Yeah, I know, this is bordering on a mods post, but it sort of balance out 
some of the other crap.

Anyway, as some of yule know, my old Sylva is very very slowly receiving a 
new engine. (Only lord Doug knows how slowly).

A Kawasaki ZX10.

Whilst on holiday, it occured to me that I have a choice of how to shift 
gears.

1) Lever on the transmission tunnel linked via rod or cable to bike box.
2) Manual paddles on steering column via a rod or cable.
3) Electronic flappy paddles on the steering columns.

I can find a push button system that does flat upshifting via ignition cut, 
which seems to tick all of the boxes, but it doesn't do throttle blip for 
downshift, so you need to juggle the throttle whilst on the brakes to avoid 
rear wheel lockup.

I can also find a manual  flappy paddle system which does flat shift 
ignition cut and also throttle blip for downshift to avoid wheel lockup. 
This seems to tick more boxes.

I imagine the car is going to be plenty fast that I'll want to keep both 
hands on the wheel.

What would you have.

Gear lever, manual paddles, leccy paddles ?

Bob Sherunckle  wrote:

> I imagine the car is going to be plenty fast that I'll want to keep both
> hands on the wheel.
> 
> What would you have.
> 
> Gear lever, manual paddles, leccy paddles ?

Leccy paddles. Rods and cables are a PITA to keep feeling 'tight',
IYSWIM.
-- 
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
www.italiancar.co.uk - Ducati 750SS - Hongdou GY200
Alfa 75 TSpark - Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE

Bob Sherunckle wrote:
> Yeah, I know, this is bordering on a mods post, but it sort of balance out 
> some of the other crap.
> 
> Anyway, as some of yule know, my old Sylva is very very slowly receiving a 
> new engine. (Only lord Doug knows how slowly).
> 
> A Kawasaki ZX10.
> 
> Whilst on holiday, it occured to me that I have a choice of how to shift 
> gears.

BOB!  Is it really you?  Welcome back.

> 1) Lever on the transmission tunnel linked via rod or cable to bike box.
> 2) Manual paddles on steering column via a rod or cable.
> 3) Electronic flappy paddles on the steering columns.
> 
> I can find a push button system that does flat upshifting via ignition cut, 
> which seems to tick all of the boxes, but it doesn't do throttle blip for 
> downshift, so you need to juggle the throttle whilst on the brakes to avoid 
> rear wheel lockup.

Do you still need a throttle blip with no flywheel and very little 
internal engine inertia?

> I can also find a manual  flappy paddle system which does flat shift 
> ignition cut and also throttle blip for downshift to avoid wheel lockup. 
> This seems to tick more boxes.
> 
> I imagine the car is going to be plenty fast that I'll want to keep both 
> hands on the wheel.
> 
> What would you have.
> 
> Gear lever, manual paddles, leccy paddles ?

Leccy paddles are clearly cooler but I am (perhaps unnecessarily) 
imagining a world of pain to make it work properly and reliably.  How 
'bolt on' is such a system?

-- 
Douglas

"SteveH"  wrote in message 
news:1ik3cf3.28q70ka61m73N%steve@italiancar.co.uk...
> Bob Sherunckle  wrote:
>
>> I imagine the car is going to be plenty fast that I'll want to keep both
>> hands on the wheel.
>>
>> What would you have.
>>
>> Gear lever, manual paddles, leccy paddles ?
>
> Leccy paddles. Rods and cables are a PITA to keep feeling 'tight',
> IYSWIM.

Fine, so what setup does leccy paddles with clutchless downshifting  - flat 
shifting up the way is easy to find.

If this had throttle blip for downshift, it would be way up there on my 
list.

http://www.pingelcnc.com/pingelonline/video_hayabusa.htm

Douglas Payne  wrote:

> > Gear lever, manual paddles, leccy paddles ?
> 
> Leccy paddles are clearly cooler but I am (perhaps unnecessarily) 
> imagining a world of pain to make it work properly and reliably.  How
> 'bolt on' is such a system?

They've been around in the bike world for many years now - not too
expensive and very easy to bolt on.
-- 
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
www.italiancar.co.uk - Ducati 750SS - Hongdou GY200
Alfa 75 TSpark - Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE

"Bob Sherunckle"  wrote in message 
news:C72dncNFrugVU-bVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@bt.com...
> Yeah, I know, this is bordering on a mods post, but it sort of balance out 
> some of the other crap.
>
> Anyway, as some of yule know, my old Sylva is very very slowly receiving a 
> new engine. (Only lord Doug knows how slowly).
>
> A Kawasaki ZX10.
>
> Whilst on holiday, it occured to me that I have a choice of how to shift 
> gears.
>
> 1) Lever on the transmission tunnel linked via rod or cable to bike box.
> 2) Manual paddles on steering column via a rod or cable.
> 3) Electronic flappy paddles on the steering columns.
>
> I can find a push button system that does flat upshifting via ignition 
> cut, which seems to tick all of the boxes, but it doesn't do throttle blip 
> for downshift, so you need to juggle the throttle whilst on the brakes to 
> avoid rear wheel lockup.
>
> I can also find a manual  flappy paddle system which does flat shift 
> ignition cut and also throttle blip for downshift to avoid wheel lockup. 
> This seems to tick more boxes.
>
> I imagine the car is going to be plenty fast that I'll want to keep both 
> hands on the wheel.
>
> What would you have.
>
> Gear lever, manual paddles, leccy paddles ?
>

My mate's dad's 7 clone that I've posted pics of before (the orangeVortex) 
has an R1 engine, and that has a sequential shifter stick in the centre, and 
been that it's all set up with bike stuff you can flat shift anyway if you 
want, but he says they tend to clutch up the upshift, and not bother on the 
downshift (I think I've got that the right way round).

I don't know how helpful this info is, but they seem to have immense fun 
driving it, and it works well, and he drives it to work sometimes when it's 
sunny, and also took it the 90 odd miles to a kitcar show near Lincoln last 
year heh - so it must work ok on the road too.

It seems to me that manual paddles or electronic flappy paddles are just an 
unnecessary complication that could go wrong (especially the electronic 
ones!).  I think the sequential stick shifter, although the least 
interesting, is the best way to go personally.

-- 
Dan
Clio R27 F1 #65

"Douglas Payne"  wrote in message 
news:6e21fiF4vnfaU1@mid.individual.net...
> Bob Sherunckle wrote:
>> Yeah, I know, this is bordering on a mods post, but it sort of balance 
>> out some of the other crap.
>>
>> Anyway, as some of yule know, my old Sylva is very very slowly receiving 
>> a new engine. (Only lord Doug knows how slowly).
>>
>> A Kawasaki ZX10.
>>
>> Whilst on holiday, it occured to me that I have a choice of how to shift 
>> gears.
>
> BOB!  Is it really you?  Welcome back.
>
>> 1) Lever on the transmission tunnel linked via rod or cable to bike box.
>> 2) Manual paddles on steering column via a rod or cable.
>> 3) Electronic flappy paddles on the steering columns.
>>
>> I can find a push button system that does flat upshifting via ignition 
>> cut, which seems to tick all of the boxes, but it doesn't do throttle 
>> blip for downshift, so you need to juggle the throttle whilst on the 
>> brakes to avoid rear wheel lockup.
>
> Do you still need a throttle blip with no flywheel and very little 
> internal engine inertia?
>
>> I can also find a manual  flappy paddle system which does flat shift 
>> ignition cut and also throttle blip for downshift to avoid wheel lockup. 
>> This seems to tick more boxes.
>>
>> I imagine the car is going to be plenty fast that I'll want to keep both 
>> hands on the wheel.
>>
>> What would you have.
>>
>> Gear lever, manual paddles, leccy paddles ?
>
> Leccy paddles are clearly cooler but I am (perhaps unnecessarily) 
> imagining a world of pain to make it work properly and reliably.  How 
> 'bolt on' is such a system?

Very bolt on seems to be the answer.

I'm being a bit narrow minded here, but I have managed to lock up the back 
end going into the hairpin when I had the locost.
That was down to injudicious downshifting.
I want throttle blip on the downshift so that I can stand on the brakes and 
pull the left paddle three times - all within the straight bit between the 
esses and the hairpin.
Turn - nail throttle - flick right hand paddle ,2,3 - flick right hand 
paddle,2,3  - etc.....

Am I being idealistic ?

"Bob Sherunckle"  wrote in message 
news:25-dneYDW-_wTubVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "Douglas Payne"  wrote in message 
> news:6e21fiF4vnfaU1@mid.individual.net...
>> Bob Sherunckle wrote:
>>> Yeah, I know, this is bordering on a mods post, but it sort of balance 
>>> out some of the other crap.
>>>
>>> Anyway, as some of yule know, my old Sylva is very very slowly receiving 
>>> a new engine. (Only lord Doug knows how slowly).
>>>
>>> A Kawasaki ZX10.
>>>
>>> Whilst on holiday, it occured to me that I have a choice of how to shift 
>>> gears.
>>
>> BOB!  Is it really you?  Welcome back.
>>
>>> 1) Lever on the transmission tunnel linked via rod or cable to bike box.
>>> 2) Manual paddles on steering column via a rod or cable.
>>> 3) Electronic flappy paddles on the steering columns.
>>>
>>> I can find a push button system that does flat upshifting via ignition 
>>> cut, which seems to tick all of the boxes, but it doesn't do throttle 
>>> blip for downshift, so you need to juggle the throttle whilst on the 
>>> brakes to avoid rear wheel lockup.
>>
>> Do you still need a throttle blip with no flywheel and very little 
>> internal engine inertia?
>>
>>> I can also find a manual  flappy paddle system which does flat shift 
>>> ignition cut and also throttle blip for downshift to avoid wheel lockup. 
>>> This seems to tick more boxes.
>>>
>>> I imagine the car is going to be plenty fast that I'll want to keep both 
>>> hands on the wheel.
>>>
>>> What would you have.
>>>
>>> Gear lever, manual paddles, leccy paddles ?
>>
>> Leccy paddles are clearly cooler but I am (perhaps unnecessarily) 
>> imagining a world of pain to make it work properly and reliably.  How 
>> 'bolt on' is such a system?
>
> Very bolt on seems to be the answer.
>
> I'm being a bit narrow minded here, but I have managed to lock up the back 
> end going into the hairpin when I had the locost.
> That was down to injudicious downshifting.
> I want throttle blip on the downshift so that I can stand on the brakes 
> and pull the left paddle three times - all within the straight bit between 
> the esses and the hairpin.
> Turn - nail throttle - flick right hand paddle ,2,3 - flick right hand 
> paddle,2,3  - etc.....
>

Hmmm, the only systems that work that well in real life, are on Supercars or 
the new DSG setups - which are either ridiculously expensive, and fragile, 
or just ridiculous expensive, because the box itself is made of titanium, 
tanks and Rambo...

-- 
Dan
Clio R27 F1 #65

DanB  wrote:

> > Gear lever, manual paddles, leccy paddles ?
> >
> 
> My mate's dad's 7 clone that I've posted pics of before (the orangeVortex)
> has an R1 engine, and that has a sequential shifter stick in the centre, and
> been that it's all set up with bike stuff you can flat shift anyway if you
> want, but he says they tend to clutch up the upshift, and not bother on the
> downshift (I think I've got that the right way round).

It's t'other way around.

> I don't know how helpful this info is, but they seem to have immense fun
> driving it, and it works well, and he drives it to work sometimes when it's
> sunny, and also took it the 90 odd miles to a kitcar show near Lincoln last
> year heh - so it must work ok on the road too.
> 
> It seems to me that manual paddles or electronic flappy paddles are just an
> unnecessary complication that could go wrong (especially the electronic
> ones!).  I think the sequential stick shifter, although the least 
> interesting, is the best way to go personally.

Electronic acutation of a sequential shift is very simple to to - it's
just a simple push / pull. Much easier than automating a 'normal' H-gate
car box.
-- 
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
www.italiancar.co.uk - Ducati 750SS - Hongdou GY200
Alfa 75 TSpark - Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE

"SteveH"  wrote in message 
news:1ik3dh1.16ab9b9mbb3bhN%steve@italiancar.co.uk...
> DanB  wrote:
>
>> > Gear lever, manual paddles, leccy paddles ?
>> >
>>
>> My mate's dad's 7 clone that I've posted pics of before (the 
>> orangeVortex)
>> has an R1 engine, and that has a sequential shifter stick in the centre, 
>> and
>> been that it's all set up with bike stuff you can flat shift anyway if 
>> you
>> want, but he says they tend to clutch up the upshift, and not bother on 
>> the
>> downshift (I think I've got that the right way round).
>
> It's t'other way around.

Oops heh, I couldn't remember from riding either it's been that long.


>> I don't know how helpful this info is, but they seem to have immense fun
>> driving it, and it works well, and he drives it to work sometimes when 
>> it's
>> sunny, and also took it the 90 odd miles to a kitcar show near Lincoln 
>> last
>> year heh - so it must work ok on the road too.
>>
>> It seems to me that manual paddles or electronic flappy paddles are just 
>> an
>> unnecessary complication that could go wrong (especially the electronic
>> ones!).  I think the sequential stick shifter, although the least
>> interesting, is the best way to go personally.
>
> Electronic acutation of a sequential shift is very simple to to - it's
> just a simple push / pull. Much easier than automating a 'normal' H-gate
> car box.
>

I'm sure it is, but it's still adding an extra bit of, probably quite 
pricey, electronics.

-- 
Dan
Clio R27 F1 #65

DanB  wrote:

> >
> > Electronic acutation of a sequential shift is very simple to to - it's
> > just a simple push / pull. Much easier than automating a 'normal' H-gate
> > car box.
> >
> 
> I'm sure it is, but it's still adding an extra bit of, probably quite
> pricey, electronics.

Surprisingly cheap.

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/products/ProductDetail.asp?cls=MCYCLE&pcod
e=PDQ4-101

-- 
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
www.italiancar.co.uk - Ducati 750SS - Hongdou GY200
Alfa 75 TSpark - Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE

"SteveH"  wrote in message 
news:1ik3e5v.woc6so1shu8gN%steve@italiancar.co.uk...
> DanB  wrote:
>
>> >
>> > Electronic acutation of a sequential shift is very simple to to - it's
>> > just a simple push / pull. Much easier than automating a 'normal' 
>> > H-gate
>> > car box.
>> >
>>
>> I'm sure it is, but it's still adding an extra bit of, probably quite
>> pricey, electronics.
>
> Surprisingly cheap.
>
> http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/products/ProductDetail.asp?cls=MCYCLE&pcod
> e=PDQ4-101
>

This was the one I had in mind

www.trickshifter.com

"Bob Sherunckle"  wrote in message 
news:C72dncNFrugVU-bVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@bt.com...
> Yeah, I know, this is bordering on a mods post, but it sort of balance out 
> some of the other crap.
>
> Anyway, as some of yule know, my old Sylva is very very slowly receiving a 
> new engine. (Only lord Doug knows how slowly).
>
> A Kawasaki ZX10.
>
> Whilst on holiday, it occured to me that I have a choice of how to shift 
> gears.
>
> 1) Lever on the transmission tunnel linked via rod or cable to bike box.
> 2) Manual paddles on steering column via a rod or cable.
> 3) Electronic flappy paddles on the steering columns.
>
> I can find a push button system that does flat upshifting via ignition cut, 
> which seems to tick all of the boxes, but it doesn't do throttle blip for 
> downshift, so you need to juggle the throttle whilst on the brakes to avoid 
> rear wheel lockup.
>
> I can also find a manual  flappy paddle system which does flat shift 
> ignition cut and also throttle blip for downshift to avoid wheel lockup. 
> This seems to tick more boxes.
>
> I imagine the car is going to be plenty fast that I'll want to keep both 
> hands on the wheel.
>
> What would you have.
>
> Gear lever, manual paddles, leccy paddles ?

Try giving ProShift a ring on 01332 294 994 and speak to them, (they will try 
to sell you one of there systems, but I here they are honest).

"Depresion" <127.0.0.1> wrote in message 
news:bYKdnbFc9dIXQebVnZ2dnUVZ8uidnZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>
> "Bob Sherunckle"  wrote in message 
> news:C72dncNFrugVU-bVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@bt.com...
>> Yeah, I know, this is bordering on a mods post, but it sort of balance 
>> out some of the other crap.
>>
>> Anyway, as some of yule know, my old Sylva is very very slowly receiving 
>> a new engine. (Only lord Doug knows how slowly).
>>
>> A Kawasaki ZX10.
>>
>> Whilst on holiday, it occured to me that I have a choice of how to shift 
>> gears.
>>
>> 1) Lever on the transmission tunnel linked via rod or cable to bike box.
>> 2) Manual paddles on steering column via a rod or cable.
>> 3) Electronic flappy paddles on the steering columns.
>>
>> I can find a push button system that does flat upshifting via ignition 
>> cut, which seems to tick all of the boxes,

Standard airshifters do that too. I always used them, without a problem. 
Like you say you can use a solenoid instead to push and an ignition cut. I 
used to arange my own though.


but it doesn't do throttle blip for
>> downshift, so you need to juggle the throttle whilst on the brakes to 
>> avoid rear wheel lockup.


So fit another microswitch that blips via another cheap solenoid and a 555 
timer chip ti limit duration to your choice via a pot?

Should be easy to arrange. The microswitch needs to operate just before the 
gear down actuator one. And limited to a duration of say 1/30 of a second. 
Or whatever trial and error says is smoothest.

Trev langfikeld used to do a system that worked like that for disabled 
up/down shifters on bikes.