Evening guys,

Got advised at work yesterday over 'potential risk of redundancy'

having had meeting with MD and admin i've been selected as one of 3
redundancies to take place.

had second meeting today, whereby i was officially advised again of the
commencement of a consultation period and given the opportunity to air
my views/input reasons for my position not being redundant.

company are looking to do away with my IT/Web position and bring in
contract IT company as and when required and have outsourced
alternatives to undertake the management etc of the website i just
built.

firstly i need confirmation that it's ok for them to do this, i haven't
been with the company for 2 years until november so i won't be entitled
to any redundancy.

also i made it clear to them today that i wasn't interested in
pussyfooting about and that i'd prefer to know the outcome asap so that
i could deal with it better. don't want to be hanging around for this 2
week consultation period to end to then be told i have to work my
notice!!!

so i asked if i could waive my right to the consultation period, as it
was clear from speaking with MD that there was no going back from this
decision.

am i able to do that or must they go through the process??

Thanks in advance for any advice/comments re this.

Chris.




-- 
monkeyboyuk

On 15 Aug, 18:15, monkeyboyuk 
wrote:
> Evening guys,
>
> Got advised at work yesterday over 'potential risk of redundancy'
>
> having had meeting with MD and admin i've been selected as one of 3
> redundancies to take place.
>
> had second meeting today, whereby i was officially advised again of the
> commencement of a consultation period and given the opportunity to air
> my views/input reasons for my position not being redundant.
>
> company are looking to do away with my IT/Web position and bring in
> contract IT company as and when required and have outsourced
> alternatives to undertake the management etc of the website i just
> built.
>
> firstly i need confirmation that it's ok for them to do this, i haven't
> been with the company for 2 years until november so i won't be entitled
> to any redundancy.
>
> also i made it clear to them today that i wasn't interested in
> pussyfooting about and that i'd prefer to know the outcome asap so that
> i could deal with it better. don't want to be hanging around for this 2
> week consultation period to end to then be told i have to work my
> notice!!!
>
> so i asked if i could waive my right to the consultation period, as it
> was clear from speaking with MD that there was no going back from this
> decision.
>
> am i able to do that or must they go through the process??
>
> Thanks in advance for any advice/comments re this.
>
> Chris.
>
> --
> monkeyboyuk

The "consultation period" is an essential part of the redundancy
process, but if there is "no going back from this decision" then it
isn't much of a "consultation" is it.

Aside from the legaliities, the one thing that will be most important
to you in your future career will be a glowing CV. Since that costs
your employer nothing to write, it is well worth getting it set in
stone, with an absolute commitment on their part that they will back
it up, as and when is becomes tiresomely neccessary, as part of the
severance "deal".

Other than that the "deal" is likely to be an empty one for you. These
are tough times but if you are positive and flexible you will bounce
back. Don't fall out with your employer!

On 16 Aug, 09:40, troystead...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> On 15 Aug, 18:15, monkeyboyuk 
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Evening guys,
>
> > Got advised at work yesterday over 'potential risk of redundancy'
>
> > having had meeting with MD and admin i've been selected as one of 3
> > redundancies to take place.
>
> > had second meeting today, whereby i was officially advised again of the
> > commencement of a consultation period and given the opportunity to air
> > my views/input reasons for my position not being redundant.
>
> > company are looking to do away with my IT/Web position and bring in
> > contract IT company as and when required and have outsourced
> > alternatives to undertake the management etc of the website i just
> > built.
>
> > firstly i need confirmation that it's ok for them to do this, i haven't
> > been with the company for 2 years until november so i won't be entitled
> > to any redundancy.
>
> > also i made it clear to them today that i wasn't interested in
> > pussyfooting about and that i'd prefer to know the outcome asap so that
> > i could deal with it better. don't want to be hanging around for this 2
> > week consultation period to end to then be told i have to work my
> > notice!!!
>
> > so i asked if i could waive my right to the consultation period, as it
> > was clear from speaking with MD that there was no going back from this
> > decision.
>
> > am i able to do that or must they go through the process??
>
> > Thanks in advance for any advice/comments re this.
>
> > Chris.
>
> > --
> > monkeyboyuk
>
> The "consultation period" is an essential part of the redundancy
> process, but if there is "no going back from this decision" then it
> isn't much of a "consultation" is it.
>
> Aside from the legaliities, the one thing that will be most important
> to you in your future career will be a glowing CV. Since that costs
> your employer nothing to write, it is well worth getting it set in
> stone, with an absolute commitment on their part that they will back
> it up, as and when is becomes tiresomely neccessary, as part of the
> severance "deal".
>
> Other than that the "deal" is likely to be an empty one for you. These
> are tough times but if you are positive and flexible you will bounce
> back. Don't fall out with your employer!

Oops I mean "reference" don't I.

On a practical note, looking towards the future, it very useful to
have your reference in a portable form that you can carry round with
you, because it saves everybody time and prevents the text drifting
from what was agreed. Ask if you can have it in the form of a letter
addressed to:

"To Whom it May Concern

"We have employed So and So..."

Make it as glowing and as plausible and as detailed as possible and it
should include details of your exemplary timekeeping and an
explanation of how the redundancy came about (a potential sticking
point).

Along with being smart and enthusiastic the reference is the one
single thing that will get you another job. Your employer has I
believe to allow you time to attend interviews, and now - while you
are still employed - is the optimum time.

"monkeyboyuk"  wrote in message 
news:monkeyboyuk.2eb6cfe@legalbanter.co.uk...
>
> Evening guys,
>
> Got advised at work yesterday over 'potential risk of redundancy'
>
> having had meeting with MD and admin i've been selected as one of 3
> redundancies to take place.
>
> had second meeting today, whereby i was officially advised again of the
> commencement of a consultation period and given the opportunity to air
> my views/input reasons for my position not being redundant.
>
> company are looking to do away with my IT/Web position and bring in
> contract IT company as and when required and have outsourced
> alternatives to undertake the management etc of the website i just
> built.
>
> firstly i need confirmation that it's ok for them to do this, i haven't

They are certainly entitled to outsource the work, but you may be entitled 
to be TUPEd to the winning bidder on the same terms as now.  The rules on 
TUPE were changed recently to cover more situations, which may be similar to 
yours.

This will, of course, make it harder for the bidders to make competitive 
bids, but that IS the point of new rules which were introduced under 
pressure from the unions.

> been with the company for 2 years until november so i won't be entitled
> to any redundancy.
>
> also i made it clear to them today that i wasn't interested in
> pussyfooting about and that i'd prefer to know the outcome asap so that
> i could deal with it better. don't want to be hanging around for this 2
> week consultation period to end to then be told i have to work my
> notice!!!

During this consultation they are supposed to consider whether there are 
other jobs that you are suitable for.  Are the recruiting in other areas?

> so i asked if i could waive my right to the consultation period, as it
> was clear from speaking with MD that there was no going back from this
> decision.
>
> am i able to do that or must they go through the process??

I actually can't see why this helps you.

If you are certain that it is going to happen, not knowing officially for 
two weeks just gives you two more weeks money and two weeks longer to look 
for a new job :-)

>
> Thanks in advance for any advice/comments re this.
>
> Chris.
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> monkeyboyuk
>

monkeyboyuk wrote:
> Evening guys,
>
> Got advised at work yesterday over 'potential risk of redundancy'
>
> having had meeting with MD and admin i've been selected as one of 3
> redundancies to take place.
>
> had second meeting today, whereby i was officially advised again of
> the commencement of a consultation period and given the opportunity
> to air my views/input reasons for my position not being redundant.
>
> company are looking to do away with my IT/Web position and bring in
> contract IT company as and when required and have outsourced
> alternatives to undertake the management etc of the website i just
> built.
>
> firstly i need confirmation that it's ok for them to do this, i
> haven't been with the company for 2 years until november so i won't
> be entitled to any redundancy.
>
> also i made it clear to them today that i wasn't interested in
> pussyfooting about and that i'd prefer to know the outcome asap so
> that i could deal with it better. don't want to be hanging around for
> this 2 week consultation period to end to then be told i have to work
> my notice!!!
>
> so i asked if i could waive my right to the consultation period, as it
> was clear from speaking with MD that there was no going back from this
> decision.
>
> am i able to do that or must they go through the process??
>
> Thanks in advance for any advice/comments re this.

You can't make them decide any quicker than they want to decide, and they 
may want to delay things so that they can extract the maximum benefit from 
you, particularly during the proposed handover.  However, you could decide 
to leave if you want, and give them notice now.  After all, what would you 
lose if you have no entitlement to redundancy payments?

Or, you could ask them what compensation they would give you if you 
volunteered to be made redundant, thereby making it easier for them.

It's up to you.  What do you want?

"Norman Wells"  wrote in message 
news:g862v5$1em$1$830fa79d@news.demon.co.uk...
> monkeyboyuk wrote:
>> Evening guys,
>>
>> Got advised at work yesterday over 'potential risk of redundancy'
>>
>> having had meeting with MD and admin i've been selected as one of 3
>> redundancies to take place.
>>
>> had second meeting today, whereby i was officially advised again of
>> the commencement of a consultation period and given the opportunity
>> to air my views/input reasons for my position not being redundant.
>>
>> company are looking to do away with my IT/Web position and bring in
>> contract IT company as and when required and have outsourced
>> alternatives to undertake the management etc of the website i just
>> built.
>>
>> firstly i need confirmation that it's ok for them to do this, i
>> haven't been with the company for 2 years until november so i won't
>> be entitled to any redundancy.
>>
>> also i made it clear to them today that i wasn't interested in
>> pussyfooting about and that i'd prefer to know the outcome asap so
>> that i could deal with it better. don't want to be hanging around for
>> this 2 week consultation period to end to then be told i have to work
>> my notice!!!
>>
>> so i asked if i could waive my right to the consultation period, as it
>> was clear from speaking with MD that there was no going back from this
>> decision.
>>
>> am i able to do that or must they go through the process??
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any advice/comments re this.
>
> You can't make them decide any quicker than they want to decide, and they 
> may want to delay things so that they can extract the maximum benefit from 
> you, particularly during the proposed handover.  However, you could decide 
> to leave if you want, and give them notice now.  After all, what would you 
> lose if you have no entitlement to redundancy payments?
>
> Or, you could ask them what compensation they would give you if you 
> volunteered to be made redundant, thereby making it easier for them.

You have to be very careful with this latter approach.  You could end up not 
being entitled to any benefits (assuming that you need them)

tim

"monkeyboyuk"  wrote in message 
news:monkeyboyuk.2eb6cfe@legalbanter.co.uk...
>
> Evening guys,
>
> Got advised at work yesterday over 'potential risk of redundancy'
>
> having had meeting with MD and admin i've been selected as one of 3
> redundancies to take place.
>
> had second meeting today, whereby i was officially advised again of the
> commencement of a consultation period and given the opportunity to air
> my views/input reasons for my position not being redundant.
>
> company are looking to do away with my IT/Web position and bring in
> contract IT company as and when required and have outsourced
> alternatives to undertake the management etc of the website i just
> built.


It sounds like TUPE laws may be relevant here - I'd suggest getting proper 
advice

-- 
Alex

"I laugh in the face of danger , then I hide until it goes away"

www.drzoidberg.co.uk

monkeyboyuk  wrote:

> company are looking to do away with my IT/Web position and bring in
> contract IT company as and when required and have outsourced
> alternatives to undertake the management etc of the website i just
> built.

This sounds as if it may fall under the terms of TUPE - The Transfer of
Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations 2006. You are not
being made redundant, the position is being outsourced to a contractor.

The change of contract appears to be what's known as a "relevant
transfer" because a service previously undertaken by you for your
employer is being awarded to a contractor.

The new employer has to take on your contract on the same terms and
conditions which you presently enjoy. The contract company cannot pick
and choose, they must offer you continuing employment on the same T&Cs.

What you must ensure is that you are *not* dismissed before the transfer
otherwise you cannot require the new contractor to employ you even if
the dismissal turns out to have been unfair.

Your employer cannot fairly dismiss you because of the change to a new
contractor, nor can they dismiss you for "economic reasons".

This document will give you more advice:

http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file20761.pdf

In news:g862v5$1em$1$830fa79d@news.demon.co.uk,
Norman Wells opined:
> monkeyboyuk wrote:
>> Evening guys,
>>
>> Got advised at work yesterday over 'potential risk of redundancy'
>>
>> having had meeting with MD and admin i've been selected as one of 3
>> redundancies to take place.
>>
>> had second meeting today, whereby i was officially advised again of
>> the commencement of a consultation period and given the opportunity
>> to air my views/input reasons for my position not being redundant.
>>
>> company are looking to do away with my IT/Web position and bring in
>> contract IT company as and when required and have outsourced
>> alternatives to undertake the management etc of the website i just
>> built.
>>
>> firstly i need confirmation that it's ok for them to do this, i
>> haven't been with the company for 2 years until november so i won't
>> be entitled to any redundancy.
>>
>> also i made it clear to them today that i wasn't interested in
>> pussyfooting about and that i'd prefer to know the outcome asap so
>> that i could deal with it better. don't want to be hanging around for
>> this 2 week consultation period to end to then be told i have to work
>> my notice!!!
>>
>> so i asked if i could waive my right to the consultation period, as
>> it was clear from speaking with MD that there was no going back from
>> this decision.
>>
>> am i able to do that or must they go through the process??
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any advice/comments re this.
>
> You can't make them decide any quicker than they want to decide, and
> they may want to delay things so that they can extract the maximum
> benefit from you, particularly during the proposed handover. However, you 
> could decide to leave if you want, and give them notice
> now.  After all, what would you lose if you have no entitlement to
> redundancy payments?
> Or, you could ask them what compensation they would give you if you
> volunteered to be made redundant, thereby making it easier for them.
>
> It's up to you.  What do you want?

But some employers will pay you for your notice period without requiring you 
to work it; you wouldn't want to lose that, as it can often be more than the 
statutory  redundancy payment. Some employers still pay enhanced redundancy 
payments, above the statutory requirement.

Chris R

thanks very much for all the comments so far.

re my asking about waiving the right to this consultation period, i
can't see any way for me retaining the position, and the MD made that
fairly clear when he was outlining what was going on.

as for why i'd want to do this, it's purely a preference. i've never
been in this position before and i'd rather that i wasn't having to
hang around for 2 weeks to be told what i know's gonna happen anyway. 

i appreciate that they have to try to do things by the books but it
don't half suck sometimes!!!  

as for resigning that's not an option, i'd not be entitled to benefit
(not that i'm worried about that) but more importantly in the case of
creditor insurance (ie mortgages/loans etc..) i'd not be covered for
the repayments (although some do look more favourably on the situation
taking into account the fact that had i not resigned i'd have been made
redundant anyway)

will have a look at this TUPE business as i've never heard of it

Thanks again folks




-- 
monkeyboyuk

think i need to speak to someone about this, problem is should i bother
as i don't really think i want to stay in my job there now! won't be
easy for me or them i don't suppose!

don't wanna leave on bad terms, so wonder if i should just lump it and
get on wi things.......

with regards to the outsourcing, would it matter if they weren't
contracted to do the hours that i was? the impression i get is
obviously that they'll only be asked in to resolve any issues that
arise, and unsure of the exact terms of quotation for web work. My
position is full-time where-as they won't be




-- 
monkeyboyuk