On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 21:25:16 +0100, Fergus O'Rourke put finger to
keyboard and typed:

>"Mark Goodge"  wrote in message 
>news:9vrga4psjj2r5gj2efo1aulimlhoe82l6j@news.markshouse.net...
>[snip]
>> No, there isn't. You have permission to observe the proceedings. That
>> is all. A courtroom is not a public place. Within a courtroom, the
>> basic principle is that anything not expressly permitted or instructed
>> is prohibited.
>[snip]
>
>Can you cite authority for these assertions ? 

http://www.oup.com/uk/orc/bin/9780199281343/01student/activities/court/
is a good starting point.

Mark

"Mark Goodge"  wrote in message 
news:qh5ia4l1p23748bq6ui808vh72fvt6gaoa@news.markshouse.net...
> On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 21:25:16 +0100, Fergus O'Rourke put finger to
> keyboard and typed:
>
>>"Mark Goodge"  wrote in message
>>news:9vrga4psjj2r5gj2efo1aulimlhoe82l6j@news.markshouse.net...
>>[snip]
>>> No, there isn't. You have permission to observe the proceedings. That
>>> is all. A courtroom is not a public place. Within a courtroom, the
>>> basic principle is that anything not expressly permitted or instructed
>>> is prohibited.
>>[snip]
>>
>>Can you cite authority for these assertions ?
>
> http://www.oup.com/uk/orc/bin/9780199281343/01student/activities/court/
> is a good starting point.

It is certainly an interesting one. But it does not answer my question any 
better than you appear to be able to do.

"Fergus O'Rourke"  wrote in message 
news:6gtg36FhbavjU1@mid.individual.net...
> "Mark Goodge"  wrote in message
> news:qh5ia4l1p23748bq6ui808vh72fvt6gaoa@news.markshouse.net...
>> On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 21:25:16 +0100, Fergus O'Rourke put finger to
>> keyboard and typed:
>>
>>>"Mark Goodge"  wrote in message
>>>news:9vrga4psjj2r5gj2efo1aulimlhoe82l6j@news.markshouse.net...
>>>[snip]
>>>> No, there isn't. You have permission to observe the proceedings. That
>>>> is all. A courtroom is not a public place. Within a courtroom, the
>>>> basic principle is that anything not expressly permitted or instructed
>>>> is prohibited.
>>>[snip]
>>>
>>>Can you cite authority for these assertions ?
>>
>> http://www.oup.com/uk/orc/bin/9780199281343/01student/activities/court/
>> is a good starting point.
>
> It is certainly an interesting one. But it does not answer my question any
> better than you appear to be able to do.

The link is to an Oxford University Press website.  The page contains the 
odd remarks I quote below:

"It is illegal to take photographs or record anything that happens in court. 
This is a serious criminal offence and formal action is highly likely to be 
taken against you if you attempt to do either of these things.
You cannot write or draw in a courtroom without the judge's permission. If 
you are visiting a court because you want to see a particular case because 
you think it will help your studies (e.g. you are writing a dissertation) 
then you may be able to get permission".

I think this advice is inaccurate and I'd find it more credible if it was on 
a Court Service or other government website. Or, of course, if it quoted 
some real law.

I (probably like you) have been to court on many hundreds of occasions.  I 
have never heard a judge rebuke anyone for making written notes and I have 
never heard anyone seek permission to make notes.  In any courtroom there 
are always so *many* people taking notes that it would be invidious to 
single out people who happen to be sitting at a distance from the lawyers or 
in the public gallery and rebuke them for doing what everyone else is doing.

The Contempt of Court Act 1981 prohibits tape recording in court.  It also 
provides that "court may, where it appears to be necessary for avoiding a 
substantial risk of prejudice to the administration of justice in those 
proceedings, or in any other proceedings pending or imminent, order that the 
publication of any report of the proceedings, or any part of the 
proceedings, be postponed for such period as the court thinks necessary for 
that purpose."  That would refer to rare occasions when the press and public 
are told not to publicise what has taken place in court. Obviously in such a 
situation it might be necessary to rebuke anyone who looks as if they might 
intend to flout such an order.

The Criminal Justice Act 1925 refers to photographs and sketches:

"41.
Prohibition on taking photographs, &c., in court.
- (1) No person shall-
(a)
take or attempt to take in any court any photograph, or with a view to 
publication make or attempt to make in any court any portrait or sketch, of 
any person, being a judge of the court or a juror or a witness in or a party 
to any proceedings before the court, whether civil or criminal; or
(b)
publish any photograph, portrait or sketch taken or made in contravention of 
the foregoing provisions of this section or any reproduction thereof"

In article , The Todal 
 writes
>
>"Fergus O'Rourke"  wrote in message
>news:6gtg36FhbavjU1@mid.individual.net...
>> "Mark Goodge"  wrote in message
>> news:qh5ia4l1p23748bq6ui808vh72fvt6gaoa@news.markshouse.net...
>>> On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 21:25:16 +0100, Fergus O'Rourke put finger to
>>> keyboard and typed:
>>>
>>>>"Mark Goodge"  wrote in message
>>>>news:9vrga4psjj2r5gj2efo1aulimlhoe82l6j@news.markshouse.net...
>>>>[snip]
>>>>> No, there isn't. You have permission to observe the proceedings. That
>>>>> is all. A courtroom is not a public place. Within a courtroom, the
>>>>> basic principle is that anything not expressly permitted or instructed
>>>>> is prohibited.
>>>>[snip]
>>>>
>>>>Can you cite authority for these assertions ?
>>>
>>> http://www.oup.com/uk/orc/bin/9780199281343/01student/activities/court/
>>> is a good starting point.
>>
>> It is certainly an interesting one. But it does not answer my question any
>> better than you appear to be able to do.
>
>The link is to an Oxford University Press website.  The page contains the
>odd remarks I quote below:
>
>"It is illegal to take photographs or record anything that happens in court.
>This is a serious criminal offence and formal action is highly likely to be
>taken against you if you attempt to do either of these things.
>You cannot write or draw in a courtroom without the judge's permission. If
>you are visiting a court because you want to see a particular case because
>you think it will help your studies (e.g. you are writing a dissertation)
>then you may be able to get permission".
>
>I think this advice is inaccurate and I'd find it more credible if it was on
>a Court Service or other government website. Or, of course, if it quoted
>some real law.
>
>I (probably like you) have been to court on many hundreds of occasions.  I
>have never heard a judge rebuke anyone for making written notes and I have
>never heard anyone seek permission to make notes.  In any courtroom there
>are always so *many* people taking notes that it would be invidious to
>single out people who happen to be sitting at a distance from the lawyers or
>in the public gallery and rebuke them for doing what everyone else is doing.
>
>The Contempt of Court Act 1981 prohibits tape recording in court.  It also
>provides that "court may, where it appears to be necessary for avoiding a
>substantial risk of prejudice to the administration of justice in those
>proceedings, or in any other proceedings pending or imminent, order that the
>publication of any report of the proceedings, or any part of the
>proceedings, be postponed for such period as the court thinks necessary for
>that purpose."  That would refer to rare occasions when the press and public
>are told not to publicise what has taken place in court. Obviously in such a
>situation it might be necessary to rebuke anyone who looks as if they might
>intend to flout such an order.
>
>The Criminal Justice Act 1925 refers to photographs and sketches:
>
>"41.
>Prohibition on taking photographs, &c., in court.
>- (1) No person shall-
>(a)
>take or attempt to take in any court any photograph, or with a view to
>publication make or attempt to make in any court any portrait or sketch, of
>any person, being a judge of the court or a juror or a witness in or a party
>to any proceedings before the court, whether civil or criminal; or
>(b)
>publish any photograph, portrait or sketch taken or made in contravention of
>the foregoing provisions of this section or any reproduction thereof"
>
>
>
At the practical level, and as someone who has been to court on only the 
odd few occasions, what I have noticed is that security exists at the 
main entrance to the court complex, with no additional security at the 
individual courtrooms. it is dead easy to get a recorder past the main - 
indeed the only - security, but in the unlikely instance of a person 
being apprehended, they would simply say they were not going into a 
court room.

It would be impossible for a judge or court official to spot a jacket 
pocket recorder, though he can easily spot a person taking notes. What 
is a person supposed to do.

Incidentally, I baffled as to how to take notes ostentatiously.
-- 
Ken