Hi All,

I tried to help a mate who runs a garage today by pushing the rear
stub axles out through the bearings on a pair of hubs for him using my
10 tonne hydraulic press.

He gave them to me to do because he felt the new hydraulic puller he
recently bought (especially to do a particular customers car, a fairly
new Focus) was just going to rip the wheel studs out.

The bearing in hub one just came to bits at about 10 tonne and I
thought the second one had actually come out cleanly (at 12 tonnes)
but had in fact broken the drum casting (the bearing had broken the
casting, before the axle stub had pushed through the bearing).[1] He
had already applied some heat and left it soaking in Plus Gas
overnight :-(

We did manage to save the customer the cost of one stub axle (80 quid)
and one hub (50 quid) so he felt that was better than nothing.

The point. He gets to service many cars once they have come off their
main dealer warranty period and I have witnessed many instances where
(for example) rear drums are very difficult to remove and when they
are finally removed they often show signs that they have never been
off in their lives?

If they aren't checking the rear brake shoes what else don't they
check?

All the best ..

T i m.

p.s. I swapped the gearbox out on my 1978 Escort based kit car today.
It only took an hour because we were cleaning stuff up as we went.
Those were the days, basic nuts and bolts. ;-)

[1] In hindsight I should have turned a mandrel that would have
supported the casting around the bearing, but I really didn't think
something that is normally fitted by hand pressure would self destruct
when getting it apart!

T i m wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I tried to help a mate who runs a garage today by pushing the rear
> stub axles out through the bearings on a pair of hubs for him using my
> 10 tonne hydraulic press.
>
> He gave them to me to do because he felt the new hydraulic puller he
> recently bought (especially to do a particular customers car, a fairly
> new Focus) was just going to rip the wheel studs out.
>
> The bearing in hub one just came to bits at about 10 tonne and I
> thought the second one had actually come out cleanly (at 12 tonnes)
> but had in fact broken the drum casting (the bearing had broken the
> casting, before the axle stub had pushed through the bearing).[1] He
> had already applied some heat and left it soaking in Plus Gas
> overnight :-(
>
> We did manage to save the customer the cost of one stub axle (80 quid)
> and one hub (50 quid) so he felt that was better than nothing.
>
> The point. He gets to service many cars once they have come off their
> main dealer warranty period and I have witnessed many instances where
> (for example) rear drums are very difficult to remove and when they
> are finally removed they often show signs that they have never been
> off in their lives?
>
> If they aren't checking the rear brake shoes what else don't they
> check?
>
> All the best ..
>
> T i m.
>
> p.s. I swapped the gearbox out on my 1978 Escort based kit car today.
> It only took an hour because we were cleaning stuff up as we went.
> Those were the days, basic nuts and bolts. ;-)
>
> [1] In hindsight I should have turned a mandrel that would have
> supported the casting around the bearing, but I really didn't think
> something that is normally fitted by hand pressure would self destruct
> when getting it apart!

the brake shoe thickness is checked through the inspection aperture.
  why would you need to remove the bearing unless it failed?
  the drum comes off with the stub axle to allow changing the cylinders and 
shoes.

On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 22:17:27 GMT, "Mrcheerful" 
wrote:


>the brake shoe thickness is checked through the inspection aperture.

Ok ..

>  why would you need to remove the bearing unless it failed?

You wouldn't, but you might want to remove the drum to check for wear
on the drum itself, to clean the drum out, check for seized or weeping
cylinder maybe?

>  the drum comes off with the stub axle to allow changing the cylinders and 
>shoes. 

Are you saying that's the correct way to remove the drum for
inspection  on Foci / Focusses, rather than just undoing the central
nut and slipping the drum and bearing off the stub axle? Slipping it
back on and doing the nut back up when done like he did the new one?

All the best ..

T i m

T i m wrote:
> On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 22:17:27 GMT, "Mrcheerful" 
> wrote:
>
>
>> the brake shoe thickness is checked through the inspection aperture.
>
> Ok ..
>
>>  why would you need to remove the bearing unless it failed?
>
> You wouldn't, but you might want to remove the drum to check for wear
> on the drum itself, to clean the drum out, check for seized or weeping
> cylinder maybe?
>
>>  the drum comes off with the stub axle to allow changing the
>> cylinders and shoes.
>
> Are you saying that's the correct way to remove the drum for
> inspection  on Foci / Focusses, rather than just undoing the central
> nut and slipping the drum and bearing off the stub axle? Slipping it
> back on and doing the nut back up when done like he did the new one?
>
> All the best ..
>
> T i m

That is the easiest way, also there is no risk of getting crap in the 
bearing, or damaging the oil seal or needing to renew the nut and grease 
cap.  The drum is easily inspected with the stub axle still in situ. 
Another advantage is that you can use an air wrench to undo the bolts in 
moments rather than prise off the grease cap, unwind the big nut, pull the 
drum, drop the bearing etc.

On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 23:04:28 GMT, "Mrcheerful"  wrote:


>That is the easiest way, also there is no risk of getting crap in the 
>bearing, or damaging the oil seal or needing to renew the nut and grease 
>cap.  The drum is easily inspected with the stub axle still in situ. 
>Another advantage is that you can use an air wrench to undo the bolts in 
>moments rather than prise off the grease cap, unwind the big nut, pull the 
>drum, drop the bearing etc. 
>

It's also the way Haynes tells you to do the Fiesta. 

However, when I once took it to a place called Better Brakes and noticed him
start to undo the hub nut, just out of interest I said ' Oh Haynes says.... '
Well that's when he virtually threw me out the workshop. 

Andy

In message , T i m 
 writes
>On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 22:17:27 GMT, "Mrcheerful" 
>wrote:
>
>
>>  the drum comes off with the stub axle to allow changing the cylinders and
>>shoes.
>
>Are you saying that's the correct way to remove the drum for
>inspection  on Foci / Focusses, rather than just undoing the central
>nut and slipping the drum and bearing off the stub axle?

Yes. I think even the Haynes manual recommends doing it this way.

-- 
Paul Giverin

British Jet Engine Website:-    www.britjet.co.uk

My photos:-  www.pbase.com/vendee

On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 23:04:28 GMT, "Mrcheerful" 
wrote:


>> Are you saying that's the correct way to remove the drum for
>> inspection  on Foci / Focusses, rather than just undoing the central
>> nut and slipping the drum and bearing off the stub axle? Slipping it
>> back on and doing the nut back up when done like he did the new one?
>>
>
>That is the easiest way, also there is no risk of getting crap in the 
>bearing, or damaging the oil seal or needing to renew the nut and grease 
>cap. 

Ok ..

> The drum is easily inspected with the stub axle still in situ. 

Inspected but not replaced though. ;-)

>Another advantage is that you can use an air wrench to undo the bolts in 
>moments rather than prise off the grease cap, unwind the big nut, pull the 
>drum, drop the bearing etc. 

Understood, however this bearing was a one piece (rather than two
bearings I'm more familiar with I mean) affair nearly 2" long and
there is no way the bearing itself is going to drop out of the drum (I
used my press again to put the new one in and it's held secure by a
circlip. You may mean the inner races falling out though (although I
didn't think they could on this particular one).

The outer race on this bearing was shielded and I never saw the
oilseal but would imagine it would be difficult to damage as the
bearing would have everything aligned on the stub axle long before the
seal got near it's running surface (but I get your point, there is no
chance of damaging it if it isn't disturbed).

As for being clumsy ... ;-)

All the best ...

T i m

p.s. I must admit I'm not sure I like the idea of a fabricated stub
axle in the first place?

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 06:24:57 +0100, Paul Giverin 
wrote:

>In message , T i m 
> writes
>>On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 22:17:27 GMT, "Mrcheerful" 
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>  the drum comes off with the stub axle to allow changing the cylinders and
>>>shoes.
>>
>>Are you saying that's the correct way to remove the drum for
>>inspection  on Foci / Focusses, rather than just undoing the central
>>nut and slipping the drum and bearing off the stub axle?
>
>Yes. I think even the Haynes manual recommends doing it this way.

Hmm, I'll have to ask my mate what his Autodata thing suggests when I
drop this hub back in a sec.

All the best ..

T i m

In article ,
   T i m  wrote:
> The point. He gets to service many cars once they have come off their
> main dealer warranty period and I have witnessed many instances where
> (for example) rear drums are very difficult to remove and when they
> are finally removed they often show signs that they have never been
> off in their lives?

> If they aren't checking the rear brake shoes what else don't they
> check?

 If it's a BMW pretty well nothing they can't charge extra for, in my
experience of main dealers. 

 My E39 went through many services and one MOT at the main dealer with an
inefficient handbrake - one wheel had virtually no brake - despite many
requests to sort the poor performance. (Which wasn't essential as it is an
auto - just annoying)

 When it failed an independant MOT due to the handbrake I looked at it
myself. The adjuster was jammed on 'zero' and had to be removed and put in
a vice to free it - it had left the factory like that. The dealer had
'adjusted' the cables to try and 'compensate'. Useless dishonest bastards.

 It's well past the time that something should done about garage
standards. A few hangings might sort things.

-- 
*Husband and cat lost -- reward for cat

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 10:30:29 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
 wrote:

>In article ,
>   T i m  wrote:
>> The point. He gets to service many cars once they have come off their
>> main dealer warranty period and I have witnessed many instances where
>> (for example) rear drums are very difficult to remove and when they
>> are finally removed they often show signs that they have never been
>> off in their lives?
>
>> If they aren't checking the rear brake shoes what else don't they
>> check?
>
> If it's a BMW pretty well nothing they can't charge extra for, in my
>experience of main dealers. 

 :-(
>
> My E39 went through many services and one MOT at the main dealer with an
>inefficient handbrake - one wheel had virtually no brake - despite many
>requests to sort the poor performance. (Which wasn't essential as it is an
>auto - just annoying)
>
> When it failed an independant MOT due to the handbrake I looked at it
>myself. The adjuster was jammed on 'zero' and had to be removed and put in
>a vice to free it - it had left the factory like that. The dealer had
>'adjusted' the cables to try and 'compensate'. Useless dishonest bastards.

And that was really the point of my post Dave. Maybe this Focus with
it's removable stub axles wasn't a good example but I have seem my
(independent) mate removing many many rear drums because of something
similar to your example has happened (the last being a driving
instructor car and the handbrake was too difficult for some of the
girl students to apply / remove for the hill start exercises) where
the rear drums have never been off and in spite of a fully stamped up
(and paid for) dealer service history?

And 'automatic brake adjusters ... '  :-)

IF, peering through an inspection hole is not guaranteed to allow you
to access or address a situation fully then proper 'drum off'
inspections should be done (and my mate does).
>
> It's well past the time that something should done about garage
>standards. A few hangings might sort things.

Agreed!

All the best ..

T i m