Hi,
I arrange van insurance on-line through a broker, started at 00:01 hrs 
today, 3 July.  Quotes ranged from £160 - £350, but one company offered 
£125, which I accepted.  Maestro payment made (bank confirms £125 debit 
on 24/06/08) and all usual documents issued.

Today, I received a letter from the broker advising the insurance had 
been cancelled with 7 days notice.  I correctly completed the online 
application form and no claims have been made on this policy.  Broker 
thinks the reason was due to a computer program error in calculating the 
premium due, should have been £260 and the insurers have just picked it 
up and cancelled the policy.  No refund of policy is available, either 
full or pro-rata (I think the implication is I should have known it was 
"too cheap" - hence fraud is suspected). Also they now want £400+ for 
same insurance.

I have looked on-line but must now answer the question "Have you ever 
had insurance cancelled....." correctly, and the premiums range between 
£750 - £3,500.

I will write to the insurance company and request the reason in writing 
for cancelling the insurance and a copy of the cancellation T&C's.

Questions:
Do I have a "contract" with the insurance company and can they cancel 
because they made a maths error? In my line of work if I make a mistake 
in a verbal contract I take the consequences of that mistake, my clients 
don't suffer.

Can the insurance refuse a refund because they *suspect* fraud.  I 
thought fraud was a criminal matter and not decided by an insurance 
company.  I assure anyone no fraud was intended or committed as far as I 
am concerned.  Or maybe the insurance company is about to go belly up 
and is hanging onto all premiums?

I suspect the insurance company might have a lot of these cancellation 
notices being issued due the computer error.  Anyone else know anything?

Is this some new scam by insurers I haven't heard about to increase 
premiums?

Is the FSA worth bothering with generally?

Suggested best way forward please, bearing in mind I must have insurance 
within 7 days as van has to be kept on road.

Sorry for the list and thanks in advance.

Alan
-- 
Alan

On 3 Jul, 15:25, bin me  wrote:
> Hi,
> I arrange van insurance on-line through a broker, started at 00:01 hrs
> today, 3 July.  Quotes ranged from £160 - £350, but one company offered
> £125, which I accepted.  Maestro payment made (bank confirms £125 debit
> on 24/06/08) and all usual documents issued.
>
> Today, I received a letter from the broker advising the insurance had
> been cancelled with 7 days notice.  I correctly completed the online
> application form and no claims have been made on this policy.  Broker
> thinks the reason was due to a computer program error in calculating the
> premium due, should have been £260 and the insurers have just picked it
> up and cancelled the policy.  No refund of policy is available, either
> full or pro-rata (I think the implication is I should have known it was
> "too cheap" - hence fraud is suspected). Also they now want £400 for
> same insurance.
>
> I have looked on-line but must now answer the question "Have you ever
> had insurance cancelled....." correctly, and the premiums range between
> £750 - £3,500.
>
> I will write to the insurance company and request the reason in writing
> for cancelling the insurance and a copy of the cancellation T&C's.
>
> Questions:
> Do I have a "contract" with the insurance company and can they cancel
> because they made a maths error? In my line of work if I make a mistake
> in a verbal contract I take the consequences of that mistake, my clients
> don't suffer.
>
> Can the insurance refuse a refund because they *suspect* fraud.  I
> thought fraud was a criminal matter and not decided by an insurance
> company.  I assure anyone no fraud was intended or committed as far as I
> am concerned.  Or maybe the insurance company is about to go belly up
> and is hanging onto all premiums?
>
> I suspect the insurance company might have a lot of these cancellation
> notices being issued due the computer error.  Anyone else know anything> Is this some new scam by insurers I haven't heard about to increase
> premiums?
>
> Is the FSA worth bothering with generally?
>
> Suggested best way forward please, bearing in mind I must have insurance
> within 7 days as van has to be kept on road.
>
> Sorry for the list and thanks in advance.
>

Was the quote only from the broker's site or from the insurer? Did you
pay the broker or the insurer?
You'll probably find the insurers terms state that any quotation and
acceptance is subject to checking and agreement by the insurance
company.

If it was quoted as £125 and premium should have been £260, why would
the same company want £400, or are you referring to the broker's
quote for the same cover elsewhere.

You need to find out from whichever has your money exactly why they
think they should hold onto it - if indeed they think they can.
An 'implication of suspected fraud' is hardly specific.

If there is some genuine mistake and the insurance company don't want
to cover at the price quoted then you should be entitled to a refund.

Toom

In message 
, Toom 
Tabard  writes
>On 3 Jul, 15:25, bin me  wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I arrange van insurance on-line through a broker, started at 00:01 hrs
>> today, 3 July.  Quotes ranged from £160 - £350, but one company offered
>> £125, which I accepted.  Maestro payment made (bank confirms £125 debit
>> on 24/06/08) and all usual documents issued.
>>
>> Today, I received a letter from the broker advising the insurance had
>> been cancelled with 7 days notice.  I correctly completed the online
>> application form and no claims have been made on this policy.  Broker
>> thinks the reason was due to a computer program error in calculating the
>> premium due, should have been £260 and the insurers have just picked it
>> up and cancelled the policy.  No refund of policy is available, either
>> full or pro-rata (I think the implication is I should have known it was
>> "too cheap" - hence fraud is suspected). Also they now want £400+ for
>> same insurance.
>>
>> I have looked on-line but must now answer the question "Have you ever
>> had insurance cancelled....." correctly, and the premiums range between
>> £750 - £3,500.
>>
>> I will write to the insurance company and request the reason in writing
>> for cancelling the insurance and a copy of the cancellation T&C's.
>>
>> Questions:
>> Do I have a "contract" with the insurance company and can they cancel
>> because they made a maths error? In my line of work if I make a mistake
>> in a verbal contract I take the consequences of that mistake, my clients
>> don't suffer.
>>
>> Can the insurance refuse a refund because they *suspect* fraud.  I
>> thought fraud was a criminal matter and not decided by an insurance
>> company.  I assure anyone no fraud was intended or committed as far as I
>> am concerned.  Or maybe the insurance company is about to go belly up
>> and is hanging onto all premiums?
>>
>> I suspect the insurance company might have a lot of these cancellation
>> notices being issued due the computer error.  Anyone else know anything?
>>
>> Is this some new scam by insurers I haven't heard about to increase
>> premiums?
>>
>> Is the FSA worth bothering with generally?
>>
>> Suggested best way forward please, bearing in mind I must have insurance
>> within 7 days as van has to be kept on road.
>>
>> Sorry for the list and thanks in advance.
>>
>
>Was the quote only from the broker's site or from the insurer? Did you
>pay the broker or the insurer?
As I understand it, the brokers software contacts the insurance company 
software.  Broker states the insurance company software was faulty, they 
have had a lot of similar problems with this insurer and no longer deal 
with them. The broker has my money, just checked with my bank.

>You'll probably find the insurers terms state that any quotation and
>acceptance is subject to checking and agreement by the insurance
>company.
Insurance company issued insurance schedule on 20/06/08 - which I assume 
means I have some sort of contract with them and my payment was 
processed on 24/06/08. I think 3/4 days a "reasonable" period of time 
for them to check everything.  I placed the "order" if that's the right 
word, about a day before the schedule issue date.
>
>If it was quoted as £125 and premium should have been £260, why would
>the same company want £400+, or are you referring to the broker's
>quote for the same cover elsewhere.
I don't fully understand why they want more than what the broker 
"thought" it should be.  Can only assume the insurers anticipate a 
sizeable loss of business because of the computer error and are trying 
to make up the shortfall in profit?

>
>You need to find out from whichever has your money exactly why they
>think they should hold onto it - if indeed they think they can.
Broker, as above.  Don't know why they think they can hold onto it. I 
should have questioned that at the time.  I will check tomorrow.

>An 'implication of suspected fraud' is hardly specific.
This may have come from the insurance company or maybe the broker with 
some "creative thinking" - I was pushing quite hard for a reason why the 
insurance had been cancelled as I had been open & honest on the proposal 
form.  Basically I was shopping around to get the cheapest (I understood 
the insurance had some limitations), but its the first time for me 
getting the cheapest has been considered "suspected fraud" as "I should 
have known" it was too cheap!
>
>If there is some genuine mistake and the insurance company don't want
>to cover at the price quoted then you should be entitled to a refund.
Generally I would sympathise with any company that makes a genuine 
mistake.  It also occurs to me the employee who set up the program rates 
may have "accidentally" made an error, perhaps before he left.  Note; 
this is speculation on my part.

I don't have any sympathy in this case as the broker is keeping my money 
and the insurance has been cancelled. This gives me just 7 days notice 
to re-insure which is proving impossible at similar rates to those 
obtained around the time I got the quote - mainly because I answer 
truthfully the usual question "Ever had insurance cancelled...." 
Treating any customer like this is bound to lead to aggravation.

Obviously for the sums involved in the original quote range (£125 - 
£350) its not worth while paying for a solicitor.  However, if I have to 
pay £750 - £3,500 for insurance, then things may change.

Toom, do you *know* who I have a legal contract with?  I'm beginning to 
think its the broker, do you agree?

Alan

-- 
Alan

On Thu,  3 Jul 2008 15:25:04 퍝, bin me 
wrote:

>Hi,
>I arrange van insurance on-line through a broker, started at 00:01 hrs 
>today, 3 July.  Quotes ranged from £160 - £350, but one company offered 
>£125, which I accepted.  Maestro payment made (bank confirms £125 debit 
>on 24/06/08) and all usual documents issued.
>
>Today, I received a letter from the broker advising the insurance had 
>been cancelled with 7 days notice.  I correctly completed the online 
>application form and no claims have been made on this policy.  Broker 
>thinks the reason was due to a computer program error in calculating the 
>premium due, should have been £260 and the insurers have just picked it 
>up and cancelled the policy.  No refund of policy is available, either 
>full or pro-rata (I think the implication is I should have known it was 
>"too cheap" - hence fraud is suspected). Also they now want £400 for 
>same insurance.
>
>I have looked on-line but must now answer the question "Have you ever 
>had insurance cancelled....." correctly, and the premiums range between 
>£750 - £3,500.
>
>I will write to the insurance company and request the reason in writing 
>for cancelling the insurance and a copy of the cancellation T&C's.
>
>Questions:
>Do I have a "contract" with the insurance company and can they cancel 
>because they made a maths error? In my line of work if I make a mistake 
>in a verbal contract I take the consequences of that mistake, my clients 
>don't suffer.
>
>Can the insurance refuse a refund because they *suspect* fraud.  I 
>thought fraud was a criminal matter and not decided by an insurance 
>company.  I assure anyone no fraud was intended or committed as far as I 
>am concerned.  Or maybe the insurance company is about to go belly up 
>and is hanging onto all premiums?
>
>I suspect the insurance company might have a lot of these cancellation 
>notices being issued due the computer error.  Anyone else know anything?
>
>Is this some new scam by insurers I haven't heard about to increase 
>premiums?
>
>Is the FSA worth bothering with generally?
>
>Suggested best way forward please, bearing in mind I must have insurance 
>within 7 days as van has to be kept on road.
>
>Sorry for the list and thanks in advance.

Something similar happened to me a few years ago although my policy
was not cancelled. They told me I would have to pay more.

I visited a lawyer and he told me that the principle of "promissory
estoppel" applied and they should honour the quoted premium.  When I
told the brokers they capitulated and I paid no more.

-- 
(\__/)  M.
(='.'=) Owing to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there.  If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
See http://improve-usenet.org

In message , Mark 
 writes
>On Thu,  3 Jul 2008 15:25:04 +0100, bin me 
>wrote:
>
>>Hi,
>>I arrange van insurance on-line through a broker, started at 00:01 hrs
>>today, 3 July.  Quotes ranged from £160 - £350, but one company offered
>>£125, which I accepted.  Maestro payment made (bank confirms £125 debit
>>on 24/06/08) and all usual documents issued.
>>
>>Today, I received a letter from the broker advising the insurance had
>>been cancelled with 7 days notice.  I correctly completed the online
>>application form and no claims have been made on this policy.  Broker
>>thinks the reason was due to a computer program error in calculating the
>>premium due, should have been £260 and the insurers have just picked it
>>up and cancelled the policy.  No refund of policy is available, either
>>full or pro-rata (I think the implication is I should have known it was
>>"too cheap" - hence fraud is suspected). Also they now want £400+ for
>>same insurance.
>>
>>I have looked on-line but must now answer the question "Have you ever
>>had insurance cancelled....." correctly, and the premiums range between
>>£750 - £3,500.
>>
>>I will write to the insurance company and request the reason in writing
>>for cancelling the insurance and a copy of the cancellation T&C's.
>>
>>Questions:
>>Do I have a "contract" with the insurance company and can they cancel
>>because they made a maths error? In my line of work if I make a mistake
>>in a verbal contract I take the consequences of that mistake, my clients
>>don't suffer.
>>
>>Can the insurance refuse a refund because they *suspect* fraud.  I
>>thought fraud was a criminal matter and not decided by an insurance
>>company.  I assure anyone no fraud was intended or committed as far as I
>>am concerned.  Or maybe the insurance company is about to go belly up
>>and is hanging onto all premiums?
>>
>>I suspect the insurance company might have a lot of these cancellation
>>notices being issued due the computer error.  Anyone else know anything?
>>
>>Is this some new scam by insurers I haven't heard about to increase
>>premiums?
>>
>>Is the FSA worth bothering with generally?
>>
>>Suggested best way forward please, bearing in mind I must have insurance
>>within 7 days as van has to be kept on road.
>>
>>Sorry for the list and thanks in advance.
>
>Something similar happened to me a few years ago although my policy
>was not cancelled. They told me I would have to pay more.
>
>I visited a lawyer and he told me that the principle of "promissory
>estoppel" applied and they should honour the quoted premium.  When I
>told the brokers they capitulated and I paid no more.
>
Mark,
Thank you for that.  I have been trying to get more quotes 
yesterday/today, but they are "silly money" (£1000+) due to the fact I 
must disclose the existing insurance has been cancelled.  I have given 
it to my solicitor and I am waiting for the return call.  However, 
"Promissory estoppel" is something I shall mention.  Thank you.
Alan
-- 
Alan

"Alan"  wrote in message 
news:k6dqqkAJwibIFwla@huckerby.net...

> Thank you for that.  I have been trying to get more quotes 
> yesterday/today, but they are "silly money" (£1000+) due to the fact I 
> must disclose the existing insurance has been cancelled.  I have given it 
> to my solicitor and I am waiting for the return call.  However, 
> "Promissory estoppel" is something I shall mention.  Thank you.
> Alan
> -- 
> Alan

This insurance is governed by the FSA these days, and I would start off by 
complaining to the insurance company and the broker. (They are regulated 
too.) The fraud allegation is outrageous. Can I just check a couple of 
points:
Did the paperwork from the original insurer actually reach you?
Are the original insurers offering to cover you at their normal rates?

On 4 Jul, 15:00, Alan  wrote:
> In message , Mark
>  writes
>
>
>
> >On Thu,  3 Jul 2008 15:25:04 퍝, bin me 
> >wrote:
>
> >>Hi,
> >>I arrange van insurance on-line through a broker, started at 00:01 hrs
> >>today, 3 July.  Quotes ranged from £160 - £350, but one company offered
> >>£125, which I accepted.  Maestro payment made (bank confirms £125 debit
> >>on 24/06/08) and all usual documents issued.
>
> >>Today, I received a letter from the broker advising the insurance had
> >>been cancelled with 7 days notice.  I correctly completed the online
> >>application form and no claims have been made on this policy.  Broker
> >>thinks the reason was due to a computer program error in calculating the
> >>premium due, should have been £260 and the insurers have just picked it
> >>up and cancelled the policy.  No refund of policy is available, either
> >>full or pro-rata (I think the implication is I should have known it was
> >>"too cheap" - hence fraud is suspected). Also they now want £400 for
> >>same insurance.
>
> >>I have looked on-line but must now answer the question "Have you ever
> >>had insurance cancelled....." correctly, and the premiums range between
> >>£750 - £3,500.
>
> >>I will write to the insurance company and request the reason in writing
> >>for cancelling the insurance and a copy of the cancellation T&C's.
>
> >>Questions:
> >>Do I have a "contract" with the insurance company and can they cancel
> >>because they made a maths error? In my line of work if I make a mistake
> >>in a verbal contract I take the consequences of that mistake, my clients
> >>don't suffer.
>
> >>Can the insurance refuse a refund because they *suspect* fraud.  I
> >>thought fraud was a criminal matter and not decided by an insurance
> >>company.  I assure anyone no fraud was intended or committed as far as I
> >>am concerned.  Or maybe the insurance company is about to go belly up
> >>and is hanging onto all premiums?
>
> >>I suspect the insurance company might have a lot of these cancellation
> >>notices being issued due the computer error.  Anyone else know anything?
>
> >>Is this some new scam by insurers I haven't heard about to increase
> >>premiums?
>
> >>Is the FSA worth bothering with generally?
>
> >>Suggested best way forward please, bearing in mind I must have insurance
> >>within 7 days as van has to be kept on road.
>
> >>Sorry for the list and thanks in advance.
>
> >Something similar happened to me a few years ago although my policy
> >was not cancelled. They told me I would have to pay more.
>
> >I visited a lawyer and he told me that the principle of "promissory
> >estoppel" applied and they should honour the quoted premium.  When I
> >told the brokers they capitulated and I paid no more.
>
> Mark,
> Thank you for that.  I have been trying to get more quotes
> yesterday/today, but they are "silly money" (£1000) due to the fact I
> must disclose the existing insurance has been cancelled.  I have given
> it to my solicitor and I am waiting for the return call.  However,
> "Promissory estoppel" is something I shall mention.  Thank you.
> Alan
>

It would obviously be best if you can sort it out at a reasonable
price with the original insurer/broker.
Otherwise, how are you getting quotes? - doing it, say, online, will
throw up high quotes or refusal to quote if you are declaring that an
insurer has previously refused or cancelled cover. It may be a case
for seeing if you can find an actual high street insurance broker,
explaining and showing evidence that it was purely an administrative
error rather than your insurance history - they may have the personal
contacts in insurance companies to iron it out and get you cover at a
reasonable rate.

Toom

In message 
, at 
16:55:15 on Fri, 4 Jul 2008, Toom Tabard  
remarked:
>Otherwise, how are you getting quotes? - doing it, say, online, will
>throw up high quotes or refusal to quote if you are declaring that an
>insurer has previously refused or cancelled cover.

They need some different words. "Cancelled with prejudice" as opposed to 
"cancelled without". Same with "refusal" to cover. What's the situation 
if you ask a company to cover you for business use in a Porsche and they 
say "sorry we only ever do SD&P cover on that car". Is that a refusal?
-- 
Roland Perry

In message <486e3275$0$26083$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>, GB 
 writes
>"Alan"  wrote in message
>news:k6dqqkAJwibIFwla@huckerby.net...
>
>> Thank you for that.  I have been trying to get more quotes
>> yesterday/today, but they are "silly money" (£1000+) due to the fact I
>> must disclose the existing insurance has been cancelled.  I have given it
>> to my solicitor and I am waiting for the return call.  However,
>> "Promissory estoppel" is something I shall mention.  Thank you.
>> Alan
>> --
>> Alan
>
>This insurance is governed by the FSA these days, and I would start off by
>complaining to the insurance company and the broker. (They are regulated
>too.)
My solicitor suggests the FSA will take more than 7 days to resolve, and 
I need insurance within 7 days - hence a Special delivery letter has 
been posted to the broker with whom I have the contract, this should 
arrive before 9:00am Monday.  Broker has been offered the opportunity to 
continue insurance for the year as agreed or I will hold them 
responsible for all my costs incurred.

>The fraud allegation is outrageous.
Agreed!

> Can I just check a couple of
>points:
>Did the paperwork from the original insurer actually reach you?
Yes.  Also, confirmation emails from broker and confirmation letters 
(snail mail) from Broker and Insurance company.

>Are the original insurers offering to cover you at their normal rates?
Didn't ask as solicitor suggested to offer them to continue for full 
year as agreed in the contract we have.  If not, go elsewhere.

Alan
-- 
Alan

In message 
, 
Toom Tabard  writes
>On 4 Jul, 15:00, Alan  wrote:
>> In message , Mark
>>  writes
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Thu,  3 Jul 2008 15:25:04 +0100, bin me 
>> >wrote:
>>
>> >>Hi,
>> >>I arrange van insurance on-line through a broker, started at 00:01 hrs
>> >>today, 3 July.  Quotes ranged from £160 - £350, but one company offered
>> >>£125, which I accepted.  Maestro payment made (bank confirms £125 debit
>> >>on 24/06/08) and all usual documents issued.
>>
>> >>Today, I received a letter from the broker advising the insurance had
>> >>been cancelled with 7 days notice.  I correctly completed the online
>> >>application form and no claims have been made on this policy.  Broker
>> >>thinks the reason was due to a computer program error in calculating the
>> >>premium due, should have been £260 and the insurers have just picked it
>> >>up and cancelled the policy.  No refund of policy is available, either
>> >>full or pro-rata (I think the implication is I should have known it was
>> >>"too cheap" - hence fraud is suspected). Also they now want £400+ for
>> >>same insurance.
>>
>> >>I have looked on-line but must now answer the question "Have you ever
>> >>had insurance cancelled....." correctly, and the premiums range between
>> >>£750 - £3,500.
>>
>> >>I will write to the insurance company and request the reason in writing
>> >>for cancelling the insurance and a copy of the cancellation T&C's.
>>
>> >>Questions:
>> >>Do I have a "contract" with the insurance company and can they cancel
>> >>because they made a maths error? In my line of work if I make a mistake
>> >>in a verbal contract I take the consequences of that mistake, my clients
>> >>don't suffer.
>>
>> >>Can the insurance refuse a refund because they *suspect* fraud.  I
>> >>thought fraud was a criminal matter and not decided by an insurance
>> >>company.  I assure anyone no fraud was intended or committed as far as I
>> >>am concerned.  Or maybe the insurance company is about to go belly up
>> >>and is hanging onto all premiums?
>>
>> >>I suspect the insurance company might have a lot of these cancellation
>> >>notices being issued due the computer error.  Anyone else know anything?
>>
>> >>Is this some new scam by insurers I haven't heard about to increase
>> >>premiums?
>>
>> >>Is the FSA worth bothering with generally?
>>
>> >>Suggested best way forward please, bearing in mind I must have insurance
>> >>within 7 days as van has to be kept on road.
>>
>> >>Sorry for the list and thanks in advance.
>>
>> >Something similar happened to me a few years ago although my policy
>> >was not cancelled. They told me I would have to pay more.
>>
>> >I visited a lawyer and he told me that the principle of "promissory
>> >estoppel" applied and they should honour the quoted premium.  When I
>> >told the brokers they capitulated and I paid no more.
>>
>> Mark,
>> Thank you for that.  I have been trying to get more quotes
>> yesterday/today, but they are "silly money" (£1000+) due to the fact I
>> must disclose the existing insurance has been cancelled.  I have given
>> it to my solicitor and I am waiting for the return call.  However,
>> "Promissory estoppel" is something I shall mention.  Thank you.
>> Alan
>>
>
>It would obviously be best if you can sort it out at a reasonable
>price with the original insurer/broker.
Agreed.  If the Broker had approached me in a "reasonable manner" I 
would more than likely have met them half way, or maybe paid the 
"correct" premium in full.  We all make mistakes (I think that is what 
it was, not the company about to go belly up or similar), me included. 
But no refund, fraud and no insurance really lit my blue touch paper!

>Otherwise, how are you getting quotes? - doing it, say, online, will
>throw up high quotes or refusal to quote if you are declaring that an
>insurer has previously refused or cancelled cover.
Online.  As you say, very high, refusal or "call us" answers.

> It may be a case
>for seeing if you can find an actual high street insurance broker,
>explaining and showing evidence that it was purely an administrative
>error rather than your insurance history - they may have the personal
>contacts in insurance companies to iron it out and get you cover at a
>reasonable rate.
Have spoken with a "High St" broker.  He needs confirmation from both 
broker and insurance company it was a computer database error and not 
attempted fraud.  Thats going to be difficult to get within 7 days.

As I have said in another article, a letter is on its way to the broker. 
Lets hope this resolves things.

Alan

-- 
Alan