Just seen on Country File where a farmer vaccinating cattle for Blue Tongue
was explaining that although they were organic - or "nearly organic"
whstever that means, possibly in conversion, - she needed a derogation (sp)
from the Soil Assoc to do the vaccination.

Why? Animals do not become non-organic if they have a disease and get over
it by their own resistance so why should artificial introduction of the
disease - not articial  <cure> be any different?

I think the SA hasn't got its act together on this one. Years ago when we
were considering becoming organic the local SA people told us that
vaccination was not allowed but the SA central management said that it was
if there was a likelyhood (local, if appropriate) of getting the disease.
AIUI it was not a "derogation". There is a likelyhood throughout UK for
Blue Tongue so why should derogation,  as in "special permission", be
needed.

And, above all that, why is it considered any different from getting the
disease "naturally"?

The SA attitude to vaccination - the attitude as portrayed by the
difference between central and local opinions - was one of the reasons why
we decided not to bother with organic. There was no way I was going to
subject my lambs to suffer and die unnecessarily of pasteurella which is
common in our local climate and I was not prepared to bother with any
argument with the local SA about vaccination even if I was certain to win
it on a call to their central organisation.

Cheers
Jane

-- 

Jane G       :      j.gillett@higherstert.co.uk            :        S Devon

On 2008-08-17, Jane Gillett  wrote:
> Just seen on Country File where a farmer vaccinating cattle for Blue Tongue
> was explaining that although they were organic - or "nearly organic"
> whstever that means, possibly in conversion, - she needed a derogation (sp)
> from the Soil Assoc to do the vaccination.
>
> Why? Animals do not become non-organic if they have a disease and get over
> it by their own resistance so why should artificial introduction of the
> disease - not articial  <cure> be any different?
>
> I think the SA hasn't got its act together on this one. Years ago when we
> were considering becoming organic the local SA people told us that
> vaccination was not allowed but the SA central management said that it was
> if there was a likelyhood (local, if appropriate) of getting the disease.
> AIUI it was not a "derogation". There is a likelyhood throughout UK for
> Blue Tongue so why should derogation,  as in "special permission", be
> needed.
>
> And, above all that, why is it considered any different from getting the
> disease "naturally"?
>
> The SA attitude to vaccination - the attitude as portrayed by the
> difference between central and local opinions - was one of the reasons why
> we decided not to bother with organic. There was no way I was going to
> subject my lambs to suffer and die unnecessarily of pasteurella which is
> common in our local climate and I was not prepared to bother with any
> argument with the local SA about vaccination even if I was certain to win
> it on a call to their central organisation.

As I.
Personally, I asked what was the position with dipping sheep for sheep
scab, one would have to leave the `scheme' for two years, but the problem
here is that sheep scab arrives about every two years, so organic is not
an option. I am as close to organic as can be, minimum dosing, very little
artificial manure used (luckily this year, as unmanured meadows stood
better under the rain, will have to wait for wrapped silage to be opened
to see if it is any good), but one has to submit to the `high priests' to
get designation. Rant, rant, going along the road today, I saw where the
tarred surface had been swept away where a flood had come down a field,
out through a gate, across the road, and on.

Am doing as little as possible with sheep at present, its too easy to
stress them, and bring on pneumonia.

-- 
Greymaus
 .
  .
...

On 17 Aug 2008 14:28:11 GMT, greymaus  wrote:

>On 2008-08-17, Jane Gillett  wrote:
>> Just seen on Country File where a farmer vaccinating cattle for Blue Tongue
>> was explaining that although they were organic - or "nearly organic"
>> whstever that means, possibly in conversion, - she needed a derogation (sp)
>> from the Soil Assoc to do the vaccination.
>>
>> Why? Animals do not become non-organic if they have a disease and get over
>> it by their own resistance so why should artificial introduction of the
>> disease - not articial  <cure> be any different?
>>
>> I think the SA hasn't got its act together on this one. Years ago when we
>> were considering becoming organic the local SA people told us that
>> vaccination was not allowed but the SA central management said that it was
>> if there was a likelyhood (local, if appropriate) of getting the disease.
>> AIUI it was not a "derogation". There is a likelyhood throughout UK for
>> Blue Tongue so why should derogation,  as in "special permission", be
>> needed.
>>
>> And, above all that, why is it considered any different from getting the
>> disease "naturally"?
>>
>> The SA attitude to vaccination - the attitude as portrayed by the
>> difference between central and local opinions - was one of the reasons why
>> we decided not to bother with organic. There was no way I was going to
>> subject my lambs to suffer and die unnecessarily of pasteurella which is
>> common in our local climate and I was not prepared to bother with any
>> argument with the local SA about vaccination even if I was certain to win
>> it on a call to their central organisation.
>
>As I.
>Personally, I asked what was the position with dipping sheep for sheep
>scab, one would have to leave the `scheme' for two years, but the problem
>here is that sheep scab arrives about every two years, so organic is not
>an option. I am as close to organic as can be, minimum dosing, very little
>artificial manure used (luckily this year, as unmanured meadows stood
>better under the rain, will have to wait for wrapped silage to be opened
>to see if it is any good), but one has to submit to the `high priests' to
>get designation. Rant, rant, going along the road today, I saw where the
>tarred surface had been swept away where a flood had come down a field,
>out through a gate, across the road, and on.
>
>Am doing as little as possible with sheep at present, its too easy to
>stress them, and bring on pneumonia.

It always bothers me when you allow unelected groups exclusive use of
a perfectly normal English word like "organic."

All organisations seek power, then more power and then extensions to
their power, exercising it as they go to raise funds.

They then use those funds to tell the world how deserving they are of
more funds and power.

I've come to cherish anyone who stands up the them, even if I
disapprove of the objector's objectives.

Ask yourselves how often the inaugural meeting of any organisation
starts discussing publicity and appoints a press officer.

If they don't, they are probably doing something they shouldn't and
want kept secret.

Do you think I've become a closet anarchist?

-- 
Regards
Pat Gardiner
Release the results of testing British pigs for MRSA and C.Diff now!
www.go-self-sufficient.com  and http://animal-epidemics.blogspot.com/

We are with OF & G, and all they wanted was for us to add it to our existing 
health plan.