Hi peeps,[1] how's things?

I'm looking for some good information on Ishtar. Anyone have
suggestions for books, websites (hmm) or other sources, or any
personal experience they would be prepared to relate/discuss? 

[1] not 'poops' as I first triped. ;-)


-- 
"...Nothing worth saying is inoffensive to everyone.
 
You do not have a right to be ring-fenced from offence..."

In article ,
 Halla  wrote:

<snip>

> I'm looking for some good information on Ishtar. Anyone have
> suggestions for books, websites (hmm) or other sources, or any
> personal experience they would be prepared to relate/discuss?

You might also want to check Ashera, Ashtoreth and Astarte.

Blessed be,
Baird

-- 
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.  In practice 
there is.  -Yogi Berra

Baird Stafford wrote:
> In article ,
>  Halla  wrote:
> 
> <snip>
> 
>> I'm looking for some good information on Ishtar. Anyone have
>> suggestions for books, websites (hmm) or other sources, or any
>> personal experience they would be prepared to relate/discuss?
> 
> You might also want to check Ashera, Ashtoreth and Astarte.
> 
> Blessed be,
> Baird
> 
She was depicted on the prow of Phoenician ships pointing forward with 
one hand and carrying across in the other.

FFF
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff

From Baird Stafford :

>In article ,
> Halla  wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> I'm looking for some good information on Ishtar. Anyone have
>> suggestions for books, websites (hmm) or other sources, or any
>> personal experience they would be prepared to relate/discuss?
>
>You might also want to check Ashera, Ashtoreth and Astarte.

Hmmm, yes and no. :-) 


-- 
"...Nothing worth saying is inoffensive to everyone.
 
You do not have a right to be ring-fenced from offence..."

From Dirk Bruere at NeoPax :

>Baird Stafford wrote:
>> In article ,
>>  Halla  wrote:
>> 
>> <snip>
>> 
>>> I'm looking for some good information on Ishtar. Anyone have
>>> suggestions for books, websites (hmm) or other sources, or any
>>> personal experience they would be prepared to relate/discuss?
>> 
>> You might also want to check Ashera, Ashtoreth and Astarte.
>> 
>> Blessed be,
>> Baird
>> 
>She was depicted on the prow of Phoenician ships pointing forward with 
>one hand and carrying across in the other.

Coo. Any particular sort? 


-- 
"...Nothing worth saying is inoffensive to everyone.
 
You do not have a right to be ring-fenced from offence..."

On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 11:38:07 +0100, Halla
 wrote:

>Hi peeps,[1] how's things?
>
>I'm looking for some good information on Ishtar. Anyone have
>suggestions for books, websites (hmm) or other sources, or any
>personal experience they would be prepared to relate/discuss? 

There's a really good book on the excavation of her temple at Nineveh
in the 1930s but I can't recall the authors (one spot of googling
later) Campell Thompson and Hamilton. Listed here under Mesopotamia.

http://www.britishmuseum.org/the_museum/departments/middle_east/reading_list.aspx

It was one of my Grandfather's books, part of his biblical studies
collection.

This is interesting, suggestion that the name may be a derivation of
Nina.

http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Nineveh

>[1] not 'poops' as I first triped. ;-)

-- 
Lady Nina

Halla wrote:
> From Dirk Bruere at NeoPax :
> 
>> Baird Stafford wrote:
>>> In article ,
>>>  Halla  wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>> I'm looking for some good information on Ishtar. Anyone have
>>>> suggestions for books, websites (hmm) or other sources, or any
>>>> personal experience they would be prepared to relate/discuss?
>>> You might also want to check Ashera, Ashtoreth and Astarte.
>>>
>>> Blessed be,
>>> Baird
>>>
>> She was depicted on the prow of Phoenician ships pointing forward with 
>> one hand and carrying across in the other.
> 
> Coo. Any particular sort? 

Not sure.
Probably ankh

FFF
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff

On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 00:09:35 +0100, Halla
 wrote:

>From Baird Stafford :
>
>>In article ,
>> Halla  wrote:
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>> I'm looking for some good information on Ishtar. Anyone have
>>> suggestions for books, websites (hmm) or other sources, or any
>>> personal experience they would be prepared to relate/discuss?
>>
>>You might also want to check Ashera, Ashtoreth and Astarte.
>
>Hmmm, yes and no. :-) 

And don't forget Isis.

There's a lot of interesting stuff on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishtar

(er, you weren't asking about the Dustin Hoffman film instead, were
you?)

-- 
Mike Hubbard <*>
Propaganda (n): 1.A district attorney who likes nature religions.
2. Stop a male goose falling over. 3. Have a real look at something.
Zen spam blocker active - there isn't one, but it looks like there is. So leave the NOSPAM in.

Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
> Halla wrote:
>> From Dirk Bruere at NeoPax :
>>
>>> Baird Stafford wrote:
>>>> In article ,
>>>>  Halla  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>>> I'm looking for some good information on Ishtar. Anyone have
>>>>> suggestions for books, websites (hmm) or other sources, or any
>>>>> personal experience they would be prepared to relate/discuss?
>>>> You might also want to check Ashera, Ashtoreth and Astarte.
>>>>
>>>> Blessed be,
>>>> Baird
>>>>
>>> She was depicted on the prow of Phoenician ships pointing forward 
>>> with one hand and carrying across in the other.
>>
>> Coo. Any particular sort? 
> 
> Not sure.
> Probably ankh

http://tinyurl.com/nmt7ug

and

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=berytus

"In her left hand is the aplustrum; and her right hand holds a staff as 
tall as the figure, and terminating in a cross, her particular symbol. A 
column close to her left hand is surmounted by a figure of Victory, 
which offers to her a garland or crown. Her left foot placed on the 
ship's prow. "

FFF
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff

Baird Stafford  wrote:

> In article ,
>  Halla  wrote:
> 
> <snip>
> 
> > I'm looking for some good information on Ishtar. Anyone have
> > suggestions for books, websites (hmm) or other sources, or any
> > personal experience they would be prepared to relate/discuss?
> 
> You might also want to check Ashera, Ashtoreth and Astarte.

But even more, Inanna.

They were separated by a good many years, but plenty scholars regard
them as essentially identical. Which can't be said of Asherah, either
Ugaritic or Hebrew.
-- 
<http://www.decohen.com>
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address.
Mail to the From address is never read.

In article <1j6f0el.l25rg71ewqzn2N%dcohenspam@talktalk.net>,
 dcohenspam@talktalk.net (Daniel Cohen) wrote:

<snip>

> Which can't be said of Asherah, either Ugaritic or Hebrew.

But from what I can discover, cognate none the less.

Blessed be, 
Baird

-- 
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.  In practice 
there is.  -Yogi Berra

Baird Stafford  wrote:

> In article <1j6f0el.l25rg71ewqzn2N%dcohenspam@talktalk.net>,
>  dcohenspam@talktalk.net (Daniel Cohen) wrote:
> 
> <snip>
> 
> > Which can't be said of Asherah, either Ugaritic or Hebrew.
> 
> But from what I can discover, cognate none the less.

Perhaps very distantly. Not close enough for any of the many books on
Asherah to devote much space to a connection.

-- 
<http://www.decohen.com>
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address.
Mail to the From address is never read.

From Mike Hubbard :

>On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 00:09:35 +0100, Halla
> wrote:
>
>>From Baird Stafford :
>>
>>>In article ,
>>> Halla  wrote:
>>>
>>><snip>
>>>
>>>> I'm looking for some good information on Ishtar. Anyone have
>>>> suggestions for books, websites (hmm) or other sources, or any
>>>> personal experience they would be prepared to relate/discuss?
>>>
>>>You might also want to check Ashera, Ashtoreth and Astarte.
>>
>>Hmmm, yes and no. :-) 
>
>And don't forget Isis.

Well no. Ishtar. Many beings and things have many names, apart from
noting the connection at the moment I'd like to read about Ishtar.

>
>There's a lot of interesting stuff on Wikipedia:
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishtar
>
>(er, you weren't asking about the Dustin Hoffman film instead, were
>you?)

The what? Safe to say, no. ;-)



-- 
"...Nothing worth saying is inoffensive to everyone.
 
You do not have a right to be ring-fenced from offence..."

From Dirk Bruere at NeoPax :

>Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
>> Halla wrote:
>>> From Dirk Bruere at NeoPax :
>>>
>>>> Baird Stafford wrote:
>>>>> In article ,
>>>>>  Halla  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm looking for some good information on Ishtar. Anyone have
>>>>>> suggestions for books, websites (hmm) or other sources, or any
>>>>>> personal experience they would be prepared to relate/discuss?
>>>>> You might also want to check Ashera, Ashtoreth and Astarte.
>>>>>
>>>>> Blessed be,
>>>>> Baird
>>>>>
>>>> She was depicted on the prow of Phoenician ships pointing forward 
>>>> with one hand and carrying across in the other.
>>>
>>> Coo. Any particular sort? 
>> 
>> Not sure.
>> Probably ankh
>
>http://tinyurl.com/nmt7ug
>
>and
>
>http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=berytus
>
>"In her left hand is the aplustrum; and her right hand holds a staff as 
>tall as the figure, and terminating in a cross, her particular symbol. A 
>column close to her left hand is surmounted by a figure of Victory, 
>which offers to her a garland or crown. Her left foot placed on the 
>ship's prow. "

That's Astarte. Thank you though.

This is an interesting exercise: Is it possible now to seperate out
one of the major goddesses from the others? Has time lumped them
together inextricably?


-- 
"...Nothing worth saying is inoffensive to everyone.
 
You do not have a right to be ring-fenced from offence..."

In article ,
 Halla  wrote:

<snip>

> This is an interesting exercise: Is it possible now to seperate out
> one of the major goddesses from the others? Has time lumped them
> together inextricably?

When I wrote that one of the goddesses I mentioned appeared to be 
cognate with others, I was looking at time going the other way.  
"Cognate" means that somewhere in the distant past there is a culture 
that worshipped the first of the goddesses with a name more or less like 
the one you're looking for and having more or less the same kinds of 
aspects, portfolios and so on.  As that culture grew and divided, and as 
it influenced other cultures, the basic idea of such a goddess continued 
- even though the name and capabilities were adapted to fit her new 
worshippers.  

Just as a f'rinstance, the Hindu pantheon appears to be closer to the 
root of a series of cognate pantheons worshipped by Greeks, Romans, and 
the Germanic peoples - but not to the pantheons of the Fertile Crescent, 
Egypt or the Far East (or, oddly enough, the Etruscans).

In other words, I wasn't looking at how time has "lumped them together" 
- I was trying to suggest that because the goddesses I name are regarded 
by scholars whose works I've read as more or less cognate with or having 
an origin in common with Ishtar, information about them might help cast 
light on Ishtar Herself.  That's why I suggested you might *also* 
consider them - rather than trying to state the suggestion in such a 
manner as to suggest that any of them are identical with any of the 
others.  They aren't.

Blessed be,
Baird

-- 
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.  In practice 
there is.  -Yogi Berra

Halla  wrote:

> 
> Well no. Ishtar. Many beings and things have many names, apart from
> noting the connection at the moment I'd like to read about Ishtar.

There's a children's illustrated book "Ishtar and Tammuz" by Christopher
Moore and Christina Balit. Simplified, but ok, and lovely illustrations.

And, of course, the Gilgamesh story, of which there is a particularly
good modern translation.

-- 
<http://www.decohen.com>
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address.
Mail to the From address is never read.

Halla wrote:
> From Dirk Bruere at NeoPax :
> 
>> Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
>>> Halla wrote:
>>>> From Dirk Bruere at NeoPax :
>>>>
>>>>> Baird Stafford wrote:
>>>>>> In article ,
>>>>>>  Halla  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm looking for some good information on Ishtar. Anyone have
>>>>>>> suggestions for books, websites (hmm) or other sources, or any
>>>>>>> personal experience they would be prepared to relate/discuss?
>>>>>> You might also want to check Ashera, Ashtoreth and Astarte.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Blessed be,
>>>>>> Baird
>>>>>>
>>>>> She was depicted on the prow of Phoenician ships pointing forward 
>>>>> with one hand and carrying across in the other.
>>>> Coo. Any particular sort? 
>>> Not sure.
>>> Probably ankh
>> http://tinyurl.com/nmt7ug
>>
>> and
>>
>> http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=berytus
>>
>> "In her left hand is the aplustrum; and her right hand holds a staff as 
>> tall as the figure, and terminating in a cross, her particular symbol. A 
>> column close to her left hand is surmounted by a figure of Victory, 
>> which offers to her a garland or crown. Her left foot placed on the 
>> ship's prow. "
> 
> That's Astarte. Thank you though.
> 
> This is an interesting exercise: Is it possible now to seperate out
> one of the major goddesses from the others? Has time lumped them
> together inextricably?

You are making the assumption that Gods are distinct entities with 
relatively distinct characteristics that do not change or evolve.
Even with Asatru, we have Odin, Wotan and Wodens and that's just over a 
few short centuries. Another thousand years and they would have been 
seen as clearly distinct.

FFF
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff

Halla wrote:
> From Mike Hubbard :
> 
>> On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 00:09:35 +0100, Halla
>>  wrote:
>>
>> >From Baird Stafford :
>>>> In article ,
>>>> Halla  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>>> I'm looking for some good information on Ishtar. Anyone have
>>>>> suggestions for books, websites (hmm) or other sources, or any
>>>>> personal experience they would be prepared to relate/discuss?
>>>> You might also want to check Ashera, Ashtoreth and Astarte.
>>> Hmmm, yes and no. :-) 
>> And don't forget Isis.
> 
> Well no. Ishtar. Many beings and things have many names, apart from
> noting the connection at the moment I'd like to read about Ishtar.
> 
>> There's a lot of interesting stuff on Wikipedia:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishtar

Also, in case you didn't know, her symbol is the 8 pointed star which is 
the symbol for Venus before it became the pentacle.
The latter because Venus traces out five points in the sky throughout 
the year. Also probably from the time when people thought the morning 
and evening star were not the same.

FFF
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff

Halla wrote:
> From Dirk Bruere at NeoPax :
> 
>> Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
>>> Halla wrote:
>>>> From Dirk Bruere at NeoPax :
>>>>
>>>>> Baird Stafford wrote:
>>>>>> In article ,
>>>>>>  Halla  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm looking for some good information on Ishtar. Anyone have
>>>>>>> suggestions for books, websites (hmm) or other sources, or any
>>>>>>> personal experience they would be prepared to relate/discuss?
>>>>>> You might also want to check Ashera, Ashtoreth and Astarte.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Blessed be,
>>>>>> Baird
>>>>>>
>>>>> She was depicted on the prow of Phoenician ships pointing forward 
>>>>> with one hand and carrying across in the other.
>>>> Coo. Any particular sort? 
>>> Not sure.
>>> Probably ankh
>> http://tinyurl.com/nmt7ug
>>
>> and
>>
>> http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=berytus
>>
>> "In her left hand is the aplustrum; and her right hand holds a staff as 
>> tall as the figure, and terminating in a cross, her particular symbol. A 
>> column close to her left hand is surmounted by a figure of Victory, 
>> which offers to her a garland or crown. Her left foot placed on the 
>> ship's prow. "
> 
> That's Astarte. Thank you though.
> 
> This is an interesting exercise: Is it possible now to seperate out
> one of the major goddesses from the others? Has time lumped them
> together inextricably?
> 
> 
http://www.sacred-texts.com/ane/eog/eog08.htm

FFF
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff