Dear Mr. Gardiner:    Your peers continue to tout the so-called UK
superiority to producing pigs.   That's history.   Others in the world
shout how good they are now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Bjb3ZS_5bw&NR=1


Well, I fail to find anything validating that claim.   Instead, we
continually read your expoundings on how bad your vets have managed to
detrite your swine industy.   Your own veterinarians haven't done
their job.    That is apparent.   So is the fact that your swine
industry is in total disarray, courtesy of endemic swine disease and
other, multiple influences., not caused by this industry by itself.
It must be financially devastating for some people.

I know you have your own bones to pick, and rightfully so.    but
consider this please:

If your whole livelihood was centered on production of hogs, fit to be
raised, grown and fed for slaughter, and you had, say, 500 head to be
sold, only to learn that your market price would not allow you
anything but a loss, what would your alternative be?

Please, Mr. Gardiner, think for a minute or two.  You wonder why you
don't have support on this group.   You have stated your own family
are involved in production of hogs.   And you want to be recognized
for your good deeds.   I really believe your intentions have been
beneficial.   You've revealed some very serious problems.   But,
really, Pat, you are beginning to cause problems for some of your own
folks.

I submit that recognition.   I realize the significance of these
devastating and debilitating  swine circoviral  problems, that have
piled up, one on top of another.

The research that's been done, has proved relationships between swine
and humans that is innate.  That humans can be affected by these
circoviuses is casually stated by the
communque'...,  "Cook to 165 degrees F."   failing to mention to that
that needs to be a temp probed near a bone or in the middle of a cut
of pork.    Well, I don't personally like my pork chop that
"Done."     So just write me off, and I won't go to a hospital.
I'll just die, eating my home-cut meat, home-grown veggies and a
little-bit of lovin' sometimes.....all homeopathic, all -natural
therapy.   Would never go to a doctor again, if at all possible.

Please, Pat, just tone things down a little bit.   And make absolutely
sure, everything you post is correctomundo.

Burkie

On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 23:23:40 -0700 (PDT), Burkie 
wrote:

>Dear Mr. Gardiner:    Your peers continue to tout the so-called UK
>superiority to producing pigs.   That's history.   Others in the world
>shout how good they are now.
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Bjb3ZS_5bw&NR=1

I'm having trouble getting that video. I'll try later
>
>
>Well, I fail to find anything validating that claim.   Instead, we
>continually read your expoundings on how bad your vets have managed to
>detrite your swine industy.   Your own veterinarians haven't done
>their job.    That is apparent.   So is the fact that your swine
>industry is in total disarray, courtesy of endemic swine disease and
>other, multiple influences., not caused by this industry by itself.
>It must be financially devastating for some people.

Sure. I have run businesses. I know what it is to wake up at night
sweating.
>
>I know you have your own bones to pick, and rightfully so.    but
>consider this please:
>
>If your whole livelihood was centered on production of hogs, fit to be
>raised, grown and fed for slaughter, and you had, say, 500 head to be
>sold, only to learn that your market price would not allow you
>anything but a loss, what would your alternative be?

I'm well known to be risk adverse. Personally, it would be hard to
imagine me being in the position of the small guys at the bottom. They
have borrowed money against doubtful contracts and I suppose their
homes in order to set up a pig production business.

I never borrowed money (apart for a house mortgage for a time) - and
once was offered just such a contract to raise pigs (after retiring).
It was financially suicidal in my opinion.

It is rather like the housing crisis. Too many people borrowed too
much and took too many risks.

Of course, I feel sorry for them, but there is nothing I can do to
help, and if the government does too much they simply perpetuate the
crisis.

The banks lent too much, the borrowers borrowed too much. What is the
solution?
>
>Please, Mr. Gardiner, think for a minute or two.  You wonder why you
>don't have support on this group. 

No. I know that it was run by paid lobbyists. I have no problem with
lobbyists or them being paid, but it should be disclosed.

Once it became common knowledge that they were being paid. They had to
go.

The rest have made twits of themelves and are embarassed or worried
about getting involved.

> You have stated your own family
>are involved in production of hogs. 

They were once and it caused endless rows and wrecked a wedding.
However, there is a mutual agreement not to discuss pigs.

As far as I know, none now own any pigs although some are involved in
the meat and butchery trade. As I say, relations are now fine, but pig
disease is off limits.

>  And you want to be recognized
>for your good deeds. 

No, I'm not going to be recognised for anything. I wouldn't want it
and not naive enough to expect it.

The temptation to seek money or fame does not exist. 

Years ago, I would undoubtedly seen it as a business opportunity and
lived with whatever fame was essential to secure success. That is not
possible or viable given the circumstances, so the possibility is not
tapping on my shoulder.

Others will see a chance. Good Luck to them.

>  I really believe your intentions have been
>beneficial.   You've revealed some very serious problems.   But,
>really, Pat, you are beginning to cause problems for some of your own
>folks.

Yes, I deeply regret that, but anyone in business, who makes any kind
of a success will always hurt his competition. That competition is
people. I don't have all the answers, except that I would not
knowingly break the law so the competition was always legal. 

The alternative is some kind of communism....and sometimes the
ambitions of some of the leaders of British farming have more to do
with socialism than capitalism, even though they would not see it that
way.

That is why I blame the government vets and not the big corporations
or pig producers.

I'm in a situation where "winning" is impossible. I know that well
enough and just have to do my best and be content with that.

Today, I learned from the son of a woman I knew well who died
recently, that her executers can't find any of her money.

He was chuckling, sensible fellow, all he could find was a mass of
thank you letters from various "good causes." They had no idea and
were clearly not the least bit miffed although the sums were
substantial.

You don't always get recognition, you don't always want or need it and
it is bugger all good when you are dead. (I'll have the plaque put
just along side the front door please- the Politburo should be invited
to the unveiling.)

What you do have to do, is use whatever skills you have and are
legitimate to try to do good.

If that means being pushed in a bathchair to howl at bent vets. So be
it.
>
>I submit that recognition.   I realize the significance of these
>devastating and debilitating  swine circoviral  problems, that have
>piled up, one on top of another.
>
>The research that's been done, has proved relationships between swine
>and humans that is innate.  That humans can be affected by these
>circoviuses is casually stated by the
>communque'...,  "Cook to 165 degrees F."   failing to mention to that
>that needs to be a temp probed near a bone or in the middle of a cut
>of pork.    Well, I don't personally like my pork chop that
>"Done."     So just write me off, and I won't go to a hospital.
>I'll just die, eating my home-cut meat, home-grown veggies and a
>little-bit of lovin' sometimes.....all homeopathic, all -natural
>therapy.   Would never go to a doctor again, if at all possible.

Until very recent times, overcooked meat was universal here. It is
perhaps a pity things changed a bit.

Oddly enough the pig industry were publicly musing as to whether they
should encourage the use of more meat pink. It is a good job this news
came before they did any such thing.

But it underlines the dangers of this kind of marketing. 

>Please, Pat, just tone things down a little bit. 

I had to shout to raise my voice above the baying crowd of lobbyists
and their eccentric friends.

My normal method of persuasion is much more subtle.

>  And make absolutely
>sure, everything you post is correctomundo.

I'll do my best.

-- 
Regards
Pat Gardiner
Release the results of testing British pigs for MRSA and C.Diff now!
www.go-self-sufficient.com  and http://animal-epidemics.blogspot.com/
>
>Burkie

Dear Mr. Gardiner:   Excellent clarification and explanation.   When
people begin to realize the extent of your country's cover-up of this
situation, and by virtue of the superlative self-laudings of
proclaiming that so-called "superiority" of management and animal
health issues gone wrong.....and it's not limited to the UK, but is a
world-wide problem,   hand me a video-cam and let me go.   I
guarantee, I can find atrocities the likes of which will make the
Public cringe.   No amount of B.S. from DEFRA or BPEX or Scot
Executives propaganda will ever match my findings.   I can take a
video-cam to any hospital or nursing home here in the USA.   Those
videos can be made public.   Horrors of Health Care for the elderly
comes to mind.

It's time has come to address these problems and be real and
truthful.     Makes no difference as to who is at fault...these
problems aren't going away until someone has the guts to expose
them.   In the meantime, people that go to surgery or hospital are
risking their own lives.

Now we have monitoring organizations saying there is a problem.  CDC
in USA, Canada.   It's your country that has the "F" failure to do so.

Superiority?   Opposite result.   Total Failure.   Acknowledgment?
A   "D-".   As close to failure as one can get.

Honesty?   "F".

And right now you have your Scots playing poker, big time, gambling on
keeping their trade open, but putting thousands of head of livestock
and their producers at risk, hoping midges don't take a bite of a
naive animal.

That's just plain stupidity and greed.

Burkie