On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 10:23:52 +0100, "Ret." 
wrote:

>> Bear in mind when answering that morphine is one of the most common 
>> painkillers used in hospitals.
>
>AIUI, morphine is only used as a painkiller in the most serious cases - and 
>then only for short periods because of its side-effects (notably addiction). 
>The only time it is used long-term is in relation to palliative care for the 
>terminally ill.  Am I wrong?

Yes, you are wrong.

-- 
Cynic

"Cynic"  wrote in message 
news:s8pla49aotq3q985oaa8kk81rqol85qap3@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 10:23:52 +0100, "Ret." 
> wrote:
>
>>> Bear in mind when answering that morphine is one of the most common
>>> painkillers used in hospitals.
>>
>>AIUI, morphine is only used as a painkiller in the most serious cases - 
>>and
>>then only for short periods because of its side-effects (notably 
>>addiction).
>>The only time it is used long-term is in relation to palliative care for 
>>the
>>terminally ill.  Am I wrong?
>
> Yes, you are wrong.

How is he wrong?

He said that it is used in "most serious cases" on a short term basis i.e 
when the pain so severe and other pain relief methods have been tried but 
not provided relief.  Go see what the analgesic pain ladder is and after 
you've read that come back and explain what you meant by " Yes, you are 
wrong".

Say No wrote:
> "Cynic"  wrote in message
> news:s8pla49aotq3q985oaa8kk81rqol85qap3@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 10:23:52 +0100, "Ret." 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>>> Bear in mind when answering that morphine is one of the most common
>>>> painkillers used in hospitals.
>>> 
>>> AIUI, morphine is only used as a painkiller in the most serious
>>> cases - and
>>> then only for short periods because of its side-effects (notably
>>> addiction).
>>> The only time it is used long-term is in relation to palliative
>>> care for the
>>> terminally ill.  Am I wrong?
>> 
>> Yes, you are wrong.
> 
> How is he wrong?

He's not wrong.

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 17:53:45 +0100, "Norman Wells"
 wrote:

>Say No wrote:
>> "Cynic"  wrote in message
>> news:s8pla49aotq3q985oaa8kk81rqol85qap3@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 10:23:52 +0100, "Ret." 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>> Bear in mind when answering that morphine is one of the most common
>>>>> painkillers used in hospitals.
>>>> 
>>>> AIUI, morphine is only used as a painkiller in the most serious
>>>> cases - and
>>>> then only for short periods because of its side-effects (notably
>>>> addiction).
>>>> The only time it is used long-term is in relation to palliative
>>>> care for the
>>>> terminally ill.  Am I wrong?
>>> 
>>> Yes, you are wrong.
>> 
>> How is he wrong?

>He's not wrong.

He's wrong.

Diamorphine is used to alleviate pain for women in labour and in
managing post operative pain amongst other things.

Svenne

"Say No"  wrote in message 
news:g8esl0$j23$1@aioe.org...
> He said that it is used in "most serious cases" on a short term basis i.e 
> when the pain so severe and other pain relief methods have been tried but 
> not provided relief.  Go see what the analgesic pain ladder is and after 
> you've read that come back and explain what you meant by " Yes, you are 
> wrong".

Diamorphine was given to my wife during labour as a first option. I have had 
diamorphine a few times in the past for trauma pain as a first option (where 
a local was not possible).
It is not just "other pain relief methods have been tried but not provided 
relief." IIRC diamorphine is a standard pain relief during birth.

Andy

"AndyW"  wrote in message

> ." IIRC diamorphine is a standard pain relief during birth.

Diamorphine is not "standard pain relief during birth".

"Say No"  wrote in message 
news:g8glma$gub$1@aioe.org...
>
> "AndyW"  wrote in message
>
>> ." IIRC diamorphine is a standard pain relief during birth.
>
> Diamorphine is not "standard pain relief during birth".

OK I withdraw the 'standard' but stick by the statement :

Diamorphine was given to my wife during labour as a first option. I have had
diamorphine a few times in the past for trauma pain as a first option (where
a local was not possible).
It is not just "other pain relief methods have been tried but not provided
relief."

"AndyW"  wrote in message 
news:48abde85$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...
>
> "Say No"  wrote in message 
> news:g8glma$gub$1@aioe.org...
>>
>> "AndyW"  wrote in message
>>
>>> ." IIRC diamorphine is a standard pain relief during birth.
>>
>> Diamorphine is not "standard pain relief during birth".
>
> OK I withdraw the 'standard'

Good.  If you or your wife are interested about standard pain relief during 
labor then see this:
http://www.patient.co.uk/showdoc/40000218/

> Diamorphine was given to my wife during labour as a first option. I have 
> had
> diamorphine a few times in the past for trauma pain as a first option 
> (where
> a local was not possible).
> It is not just "other pain relief methods have been tried but not provided
> relief."

And what on earth gave you the impression my comment was about your or your 
wife's "diamorphine"?

I was commenting about Ret's reference to **MORPHINE** -- not its 
derivatives -- he made no reference to that!  Can you follow, please?

Is it me or will druggies just about tell you anything to justify drug use 
and make it appear as though hard drugs are absolutely harmless to take?

"AndyW"  wrote in message 
news:48abde85$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...
>
> "Say No"  wrote in message 
> news:g8glma$gub$1@aioe.org...
>>
>> "AndyW"  wrote in message
>>
>>> ." IIRC diamorphine is a standard pain relief during birth.
>>
>> Diamorphine is not "standard pain relief during birth".
>
> OK I withdraw the 'standard' but stick by the statement :
>
> Diamorphine was given to my wife during labour as a first option. I have 
> had
> diamorphine a few times in the past for trauma pain as a first option 
> (where
> a local was not possible).
> It is not just "other pain relief methods have been tried but not provided
> relief."

Following a quick phone call to a doctor friend who informs me that 
'standard' is a very subjective term but NICE require that diamorphine and 
similar opiates are present in all delivery rooms and states that many 
doctors prefer it as it is less problematical than an epidural.
further information is available from NICE clinical guideline 55 
www.nice.org.uk/CG055


So I would say that makes it a standard pain relief but your opinion may 
vary.

Andy

I have provided my evidence

Andy

Noticed at Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:24:07 +0100: AndyW informed us:

> 
> "Say No"  wrote in message 
> news:g8glma$gub$1@aioe.org...
>>
>> "AndyW"  wrote in message
>>
>>> ." IIRC diamorphine is a standard pain relief during birth.
>>
>> Diamorphine is not "standard pain relief during birth".
> 
> OK I withdraw the 'standard' but stick by the statement :
> 
> Diamorphine was given to my wife during labour as a first option. I have had
> diamorphine a few times in the past for trauma pain as a first option (where
> a local was not possible).
> It is not just "other pain relief methods have been tried but not provided
> relief."

Isn't it usually pethidine? Which is an Opioid.

-- 
Dr John Watson
Baker Street

Dr John Watson wrote:
> Noticed at Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:24:07 +0100: AndyW informed us:
> 
>> "Say No"  wrote in message 
>> news:g8glma$gub$1@aioe.org...
>>> "AndyW"  wrote in message
>>>
>>>> ." IIRC diamorphine is a standard pain relief during birth.
>>> Diamorphine is not "standard pain relief during birth".
>> OK I withdraw the 'standard' but stick by the statement :
>>
>> Diamorphine was given to my wife during labour as a first option. I have had
>> diamorphine a few times in the past for trauma pain as a first option (where
>> a local was not possible).
>> It is not just "other pain relief methods have been tried but not provided
>> relief."
> 
> Isn't it usually pethidine? 

Yes

Which is an Opioid.
> 

Yes.

I had pethidine with my first child and was so sick, that when I had my 
second child I did it with no pain relief at all.
When I had the third one, I was in so much pain that the nursing staff 
bullied me into having pethidine again (against my better judgement as 
it had made me so ill the first time) - my son nearly died as his heart 
stopped (birth too fast) and had to have an anti-narcotic injection.
I didn't even know up until then what was in pethidine - I asked why he 
had had to have an anti-narc jab since I was not a drug user and that's 
when I found out. Pethidine never killed any pain for me at all.
My fourth and fifth children I had with no pain relief at all.

I would like to hear anyone from the anti-brigade justify the use of 
'dangerous' and usually illegal drugs in labour (where the drug readily 
crosses the placenta to the infant) and also in pain relief for cancer 
sufferers etc. - it seems that it is acceptable if you have a good 
'excuse'.

Noticed at Thu, 21 Aug 2008 11:54:03 +0100: Maria informed us:

> I would like to hear anyone from the anti-brigade justify the use of
> 'dangerous' and usually illegal drugs in labour (where the drug readily
> crosses the placenta to the infant) and also in pain relief for cancer
> sufferers etc. - it seems that it is acceptable if you have a good
> 'excuse'.

Opiates/opiods aren't as dangerous as the moral brigade say. The only side
effects from pharmaceutical grade opiates are constipation, depressed
breathing response (which is why Heroin is a heroic cough suppressant) and
addiction. Endorphins are natural opioids. Even Mr Ret has class A drugs
in his brain.

-- 
Dr John Watson
Baker Street

"Maria"  wrote in message 
news:z4SdnUnz-LOq1DDVnZ2dnUVZ8v3inZ2d@bt.com...
> I had pethidine with my first child and was so sick, that when I had my 
> second child I did it with no pain relief at all.

You should have been told the side-effects and the guidelines are that you 
should be administered an anti-emetic along with it.

> When I had the third one, I was in so much pain that the nursing staff 
> bullied me into having pethidine again (against my better judgement as it 
> had made me so ill the first time) - my son nearly died as his heart 
> stopped (birth too fast) and had to have an anti-narcotic injection.
> I didn't even know up until then what was in pethidine - I asked why he 
> had had to have an anti-narc jab since I was not a drug user and that's 
> when I found out. Pethidine never killed any pain for me at all.

Studies have showed that it does not really kill pain, just makes you less 
likely to care. It is a good relaxant.

> I would like to hear anyone from the anti-brigade justify the use of 
> 'dangerous' and usually illegal drugs in labour (where the drug readily 
> crosses the placenta to the infant) and also in pain relief for cancer 
> sufferers etc. - it seems that it is acceptable if you have a good 
> 'excuse'.

When I was given opiates I have no acverse reactions at all, neither did my 
wife. My mother OTOH sufferred very badly post-hip op because of the 
opiates.
Nice to have the option to use it when necessary I suppose.

Andy

AndyW wrote:
> "Maria"  wrote in message 
> news:z4SdnUnz-LOq1DDVnZ2dnUVZ8v3inZ2d@bt.com...
>> I had pethidine with my first child and was so sick, that when I had my 
>> second child I did it with no pain relief at all.
> 
> You should have been told the side-effects and the guidelines are that you 
> should be administered an anti-emetic along with it.

This was back in 1983 - they herded you around like sheep and told you 
nothing about anything, just administering drugs without a mention of 
what they were. I also got 42 stitches because they routinely cut the 
perineum...

> 
>> When I had the third one, I was in so much pain that the nursing staff 
>> bullied me into having pethidine again (against my better judgement as it 
>> had made me so ill the first time) - my son nearly died as his heart 
>> stopped (birth too fast) and had to have an anti-narcotic injection.
>> I didn't even know up until then what was in pethidine - I asked why he 
>> had had to have an anti-narc jab since I was not a drug user and that's 
>> when I found out. Pethidine never killed any pain for me at all.
> 
> Studies have showed that it does not really kill pain, just makes you less 
> likely to care. It is a good relaxant.

What it did was make me feel that I could not control what was going on. 
Gas and air also, so I didn't have any of that either!

>> I would like to hear anyone from the anti-brigade justify the use of 
>> 'dangerous' and usually illegal drugs in labour (where the drug readily 
>> crosses the placenta to the infant) and also in pain relief for cancer 
>> sufferers etc. - it seems that it is acceptable if you have a good 
>> 'excuse'.
> 
> When I was given opiates I have no acverse reactions at all, neither did my 
> wife. My mother OTOH sufferred very badly post-hip op because of the 
> opiates.
> Nice to have the option to use it when necessary I suppose.

Everything makes me sick, so I'm not a good example of a typical reaction!

"Maria"  wrote in message 
news:LKmdnfHhwL7B9DDVnZ2dnUVZ8vqdnZ2d@bt.com...
> This was back in 1983 - they herded you around like sheep and told you 
> nothing about anything, just administering drugs without a mention of

Ah - becomes clear. I was born in the 60s when my mother was told what time 
she was sheduled for the delivery room. Back then it was worse with women 
scheduled and induced to pop sprogs on time. But then back then it was very 
'industrial'. My friend went in to get a nodule removed from the back of his 
throat and they whipped out his (perfectly healthy) adenoids and tonsils to 
prevent 'later problems.'


> what they were. I also got 42 stitches because they routinely cut the 
> perineum...

yuk

Andy