I am thinking of buying second hand 4x4 however I want to aim for up to 7
seats. So far, I only know of the following 4x4s that can seat up to 7. If
anyone knows of any more models, please feel free to point out any more 4x4s
that can seat up to 7.

The following 4x4s can seat up to 7 are:

Land Rover Discovery

Mercedes ML

Mercedes GL

Nissan Terrano

Nissan Pathfinder

Toyota LandCruiser

If anyone spots any mistakes with any of the above, please feel free to
correct me and if anyone knows of any more, please could you tell me what
else are there?

Many thanks.

Jack  wrote:

> I am thinking of buying second hand 4x4 however I want to aim for up to 7
> seats. So far, I only know of the following 4x4s that can seat up to 7. If
> anyone knows of any more models, please feel free to point out any more 4x4s
> that can seat up to 7.
> 
> The following 4x4s can seat up to 7 are:
> 
> Land Rover Discovery
> 
> Mercedes ML
> 
> Mercedes GL
> 
> Nissan Terrano
> 
> Nissan Pathfinder
> 
> Toyota LandCruiser
> 
> If anyone spots any mistakes with any of the above, please feel free to
> correct me and if anyone knows of any more, please could you tell me what
> else are there?

Ford Expedition, Ford Explorer (after 2002, very few in the UK), Nissan
Elgrand, Mitsubishi Delica, Toyota Previa.

BTW, the Pathfinder is overloaded with three passengers and a couple of
suitcases, so it's not such a great choice.

I've got an Isuzu Bighorn (Trooper) 3.1TD auto. It has seven forward facing
seats and an engine that will pull a house down. Huge truck at sensible
running costs (27+mpg daily use).

Much more reliable than anything from the Landrover stable - and parts
available from Isuzu and Vauxhall (Monterey)


"Jack"  wrote in message
news:v5mdnaXrH5X-jBXanZ2dnUVZ8qydnZ2d@bt.com...
> I am thinking of buying second hand 4x4 however I want to aim for up to 7
> seats. So far, I only know of the following 4x4s that can seat up to 7. If
> anyone knows of any more models, please feel free to point out any more
4x4s
> that can seat up to 7.
>
> The following 4x4s can seat up to 7 are:
>
> Land Rover Discovery
>
> Mercedes ML
>
> Mercedes GL
>
> Nissan Terrano
>
> Nissan Pathfinder
>
> Toyota LandCruiser
>
> If anyone spots any mistakes with any of the above, please feel free to
> correct me and if anyone knows of any more, please could you tell me what
> else are there?
>
> Many thanks.
>
>
>

%steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote in news:1iakyxs.18pw9d31970mekN%%
steve%@malloc.co.uk:

> Mitsubishi Delica

The Delica is the MPV equivalent of the Pajero. Most LWB Pajeros have 7 
seats but the Delica has 8 or 9.

IIRC, the Mazda Bongo / Ford Freda has 7 seats and (in the auto-free-top 
version) a double bed "upstairs").

-- 
Geoff

Geoff Lane <geoff@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote in news:1iakyxs.18pw9d31970mekN%%
> steve%@malloc.co.uk:
> 
> > Mitsubishi Delica
> 
> The Delica is the MPV equivalent of the Pajero. Most LWB Pajeros have 7
> seats but the Delica has 8 or 9.

Indeed, but that means it has seven seats, doesn't it?

> IIRC, the Mazda Bongo / Ford Freda has 7 seats and (in the auto-free-top
> version) a double bed "upstairs").

Have to be careful that it's a 4x4 though, and the same goes for the
Elgrand.

%steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote in news:1iall9i.16flz5w1ur0hloN%%
steve%@malloc.co.uk:

>> The Delica is the MPV equivalent of the Pajero. Most LWB Pajeros have 7
>> seats but the Delica has 8 or 9.
> 
> Indeed, but that means it has seven seats, doesn't it?

Indeed! but the Delica having 8 or 9 means you get the option of seating 7 
people while still having a reasonably sized "boot". OTOH, most 7-seat 4x4s 
don't give you a lot of space for shopping etc. with all 7 seats in use.

IIRC the LWB Nissan Patrol also offers 7 seats.

> 
>> IIRC, the Mazda Bongo / Ford Freda has 7 seats and (in the auto-free-top
>> version) a double bed "upstairs".
> 
> Have to be careful that it's a 4x4 though, and the same goes for the
> Elgrand.

I suspect this also goes for the Toyota Previa/Estima.

On the subject of MPVs that have 4x4 versions, IIRC there are 4x4 versions 
of the Ford Galaxy / Seat Alhambra / VW Sharan.

-- 
Geoff

Geoff Lane <geoff@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> 
> On the subject of MPVs that have 4x4 versions, IIRC there are 4x4 versions
> of the Ford Galaxy / Seat Alhambra / VW Sharan.

Not of the Alhambra AFAIR. I've seen 4x4 versions of the Sharan (badged
4-Motion) they are very popular as minbuses at ski resorts in Austria
and Switzerland.

%steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote in
news:1ialp3x.3evtbrhkr2suN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk: 

>> On the subject of MPVs that have 4x4 versions, IIRC there are 4x4
>> versions of the Ford Galaxy / Seat Alhambra / VW Sharan.
> 
> Not of the Alhambra AFAIR. I've seen 4x4 versions of the Sharan
> (badged 4-Motion) they are very popular as minbuses at ski resorts in
> Austria and Switzerland.

Oops! Perhaps not in UK, but 4x4 Alhambras are available in other European 
countries (including Austria and Switzerland). I knew about the Galaxy 4x4 
and that Sharan and Alhambra are basically the same car, so did a quick 
'net search to check that some references to 4x4 Sharans and Alhambras came 
back. http://www.blueboxrent.com/Seat-Alhambra-4x4-TDi.36.1.html was the 
first to come back from repeating the search for "Alhambra 4x4".

-- 
Geoff

Geoff Lane <geoff@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote in
> news:1ialp3x.3evtbrhkr2suN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk: 
> 
> >> On the subject of MPVs that have 4x4 versions, IIRC there are 4x4
> >> versions of the Ford Galaxy / Seat Alhambra / VW Sharan.
> > 
> > Not of the Alhambra AFAIR. I've seen 4x4 versions of the Sharan
> > (badged 4-Motion) they are very popular as minbuses at ski resorts in
> > Austria and Switzerland.
> 
> Oops! Perhaps not in UK, but 4x4 Alhambras are available in other European
> countries (including Austria and Switzerland).

Oh righty ho, never seen them over there. And when I looked for a 4x4
Alhambra/Galaxy a couple of years ago both Ford and Seat (UK) dealers
told me no such thing existed. That's one reason I've stuck with
Exploders, and been hacked off that Ford don't import the current US
model which has Zafira-style seven seat accomodation.

Steve Firth (%steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth)) gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying:

>> >> On the subject of MPVs that have 4x4 versions, IIRC there are 4x4
>> >> versions of the Ford Galaxy / Seat Alhambra / VW Sharan.

>> > Not of the Alhambra AFAIR. I've seen 4x4 versions of the Sharan
>> > (badged 4-Motion) they are very popular as minbuses at ski resorts in
>> > Austria and Switzerland.

>> Oops! Perhaps not in UK, but 4x4 Alhambras are available in other
>> European countries (including Austria and Switzerland).

> Oh righty ho, never seen them over there. And when I looked for a 4x4
> Alhambra/Galaxy a couple of years ago both Ford and Seat (UK) dealers
> told me no such thing existed.

Did VW import the 4x4? "Doesn't exist" from a UK dealer just means 
"doesn't exist here". Since all three are built in the same factory and 
only differ very slightly in detail spec, I'd be surprised if all three 
weren't 4x4 for some market somewhere.

Jack  wibbled
> I am thinking of buying second hand 4x4 however I want to aim for up
> to 7 seats. So far, I only know of the following 4x4s that can seat
> up to 7. If anyone knows of any more models, please feel free to
> point out any more 4x4s that can seat up to 7.

A lot depends upon what you actually want the 4x4 for.  If it's to carry 7 
in comfort and with luggage then it narrows it down a lot.  If it's to 
normally carry four/five with an occasional couple extra then almost 
anything will suit.  If you want to take a full complement of passengers 
off-road then it narrows again.

Useage means a lot more than simply the number of available seats.
-- 
Dog Poop

Away from home.

Jack  wibbled
> I am thinking of buying second hand 4x4 however I want to aim for up
> to 7 seats. So far, I only know of the following 4x4s that can seat
> up to 7. If anyone knows of any more models, please feel free to
> point out any more 4x4s that can seat up to 7.

>>>>A lot depends upon what you actually want the 4x4 for.  If it's to carry
7
in comfort and with luggage then it narrows it down a lot.  If it's to
normally carry four/five with an occasional couple extra then almost
anything will suit.  If you want to take a full complement of passengers
off-road then it narrows again.

>>>>Useage means a lot more than simply the number of available seats.

Yes, of course, it all depends on what I want to use a 4x4 for but it do not
matter much anyway, there's a limited number of 4x4s capable of seating up
to 7 and I now found out that there are only roughly 10 of them so far. I
don't have much of a choice but to pick one anyway.

Well, like you said, "almost anything will suit" as I am a single parent
with two kids and need it mainly for general everyday use, with the two
seats folded down or removed. And I have a close friend who is a single
mother with 3 kids, so if I want to invite her and her kids with us on a
outing, then that's where the extra 2 seats come in.

Jack ("Jack" ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying:

> Yes, of course, it all depends on what I want to use a 4x4 for but it do
> not matter much anyway, there's a limited number of 4x4s capable of
> seating up to 7 and I now found out that there are only roughly 10 of
> them so far. I don't have much of a choice but to pick one anyway.
> 
> Well, like you said, "almost anything will suit" as I am a single parent
> with two kids and need it mainly for general everyday use, with the two
> seats folded down or removed. And I have a close friend who is a single
> mother with 3 kids, so if I want to invite her and her kids with us on a
> outing, then that's where the extra 2 seats come in.

OK, but you're still missing a bit of the point, I think.

Do you _need_ 4x4? If so, what do you need that for? Just for occasional 
on-road extra grip? Or for off-road use?

If you _don't_ need off-road ability, then you'd find life a LOT easier 
opening your choices out to include people carriers, some of would have 
awd, especially if you're happy to consider a Jap-spec import - but do 
you even need that?

If we go back to your original list, there's absolutely no indication of 
your other, probably more important, buying criteria - budget.

Even the newest, tidiest, most specced-up Terrano wouldn't trouble a five 
figure ceiling - and oldies would start at a couple of grand or less. 
Likewise "Land Rover Discovery" covers everything from a brand new Disco 
3 to a shed of a G-reg 200TDi - but I doubt you'd find any Merc GL for 
less than about £40k.

Jack wrote:
> Jack  wibbled
>> I am thinking of buying second hand 4x4 however I want to aim for up
>> to 7 seats. So far, I only know of the following 4x4s that can seat
>> up to 7. If anyone knows of any more models, please feel free to
>> point out any more 4x4s that can seat up to 7.
> 
>>>>> A lot depends upon what you actually want the 4x4 for.  If it's to carry
> 7
> in comfort and with luggage then it narrows it down a lot.  If it's to
> normally carry four/five with an occasional couple extra then almost
> anything will suit.  If you want to take a full complement of passengers
> off-road then it narrows again.
> 
>>>>> Useage means a lot more than simply the number of available seats.
> 
> Yes, of course, it all depends on what I want to use a 4x4 for but it do not
> matter much anyway, there's a limited number of 4x4s capable of seating up
> to 7 and I now found out that there are only roughly 10 of them so far. I
> don't have much of a choice but to pick one anyway.
> 
> Well, like you said, "almost anything will suit" as I am a single parent
> with two kids and need it mainly for general everyday use, with the two
> seats folded down or removed. And I have a close friend who is a single
> mother with 3 kids, so if I want to invite her and her kids with us on a
> outing, then that's where the extra 2 seats come in.
> 
> 
"Only" 10?

"Jack"  wrote in message 
news:v5mdnaXrH5X-jBXanZ2dnUVZ8qydnZ2d@bt.com...
>I am thinking of buying second hand 4x4 however I want to aim for up to 7
> seats. So far, I only know of the following 4x4s that can seat up to 7. If
> anyone knows of any more models, please feel free to point out any more 
> 4x4s
> that can seat up to 7.
>
> The following 4x4s can seat up to 7 are:
>
> Land Rover Discovery
>
> Mercedes ML
>
> Mercedes GL
>
> Nissan Terrano
>
> Nissan Pathfinder
>
> Toyota LandCruiser
>
> If anyone spots any mistakes with any of the above, please feel free to
> correct me and if anyone knows of any more, please could you tell me what
> else are there?
>
> Many thanks.
>
>
Add in to the equation the Audi Q7 Quattro,Audi 100 Avant Quattro, Volvo C70 
Volvo XC90, Volvo 850 T5R , Subaru B9 Tribeca

Derek
Discovery 200Tdi 'Kato'
Discovery 300TDi 'Miles'

>>>>Yes, of course, it all depends on what I want to use a 4x4 for but it do
not matter much anyway, there's a limited number of 4x4s capable of seating
up to 7 and I now found out that there are only roughly 10 of them so far. I
don't have much of a choice but to pick one anyway.

>>"Only" 10?

I said "roughly"

After checking for more 4x4s capable of up to 7 seats from some people who
posted here and from more dealerships, I found out that now there are:

Land Rover Discovery (Not all models)

Mercedes ML (Not all models)

Mercedes GL

Nissan Pathfinder

Nissan Patrol

Nissan Terrano

Toyoah LandCruiser

Isuzu Trooper (Not all models)

Mitsibushi Shogun

So far I managed to find out that there are nine 4x4s capable of seating up
to 7. Well, seem close enough, but I need to keep on researching to find out
if there are any more.

>>>>Yes, of course, it all depends on what I want to use a 4x4 for but it do
not matter much anyway, there's a limited number of 4x4s capable of seating
up to 7 and I now found out that there are only roughly 10 of them so far. I
don't have much of a choice but to pick one anyway.

>>>>Well, like you said, "almost anything will suit" as I am a single parent
with two kids and need it mainly for general everyday use, with the two
seats folded down or removed. And I have a close friend who is a single
mother with 3 kids, so if I want to invite her and her kids with us on a
outing, then that's where the extra 2 seats come in.

>>OK, but you're still missing a bit of the point, I think.

I don't think I missed the point. I can't order a squadron of bombers if I
want to use them for dogfight. I can't order a squadron of fighters if I
want to bomb an emery warship. So, each 4x4 vehicle is more suited to a
style of driving. Therefore the point is what kind of driving do I do and
depending on what kind of driving I do, the question is do I really need a
4x4? Isn't that the point? (Or am I wrong???)

>>Do you _need_ 4x4? If so, what do you need that for? Just for occasional
on-road extra grip? Or for off-road use?

What I need is something higher than a car because of my height so a 4x4 or
a MPV or something similar would do. However I have been a passenger in a
friend's MPV (It was an Espace) and I'm uncomfy with a MPV so that leaves a
4x4. Beside, a MPV is more suited to a large family at most times, I have a
small family and only need two extra seats when I occasionally ask my close
friend and her kids out. Most of the outings I go to with my kids (or ever
with her and her kids) are the sort of places where fields are being used as
car parks. (Example: Outdoor events) and not only that but we do go out to
the countryside. Also, when my kids are staying at my ex-wife's for the
night, I like to drive out to the countryside, to get to look at the stars.
So there will be some little off-road driving needed.

Look, I have been doing some thinking and for me personally, I would prefer
a 4x4. I drove my close friend's 4x4 for a bit and it feels a bit better
than my car. I aim of for ANY 4x4 that have up to 7 seats. All I want to do
is to find out what 7 seats 4x4s there are out there then I'll worry about
which one would be more suitable for my needs. Thanks to some of the guys
who posted replies to my question, I now found out that there are 9 models
to choose from.

Accompanied by the sound of a chisel on slate
Derek, managed to produce the
following words of wisdom
> "Jack"  wrote in message
> news:v5mdnaXrH5X-jBXanZ2dnUVZ8qydnZ2d@bt.com...
>> I am thinking of buying second hand 4x4 however I want to aim for up
>> to 7 seats. So far, I only know of the following 4x4s that can seat
>> up to 7. If anyone knows of any more models, please feel free to
>> point out any more 4x4s
>> that can seat up to 7.
>>
>> The following 4x4s can seat up to 7 are:
>>
>> Land Rover Discovery
>>
>> Mercedes ML
>>
>> Mercedes GL
>>
>> Nissan Terrano
>>
>> Nissan Pathfinder
>>
>> Toyota LandCruiser
>>
>> If anyone spots any mistakes with any of the above, please feel free
>> to correct me and if anyone knows of any more, please could you tell
>> me what else are there?

> Add in to the equation the Audi Q7 Quattro,Audi 100 Avant Quattro,
> Volvo C70 Volvo XC90, Volvo 850 T5R , Subaru B9 Tribeca

Depends on how much you want to spend really.

The problem with 4x4s is the Anti 4x4 mob are gaining in power on a weekly 
basis, Red Ken is doing what he can to make them as socially unacceptible as 
he can, and people using them for the School Run are making it worse.

I adore my old Range Rover and use it for everything, towing cars and 
trailers, off roading, as a van for gigs, and soon for a 2000 mile European 
tour. It's the perfect tool for my work, and one of my favourite cars of all 
time, but the "Anti 4x4" brigade are making it more difficult in any way 
possible along with the emissions muppets who conveniently ignore that a 20 
year old vehicle, maintained properly and used sparingly is about the most 
ecologically friendly form of motorised transport there is.

The people who are pro-4x4 seem to be judged as a bunch of oily fingered, 
bearded weirdos or on the same level as the scrotes who race down inner city 
streets on stolen trail bikes. X5 drivers seem to use theirs solely for 
either drug dealing or the school run. It's not easy explaining to some 
people that a 4x4 can be an exceptionally useful and environmentally 
friendly mode of transport.

-- 
Pete M -  OMF#9
"Save your breath for cooling your porridge!
W&P Range Rover V8 Turbo
Scorpio Ultima 24v

Pete M ("Pete M" ) gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying:

>> Add in to the equation the Audi Q7 Quattro,Audi 100 Avant Quattro,
>> Volvo C70 Volvo XC90, Volvo 850 T5R , Subaru B9 Tribeca

> Depends on how much you want to spend really.

Well, he has got the Merc GL in his original list...

Jack  wibbled something like:
>>>>> Yes, of course, it all depends on what I want to use a 4x4 for
>>>>> but it do
> not matter much anyway, there's a limited number of 4x4s capable of
> seating up to 7 and I now found out that there are only roughly 10 of
> them so far. I don't have much of a choice but to pick one anyway.
>
>>>>> Well, like you said, "almost anything will suit" as I am a single
>>>>> parent
> with two kids and need it mainly for general everyday use, with the
> two seats folded down or removed. And I have a close friend who is a
> single mother with 3 kids, so if I want to invite her and her kids
> with us on a outing, then that's where the extra 2 seats come in.
>
>>> OK, but you're still missing a bit of the point, I think.
>
> I don't think I missed the point. I can't order a squadron of bombers
> if I want to use them for dogfight. I can't order a squadron of
> fighters if I want to bomb an emery warship. So, each 4x4 vehicle is
> more suited to a style of driving. Therefore the point is what kind
> of driving do I do and depending on what kind of driving I do, the
> question is do I really need a 4x4? Isn't that the point? (Or am I
> wrong???)
>
>>> Do you _need_ 4x4? If so, what do you need that for? Just for
>>> occasional
> on-road extra grip? Or for off-road use?
>
> What I need is something higher than a car because of my height so a
> 4x4 or a MPV or something similar would do. However I have been a
> passenger in a friend's MPV (It was an Espace) and I'm uncomfy with a
> MPV so that leaves a 4x4. Beside, a MPV is more suited to a large
> family at most times, I have a small family and only need two extra
> seats when I occasionally ask my close friend and her kids out. Most
> of the outings I go to with my kids (or ever with her and her kids)
> are the sort of places where fields are being used as car parks.
> (Example: Outdoor events) and not only that but we do go out to the
> countryside. Also, when my kids are staying at my ex-wife's for the
> night, I like to drive out to the countryside, to get to look at the
> stars. So there will be some little off-road driving needed.
>
> Look, I have been doing some thinking and for me personally, I would
> prefer a 4x4. I drove my close friend's 4x4 for a bit and it feels a
> bit better than my car. I aim of for ANY 4x4 that have up to 7 seats.
> All I want to do is to find out what 7 seats 4x4s there are out there
> then I'll worry about which one would be more suitable for my needs.
> Thanks to some of the guys who posted replies to my question, I now
> found out that there are 9 models to choose from.

OK.  We have two adults and two children and a Landrover Discovery 3 door 
300 Tdi '96/'97 model (P reg).  We almost always travel in it as a family, 
if we're going out somewhere we invariably take at least one friend each for 
the boys, so the two extra seats in the boot are used frequently.  With six 
of us in it there's still reasonable luggage space.  With seven in the 
luggage space is pretty limited, though the footwells in the rear are good 
and the spaces under the seats in the rear are also larger than they look, 
IYSWIM.

It's sat on the drive most of the week, used almost exclusively now only at 
weekends, is ten years old and isn't worth more than two grand, I guess. 
But it's great.  It tows our caravan with seven people and four bikes with 
ease, it'll tow anything (in the trailer) from the garden/small-holding to 
the tip/recycle centre, willl cope with almost any furniture when seats are 
packed away or folded over and is an extremely versatile all-rounder. 
Cheapish to buy nowadays, cheapish to run (we run on veg oil/diesel mix) and 
a doddle to maintain as ours doesn't have the ECU or fly-by-wire stuff of 
the more modern Discos.

It's feckin' ace off-road, where it spends a lot of it's time, though we 
have larger tyres on it and various guards and other stff to make 
off-roading safer and more reliable.

I'd recommend a Disco to anyone who needs a vehicle to do more than the 
usual 'car stuff'.  If you ever want to go off-road the standard Disco is 
still way better than almost any other make of 4x4, but if you never want to 
venture off-road then it's, IMHO, still a damn fine bit of kit, which can be 
made even better for totally road-based work very easily. (Road oriented 
tyres, stiffer springs, stiffer ARB's etc)

In our area there's no hassle from the tree-huggers (rural area) but if you 
live in a city then I'd suggest that a 4x4 probably isn't the best choice. 
Almost any large estate would probably suit better, many Volvo's, for 
example, have seven seats.  If you want a 4x4 just because of it's style 
then I think before long you'll soon be disappointed in it.
-- 
Dogpoop

Stand by me.
http://www.glass-uk.org/

Accompanied by the sound of a chisel on slate
Adrian, managed to produce the following words
of wisdom
> Pete M ("Pete M" ) gurgled
> happily, sounding much like they were saying:
>
>>> Add in to the equation the Audi Q7 Quattro,Audi 100 Avant Quattro,
>>> Volvo C70 Volvo XC90, Volvo 850 T5R , Subaru B9 Tribeca
>
>> Depends on how much you want to spend really.
>
> Well, he has got the Merc GL in his original list...

Troo. I had spotted that but wasn't sure how serious the list was.

For a huge 4x4 you can't beat the Ford Excursion.


-- 
Pete M -  OMF#9
"Save your breath for cooling your porridge!
W&P Range Rover V8 Turbo
Scorpio Ultima 24v

Add to the list the Mitsubishi Outlander - very new, so probably minila 
second hand
also Ssang Yong s new range includes several, inlcudiong one which 
claims to be a 4WD people carrier which will carry 7 AND luggage.

Pete M wrote:
> Accompanied by the sound of a chisel on slate
> Adrian, managed to produce the following words
> of wisdom
>> Pete M ("Pete M" ) gurgled
>> happily, sounding much like they were saying:
>>
>>>> Add in to the equation the Audi Q7 Quattro,Audi 100 Avant Quattro,
>>>> Volvo C70 Volvo XC90, Volvo 850 T5R , Subaru B9 Tribeca
>>> Depends on how much you want to spend really.
>> Well, he has got the Merc GL in his original list...
> 
> Troo. I had spotted that but wasn't sure how serious the list was.
> 
> For a huge 4x4 you can't beat the Ford Excursion.
> 
>

>>Depends on how much you want to spend really.

I am not after any 7 seats 4x4 depending on the price tag. The first most
important thing for me is to find out a range of 7 seats 4x4s then figure
out which models would be good for me. Then worry about the costs later.

>>The problem with 4x4s is the Anti 4x4 mob are gaining in power on a weekly
basis, Red Ken is doing what he can to make them as socially unacceptible as
he can, and people using them for the School Run are making it worse.

I am aware of this. But if we all stop using 4x4s and start using small
cars. Chances are one day in the future, people who are tall, those over 6
feet tall, will have to bend over in order to help their kids put seat belts
on, or have to duck when driving, in order to see around ‘cos the rear view
mirror blocks part of their view. The more we do this, the worst we’ll do to
our backs. One day in the future, there will be tall drivers going to
hospitals for appointments due to having bad backs ‘cos of cars with less
rooms than 4x4s. In the long run, NHS will end up needing more funds to help
cope with this problem. One day taxpayers will complain: “Why can’t you get
a big car and sit upright instead of driving a small car which hurts your
back?”

The answer: “I did! But you won the fight to ban 4x4s!!! Now make up your
minds! Do you want us to drive 4x4s or not?!”

Part of the reason for why I opt for a 4x4 was due to the need for more leg
room, height, and better front view. I can’t use the sun visor when driving
my Ford Focus because if I do, it blocks my view then I would duck to see
where I am going. I feel like I am driving in a tank in a car, but I tried a
test drive of a 4x4 and I feel ever better. I’m sorry those people don’t
like 4x4s but they should take it out on the manufactures who made them not
on the drivers.

>>>>Depends on how much you want to spend really.

>>Well, he has got the Merc GL in his original list...

I did not put the GL on my list due to how much it cost. It was due to the
fact that it could seat up to 7.

John Moppett (John Moppett ) gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying:

> Add to the list the Mitsubishi Outlander

...and Cit C-Crosser/Pug 4007 clones.

Jack ("Jack" ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying:

>>>>>Depends on how much you want to spend really.

>>>Well, he has got the Merc GL in his original list...

> I did not put the GL on my list due to how much it cost. It was due to
> the fact that it could seat up to 7.

<rolls eyes>

Anyway, did you have the Landie Defender 110 on your list? 9 seats in one 
of those.

Jack  wrote:

> >>>>Depends on how much you want to spend really.
> 
> >>Well, he has got the Merc GL in his original list...
> 
> I did not put the GL on my list due to how much it cost. It was due to the
> fact that it could seat up to 7.

So can you afford to spend 40K on a car or were you just blowing it out
of your arse? If you can't afford a 40K car why are you encouraging
people to waste their time recommending vehicles way beyond your budget?

Jack  wrote:

> Part of the reason for why I opt for a 4x4 was due to the need for more leg
> room, height, and better front view. I can't use the sun visor when driving
> my Ford Focus because if I do, it blocks my view then I would duck to see
> where I am going. 

The Focus has about the same head height, windscreen size, seat size and
legroom as the average 4x4. The Focus is quite a tall, boxy vehicle for
its sector. What it doesn't have is a "fuck off I'm bigger than you are"
driving position, but that's not the same thing.

If you simply admitted you want a 4x4 because they appeal to you rather
than making up bollocks reasons for having one, you would do better. If
you defined a budget you would be doing well.

%steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote in
news:1iaqn38.5g1wwfgfpqirN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk: 

>> Part of the reason for why I opt for a 4x4 was due to the need for
>> more leg room, height, and better front view. I can't use the sun
>> visor when driving my Ford Focus because if I do, it blocks my view
>> then I would duck to see where I am going. 
> 
> The Focus has about the same head height, windscreen size, seat size
> and legroom as the average 4x4. The Focus is quite a tall, boxy
> vehicle for its sector. What it doesn't have is a "fuck off I'm bigger
> than you are" driving position, but that's not the same thing.

For such large vehicles, many 4x4s offer surprisingly cramped driver 
accommodation. I'm well over 6 ft tall, don't fit behind the wheel of a 
Defender, just about squeeze behind the wheel of a Disco 1 or 2, and if 
truth be told could do with an inch or two of extra space in my Pajero. 
OTOH, the car that I've driven that had the most capacious driver 
accommodation was a 1980s VW Polo. More recently, I found that a hired 
Peugeot 208 offered more room for the driver than does my Pajero.

I guess that this all boils down to "suck it and see". If you're tall don't 
write off a car or assume you'll fit from the exterior size - you have to 
try it on for size to be sure!

HTH,

-- 
Geoff

In a dim and distant universe <1iaqn38.5g1wwfgfpqirN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>,
   Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:
> The Focus has about the same head height, windscreen size, seat size and
> legroom as the average 4x4.

Oh come off it. That's plainly not true. I've got a Land Rover and it's got
far more room than a Focus in all those areas. Plus, the Focus is horrible
to drive - we have them as hire cars for callout jobs at work.

The biggest problem with the Focus, is that the seats are really
uncomfortable. I had a bad back for a week after driving one from Hampshire
up to Manchester, despite re-adjusting the seat about 20 times en route.
Plus, the Focus has really bad visibility when coming to junctions and
roundabouts. It seems to have a badly designed windscreen/door pillar
arrangement.

And my Land Rover has about three times the headroom of the Focus and just
feels more spacious all round. No comparison in my view.

-- 
Usenet replies: To contact me, visit www.vigay.com/feedback/

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On 2008-01-15, Paul Vigay  wrote:

> And my Land Rover has about three times the headroom of the Focus and just
> feels more spacious all round. No comparison in my view.

Obviously not a Defender then, bloody cramped ;-)

-- 
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

Accompanied by the sound of a chisel on slate Paul
Vigay, managed to produce
the following words of wisdom
> In a dim and distant universe
>   <1iaqn38.5g1wwfgfpqirN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>, Steve Firth
> <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:
>> The Focus has about the same head height, windscreen size, seat size
>> and legroom as the average 4x4.
>
> Oh come off it. That's plainly not true. I've got a Land Rover and
> it's got far more room than a Focus in all those areas. Plus, the
> Focus is horrible to drive - we have them as hire cars for callout
> jobs at work.
>
> The biggest problem with the Focus, is that the seats are really
> uncomfortable. I had a bad back for a week after driving one from
> Hampshire up to Manchester, despite re-adjusting the seat about 20
> times en route. Plus, the Focus has really bad visibility when coming
> to junctions and roundabouts. It seems to have a badly designed
> windscreen/door pillar arrangement.
>
> And my Land Rover has about three times the headroom of the Focus and
> just feels more spacious all round. No comparison in my view.

Land Rover 90s have absolutely bugger all legroom though. I'm 6'2" and I 
can't drive a Land Rover 90 for more than a few miles without suffering. No 
legroom, no shoulder room and having to duck down to see out of the bloody 
things.

-- 
Pete M -  OMF#9
"Save your breath for cooling your porridge!
W&P Range Rover V8 Turbo
Scorpio Ultima 24v

In a dim and distant universe ,
   Ian Rawlings  enlightened us thusly:

> Obviously not a Defender then, bloody cramped ;-)

Discovery! :-)

-- 
Usenet replies: To contact me, visit www.vigay.com/feedback/

Life, the Universe, RISC OS Help and Everything - www.vigay.com/
Share and discuss ideas or chat about the above - forum.vigay.com/
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Paul Vigay  wrote:

> In a dim and distant universe <1iaqn38.5g1wwfgfpqirN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>,
>    Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:
> > The Focus has about the same head height, windscreen size, seat size and
> > legroom as the average 4x4.
> 
> Oh come off it. That's plainly not true. I've got a Land Rover and it's got
> far more room than a Focus in all those areas. Plus, the Focus is horrible
> to drive - we have them as hire cars for callout jobs at work.

You appear to be suffering from some sort of delusion. The Focus is one
of the better handling small cars and Land Rover offer about the most
cramped driver experience ever.

On 2008-01-15, Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:

> You appear to be suffering from some sort of delusion. The Focus is one
> of the better handling small cars and Land Rover offer about the most
> cramped driver experience ever.
  
I've seen a number of polite posts from you recently Steve, and was
worried that you were ill.  Nice to see you're well again!

He said the focus was horrible to drive, which it is, which doesn't
mean it's a bad handling car, just that some people find it unpleasant
to drive.

As for Land Rover being cramped, my Defender certainly is, no argument
there, and now I've got the truck cab on it's even more cramped
because the truck cab stops the seat going back much, and it never
went back much in the first place...

I drove a Discovery 1 once, not so cramped, but *that* was a horrible
car to drive..

The Disco 3 and the current Range Rovers don't seem to be cramped.

-- 
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

In a dim and distant universe
<1iarssb.13rdxcg12u0ftgN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>,
   Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:

> You appear to be suffering from some sort of delusion. The Focus is one
> of the better handling small cars and Land Rover offer about the most
> cramped driver experience ever.

Certainly not in my experience, of extensive driving of both.

-- 
Usenet replies: To contact me, visit www.vigay.com/feedback/

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Quality Internet, Domain Registration & Hosting - www.orpheusinternet.co.uk/

>>>>>>>>Depends on how much you want to spend really.

>>>>>>Well, he has got the Merc GL in his original list...

>>>>I did not put the GL on my list due to how much it cost. It was due to
the fact that it could seat up to 7.

>>So can you afford to spend 40K on a car or were you just blowing it out of
your arse? If you can't afford a 40K car why are you encouraging people to
waste their time recommending vehicles way beyond your budget?

This is not the point and reason for my list including the GL. All I did was
to find out which 4x4s is able to seat up to 7 and make a list. Once I have
found out every possible 7 seats 4x4, the next thing I will do is to carry
out research on which model would be good for me. I did not know that the GL
cost £40,000 until you start mentioning that. Like I said, all I did was to
find out every 4x4s that have 7 seats.

And no, I am not wasting people’s time. In fact, I wish to thank each and
every one of them for actually telling me of any 7 seat 4x4s that I did not
know of.

>>>>The Focus has about the same head height, windscreen size, seat size and
legroom as the average 4x4.

>>Oh come off it. That's plainly not true. I've got a Land Rover and it's
got far more room than a Focus in all those areas. Plus, the Focus is
horrible to drive - we have them as hire cars for callout jobs at work.


I agree! I actually test drive a Land Rover Discovery and a Mazda Tribute (I
know the Tribute don’t have 7 seats but my friend have one and let me try it
out a bit) and found out that surprising that sitting in a 4x4 feels like
there is more room than my Focus. Plus....


>>The biggest problem with the Focus, is that the seats are really
uncomfortable. I had a bad back for a week after driving one from Hampshire
up to Manchester, despite re-adjusting the seat about 20 times en route.
Plus, the Focus has really bad visibility when coming to junctions and
roundabouts. It seems to have a badly designed windscreen/door pillar
arrangement.


I agree again! While I do like the Focus and love it, I have to give it up
because I do not feel comfortable sitting in it. I lowered the seat right
all the way down but did not feel comfy driving it, so I re-adjusted until
it was at maximum height but that leaves me with looking out of the top part
of the windscreen, the part where the wipers can’t reach. I still have to
bend my back a little to see where I am going, so my shoulders hurts and
sometimes my back. When I am at a computer, I sit upright for health and
safely reasons, when I test drove a couple of 4x4s, I feel like I was
sitting at a desk. More upright and keep my back straight.


Also, it is a matter of how I feel getting into and out of a 4x4. Plus it is
a matter of going to the back door, open it, and be able to get my kids in
or out of the 4x4, or helping them put their seat belts on, by staying
upright, just duck my head so not to bang against the roof. With a car, I
have to bend over.


>>And my Land Rover has about three times the headroom of the Focus and just
feels more spacious all round. No comparison in my view.


I agree once more time!!! Mr Vigay, what you have said so far had helped me
decided that it do sounds like a 4x4 would be a better choice for me. I plan
to test drive a few different 4x4s to see how I feel, but you’re right.

Ian Rawlings  wrote:

> On 2008-01-15, Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> > You appear to be suffering from some sort of delusion. The Focus is one
> > of the better handling small cars and Land Rover offer about the most
> > cramped driver experience ever.
>   
> I've seen a number of polite posts from you recently Steve, and was
> worried that you were ill.  Nice to see you're well again!

Ah yes, somebody calling me a liar is of course in no way impolite.

> He said the focus was horrible to drive, which it is

No, that's a load of old bollocks.

> which doesn't mean it's a bad handling car, just that some people find it
> unpleasant to drive.

The same people who think it's trendy to knock any Ford product, no
doubt.

Paul Vigay  wrote:

> In a dim and distant universe
> <1iarssb.13rdxcg12u0ftgN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>,
>    Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:
> 
> > You appear to be suffering from some sort of delusion. The Focus is one
> > of the better handling small cars and Land Rover offer about the most
> > cramped driver experience ever.
> 
> Certainly not in my experience, of extensive driving of both.

Yes dear, but hours spent in front of Grand Playstation Touring Cars GTA
don't count.

On 2008-01-15, Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:

> Ah yes, somebody calling me a liar is of course in no way impolite.

Didn't see me say it was polite..

>> He said the focus was horrible to drive, which it is
>
> No, that's a load of old bollocks.

Whether a car is horrible to drive or not is a matter of *taste*,
personally I don't like most modern cars, but like my old audi diesel
automatic, believe it or not..

> The same people who think it's trendy to knock any Ford product, no
> doubt.

They made the GT40 which gives them some leeway for cockup, but I find
their cars are on the whole rather dull, same as those from toyota,
volkswagen, peugeot, subaru etc etc etc..

-- 
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

Ian Rawlings  wrote:

> Whether a car is horrible to drive or not is a matter of *taste*,

No, it's a matter of *prejudice* in this instance, and a warping of the
English language to boot. The fact that someone feels uncomortable in a
Focus because they don't like to be seen driving a Ford doesn't make a
car "horrible to drive". Indeed the Focus isn't by any stretch of the
imagination "horrible to drive".

If you want horrible to drive, try a Dodge Calibre or a Daewoo (just
about any one of them will do) or the current Astra. The Focus is many
things, but it's never been "horrible to drive", not even close to it.

On 2008-01-16, Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:

> If you want horrible to drive, try a Dodge Calibre or a Daewoo (just
> about any one of them will do) or the current Astra. The Focus is many
> things, but it's never been "horrible to drive", not even close to it.

Sorry Steve, but you don't seem to get the difference between opinion
and fact, a Focus is a Car for example, that's fact, a Focus is a
horrible soul-less device on the other hand, that's opinion, and
there's no right or wrong with the latter.

-- 
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

Ian Rawlings  wrote:

> On 2008-01-16, Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> > If you want horrible to drive, try a Dodge Calibre or a Daewoo (just
> > about any one of them will do) or the current Astra. The Focus is many
> > things, but it's never been "horrible to drive", not even close to it.
> 
> Sorry Steve, but you don't seem to get the difference between opinion
> and fact

I know the difference perfectly well, thank you.

>, a Focus is a Car for example, that's fact, a Focus is a horrible
>soul-less device on the other hand, that's opinion, and there's no
>right or wrong with the latter.

And that's bullshit. Opinon can be incorrect and the "opinion" you are
expressing is incorrect. The fact that it's simply the usual, somewhat
tedious, Ford knocking bollocks is simply tiresome.

Trying to exempt your statements from criticism by stating that they are
only opinion is most amusing.

Geoff Lane <geoff@nospam.invalid> wibbled something like:
> %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote in
> news:1iaqn38.5g1wwfgfpqirN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk:
>
>>> Part of the reason for why I opt for a 4x4 was due to the need for
>>> more leg room, height, and better front view. I can't use the sun
>>> visor when driving my Ford Focus because if I do, it blocks my view
>>> then I would duck to see where I am going.
>>
>> The Focus has about the same head height, windscreen size, seat size
>> and legroom as the average 4x4. The Focus is quite a tall, boxy
>> vehicle for its sector. What it doesn't have is a "fuck off I'm
>> bigger than you are" driving position, but that's not the same thing.
>
> For such large vehicles, many 4x4s offer surprisingly cramped driver
> accommodation. I'm well over 6 ft tall, don't fit behind the wheel of
> a Defender, just about squeeze behind the wheel of a Disco 1 or 2,
> and if truth be told could do with an inch or two of extra space in
> my Pajero. OTOH, the car that I've driven that had the most capacious
> driver accommodation was a 1980s VW Polo. More recently, I found that
> a hired Peugeot 208 offered more room for the driver than does my
> Pajero.

Conversely I'm 5'4", and the Disco suits me perfectly.  :)

-- 
Dogpoop

Stand by me.
http://www.glass-uk.org/

Accompanied by the sound of a chisel on slate Steve
Firth,<%steve%@malloc.co.uk> managed to produce the following words of
wisdom
> Ian Rawlings  wrote:
>
>> On 2008-01-16, Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> If you want horrible to drive, try a Dodge Calibre or a Daewoo (just
>>> about any one of them will do) or the current Astra. The Focus is
>>> many things, but it's never been "horrible to drive", not even
>>> close to it.
>>
>> Sorry Steve, but you don't seem to get the difference between opinion
>> and fact
>
> I know the difference perfectly well, thank you.
>
>> , a Focus is a Car for example, that's fact, a Focus is a horrible
>> soul-less device on the other hand, that's opinion, and there's no
>> right or wrong with the latter.
>
> And that's bullshit. Opinon can be incorrect and the "opinion" you are
> expressing is incorrect. The fact that it's simply the usual, somewhat
> tedious, Ford knocking bollocks is simply tiresome.
>
> Trying to exempt your statements from criticism by stating that they
> are only opinion is most amusing.

I have to say I agree with Steve when it comes to the Focus being good to 
drive. I'm in the motor trade and deal with everything from the humblest 
Daewoo to the snazziest Porsches and the Focus is one of the nicest things 
out there to drive - of any size. It's far and away the best in its group to 
own and drive.

I have to note that I'm not a Ford dealer..


-- 
Pete M -  OMF#9
"Save your breath for cooling your porridge!
W&P Range Rover V8 Turbo
Scorpio Ultima 24v

On 2008-01-16, Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:

> I know the difference perfectly well, thank you.

Plainly not!

> And that's bullshit. Opinon can be incorrect and the "opinion" you are
> expressing is incorrect. The fact that it's simply the usual, somewhat
> tedious, Ford knocking bollocks is simply tiresome.

Fanboy!

> Trying to exempt your statements from criticism by stating that they are
> only opinion is most amusing.

You really don't know the difference do you..

-- 
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

On 2008-01-16, Pete M  wrote:

> I have to say I agree with Steve when it comes to the Focus being good to 
> drive.

Where I disagree with Steve is that he thinks *everyone* finds the
focus being a nice car to drive and anyone who doesn't like it is a
liar.  He thinks his opinions are facts.

-- 
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

Accompanied by the sound of a chisel on slate Ian
Rawlings, managed to produce the following words
of wisdom
> On 2008-01-16, Pete M  wrote:
>
>> I have to say I agree with Steve when it comes to the Focus being
>> good to drive.
>
> Where I disagree with Steve is that he thinks *everyone* finds the
> focus being a nice car to drive and anyone who doesn't like it is a
> liar.  He thinks his opinions are facts.

You're right enough that not everyone likes the Focus. When they were first 
released I was running a car hire fleet which still had some Escorts. The 
first time any of us drove a Focus we put all the Escorts up for sale but 
people would still come in saying they'd rather hire an Escort or Golf than 
a Focus. We thought they were clearly benefitting from "Care in the 
community" but it's horses for courses innit?.

Ford have made some awful cars in the past, but the Focus is definately not 
one of them. I'd rather drive a Mk1 Focus than a new VW Golf or pretty much 
anything else of its size.

-- 
Pete M -  OMF#9
"Save your breath for cooling your porridge!
W&P Range Rover V8 Turbo
Scorpio Ultima 24v

On 2008-01-16, Pete M  wrote:

> Ford have made some awful cars in the past, but the Focus is definately not 
> one of them. I'd rather drive a Mk1 Focus than a new VW Golf or pretty much 
> anything else of its size.

I'm quite sure that the focus is probably a good car by modern car
standards (I remember it getting good reviews), but subjectivity and
not objectivity is the rule when it comes to whether a person thinks a
car is nice to drive or not.  Personally I've never driven that class
of car and liked it, I like my cars either very sporty, very
agricultural or more cosseting like a well-trimmed Audi (even an old
one).  So to me, the focus is a horrible car to drive, I had one as a
courtesy car and was glad to get back to my rattly old Audi 1.9 TDi.

-- 
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

Ian Rawlings  wrote:

> On 2008-01-16, Pete M  wrote:
> 
> > I have to say I agree with Steve when it comes to the Focus being good to
> > drive.
> 
> Where I disagree with Steve is that he thinks *everyone* finds the
> focus being a nice car to drive and anyone who doesn't like it is a
> liar. 

No I don't and I've said no such thing.

> He thinks his opinions are facts.

That would be you, the one making up complete bullshit and then claiming
that it is something that I think. When did you become a mind reader?

On 2008-01-16, Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:

> Ian Rawlings  wrote:
>
>> On 2008-01-16, Pete M  wrote:
>> 
>> > I have to say I agree with Steve when it comes to the Focus being good to
>> > drive.
>> 
>> Where I disagree with Steve is that he thinks *everyone* finds the
>> focus being a nice car to drive and anyone who doesn't like it is a
>> liar. 
>
> No I don't and I've said no such thing.

You've said that anyone who thinks a ford focus is a horrible car is
wrong and a ford-beater, despite it plainly being a matter of taste
and not fact, the rest is less of an extrapolation than those you've
leapt at in this thread.

> That would be you, the one making up complete bullshit and then claiming
> that it is something that I think. When did you become a mind reader?

I can read my own mind, you it seems can't see into your own.

-- 
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

Pete M ("Pete M" ) gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying:

> I have to say I agree with Steve when it comes to the Focus being good
> to drive. I'm in the motor trade and deal with everything from the
> humblest Daewoo to the snazziest Porsches and the Focus is one of the
> nicest things out there to drive - of any size. It's far and away the
> best in its group to own and drive.

A colleague has an S-reg 1.8 Ghia estate. Had it for years.

He _hates_ it - to the point where he actually prefers driving his wife's 
1.9D ZX.

Ian Rawlings  wrote:

> On 2008-01-16, Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> > Ian Rawlings  wrote:
> >
> >> On 2008-01-16, Pete M  wrote:
> >> 
> >> > I have to say I agree with Steve when it comes to the Focus being good to
> >> > drive.
> >> 
> >> Where I disagree with Steve is that he thinks *everyone* finds the
> >> focus being a nice car to drive and anyone who doesn't like it is a
> >> liar. 
> >
> > No I don't and I've said no such thing.
> 
> You've said that anyone who thinks a ford focus is a horrible car is
> wrong and a ford-beater, despite it plainly being a matter of taste
> and not fact, the rest is less of an extrapolation than those you've
> leapt at in this thread.

The statement above is a complete load of old bollocks.

> > That would be you, the one making up complete bullshit and then claiming
> > that it is something that I think. When did you become a mind reader?
> 
> I can read my own mind, you it seems can't see into your own.

And more complete shite from you. Here's a clue, get a clue.

On 2008-01-16, Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:

> And more complete shite from you. Here's a clue, get a clue.

That's more like the steve we know, talking shite and claiming
everyone else is ;-) Glad to see your previous politeness was just a
passing phase.

-- 
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

Ian Rawlings  wrote:

> On 2008-01-16, Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> > And more complete shite from you. Here's a clue, get a clue.
> 
> That's more like the steve we know, talking shite and claiming
> everyone else is ;-) Glad to see your previous politeness was just a
> passing phase.

A point so stupid that you had to remove evidence of your stupidity
before making it. Well done, you pathetic arsewipe.

Adrian  wrote:

> Pete M ("Pete M" ) gurgled happily,
> sounding much like they were saying:
> 
> > I have to say I agree with Steve when it comes to the Focus being good
> > to drive. I'm in the motor trade and deal with everything from the
> > humblest Daewoo to the snazziest Porsches and the Focus is one of the
> > nicest things out there to drive - of any size. It's far and away the
> > best in its group to own and drive.
> 
> A colleague has an S-reg 1.8 Ghia estate. Had it for years.
> 
> He _hates_ it - to the point where he actually prefers driving his wife's
> 1.9D ZX.

He's perfectly welcome to hate it, it doesn't mean that it's "horrible"
or even "bad" to drive. It's neither of those things. As Pete says, it's
much better than the Golf to drive, indeed it's far better than the
majority of small hatchbacks. Just as the Mondeo is one of the best
medium sized saloons to drive at the moment. It doesn't stop the
blinkered from making moronic statements or stop them from hating the
car. It doesn't make their hatred objective or even well founded.

In a dim and distant universe <1iatnv4.619snqz9qrm3N%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>,
   Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:
> majority of small hatchbacks. Just as the Mondeo is one of the best
> medium sized saloons to drive at the moment. It doesn't stop the
> blinkered from making moronic statements or stop them from hating the
> car. It doesn't make their hatred objective or even well founded.

I'll agree with that bit. I like the Mondeo. In fact my non 4x4 is a Mondeo
and it's a pleasure to drive - so I'm no Ford hater. However, I do
intensely dislike the Focus because, for me, it's very uncomfortable and I
can't seem to get the seat adjustment right - and there's a severe blind
spot between the windscreen and the drivers door, which makes pulling out
of junctions and going round roundabouts irritating to me.

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On 2008-01-16, Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:

> A point so stupid that you had to remove evidence of your stupidity
> before making it. Well done, you pathetic arsewipe.

You just have to get the last word eh steve, pity you waste them as
usual!

Go on, let someone else have the last word for a change!

(I wonder how long I can string this out for)

-- 
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

On 2008-01-16, Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:

> He's perfectly welcome to hate it, it doesn't mean that it's "horrible"
> or even "bad" to drive.

Subjective.. Look it up steve!  You're always waffling on about your
scientific credentials, sure you're not mis-spelling scientologist?

> It doesn't stop the blinkered from making moronic statements

Nothing can stop you steve!

-- 
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

Ian Rawlings  wrote:

> On 2008-01-16, Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> > He's perfectly welcome to hate it, it doesn't mean that it's "horrible"
> > or even "bad" to drive.
> 
> Subjective.. Look it up steve!  You're always waffling on about your
> scientific credentials,


More lies.

> sure you're not mis-spelling scientologist?

I'm sure you're an idiot.

> > It doesn't stop the blinkered from making moronic statements
> 
> Nothing can stop you steve!

Blah, blah, blah...

On 2008-01-16, Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:

> I'm sure you're an idiot.

If I'm an idiot, how come I can tell the difference between subjective
and objective, unlike your finely tuned brain..

> Blah, blah, blah...

More sense than usual..

-- 
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

Ian Rawlings  wrote:

> On 2008-01-16, Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> > I'm sure you're an idiot.
> 
> If I'm an idiot, how come I can tell the difference between subjective
> and objective, unlike your finely tuned brain..
> 
> > Blah, blah, blah...
> 
> More sense than I usually post.

Indeed.

On 2008-01-17, Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:

>> More sense than I usually post.
>
> Indeed.

Oh steve, that was so funny!  Someone hold my sides lest they split.

-- 
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

"Adrian"  wrote in message 
news:fmg6vl$un2$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> John Moppett (John Moppett ) gurgled happily,
> sounding much like they were saying:
>
>> Add to the list the Mitsubishi Outlander
>
> ...and Cit C-Crosser/Pug 4007 clones.

Oh I saw an ad last night the Chevrolet Captiva has 7 seat option as well.
is that a Kia or Ssangyong?
Derek

Derek ("Derek" ) gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying:

>>> Add to the list the Mitsubishi Outlander

>> ...and Cit C-Crosser/Pug 4007 clones.

> Oh I saw an ad last night the Chevrolet Captiva has 7 seat option as
> well. is that a Kia or Ssangyong?

It's a Direwoo..

Steve Firth wrote:
> If you simply admitted you want a 4x4 because they appeal to you
> rather than making up bollocks reasons for having one, you would do
> better. If you defined a budget you would be doing well.


STEVE - You are a troll - look back in this NG and a "steve filth" and you
used the same excuses for the other side if the argument

For everyone else -


> Demand why Steve has not explained why he is young and old and has
> homes everywhere in the Country that anyone  mentions
>

> surely not a trolling little LIAR Steve ? - No, no, no  that would be
> "libel" eh ?