on constant charge - not a good idea - and it 
>>> dies about a week after we get home. However, put the mains on for 24 
>>> hours and its back up.
>>>
>>> Sounds like your PSU has died and is not providing supply to the system 
>>> or to charge the battery. Daft question, but has your power input 
>>> protection - RCD or MCB - tripped? Do the mains lights in the van - if 
>>> you have any - work when the mains is on, or failing that is there any 
>>> supply from a 13A socket, again if you have any?
>>>
>>> Have you checked the fuses?
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Woody
>>>
>>> harrogate three at ntlworld dot com
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Thanks for your reply Woody
>>
>> The power protection is OK
>>
>> The mains lights work, as do the 13A sockets
>>
>> It's the 12V lights and the pump (which I assume is 12V) that don't work
>>
>> All the fuses on the 12V side are OK
>>
>> Pete
>>
>>
>
>
> Then it must be your PSU/charger. If you don't have a voltmeter (and they 
> are very cheap these days) try connecting a 12V flasher bulb across the 
> output of the PSU with and without the battery connected. Also make sure 
> if it has an input (mains) fuse that is externally accessible that it is 
> not blown.
>
> Whatever happens DO NOT open up the PSU. If it is a modern switched mode 
> unit there will be capacitors in there with 300-400V or more on them and 
> they can hold that charge for quite a time.
>
>
> -- 
> Woody
>

I purchased a multimeter.  I charged the battery up and it seems to be OK

The charger gives out around 5V, dropping to 0.5V at the battery connectors

I presume the charger should give out just over 12V?

Pete

"Pete"  wrote in message 
news:bcN7k.44836$zs1.39753@newsfe28.ams2...
>
> "Woody"  wrote in message 
> news:rF17k.25698$NN3.22362@newsfe08.ams2...
>> "Pete"  wrote in message 
>> news:iEU6k.31312$GF6.23909@newsfe27.ams2...
>>>
>>> "Woody"  wrote in message 
>>> news:nuH6k.100145$9x.21112@newsfe05.ams2...
>>>> "Pete"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:4vG6k.18041$zs1.9743@newsfe28.ams2...
>>>>> Hi
>>>>>
>>>>> The 12V side of my caravan have stopped working.
>>>>>
>>>>> According to the caravan's meter, the battery has no charge, so 
>>>>> maybe the battery has conked out, but I would have thought the 12V 
>>>>> electrics would function while the battery is still connected and 
>>>>> being charged. Wouldn't the charger power the 12V electrics as 
>>>>> well as charging the battery?
>>>>>
>>>>> The battery is less than 3 years old.  Is that how long they last, 
>>>>> or is it my fault for keeping it on charge all the time?  We keep 
>>>>> the caravan at home, and the charger is left on all the time. 
>>>>> Maybe that's not a good idea?  I keep the cells topped up with 
>>>>> de-ionised water, but maybe I should allow the battery to 
>>>>> partially discharge before recharging it?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>> Pete
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We don't keep our battery on constant charge - not a good idea - 
>>>> and it dies about a week after we get home. However, put the mains 
>>>> on for 24 hours and its back up.
>>>>
>>>> Sounds like your PSU has died and is not providing supply to the 
>>>> system or to charge the battery. Daft question, but has your power 
>>>> input protection - RCD or MCB - tripped? Do the mains lights in the 
>>>> van - if you have any - work when the mains is on, or failing that 
>>>> is there any supply from a 13A socket, again if you have any?
>>>>
>>>> Have you checked the fuses?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Woody
>>>>
>>>> harrogate three at ntlworld dot com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for your reply Woody
>>>
>>> The power protection is OK
>>>
>>> The mains lights work, as do the 13A sockets
>>>
>>> It's the 12V lights and the pump (which I assume is 12V) that don't 
>>> work
>>>
>>> All the fuses on the 12V side are OK
>>>
>>> Pete
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Then it must be your PSU/charger. If you don't have a voltmeter (and 
>> they are very cheap these days) try connecting a 12V flasher bulb 
>> across the output of the PSU with and without the battery connected. 
>> Also make sure if it has an input (mains) fuse that is externally 
>> accessible that it is not blown.
>>
>> Whatever happens DO NOT open up the PSU. If it is a modern switched 
>> mode unit there will be capacitors in there with 300-400V or more on 
>> them and they can hold that charge for quite a time.
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Woody
>>
>
> I purchased a multimeter.  I charged the battery up and it seems to be 
> OK
>
> The charger gives out around 5V, dropping to 0.5V at the battery 
> connectors
>
> I presume the charger should give out just over 12V?
>
> Pete
>
>


Ooh dear, that looks problematic. The battery should read around 13.2V 
when charged and settled (13.8V on charge and immediately after.) If the 
charger is only outputting 5V and 0.5V across the battery then you have 
a serious problem.

Disconnect the battery and see what voltage you find on the cables with 
the mains on, and see if voltage is present see if the lights will work. 
Whilst disconnected check the battery volts. You could have an internal 
short inside your battery which is causing the power supply/charger to 
protect itself and switch its output off. Conversely some charger units 
need to see volts from the battery before they will start to charge - 
even a 'flat' battery will show some volts, usually about 10V or above 
if no current is being drawn.

You could try connecting your car battery onto the caravan - with jumper 
cables if you like - and see what happens. Disconnect the -ve on the car 
before connecting to the 'van just to make sure you do no damage. Check 
the battery volts before connection, then after connection but before 
switching the mains on, and finally after the mains is on. You may see 
12.6V or 13.2V across the battery stand-alone; this voltage may drop 
slightly when connected to the 'van (check if the lights work) but 
should rise to around 13.6-13.8V when the mains is on. If it does then 
your charger is OK and the battery is a fault.

If it looks like the battery take it to a battery specialist and as them 
to check it. For a small charge they will probably give it a short fast 
charge and then load test it. If it is nadgered then you are in the 
right place to buy a new one! Oh, and get a 'leisure' battery, not a car 
battery as they are designed to have different load and usage patterns.


-- 
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com

"Woody"  wrote in message 
news:VbQ7k.39358$7m7.21428@newsfe30.ams2...
> "Pete"  wrote in message 
> news:bcN7k.44836$zs1.39753@newsfe28.ams2...
>>
>> "Woody"  wrote in message 
>> news:rF17k.25698$NN3.22362@newsfe08.ams2...
>>> "Pete"  wrote in message 
>>> news:iEU6k.31312$GF6.23909@newsfe27.ams2...
>>>>
>>>> "Woody"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:nuH6k.100145$9x.21112@newsfe05.ams2...
>>>>> "Pete"  wrote in message 
>>>>> news:4vG6k.18041$zs1.9743@newsfe28.ams2...
>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The 12V side of my caravan have stopped working.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> According to the caravan's meter, the battery has no charge, so maybe 
>>>>>> the battery has conked out, but I would have thought the 12V 
>>>>>> electrics would function while the battery is still connected and 
>>>>>> being charged. Wouldn't the charger power the 12V electrics as well 
>>>>>> as charging the battery?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The battery is less than 3 years old.  Is that how long they last, or 
>>>>>> is it my fault for keeping it on charge all the time?  We keep the 
>>>>>> caravan at home, and the charger is left on all the time. Maybe 
>>>>>> that's not a good idea?  I keep the cells topped up with de-ionised 
>>>>>> water, but maybe I should allow the battery to partially discharge 
>>>>>> before recharging it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pete
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We don't keep our battery on constant charge - not a good idea - and 
>>>>> it dies about a week after we get home. However, put the mains on for 
>>>>> 24 hours and its back up.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sounds like your PSU has died and is not providing supply to the 
>>>>> system or to charge the battery. Daft question, but has your power 
>>>>> input protection - RCD or MCB - tripped? Do the mains lights in the 
>>>>> van - if you have any - work when the mains is on, or failing that is 
>>>>> there any supply from a 13A socket, again if you have any?
>>>>>
>>>>> Have you checked the fuses?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Woody
>>>>>
>>>>> harrogate three at ntlworld dot com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your reply Woody
>>>>
>>>> The power protection is OK
>>>>
>>>> The mains lights work, as do the 13A sockets
>>>>
>>>> It's the 12V lights and the pump (which I assume is 12V) that don't 
>>>> work
>>>>
>>>> All the fuses on the 12V side are OK
>>>>
>>>> Pete
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Then it must be your PSU/charger. If you don't have a voltmeter (and 
>>> they are very cheap these days) try connecting a 12V flasher bulb across 
>>> the output of the PSU with and without the battery connected. Also make 
>>> sure if it has an input (mains) fuse that is externally accessible that 
>>> it is not blown.
>>>
>>> Whatever happens DO NOT open up the PSU. If it is a modern switched mode 
>>> unit there will be capacitors in there with 300-400V or more on them and 
>>> they can hold that charge for quite a time.
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Woody
>>>
>>
>> I purchased a multimeter.  I charged the battery up and it seems to be OK
>>
>> The charger gives out around 5V, dropping to 0.5V at the battery 
>> connectors
>>
>> I presume the charger should give out just over 12V?
>>
>> Pete
>>
>>
>
>
> Ooh dear, that looks problematic. The battery should read around 13.2V 
> when charged and settled (13.8V on charge and immediately after.) If the 
> charger is only outputting 5V and 0.5V across the battery then you have a 
> serious problem.
>
> Disconnect the battery and see what voltage you find on the cables with 
> the mains on, and see if voltage is present see if the lights will work. 
> Whilst disconnected check the battery volts. You could have an internal 
> short inside your battery which is causing the power supply/charger to 
> protect itself and switch its output off. Conversely some charger units 
> need to see volts from the battery before they will start to charge - even 
> a 'flat' battery will show some volts, usually about 10V or above if no 
> current is being drawn.
>
> You could try connecting your car battery onto the caravan - with jumper 
> cables if you like - and see what happens. Disconnect the -ve on the car 
> before connecting to the 'van just to make sure you do no damage. Check 
> the battery volts before connection, then after connection but before 
> switching the mains on, and finally after the mains is on. You may see 
> 12.6V or 13.2V across the battery stand-alone; this voltage may drop 
> slightly when connected to the 'van (check if the lights work) but should 
> rise to around 13.6-13.8V when the mains is on. If it does then your 
> charger is OK and the battery is a fault.
>
> If it looks like the battery take it to a battery specialist and as them 
> to check it. For a small charge they will probably give it a short fast 
> charge and then load test it. If it is nadgered then you are in the right 
> place to buy a new one! Oh, and get a 'leisure' battery, not a car battery 
> as they are designed to have different load and usage patterns.
>
>
> -- 
> Woody
>

Thanks very much for all your advice Woody.  Your suggestion that I buy a 
multimeter has saved me a few hundred quid

I'm fairly confident that the battery is OK, because since I charged it up, 
I've been using it for a couple of days in the caravan without any problems

That basically narrowed it down to the charger

I rang a few caravan sales / repair companies, and due to the charger being 
an integral part of the power supply system, the whole lot was going to need 
replacing at around £350 plus fitting.  Unfortunately none of them could do 
the work this side of August due to them being so busy

I therefore rang a local mobile caravan repairer - Dr Caravan Mobile 
Services:

http://www.caravandoctor.bravehost.com

The reason for the shameless plug is that, even though he knew I was 
prepared to pay him to do the repair, he gave me an idea that saved me 
hundreds of pounds and earned him nothing at all.  He suggested I buy a 
cheap leisure battery charger and fit it permanently into the caravan.  I 
suppose I should have thought of that myself, but I didn't!

£35 pounds an an hour later, the problem is fixed

Cheers

Pete

"Pete"  wrote in message 
news:sc78k.134845$9x.43348@newsfe05.ams2...
>
> "Woody"  wrote in message 
> news:VbQ7k.39358$7m7.21428@newsfe30.ams2...
>> "Pete"  wrote in message 
>> news:bcN7k.44836$zs1.39753@newsfe28.ams2...
>>>
>>> "Woody"  wrote in message 
>>> news:rF17k.25698$NN3.22362@newsfe08.ams2...
>>>> "Pete"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:iEU6k.31312$GF6.23909@newsfe27.ams2...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Woody"  wrote in message 
>>>>> news:nuH6k.100145$9x.21112@newsfe05.ams2...
>>>>>> "Pete"  wrote in message 
>>>>>> news:4vG6k.18041$zs1.9743@newsfe28.ams2...
>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The 12V side of my caravan have stopped working.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> According to the caravan's meter, the battery has no charge, so 
>>>>>>> maybe the battery has conked out, but I would have thought the 12V 
>>>>>>> electrics would function while the battery is still connected and 
>>>>>>> being charged. Wouldn't the charger power the 12V electrics as well 
>>>>>>> as charging the battery?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The battery is less than 3 years old.  Is that how long they last, 
>>>>>>> or is it my fault for keeping it on charge all the time?  We keep 
>>>>>>> the caravan at home, and the charger is left on all the time. Maybe 
>>>>>>> that's not a good idea?  I keep the cells topped up with de-ionised 
>>>>>>> water, but maybe I should allow the battery to partially discharge 
>>>>>>> before recharging it?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pete
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We don't keep our battery on constant charge - not a good idea - and 
>>>>>> it dies about a week after we get home. However, put the mains on for 
>>>>>> 24 hours and its back up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sounds like your PSU has died and is not providing supply to the 
>>>>>> system or to charge the battery. Daft question, but has your power 
>>>>>> input protection - RCD or MCB - tripped? Do the mains lights in the 
>>>>>> van - if you have any - work when the mains is on, or failing that is 
>>>>>> there any supply from a 13A socket, again if you have any?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have you checked the fuses?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Woody
>>>>>>
>>>>>> harrogate three at ntlworld dot com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for your reply Woody
>>>>>
>>>>> The power protection is OK
>>>>>
>>>>> The mains lights work, as do the 13A sockets
>>>>>
>>>>> It's the 12V lights and the pump (which I assume is 12V) that don't 
>>>>> work
>>>>>
>>>>> All the fuses on the 12V side are OK
>>>>>
>>>>> Pete
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Then it must be your PSU/charger. If you don't have a voltmeter (and 
>>>> they are very cheap these days) try connecting a 12V flasher bulb 
>>>> across the output of the PSU with and without the battery connected. 
>>>> Also make sure if it has an input (mains) fuse that is externally 
>>>> accessible that it is not blown.
>>>>
>>>> Whatever happens DO NOT open up the PSU. If it is a modern switched 
>>>> mode unit there will be capacitors in there with 300-400V or more on 
>>>> them and they can hold that charge for quite a time.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Woody
>>>>
>>>
>>> I purchased a multimeter.  I charged the battery up and it seems to be 
>>> OK
>>>
>>> The charger gives out around 5V, dropping to 0.5V at the battery 
>>> connectors
>>>
>>> I presume the charger should give out just over 12V?
>>>
>>> Pete
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Ooh dear, that looks problematic. The battery should read around 13.2V 
>> when charged and settled (13.8V on charge and immediately after.) If the 
>> charger is only outputting 5V and 0.5V across the battery then you have a 
>> serious problem.
>>
>> Disconnect the battery and see what voltage you find on the cables with 
>> the mains on, and see if voltage is present see if the lights will work. 
>> Whilst disconnected check the battery volts. You could have an internal 
>> short inside your battery which is causing the power supply/charger to 
>> protect itself and switch its output off. Conversely some charger units 
>> need to see volts from the battery before they will start to charge - 
>> even a 'flat' battery will show some volts, usually about 10V or above if 
>> no current is being drawn.
>>
>> You could try connecting your car battery onto the caravan - with jumper 
>> cables if you like - and see what happens. Disconnect the -ve on the car 
>> before connecting to the 'van just to make sure you do no damage. Check 
>> the battery volts before connection, then after connection but before 
>> switching the mains on, and finally after the mains is on. You may see 
>> 12.6V or 13.2V across the battery stand-alone; this voltage may drop 
>> slightly when connected to the 'van (check if the lights work) but should 
>> rise to around 13.6-13.8V when the mains is on. If it does then your 
>> charger is OK and the battery is a fault.
>>
>> If it looks like the battery take it to a battery specialist and as them 
>> to check it. For a small charge they will probably give it a short fast 
>> charge and then load test it. If it is nadgered then you are in the right 
>> place to buy a new one! Oh, and get a 'leisure' battery, not a car 
>> battery as they are designed to have different load and usage patterns.
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Woody
>>
>
> Thanks very much for all your advice Woody.  Your suggestion that I buy a 
> multimeter has saved me a few hundred quid
>
> I'm fairly confident that the battery is OK, because since I charged it 
> up, I've been using it for a couple of days in the caravan without any 
> problems
>
> That basically narrowed it down to the charger
>
> I rang a few caravan sales / repair companies, and due to the charger 
> being an integral part of the power supply system, the whole lot was going 
> to need replacing at around £350 plus fitting.  Unfortunately none of them 
> could do the work this side of August due to them being so busy
>
> I therefore rang a local mobile caravan repairer - Dr Caravan Mobile 
> Services:
>
> http://www.caravandoctor.bravehost.com
>
> The reason for the shameless plug is that, even though he knew I was 
> prepared to pay him to do the repair, he gave me an idea that saved me 
> hundreds of pounds and earned him nothing at all.  He suggested I buy a 
> cheap leisure battery charger and fit it permanently into the caravan.  I 
> suppose I should have thought of that myself, but I didn't!
>
> £35 pounds an an hour later, the problem is fixed
>
> Cheers
>
> Pete
>

Hi Pete,

I don't want to put the mockers on the saving, BUT, that's why the caravan 
manufactures put a PSU in the van, so it will run the lights, pump etc, and
a charger (only) won't so don't use any 12v power when using the charger.

what you need is a regulated PSU (power supply unit) that is regulated to
13.8 Volts, and as higher amperage as you can get (20-50Amp)

Metwo

> Thanks very much for all your advice Woody.  Your suggestion that I 
> buy a
> multimeter has saved me a few hundred quid
>
> I'm fairly confident that the battery is OK, because since I charged 
> it up, I've been using it for a couple of days in the caravan without 
> any problems
>
> That basically narrowed it down to the charger
>
> I rang a few caravan sales / repair companies, and due to the charger 
> being an integral part of the power supply system, the whole lot was 
> going to need replacing at around £350 plus fitting.  Unfortunately 
> none of them could do the work this side of August due to them being 
> so busy
>
> I therefore rang a local mobile caravan repairer - Dr Caravan Mobile 
> Services:
>
> http://www.caravandoctor.bravehost.com
>
> The reason for the shameless plug is that, even though he knew I was 
> prepared to pay him to do the repair, he gave me an idea that saved me 
> hundreds of pounds and earned him nothing at all.  He suggested I buy 
> a cheap leisure battery charger and fit it permanently into the 
> caravan.  I suppose I should have thought of that myself, but I 
> didn't!
>
> £35 pounds an an hour later, the problem is fixed
>
> Cheers
>
> Pete
>


Oh dear, that may actually cause you even more problems.

The power supply in the caravan will probably be a very efficient 
switched mode unit no more than about 8"x6"x2" and supplying a stable 
and clean supply of about 13.5V and capable of providing 12A or more. 
This will provide enough current to feed all of your 12V lights, your 
pump(s), your heater fan, your fridge light, your TV aerial amp and your 
cooker igniter and still have enough left to provide some charge to the 
battery and even supply your (fitted) car radio/CD player if you have 
one and possibly even your LCD TV.

The charger you have bought however will be unregulated so could, under 
fault conditions (like your battery becomes disconnected) put anything 
up to 20V across the power lines. Also it will have no smoothing so will 
put a quite large 'ripple' on the supply rails which could cause hum on 
a radio or hum and visual patterning on your 12V TV. It's capability may 
be 4A or so - which really will not power very much.

I think your caravan dealer has possibly be suffering a bit of 'truth 
economy.' I would be very surprised if a SMPS (switched-mode power 
supply as they are known) is an 'integral' part of the caravan system. 
Go digging and look for a box about the size described, possibly with a 
part vented or grilled case, and with a mains lead connected to it 
(usually a wired connection) and also a '12V' output one wire of which 
(-ve or earth) will be white. Mine is mounted on one of the wooden 
support member of the N/S/F seat facing the mains RCD/MCB switch box and 
immediately behind the external battery box.

If you find it, make sure the mains has been off for at least 24 hours, 
and disconnect the cables (it may need the cover to be removed) taking 
care to insulate each wire as it comes free - just for safety. Then 
remove the unit. As the caravan is British made it will very like have a 
UK sourced (though not necessarily British manufactured) unit a 
replacement for which you may be able to find on the Internet. The model 
number may well give you an idea of its rating - for instance if it is 
something like SMPS 12/150 it indicates a nominal 12V output at 150W or 
theoretically about 12.5A current. You do not need to buy the same unit 
to replace it if you cannot find one - anything that does a nominal 12V 
at about the same (or greater) power capability, and has similar 
connections (i.e. screws rather than a plug-on connector.) Many SMPS 
units are multi-voltage (+ and - 5V, + and - 12V, + and - 24V) - DO NOT 
get one of these as they require current to be drawn off the +5V rail 
before the other outputs will deliver any power at all. Also most of the 
power capability is at 5V and the other rails will be relatively low 
power. If you get a +12V single supply unit it will also likely have a 
control (by screwdriver) to adjust the output voltage. For a 150W supply 
I would not expect to pay more than about £60 for a professional unit, 
or you can get SMPS units that are commonly available for the amateur 
radio market that can deliver a regulated fixed 13.8V at 22A for not 
much more - look at www.wsplc.co.uk or 
http://www.powersuppliesonline.co.uk/product/12v-12a-caravan-charger/l08ab/default.htm


-- 
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com

Excellent reply that man

Rob

www.rawright.co.uk

"Woody"  wrote in message 
news:NKb8k.44136$7m7.27453@newsfe30.ams2...
>
>> Thanks very much for all your advice Woody.  Your suggestion that I buy a
>> multimeter has saved me a few hundred quid
>>
>> I'm fairly confident that the battery is OK, because since I charged it 
>> up, I've been using it for a couple of days in the caravan without any 
>> problems
>>
>> That basically narrowed it down to the charger
>>
>> I rang a few caravan sales / repair companies, and due to the charger 
>> being an integral part of the power supply system, the whole lot was 
>> going to need replacing at around £350 plus fitting.  Unfortunately none 
>> of them could do the work this side of August due to them being so busy
>>
>> I therefore rang a local mobile caravan repairer - Dr Caravan Mobile 
>> Services:
>>
>> http://www.caravandoctor.bravehost.com
>>
>> The reason for the shameless plug is that, even though he knew I was 
>> prepared to pay him to do the repair, he gave me an idea that saved me 
>> hundreds of pounds and earned him nothing at all.  He suggested I buy a 
>> cheap leisure battery charger and fit it permanently into the caravan.  I 
>> suppose I should have thought of that myself, but I didn't!
>>
>> £35 pounds an an hour later, the problem is fixed
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Pete
>>
>
>
> Oh dear, that may actually cause you even more problems.
>
> The power supply in the caravan will probably be a very efficient switched 
> mode unit no more than about 8"x6"x2" and supplying a stable and clean 
> supply of about 13.5V and capable of providing 12A or more. This will 
> provide enough current to feed all of your 12V lights, your pump(s), your 
> heater fan, your fridge light, your TV aerial amp and your cooker igniter 
> and still have enough left to provide some charge to the battery and even 
> supply your (fitted) car radio/CD player if you have one and possibly even 
> your LCD TV.
>
> The charger you have bought however will be unregulated so could, under 
> fault conditions (like your battery becomes disconnected) put anything up 
> to 20V across the power lines. Also it will have no smoothing so will put 
> a quite large 'ripple' on the supply rails which could cause hum on a 
> radio or hum and visual patterning on your 12V TV. It's capability may be 
> 4A or so - which really will not power very much.
>
> I think your caravan dealer has possibly be suffering a bit of 'truth 
> economy.' I would be very surprised if a SMPS (switched-mode power supply 
> as they are known) is an 'integral' part of the caravan system. Go digging 
> and look for a box about the size described, possibly with a part vented 
> or grilled case, and with a mains lead connected to it (usually a wired 
> connection) and also a '12V' output one wire of which (-ve or earth) will 
> be white. Mine is mounted on one of the wooden support member of the N/S/F 
> seat facing the mains RCD/MCB switch box and immediately behind the 
> external battery box.
>
> If you find it, make sure the mains has been off for at least 24 hours, 
> and disconnect the cables (it may need the cover to be removed) taking 
> care to insulate each wire as it comes free - just for safety. Then remove 
> the unit. As the caravan is British made it will very like have a UK 
> sourced (though not necessarily British manufactured) unit a replacement 
> for which you may be able to find on the Internet. The model number may 
> well give you an idea of its rating - for instance if it is something like 
> SMPS 12/150 it indicates a nominal 12V output at 150W or theoretically 
> about 12.5A current. You do not need to buy the same unit to replace it if 
> you cannot find one - anything that does a nominal 12V at about the same 
> (or greater) power capability, and has similar connections (i.e. screws 
> rather than a plug-on connector.) Many SMPS units are multi-voltage (+ 
> and - 5V, + and - 12V, + and - 24V) - DO NOT get one of these as they 
> require current to be drawn off the +5V rail before the other outputs will 
> deliver any power at all. Also most of the power capability is at 5V and 
> the other rails will be relatively low power. If you get a +12V single 
> supply unit it will also likely have a control (by screwdriver) to adjust 
> the output voltage. For a 150W supply I would not expect to pay more than 
> about £60 for a professional unit, or you can get SMPS units that are 
> commonly available for the amateur radio market that can deliver a 
> regulated fixed 13.8V at 22A for not much more - look at www.wsplc.co.uk 
> or 
> http://www.powersuppliesonline.co.uk/product/12v-12a-caravan-charger/l08ab/default.htm
>
>
> -- 
> Woody
>
> harrogate three at ntlworld dot com
>
>
>

"METWO"  wrote in message 
news:kuqdndQ3DeixvfzVnZ2dnUVZ8u6dnZ2d@bt.com...
> "Pete"  wrote in message 
> news:sc78k.134845$9x.43348@newsfe05.ams2...
>>
>> "Woody"  wrote in message 
>> news:VbQ7k.39358$7m7.21428@newsfe30.ams2...
>>> "Pete"  wrote in message 
>>> news:bcN7k.44836$zs1.39753@newsfe28.ams2...
>>>>
>>>> "Woody"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:rF17k.25698$NN3.22362@newsfe08.ams2...
>>>>> "Pete"  wrote in message 
>>>>> news:iEU6k.31312$GF6.23909@newsfe27.ams2...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Woody"  wrote in message 
>>>>>> news:nuH6k.100145$9x.21112@newsfe05.ams2...
>>>>>>> "Pete"  wrote in message 
>>>>>>> news:4vG6k.18041$zs1.9743@newsfe28.ams2...
>>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The 12V side of my caravan have stopped working.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> According to the caravan's meter, the battery has no charge, so 
>>>>>>>> maybe the battery has conked out, but I would have thought the 12V 
>>>>>>>> electrics would function while the battery is still connected and 
>>>>>>>> being charged. Wouldn't the charger power the 12V electrics as well 
>>>>>>>> as charging the battery?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The battery is less than 3 years old.  Is that how long they last, 
>>>>>>>> or is it my fault for keeping it on charge all the time?  We keep 
>>>>>>>> the caravan at home, and the charger is left on all the time. Maybe 
>>>>>>>> that's not a good idea?  I keep the cells topped up with de-ionised 
>>>>>>>> water, but maybe I should allow the battery to partially discharge 
>>>>>>>> before recharging it?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pete
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We don't keep our battery on constant charge - not a good idea - and 
>>>>>>> it dies about a week after we get home. However, put the mains on 
>>>>>>> for 24 hours and its back up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sounds like your PSU has died and is not providing supply to the 
>>>>>>> system or to charge the battery. Daft question, but has your power 
>>>>>>> input protection - RCD or MCB - tripped? Do the mains lights in the 
>>>>>>> van - if you have any - work when the mains is on, or failing that 
>>>>>>> is there any supply from a 13A socket, again if you have any?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Have you checked the fuses?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> Woody
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> harrogate three at ntlworld dot com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for your reply Woody
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The power protection is OK
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The mains lights work, as do the 13A sockets
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's the 12V lights and the pump (which I assume is 12V) that don't 
>>>>>> work
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All the fuses on the 12V side are OK
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pete
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Then it must be your PSU/charger. If you don't have a voltmeter (and 
>>>>> they are very cheap these days) try connecting a 12V flasher bulb 
>>>>> across the output of the PSU with and without the battery connected. 
>>>>> Also make sure if it has an input (mains) fuse that is externally 
>>>>> accessible that it is not blown.
>>>>>
>>>>> Whatever happens DO NOT open up the PSU. If it is a modern switched 
>>>>> mode unit there will be capacitors in there with 300-400V or more on 
>>>>> them and they can hold that charge for quite a time.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Woody
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I purchased a multimeter.  I charged the battery up and it seems to be 
>>>> OK
>>>>
>>>> The charger gives out around 5V, dropping to 0.5V at the battery 
>>>> connectors
>>>>
>>>> I presume the charger should give out just over 12V?
>>>>
>>>> Pete
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ooh dear, that looks problematic. The battery should read around 13.2V 
>>> when charged and settled (13.8V on charge and immediately after.) If the 
>>> charger is only outputting 5V and 0.5V across the battery then you have 
>>> a serious problem.
>>>
>>> Disconnect the battery and see what voltage you find on the cables with 
>>> the mains on, and see if voltage is present see if the lights will work. 
>>> Whilst disconnected check the battery volts. You could have an internal 
>>> short inside your battery which is causing the power supply/charger to 
>>> protect itself and switch its output off. Conversely some charger units 
>>> need to see volts from the battery before they will start to charge - 
>>> even a 'flat' battery will show some volts, usually about 10V or above 
>>> if no current is being drawn.
>>>
>>> You could try connecting your car battery onto the caravan - with jumper 
>>> cables if you like - and see what happens. Disconnect the -ve on the car 
>>> before connecting to the 'van just to make sure you do no damage. Check 
>>> the battery volts before connection, then after connection but before 
>>> switching the mains on, and finally after the mains is on. You may see 
>>> 12.6V or 13.2V across the battery stand-alone; this voltage may drop 
>>> slightly when connected to the 'van (check if the lights work) but 
>>> should rise to around 13.6-13.8V when the mains is on. If it does then 
>>> your charger is OK and the battery is a fault.
>>>
>>> If it looks like the battery take it to a battery specialist and as them 
>>> to check it. For a small charge they will probably give it a short fast 
>>> charge and then load test it. If it is nadgered then you are in the 
>>> right place to buy a new one! Oh, and get a 'leisure' battery, not a car 
>>> battery as they are designed to have different load and usage patterns.
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Woody
>>>
>>
>> Thanks very much for all your advice Woody.  Your suggestion that I buy a 
>> multimeter has saved me a few hundred quid
>>
>> I'm fairly confident that the battery is OK, because since I charged it 
>> up, I've been using it for a couple of days in the caravan without any 
>> problems
>>
>> That basically narrowed it down to the charger
>>
>> I rang a few caravan sales / repair companies, and due to the charger 
>> being an integral part of the power supply system, the whole lot was 
>> going to need replacing at around £350 plus fitting.  Unfortunately none 
>> of them could do the work this side of August due to them being so busy
>>
>> I therefore rang a local mobile caravan repairer - Dr Caravan Mobile 
>> Services:
>>
>> http://www.caravandoctor.bravehost.com
>>
>> The reason for the shameless plug is that, even though he knew I was 
>> prepared to pay him to do the repair, he gave me an idea that saved me 
>> hundreds of pounds and earned him nothing at all.  He suggested I buy a 
>> cheap leisure battery charger and fit it permanently into the caravan.  I 
>> suppose I should have thought of that myself, but I didn't!
>>
>> £35 pounds an an hour later, the problem is fixed
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Pete
>>
>
> Hi Pete,
>
> I don't want to put the mockers on the saving, BUT, that's why the caravan 
> manufactures put a PSU in the van, so it will run the lights, pump etc, 
> and
> a charger (only) won't so don't use any 12v power when using the charger.
>
> what you need is a regulated PSU (power supply unit) that is regulated to
> 13.8 Volts, and as higher amperage as you can get (20-50Amp)
>
> Metwo
>

Thanks Metwo

I'm using the caravan for 2 weeks as of next week, so it looks as if I'll 
have to use the battery with the charger disconnected then recharge as 
necessary while we're out and about

Then I'll need to get the experts to repair it when I get back

Cheers

Pete

"Woody"  wrote in message 
news:NKb8k.44136$7m7.27453@newsfe30.ams2...
>
>> Thanks very much for all your advice Woody.  Your suggestion that I buy a
>> multimeter has saved me a few hundred quid
>>
>> I'm fairly confident that the battery is OK, because since I charged it 
>> up, I've been using it for a couple of days in the caravan without any 
>> problems
>>
>> That basically narrowed it down to the charger
>>
>> I rang a few caravan sales / repair companies, and due to the charger 
>> being an integral part of the power supply system, the whole lot was 
>> going to need replacing at around £350 plus fitting.  Unfortunately none 
>> of them could do the work this side of August due to them being so busy
>>
>> I therefore rang a local mobile caravan repairer - Dr Caravan Mobile 
>> Services:
>>
>> http://www.caravandoctor.bravehost.com
>>
>> The reason for the shameless plug is that, even though he knew I was 
>> prepared to pay him to do the repair, he gave me an idea that saved me 
>> hundreds of pounds and earned him nothing at all.  He suggested I buy a 
>> cheap leisure battery charger and fit it permanently into the caravan.  I 
>> suppose I should have thought of that myself, but I didn't!
>>
>> £35 pounds an an hour later, the problem is fixed
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Pete
>>
>
>
> Oh dear, that may actually cause you even more problems.
>
> The power supply in the caravan will probably be a very efficient switched 
> mode unit no more than about 8"x6"x2" and supplying a stable and clean 
> supply of about 13.5V and capable of providing 12A or more. This will 
> provide enough current to feed all of your 12V lights, your pump(s), your 
> heater fan, your fridge light, your TV aerial amp and your cooker igniter 
> and still have enough left to provide some charge to the battery and even 
> supply your (fitted) car radio/CD player if you have one and possibly even 
> your LCD TV.
>
> The charger you have bought however will be unregulated so could, under 
> fault conditions (like your battery becomes disconnected) put anything up 
> to 20V across the power lines. Also it will have no smoothing so will put 
> a quite large 'ripple' on the supply rails which could cause hum on a 
> radio or hum and visual patterning on your 12V TV. It's capability may be 
> 4A or so - which really will not power very much.
>
> I think your caravan dealer has possibly be suffering a bit of 'truth 
> economy.' I would be very surprised if a SMPS (switched-mode power supply 
> as they are known) is an 'integral' part of the caravan system. Go digging 
> and look for a box about the size described, possibly with a part vented 
> or grilled case, and with a mains lead connected to it (usually a wired 
> connection) and also a '12V' output one wire of which (-ve or earth) will 
> be white. Mine is mounted on one of the wooden support member of the N/S/F 
> seat facing the mains RCD/MCB switch box and immediately behind the 
> external battery box.
>
> If you find it, make sure the mains has been off for at least 24 hours, 
> and disconnect the cables (it may need the cover to be removed) taking 
> care to insulate each wire as it comes free - just for safety. Then remove 
> the unit. As the caravan is British made it will very like have a UK 
> sourced (though not necessarily British manufactured) unit a replacement 
> for which you may be able to find on the Internet. The model number may 
> well give you an idea of its rating - for instance if it is something like 
> SMPS 12/150 it indicates a nominal 12V output at 150W or theoretically 
> about 12.5A current. You do not need to buy the same unit to replace it if 
> you cannot find one - anything that does a nominal 12V at about the same 
> (or greater) power capability, and has similar connections (i.e. screws 
> rather than a plug-on connector.) Many SMPS units are multi-voltage (+ 
> and - 5V, + and - 12V, + and - 24V) - DO NOT get one of these as they 
> require current to be drawn off the +5V rail before the other outputs will 
> deliver any power at all. Also most of the power capability is at 5V and 
> the other rails will be relatively low power. If you get a +12V single 
> supply unit it will also likely have a control (by screwdriver) to adjust 
> the output voltage. For a 150W supply I would not expect to pay more than 
> about £60 for a professional unit, or you can get SMPS units that are 
> commonly available for the amateur radio market that can deliver a 
> regulated fixed 13.8V at 22A for not much more - look at www.wsplc.co.uk 
> or 
> http://www.powersuppliesonline.co.uk/product/12v-12a-caravan-charger/l08ab/default.htm
>
>
> -- 
> Woody
>

Thanks for your detailed reply Woody

I'm a bit out of my depth with this, so I'll have it repaired by a caravan 
repairer when I get back from my hols

For the duration of this holiday I'll have to recharge the battery every few 
days when I'm not using it to power any 12V equipment

Cheers

Pete

"tick"  wrote in message 
news:C37Lk.77123$0t2.1329@newsfe29.ams2...
>I am after a broadband package to run on a laptop.
> I would like a Pay and Go but only pay for what I use
> Most appear to be a fixed monthly fee of about £10 ish
> is it possible to get a internet on a cheap tarrif, I only use the 
> internet mostly for emails also to see what is on in the area.
> Possibly would use it for 5/6 weeks a year
> thanks

I understand the 3 Network do PAYG Mobile Broadband.

David - Milton Keynes
www.caravantravels.co.uk

New Caravan Diary www.davidklyne.co.uk/germany_calling_2008.htm

"David Klyne"  wrote in message 
news:XbednadqEunpcGDVnZ2dnUVZ8svinZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>
>
>
>
> "tick"  wrote in message 
> news:C37Lk.77123$0t2.1329@newsfe29.ams2...
>>I am after a broadband package to run on a laptop.
>> I would like a Pay and Go but only pay for what I use
>> Most appear to be a fixed monthly fee of about £10 ish
>> is it possible to get a internet on a cheap tarrif, I only use the 
>> internet mostly for emails also to see what is on in the area.
>> Possibly would use it for 5/6 weeks a year
>> thanks
>
> I understand the 3 Network do PAYG Mobile Broadband.
>
> David - Milton Keynes
> www.caravantravels.co.uk
>
> New Caravan Diary www.davidklyne.co.uk/germany_calling_2008.htm



When using the 3 payg  mobile broadband SIM, there is a way to get unlimited 
use (fair use cap) for only £5.00 monthly

It's not official (and I'm not going to spill the beans) but a bit of 
research should pay dividends ;)

I started using their 'official' 3 mb for £15 top up - but found that I was 
using only about a quarter of a meg monthly (partly due to fairly slow 
sppeds)

The swapped to the £10 for 1mb plan - but still hardly scratched the 
download allowance

The fiver for all you can use is ideal - especially since I hardly use the 
allowance anyway.

I don't feel at all guilty - it's 3's own software glitch - and they never 
felt guilty about expiring my £15 credit when it had hardly been used.

Part of the reason it goes undetected is that those using it are careful not 
to abuse the 'unlimited' status - if generally known, some git would start 
downloading gigs of data, 3 would cotton on, and it would be stuffed for all 
of us.