After 30+ years of driving and never had a rotor arm fail, I've had 3 fail
in the last 18 months, the last one on Saturday (when it was hot) having
only managed about 200 miles. It's in an old 1960 British car with a Lucas
DM6 distributor (as used by Jag, Land Rover, Austin etc) with standard
points,  condenser and coil. I've now changed the distributor to a Lucas
25D6 and fitted a new coil so  hopefully it will solve the problem once and
for all.

As there is almost nothing to go wrong with them, apart from arcing and
shorting, what could cause them to arc or short out? Or are they now just
Asian rubbish - as opposed to British Lucas rubbish :-)

The Original Anti-Theft Device - Lucas Electrics
If Lucas made guns, wars would not start

I don't think we can blame Lucas for this one, as they don't exist any
more!. My son's Spitfire rotor arm failed (it looked OK) and we replaced the
Electronic Ignition Module, coil and dizzie cap first before we discovered
it was the rotor arm. I don't know who makes them nowadays, but Bill will
know!

Nowadays I replace these frequently if I get a misfire!

Read all the latest Lucas Jokes after a quick Google on

http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1255562

ken

Ken Forrest wrote:

> I don't think we can blame Lucas for this one, as they don't exist any
> more!. My son's Spitfire rotor arm failed (it looked OK) and we replaced the
> Electronic Ignition Module, coil and dizzie cap first before we discovered
> it was the rotor arm. I don't know who makes them nowadays, but Bill will
> know!
> 
> Nowadays I replace these frequently if I get a misfire!
> 



How does a rotor fail when its only an arm across some plastic.

On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 09:39:27 +1000, Rob  wrote:

>Ken Forrest wrote:
>
>> I don't think we can blame Lucas for this one, as they don't exist any
>> more!. My son's Spitfire rotor arm failed (it looked OK) and we replaced the
>> Electronic Ignition Module, coil and dizzie cap first before we discovered
>> it was the rotor arm. I don't know who makes them nowadays, but Bill will
>> know!
>> 
>> Nowadays I replace these frequently if I get a misfire!
>
>How does a rotor fail when its only an arm across some plastic.

You didn't live through the age of electromechanical ignition systems,
did you?

On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 09:39:27 +1000, Rob  wrote:

>Ken Forrest wrote:
>
>> I don't think we can blame Lucas for this one, as they don't exist any
>> more!. My son's Spitfire rotor arm failed (it looked OK) and we replaced the
>> Electronic Ignition Module, coil and dizzie cap first before we discovered
>> it was the rotor arm. I don't know who makes them nowadays, but Bill will
>> know!
>> 
>> Nowadays I replace these frequently if I get a misfire!
>> 
>
>
>
>How does a rotor fail when its only an arm across some plastic.

The one on my car failed when the locating key bit in the plastic that
goes over the shaft broke off leaving the rotor arm to not turn
properly. It took about an hour in a car park to work that one out!
--
http://www.101club.org 
The 101 Forward Control Club and Register

Dean Dark wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 09:39:27 +1000, Rob  wrote:
> 
> 
>>Ken Forrest wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I don't think we can blame Lucas for this one, as they don't exist any
>>>more!. My son's Spitfire rotor arm failed (it looked OK) and we replaced the
>>>Electronic Ignition Module, coil and dizzie cap first before we discovered
>>>it was the rotor arm. I don't know who makes them nowadays, but Bill will
>>>know!
>>>
>>>Nowadays I replace these frequently if I get a misfire!
>>
>>How does a rotor fail when its only an arm across some plastic.
> 
> 
> You didn't live through the age of electromechanical ignition systems,
> did you?

yes

Tom Woods wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 09:39:27 +1000, Rob  wrote:
> 
> 
>>Ken Forrest wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I don't think we can blame Lucas for this one, as they don't exist any
>>>more!. My son's Spitfire rotor arm failed (it looked OK) and we replaced the
>>>Electronic Ignition Module, coil and dizzie cap first before we discovered
>>>it was the rotor arm. I don't know who makes them nowadays, but Bill will
>>>know!
>>>
>>>Nowadays I replace these frequently if I get a misfire!
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>How does a rotor fail when its only an arm across some plastic.
> 
> 
> The one on my car failed when the locating key bit in the plastic that
> goes over the shaft broke off leaving the rotor arm to not turn
> properly. It took about an hour in a car park to work that one out!
> --
> http://www.101club.org 
> The 101 Forward Control Club and Register 

OK

One of normal sequence of events which I do, when a car stops and won't 
start.

Check fuel
Check spark
Check Rotor moving
Check timing to see if the rotor is approximately in the correct position.

Reckon you will check next time :)

r

"Rob"  wrote in message
news:466f2eb1$1_7@news.peopletelecom.com.au...
> Ken Forrest wrote:
>
> > I don't think we can blame Lucas for this one, as they don't exist
any
> > more!. My son's Spitfire rotor arm failed (it looked OK) and we
replaced the
> > Electronic Ignition Module, coil and dizzie cap first before we
discovered
> > it was the rotor arm. I don't know who makes them nowadays, but
Bill will
> > know!
> >
> > Nowadays I replace these frequently if I get a misfire!
> >
>
>
>
> How does a rotor fail when its only an arm across some plastic.

There are two common modes of failure. Either the plastic breaks down
as an insulator between the brass arm and the shaft or the arm becomes
loose on the plastic moulding. Lucus  rotor arms are being cloned in
the rice eating areas, and they tend to use unsuitable materials. Some
have a rivet holding  the arm on that also fails. My Austin Healey
3000 uses the same 6 pot distibutor as the Landrover 2.6 slant head
engine and until I found an original rotor (via a Landrover spares
place) I had no end of trouble.

AWEM

Rob wrote:

> How does a rotor fail when its only an arm across some plastic.

1. Rotor tip burns away, preventing spark jumping to cap segment.
2. Rotor centre burns away preventing current reaching rotor.
3. Rotor centre wears a hole, so brush conducts to earth.
4. Tracking occurs from metal part to shaft along dirt, causing 
             permanent damage.
4. Keyed drive breaks, loosing timing.
5. If rotor has metal spring, it fatigue fractures.

I think most of those who tinkered with cars of a certain age will have 
seen some of those problems. I know I certainly have!

Chris

-- 
Remove prejudice to reply.

The message <bIMbi.5535$P57.1142@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net>
from Chris Whelan  contains these words:

> I think most of those who tinkered with cars of a certain age will have 
> seen some of those problems. I know I certainly have!

I saw an Audi 80 saw through its own distributor from the inside. The
advance-retard mechanism had fallen apart and had scraped away the
housing till it all fell apart.

-- 
Skipweasel
We have always been at war with Iran. [George Orwell - almost]

Guy King wrote:
> The message <bIMbi.5535$P57.1142@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net>
> from Chris Whelan  contains these words:
> 
>> I think most of those who tinkered with cars of a certain age will have 
>> seen some of those problems. I know I certainly have!
> 
> I saw an Audi 80 saw through its own distributor from the inside. The
> advance-retard mechanism had fallen apart and had scraped away the
> housing till it all fell apart.

Vorsprung durch technik!

At least it should have been an easy fault to find ;-)

Chris.

"Rob"  wrote in message 
news:466f2eb1$1_7@news.peopletelecom.com.au...

> How does a rotor fail when its only an arm across some plastic.

The plastic fails to insulate.


-- 
Chris, West Cork, Ireland.
Ignoti nulla cupido

On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:59:12 +1000, Rob  wrote:

>OK
>
>One of normal sequence of events which I do, when a car stops and won't 
>start.
>
>Check fuel
>Check spark
>Check Rotor moving
>Check timing to see if the rotor is approximately in the correct position.
>
>Reckon you will check next time :)

Yeah, my diagnosing skills have improved since then after spending a
few years driving proper cars ;) (and i now carry a complete spare
ignition system!)
I also check the springy contact bit in the centre of the dissy cap
since i have also had one of them fall apart and that took some effort
to find!

--
http://www.101club.org 
The 101 Forward Control Club and Register

Tom Woods wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:59:12 +1000, Rob  wrote:
> 
>> OK
>>
>> One of normal sequence of events which I do, when a car stops and won't 
>> start.
>>
>> Check fuel
>> Check spark
>> Check Rotor moving
>> Check timing to see if the rotor is approximately in the correct position.
>>
>> Reckon you will check next time :)
> 
> Yeah, my diagnosing skills have improved since then after spending a
> few years driving proper cars ;) (and i now carry a complete spare
> ignition system!)
> I also check the springy contact bit in the centre of the dissy cap
> since i have also had one of them fall apart and that took some effort
> to find!
> 
My temporary cure for that one is to find a smoker. The foil inside a 
pack of ciggies works for a day or two, IME. Long enough to get 
somewhere civilised, at any rate:-)

HTH

Tciao for Now!

John.
(Driving possibly the most bodged & rusty Landie in Stoke)

"John Williamson"  wrote in message
news:f4om56$rdg$3@stable.tornevall.net...
> Tom Woods wrote:
> > On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:59:12 +1000, Rob  wrote:
> >
> >> OK
> >>
> >> One of normal sequence of events which I do, when a car stops and won't
> >> start.
> >>
> >> Check fuel
> >> Check spark
> >> Check Rotor moving
> >> Check timing to see if the rotor is approximately in the correct
position.
> >>
> >> Reckon you will check next time :)
> >
> > Yeah, my diagnosing skills have improved since then after spending a
> > few years driving proper cars ;) (and i now carry a complete spare
> > ignition system!)
> > I also check the springy contact bit in the centre of the dissy cap
> > since i have also had one of them fall apart and that took some effort
> > to find!
> >
> My temporary cure for that one is to find a smoker. The foil inside a
> pack of ciggies works for a day or two, IME. Long enough to get
> somewhere civilised, at any rate:-)
>

Other uses for the foil inside a fag packet - wrap around a blown cartridge
fuse (strictly to get you home, of course, although I did sort of
accidentally leave one in place for a year or so) and laid over the battery
terminal when the female connector is just too loose to make good contact.

You will understand that this is the sole reason I continue my
two-packs-a-day habit.  The sacrifices we make to run our old cars....

Geoff MacK
19?? Victa S150
1966 E-Type Roadster
1974 Ducati 750GT
2005 bus pass

Geoff Mackenzie wrote:
> "John Williamson"  wrote in message
> news:f4om56$rdg$3@stable.tornevall.net...
>> Tom Woods wrote:
>>> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:59:12 +1000, Rob  wrote:
>>>
>>>> OK
>>>>
>>>> One of normal sequence of events which I do, when a car stops and won't
>>>> start.
>>>>
>>>> Check fuel
>>>> Check spark
>>>> Check Rotor moving
>>>> Check timing to see if the rotor is approximately in the correct
> position.
>>>> Reckon you will check next time :)
>>> Yeah, my diagnosing skills have improved since then after spending a
>>> few years driving proper cars ;) (and i now carry a complete spare
>>> ignition system!)
>>> I also check the springy contact bit in the centre of the dissy cap
>>> since i have also had one of them fall apart and that took some effort
>>> to find!
>>>
>> My temporary cure for that one is to find a smoker. The foil inside a
>> pack of ciggies works for a day or two, IME. Long enough to get
>> somewhere civilised, at any rate:-)
>>
> 
> Other uses for the foil inside a fag packet - wrap around a blown cartridge
> fuse (strictly to get you home, of course, although I did sort of
> accidentally leave one in place for a year or so) and laid over the battery
> terminal when the female connector is just too loose to make good contact.
> 
> You will understand that this is the sole reason I continue my
> two-packs-a-day habit.  The sacrifices we make to run our old cars....
> 
>
ROFL!
I'd forgotten about the fuse one:-)
<Nips out to check the fuse box>
Mined ewe, I use matchsticks or splinters off whatever wood's about for 
loose battery terminals.

Tciao for Now!

John.

On or around Wed, 13 Jun 2007 08:04:28 +0100, "Andrew Mawson"
 enlightened us thusly:

>There are two common modes of failure. Either the plastic breaks down
>as an insulator between the brass arm and the shaft 

I've had one do that - took ages to diagnose it, never having had one
before.
-- 
Austin Shackles.  www.ddol-las.net  my opinions are just that
Travel The Galaxy!  Meet Fascinating Life Forms...
------------------------------------------------\   
   >>  http://www.schlockmercenary.com/  <<      \  ...and Kill them.
a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too!

"John Williamson"  wrote in message
news:f4opkd$u9s$1@stable.tornevall.net...
> Geoff Mackenzie wrote:
> > "John Williamson"  wrote in message
> > news:f4om56$rdg$3@stable.tornevall.net...
> >> Tom Woods wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:59:12 +1000, Rob  wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> OK
> >>>>
> >>>> One of normal sequence of events which I do, when a car stops and
won't
> >>>> start.
> >>>>
> >>>> Check fuel
> >>>> Check spark
> >>>> Check Rotor moving
> >>>> Check timing to see if the rotor is approximately in the correct
> > position.
> >>>> Reckon you will check next time :)
> >>> Yeah, my diagnosing skills have improved since then after spending a
> >>> few years driving proper cars ;) (and i now carry a complete spare
> >>> ignition system!)
> >>> I also check the springy contact bit in the centre of the dissy cap
> >>> since i have also had one of them fall apart and that took some effort
> >>> to find!
> >>>
> >> My temporary cure for that one is to find a smoker. The foil inside a
> >> pack of ciggies works for a day or two, IME. Long enough to get
> >> somewhere civilised, at any rate:-)
> >>
> >
> > Other uses for the foil inside a fag packet - wrap around a blown
cartridge
> > fuse (strictly to get you home, of course, although I did sort of
> > accidentally leave one in place for a year or so) and laid over the
battery
> > terminal when the female connector is just too loose to make good
contact.
> >
> > You will understand that this is the sole reason I continue my
> > two-packs-a-day habit.  The sacrifices we make to run our old cars....
> >
> >
> ROFL!
> I'd forgotten about the fuse one:-)
> <Nips out to check the fuse box>
> Mined ewe, I use matchsticks or splinters off whatever wood's about for
> loose battery terminals.
>
> Tciao for Now!


What?  O Level Physics (failed) tells me wood does not transmit this
electric stuff.  A two-inch nail and big hammer must be a better bet.
Although I do recall that whacking too hard causes the top of the battery to
fall in.

Geoff MacK

Geoff Mackenzie wrote:
> "John Williamson"  wrote in message
> news:f4opkd$u9s$1@stable.tornevall.net...
>> Geoff Mackenzie wrote:
>>> "John Williamson"  wrote in message
>>> news:f4om56$rdg$3@stable.tornevall.net...
>>>> Tom Woods wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:59:12 +1000, Rob  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> OK
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One of normal sequence of events which I do, when a car stops and
> won't
>>>>>> start.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check fuel
>>>>>> Check spark
>>>>>> Check Rotor moving
>>>>>> Check timing to see if the rotor is approximately in the correct
>>> position.
>>>>>> Reckon you will check next time :)
>>>>> Yeah, my diagnosing skills have improved since then after spending a
>>>>> few years driving proper cars ;) (and i now carry a complete spare
>>>>> ignition system!)
>>>>> I also check the springy contact bit in the centre of the dissy cap
>>>>> since i have also had one of them fall apart and that took some effort
>>>>> to find!
>>>>>
>>>> My temporary cure for that one is to find a smoker. The foil inside a
>>>> pack of ciggies works for a day or two, IME. Long enough to get
>>>> somewhere civilised, at any rate:-)
>>>>
>>> Other uses for the foil inside a fag packet - wrap around a blown
> cartridge
>>> fuse (strictly to get you home, of course, although I did sort of
>>> accidentally leave one in place for a year or so) and laid over the
> battery
>>> terminal when the female connector is just too loose to make good
> contact.
>>> You will understand that this is the sole reason I continue my
>>> two-packs-a-day habit.  The sacrifices we make to run our old cars....
>>>
>>>
>> ROFL!
>> I'd forgotten about the fuse one:-)
>> <Nips out to check the fuse box>
>> Mined ewe, I use matchsticks or splinters off whatever wood's about for
>> loose battery terminals.
>>
>> Tciao for Now!
> 
> 
> What?  O Level Physics (failed) tells me wood does not transmit this
> electric stuff.  A two-inch nail and big hammer must be a better bet.
> Although I do recall that whacking too hard causes the top of the battery to
> fall in.
> 
It doesn't, but the space it takes up makes it possible to get a decent 
grip on the terminal, which makes for a halfway decent connection:-)
HTH:-)
If it's in bad enough condition you've got to bodge it like that, the 
bastteries not long for this world anyway, so the fact that the contact 
area's reduced a bit doesn't matter too much.

Tciao for Now!

John.

This is a common problem recently, poor quality rotor arms sold under
Intermotor name, we suspect that the Lucas ones sold by Halfords are made by
the same manufacturer.
Not unknown to have two or three fail in a day.
The insulation in the plastic breaks down, you can even detect this using a
multimeter.
Solution is to get some real old stock ones from the days when they were
made properly. I got some from an ex MOD source.
Barry

"Cerumen"  wrote in message 
news:f4od49$f8d$2@reader01.news.esat.net...
>
> "Rob"  wrote in message 
> news:466f2eb1$1_7@news.peopletelecom.com.au...
>
>> How does a rotor fail when its only an arm across some plastic.
>
> The plastic fails to insulate.
>
>
> -- 
> Chris, West Cork, Ireland.
> Ignoti nulla cupido
>

"Rob"  wrote in message 
news:466f4f72_2@news.peopletelecom.com.au...
> Tom Woods wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 09:39:27 +1000, Rob  wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Ken Forrest wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I don't think we can blame Lucas for this one, as they don't exist any
>>>>more!. My son's Spitfire rotor arm failed (it looked OK) and we replaced 
>>>>the
>>>>Electronic Ignition Module, coil and dizzie cap first before we 
>>>>discovered
>>>>it was the rotor arm. I don't know who makes them nowadays, but Bill 
>>>>will
>>>>know!
>>>>
>>>>Nowadays I replace these frequently if I get a misfire!
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>How does a rotor fail when its only an arm across some plastic.
>>
>>
>> The one on my car failed when the locating key bit in the plastic that
>> goes over the shaft broke off leaving the rotor arm to not turn
>> properly. It took about an hour in a car park to work that one out!
>> --
>> http://www.101club.org The 101 Forward Control Club and Register
>
> OK
>
> One of normal sequence of events which I do, when a car stops and won't 
> start.
>
> Check fuel
> Check spark
> Check Rotor moving
> Check timing to see if the rotor is approximately in the correct position.
>
> Reckon you will check next time :)<


Once lost the spark far from home and too poor to have breakdown cover. 
Spent four dirty and miserable hours before I finally changed the ( newish) 
condenser in an act of desperation - and then found that the LT lead had 
broken inside the braided cloth sheath

Mentally filed that away for future times - but the years passed away  and 
dissies went with them.  Now I can't fix the computerised buggers anyway, so 
I've given up worrying.

trailx  wrote in message
news:5ddn94F3428ekU1@mid.individual.net...
>
>
> Once lost the spark far from home and too poor to have breakdown cover.
> Spent four dirty and miserable hours before I finally changed the (
newish)
> condenser in an act of desperation - and then found that the LT lead had
> broken inside the braided cloth sheath
>
<grins>
That reminds me of an interesting journey with a dud condenser many years
ago.

I was driving a Rover P4 late at night, and with just over 100 miles to go I
started to get spark problems accompanied by a lot of engine speed
interference on the radio and I worked out that the condenser had gone open
circuit.  If I used only a little throttle (less than a quarter) the engine
ran.  If I used too much, the weak spark wouldn't fire it - so effectively
the engine cut out until I lifted off.  I didn't have a spare condenser with
me, but I decided the car would get me home if I was careful.

It wasn't too bad - on the flat with overdrive on I could get around 50mph,
downhill perhaps 55mph.  But uphill, it was 3rd gear and about 25mph.  There
wasn't much traffic around at that time of night so I was managing OK -
until some clown came up behind me!

This was at the time of the temporary blanket 50mph speed limit, and he
wanted to drive at exactly 50mph.  So if I got above 50, I made some space,
and if I dropped below 50 he sat a foot from my back bumper.  It was a
winding road with lots of double white lines, and he made no attempt to
pass, just tailgated me to let me know I was going too slow for him.  Then I
came to a short steep downhill followed by a longer gentler uphill, and I
tried to use the steep bit to get some momentum for the uphill.  I got some,
but gave it too much throttle and the engine cut out.  By the time I lifted
off to get the power back, he was right behind me.  When I lifted off and
got the spark back, it obviously ignited the unburnt petrol/air in the
exhaust, because 15 feet of yellow flame shot out of my tail pipe, up his
bonnet and across his windscreen.  He did an emergency stop.  I carried on,
and never saw him in my mirror again.  I got home ok, and didn't stop
grinning all the way!

I didn't do it on purpose, but what a way to discourage tailgating!

Jim

Jim Warren wrote:

> trailx  wrote in message
> news:5ddn94F3428ekU1@mid.individual.net...
> 
>>
>>Once lost the spark far from home and too poor to have breakdown cover.
>>Spent four dirty and miserable hours before I finally changed the (
> 
> newish)
> 
>>condenser in an act of desperation - and then found that the LT lead had
>>broken inside the braided cloth sheath
>>
> 
> <grins>
>
> off to get the power back, he was right behind me.  When I lifted off and
> got the spark back, it obviously ignited the unburnt petrol/air in the
> exhaust, because 15 feet of yellow flame shot out of my tail pipe, up his
> bonnet and across his windscreen.  

> I didn't do it on purpose, but what a way to discourage tailgating!
> 
> Jim
> 
> 
But now, that you have it worked out, have the direct petrol injection 
into the exhaust system, waiting for that bugger to come along again.

r

"Jim Warren"  wrote in message 
news:uMpci.5310$p8.262@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> trailx  wrote in message
> news:5ddn94F3428ekU1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>>
>> Once lost the spark far from home and too poor to have breakdown cover.
>> Spent four dirty and miserable hours before I finally changed the (
> newish)
>> condenser in an act of desperation - and then found that the LT lead had
>> broken inside the braided cloth sheath
>>
> <grins>
> That reminds me of an interesting journey with a dud condenser many years
> ago.
>
> I was driving a Rover P4 late at night, and with just over 100 miles to go 
> I
> started to get spark problems accompanied by a lot of engine speed
> interference on the radio and I worked out that the condenser had gone 
> open
> circuit.  If I used only a little throttle (less than a quarter) the 
> engine
> ran.  If I used too much, the weak spark wouldn't fire it - so effectively
> the engine cut out until I lifted off.  I didn't have a spare condenser 
> with
> me, but I decided the car would get me home if I was careful.
>
> It wasn't too bad - on the flat with overdrive on I could get around 
> 50mph,
> downhill perhaps 55mph.  But uphill, it was 3rd gear and about 25mph. 
> There
> wasn't much traffic around at that time of night so I was managing OK -
> until some clown came up behind me!
>
> This was at the time of the temporary blanket 50mph speed limit, and he
> wanted to drive at exactly 50mph.  So if I got above 50, I made some 
> space,
> and if I dropped below 50 he sat a foot from my back bumper.  It was a
> winding road with lots of double white lines, and he made no attempt to
> pass, just tailgated me to let me know I was going too slow for him.  Then 
> I
> came to a short steep downhill followed by a longer gentler uphill, and I
> tried to use the steep bit to get some momentum for the uphill.  I got 
> some,
> but gave it too much throttle and the engine cut out.  By the time I 
> lifted
> off to get the power back, he was right behind me.  When I lifted off and
> got the spark back, it obviously ignited the unburnt petrol/air in the
> exhaust, because 15 feet of yellow flame shot out of my tail pipe, up his
> bonnet and across his windscreen.  He did an emergency stop.  I carried 
> on,
> and never saw him in my mirror again.  I got home ok, and didn't stop
> grinning all the way!
>
> I didn't do it on purpose, but what a way to discourage tailgating!
>
> Jim


You do know that 15 foot flames are bad for the catalytic converter, 
s?   -:)

Whilst perusing Usenet on Fri, 15 Jun 2007 13:27:17 +0100, I read
these words from "trailx"  :
>
>You do know that 15 foot flames are bad for the catalytic converter, 
>s?   -:) 

A 'cat' on a Rover P4 ???

-- jjj

"Josiah Jenkins"  wrote in message 
news:12m573pdnhqcs5dqpj8msad0iqa512v1ql@4ax.com...
> Whilst perusing Usenet on Fri, 15 Jun 2007 13:27:17 +0100, I read
> these words from "trailx"  :
>>
>>You do know that 15 foot flames are bad for the catalytic converter,
>>s?   -:)
>
> A 'cat' on a Rover P4 ???



Welll.....it was meant as a joke....but.......

The Original Anti-Theft Device - Lucas Electrics
If Lucas made guns, wars would not start

I don't think we can blame Lucas for this one, as they don't exist any
more!. My son's Spitfire rotor arm failed (it looked OK) and we replaced the
Electronic Ignition Module, coil and dizzie cap first before we discovered
it was the rotor arm. I don't know who makes them nowadays, but Bill will
know!

Nowadays I replace these frequently if I get a misfire!

Read all the latest Lucas Jokes after a quick Google on

http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1255562

ken

Ken Forrest wrote:

> I don't think we can blame Lucas for this one, as they don't exist any
> more!. My son's Spitfire rotor arm failed (it looked OK) and we replaced the
> Electronic Ignition Module, coil and dizzie cap first before we discovered
> it was the rotor arm. I don't know who makes them nowadays, but Bill will
> know!
> 
> Nowadays I replace these frequently if I get a misfire!
> 



How does a rotor fail when its only an arm across some plastic.

On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 09:39:27 +1000, Rob  wrote:

>Ken Forrest wrote:
>
>> I don't think we can blame Lucas for this one, as they don't exist any
>> more!. My son's Spitfire rotor arm failed (it looked OK) and we replaced the
>> Electronic Ignition Module, coil and dizzie cap first before we discovered
>> it was the rotor arm. I don't know who makes them nowadays, but Bill will
>> know!
>> 
>> Nowadays I replace these frequently if I get a misfire!
>
>How does a rotor fail when its only an arm across some plastic.

You didn't live through the age of electromechanical ignition systems,
did you?

On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 09:39:27 +1000, Rob  wrote:

>Ken Forrest wrote:
>
>> I don't think we can blame Lucas for this one, as they don't exist any
>> more!. My son's Spitfire rotor arm failed (it looked OK) and we replaced the
>> Electronic Ignition Module, coil and dizzie cap first before we discovered
>> it was the rotor arm. I don't know who makes them nowadays, but Bill will
>> know!
>> 
>> Nowadays I replace these frequently if I get a misfire!
>> 
>
>
>
>How does a rotor fail when its only an arm across some plastic.

The one on my car failed when the locating key bit in the plastic that
goes over the shaft broke off leaving the rotor arm to not turn
properly. It took about an hour in a car park to work that one out!
--
http://www.101club.org 
The 101 Forward Control Club and Register

Dean Dark wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 09:39:27 +1000, Rob  wrote:
> 
> 
>>Ken Forrest wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I don't think we can blame Lucas for this one, as they don't exist any
>>>more!. My son's Spitfire rotor arm failed (it looked OK) and we replaced the
>>>Electronic Ignition Module, coil and dizzie cap first before we discovered
>>>it was the rotor arm. I don't know who makes them nowadays, but Bill will
>>>know!
>>>
>>>Nowadays I replace these frequently if I get a misfire!
>>
>>How does a rotor fail when its only an arm across some plastic.
> 
> 
> You didn't live through the age of electromechanical ignition systems,
> did you?

yes

Tom Woods wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 09:39:27 +1000, Rob  wrote:
> 
> 
>>Ken Forrest wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I don't think we can blame Lucas for this one, as they don't exist any
>>>more!. My son's Spitfire rotor arm failed (it looked OK) and we replaced the
>>>Electronic Ignition Module, coil and dizzie cap first before we discovered
>>>it was the rotor arm. I don't know who makes them nowadays, but Bill will
>>>know!
>>>
>>>Nowadays I replace these frequently if I get a misfire!
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>How does a rotor fail when its only an arm across some plastic.
> 
> 
> The one on my car failed when the locating key bit in the plastic that
> goes over the shaft broke off leaving the rotor arm to not turn
> properly. It took about an hour in a car park to work that one out!
> --
> http://www.101club.org 
> The 101 Forward Control Club and Register 

OK

One of normal sequence of events which I do, when a car stops and won't 
start.

Check fuel
Check spark
Check Rotor moving
Check timing to see if the rotor is approximately in the correct position.

Reckon you will check next time :)

r

"Rob"  wrote in message
news:466f2eb1$1_7@news.peopletelecom.com.au...
> Ken Forrest wrote:
>
> > I don't think we can blame Lucas for this one, as they don't exist
any
> > more!. My son's Spitfire rotor arm failed (it looked OK) and we
replaced the
> > Electronic Ignition Module, coil and dizzie cap first before we
discovered
> > it was the rotor arm. I don't know who makes them nowadays, but
Bill will
> > know!
> >
> > Nowadays I replace these frequently if I get a misfire!
> >
>
>
>
> How does a rotor fail when its only an arm across some plastic.

There are two common modes of failure. Either the plastic breaks down
as an insulator between the brass arm and the shaft or the arm becomes
loose on the plastic moulding. Lucus  rotor arms are being cloned in
the rice eating areas, and they tend to use unsuitable materials. Some
have a rivet holding  the arm on that also fails. My Austin Healey
3000 uses the same 6 pot distibutor as the Landrover 2.6 slant head
engine and until I found an original rotor (via a Landrover spares
place) I had no end of trouble.

AWEM

Rob wrote:

> How does a rotor fail when its only an arm across some plastic.

1. Rotor tip burns away, preventing spark jumping to cap segment.
2. Rotor centre burns away preventing current reaching rotor.
3. Rotor centre wears a hole, so brush conducts to earth.
4. Tracking occurs from metal part to shaft along dirt, causing 
             permanent damage.
4. Keyed drive breaks, loosing timing.
5. If rotor has metal spring, it fatigue fractures.

I think most of those who tinkered with cars of a certain age will have 
seen some of those problems. I know I certainly have!

Chris

-- 
Remove prejudice to reply.

The message <bIMbi.5535$P57.1142@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net>
from Chris Whelan  contains these words:

> I think most of those who tinkered with cars of a certain age will have 
> seen some of those problems. I know I certainly have!

I saw an Audi 80 saw through its own distributor from the inside. The
advance-retard mechanism had fallen apart and had scraped away the
housing till it all fell apart.

-- 
Skipweasel
We have always been at war with Iran. [George Orwell - almost]

Guy King wrote:
> The message <bIMbi.5535$P57.1142@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net>
> from Chris Whelan  contains these words:
> 
>> I think most of those who tinkered with cars of a certain age will have 
>> seen some of those problems. I know I certainly have!
> 
> I saw an Audi 80 saw through its own distributor from the inside. The
> advance-retard mechanism had fallen apart and had scraped away the
> housing till it all fell apart.

Vorsprung durch technik!

At least it should have been an easy fault to find ;-)

Chris.

"Rob"  wrote in message 
news:466f2eb1$1_7@news.peopletelecom.com.au...

> How does a rotor fail when its only an arm across some plastic.

The plastic fails to insulate.


-- 
Chris, West Cork, Ireland.
Ignoti nulla cupido

On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:59:12 +1000, Rob  wrote:

>OK
>
>One of normal sequence of events which I do, when a car stops and won't 
>start.
>
>Check fuel
>Check spark
>Check Rotor moving
>Check timing to see if the rotor is approximately in the correct position.
>
>Reckon you will check next time :)

Yeah, my diagnosing skills have improved since then after spending a
few years driving proper cars ;) (and i now carry a complete spare
ignition system!)
I also check the springy contact bit in the centre of the dissy cap
since i have also had one of them fall apart and that took some effort
to find!

--
http://www.101club.org 
The 101 Forward Control Club and Register

Tom Woods wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:59:12 +1000, Rob  wrote:
> 
>> OK
>>
>> One of normal sequence of events which I do, when a car stops and won't 
>> start.
>>
>> Check fuel
>> Check spark
>> Check Rotor moving
>> Check timing to see if the rotor is approximately in the correct position.
>>
>> Reckon you will check next time :)
> 
> Yeah, my diagnosing skills have improved since then after spending a
> few years driving proper cars ;) (and i now carry a complete spare
> ignition system!)
> I also check the springy contact bit in the centre of the dissy cap
> since i have also had one of them fall apart and that took some effort
> to find!
> 
My temporary cure for that one is to find a smoker. The foil inside a 
pack of ciggies works for a day or two, IME. Long enough to get 
somewhere civilised, at any rate:-)

HTH

Tciao for Now!

John.
(Driving possibly the most bodged & rusty Landie in Stoke)

"John Williamson"  wrote in message
news:f4om56$rdg$3@stable.tornevall.net...
> Tom Woods wrote:
> > On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:59:12 +1000, Rob  wrote:
> >
> >> OK
> >>
> >> One of normal sequence of events which I do, when a car stops and won't
> >> start.
> >>
> >> Check fuel
> >> Check spark
> >> Check Rotor moving
> >> Check timing to see if the rotor is approximately in the correct
position.
> >>
> >> Reckon you will check next time :)
> >
> > Yeah, my diagnosing skills have improved since then after spending a
> > few years driving proper cars ;) (and i now carry a complete spare
> > ignition system!)
> > I also check the springy contact bit in the centre of the dissy cap
> > since i have also had one of them fall apart and that took some effort
> > to find!
> >
> My temporary cure for that one is to find a smoker. The foil inside a
> pack of ciggies works for a day or two, IME. Long enough to get
> somewhere civilised, at any rate:-)
>

Other uses for the foil inside a fag packet - wrap around a blown cartridge
fuse (strictly to get you home, of course, although I did sort of
accidentally leave one in place for a year or so) and laid over the battery
terminal when the female connector is just too loose to make good contact.

You will understand that this is the sole reason I continue my
two-packs-a-day habit.  The sacrifices we make to run our old cars....

Geoff MacK
19?? Victa S150
1966 E-Type Roadster
1974 Ducati 750GT
2005 bus pass

Geoff Mackenzie wrote:
> "John Williamson"  wrote in message
> news:f4om56$rdg$3@stable.tornevall.net...
>> Tom Woods wrote:
>>> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:59:12 +1000, Rob  wrote:
>>>
>>>> OK
>>>>
>>>> One of normal sequence of events which I do, when a car stops and won't
>>>> start.
>>>>
>>>> Check fuel
>>>> Check spark
>>>> Check Rotor moving
>>>> Check timing to see if the rotor is approximately in the correct
> position.
>>>> Reckon you will check next time :)
>>> Yeah, my diagnosing skills have improved since then after spending a
>>> few years driving proper cars ;) (and i now carry a complete spare
>>> ignition system!)
>>> I also check the springy contact bit in the centre of the dissy cap
>>> since i have also had one of them fall apart and that took some effort
>>> to find!
>>>
>> My temporary cure for that one is to find a smoker. The foil inside a
>> pack of ciggies works for a day or two, IME. Long enough to get
>> somewhere civilised, at any rate:-)
>>
> 
> Other uses for the foil inside a fag packet - wrap around a blown cartridge
> fuse (strictly to get you home, of course, although I did sort of
> accidentally leave one in place for a year or so) and laid over the battery
> terminal when the female connector is just too loose to make good contact.
> 
> You will understand that this is the sole reason I continue my
> two-packs-a-day habit.  The sacrifices we make to run our old cars....
> 
>
ROFL!
I'd forgotten about the fuse one:-)
<Nips out to check the fuse box>
Mined ewe, I use matchsticks or splinters off whatever wood's about for 
loose battery terminals.

Tciao for Now!

John.

On or around Wed, 13 Jun 2007 08:04:28 +0100, "Andrew Mawson"
 enlightened us thusly:

>There are two common modes of failure. Either the plastic breaks down
>as an insulator between the brass arm and the shaft 

I've had one do that - took ages to diagnose it, never having had one
before.
-- 
Austin Shackles.  www.ddol-las.net  my opinions are just that
Travel The Galaxy!  Meet Fascinating Life Forms...
------------------------------------------------\   
   >>  http://www.schlockmercenary.com/  <<      \  ...and Kill them.
a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too!

"John Williamson"  wrote in message
news:f4opkd$u9s$1@stable.tornevall.net...
> Geoff Mackenzie wrote:
> > "John Williamson"  wrote in message
> > news:f4om56$rdg$3@stable.tornevall.net...
> >> Tom Woods wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:59:12 +1000, Rob  wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> OK
> >>>>
> >>>> One of normal sequence of events which I do, when a car stops and
won't
> >>>> start.
> >>>>
> >>>> Check fuel
> >>>> Check spark
> >>>> Check Rotor moving
> >>>> Check timing to see if the rotor is approximately in the correct
> > position.
> >>>> Reckon you will check next time :)
> >>> Yeah, my diagnosing skills have improved since then after spending a
> >>> few years driving proper cars ;) (and i now carry a complete spare
> >>> ignition system!)
> >>> I also check the springy contact bit in the centre of the dissy cap
> >>> since i have also had one of them fall apart and that took some effort
> >>> to find!
> >>>
> >> My temporary cure for that one is to find a smoker. The foil inside a
> >> pack of ciggies works for a day or two, IME. Long enough to get
> >> somewhere civilised, at any rate:-)
> >>
> >
> > Other uses for the foil inside a fag packet - wrap around a blown
cartridge
> > fuse (strictly to get you home, of course, although I did sort of
> > accidentally leave one in place for a year or so) and laid over the
battery
> > terminal when the female connector is just too loose to make good
contact.
> >
> > You will understand that this is the sole reason I continue my
> > two-packs-a-day habit.  The sacrifices we make to run our old cars....
> >
> >
> ROFL!
> I'd forgotten about the fuse one:-)
> <Nips out to check the fuse box>
> Mined ewe, I use matchsticks or splinters off whatever wood's about for
> loose battery terminals.
>
> Tciao for Now!


What?  O Level Physics (failed) tells me wood does not transmit this
electric stuff.  A two-inch nail and big hammer must be a better bet.
Although I do recall that whacking too hard causes the top of the battery to
fall in.

Geoff MacK

Geoff Mackenzie wrote:
> "John Williamson"  wrote in message
> news:f4opkd$u9s$1@stable.tornevall.net...
>> Geoff Mackenzie wrote:
>>> "John Williamson"  wrote in message
>>> news:f4om56$rdg$3@stable.tornevall.net...
>>>> Tom Woods wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:59:12 +1000, Rob  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> OK
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One of normal sequence of events which I do, when a car stops and
> won't
>>>>>> start.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check fuel
>>>>>> Check spark
>>>>>> Check Rotor moving
>>>>>> Check timing to see if the rotor is approximately in the correct
>>> position.
>>>>>> Reckon you will check next time :)
>>>>> Yeah, my diagnosing skills have improved since then after spending a
>>>>> few years driving proper cars ;) (and i now carry a complete spare
>>>>> ignition system!)
>>>>> I also check the springy contact bit in the centre of the dissy cap
>>>>> since i have also had one of them fall apart and that took some effort
>>>>> to find!
>>>>>
>>>> My temporary cure for that one is to find a smoker. The foil inside a
>>>> pack of ciggies works for a day or two, IME. Long enough to get
>>>> somewhere civilised, at any rate:-)
>>>>
>>> Other uses for the foil inside a fag packet - wrap around a blown
> cartridge
>>> fuse (strictly to get you home, of course, although I did sort of
>>> accidentally leave one in place for a year or so) and laid over the
> battery
>>> terminal when the female connector is just too loose to make good
> contact.
>>> You will understand that this is the sole reason I continue my
>>> two-packs-a-day habit.  The sacrifices we make to run our old cars....
>>>
>>>
>> ROFL!
>> I'd forgotten about the fuse one:-)
>> <Nips out to check the fuse box>
>> Mined ewe, I use matchsticks or splinters off whatever wood's about for
>> loose battery terminals.
>>
>> Tciao for Now!
> 
> 
> What?  O Level Physics (failed) tells me wood does not transmit this
> electric stuff.  A two-inch nail and big hammer must be a better bet.
> Although I do recall that whacking too hard causes the top of the battery to
> fall in.
> 
It doesn't, but the space it takes up makes it possible to get a decent 
grip on the terminal, which makes for a halfway decent connection:-)
HTH:-)
If it's in bad enough condition you've got to bodge it like that, the 
bastteries not long for this world anyway, so the fact that the contact 
area's reduced a bit doesn't matter too much.

Tciao for Now!

John.

This is a common problem recently, poor quality rotor arms sold under
Intermotor name, we suspect that the Lucas ones sold by Halfords are made by
the same manufacturer.
Not unknown to have two or three fail in a day.
The insulation in the plastic breaks down, you can even detect this using a
multimeter.
Solution is to get some real old stock ones from the days when they were
made properly. I got some from an ex MOD source.
Barry

"Cerumen"  wrote in message 
news:f4od49$f8d$2@reader01.news.esat.net...
>
> "Rob"  wrote in message 
> news:466f2eb1$1_7@news.peopletelecom.com.au...
>
>> How does a rotor fail when its only an arm across some plastic.
>
> The plastic fails to insulate.
>
>
> -- 
> Chris, West Cork, Ireland.
> Ignoti nulla cupido
>

"Rob"  wrote in message 
news:466f4f72_2@news.peopletelecom.com.au...
> Tom Woods wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 09:39:27 +1000, Rob  wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Ken Forrest wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I don't think we can blame Lucas for this one, as they don't exist any
>>>>more!. My son's Spitfire rotor arm failed (it looked OK) and we replaced 
>>>>the
>>>>Electronic Ignition Module, coil and dizzie cap first before we 
>>>>discovered
>>>>it was the rotor arm. I don't know who makes them nowadays, but Bill 
>>>>will
>>>>know!
>>>>
>>>>Nowadays I replace these frequently if I get a misfire!
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>How does a rotor fail when its only an arm across some plastic.
>>
>>
>> The one on my car failed when the locating key bit in the plastic that
>> goes over the shaft broke off leaving the rotor arm to not turn
>> properly. It took about an hour in a car park to work that one out!
>> --
>> http://www.101club.org The 101 Forward Control Club and Register
>
> OK
>
> One of normal sequence of events which I do, when a car stops and won't 
> start.
>
> Check fuel
> Check spark
> Check Rotor moving
> Check timing to see if the rotor is approximately in the correct position.
>
> Reckon you will check next time :)<


Once lost the spark far from home and too poor to have breakdown cover. 
Spent four dirty and miserable hours before I finally changed the ( newish) 
condenser in an act of desperation - and then found that the LT lead had 
broken inside the braided cloth sheath

Mentally filed that away for future times - but the years passed away  and 
dissies went with them.  Now I can't fix the computerised buggers anyway, so 
I've given up worrying.

trailx  wrote in message
news:5ddn94F3428ekU1@mid.individual.net...
>
>
> Once lost the spark far from home and too poor to have breakdown cover.
> Spent four dirty and miserable hours before I finally changed the (
newish)
> condenser in an act of desperation - and then found that the LT lead had
> broken inside the braided cloth sheath
>
<grins>
That reminds me of an interesting journey with a dud condenser many years
ago.

I was driving a Rover P4 late at night, and with just over 100 miles to go I
started to get spark problems accompanied by a lot of engine speed
interference on the radio and I worked out that the condenser had gone open
circuit.  If I used only a little throttle (less than a quarter) the engine
ran.  If I used too much, the weak spark wouldn't fire it - so effectively
the engine cut out until I lifted off.  I didn't have a spare condenser with
me, but I decided the car would get me home if I was careful.

It wasn't too bad - on the flat with overdrive on I could get around 50mph,
downhill perhaps 55mph.  But uphill, it was 3rd gear and about 25mph.  There
wasn't much traffic around at that time of night so I was managing OK -
until some clown came up behind me!

This was at the time of the temporary blanket 50mph speed limit, and he
wanted to drive at exactly 50mph.  So if I got above 50, I made some space,
and if I dropped below 50 he sat a foot from my back bumper.  It was a
winding road with lots of double white lines, and he made no attempt to
pass, just tailgated me to let me know I was going too slow for him.  Then I
came to a short steep downhill followed by a longer gentler uphill, and I
tried to use the steep bit to get some momentum for the uphill.  I got some,
but gave it too much throttle and the engine cut out.  By the time I lifted
off to get the power back, he was right behind me.  When I lifted off and
got the spark back, it obviously ignited the unburnt petrol/air in the
exhaust, because 15 feet of yellow flame shot out of my tail pipe, up his
bonnet and across his windscreen.  He did an emergency stop.  I carried on,
and never saw him in my mirror again.  I got home ok, and didn't stop
grinning all the way!

I didn't do it on purpose, but what a way to discourage tailgating!

Jim

Jim Warren wrote:

> trailx  wrote in message
> news:5ddn94F3428ekU1@mid.individual.net...
> 
>>
>>Once lost the spark far from home and too poor to have breakdown cover.
>>Spent four dirty and miserable hours before I finally changed the (
> 
> newish)
> 
>>condenser in an act of desperation - and then found that the LT lead had
>>broken inside the braided cloth sheath
>>
> 
> <grins>
>
> off to get the power back, he was right behind me.  When I lifted off and
> got the spark back, it obviously ignited the unburnt petrol/air in the
> exhaust, because 15 feet of yellow flame shot out of my tail pipe, up his
> bonnet and across his windscreen.  

> I didn't do it on purpose, but what a way to discourage tailgating!
> 
> Jim
> 
> 
But now, that you have it worked out, have the direct petrol injection 
into the exhaust system, waiting for that bugger to come along again.

r

"Jim Warren"  wrote in message 
news:uMpci.5310$p8.262@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> trailx  wrote in message
> news:5ddn94F3428ekU1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>>
>> Once lost the spark far from home and too poor to have breakdown cover.
>> Spent four dirty and miserable hours before I finally changed the (
> newish)
>> condenser in an act of desperation - and then found that the LT lead had
>> broken inside the braided cloth sheath
>>
> <grins>
> That reminds me of an interesting journey with a dud condenser many years
> ago.
>
> I was driving a Rover P4 late at night, and with just over 100 miles to go 
> I
> started to get spark problems accompanied by a lot of engine speed
> interference on the radio and I worked out that the condenser had gone 
> open
> circuit.  If I used only a little throttle (less than a quarter) the 
> engine
> ran.  If I used too much, the weak spark wouldn't fire it - so effectively
> the engine cut out until I lifted off.  I didn't have a spare condenser 
> with
> me, but I decided the car would get me home if I was careful.
>
> It wasn't too bad - on the flat with overdrive on I could get around 
> 50mph,
> downhill perhaps 55mph.  But uphill, it was 3rd gear and about 25mph. 
> There
> wasn't much traffic around at that time of night so I was managing OK -
> until some clown came up behind me!
>
> This was at the time of the temporary blanket 50mph speed limit, and he
> wanted to drive at exactly 50mph.  So if I got above 50, I made some 
> space,
> and if I dropped below 50 he sat a foot from my back bumper.  It was a
> winding road with lots of double white lines, and he made no attempt to
> pass, just tailgated me to let me know I was going too slow for him.  Then 
> I
> came to a short steep downhill followed by a longer gentler uphill, and I
> tried to use the steep bit to get some momentum for the uphill.  I got 
> some,
> but gave it too much throttle and the engine cut out.  By the time I 
> lifted
> off to get the power back, he was right behind me.  When I lifted off and
> got the spark back, it obviously ignited the unburnt petrol/air in the
> exhaust, because 15 feet of yellow flame shot out of my tail pipe, up his
> bonnet and across his windscreen.  He did an emergency stop.  I carried 
> on,
> and never saw him in my mirror again.  I got home ok, and didn't stop
> grinning all the way!
>
> I didn't do it on purpose, but what a way to discourage tailgating!
>
> Jim


You do know that 15 foot flames are bad for the catalytic converter, 
s?   -:)

Whilst perusing Usenet on Fri, 15 Jun 2007 13:27:17 +0100, I read
these words from "trailx"  :
>
>You do know that 15 foot flames are bad for the catalytic converter, 
>s?   -:) 

A 'cat' on a Rover P4 ???

-- jjj

"Josiah Jenkins"  wrote in message 
news:12m573pdnhqcs5dqpj8msad0iqa512v1ql@4ax.com...
> Whilst perusing Usenet on Fri, 15 Jun 2007 13:27:17 +0100, I read
> these words from "trailx"  :
>>
>>You do know that 15 foot flames are bad for the catalytic converter,
>>s?   -:)
>
> A 'cat' on a Rover P4 ???



Welll.....it was meant as a joke....but.......

The Original Anti-Theft Device - Lucas Electrics
If Lucas made guns, wars would not start

I don't think we can blame Lucas for this one, as they don't exist any
more!. My son's Spitfire rotor arm failed (it looked OK) and we replaced the
Electronic Ignition Module, coil and dizzie cap first before we discovered
it was the rotor arm. I don't know who makes them nowadays, but Bill will
know!

Nowadays I replace these frequently if I get a misfire!

Read all the latest Lucas Jokes after a quick Google on

http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1255562

ken

Ken Forrest wrote:

> I don't think we can blame Lucas for this one, as they don't exist any
> more!. My son's Spitfire rotor arm failed (it looked OK) and we replaced the
> Electronic Ignition Module, coil and dizzie cap first before we discovered
> it was the rotor arm. I don't know who makes them nowadays, but Bill will
> know!
> 
> Nowadays I replace these frequently if I get a misfire!
> 



How does a rotor fail when its only an arm across some plastic.

On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 09:39:27 +1000, Rob  wrote:

>Ken Forrest wrote:
>
>> I don't think we can blame Lucas for this one, as they don't exist any
>> more!. My son's Spitfire rotor arm failed (it looked OK) and we replaced the
>> Electronic Ignition Module, coil and dizzie cap first before we discovered
>> it was the rotor arm. I don't know who makes them nowadays, but Bill will
>> know!
>> 
>> Nowadays I replace these frequently if I get a misfire!
>
>How does a rotor fail when its only an arm across some plastic.

You didn't live through the age of electromechanical ignition systems,
did you?

On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 09:39:27 +1000, Rob  wrote:

>Ken Forrest wrote:
>
>> I don't think we can blame Lucas for this one, as they don't exist any
>> more!. My son's Spitfire rotor arm failed (it looked OK) and we replaced the
>> Electronic Ignition Module, coil and dizzie cap first before we discovered
>> it was the rotor arm. I don't know who makes them nowadays, but Bill will
>> know!
>> 
>> Nowadays I replace these frequently if I get a misfire!
>> 
>
>
>
>How does a rotor fail when its only an arm across some plastic.

The one on my car failed when the locating key bit in the plastic that
goes over the shaft broke off leaving the rotor arm to not turn
properly. It took about an hour in a car park to work that one out!
--
http://www.101club.org 
The 101 Forward Control Club and Register

Dean Dark wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 09:39:27 +1000, Rob  wrote:
> 
> 
>>Ken Forrest wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I don't think we can blame Lucas for this one, as they don't exist any
>>>more!. My son's Spitfire rotor arm failed (it looked OK) and we replaced the
>>>Electronic Ignition Module, coil and dizzie cap first before we discovered
>>>it was the rotor arm. I don't know who makes them nowadays, but Bill will
>>>know!
>>>
>>>Nowadays I replace these frequently if I get a misfire!
>>
>>How does a rotor fail when its only an arm across some plastic.
> 
> 
> You didn't live through the age of electromechanical ignition systems,
> did you?

yes

Tom Woods wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 09:39:27 +1000, Rob  wrote:
> 
> 
>>Ken Forrest wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I don't think we can blame Lucas for this one, as they don't exist any
>>>more!. My son's Spitfire rotor arm failed (it looked OK) and we replaced the
>>>Electronic Ignition Module, coil and dizzie cap first before we discovered
>>>it was the rotor arm. I don't know who makes them nowadays, but Bill will
>>>know!
>>>
>>>Nowadays I replace these frequently if I get a misfire!
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>How does a rotor fail when its only an arm across some plastic.
> 
> 
> The one on my car failed when the locating key bit in the plastic that
> goes over the shaft broke off leaving the rotor arm to not turn
> properly. It took about an hour in a car park to work that one out!
> --
> http://www.101club.org 
> The 101 Forward Control Club and Register 

OK

One of normal sequence of events which I do, when a car stops and won't 
start.

Check fuel
Check spark
Check Rotor moving
Check timing to see if the rotor is approximately in the correct position.

Reckon you will check next time :)

r

"Rob"  wrote in message
news:466f2eb1$1_7@news.peopletelecom.com.au...
> Ken Forrest wrote:
>
> > I don't think we can blame Lucas for this one, as they don't exist
any
> > more!. My son's Spitfire rotor arm failed (it looked OK) and we
replaced the
> > Electronic Ignition Module, coil and dizzie cap first before we
discovered
> > it was the rotor arm. I don't know who makes them nowadays, but
Bill will
> > know!
> >
> > Nowadays I replace these frequently if I get a misfire!
> >
>
>
>
> How does a rotor fail when its only an arm across some plastic.

There are two common modes of failure. Either the plastic breaks down
as an insulator between the brass arm and the shaft or the arm becomes
loose on the plastic moulding. Lucus  rotor arms are being cloned in
the rice eating areas, and they tend to use unsuitable materials. Some
have a rivet holding  the arm on that also fails. My Austin Healey
3000 uses the same 6 pot distibutor as the Landrover 2.6 slant head
engine and until I found an original rotor (via a Landrover spares
place) I had no end of trouble.

AWEM

Rob wrote:

> How does a rotor fail when its only an arm across some plastic.

1. Rotor tip burns away, preventing spark jumping to cap segment.
2. Rotor centre burns away preventing current reaching rotor.
3. Rotor centre wears a hole, so brush conducts to earth.
4. Tracking occurs from metal part to shaft along dirt, causing 
             permanent damage.
4. Keyed drive breaks, loosing timing.
5. If rotor has metal spring, it fatigue fractures.

I think most of those who tinkered with cars of a certain age will have 
seen some of those problems. I know I certainly have!

Chris

-- 
Remove prejudice to reply.

The message <bIMbi.5535$P57.1142@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net>
from Chris Whelan  contains these words:

> I think most of those who tinkered with cars of a certain age will have 
> seen some of those problems. I know I certainly have!

I saw an Audi 80 saw through its own distributor from the inside. The
advance-retard mechanism had fallen apart and had scraped away the
housing till it all fell apart.

-- 
Skipweasel
We have always been at war with Iran. [George Orwell - almost]

Guy King wrote:
> The message <bIMbi.5535$P57.1142@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net>
> from Chris Whelan  contains these words:
> 
>> I think most of those who tinkered with cars of a certain age will have 
>> seen some of those problems. I know I certainly have!
> 
> I saw an Audi 80 saw through its own distributor from the inside. The
> advance-retard mechanism had fallen apart and had scraped away the
> housing till it all fell apart.

Vorsprung durch technik!

At least it should have been an easy fault to find ;-)

Chris.

"Rob"  wrote in message 
news:466f2eb1$1_7@news.peopletelecom.com.au...

> How does a rotor fail when its only an arm across some plastic.

The plastic fails to insulate.


-- 
Chris, West Cork, Ireland.
Ignoti nulla cupido

On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:59:12 +1000, Rob  wrote:

>OK
>
>One of normal sequence of events which I do, when a car stops and won't 
>start.
>
>Check fuel
>Check spark
>Check Rotor moving
>Check timing to see if the rotor is approximately in the correct position.
>
>Reckon you will check next time :)

Yeah, my diagnosing skills have improved since then after spending a
few years driving proper cars ;) (and i now carry a complete spare
ignition system!)
I also check the springy contact bit in the centre of the dissy cap
since i have also had one of them fall apart and that took some effort
to find!

--
http://www.101club.org 
The 101 Forward Control Club and Register

Tom Woods wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:59:12 +1000, Rob  wrote:
> 
>> OK
>>
>> One of normal sequence of events which I do, when a car stops and won't 
>> start.
>>
>> Check fuel
>> Check spark
>> Check Rotor moving
>> Check timing to see if the rotor is approximately in the correct position.
>>
>> Reckon you will check next time :)
> 
> Yeah, my diagnosing skills have improved since then after spending a
> few years driving proper cars ;) (and i now carry a complete spare
> ignition system!)
> I also check the springy contact bit in the centre of the dissy cap
> since i have also had one of them fall apart and that took some effort
> to find!
> 
My temporary cure for that one is to find a smoker. The foil inside a 
pack of ciggies works for a day or two, IME. Long enough to get 
somewhere civilised, at any rate:-)

HTH

Tciao for Now!

John.
(Driving possibly the most bodged & rusty Landie in Stoke)

"John Williamson"  wrote in message
news:f4om56$rdg$3@stable.tornevall.net...
> Tom Woods wrote:
> > On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:59:12 +1000, Rob  wrote:
> >
> >> OK
> >>
> >> One of normal sequence of events which I do, when a car stops and won't
> >> start.
> >>
> >> Check fuel
> >> Check spark
> >> Check Rotor moving
> >> Check timing to see if the rotor is approximately in the correct
position.
> >>
> >> Reckon you will check next time :)
> >
> > Yeah, my diagnosing skills have improved since then after spending a
> > few years driving proper cars ;) (and i now carry a complete spare
> > ignition system!)
> > I also check the springy contact bit in the centre of the dissy cap
> > since i have also had one of them fall apart and that took some effort
> > to find!
> >
> My temporary cure for that one is to find a smoker. The foil inside a
> pack of ciggies works for a day or two, IME. Long enough to get
> somewhere civilised, at any rate:-)
>

Other uses for the foil inside a fag packet - wrap around a blown cartridge
fuse (strictly to get you home, of course, although I did sort of
accidentally leave one in place for a year or so) and laid over the battery
terminal when the female connector is just too loose to make good contact.

You will understand that this is the sole reason I continue my
two-packs-a-day habit.  The sacrifices we make to run our old cars....

Geoff MacK
19?? Victa S150
1966 E-Type Roadster
1974 Ducati 750GT
2005 bus pass

Geoff Mackenzie wrote:
> "John Williamson"  wrote in message
> news:f4om56$rdg$3@stable.tornevall.net...
>> Tom Woods wrote:
>>> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:59:12 +1000, Rob  wrote:
>>>
>>>> OK
>>>>
>>>> One of normal sequence of events which I do, when a car stops and won't
>>>> start.
>>>>
>>>> Check fuel
>>>> Check spark
>>>> Check Rotor moving
>>>> Check timing to see if the rotor is approximately in the correct
> position.
>>>> Reckon you will check next time :)
>>> Yeah, my diagnosing skills have improved since then after spending a
>>> few years driving proper cars ;) (and i now carry a complete spare
>>> ignition system!)
>>> I also check the springy contact bit in the centre of the dissy cap
>>> since i have also had one of them fall apart and that took some effort
>>> to find!
>>>
>> My temporary cure for that one is to find a smoker. The foil inside a
>> pack of ciggies works for a day or two, IME. Long enough to get
>> somewhere civilised, at any rate:-)
>>
> 
> Other uses for the foil inside a fag packet - wrap around a blown cartridge
> fuse (strictly to get you home, of course, although I did sort of
> accidentally leave one in place for a year or so) and laid over the battery
> terminal when the female connector is just too loose to make good contact.
> 
> You will understand that this is the sole reason I continue my
> two-packs-a-day habit.  The sacrifices we make to run our old cars....
> 
>
ROFL!
I'd forgotten about the fuse one:-)
<Nips out to check the fuse box>
Mined ewe, I use matchsticks or splinters off whatever wood's about for 
loose battery terminals.

Tciao for Now!

John.

On or around Wed, 13 Jun 2007 08:04:28 +0100, "Andrew Mawson"
 enlightened us thusly:

>There are two common modes of failure. Either the plastic breaks down
>as an insulator between the brass arm and the shaft 

I've had one do that - took ages to diagnose it, never having had one
before.
-- 
Austin Shackles.  www.ddol-las.net  my opinions are just that
Travel The Galaxy!  Meet Fascinating Life Forms...
------------------------------------------------\   
   >>  http://www.schlockmercenary.com/  <<      \  ...and Kill them.
a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too!

"John Williamson"  wrote in message
news:f4opkd$u9s$1@stable.tornevall.net...
> Geoff Mackenzie wrote:
> > "John Williamson"  wrote in message
> > news:f4om56$rdg$3@stable.tornevall.net...
> >> Tom Woods wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:59:12 +1000, Rob  wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> OK
> >>>>
> >>>> One of normal sequence of events which I do, when a car stops and
won't
> >>>> start.
> >>>>
> >>>> Check fuel
> >>>> Check spark
> >>>> Check Rotor moving
> >>>> Check timing to see if the rotor is approximately in the correct
> > position.
> >>>> Reckon you will check next time :)
> >>> Yeah, my diagnosing skills have improved since then after spending a
> >>> few years driving proper cars ;) (and i now carry a complete spare
> >>> ignition system!)
> >>> I also check the springy contact bit in the centre of the dissy cap
> >>> since i have also had one of them fall apart and that took some effort
> >>> to find!
> >>>
> >> My temporary cure for that one is to find a smoker. The foil inside a
> >> pack of ciggies works for a day or two, IME. Long enough to get
> >> somewhere civilised, at any rate:-)
> >>
> >
> > Other uses for the foil inside a fag packet - wrap around a blown
cartridge
> > fuse (strictly to get you home, of course, although I did sort of
> > accidentally leave one in place for a year or so) and laid over the
battery
> > terminal when the female connector is just too loose to make good
contact.
> >
> > You will understand that this is the sole reason I continue my
> > two-packs-a-day habit.  The sacrifices we make to run our old cars....
> >
> >
> ROFL!
> I'd forgotten about the fuse one:-)
> <Nips out to check the fuse box>
> Mined ewe, I use matchsticks or splinters off whatever wood's about for
> loose battery terminals.
>
> Tciao for Now!


What?  O Level Physics (failed) tells me wood does not transmit this
electric stuff.  A two-inch nail and big hammer must be a better bet.
Although I do recall that whacking too hard causes the top of the battery to
fall in.

Geoff MacK

Geoff Mackenzie wrote:
> "John Williamson"  wrote in message
> news:f4opkd$u9s$1@stable.tornevall.net...
>> Geoff Mackenzie wrote:
>>> "John Williamson"  wrote in message
>>> news:f4om56$rdg$3@stable.tornevall.net...
>>>> Tom Woods wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:59:12 +1000, Rob  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> OK
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One of normal sequence of events which I do, when a car stops and
> won't
>>>>>> start.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check fuel
>>>>>> Check spark
>>>>>> Check Rotor moving
>>>>>> Check timing to see if the rotor is approximately in the correct
>>> position.
>>>>>> Reckon you will check next time :)
>>>>> Yeah, my diagnosing skills have improved since then after spending a
>>>>> few years driving proper cars ;) (and i now carry a complete spare
>>>>> ignition system!)
>>>>> I also check the springy contact bit in the centre of the dissy cap
>>>>> since i have also had one of them fall apart and that took some effort
>>>>> to find!
>>>>>
>>>> My temporary cure for that one is to find a smoker. The foil inside a
>>>> pack of ciggies works for a day or two, IME. Long enough to get
>>>> somewhere civilised, at any rate:-)
>>>>
>>> Other uses for the foil inside a fag packet - wrap around a blown
> cartridge
>>> fuse (strictly to get you home, of course, although I did sort of
>>> accidentally leave one in place for a year or so) and laid over the
> battery
>>> terminal when the female connector is just too loose to make good
> contact.
>>> You will understand that this is the sole reason I continue my
>>> two-packs-a-day habit.  The sacrifices we make to run our old cars....
>>>
>>>
>> ROFL!
>> I'd forgotten about the fuse one:-)
>> <Nips out to check the fuse box>
>> Mined ewe, I use matchsticks or splinters off whatever wood's about for
>> loose battery terminals.
>>
>> Tciao for Now!
> 
> 
> What?  O Level Physics (failed) tells me wood does not transmit this
> electric stuff.  A two-inch nail and big hammer must be a better bet.
> Although I do recall that whacking too hard causes the top of the battery to
> fall in.
> 
It doesn't, but the space it takes up makes it possible to get a decent 
grip on the terminal, which makes for a halfway decent connection:-)
HTH:-)
If it's in bad enough condition you've got to bodge it like that, the 
bastteries not long for this world anyway, so the fact that the contact 
area's reduced a bit doesn't matter too much.

Tciao for Now!

John.

This is a common problem recently, poor quality rotor arms sold under
Intermotor name, we suspect that the Lucas ones sold by Halfords are made by
the same manufacturer.
Not unknown to have two or three fail in a day.
The insulation in the plastic breaks down, you can even detect this using a
multimeter.
Solution is to get some real old stock ones from the days when they were
made properly. I got some from an ex MOD source.
Barry

"Cerumen"  wrote in message 
news:f4od49$f8d$2@reader01.news.esat.net...
>
> "Rob"  wrote in message 
> news:466f2eb1$1_7@news.peopletelecom.com.au...
>
>> How does a rotor fail when its only an arm across some plastic.
>
> The plastic fails to insulate.
>
>
> -- 
> Chris, West Cork, Ireland.
> Ignoti nulla cupido
>

"Rob"  wrote in message 
news:466f4f72_2@news.peopletelecom.com.au...
> Tom Woods wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 09:39:27 +1000, Rob  wrote:
>>
>>
>&g