I chickened out and we had the Audi's new front struts fitted at a local 
garage while they were doing a wheelbearing for us.  I did the rears the 
other day as detailed in another post.

Koni FSDs for anyone who's interested.

It has made a real noticeable diference to the feel of the car.

Now all it needs is some rattles sorting and a dirty big 1.8T engine 
conversion.  (c:

-- 
Douglas

On 14 Jul, 21:41, Douglas Payne  wrote:
> I chickened out and we had the Audi's new front struts fitted at a local
> garage while they were doing a wheelbearing for us.  I did the rears the
> other day as detailed in another post.
>
> Koni FSDs for anyone who's interested.
>
> It has made a real noticeable diference to the feel of the car.
>
> Now all it needs is some rattles sorting and a dirty big 1.8T engine
> conversion.  (c:

I'm loathed to do too much to the Passat suspension when it's changed
in the near future, but polybushes combined with maybe slightly
stiffer shocks than standard should make it that bit better than
standard without ruining the ride.

It looks low enough to me as standard anyway, being a Sport model.

I just find it a bit twangy over the bumps at the mo - for a nose
heavy barge it's actually quite agile in the handling stakes as
standard.

--
JackH

wrote in message 
news:6fde0444-b681-4be2-9ad5-274b450dd41a@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
On 14 Jul, 21:41, Douglas Payne  wrote:
> I chickened out and we had the Audi's new front struts fitted at a local
> garage while they were doing a wheelbearing for us. I did the rears the
> other day as detailed in another post.
>
> Koni FSDs for anyone who's interested.
>
> It has made a real noticeable diference to the feel of the car.
>
> Now all it needs is some rattles sorting and a dirty big 1.8T engine
> conversion. (c:

I'm loathed to do too much to the Passat suspension when it's changed
in the near future, but polybushes combined with maybe slightly
stiffer shocks than standard should make it that bit better than
standard without ruining the ride.

It looks low enough to me as standard anyway, being a Sport model.
*************************************************

But it's the Sport model, of a Passat :-)

It could *always* do to be lower, nevermind if it's a Sport model, and 
especially if it's the Sport model of a Passat!

-- 
Dan
Clio R27 F1 #65

DanB  wrote:

> But it's the Sport model, of a Passat :-)
> 
> It could *always* do to be lower, nevermind if it's a Sport model, and
> especially if it's the Sport model of a Passat!

If you value your teeth and spine, you don't lower a Passat Sport.
-- 
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
www.italiancar.co.uk - Ducati 750SS - Hongdou GY200
Alfa 75 TSpark - Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE

"SteveH"  wrote in message 
news:1ik3bda.ghnsqe1qfxh1sN%steve@italiancar.co.uk...
> DanB  wrote:
>
>> But it's the Sport model, of a Passat :-)
>>
>> It could *always* do to be lower, nevermind if it's a Sport model, and
>> especially if it's the Sport model of a Passat!
>
> If you value your teeth and spine, you don't lower a Passat Sport.
>

Why?  With a decent matched setup it needent be much harsher than standard. 
I grant you it will be a bit harsher, but how bad can they be from the 
factory?

-- 
Dan
Clio R27 F1 #65

On 14 Jul, 22:50, "DanB"  wrote:
> "SteveH"  wrote in message
>
> news:1ik3bda.ghnsqe1qfxh1sN%steve@italiancar.co.uk...
>
> > DanB  wrote:
>
> >> But it's the Sport model, of a Passat :-)
>
> >> It could *always* do to be lower, nevermind if it's a Sport model, and
> >> especially if it's the Sport model of a Passat!
>
> > If you value your teeth and spine, you don't lower a Passat Sport.
>
> Why?  With a decent matched setup it needent be much harsher than standard.
> I grant you it will be a bit harsher, but how bad can they be from the
> factory?

Well... I would do it if I knew I was going to get a favourable result
in the end - i.e: reasonable comfy ride, a loss of the current
'wobbles' I can feel at the arse end when it hits potholes, and no
bottoming out over standard.

Don't want much really, do I?

The thing is, I've been in too many lowered cars in the past where the
ride has been fecked up by mods like this - I'd even go for a set of
18s as well if I thought I could do all that and still achieve the
above aims.

--
JackH

wrote in message 
news:214f16d5-d0bd-405f-807d-6f8446c9c42c@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On 14 Jul, 22:50, "DanB"  wrote:
> "SteveH"  wrote in message
>
> news:1ik3bda.ghnsqe1qfxh1sN%steve@italiancar.co.uk...
>
> > DanB  wrote:
>
> >> But it's the Sport model, of a Passat :-)
>
> >> It could *always* do to be lower, nevermind if it's a Sport model, and
> >> especially if it's the Sport model of a Passat!
>
> > If you value your teeth and spine, you don't lower a Passat Sport.
>
> Why? With a decent matched setup it needent be much harsher than standard.
> I grant you it will be a bit harsher, but how bad can they be from the
> factory?

Well... I would do it if I knew I was going to get a favourable result
in the end - i.e: reasonable comfy ride, a loss of the current
'wobbles' I can feel at the arse end when it hits potholes, and no
bottoming out over standard.

Don't want much really, do I?

The thing is, I've been in too many lowered cars in the past where the
ride has been fecked up by mods like this - I'd even go for a set of
18s as well if I thought I could do all that and still achieve the
above aims.


*****

Have you check and played with the tyre pressure?

Dad's 1.9 TDI B5.5 automatic (what a mouthful but I think I've described it 
correctly) is a collection of unhappy compromises.  Tyre pressures at 
standard, economy is okay, ride is fussy from the back.  Reduce the 
pressures, economy drops noticeably, ride better at the back, but it starts 
to wallow.  This is the Highline model with the slightly-too-small-looking 
15s.

Hard to describe.  Feels a bit overdamped.

Still, the engine / transmission compromise is a much bigger one.  It's not 
right after VW have tried to fix it umpteen times.

-- 
The DervMan
www.dervman.com

wrote in message 
news:214f16d5-d0bd-405f-807d-6f8446c9c42c@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On 14 Jul, 22:50, "DanB"  wrote:
> "SteveH"  wrote in message
>
> news:1ik3bda.ghnsqe1qfxh1sN%steve@italiancar.co.uk...
>
> > DanB  wrote:
>
> >> But it's the Sport model, of a Passat :-)
>
> >> It could *always* do to be lower, nevermind if it's a Sport model, and
> >> especially if it's the Sport model of a Passat!
>
> > If you value your teeth and spine, you don't lower a Passat Sport.
>
> Why? With a decent matched setup it needent be much harsher than standard.
> I grant you it will be a bit harsher, but how bad can they be from the
> factory?

Well... I would do it if I knew I was going to get a favourable result
in the end - i.e: reasonable comfy ride, a loss of the current
'wobbles' I can feel at the arse end when it hits potholes, and no
bottoming out over standard.

Don't want much really, do I?

The thing is, I've been in too many lowered cars in the past where the
ride has been fecked up by mods like this - I'd even go for a set of
18s as well if I thought I could do all that and still achieve the
above aims.
**************************************************

Well, you can uprate it without lowering it as well :-)  If you're younger 
days modded cars experience was like mine, slammed Novas etc, then we're 
really in a different kettle of fish, as they were usually shite cars, on 
standard dampers (which were old) with cheapo lowering springs heh.  That 
combo does usually give an appauling ride.  Also heavily modded stuff track 
is also used on track tends to be way too stiff, and Jap cars modded with 
their home land mods from company like Tein are always way too stiff cos 
those parts are setup for Jap roads.  Cars with Tein suspension are always 
uncomfortable, I don't really have much other decent, modded, jap car 
experience though, every one seems to use Tein heh!

What are the biggest factory wheels Passats came with?  Are they on the W8? 
Didn't that have some awesome interior lighting that the others didn't get?

-- 
Dan
Clio R27 F1 #65

On 14 Jul, 23:07, "DervMan"  wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:214f16d5-d0bd-405f-807d-6f8446c9c42c@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On 14 Jul, 22:50, "DanB"  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "SteveH"  wrote in message
>
> >news:1ik3bda.ghnsqe1qfxh1sN%steve@italiancar.co.uk...
>
> > > DanB  wrote:
>
> > >> But it's the Sport model, of a Passat :-)
>
> > >> It could *always* do to be lower, nevermind if it's a Sport model, and
> > >> especially if it's the Sport model of a Passat!
>
> > > If you value your teeth and spine, you don't lower a Passat Sport.
>
> > Why? With a decent matched setup it needent be much harsher than standard.
> > I grant you it will be a bit harsher, but how bad can they be from the
> > factory?
>
> Well... I would do it if I knew I was going to get a favourable result
> in the end - i.e: reasonable comfy ride, a loss of the current
> 'wobbles' I can feel at the arse end when it hits potholes, and no
> bottoming out over standard.
>
> Don't want much really, do I?
>
> The thing is, I've been in too many lowered cars in the past where the
> ride has been fecked up by mods like this - I'd even go for a set of
> 18s as well if I thought I could do all that and still achieve the
> above aims.
>
> *****
>
> Have you check and played with the tyre pressure?

Aye... still jostles around at the back, so maybe it's in need of
bushes asap.

Suppose I ought to get it up on the ramps sometime and have a proper
look before I carry on looking into the various options available
shock / bush wise.

> Dad's 1.9 TDI B5.5 automatic (what a mouthful but I think I've described it
> correctly) is a collection of unhappy compromises.  Tyre pressures at
> standard, economy is okay, ride is fussy from the back.  Reduce the
> pressures, economy drops noticeably, ride better at the back, but it starts
> to wallow.  This is the Highline model with the slightly-too-small-looking
> 15s.

The Sport comes with 16s... I've had it parked next to SE models
before, and even taking into account the smaller rims on those, you
can see that the Sport is noticably lower.

> Hard to describe.  Feels a bit overdamped.

This just feels a bit too eager to bounce on uneven surfaces... I'm
actually keen to see what I can do to improve the ride to silence all
the VAG ride critics in here, as well. ;-)

> Still, the engine / transmission compromise is a much bigger one.  It's not
> right after VW have tried to fix it umpteen times.

I'm not just saying it... bar the usual clogging of the drains under
the windscreen leading to the 'Body Computer' under the passenger seat
playing up (1) and some issues caused by the cock in the workshop in
the supplying dealers breaking things when he fixed the dodgy speaker
connections in one of the rear doors just after I first had it, mine's
been utterly reliable.

78k on the clock so far.

--
JackH

(1) Alarm going off for no reason, central locking unlocking when it
felt like it, temp gauge failing...

jackhackettuk@yahoo.co.uk writes:

> On 14 Jul, 22:50, "DanB"  wrote:
>> "SteveH"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:1ik3bda.ghnsqe1qfxh1sN%steve@italiancar.co.uk...
>>
>> > DanB  wrote:
>>
>> >> But it's the Sport model, of a Passat :-)
>>
>> >> It could *always* do to be lower, nevermind if it's a Sport model, and
>> >> especially if it's the Sport model of a Passat!
>>
>> > If you value your teeth and spine, you don't lower a Passat Sport.
>>
>> Why?  With a decent matched setup it needent be much harsher than standard.
>> I grant you it will be a bit harsher, but how bad can they be from the
>> factory?
>
> Well... I would do it if I knew I was going to get a favourable result
> in the end - i.e: reasonable comfy ride, a loss of the current
> 'wobbles' I can feel at the arse end when it hits potholes, and no
> bottoming out over standard.
>
> Don't want much really, do I?
>
> The thing is, I've been in too many lowered cars in the past where the
> ride has been fecked up by mods like this - I'd even go for a set of
> 18s as well if I thought I could do all that and still achieve the
> above aims.

It depends on the suspension you're putting on the car (doh) - the MX5
is running Gaz coilcovers, which amazingly enough are amongst the
cheapest coilovers available for that car and it doesn't feel that
harsh. I mean, it's obvious that the car is lowered slightly and that
the suspension is a tad stiffer but it's not crashy and annoying the way
the Skyline was.

The M3 I've mentioned before has Leda suspension on it which cost, erm,
a little more and that is fine, despite being lowered noticeably. More
than the MX5, I think. But the bill for that kind of fell into the "who
put the comma in the wrong place" category.

-- 
'89 Mazda RX-7 Convertible			Mazda MX-5 trackday shed
'92 Mazda RX-7 					Audi A8

DanB wrote:

> 
> Well, you can uprate it without lowering it as well :-) 
In days gone by a good few people reckoned standard springs and some 
decent dampers was the way to go on most VAG cars.

I'll never understand the obsession with lowering: dropping a bit seems 
reasonable, but I really don't like 'slammed' cars.

"Chris Bartram"  wrote in message 
news:1216109950.10583.1@proxy00.news.clara.net...
> DanB wrote:
>
>>
>> Well, you can uprate it without lowering it as well :-)

> In days gone by a good few people reckoned standard springs and some 
> decent dampers was the way to go on most VAG cars.

The last time I had a pint with a VAG fan, this hadn't changed too much; it 
was just over a year ago.

> I'll never understand the obsession with lowering: dropping a bit seems 
> reasonable, but I really don't like 'slammed' cars.

Me neither, but that's discoloured because too many slammed machines also 
ride like they have no suspension whatsoever.  On an even slightly rough 
track or shoot road, they're all over the place.

I did lower the Ka by ~20mm, but this lowering was a side effect of the Ford 
Racing springs and matching dampers we fitted.  Lots of people reckoned that 
Kermy wasn't low enough because with the right coilover, you could lower the 
Ka by ~50mm.  Same people pointed and laughed at the 13" sized wheels 
wearing 185/60s.  Meh; none of the above took their Ka around Silverstone at 
Ford Fair when they had the chance (and you bet I was taking mine...).

Anyway my theory as to why I don't care for the looks of the ride height 
stem from the fact that I don't like looking at my reflection in the 
mirror... ;-)

-- 
The DervMan
www.dervman.com

"DervMan"  wrote in message 
news:487c65ce$0$26076$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk...
> "Chris Bartram"  wrote in message 
> news:1216109950.10583.1@proxy00.news.clara.net...
>> DanB wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Well, you can uprate it without lowering it as well :-)
>
>> In days gone by a good few people reckoned standard springs and some 
>> decent dampers was the way to go on most VAG cars.
>
> The last time I had a pint with a VAG fan, this hadn't changed too much; it 
> was just over a year ago.

Must be a cheapskate, KW V3s are the way to go across the VAG range. Not 
cheep though.

> Anyway my theory as to why I don't care for the looks of the ride height 
> stem from the fact that I don't like looking at my reflection in the 
> mirror... ;-)

Ok I may have to spell this out slowly but if you lower the car the mirrors 
and you are lowered together, you are not any more likely to look at yourself 
in them after lowering. ;)

Chris Bartram wrote:
> DanB wrote:
> 
>>
>> Well, you can uprate it without lowering it as well :-) 
> In days gone by a good few people reckoned standard springs and some 
> decent dampers was the way to go on most VAG cars.
> 
> I'll never understand the obsession with lowering: dropping a bit seems 
> reasonable, but I really don't like 'slammed' cars.

Lowering slightly can help a lot, lowering by a lot pretty much never 
helps on a road car.

Problem is the Max Power wankers, they think that the lower a car is, 
the better it is. Luckily the first pothole they meet at speed soon 
writes off that idea...

-- 
Pete M - OMF#9

BMW 325i SE Touring
Range Rover V8 Turbo

"Wait! We can't stop here, this is Bat Country"

"Depresion" <127.0.0.1> wrote in message 
news:eJmdnfK5EOgG4uHVnZ2dnUVZ8trinZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>
> "DervMan"  wrote in message 
> news:487c65ce$0$26076$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk...
>> "Chris Bartram"  wrote in message 
>> news:1216109950.10583.1@proxy00.news.clara.net...
>>> DanB wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, you can uprate it without lowering it as well :-)
>>
>>> In days gone by a good few people reckoned standard springs and some 
>>> decent dampers was the way to go on most VAG cars.
>>
>> The last time I had a pint with a VAG fan, this hadn't changed too much; 
>> it was just over a year ago.
>
> Must be a cheapskate, KW V3s are the way to go across the VAG range. Not 
> cheep though.

Could be.  As you know I'm not a fan of the whole VAG thing.  I took it that 
keeping the standard springs and replacing the shockers was what he meant.

>> Anyway my theory as to why I don't care for the looks of the ride height 
>> stem from the fact that I don't like looking at my reflection in the 
>> mirror... ;-)
>
> Ok I may have to spell this out slowly but if you lower the car the 
> mirrors and you are lowered together, you are not any more likely to look 
> at yourself in them after lowering. ;)

Exactly!

-- 
The DervMan
www.dervman.com

Pete M wrote:
> Chris Bartram wrote:
>> DanB wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Well, you can uprate it without lowering it as well :-) 
>> In days gone by a good few people reckoned standard springs and some 
>> decent dampers was the way to go on most VAG cars.
>>
>> I'll never understand the obsession with lowering: dropping a bit 
>> seems reasonable, but I really don't like 'slammed' cars.
> 
> Lowering slightly can help a lot, lowering by a lot pretty much never 
> helps on a road car.
> 
> Problem is the Max Power wankers, they think that the lower a car is, 
> the better it is. Luckily the first pothole they meet at speed soon 
> writes off that idea...
> 

Or the first speed bump rips out the sump.

While we're on the subject: Coilovers. Whay are they the holy grail?

Are they any better than simply uprating the springs and dampers in the 
standard location (assuming the original spring/damper isn't a combined 
assembly), and if so, why?

"Chris Bartram"  wrote in message 
news:1216121274.26934.0@proxy00.news.clara.net...
> Pete M wrote:
>> Chris Bartram wrote:
>>> DanB wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, you can uprate it without lowering it as well :-)
>>> In days gone by a good few people reckoned standard springs and some 
>>> decent dampers was the way to go on most VAG cars.
>>>
>>> I'll never understand the obsession with lowering: dropping a bit seems 
>>> reasonable, but I really don't like 'slammed' cars.
>>
>> Lowering slightly can help a lot, lowering by a lot pretty much never 
>> helps on a road car.
>>
>> Problem is the Max Power wankers, they think that the lower a car is, the 
>> better it is. Luckily the first pothole they meet at speed soon writes 
>> off that idea...
>>
> Or the first speed bump rips out the sump.
>
> While we're on the subject: Coilovers. Whay are they the holy grail?
>
> Are they any better than simply uprating the springs and dampers in the 
> standard location (assuming the original spring/damper isn't a combined 
> assembly), and if so, why?

Max Mower Moppets will tell you it's because they can be wound down to be 
low as having three phat mates in the car.  Or something of this nature. ;-)

-- 
The DervMan
www.dervman.com

Chris Bartram wrote:
> Pete M wrote:
>> Chris Bartram wrote:
>>> DanB wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, you can uprate it without lowering it as well :-) 
>>> In days gone by a good few people reckoned standard springs and some 
>>> decent dampers was the way to go on most VAG cars.
>>>
>>> I'll never understand the obsession with lowering: dropping a bit 
>>> seems reasonable, but I really don't like 'slammed' cars.
>>
>> Lowering slightly can help a lot, lowering by a lot pretty much never 
>> helps on a road car.
>>
>> Problem is the Max Power wankers, they think that the lower a car is, 
>> the better it is. Luckily the first pothole they meet at speed soon 
>> writes off that idea...
>>
> 
> Or the first speed bump rips out the sump.
> 
> While we're on the subject: Coilovers. Whay are they the holy grail?
> 
> Are they any better than simply uprating the springs and dampers in the 
> standard location (assuming the original spring/damper isn't a combined 
> assembly), and if so, why?

Just means there's a wider range of spring rates and lengths easily 
available and that you can adjust the ride height without faffing about 
as much.

I can understand someone wanting them on a road car that does the odd 
track day, but they're pretty pointless on a standard road car.

Handy if you drop a silly engine into something and want to get the 
corner weights right and / or can't get the right spring rates otherwise.



-- 
Pete M - OMF#9

BMW 325i SE Touring
Range Rover V8 Turbo

"Wait! We can't stop here, this is Bat Country"

On 15 Jul, 11:50, Pete M  wrote:
> Chris Bartram wrote:
> > DanB wrote:
>
> >> Well, you can uprate it without lowering it as well :-)
> > In days gone by a good few people reckoned standard springs and some
> > decent dampers was the way to go on most VAG cars.
>
> > I'll never understand the obsession with lowering: dropping a bit seems
> > reasonable, but I really don't like 'slammed' cars.
>
> Lowering slightly can help a lot...

I'm only really looking into this an opportunity to change for
something a bit lower as I'm mindful of the fact it feels like it
needs new shocks and maybe some bushes on the rear, if nowhere else,
so rude not to look into improving it a bit at this time.

It does seem to bottom out if you're a bit quick over speed humps etc,
hence why I wondered if it was worth getting slightly shorter, firmer
springs as well.

I definitely don't want it slammed to the floor... just think it would
look quite nice if slightly lowered onto a decent set of 18s - but I'm
not going to do this if it'll ruin the ride.

The wondering whether or not to get a set of 18s as well... is pure
vanity. ;-)

--
JackH

"Chris Bartram"  wrote in message 
news:1216121274.26934.0@proxy00.news.clara.net...
> Pete M wrote:
>> Chris Bartram wrote:
>>> DanB wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, you can uprate it without lowering it as well :-)
>>> In days gone by a good few people reckoned standard springs and some 
>>> decent dampers was the way to go on most VAG cars.
>>>
>>> I'll never understand the obsession with lowering: dropping a bit seems 
>>> reasonable, but I really don't like 'slammed' cars.
>>
>> Lowering slightly can help a lot, lowering by a lot pretty much never 
>> helps on a road car.
>>
>> Problem is the Max Power wankers, they think that the lower a car is, the 
>> better it is. Luckily the first pothole they meet at speed soon writes off 
>> that idea...
>>
>
> Or the first speed bump rips out the sump.
>
> While we're on the subject: Coilovers. Whay are they the holy grail?

If you get decent ones you can fine tune the ride to be the way you like, set 
the height, adjust the bump and rebound damping rates, swap the spring rates 
for something just right.

wrote in message 
news:249d12d3-3df8-457a-8e47-ba1f2d4cc31e@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> On 15 Jul, 11:50, Pete M  wrote:
>> Chris Bartram wrote:
>> > DanB wrote:
>>
>> >> Well, you can uprate it without lowering it as well :-)
>> > In days gone by a good few people reckoned standard springs and some
>> > decent dampers was the way to go on most VAG cars.
>>
>> > I'll never understand the obsession with lowering: dropping a bit seems
>> > reasonable, but I really don't like 'slammed' cars.
>>
>> Lowering slightly can help a lot...
>
> I'm only really looking into this an opportunity to change for
> something a bit lower as I'm mindful of the fact it feels like it
> needs new shocks and maybe some bushes on the rear, if nowhere else,
> so rude not to look into improving it a bit at this time.
>
> It does seem to bottom out if you're a bit quick over speed humps etc,
> hence why I wondered if it was worth getting slightly shorter, firmer
> springs as well.
>
> I definitely don't want it slammed to the floor... just think it would
> look quite nice if slightly lowered onto a decent set of 18s - but I'm
> not going to do this if it'll ruin the ride.

Realistically, unless you buy some seriously expensive alloys, the ride 
quality is probably only going to go one way... how much heavier are the 18s 
plus tyres compared to standard fitment?

And will you still see the brakes behind, now looking a bit lost and alone 
behind a big wheel?

If the suspension is set up for a lower profile tyre on a lightweight wheel, 
the ride may be smoother... ;)

> The wondering whether or not to get a set of 18s as well... is pure
> vanity. ;-)



-- 
The DervMan
www.dervman.com

"Douglas Payne"  wrote in message 
news:6e1rvdF4nio8U1@mid.individual.net...
>I chickened out and we had the Audi's new front struts fitted at a local 
>garage while they were doing a wheelbearing for us.  I did the rears the 
>other day as detailed in another post.
>
> Koni FSDs for anyone who's interested.
>
> It has made a real noticeable diference to the feel of the car.
>
> Now all it needs is some rattles sorting and a dirty big 1.8T engine 
> conversion.  (c:

I seem to have missed something. What audi is it? Coupe? Audi 50? Please say 
it's an audi 50 ;).