On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 02:38:48 +0100, Gid Holyoake
 blethered:

>In article , Halla 
>generously decided to share with us..
>
>Snippetry..
>
>> In which case I think it'd be fair to say that most people who say
>> they are scared of Islam do not understand Islam.
>
>Ermm.. no.. not really..

How is what I've said wrong?

>
>You see, you are conflating two different things.. there is the 
>following of the religious teachings of Islam, which is one thing, and 
>there is the ideology of Islam which is different.. 

How does that affect the statement 'it'd be fair to say that most
people who say they are scared of Islam do not understand Islam'? I
have no doubt that the religion and ideology are different things, but
I wasn't really talking about that at all. 

>
>Both are available from reading the "divine text" in exactly the same 
>way that far right 'merkin christians can read from the bible that 
>killing faggots is fine by god and people who have abortions are child 
>killers..

Riiiight... 

>
>The problem with the "ideology" of Islam is that it states quite 
>clearly that democracy of any sort has no place within it.. there is no 
>idea (as comes from Christian teaching along the lines of "render unto 
>caesar that which is caesar's") that the state in which it is being 
>perpetrated has any greater jurisdiction..
>
>That is why the *ideology* of Islam is so dangerous.. it is akin to the 
>radical Jews who actually believe they have a god-given right to rule 
>the entire earth, no matter what anyone else thinks..
>
>Personally I reckon we should just build a big wall arounf the middle-
>east, chuck them all back in and then negotiate with whoever comes out 
>on top in the end..
>
>Mind you, I had similar views on the "Northern Ireland Conflict"..

I can imagine. <g>


-- 
Bring on the wonder, we got it all wrong
We pushed you down deep in our souls for too long

Halla wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 02:38:48 +0100, Gid Holyoake
>  blethered:
> 
>> In article , Halla 
>> generously decided to share with us..
>>
>> Snippetry..
>>
>>> In which case I think it'd be fair to say that most people who say
>>> they are scared of Islam do not understand Islam.
>> Ermm.. no.. not really..
> 
> How is what I've said wrong?
> 
>> You see, you are conflating two different things.. there is the 
>> following of the religious teachings of Islam, which is one thing, and 
>> there is the ideology of Islam which is different.. 
> 
> How does that affect the statement 'it'd be fair to say that most
> people who say they are scared of Islam do not understand Islam'? I
> have no doubt that the religion and ideology are different things, but
> I wasn't really talking about that at all. 

Your statement may well be true.
The real question is whether they are right to be scared, irrespective 
of their state of knowledge.

FFF
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff

On Fri, 08 Aug 2008 23:59:00 +0100, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
 blethered:

>Halla wrote:
>> On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 02:38:48 +0100, Gid Holyoake
>>  blethered:
>> 
>>> In article , Halla 
>>> generously decided to share with us..
>>>
>>> Snippetry..
>>>
>>>> In which case I think it'd be fair to say that most people who say
>>>> they are scared of Islam do not understand Islam.
>>> Ermm.. no.. not really..
>> 
>> How is what I've said wrong?
>> 
>>> You see, you are conflating two different things.. there is the 
>>> following of the religious teachings of Islam, which is one thing, and 
>>> there is the ideology of Islam which is different.. 
>> 
>> How does that affect the statement 'it'd be fair to say that most
>> people who say they are scared of Islam do not understand Islam'? I
>> have no doubt that the religion and ideology are different things, but
>> I wasn't really talking about that at all. 
>
>Your statement may well be true.
>The real question is whether they are right to be scared, irrespective 
>of their state of knowledge.

Aha, no - you said that those who were most scared *did* understand, I
was examining that statement and nothing else. Whether or not to be
scared of an entire religion/ideology is a wider subject. Personally
they all scare me. <shrugs> Once people get organised and start with
the 'thou shalt' and 'thou shalt not' they can come up with some very
odd ideas.


-- 
Bring on the wonder, we got it all wrong
We pushed you down deep in our souls for too long