Gentlemen,

I need a pair of tyres for my Rover P6 3500 series 1, 185 HR 14, and I have 
hit a problem. I am getting a lot of teeth sucking from tyre centres as to 
whether they can get them, I live in the Bedford area does any one have any 
idea's please.

Martin P

-- 
martin.perman@btopenworld.com

Semper in Excrementem Altitudo Solus Varius

My Photo's :- 
http://internalfire.com/modules.php?set_albumName=campingstoveman&op=modload&name=PubGallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

Also you will find some here http://picasaweb.google.com/campingstoveman

"campingstoveman"  gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying:

> I need a pair of tyres for my Rover P6 3500 series 1, 185 HR 14, and I
> have hit a problem. I am getting a lot of teeth sucking from tyre
> centres as to whether they can get them, I live in the Bedford area does
> any one have any idea's please.

MyTyres have Vredesteins for £60 each.

Otherwise, the main specialists are Vintage Tyre, Beaulieu, or Longstone 
Tyres, Doncaster.

Gentlemen,

Another question please, I am also being asked for another figure between 
185 -- HR 14 ?

What am I missing.

Martin P
"campingstoveman"  wrote in message 
news:Y_udnWhuY8St2oHVnZ2dnUVZ8vqdnZ2d@bt.com...
> Gentlemen,
>
> I need a pair of tyres for my Rover P6 3500 series 1, 185 HR 14, and I 
> have hit a problem. I am getting a lot of teeth sucking from tyre centres 
> as to whether they can get them, I live in the Bedford area does any one 
> have any idea's please.
>
> Martin P
>
> -- 
> martin.perman@btopenworld.com
>
> Semper in Excrementem Altitudo Solus Varius
>
> My Photo's :- 
> http://internalfire.com/modules.php?set_albumName=campingstoveman&op=modload&name=PubGallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
>
> Also you will find some here http://picasaweb.google.com/campingstoveman
>

"campingstoveman"  wrote in message 
news:BdCdnRYafui80IHVnZ2dnUVZ8rednZ2d@bt.com...
> Gentlemen,
>
> Another question please, I am also being asked for another figure 
> between 185 -- HR 14 ?
>
> What am I missing.
>

Nothing, but try putting 80 in the box (it /should/ work without 
though...), what it is asking for is the profile of the tyre, the 
standard profile (side wall to tread wide ratio) tyres are 80.

campingstoveman wrote:
> Gentlemen,
> 
> Another question please, I am also being asked for another figure between 
> 185 -- HR 14 ?
> 
> What am I missing.
>


Here's a PDF chart so you can check out the alternate sizes that you can 
fit.

http://www.simextyres.co.nz/downloads/Car%20tyre%20conversion%20chart.PDF

from the chart - Your 185x14   which has a diameter of 650 mm   - you 
could easily fit 195/75x14   on your rims without problems, which maybe 
cheaper as well.

I use 175/75x14 on the MG, as the 165x14 (std), besides being readily 
available are cheaper.

r



> Martin P
> "campingstoveman"  wrote in message 
> news:Y_udnWhuY8St2oHVnZ2dnUVZ8vqdnZ2d@bt.com...
> 
>>Gentlemen,
>>
>>I need a pair of tyres for my Rover P6 3500 series 1, 185 HR 14, and I 
>>have hit a problem. I am getting a lot of teeth sucking from tyre centres 
>>as to whether they can get them, I live in the Bedford area does any one 
>>have any idea's please.
>>
>>Martin P
>>
>>-- 
>>martin.perman@btopenworld.com
>>
>>Semper in Excrementem Altitudo Solus Varius
>>
>>My Photo's :- 
>>http://internalfire.com/modules.php?set_albumName=campingstoveman&op=modload&name=PubGallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
>>
>>Also you will find some here http://picasaweb.google.com/campingstoveman
>>
> 
> 
>

"Rob." <mesa@mine.com.> wrote in message 
news:481c564e$1_5@news.peopletelecom.com.au...
<snip>
>
> from the chart - Your 185x14   which has a diameter of 650 mm   - 
> you could easily fit 195/75x14   on your rims without problems, 
> which maybe cheaper as well.

But they might not fit the car, fitting the rim is not the same as 
fitting the car, the above would be fitting a wider tyre that whilst 
safely fitting the rim could possibly foul front *or* rear suspension 
(or even body, on extreme suspension movement, or when on full 
steering lock).

campingstoveman wrote:
> Gentlemen,
> 
> I need a pair of tyres for my Rover P6 3500 series 1, 185 HR 14, and I have 
> hit a problem. I am getting a lot of teeth sucking from tyre centres as to 
> whether they can get them, I live in the Bedford area does any one have any 
> idea's please.
>

Will T rated (118mile/h) do, instead of H (130mile/h)?

If so, several places sell the Kumho 758 in that size, e.g.

www.tyretraders.com  (about £33 plus fitting etc)

If you're searching, remember that the profile is 80, so the usual 
designation is now 185/80R14

I've fitted tyres with a slightly lower speed rating than the car's 
theoretical maximum to my MkVI, and took the precaution of getting the 
insurers to confirm they were happy about it.


-- 
Kevin Poole
****Use current date to reply (e.g. apr2008@mainbeam.co.uk)****

:Jerry: wrote:
> "Rob." <mesa@mine.com.> wrote in message 
> news:481c564e$1_5@news.peopletelecom.com.au...
> <snip>
> 
>>from the chart - Your 185x14   which has a diameter of 650 mm   - 
>>you could easily fit 195/75x14   on your rims without problems, 
>>which maybe cheaper as well.
> 
> 
> But they might not fit the car, fitting the rim is not the same as 
> fitting the car, the above would be fitting a wider tyre that whilst 
> safely fitting the rim could possibly foul front *or* rear suspension 
> (or even body, on extreme suspension movement, or when on full 
> steering lock). 
> 
> 

Thats why there are also rim sizes on the chart.

"Rob." <mesa@mine.com.> wrote in message 
news:481c60ec_3@news.peopletelecom.com.au...
> :Jerry: wrote:
>> "Rob." <mesa@mine.com.> wrote in message 
>> news:481c564e$1_5@news.peopletelecom.com.au...
>> <snip>
>>
>>>from the chart - Your 185x14   which has a diameter of 650 mm   - 
>>>you could easily fit 195/75x14   on your rims without problems, 
>>>which maybe cheaper as well.
>>
>>
>> But they might not fit the car, fitting the rim is not the same as 
>> fitting the car, the above would be fitting a wider tyre that 
>> whilst safely fitting the rim could possibly foul front *or* rear 
>> suspension (or even body, on extreme suspension movement, or when 
>> on full steering lock).
>
> Thats why there are also rim sizes on the chart.

Whhhoooossssshhhh :~(

Rim size has f*ck all to do with it, it's the width of the tyre and 
the clearance allowed in the design of the car that matters, whist a 
given tyre can safely fit a rim it doesn't always follow that the 
given (tyre) width can safely be fitted to the car.

Thanks Gentlemen,

I am not bothered about my 125 mph speed as I have no intention of taking 
the old girl up that fast any way, I will ring my tyre places Tuesday with a 
new spec.

Martin P
"Kevin Poole"  wrote in message 
news:7PednYiW8LzUwoHVnZ2dnUVZ8qWhnZ2d@pipex.net...
>
>
> campingstoveman wrote:
>> Gentlemen,
>>
>> I need a pair of tyres for my Rover P6 3500 series 1, 185 HR 14, and I 
>> have hit a problem. I am getting a lot of teeth sucking from tyre centres 
>> as to whether they can get them, I live in the Bedford area does any one 
>> have any idea's please.
>>
>
> Will T rated (118mile/h) do, instead of H (130mile/h)?
>
> If so, several places sell the Kumho 758 in that size, e.g.
>
> www.tyretraders.com  (about £33 plus fitting etc)
>
> If you're searching, remember that the profile is 80, so the usual 
> designation is now 185/80R14
>
> I've fitted tyres with a slightly lower speed rating than the car's 
> theoretical maximum to my MkVI, and took the precaution of getting the 
> insurers to confirm they were happy about it.
>
>
> -- 
> Kevin Poole
> ****Use current date to reply (e.g. apr2008@mainbeam.co.uk)****

In article ,
   campingstoveman  wrote:
> I need a pair of tyres for my Rover P6 3500 series 1, 185 HR 14, and I
> have hit a problem. I am getting a lot of teeth sucking from tyre
> centres as to whether they can get them, I live in the Bedford area
> does any one have any idea's please.

I have one Pirelli Cinturato here for a P6 3500 - 185 HR 14 90. About half
worn. Been stored in the cool and dark (cellar) so looks to be good. You
can have it for free - but collection only.

-- 
*The closest I ever got to a 4.0 in school was my blood alcohol content*

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
   campingstoveman  wrote:
> Another question please, I am also being asked for another figure
> between 185 -- HR 14 ?

> What am I missing.

Think that is 90.

-- 
*Some days you're the dog, some days the hydrant.

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)"  gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying:

>> Another question please, I am also being asked for another figure
>> between 185 -- HR 14 ?
>> 
>> What am I missing.

> Think that is 90.

"Full profile" is usually 80%.

"campingstoveman"  wrote in message 
news:QuednblzGICU7IHVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@bt.com...
> Thanks Gentlemen,
>
> I am not bothered about my 125 mph speed as I have no intention of 
> taking the old girl up that fast any way, I will ring my tyre places 
> Tuesday with a new spec.
>

It's not what you're bothered about but what the MOT and insurance 
inspectors are.

campingstoveman wrote:
> Gentlemen,
> 
> I need a pair of tyres for my Rover P6 3500 series 1, 185 HR 14, and I have 
> hit a problem. I am getting a lot of teeth sucking from tyre centres as to 
> whether they can get them, I live in the Bedford area does any one have any 
> idea's please.
> 
> Martin P
> 
I got some 185/80R13 tyres for my PI here:
http://www.jettyres.co.uk/index.php

I have just done a search on your size on their tyre finder and they 
have some Dunlops on special offer.  Ignore the 8-ply sizes; they are 
for vans.  But there are some car sizes there.  If in doubt, you can 
always give them a ring - they do answer the phone, and they do know 
what they are talking about.

I arranged with a local tyre fitter to fit my purchase and Jet Tyres 
were quite happy to ship them there and bill my credit card. It saved 
having to be in to receive them, then load them up into the car and 
drive them down.

Jim

In article ,
   campingstoveman  wrote:
> I am not bothered about my 125 mph speed as I have no intention of
> taking the old girl up that fast any way, I will ring my tyre places
> Tuesday with a new spec.

A word of caution.

My 3500 MkI was fitted with new Pirelli Cinturatos when I bought it at 3
years old - but SR rather than HR which was a totally different design.
Chunks came off the rear tyres. I took it to the Pirelli depot which was
at the time in Mitcham and they said the SR tyres simply weren't up to
handling the torque. They gave me a good deal on HR ones which lasted very
well.

Of course things may be different with modern tyres - but I think you
still have to fit replacements as good or better than the original maker's
spec.

-- 
*Letting a cat out of the bag is easier than putting it back in *

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

campingstoveman  wrote:

> Gentlemen,
> 
> I need a pair of tyres for my Rover P6 3500 series 1, 185 HR 14, and I have
> hit a problem. I am getting a lot of teeth sucking from tyre centres as to
> whether they can get them, I live in the Bedford area does any one have any
> idea's please.

eTyres do them:

http://www.etyres.co.uk/car-tyres-uk/searchresults?tyreWidthId=4&tyrePro
fileId=1&tyreWheelId=3&tyreSpeedId=2&tyreReinforced=F&tyre6Ply=F&tyre8Pl
y=F&tyre4X4=F

They're 'economy' or 'mid range' - so it's a bit of a gamble as to what
you'll get. With any luck you'll get something like 'Ling Long Rain
Heros' or similar ;-)


-- 
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE - COSOC KOTL
BOTAFOT #87 - BOTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

SteveH wrote:
> campingstoveman  wrote:
> 
>> Gentlemen,
>>
>> I need a pair of tyres for my Rover P6 3500 series 1, 185 HR 14, and I have
>> hit a problem. I am getting a lot of teeth sucking from tyre centres as to
>> whether they can get them, I live in the Bedford area does any one have any
>> idea's please.
> 
> eTyres do them:
> 
> http://www.etyres.co.uk/car-tyres-uk/searchresults?tyreWidthId=4&tyrePro
> fileId=1&tyreWheelId=3&tyreSpeedId=2&tyreReinforced=F&tyre6Ply=F&tyre8Pl
> y=F&tyre4X4=F
> 
> They're 'economy' or 'mid range' - so it's a bit of a gamble as to what
> you'll get. With any luck you'll get something like 'Ling Long Rain
> Heros' or similar ;-)
> 
> 
Ling Longs probably grip better than early 70's Dunlops...

-- 
Pete M - OMF#9
Range Rover V8 Turbo
Range Rover 4.6 HSE
"Professional Petrolhead"

On Sun, 04 May 2008 01:23:44 +0100, Pete M
 wrote:

>> They're 'economy' or 'mid range' - so it's a bit of a gamble as to what
>> you'll get. With any luck you'll get something like 'Ling Long Rain
>> Heros' or similar ;-)
>> 
>Ling Longs probably grip better than early 70's Dunlops...

Remember those 'Groundhog' crossplies?

Still, they were better than my usual Bald Eagles back then.

Gentlemen,

Been to Shuttleworth classic car show just down the road from me today, saw 
a couple of 3500 P6's with 19580R14's fitted and the owners reported no 
problems so I know where to go now, thanks for help.

Martin P
"campingstoveman"  wrote in message 
news:Y_udnWhuY8St2oHVnZ2dnUVZ8vqdnZ2d@bt.com...
> Gentlemen,
>
> I need a pair of tyres for my Rover P6 3500 series 1, 185 HR 14, and I 
> have hit a problem. I am getting a lot of teeth sucking from tyre centres 
> as to whether they can get them, I live in the Bedford area does any one 
> have any idea's please.
>
> Martin P
>
> -- 
> martin.perman@btopenworld.com
>
> Semper in Excrementem Altitudo Solus Varius
>
> My Photo's :- 
> http://internalfire.com/modules.php?set_albumName=campingstoveman&op=modload&name=PubGallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
>
> Also you will find some here http://picasaweb.google.com/campingstoveman
>

":Jerry:" <INVALID@INVALID.INVALID> wrote in message
news:fvhu08$agu$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> >
> > I am not bothered about my 125 mph speed as I have no intention of
> > taking the old girl up that fast any way, I will ring my tyre places
> > Tuesday with a new spec.
> >
>
> It's not what you're bothered about but what the MOT and insurance
> inspectors are.

MOT only checks that all tyres on an axle are the same size, and the
tread/tyre condition. No speed rating check.
Insurance could well be invalidated, but whatever tyre you fit it is vitally
important that the load rating is suitable; in particular think about weight
transfer under heavy braking - the front tyres are effectively taking the
weight of the whole vehicle. Also, fitting a tyre of a different
specification can fall foul of construction and use regs as the car was
type-approved for the UK market with a certain spec.
Badger.

Badger wrote:
> Also, fitting a tyre of a different
> specification can fall foul of construction and use regs as the car was
> type-approved for the UK market with a certain spec.
> Badger.
> 

Does this mean that everybody who has replaced the steel wheels and 80 
profile tyres with alloys and 70 profile tyres could fall foul of a 
Jobsworth quoting the Construction and Use regs?

Jim

Jim Warren  gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying:

>> Also, fitting a tyre of a different
>> specification can fall foul of construction and use regs as the car was
>> type-approved for the UK market with a certain spec. Badger.

> Does this mean that everybody who has replaced the steel wheels and 80
> profile tyres with alloys and 70 profile tyres could fall foul of a
> Jobsworth quoting the Construction and Use regs?

No, not necessarily. He said "can", not "will".

OTOH, if you take high-spec tyres off a quick, heavy car and put 
something that's absolutely not up to the job on, then - yes, probably.

Speed and load ratings are likely to be the key.

Gentlemen,

Does anybody in the Bedfordshire, Cambridgeshire, Herts. or Bucks area have 
a wind back tool for the rear brakes on a Rover P6 I can borrow as I wish to 
make one.

Thanks,

Martin P
"campingstoveman"  wrote in message 
news:0fydnZBeIoIRLYDVnZ2dnUVZ8uCdnZ2d@bt.com...
> Gentlemen,
>
> Been to Shuttleworth classic car show just down the road from me today, 
> saw a couple of 3500 P6's with 19580R14's fitted and the owners reported 
> no problems so I know where to go now, thanks for help.
>
> Martin P
> "campingstoveman"  wrote in message 
> news:Y_udnWhuY8St2oHVnZ2dnUVZ8vqdnZ2d@bt.com...
>> Gentlemen,
>>
>> I need a pair of tyres for my Rover P6 3500 series 1, 185 HR 14, and I 
>> have hit a problem. I am getting a lot of teeth sucking from tyre centres 
>> as to whether they can get them, I live in the Bedford area does any one 
>> have any idea's please.
>>
>> Martin P
>>
>> -- 
>> martin.perman@btopenworld.com
>>
>> Semper in Excrementem Altitudo Solus Varius
>>
>> My Photo's :- 
>> http://internalfire.com/modules.php?set_albumName=campingstoveman&op=modload&name=PubGallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
>>
>> Also you will find some here http://picasaweb.google.com/campingstoveman
>>
>
>

In article ,
   campingstoveman  wrote:
> Does anybody in the Bedfordshire, Cambridgeshire, Herts. or Bucks area
> have a wind back tool for the rear brakes on a Rover P6 I can borrow as
> I wish to make one.

To be perfectly honest I had one and it was a waste of time. Easier to do
with your fingers. Use builder's gloves. If you can't turn it with your
fingers it's seized so sort that out first.

To make one which actually worked easily would need a conventional ratchet
mechanism.

-- 
*Life is hard; then you nap

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave,

Thanks for the info, taking both of the rears off anyway to repair leak so 
will do it on bench. Just thinking of future, as to making one I have the 
necessary machines so it would be no problem.

Martin P
"Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in message 
news:4fa0e99253dave@davenoise.co.uk...
> In article ,
>   campingstoveman  wrote:
>> Does anybody in the Bedfordshire, Cambridgeshire, Herts. or Bucks area
>> have a wind back tool for the rear brakes on a Rover P6 I can borrow as
>> I wish to make one.
>
> To be perfectly honest I had one and it was a waste of time. Easier to do
> with your fingers. Use builder's gloves. If you can't turn it with your
> fingers it's seized so sort that out first.
>
> To make one which actually worked easily would need a conventional ratchet
> mechanism.
>
> -- 
> *Life is hard; then you nap
>
>    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
>                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , campingstoveman 
says...
> Dave,
> 
> Thanks for the info, taking both of the rears off anyway to repair leak so 
> will do it on bench. Just thinking of future, as to making one I have the 
> necessary machines so it would be no problem.
> 
I used a G clamp.

-- 
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't 
looking good either. - Scott Adams

In article ,
   Conor  wrote:
> > Thanks for the info, taking both of the rears off anyway to repair
> > leak so will do it on bench. Just thinking of future, as to making
> > one I have the necessary machines so it would be no problem.
> > 
> I used a G clamp.

As I said it should turn with the fingers. Not easily - but far less
hassle than trying to get any tool in there. If it doesn't it's partially
seized, and accounts for the reputation of these handbrakes not working
well. When in good condition they are the best handbrake I've had on any
car.

-- 
*The beatings will continue until morale improves *

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 17 May, 16:31, Conor  wrote:

> I used a G clamp.

On a P6?  Isn't this a design where the handbrake mech means you can't
simply push them back, but have to screw them in

Andy Dingley  wrote:

> On 17 May, 16:31, Conor  wrote:
> 
> > I used a G clamp.
> 
> On a P6?  Isn't this a design where the handbrake mech means you can't
> simply push them back, but have to screw them in

S'wot I thought, too.

I have the special tool for that, cost me around a tenner and is worth
it's weight in gold.
-- 
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE - COSOC KOTL
BOTAFOT #87 - BOTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

In article <1ih3ql8.dznwep1szel7rN%steve@italiancar.co.uk>, SteveH 
says...
> Andy Dingley  wrote:
> 
> > On 17 May, 16:31, Conor  wrote:
> > 
> > > I used a G clamp.
> > 
> > On a P6?  Isn't this a design where the handbrake mech means you can't
> > simply push them back, but have to screw them in
> 

> 
FFS...It does screw them in.  You do it so the screwthreaded bit of the 
g-clamp is acting on the bit you need to rotate and the solid bit is on 
the other side of the caliper the side the piston is on. When the g 
clamp is tight enough and you continue to tighten it bites into the 
piston and rotates that as well.

-- 
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't 
looking good either. - Scott Adams

In article
,
   Andy Dingley  wrote:
> On a P6?  Isn't this a design where the handbrake mech means you can't
> simply push them back, but have to screw them in

Yes. The piston which operates the pads is mechanical and linked to the
internal hydraulic piston and handbrake mechanism. When the pads are worn
out it requires several turns to re-set it and I don't see how a g-clamp
would be much help.

-- 
*The first rule of holes:  If you are in one, stop digging!

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article <1ih3ql8.dznwep1szel7rN%steve@italiancar.co.uk>,
   SteveH  wrote:
> Andy Dingley  wrote:

> > On 17 May, 16:31, Conor  wrote:
> > 
> > > I used a G clamp.
> > 
> > On a P6?  Isn't this a design where the handbrake mech means you can't
> > simply push them back, but have to screw them in

> S'wot I thought, too.

> I have the special tool for that, cost me around a tenner and is worth
> it's weight in gold.

On a P6? The calipers are so awkward to get at you spend more time trying
to keep it in place than anything else. The same tool works ok on a Ford
Mk IV which has the same units but outboard.

-- 
*Don't use no double negatives *

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article
> ,
>    Andy Dingley  wrote:
>> On a P6?  Isn't this a design where the handbrake mech means you can't
>> simply push them back, but have to screw them in
> 
> Yes. The piston which operates the pads is mechanical and linked to the
> internal hydraulic piston and handbrake mechanism. When the pads are worn
> out it requires several turns to re-set it and I don't see how a g-clamp
> would be much help.
> 

I've tried using a G-clamp on them, it doesn't work. You need the proper 
  piston winding tool - they're not very expensive now and very useful.

I spent about 3 hours trying to wind in the rear pistons on a new shape 
Alfa GTV a couple of years ago, tried every trick and nothing would 
shift 'em. Went out and bought a Sykes Pickavant piston windy tool and 
it took me less than 5 minutes to sort it. Took 10 mins to do the 
caliper on the other side (from wheel removal to replacement) - and that 
one was a lot less free. Brilliant things. You can also buy a little 
square multi-sided tool for doing the odd one, costs about £5 from most 
semi-decent motor factors. If you're doing a lot of them, buy a proper 
job - looks like a G-clamp, but works a lot better.

If I'd known about the proper tool when I had my P6, I'd have probably 
had a decent handbrake.

-- 
Pete M - OMF#9
Range Rover V8 Turbo
Range Rover 4.6 HSE
"Professional Petrolhead"

In article <g0o3sg$4si$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
   Pete M  wrote:
> I spent about 3 hours trying to wind in the rear pistons on a new shape 
> Alfa GTV a couple of years ago, tried every trick and nothing would 
> shift 'em. Went out and bought a Sykes Pickavant piston windy tool and 
> it took me less than 5 minutes to sort it. Took 10 mins to do the 
> caliper on the other side (from wheel removal to replacement) - and that 
> one was a lot less free. Brilliant things. You can also buy a little 
> square multi-sided tool for doing the odd one, costs about £5 from most 
> semi-decent motor factors. If you're doing a lot of them, buy a proper 
> job - looks like a G-clamp, but works a lot better.

> If I'd known about the proper tool when I had my P6, I'd have probably 
> had a decent handbrake.

Are you saying the tool you have works on the same principle as the proper
P6 one? I'm saying that was a poor design.

However the proper tool doesn't effect the handbrake on the P6 - you have
to wind back the piston to fit new pads by whatever method. It's seizure
of the mechanism (and wrong cable adjustment) that stops it working
properly. The levers on the calipers *must* come back to their backstops
with the handbrake off for the self adjustment to work. And in perfect
condition this allows more handbrake travel than some MOT testers allow.
So people tighten the cable and f**k up the handbrake. I had to lay the
law down on more than one occasion at MOT time...

-- 
*Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 17 May, 23:17, "Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote:

>  I don't see how a g-clamp would be much help.

So it's just Doctor Drivel talking about hacksaws again.

In article
,
   Andy Dingley  wrote:
> On 17 May, 23:17, "Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote:

> >  I don't see how a g-clamp would be much help.

> So it's just Doctor Drivel talking about hacksaws again.

Ouch. You know how to wound. Conor's not in the same class as dribble -
fortunately.

But having read his explanation of how he used it I'm still not convinced.

-- 
*Speak softly and carry a cellular phone *

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

> As I said it should turn with the fingers. Not easily - but far less
> hassle than trying to get any tool in there. If it doesn't it's partially
> seized, and accounts for the reputation of these handbrakes not working
> well. When in good condition they are the best handbrake I've had on any
> car.

I did mine a few months back with advice from this group and it wasn't 
as difficult as I'd expected. I screwed them out a bit, cleaned them off 
with a cloth and then screwed them right back in with my fingers. Where 
they were a bit stiff to begin turning, I found it possible to push the 
top with a screwdriver - it didn't need enough pressure to cause any damage.

In article ,
   Willy Eckerslyke  wrote:
> I did mine a few months back with advice from this group and it wasn't
> as difficult as I'd expected. I screwed them out a bit, cleaned them off
> with a cloth and then screwed them right back in with my fingers. Where
> they were a bit stiff to begin turning, I found it possible to push the
> top with a screwdriver - it didn't need enough pressure to cause any
> damage.

Yup. A pair of those thin but strong building gloves can save the pain. ;-)

Do you find the handbrake now extremely effective? Long travel and spongey
feeling but very powerful? Usually impresses the MOT guys on the rolling
road.

-- 
*Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder *                            

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 17 May, 23:09, Conor  wrote:
> In article <1ih3ql8.dznwep1szel7rN%st...@italiancar.co.uk>, SteveH
> says...
>
> > Andy Dingley  wrote:
>
> > > On 17 May, 16:31, Conor  wrote:
>
> > > > I used a G clamp.
>
> > > On a P6?  Isn't this a design where the handbrake mech means you can't
> > > simply push them back, but have to screw them in
>
> FFS...It does screw them in.  You do it so the screwthreaded bit of the
> g-clamp is acting on the bit you need to rotate and the solid bit is on
> the other side of the caliper the side the piston is on. When the g
> clamp is tight enough and you continue to tighten it bites into the
> piston and rotates that as well.
>
> --
> Conor
>
> I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't
> looking good either. - Scott Adams

G Clamp? Is that an asian version of a G cramp?

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article ,
>    Willy Eckerslyke  wrote:
>> I did mine a few months back with advice from this group and it wasn't
>> as difficult as I'd expected. I screwed them out a bit, cleaned them off
>> with a cloth and then screwed them right back in with my fingers. Where
>> they were a bit stiff to begin turning, I found it possible to push the
>> top with a screwdriver - it didn't need enough pressure to cause any
>> damage.
> 
> Yup. A pair of those thin but strong building gloves can save the pain. ;-)

Not if you have fingers as thick as mine!

> Do you find the handbrake now extremely effective? Long travel and spongey
> feeling but very powerful?

Definitely. But then it was pretty good before too.

> Usually impresses the MOT guys on the rolling
> road.

This one said there was too much travel and made me adjust the handbrake 
cable to take it up. The travel had increased a fair bit, which seemed 
odd after fitting new pads - perhaps because whoever fitted the last lot 
hadn't bothered to wind the pistons back fully.
Adjusting the cable wasn't a job I'd like to do again in a hurry as it 
has to be done from below the handbrake lever and above the propshaft. 
And you can't just tighten a nut, you have to unclip the cable first, 
then tighten it just enough to allow you to get it back on again 
afterwards. All by feel as there's not enough room to see what you're 
doing and your eyes are too full of dust by then anyway.

"Conor"  wrote in message 
news:698c3oF317qksU3@mid.individual.net...
> In article , 
> campingstoveman
> says...
>> Dave,
>>
>> Thanks for the info, taking both of the rears off anyway to repair 
>> leak so
>> will do it on bench. Just thinking of future, as to making one I 
>> have the
>> necessary machines so it would be no problem.
>>
> I used a G clamp.
>

Conor, you're a total DH, you obviously know NOTHING about P6 rear 
callipers!

"Conor"  wrote in message 
news:6993ckF31dclqU1@mid.individual.net...
> In article <1ih3ql8.dznwep1szel7rN%steve@italiancar.co.uk>, SteveH
> says...
>> Andy Dingley  wrote:
>>
>> > On 17 May, 16:31, Conor  wrote:
>> >
>> > > I used a G clamp.
>> >
>> > On a P6?  Isn't this a design where the handbrake mech means you 
>> > can't
>> > simply push them back, but have to screw them in
>>
>
>>
> FFS...It does screw them in.  You do it so the screwthreaded bit of 
> the
> g-clamp is acting on the bit you need to rotate and the solid bit is 
> on
> the other side of the caliper the side the piston is on. When the g
> clamp is tight enough and you continue to tighten it bites into the
> piston and rotates that as well.
>

Fuck off Conor, you're either a troll or an out-and out-bodging tosser 
who knows fuck all about this, what you suggest is the quickest way of 
wrecking the calliper! BTW I started working on these rear brakes when 
they had only just gone out of production - ie. we saw a lot of them 
on a daily bases.

"Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in message 
news:4fa15e0a60dave@davenoise.co.uk...
> In article
> ,
>   Andy Dingley  wrote:
>> On 17 May, 23:17, "Dave Plowman (News)"  
>> wrote:
>
>> >  I don't see how a g-clamp would be much help.
>
>> So it's just Doctor Drivel talking about hacksaws again.
>
> Ouch. You know how to wound. Conor's not in the same class as 
> dribble -
> fortunately.
>
> But having read his explanation of how he used it I'm still not 
> convinced.
>

Sorry Dave, but after reading Conor's explanation it's clear to me 
that they could be brothers, in fact they could be identical twins...

In article ,
   Willy Eckerslyke  wrote:
> > Usually impresses the MOT guys on the rolling
> > road.

> This one said there was too much travel and made me adjust the handbrake 
> cable to take it up.

 That's common. Some want it to be hard on (ie you can't pull it up
further) by 4 clicks or whatever and one in correct adjustment won't be.
With enough force you can almost pull it up to the stop.

> The travel had increased a fair bit, which seemed 
> odd after fitting new pads - perhaps because whoever fitted the last lot 
> hadn't bothered to wind the pistons back fully.
> Adjusting the cable wasn't a job I'd like to do again in a hurry as it 
> has to be done from below the handbrake lever and above the propshaft. 
> And you can't just tighten a nut, you have to unclip the cable first, 
> then tighten it just enough to allow you to get it back on again 
> afterwards. All by feel as there's not enough room to see what you're 
> doing and your eyes are too full of dust by then anyway.

Indeed. What you must make sure is that the operating levers on the
calipers are well and truly on their backstops with the handbrake off -
not that it works by a random number of clicks. Otherwise the self
adjustment won't work properly. If the MOT bloke objects, show him the
workshop manual.

-- 
*If at first you don't succeed, redefine success.  

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article <g10n66$jl6$3@registered.motzarella.org>,
   :Jerry: <INVALID@INVALID.INVALID> wrote:

> "Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in message 
> news:4fa15e0a60dave@davenoise.co.uk...
> > In article
> > ,
> >   Andy Dingley  wrote:
> >> On 17 May, 23:17, "Dave Plowman (News)"  
> >> wrote:
> >
> >> >  I don't see how a g-clamp would be much help.
> >
> >> So it's just Doctor Drivel talking about hacksaws again.
> >
> > Ouch. You know how to wound. Conor's not in the same class as 
> > dribble -
> > fortunately.
> >
> > But having read his explanation of how he used it I'm still not 
> > convinced.
> >

> Sorry Dave, but after reading Conor's explanation it's clear to me 
> that they could be brothers, in fact they could be identical twins... 

I dunno - it's just conceivable that a G clamp with enough friction
between its 'pad' and the piston could turn the piston. But I'm sceptical.

-- 
*A backward poet writes inverse.*

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article ,
>    Willy Eckerslyke  wrote:
>>> Usually impresses the MOT guys on the rolling
>>> road.
> 
>> This one said there was too much travel and made me adjust the handbrake 
>> cable to take it up.
> 
>  That's common. Some want it to be hard on (ie you can't pull it up
> further) by 4 clicks or whatever and one in correct adjustment won't be.

Quite. And if I'd adjusted it as tight as that I'd never have got the 
cable back on again.

> With enough force you can almost pull it up to the stop.

Not sure about that, I don't want to risk breaking the cable and having 
to get back underneath again.

> Indeed. What you must make sure is that the operating levers on the
> calipers are well and truly on their backstops with the handbrake off -
> not that it works by a random number of clicks. Otherwise the self
> adjustment won't work properly. If the MOT bloke objects, show him the
> workshop manual.

He was happy enough once I'd reduced the travel a bit and it's been 
behaving correctly for the few months since the test. He only retested 
it by driving across his forecourt, so I reckon he'd already found they 
were reading high enough anyway.

"Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in message 
news:4fa2dee0c6dave@davenoise.co.uk...
> In article <g10n66$jl6$3@registered.motzarella.org>,
>   :Jerry: <INVALID@INVALID.INVALID> wrote:
>
>> "Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in message
>> news:4fa15e0a60dave@davenoise.co.uk...
>> > In article
>> > ,
>> >   Andy Dingley  wrote:
>> >> On 17 May, 23:17, "Dave Plowman (News)" 
>> >> wrote:
>> >
>> >> >  I don't see how a g-clamp would be much help.
>> >
>> >> So it's just Doctor Drivel talking about hacksaws again.
>> >
>> > Ouch. You know how to wound. Conor's not in the same class as
>> > dribble -
>> > fortunately.
>> >
>> > But having read his explanation of how he used it I'm still not
>> > convinced.
>> >
>
>> Sorry Dave, but after reading Conor's explanation it's clear to me
>> that they could be brothers, in fact they could be identical 
>> twins...
>
> I dunno - it's just conceivable that a G clamp with enough friction
> between its 'pad' and the piston could turn the piston. But I'm 
> sceptical.
>

But a G clamp will exert a pushing force to that is likely to damage 
the ratchet mechanism as well as rotating the 'outer' piston, all the 
proper Rover tool does (and all that is required) is a turning motion 
[1] - what Conor is suggesting is like suggesting one can torque a 
bolt down using a sledge-hammer, sure the force applied force the two 
components together (akin to riveting...) but in doing so one is sure 
to damage the fixing. What I'm saying is, the G clamp will exert far 
more of a pushing force that it will a rotational force due to the 
pitch of the respective threads (pitch of G clamp thread vs. the 
thread of the adjuster)

Anyway, the only way one could get a G clamp onto a P6 rear calliper 
is to remove the unit first, rather suggests that Conor hasn't even 
seen the P6 rear brake assembly let alone worked on it...

[1] even more modern designs don't like a pushing force applied, the 
proper tools are designed to exert a turning force only, the means to 
apply a pushing force is greatly limited by the design so that it 
basically (unless miss used) keeps the tools spigots engaged with the 
'outer' piston - nothing more - otherwise the tool will lock up to 
normal hand use.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <g0o3sg$4si$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
>    Pete M  wrote:
>> I spent about 3 hours trying to wind in the rear pistons on a new shape 
>> Alfa GTV a couple of years ago, tried every trick and nothing would 
>> shift 'em. Went out and bought a Sykes Pickavant piston windy tool and 
>> it took me less than 5 minutes to sort it. Took 10 mins to do the 
>> caliper on the other side (from wheel removal to replacement) - and that 
>> one was a lot less free. Brilliant things. You can also buy a little 
>> square multi-sided tool for doing the odd one, costs about £5 from most 
>> semi-decent motor factors. If you're doing a lot of them, buy a proper 
>> job - looks like a G-clamp, but works a lot better.
> 
>> If I'd known about the proper tool when I had my P6, I'd have probably 
>> had a decent handbrake.
> 
> Are you saying the tool you have works on the same principle as the proper
> P6 one? I'm saying that was a poor design.

Not the original P6 tool, the one I used was a Sykes Pickavant one which 
I think was for the Ford Granada Mk3 rear brakes. Brilliant it was.
> 
> However the proper tool doesn't effect the handbrake on the P6 - you have
> to wind back the piston to fit new pads by whatever method. It's seizure
> of the mechanism (and wrong cable adjustment) that stops it working
> properly. The levers on the calipers *must* come back to their backstops
> with the handbrake off for the self adjustment to work. And in perfect
> condition this allows more handbrake travel than some MOT testers allow.
> So people tighten the cable and f**k up the handbrake. I had to lay the
> law down on more than one occasion at MOT time...

Yup, I remember that...

-- 
Pete M - OMF#9
Range Rover V8 Turbo
Range Rover 4.6 HSE
"Professional Petrolhead"

In article <g10qvr$3e1$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
   :Jerry: <INVALID@INVALID.INVALID> wrote:
> > I dunno - it's just conceivable that a G clamp with enough friction
> > between its 'pad' and the piston could turn the piston. But I'm 
> > sceptical.
> >

> But a G clamp will exert a pushing force to that is likely to damage 
> the ratchet mechanism as well as rotating the 'outer' piston,
I very much doubt that - the piston has to withstand the full force of the
hydraulics. Unless you got it off centre and bent the steel lug that
prevents it from turning in operation.

> all the 
> proper Rover tool does (and all that is required) is a turning motion 
> [1] - what Conor is suggesting is like suggesting one can torque a 
> bolt down using a sledge-hammer, sure the force applied force the two 
> components together (akin to riveting...) but in doing so one is sure 
> to damage the fixing. What I'm saying is, the G clamp will exert far 
> more of a pushing force that it will a rotational force due to the 
> pitch of the respective threads (pitch of G clamp thread vs. the 
> thread of the adjuster)

I know - which is why I'm sceptical. But without trying it...

> Anyway, the only way one could get a G clamp onto a P6 rear calliper 
> is to remove the unit first, rather suggests that Conor hasn't even 
> seen the P6 rear brake assembly let alone worked on it...

I'm not that sure - with both pads removed it might swing far enough away
from the disc to get some G-clamps in. But again I'm sceptical... 

> [1] even more modern designs don't like a pushing force applied, the 
> proper tools are designed to exert a turning force only, the means to 
> apply a pushing force is greatly limited by the design so that it 
> basically (unless miss used) keeps the tools spigots engaged with the 
> 'outer' piston - nothing more - otherwise the tool will lock up to 
> normal hand use. 

All I do know is the pukka Girling tool was a pain with the P6 - but
easier to use on outboard ones.

-- 
*Red meat is not bad for you. Fuzzy green meat is bad for you.  

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article <g10tpd$ctt$2@registered.motzarella.org>,
   Pete M  wrote:
>  Are you saying the tool you have works on the same principle as the proper
> > P6 one? I'm saying that was a poor design.

> Not the original P6 tool, the one I used was a Sykes Pickavant one which 
> I think was for the Ford Granada Mk3 rear brakes. Brilliant it was.

The Rover one was in fact the Girling tool - and could well have been made
by S-P. It's possible there was a better designed one but I've not seen
it. The snag with the Girling one was it would fall off the piston all too
readily - even although it was meant to lock in place. Which meant you had
to hold it in place with one hand while trying to operate it with the
other. Fine on the bench but not so with the restricted access on the P6 -
and I always loosened the rear crossmember to drop the final drive unit a
bit.

-- 
*A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well*

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in message 
news:4fa2f0c161dave@davenoise.co.uk...
<snip>
>
> The Rover one was in fact the Girling tool - and could well have 
> been made
> by S-P. It's possible there was a better designed one but I've not 
> seen
> it. The snag with the Girling one was it would fall off the piston 
> all too
> readily - even although it was meant to lock in place. Which meant 
> you had
> to hold it in place with one hand while trying to operate it with 
> the
> other. Fine on the bench but not so with the restricted access on 
> the P6 -
> and I always loosened the rear crossmember to drop the final drive 
> unit a
> bit.
>

'We' always disconnected the read drive shafts and dropped the discs 
out as well as the pads that were being changed (of course in some 
cases the discs were in need of changed also...), this of course was 
done on a workshop ramp and with air ratchets etc. available so 
working conditions were a lot easier - it's fortunate that I've never 
had to grovel under any P6, I do have sympathy for those who have had 
to though!

"Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in message 
news:4fa2f057abdave@davenoise.co.uk...
> In article <g10qvr$3e1$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
>   :Jerry: <INVALID@INVALID.INVALID> wrote:
>> > I dunno - it's just conceivable that a G clamp with enough 
>> > friction
>> > between its 'pad' and the piston could turn the piston. But I'm
>> > sceptical.
>> >
>
>> But a G clamp will exert a pushing force to that is likely to 
>> damage
>> the ratchet mechanism as well as rotating the 'outer' piston,
> I very much doubt that - the piston has to withstand the full force 
> of the
> hydraulics. Unless you got it off centre and bent the steel lug that
> prevents it from turning in operation.

But remember that you are also turning the piston, I've heard of 
crunched and bent ratchets (that is, on a previously working calliper 
that then stopped after a pad change), also the braking force on rear 
brakes are not great - which is another reason why rear cylinders / 
callipers have more of a tendency to seize.

>
>> all the
>> proper Rover tool does (and all that is required) is a turning 
>> motion
>> [1] - what Conor is suggesting is like suggesting one can torque a
>> bolt down using a sledge-hammer, sure the force applied force the 
>> two
>> components together (akin to riveting...) but in doing so one is 
>> sure
>> to damage the fixing. What I'm saying is, the G clamp will exert 
>> far
>> more of a pushing force that it will a rotational force due to the
>> pitch of the respective threads (pitch of G clamp thread vs. the
>> thread of the adjuster)
>
> I know - which is why I'm sceptical. But without trying it...
>
>> Anyway, the only way one could get a G clamp onto a P6 rear 
>> calliper
>> is to remove the unit first, rather suggests that Conor hasn't even
>> seen the P6 rear brake assembly let alone worked on it...
>
> I'm not that sure - with both pads removed it might swing far enough 
> away
> from the disc to get some G-clamps in. But again I'm sceptical...
>

From what I remember, no there won't be, even with the disc removed, 
at minimum it would need either a very small G clamp or the calliper 
un-shipped from it's carrier on the FD unit.

In article <g116nv$kfd$2@registered.motzarella.org>,
   :Jerry: <INVALID@INVALID.INVALID> wrote:
> also the braking force on rear brakes are not great - which is another
> reason why rear cylinders / callipers have more of a tendency to seize.

It's a lot more than you'd get out of a small G-clamp.

-- 
*If I throw a stick, will you leave?

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in message 
news:4fa3000910dave@davenoise.co.uk...
> In article <g116nv$kfd$2@registered.motzarella.org>,
>   :Jerry: <INVALID@INVALID.INVALID> wrote:
>> also the braking force on rear brakes are not great - which is 
>> another
>> reason why rear cylinders / callipers have more of a tendency to 
>> seize.
>
> It's a lot more than you'd get out of a small G-clamp.
>

Yes but it's in the other direction, the hydraulic action works *with* 
the ratchet, the G-clamp is working *against* the ratchet (see 
below) - at best the ratchet has been designed to resist the force 
applied by the parking brake or a warped disc, a G-clamp can easily 
exceed either...


Hydraulic force
              Ratchet 'thread'
====>>>l/l/l/l/l/l/l/l/l/l/l piston direction
                   _/ ratchet
                   X Fixed point

G-clamp force
             Ratchet 'thread'
<<<====l/l/l/l/l/l/l/l/l/l/l piston direction
                   _/ ratchet
                   X Fixed point

:Jerry: <INVALID@INVALID.INVALID> wrote:

> Fuck off Conor, you're either a troll or an out-and out-bodging tosser
> who knows fuck all about this

'Prace bets now!'

;-)
-- 
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
www.italiancar.co.uk - Ducati 750SS - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200
Alfa 75 TSpark - Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE

SteveH  wrote:

> :Jerry: <INVALID@INVALID.INVALID> wrote:
> 
> > Fuck off Conor, you're either a troll or an out-and out-bodging tosser
> > who knows fuck all about this
> 
> 'Prace bets now!'

£5 on "bodger". Oh hang on, this is one of those "each way" situations
isn't it? Probably "both".

In article <g10n5t$jl6$2@registered.motzarella.org>, :Jerry: says...
> 
> "Conor"  wrote in message 
> news:6993ckF31dclqU1@mid.individual.net...
> > In article <1ih3ql8.dznwep1szel7rN%steve@italiancar.co.uk>, SteveH
> > says...
> >> Andy Dingley  wrote:
> >>
> >> > On 17 May, 16:31, Conor  wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > I used a G clamp.
> >> >
> >> > On a P6?  Isn't this a design where the handbrake mech means you 
> >> > can't
> >> > simply push them back, but have to screw them in
> >>
> >
> >>
> > FFS...It does screw them in.  You do it so the screwthreaded bit of 
> > the
> > g-clamp is acting on the bit you need to rotate and the solid bit is 
> > on
> > the other side of the caliper the side the piston is on. When the g
> > clamp is tight enough and you continue to tighten it bites into the
> > piston and rotates that as well.
> >
> 
> Fuck off Conor, you're either a troll or an out-and out-bodging tosser 
> who knows fuck all about this, what you suggest is the quickest way of 
> wrecking the calliper! BTW I started working on these rear brakes when 
> they had only just gone out of production - ie. we saw a lot of them 
> on a daily bases. 
> 
I can only go on my experience on the 2000TC I owned. And it works just 
as well on the Rover 600's as well.

How does it wreck the caliper, dumbass? You can't apply enough pressure 
to fuck the thread.


-- 
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't 
looking good either. - Scott Adams

In article <1ihcqr7.b7yyka1aeicbtN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>, Steve Firth 
says...
> SteveH  wrote:
> 
> > :Jerry: <INVALID@INVALID.INVALID> wrote:
> > 
> > > Fuck off Conor, you're either a troll or an out-and out-bodging tosser
> > > who knows fuck all about this
> > 
> > 'Prace bets now!'
> 
> £5 on "bodger". Oh hang on, this is one of those "each way" situations
> isn't it? Probably "both".

I didn't have the tool, I needed to wind in the caliper, so I tried it 
and it worked. Simple as. After all, there was nothing to lose by 
trying.

I take it you, Steve and Jerry are the kind of fuckwits who don't know 
the meaning of the word "ingenuity" and that if it says you must use 
Tool BL1234, you can't do it if you don't have it.

Narrow minded people with a complete inability to think laterally.

-- 
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't 
looking good either. - Scott Adams

Conor  wrote:

> In article <1ihcqr7.b7yyka1aeicbtN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>, Steve Firth
> says...
> > SteveH  wrote:
> > 
> > > :Jerry: <INVALID@INVALID.INVALID> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Fuck off Conor, you're either a troll or an out-and out-bodging tosser
> > > > who knows fuck all about this
> > > 
> > > 'Prace bets now!'
> > 
> > £5 on "bodger". Oh hang on, this is one of those "each way" situations
> > isn't it? Probably "both".
> 
> I didn't have the tool, I needed to wind in the caliper, so I tried it
> and it worked. Simple as. After all, there was nothing to lose by 
> trying.
> 
> I take it you, Steve and Jerry are the kind of fuckwits who don't know
> the meaning of the word "ingenuity" and that if it says you must use 
> Tool BL1234, you can't do it if you don't have it.
> 
> Narrow minded people with a complete inability to think laterally.

Erm, but a G-Clamp can, and quite often would, damage the face of the
piston as it would be able to rotate on the face of it without actually
turning the piston - because they don't have the 'pins' to lock onto the
piston as proper tools do.

There's ingenuity and there's bodging.

Using a G-Clamp on a piston that needs winding back, rather than just
pushing back falls into the latter category.
-- 
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
www.italiancar.co.uk - Ducati 750SS - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200
Alfa 75 TSpark - Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE

"Conor"  wrote in message 
news:69lqq6F3352t5U1@mid.individual.net...
<snip>
>
> How does it wreck the caliper, dumbass? You can't apply enough 
> pressure
> to fuck the thread.
>

You really are a clueless retard, not only have you admitted to not 
knowing how these types of callipers work but also that you have not 
read this thread either...

"SteveH"  wrote in message 
news:1ihcvps.yr14zhkmetrrN%steve@italiancar.co.uk...
<snip "Conor's" ignorant clap-trap>

>
> Erm, but a G-Clamp can, and quite often would, damage the face of 
> the
> piston as it would be able to rotate on the face of it without 
> actually
> turning the piston - because they don't have the 'pins' to lock onto 
> the
> piston as proper tools do.

Actually the average G-clamp is designed *not* to rotate on the 
'work-piece', so the only force most G-clamps will apply is a pushing 
force and not the (in this case) rotational force required to wind the 
'outer' piston back in.

>
> There's ingenuity and there's bodging.
>

Exactly.

"Conor"  wrote in message 
news:69lquiF3352t5U2@mid.individual.net...
<snip>

> Narrow minded people with a complete inability to think laterally.

Not at all, but even if we were, we can still do the most important 
thing - understand who something works and thus the problem - unlike 
you Conor...

:Jerry: <INVALID@INVALID.INVALID> wrote:

> "SteveH"  wrote in message 
> news:1ihcvps.yr14zhkmetrrN%steve@italiancar.co.uk...
> <snip "Conor's" ignorant clap-trap>
> 
> >
> > Erm, but a G-Clamp can, and quite often would, damage the face of 
> > the
> > piston as it would be able to rotate on the face of it without 
> > actually
> > turning the piston - because they don't have the 'pins' to lock onto
> > the
> > piston as proper tools do.
> 
> Actually the average G-clamp is designed *not* to rotate on the 
> 'work-piece', so the only force most G-clamps will apply is a pushing
> force and not the (in this case) rotational force required to wind the
> 'outer' piston back in.

I've always found that they 'stick' a bit and will rotate.

Mind you, in this case, you're relying on the rotation of the clamp to
wind the piston back in.

So, if it doesn't rotate, you're going to damage the threat / ratchet on
the caliper, and if it does rotate, you'll be grinding away the face of
the piston.

> > There's ingenuity and there's bodging.
> >
> 
> Exactly. 


-- 
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
www.italiancar.co.uk - Ducati 750SS - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200
Alfa 75 TSpark - Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE

Gentlemen,

As the instigator of this thread I am disappointed that you have to have a 
slanging match that borders on total ignorance from the both of you, please 
do us all the favour of either going somewhere else to carry out your petty 
arguments or just shut up.

Martin P

":Jerry:" <INVALID@INVALID.INVALID> wrote in message 
news:g10n5f$jl6$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>
> "Conor"  wrote in message 
> news:698c3oF317qksU3@mid.individual.net...
>> In article , campingstoveman
>> says...
>>> Dave,
>>>
>>> Thanks for the info, taking both of the rears off anyway to repair leak 
>>> so
>>> will do it on bench. Just thinking of future, as to making one I have 
>>> the
>>> necessary machines so it would be no problem.
>>>
>> I used a G clamp.
>>
>
> Conor, you're a total DH, you obviously know NOTHING about P6 rear 
> callipers!
>

In article <1ihcvps.yr14zhkmetrrN%steve@italiancar.co.uk>, SteveH 
says...

> Erm, but a G-Clamp can, and quite often would, damage the face of the
> piston as it would be able to rotate on the face of it without actually
> turning the piston - because they don't have the 'pins' to lock onto the
> piston as proper tools do.
> 
The cone shaped part on the end of the clamp didn't rotate..


-- 
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't 
looking good either. - Scott Adams

In article <g14gun$q2t$3@registered.motzarella.org>, :Jerry: says...
> 
> "Conor"  wrote in message 
> news:69lquiF3352t5U2@mid.individual.net...
> <snip>
> 
> > Narrow minded people with a complete inability to think laterally.
> 
> Not at all, but even if we were, we can still do the most important 
> thing - understand who something works and thus the problem - unlike 
> you Conor... 
> 
I have an extremely high mechanical aptitude.


-- 
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't 
looking good either. - Scott Adams

In article <g14gum$q2t$1@registered.motzarella.org>, :Jerry: says...

> You really are a clueless retard, not only have you admitted to not 
> knowing how these types of callipers work but also that you have not 
> read this thread either... 
> 
So how do calipers that need to be wound back work then? Please explain 
to this qualified mechanic with main dealer experience.



-- 
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't 
looking good either. - Scott Adams

"campingstoveman"  gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying:

> Gentlemen,
> 
> As the instigator of this thread I am disappointed that you have to have
> a slanging match that borders on total ignorance from the both of you,
> please do us all the favour of either going somewhere else to carry out
> your petty arguments or just shut up.

NAHAY?

In article ,
   Conor  wrote:
> > You really are a clueless retard, not only have you admitted to not 
> > knowing how these types of callipers work but also that you have not 
> > read this thread either... 
> > 
> So how do calipers that need to be wound back work then? Please explain 
> to this qualified mechanic with main dealer experience.

On the P6, the piston you see isn't a hydraulic piston. It is mechanically
linked to the internal hydraulic piston via a self adjusting mechanism
also operated by the handbrake.

-- 
*When cheese gets it's picture taken, what does it say?

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Conor wrote:

>>>>>> I used a G clamp.

> I can only go on my experience on the 2000TC I owned. And it works just 
> as well on the Rover 600's as well.

Just a thought, but you do realise we're talking about the _rear_ 
brakes, don't you?

In article , Willy Eckerslyke 
says...
> Conor wrote:
> 
> >>>>>> I used a G clamp.
> 
> > I can only go on my experience on the 2000TC I owned. And it works just 
> > as well on the Rover 600's as well.
> 
> Just a thought, but you do realise we're talking about the _rear_ 
> brakes, don't you?
> 
Yes. - the inboard fucking things on the P6. 

My Rover 600 was a 2L with discs all round. So was my 420. In fact, the 
Capri is the only car I've had without rear discs since before the turn 
of the century.


-- 
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't 
looking good either. - Scott Adams

"Conor"  wrote in message 
news:69n8j4F3433s8U4@mid.individual.net...
> In article <1ihcvps.yr14zhkmetrrN%steve@italiancar.co.uk>, SteveH
> says...
>
>> Erm, but a G-Clamp can, and quite often would, damage the face of 
>> the
>> piston as it would be able to rotate on the face of it without 
>> actually
>> turning the piston - because they don't have the 'pins' to lock 
>> onto the
>> piston as proper tools do.
>>
> The cone shaped part on the end of the clamp didn't rotate..
>

Exactly you twat head, that is why a G-clamp is more likely to scrap 
the calliper than wind the piston back!

"Conor"  wrote in message 
news:69n8l0F3433s8U5@mid.individual.net...
<snip>>>
> I have an extremely high mechanical aptitude.
>

In *your* opinion of course, just like most out-and-out bodgers do...

"Conor"  wrote in message 
news:69n8msF3433s8U6@mid.individual.net...
> In article <g14gum$q2t$1@registered.motzarella.org>, :Jerry: says...
>
>> You really are a clueless retard, not only have you admitted to not
>> knowing how these types of callipers work but also that you have 
>> not
>> read this thread either...
>>
> So how do calipers that need to be wound back work then? Please 
> explain
> to this qualified mechanic with main dealer experience.
>

I already have, read the thread!

"Conor"  wrote in message 
news:69ndjiF33t57kU1@mid.individual.net...
> In article , Willy Eckerslyke
> says...
>> Conor wrote:
>>
>> >>>>>> I used a G clamp.
>>
>> > I can only go on my experience on the 2000TC I owned. And it 
>> > works just
>> > as well on the Rover 600's as well.
>>
>> Just a thought, but you do realise we're talking about the _rear_
>> brakes, don't you?
>>
> Yes. - the inboard fucking things on the P6.

Which you would not be able to get a G-clamp on to, unless you unship 
the unit from the rear axle... FFS there is not more clearance that 
the thickness of two brake pads, even when the rear discs are removed 
the amount of room is not much more, considering that the working end 
of the G-clamp (the part with the threaded rod) needs to face towards 
the diff unit and not act against the calliper outer casing. IMO it's 
clear that you have never seen the underside of the P6, never mind 
worked on them.

Conor  wrote:

> In article <g14gum$q2t$1@registered.motzarella.org>, :Jerry: says...
> 
> > You really are a clueless retard, not only have you admitted to not
> > knowing how these types of callipers work but also that you have not
> > read this thread either... 
> > 
> So how do calipers that need to be wound back work then? Please explain
> to this qualified mechanic with main dealer experience.

Wooo!

'cos main dealer mechanics are all highly trained professionals and not
in any way bodging grease monkeys.....
-- 
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
www.italiancar.co.uk - Ducati 750SS - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200
Alfa 75 TSpark - Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE

"SteveH"  wrote in message 
news:1ihe2pk.4lyvnjgr3l22N%steve@italiancar.co.uk...
> Conor  wrote:
>
>> In article <g14gum$q2t$1@registered.motzarella.org>, :Jerry: 
>> says...
>>
>> > You really are a clueless retard, not only have you admitted to 
>> > not
>> > knowing how these types of callipers work but also that you have 
>> > not
>> > read this thread either...
>> >
>> So how do calipers that need to be wound back work then? Please 
>> explain
>> to this qualified mechanic with main dealer experience.
>
> Wooo!
>
> 'cos main dealer mechanics are all highly trained professionals and 
> not
> in any way bodging grease monkeys.....

...and who said anything about main dealers, I've never worked in a 
main dealer workshop in my life - as will be the case with most 
mechanics, it's nothing to do with were one works but the ability to 
(sometimes stop to) understand how something works, and thus 
understand the problem, and thus understand how to fix/work-around it 
and not just use brute force and gross ignorance - especially when 
it's someone else's property!

In article <g162k6$uod$1@registered.motzarella.org>, :Jerry: says...

> > The cone shaped part on the end of the clamp didn't rotate..
> >
> 
> Exactly you twat head, that is why a G-clamp is more likely to scrap 
> the calliper than wind the piston back! 
> 
I meant in relation to the piston you dumb cunt. 

Fuck, you're a friggin retard.


-- 
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't 
looking good either. - Scott Adams

In article <g162k7$uod$2@registered.motzarella.org>, :Jerry: says...
> 
> "Conor"  wrote in message 
> news:69n8l0F3433s8U5@mid.individual.net...
> <snip>>>
> > I have an extremely high mechanical aptitude.
> >
> 
> In *your* opinion of course, just like most out-and-out bodgers do... 
> 
According to all the aptitude tests I've ever done and the 
qualifications I have...


-- 
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't 
looking good either. - Scott Adams

In article <1ihe2pk.4lyvnjgr3l22N%steve@italiancar.co.uk>, SteveH 
says...
> 
> Wooo!
> 
> 'cos main dealer mechanics are all highly trained professionals and not
> in any way bodging grease monkeys.....
> 
I was qualified when it actually meant a toss and before the ability to 
plug in a computer to tell you what was wrong was introduced.


-- 
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't 
looking good either. - Scott Adams

"Conor"  wrote in message 
news:69normF3379mkU1@mid.individual.net...


>
> Fuck, you're a friggin retard.
>

Stop talking about yourself Conor. A G-clamp applies pressure, it 
might apply a turning force if the G-clamp is also fucked, but that is 
irrelevant as the last thing these callipers need is pressure applied 
to the adjuster (outer) piston in the wrong direction - as anyone who 
understands how these callipers work will understand...

"Conor"  wrote in message 
news:69nos0F3379mkU2@mid.individual.net...
> In article <g162k7$uod$2@registered.motzarella.org>, :Jerry: says...
>>
>> "Conor"  wrote in message
>> news:69n8l0F3433s8U5@mid.individual.net...
>> <snip>>>
>> > I have an extremely high mechanical aptitude.
>> >
>>
>> In *your* opinion of course, just like most out-and-out bodgers 
>> do...
>>
> According to all the aptitude tests I've ever done and the
> qualifications I have...
>

Oh yes, those "Put the square block into the square hole and the 
circular block into the circular hole" aptitude tests whilst the NVQs 
just check that you can do nuts and bolts up, no understanding as to 
how things work...

"Conor"  wrote in message 
news:69not8F3379mkU3@mid.individual.net...
> In article <1ihe2pk.4lyvnjgr3l22N%steve@italiancar.co.uk>, SteveH
> says...
>>
>> Wooo!
>>
>> 'cos main dealer mechanics are all highly trained professionals and 
>> not
>> in any way bodging grease monkeys.....
>>
> I was qualified when it actually meant a toss and before the ability 
> to
> plug in a computer to tell you what was wrong was introduced.
>

So how come you don't understand how these callipers work then, tell 
us what the set text-book was for C&G levels 1 to 4 then, or have you 
hit your head and forgotten all you would have learnt back then?...