My daughter passed her test in 1999 and since then has married and has now 
got a family. Her car of preference is a people carrier and, given that she 
grew up caravanning, she has bought a second hand caravan that has a maximum 
weight of 1200 kg. Problem is that, as she passed her test after 1997, she 
is not allowed to tow the van as the total max train weight just exceeds 3.5 
tonnes, which means a separate driving test and L plates on the van! A full 
course of 'caravan' towing lessons is over £800 and the test is £90, which 
means she cannot afford to caravan. Daft thing is, she could downsize the 
car by 100 kg and then be legal to tow. How does that make her more 
competent and, how many people are towing illegally and don't realise it? 
Daft I call it, Harry

"Harry Pleavin"  wrote in message 
news:1dW3k.26213$pu3.9685@newsfe05.ams2...
> My daughter passed her test in 1999 and since then has married and has now 
> got a family. Her car of preference is a people carrier and, given that 
> she grew up caravanning, she has bought a second hand caravan that has a 
> maximum weight of 1200 kg. Problem is that, as she passed her test after 
> 1997, she is not allowed to tow the van as the total max train weight just 
> exceeds 3.5 tonnes, which means a separate driving test and L plates on 
> the van! A full course of 'caravan' towing lessons is over £800 and the 
> test is £90, which means she cannot afford to caravan. Daft thing is, she 
> could downsize the car by 100 kg and then be legal to tow. How does that 
> make her more competent and, how many people are towing illegally and 
> don't realise it? Daft I call it, Harry

You know I never thought about this, I knew there was a date from which one 
is not allowed as you and I am allowed to tow.   But I never heard of anyone 
advertising to give towing lessons so I wonder if people do have them.   Any 
rules to stop you giving instruction or someone giving free lessons? 
Therefore only test to pay for?

-- 
Regards,
David

Please reply to News Group

"Harry Pleavin"  wrote in news:1dW3k.26213
$pu3.9685@newsfe05.ams2:

> the total max train weight just exceeds 3.5 tonnes, 

Slight hope here is that some cars have their MTW "artificially pegged" to 
3.5 tonnes to permit post-1996 license holder to use those cars for towing. 
Have you checked the VIN plate to see what the largest figure is? Assuming 
it's S-reg or later, it must have a MTW figure. So even if the MAM of the 
car is over 2,300kg with a 'van MTPLM of 1,200kg, if that MTW figure is 
3,500 or less, the chances are the outfit will be within her entitlement.

Here's hoping ...

Geoff

"Geoff Lane" <geoff@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> "Harry Pleavin"  wrote in
>
>> the total max train weight just exceeds 3.5 tonnes,
>
> Slight hope here is that some cars have their MTW "artificially pegged" to
> 3.5 tonnes to permit post-1996 license holder to use those cars for 
> towing.
> Have you checked the VIN plate to see what the largest figure is? Assuming
> it's S-reg or later, it must have a MTW figure. So even if the MAM of the
> car is over 2,300kg with a 'van MTPLM of 1,200kg, if that MTW figure is
> 3,500 or less, the chances are the outfit will be within her entitlement.
>
I still have groups B+E on my 3 year (medically-restricted) licence - 
although I had to write and ask for the E bit to be reinstated. I passed my 
test in 1968. The 7500kg limit is automatically rescinded on issue of the 
three-year licences

I queried the allowances with DVLA and received the following reply;
"Providing the vehicle used to tow the trailer does not exceed 3500kg 
Maximum Authorised Mass, then any size trailer may be towed behind this 
vehicle under the category BE entitlement".

Paul

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Paul U   wrote:

>>
> I still have groups B+E on my 3 year (medically-restricted) licence -
> although I had to write and ask for the E bit to be reinstated. I
> passed my test in 1968. The 7500kg limit is automatically rescinded
> on issue of the three-year licences
>
> I queried the allowances with DVLA and received the following reply;
> "Providing the vehicle used to tow the trailer does not exceed 3500kg
> Maximum Authorised Mass, then any size trailer may be towed behind
> this vehicle under the category BE entitlement".
>
> Paul

But surely, there's a difference between someone whose B+E entitlement 
lapses with age or medical condition, and someone who never had it because 
of taking their test after the critical date.

In the first case, the entitlement can be re-instated on production of 
suitable medical evidence whilst in the second case it can only be gained by 
taking an additional test.
-- 
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

"Roger Mills"  wrote in
news:6bc4nnF3arh1mU1@mid.individual.net: 

> But surely, there's a difference between someone whose B+E entitlement
> lapses with age or medical condition, and someone who never had it
> because of taking their test after the critical date.
> 
> In the first case, the entitlement can be re-instated on production of
> suitable medical evidence whilst in the second case it can only be
> gained by taking an additional test.

You don't lose your BE entitlement when you hit 70 or move to three-year 
licenses for medical reasons. What you do lose is your entitlement to C1, 
C1E, D1, and D1E that you had under "grandfather's rights". IOW, you lose 
the entitlement to drive vehicles (as opposed to vehicle combinations) over 
3,500kg (but not more than 7,500kg) or with more than 8 passenger seats.

If your license has changed for medical reasons or you lost those 
categories because of age you can reinstate those groups by passing a class 
2 medical (i.e. the one that HGV drivers need) and submitting the results 
with an application form to DVLA.

http://www.dvla.gov.uk/media/pdf/leaflets/inf4d.pdf is a DVLA booklet with 
more information.

HTH,

Geoff

"Harry Pleavin"  wrote in message 
news:1dW3k.26213$pu3.9685@newsfe05.ams2...
> My daughter passed her test in 1999 and since then has married and has now 
> got a family. Her car of preference is a people carrier and, given that 
> she grew up caravanning, she has bought a second hand caravan that has a 
> maximum weight of 1200 kg. Problem is that, as she passed her test after 
> 1997, she is not allowed to tow the van as the total max train weight just 
> exceeds 3.5 tonnes, which means a separate driving test and L plates on 
> the van! A full course of 'caravan' towing lessons is over £800 and the 
> test is £90, which means she cannot afford to caravan. Daft thing is, she 
> could downsize the car by 100 kg and then be legal to tow. How does that 
> make her more competent
It doesn't, but there has to be a limit somewhere.

What will (hopefully) make her more competent is having some training and 
passing the test.  This has got to be a better option than taking to the 
roads unable to complete basic manoeuvres.

In the past I trained drivers for the LGV1 (C+E) test in an artic.  In the 
vast majority of cases most of the time was spent getting their basic 
driving skills up to standard.  Reversing, which most people are frightened 
of, only took a small amount if the time.  If your daughter's driving skills 
are up to a reasonable level, which I sincerely hope thay are if 
she'splanning to go on the roads with a 30ft or more vehicle, then a few 
hours manoeuvring to become familiar with the test format needn't cost £800

> Daft I call it,
What bit is daft?  The fact that older people with no towing experience and 
no training or testing for years can take to the roads in a large vehicle or 
that testing beforehand is now compulsory?

Rgds

Andy R

Andy, the bit that is daft and I missed out, is that if her sister, who 
passed her test in 1995 and who has never towed anything at all, sits beside 
her then, providing an L plate is displayed on both car and van, the towing 
is perfectly legal even though neither has any experience at all. If this 
issue is to be addressed then, at the very least, a manoeuvring course 
similar to those the clubs run should be compulsory before towing anything 
trailer, and then L plates should be displayed until a test is passed. The 
weight issue is not important, surely it is towing a trailer that is the 
issue. Harry
"Andy R"  wrote in message 
news:6bci1dF3b1sqeU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> "Harry Pleavin"  wrote in message 
> news:1dW3k.26213$pu3.9685@newsfe05.ams2...
>> My daughter passed her test in 1999 and since then has married and has 
>> now got a family. Her car of preference is a people carrier and, given 
>> that she grew up caravanning, she has bought a second hand caravan that 
>> has a maximum weight of 1200 kg. Problem is that, as she passed her test 
>> after 1997, she is not allowed to tow the van as the total max train 
>> weight just exceeds 3.5 tonnes, which means a separate driving test and L 
>> plates on the van! A full course of 'caravan' towing lessons is over £800 
>> and the test is £90, which means she cannot afford to caravan. Daft thing 
>> is, she could downsize the car by 100 kg and then be legal to tow. How 
>> does that make her more competent
> It doesn't, but there has to be a limit somewhere.
>
> What will (hopefully) make her more competent is having some training and 
> passing the test.  This has got to be a better option than taking to the 
> roads unable to complete basic manoeuvres.
>
> In the past I trained drivers for the LGV1 (C+E) test in an artic.  In the 
> vast majority of cases most of the time was spent getting their basic 
> driving skills up to standard.  Reversing, which most people are 
> frightened of, only took a small amount if the time.  If your daughter's 
> driving skills are up to a reasonable level, which I sincerely hope thay 
> are if she'splanning to go on the roads with a 30ft or more vehicle, then 
> a few hours manoeuvring to become familiar with the test format needn't 
> cost £800
>
>> Daft I call it,
> What bit is daft?  The fact that older people with no towing experience 
> and no training or testing for years can take to the roads in a large 
> vehicle or that testing beforehand is now compulsory?
>
> Rgds
>
> Andy R
>

On Jun 12, 5:09 pm, "Harry Pleavin" 
wrote:
> Andy, the bit that is daft and I missed out, is that if her sister, who
> passed her test in 1995 and who has never towed anything at all, sits beside
> her then, providing an L plate is displayed on both car and van, the towing
> is perfectly legal even though neither has any experience at all. If this
> issue is to be addressed then, at the very least, a manoeuvring course
> similar to those the clubs run should be compulsory before towing anything> trailer, and then L plates should be displayed until a test is passed. The> weight issue is not important, surely it is towing a trailer that is the
> issue. Harry"Andy R"  wrote in message
>
> news:6bci1dF3b1sqeU1@mid.individual.net...
>
>
>
> > "Harry Pleavin"  wrote in message
> >news:1dW3k.26213$pu3.9685@newsfe05.ams2...
> >> My daughter passed her test in 1999 and since then has married and has
> >> now got a family. Her car of preference is a people carrier and, given
> >> that she grew up caravanning, she has bought a second hand caravan that> >> has a maximum weight of 1200 kg. Problem is that, as she passed her test
> >> after 1997, she is not allowed to tow the van as the total max train
> >> weight just exceeds 3.5 tonnes, which means a separate driving test and L
> >> plates on the van! A full course of 'caravan' towing lessons is over £800
> >> and the test is £90, which means she cannot afford to caravan. Daft thing
> >> is, she could downsize the car by 100 kg and then be legal to tow. How
> >> does that make her more competent
> > It doesn't, but there has to be a limit somewhere.
>
> > What will (hopefully) make her more competent is having some training and
> > passing the test.  This has got to be a better option than taking to the
> > roads unable to complete basic manoeuvres.
>
> > In the past I trained drivers for the LGV1 (C) test in an artic.  In the
> > vast majority of cases most of the time was spent getting their basic
> > driving skills up to standard.  Reversing, which most people are
> > frightened of, only took a small amount if the time.  If your daughter's
> > driving skills are up to a reasonable level, which I sincerely hope thay> > are if she'splanning to go on the roads with a 30ft or more vehicle, then
> > a few hours manoeuvring to become familiar with the test format needn't
> > cost £800
>
> >> Daft I call it,
> > What bit is daft?  The fact that older people with no towing experience
> > and no training or testing for years can take to the roads in a large
> > vehicle or that testing beforehand is now compulsory?
>
> > Rgds
>
> > Andy R

Agreed - but if she did drive and tow she would be liable for a fine
of half her net weekly income and get 3-6 points on her licence.

I would suggest that she undetakes one of the Clubs' Manoevering
courses and then gets a quick top up from a driving instructor rather
than a course of 30  hours