Random tired brain thought: it struck me the other day that the sort
of person who has a tendency to pick a god or goddess to follow also
has a tendency to try and go for the less well-known ones. Is this so
they can explain who their god is? What happens if they meet someone
else who has chosen the same deity?

More seriously though, outside of a formal group or coven situation,
how does one approach worhsipping the same named deity (or aspect of
deity) as a friend, loved one or new acquaintance? It feels like there
could be problems with it, but I can't think why.


-- 
Henceforth I ask not good fortune. I myself am good fortune.
 -Elizabeth Watson

On 4 May, 01:00, Halla  wrote:

> Random tired brain thought: it struck me the other day that the sort
> of person who has a tendency to pick a god or goddess to follow also
> has a tendency to try and go for the less well-known ones. Is this so
> they can explain who their god is? What happens if they meet someone
> else who has chosen the same deity?

I have absolutely no idea as I didn't get much option in who I got.
*grins* I s'pose it depends on whether they chose the deity because
they have a lot in common, or because they just see/saw the fluffier/
darker aspects of said deity.

> More seriously though, outside of a formal group or coven situation,
> how does one approach worhsipping the same named deity (or aspect of
> deity) as a friend, loved one or new acquaintance? It feels like there
> could be problems with it, but I can't think why.

Ummm... I'm lost, why would there be problems (other than the person
who picks a deity because they think no-one in the whole wide world
will EVER know who it is and so they do get to do the whole "let me
explain it all to you" stuff)?

--
trin
Btw, I've probably asked this before, but can someone who's using a
decent newsreader and not Ggroups let me know if Ggroups in putting
the sig. sep. in properly please.

On Mon, 5 May 2008 15:33:40 -0700 (PDT), trin
 blethered:

>On 4 May, 01:00, Halla  wrote:
>
>> Random tired brain thought: it struck me the other day that the sort
>> of person who has a tendency to pick a god or goddess to follow also
>> has a tendency to try and go for the less well-known ones. Is this so
>> they can explain who their god is? What happens if they meet someone
>> else who has chosen the same deity?
>
>I have absolutely no idea as I didn't get much option in who I got.
>*grins* 

I live in fear of such a thing happening to me. ;-) And may I just say
- TRIN! <hugs>

>I s'pose it depends on whether they chose the deity because
>they have a lot in common, or because they just see/saw the fluffier/
>darker aspects of said deity.
>

Well, perhaps I'm being sniffy. As I understand it you didn't choose
yours, so that'd be different anyway. Plus anyone who chose your deity
because of some fluffy/dark aspects would need their head read. ;-)

>> More seriously though, outside of a formal group or coven situation,
>> how does one approach worhsipping the same named deity (or aspect of
>> deity) as a friend, loved one or new acquaintance? It feels like there
>> could be problems with it, but I can't think why.
>
>Ummm... I'm lost, why would there be problems (other than the person
>who picks a deity because they think no-one in the whole wide world
>will EVER know who it is and so they do get to do the whole "let me
>explain it all to you" stuff)?

That might be it - if I say my deity is the great and lovely Soya from
outer Turkmenistan whose followers have long worn pretty jingly
anklets (but only on their left ankles) and who demands all followers
have long flowing hair, I'm going to feel kind of embarassed if I bump
into another follower of the same deity who says that anklets are for
the *right* ankle and hair should be short. <g> Schism ahoy, but also
it suggests either a lack of research or a relationship which is not
as close as first claimed. 

But yeah, even with a more established, more widely worhipped goddess,
say, doesn't it ever get embarassing if someone says 'well she asked
me to bring her fresh pansies' and another person goes 'No way! She
totally told me that she *hates* pansies!!!'? ;-)


-- 
Henceforth I ask not good fortune. I myself am good fortune.
 -Elizabeth Watson

"Halla"  wrote in message
news:d67v145rrcl3q5fl8vdhqadb1huu9u8pr5@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 5 May 2008 15:33:40 -0700 (PDT), trin
>  blethered:
>
> >On 4 May, 01:00, Halla  wrote:
> >
> >> Random tired brain thought: it struck me the other day that the sort
> >> of person who has a tendency to pick a god or goddess to follow also
> >> has a tendency to try and go for the less well-known ones. Is this so
> >> they can explain who their god is? What happens if they meet someone
> >> else who has chosen the same deity?
> >
> >I have absolutely no idea as I didn't get much option in who I got.
> >*grins*
>
> I live in fear of such a thing happening to me. ;-) And may I just say
> - TRIN! <hugs>
>
> >I s'pose it depends on whether they chose the deity because
> >they have a lot in common, or because they just see/saw the fluffier/
> >darker aspects of said deity.
> >
>
> Well, perhaps I'm being sniffy. As I understand it you didn't choose
> yours, so that'd be different anyway. Plus anyone who chose your deity
> because of some fluffy/dark aspects would need their head read. ;-)
>
> >> More seriously though, outside of a formal group or coven situation,
> >> how does one approach worhsipping the same named deity (or aspect of
> >> deity) as a friend, loved one or new acquaintance? It feels like there
> >> could be problems with it, but I can't think why.
> >
> >Ummm... I'm lost, why would there be problems (other than the person
> >who picks a deity because they think no-one in the whole wide world
> >will EVER know who it is and so they do get to do the whole "let me
> >explain it all to you" stuff)?
>
> That might be it - if I say my deity is the great and lovely Soya from
> outer Turkmenistan whose followers have long worn pretty jingly
> anklets (but only on their left ankles) and who demands all followers
> have long flowing hair, I'm going to feel kind of embarassed if I bump
> into another follower of the same deity who says that anklets are for
> the *right* ankle and hair should be short. <g> Schism ahoy, but also
> it suggests either a lack of research or a relationship which is not
> as close as first claimed.
>
> But yeah, even with a more established, more widely worhipped goddess,
> say, doesn't it ever get embarassing if someone says 'well she asked
> me to bring her fresh pansies' and another person goes 'No way! She
> totally told me that she *hates* pansies!!!'? ;-)

Horses for courses IME.
I have found dealing with spirits/deities etc to be experiential in a very
personal way. There can be many similarities of experience which provide
over time an overview of said spirit/deity which makes them identifiable,
but (again IME) they can have tasks for one person that may not be the same
as those they give to another  - this is all assuming that there is some
communication going on and not guesswork or bookreading. Which leads us
neatly into my area of interest at the mo - mental health and spirit/deity
communication.

Jo

Jo B wrote:
> "Halla"  wrote in message
> news:d67v145rrcl3q5fl8vdhqadb1huu9u8pr5@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 5 May 2008 15:33:40 -0700 (PDT), trin
>>  blethered:
>>
>>> On 4 May, 01:00, Halla  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Random tired brain thought: it struck me the other day that the
>>>> sort of person who has a tendency to pick a god or goddess to
>>>> follow also has a tendency to try and go for the less well-known
>>>> ones. Is this so they can explain who their god is? What happens
>>>> if they meet someone else who has chosen the same deity?

<snip>

> Horses for courses IME.
> I have found dealing with spirits/deities etc to be experiential in a
> very personal way. There can be many similarities of experience which
> provide over time an overview of said spirit/deity which makes them
> identifiable, but (again IME) they can have tasks for one person that
> may not be the same as those they give to another  - this is all
> assuming that there is some communication going on and not guesswork
> or bookreading. Which leads us neatly into my area of interest at the
> mo - mental health and spirit/deity communication.

The same thing interests me. My borther in law was diagnosed with 
schizophrenia and one of his main symptoms was that he 'just knew' that God 
was talking to him (and, naturally, he talked back to God and did "God's" 
bidding). And it got me to thinking, exactly how different is my BIL's 
experience with "God" that got him put into the psych ward and heavily 
medicated to the Bible Thumping Christian type that prays to God all the 
time and gets 'answers' but is considered a an upright citizen worth of 
admiration? Just a matter of degree? Or of the actions based on the 
'directions' of 'God' (ie, doing 'charitable deeds' versus trying to kill 
someone)

And, just for the fun of it, does the "God Spot" in the brain help explain 
any of these phenomena? Those who had a belief in *something* tended to 
experience that 'something' when their Godspot was stimulated. Hmmmmm....

Its almost like religion is a mild and endemic form of schizophrenia, and 
those with schizophrenia were unlucky enough to get an extra dose, and those 
staunch athiests missed out entirely.

Yowie

On Wed, 7 May 2008 13:29:11 +1000, "Yowie"
 wrote:

> And it got me to thinking, exactly how different is my BIL's 
>experience with "God" that got him put into the psych ward and heavily 
>medicated to the Bible Thumping Christian type that prays to God all the 
>time and gets 'answers' but is considered a an upright citizen worth of 
>admiration? Just a matter of degree? Or of the actions based on the 
>'directions' of 'God' (ie, doing 'charitable deeds' versus trying to kill 
>someone)

... Just trying, and failing, to resist a comment along the lines of
"So your BIL does charitable deeds, then" ....

-- 

Wood Avens

"Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth
should that mean that it is not real?"

spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @

Wood Avens wrote:
> On Wed, 7 May 2008 13:29:11 +1000, "Yowie"
>  wrote:
>
>> And it got me to thinking, exactly how different is my BIL's
>> experience with "God" that got him put into the psych ward and
>> heavily medicated to the Bible Thumping Christian type that prays to
>> God all the time and gets 'answers' but is considered a an upright
>> citizen worth of admiration? Just a matter of degree? Or of the
>> actions based on the 'directions' of 'God' (ie, doing 'charitable
>> deeds' versus trying to kill someone)
>
> ... Just trying, and failing, to resist a comment along the lines of
> "So your BIL does charitable deeds, then" ....

Point taken.... :-)

His pathology was such that he was convinced that God had sent him to 
cleanse this part of Australia by fire.... and he was quite sure (whilst he 
remained untreated) that the 1998 Sydney bushfires were all his doing on 
God's behalf. *He* thought he was doing charitable deeds by creating the 
fires (which of course, he didn't, he was in detox when most started) but 
his concept of 'doing good' and 'doing evil' were severely warped at the 
time.

It was at that time where I could fully understand why people believe in 
possession. Whilst psychotic, his voice, mannerisms, accent, and even his 
face changed when he (thought he) was "God's Fist" so to speak. It really 
did appear that there was a completely different person occupying his body. 
It was... creepy.

Yowie

"Yowie"  wrote in message
news:68d8phF2qpfa3U1@mid.individual.net...
> Wood Avens wrote:
> > On Wed, 7 May 2008 13:29:11 +1000, "Yowie"
> >  wrote:
> >
> >> And it got me to thinking, exactly how different is my BIL's
> >> experience with "God" that got him put into the psych ward and
> >> heavily medicated to the Bible Thumping Christian type that prays to
> >> God all the time and gets 'answers' but is considered a an upright
> >> citizen worth of admiration? Just a matter of degree? Or of the
> >> actions based on the 'directions' of 'God' (ie, doing 'charitable
> >> deeds' versus trying to kill someone)
> >
> > ... Just trying, and failing, to resist a comment along the lines of
> > "So your BIL does charitable deeds, then" ....
>
> Point taken.... :-)
>
> His pathology was such that he was convinced that God had sent him to
> cleanse this part of Australia by fire.... and he was quite sure (whilst
he
> remained untreated) that the 1998 Sydney bushfires were all his doing on
> God's behalf. *He* thought he was doing charitable deeds by creating the
> fires (which of course, he didn't, he was in detox when most started) but
> his concept of 'doing good' and 'doing evil' were severely warped at the
> time.
>
> It was at that time where I could fully understand why people believe in
> possession. Whilst psychotic, his voice, mannerisms, accent, and even his
> face changed when he (thought he) was "God's Fist" so to speak. It really
> did appear that there was a completely different person occupying his
body.
> It was... creepy.
>
> Yowie

Its gone from the BBC iplayer thing but there was a programme on BBC2 last
week called "Am I Normal?" which looks at various aspects of mental health
within the general population. Last weeks was about spirituality and mental
ill health, so of course I was fascinated. If you can get hold of it
somewhere its worth a look. Neuroscience and psychopathology are not my
areas of understanding so I would have no idea about the 'Godspot' being a
factor or otherwise. I know that there continues to be a great deal of
controversy surrounding schizophrenia and the diagnosis of psychotic
illnesses but thats about all. My skills and training so far are in offering
counselling/listening support whilst not getting bogged down in diagnostics.

Jo

Yowie wrote:
> 
> Its almost like religion is a mild and endemic form of schizophrenia, and 
> those with schizophrenia were unlucky enough to get an extra dose, and those 
> staunch athiests missed out entirely.
> 
> Yowie 
> 

You might be interested in Romme and Escher's work, which led to the 
development of the Hearing Voices network. They've worked with people 
who interpret voices in many ways, including attributing them to deity

L

"Halla"  wrote in message 
news:lvup14tsi43p6o0jklhodvqhavnkpplpgf@4ax.com...
> Random tired brain thought: it struck me the other day that the sort
> of person who has a tendency to pick a god or goddess to follow also
> has a tendency to try and go for the less well-known ones. Is this so
> they can explain who their god is? What happens if they meet someone
> else who has chosen the same deity?
>
> More seriously though, outside of a formal group or coven situation,
> how does one approach worhsipping the same named deity (or aspect of
> deity) as a friend, loved one or new acquaintance? It feels like there
> could be problems with it, but I can't think why.
>
Do we choose our dieties or do they choose us?

flower of romance wrote:

> Do we choose our dieties or do they choose us?

Dunno about anyone else, but I can tell you now, I got no say in the
matter AT ALL!

<g>

--
trin

flower of romance wrote:
> Do we choose our dieties or do they choose us?

Dunno about anyone else, but I can tell you now, I got no say in the
matter AT ALL!

<g>

--
trin

wrote in message
news:c02e3e10-397c-4af6-9237-ec68bff40065@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> flower of romance wrote:
>
> > Do we choose our dieties or do they choose us?
>
> Dunno about anyone else, but I can tell you now, I got no say in the
> matter AT ALL!
>
> <g>
>

Tell me about it, I've tried to shake mine off but she has clung to my life
so tightly I'm virtually her avatar by now.

I wanted one of the classier gods too.
--
Rhiannon_s
I am me, this is now, we are here!

rhiannon s wrote:
> NO HE DIDN'T, IT WAS ME, HONEST! wrote:
> > flower of romance wrote:

> > > Do we choose our dieties or do they choose us?

We're doing really well y'know - not a one of us has made a food joke
yet.

O: )

> Tell me about it, I've tried to shake mine off but she has clung to my life
> so tightly I'm virtually her avatar by now.

The user pics of the gods, eh. You must be Intergodweb famous by now.

> I wanted one of the classier gods too.

Eris IS classy... or is that just in relation to mine? ;)

--
trin

On Thu, 08 May 2008 00:31:41 GMT, "flower of romance"
 blethered:

>
>"Halla"  wrote in message 
>news:lvup14tsi43p6o0jklhodvqhavnkpplpgf@4ax.com...
>> Random tired brain thought: it struck me the other day that the sort
>> of person who has a tendency to pick a god or goddess to follow also
>> has a tendency to try and go for the less well-known ones. Is this so
>> they can explain who their god is? What happens if they meet someone
>> else who has chosen the same deity?
>>
>> More seriously though, outside of a formal group or coven situation,
>> how does one approach worhsipping the same named deity (or aspect of
>> deity) as a friend, loved one or new acquaintance? It feels like there
>> could be problems with it, but I can't think why.
>>
>Do we choose our dieties or do they choose us? 

There's a lot of folk out there would say they choose their deities.
Perhaps it's not a coincidence that the ones they choose tend to be,
well, pleasant and kind. <g>

There's also folk who are chosen, so it's one of those 'it depends'
questions in my opinion.


-- 
Henceforth I ask not good fortune. I myself am good fortune.
 -Elizabeth Watson

"trin"  wrote in message 
news:737c0802-ce25-4ed1-a955-2d87e727b241@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> rhiannon s wrote:
>> NO HE DIDN'T, IT WAS ME, HONEST! wrote:
>> > flower of romance wrote:
>
>> > > Do we choose our dieties or do they choose us?
>
> We're doing really well y'know - not a one of us has made a food joke
> yet.

And Bulimia's such a nice name for a goddess, an' all ....

>
> O: )
>
>> Tell me about it, I've tried to shake mine off but she has clung to my 
>> life
>> so tightly I'm virtually her avatar by now.
>
> The user pics of the gods, eh. You must be Intergodweb famous by now.
>
>> I wanted one of the classier gods too.
>
> Eris IS classy... or is that just in relation to mine? ;)

Sweetie, *everyone* is classy in relation to yours :-)

Jani

On Tue, 06 May 2008 09:38:11 GMT, "Jo B"
 blethered:

>
>"Halla"  wrote in message
>news:d67v145rrcl3q5fl8vdhqadb1huu9u8pr5@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 5 May 2008 15:33:40 -0700 (PDT), trin
>>  blethered:
<sniplet>
>> >Ummm... I'm lost, why would there be problems (other than the person
>> >who picks a deity because they think no-one in the whole wide world
>> >will EVER know who it is and so they do get to do the whole "let me
>> >explain it all to you" stuff)?
>>
>> That might be it - if I say my deity is the great and lovely Soya from
>> outer Turkmenistan whose followers have long worn pretty jingly
>> anklets (but only on their left ankles) and who demands all followers
>> have long flowing hair, I'm going to feel kind of embarassed if I bump
>> into another follower of the same deity who says that anklets are for
>> the *right* ankle and hair should be short. <g> Schism ahoy, but also
>> it suggests either a lack of research or a relationship which is not
>> as close as first claimed.
>>
>> But yeah, even with a more established, more widely worhipped goddess,
>> say, doesn't it ever get embarassing if someone says 'well she asked
>> me to bring her fresh pansies' and another person goes 'No way! She
>> totally told me that she *hates* pansies!!!'? ;-)
>
>Horses for courses IME.
>I have found dealing with spirits/deities etc to be experiential in a very
>personal way. 

So how differing do two persons experiences with the same spirit/deity
be have to be before they conclude either that they weren't dealing
with the same spirt/deity at all or that one of them is wrong?

>There can be many similarities of experience which provide
>over time an overview of said spirit/deity which makes them identifiable,
>but (again IME) they can have tasks for one person that may not be the same
>as those they give to another

Well yes, I wouldn't expect experiences like that to be like a
computer game or anything - plot driven in the extreme.

>  - this is all assuming that there is some
>communication going on and not guesswork or bookreading. Which leads us
>neatly into my area of interest at the mo - mental health and spirit/deity
>communication.
>

That sounds like a lively area. <g>


-- 
Henceforth I ask not good fortune. I myself am good fortune.
 -Elizabeth Watson

"Halla"  wrote in message
news:7t1b24hlorahv2egbcjgrqb4uahf6g7pd9@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 06 May 2008 09:38:11 GMT, "Jo B"
>  blethered:
>
> >
> >"Halla"  wrote in message
> >news:d67v145rrcl3q5fl8vdhqadb1huu9u8pr5@4ax.com...
> >> On Mon, 5 May 2008 15:33:40 -0700 (PDT), trin
> >>  blethered:
> <sniplet>
> >> >Ummm... I'm lost, why would there be problems (other than the person
> >> >who picks a deity because they think no-one in the whole wide world
> >> >will EVER know who it is and so they do get to do the whole "let me
> >> >explain it all to you" stuff)?
> >>
> >> That might be it - if I say my deity is the great and lovely Soya from
> >> outer Turkmenistan whose followers have long worn pretty jingly
> >> anklets (but only on their left ankles) and who demands all followers
> >> have long flowing hair, I'm going to feel kind of embarassed if I bump
> >> into another follower of the same deity who says that anklets are for
> >> the *right* ankle and hair should be short. <g> Schism ahoy, but also
> >> it suggests either a lack of research or a relationship which is not
> >> as close as first claimed.
> >>
> >> But yeah, even with a more established, more widely worhipped goddess,
> >> say, doesn't it ever get embarassing if someone says 'well she asked
> >> me to bring her fresh pansies' and another person goes 'No way! She
> >> totally told me that she *hates* pansies!!!'? ;-)
> >
> >Horses for courses IME.
> >I have found dealing with spirits/deities etc to be experiential in a
very
> >personal way.
>
> So how differing do two persons experiences with the same spirit/deity
> be have to be before they conclude either that they weren't dealing
> with the same spirt/deity at all or that one of them is wrong?

I've never come across someone saying another person was 'wrong'.
Spirits/deities can be funny buggers and might send someone off on a wild go
ose chase because they came along with an attitude or simply because it
seemed like thats the sort of response the human was looking for in a
spirit/deity. But maybe I've been fortunate not to have come across people
who get 'precious' about such things.

S'cuse me if I make not much sense - lack of sleep and too much college
work.

>
> >There can be many similarities of experience which provide
> >over time an overview of said spirit/deity which makes them identifiable,
> >but (again IME) they can have tasks for one person that may not be the
same
> >as those they give to another
>
> Well yes, I wouldn't expect experiences like that to be like a
> computer game or anything - plot driven in the extreme.
>
> >  - this is all assuming that there is some
> >communication going on and not guesswork or bookreading. Which leads us
> >neatly into my area of interest at the mo - mental health and
spirit/deity
> >communication.
> >
>
> That sounds like a lively area. <g>

Heh - I'm kind of interested in the fact that one of the tutors at York Uni
on the counselling MA has an interest in shamanic practices. I'm not on the
course myself (only just finishing up my diploma) but I can't wait to meet
them and chat about it. Also finding loads of references on t'internet about
spirituality and mental health - one of those weird subjects that just sort
of jumped out at me. I figure what the hell, maybe thats significant, so
I'll follow the rabbit for a while.

Jo

Halla wrote:
> Jo B blethered:
> >"Halla" wrote

> >> But yeah, even with a more established, more widely worhipped goddess,
> >> say, doesn't it ever get embarassing if someone says 'well she asked
> >> me to bring her fresh pansies' and another person goes 'No way! She
> >> totally told me that she *hates* pansies!!!'? ;-)
>
> >Horses for courses IME.
> >I have found dealing with spirits/deities etc to be experiential in a very
> >personal way.
>
> So how differing do two persons experiences with the same spirit/deity
> be have to be before they conclude either that they weren't dealing
> with the same spirt/deity at all or that one of them is wrong?

IME, as soon as one 'experiences' something that none of the others
have experienced - even more so if they think it's something they got
away from *having to* experience. For example:
http://community.livejournal.com/lokeans/165309.html me being
'punished' by Loki.

--
trin (rather amused at how adamant people got that Pagan deities just
don't go in for all that punishment stuff 'cause that's all from the
Christian Gawd, and never ever ever ever would come from any of our
lovely lot)

trin  wrote:

> rather amused at how adamant people got that Pagan deities just
> don't go in for all that punishment stuff 'cause that's all from the
> Christian Gawd, and never ever ever ever would come from any of our
> lovely lot

I looked at the thread, and was delighted to see that my dear friend
grondfic had replied to you.

What do you think *he* means by 'punishment". I think the meaning of
that could vary a lot.

You said, in Livejournal

>Right, so we all know how people say that if your God bod's making
requests of you that you don't believe in/want to do/feel strongly
against/think is entirely wrong/etc. then you obviously shouldn't do
it/it's not really your God but some nasty, horrible demon speaking/etc.

My immediate reaction to that is that I wish Abraham had taken that
attitude. I think his obedience is one of the places where things went
badly wrong.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

Daniel Cohen wrote:
> trin wrote:

> > rather amused at how adamant people got that Pagan deities just
> > don't go in for all that punishment stuff 'cause that's all from the
> > Christian Gawd, and never ever ever ever would come from any of our
> > lovely lot
>
> I looked at the thread, and was delighted to see that my dear friend
> grondfic had replied to you.

Yes, poor grondfic, who doesn't appreciate irreverence, apparently. I
was quite amused at the amount of offence taken by my use of 'God
bod.'

> What do you think *he* means by 'punishment". I think the meaning of
> that could vary a lot.

Oh he means I've gotta suffer for doing what I did (ditching a toy he
gave me, to put into the plainest terms).

> You said, in Livejournal
>
> >Right, so we all know how people say that if your God bod's making
> requests of you that you don't believe in/want to do/feel strongly
> against/think is entirely wrong/etc. then you obviously shouldn't do
> it/it's not really your God but some nasty, horrible demon speaking/etc.
>
> My immediate reaction to that is that I wish Abraham had taken that
> attitude. I think his obedience is one of the places where things went
> badly wrong.

Heh. Thing I don't get is WHY people say that if it's the same voice
as you've always heard, but it's saying something you don't like/
telling you to do something you'd rather not be doing, why is it that
all off a sudden "well it's obviously not the voice of the real god/
it's a demon/bad entity/etc."? If it's the same voice/entity/feeling
you've been communing with for all that time, WHY has it suddenly
turned bad/nasty/evil/etc. - or is it just that you weren't aware of
that side of the personality before?

--
trin

wrote in message 
news:c02e3e10-397c-4af6-9237-ec68bff40065@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> flower of romance wrote:
>
>> Do we choose our dieties or do they choose us?
>
> Dunno about anyone else, but I can tell you now, I got no say in the
> matter AT ALL!
>
> <g>

I'm not sure I did.

trin  wrote:

> Daniel Cohen wrote:

> > What do you think *he* means by 'punishment". I think the meaning of
> > that could vary a lot.
> 
> Oh he means I've gotta suffer for doing what I did (ditching a toy he
> gave me, to put into the plainest terms).

I was thinking more of the difference between "That's to teach you not
to do it again" and "I'm angry with you and just want to take it out on
you."
> 
> > You said, in Livejournal
> >
> > >Right, so we all know how people say that if your God bod's making
> > requests of you that you don't believe in/want to do/feel strongly
> > against/think is entirely wrong/etc. then you obviously shouldn't do
> > it/it's not really your God but some nasty, horrible demon speaking/etc.
> >
> > My immediate reaction to that is that I wish Abraham had taken that
> > attitude. I think his obedience is one of the places where things went
> > badly wrong.
> 
> Heh. Thing I don't get is WHY people say that if it's the same voice
> as you've always heard, but it's saying something you don't like/
> telling you to do something you'd rather not be doing, why is it that
> all off a sudden "well it's obviously not the voice of the real god/
> it's a demon/bad entity/etc."? If it's the same voice/entity/feeling
> you've been communing with for all that time, WHY has it suddenly
> turned bad/nasty/evil/etc. - or is it just that you weren't aware of
> that side of the personality before?

I suppose I would regard instructions from a deity as something of major
importance, but not necessarily as something I have to follow. Their
concerns are different from ours, and human ethics take precedence over
divine instructions. But human *convenuence* does not take precedence.

Did you have any specific examples in mind?


-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

Daniel Cohen wrote:
> trin wrote:
> > Daniel Cohen wrote:

> > > What do you think *he* means by 'punishment". I think the meaning of
> > > that could vary a lot.
>
> > Oh he means I've gotta suffer for doing what I did (ditching a toy he
> > gave me, to put into the plainest terms).
>
> I was thinking more of the difference between "That's to teach you not
> to do it again" and "I'm angry with you and just want to take it out on
> you."

I think six of one and half a dozen of the other, tbh. The way I see
it, it's very much a "it's my bed and I need to lie in it" situation,
and so his 'instruction' that I've gotta lie in it come what may is
kinda moot anyway, but his instruction that I've gotta lie in it comes
very much from (a) demonstrating consequences of actions, and (b)
spite/mailce/pissed offedness for me being so damn ungrateful in the
first place.

Ok, so it's not all quite as simple as that, but I suspect even with
as little detail as I've gone into, people may start putting two and
two together and getting four, hence it's a something I'd much rather
not be discussing in anything other than a face-to-face setting, just
in case.

> > > >Right, so we all know how people say that if your God bod's making
> > > requests of you that you don't believe in/want to do/feel strongly
> > > against/think is entirely wrong/etc. then you obviously shouldn't do
> > > it/it's not really your God but some nasty, horrible demon speaking/etc.
>
> > > My immediate reaction to that is that I wish Abraham had taken that
> > > attitude. I think his obedience is one of the places where things went
> > > badly wrong.
>
> > Heh. Thing I don't get is WHY people say that if it's the same voice
> > as you've always heard, but it's saying something you don't like/
> > telling you to do something you'd rather not be doing, why is it that
> > all off a sudden "well it's obviously not the voice of the real god/
> > it's a demon/bad entity/etc."? If it's the same voice/entity/feeling
> > you've been communing with for all that time, WHY has it suddenly
> > turned bad/nasty/evil/etc. - or is it just that you weren't aware of
> > that side of the personality before?
>
> I suppose I would regard instructions from a deity as something of major
> importance, but not necessarily as something I have to follow. Their
> concerns are different from ours, and human ethics take precedence over
> divine instructions. But human *convenuence* does not take precedence.
>
> Did you have any specific examples in mind?

I didn't no, it's just a something that I've come across a lot in my
various wanderings around various pagany type places on-line, and it
just outright puzzles me.

--
trin

On Sun, 11 May 2008 09:48:25 -0700 (PDT), trin
 blethered:

>Halla wrote:
>> Jo B blethered:
>> >"Halla" wrote
>
>> >> But yeah, even with a more established, more widely worhipped goddess,
>> >> say, doesn't it ever get embarassing if someone says 'well she asked
>> >> me to bring her fresh pansies' and another person goes 'No way! She
>> >> totally told me that she *hates* pansies!!!'? ;-)
>>
>> >Horses for courses IME.
>> >I have found dealing with spirits/deities etc to be experiential in a very
>> >personal way.
>>
>> So how differing do two persons experiences with the same spirit/deity
>> be have to be before they conclude either that they weren't dealing
>> with the same spirt/deity at all or that one of them is wrong?
>
>IME, as soon as one 'experiences' something that none of the others
>have experienced - even more so if they think it's something they got
>away from *having to* experience. For example:
>http://community.livejournal.com/lokeans/165309.html me being
>'punished' by Loki.

From what I read of that there seemed to be some puzzled people. 

>
>--
>trin (rather amused at how adamant people got that Pagan deities just
>don't go in for all that punishment stuff 'cause that's all from the
>Christian Gawd, and never ever ever ever would come from any of our
>lovely lot)

*blink* You what?


-- 
Summer without flowers,
kine without milk,
women without modesty,
men without valour;
captives without a king,
woods without mast,
sea without produce
- (Ó Cuív 37)