On Jul 22, 7:19 pm, "Damian J. Anderson"
 wrote:

> Just because something evolved
> does not mean it was not created.

   THAT is precisely what it means:

There is NO SINGLE THING in existence
which is not an evolution of previous things.

Just ... please don't throw in things which DO NOT
EXIST (like God, angels, Satan, Santa, pixies,
fairies, or leprechauns, etc.).

Otherwise, what you have there is A THING
brought into existence out of Nothingness. Or,
"created" by magic (with no connection whatever
to the laws of science, of nature, of physics).

In your example below, every "evolution" of
Office was "created" (everything is an evolution)
by man. What you may NOT do is take something
created by man and term it a "creation from
Nothingness" (any more than you can take a man's
nose and term it a "creation" of that man) as if man
had played no part in the creation/evolution of that
whatever thing. If you're going to do this, then you
are going to have to say that man himself is a
creation of his environment (and not of God).

The universe (everything that exists) is an evolution.

What this means is that it has a history of evolving.
Were it otherwise, it would have NO history of
evolving ... and only a point of creation. The Big
Bang Theory is religion, not science--reduced purely
to science, it is repudiated/disproved by countless
principles and laws of physics, and can ONLY be
sustained by the laws of science fiction (invisible
inexplicable undetectable dark energies and matters).
SEE:
        http://physics.sdrodrian.com

The history of the evolution of the universe comprises
ALL of human history. The "facts" in man's "stores of
knowledge" are either true or false: either "what you
know" is "what is there," or you know nothing about
anything... in which case, how can you live like that!

We know a vast amount about the evolution/history
of man: What precursor we evolved from, where, why,
and how we murderous apes came to conquer this
little planet we so brilliantly camed "Earth." We
know exactly where/when/and by whom all the
religions of man were invented.

      Our books are filled with facts...

I suppose it's, as you might assert, merely a matter
of faith. In which case, you answer it: Do you believe
what some people are saying about life, or do you
believe what life has to say about itself?

It's entirely your call. Either you believe the parts
which seems very believable, or you believe the parts
that seem very unbelievable. Good luck in this quest
every living being undertakes!

> Microsoft Office for example, has evolved since
> its creation, but it
> is clear that it did not
> create itself. It came from the minds of
> intelligent beings, namely software
> developers. All aspects of
> technology have evolved in the
> last 100 or more years, but again, it
> has evolved because of the intelligence,
> ingenuity and creativity of
> human beings. Likewise, the world
> of nature may have evolved, but not
> by virtue of its own intelligence, but
> by that of its creator, by
> whatever name you call Him.
>
> Damian Anderson

Please make a definite distinction between an idea
of man's and an idea of God's: Man is a material
creature, and, when realized, his ideas are of the
moment they are manufactured (made by his hands);
in other words, they are one moment's evolution of
the previous moments (indeed, of all moments, time
without end)... while God is a mythological being
whose mythological ideas have, of necessity, no
relationship whatsoever with any moment (timeless
as they are from the instant they are realized even
unto all the future)... nor even with materials (for
God, unlike man, can create angels & Satan, et al).
In other words, what man creates is of/for a time
(like your versions of Office), while God creates
things which are for all time (ergo they have no
relationship whatsoever with "evolution").

This is all merely to point out that no part of God
has anything to do with man, because every part of
man is the product of evolution (your parents). And
never the twain shall meet: Angels have no parents,
nor Satan an heir.

But thank you for acknowledging that "everything
is an evolution." Now read about the history of this
planet. Specifically how once there was no oxygen
here, and how the creatures that lived then produced
oxygen as a waste product: Those creatures were
so successful that they caused a world-wide
catastrophe (namely, they polluted the planet with
so much oxygen that they themselves then found it
impossible to "breathe" -live- in it and died off in
droves, leaving the planet open for creatures which
thrived on oxygen). No creature can live on its own
waste, you know.

Since then the earth has achieved a balance of sorts
(a compromise) between creatures that breathe
oxygen and those which produce oxygen as a waste
product. (A compromise/balance which, as you will
see, is not God-planned, and therefore, only for a
time). Stay tuned.

But the oxygen catastrophe was an undisputed
catastrophe for the creatures which produced it.
Which is an example of two of my crucial points:

The ability of evolution (blind, unforgiving
evolution) to produce life forms which adapt
to any conditions (no matter how catastrophic
they may appear to be)... and the point that
a perfect God, with a perfect intellect, would
never have made such catastrophic blunders
(but would have no doubt carefully "thought out"
the eventual compromise between oxygen
producers and oxygen consumers with a much
more elegant solution than the resulting world-
wide catastrophe of unimaginable proportions
which took place).

This is of crucial importance to us, because
one day in the not too distant future we too
will face a similar world-wide catastrophe
caused by our reproductive success. And,
frankly, God will not help us then any more
than He did those original oxygen producers
(as we are the product of evolution, NOT of
God):

Humanity will collapse (die in droves) in one
monstrous catastrophe. And then (hopefully)
evolve some more successful compromise with
its environment. And those who believe so
sweetly that we will use our brains to save
ourselves from the coming catastrophe ... had
better study again the story of Easter Island
to know what is coming. As I said, hopefully:

Blind, unforgiving, grimly mindless evolution will
save us from ourselves (from all our best plans,
which would otherwise kill us all, to the last one),
and those few hardy souls who can survive on
garbage & corpse marrow (or whatever other crap
with which we will have pulluted this little planet
to death) will "hopefully" create the next great
flowering of intelligent life which will arise on this
planet (hopefully), until it destroys itself again (to
the benefit of the next flowering of life).

And, if you just don't see that this marvelous
catastrophe is coming... well, that's because you're
using your blundering brain, that's all: It's all part
of evolution's apparently quite infallible system!

See!

S D Rodrian
http://poems.sdrodrian.com
http://physics.sdrodrian.com
http://mp3s.sdrodrian.com

All religions are local.
Only science is universal.

**************************************

> On Jul 18, 6:30 am, sdr
 wrote:

> Proof Of Evolution.
>
> On Jul 15, 2:36 am, Pastor Dave
>  wrote to someone:
>
> > You have given zero proof of macroevolution
> > and that is what you need to prove and can't.
> > Bugs staying bugs does not equal "goo to you".
> > Nor does falsely labeling me do anything but
> > prove your true intent.  Pastor Dave
>
> Everything that exists is an evolution.
> from ideas to creatures to rocks to atoms and
> stars: Everything without a single exception.
>
> This is how it is possible to KNOW that any
> and all proposals which exclude the evolutionary
> process from ANYTHING is self-evident proof
> in-and-of-itself that such a proposal is flawed
> AND therefore partly or entirely wrong.
>
> Existence is absolutely deterministic. Otherwise
> physical impossibilities become not only possible
> but almost inevitable. We become a realm of magic!
>
> I know that theists believe in nothing BUT magic.
> And that therefore reason and logic, even the most
> obvious and self-evident proofs & facts are of no
> use to counter their mental illness (for it is not
> unlike a madness, this unreasonable conviction
> that deists have that existence is everywhere awash
> in evidence of magic all around us). This sickness
> even permeates into science and retards/thwarts it.
>
> The classical historical example is when Galileo
> showed his telescope to the Pope. Dogma said that
> the heavens were perfect and only the earth was
> corrupt... and that because we were God's special
> creation the universe circled the earth:
>
> IF but looking upon the truth were enough to
> convince one of its rightness, surely the Pope would
> be instantly convinced when he looked through his
> telescope and saw the pox-faced Moon... and all
> sorts of heavenly bodies circling NOT the earth but
> Jupiter and other mere planets!
>
> But, the Pope looked, and the Pope saw, and the
> Pope had to admit to Galileo that he was seeing what
> he was seeing. And then, as we all know, the Pope
> showed Galileo the instruments of torture which he
> threatened to use on him if he did not publicly say
> that it was Dogma that was true and NOT what their
> eyes were seeing.
>
> It is a social sickness, a mental illness from which
> human beings suffer no end.
>
> But I will persist, none-the-less, and mention in
> passing the evolution of pathogens which is killing
> a whole lot of atheists and theists alike: By the
> simplest laws of Darwinian adaptation of the fittest
> pathogens which used to kill us in great numbers
> were "conquered" by our discovery of antibiotics.
>
> We literally "flushed" the deadly pathogens from
> our system and kept them out by a great flood of
> antibiotics... forgetting that evolution and not God
> or even all our human efforts is what rules the
> universe.
>
> Well, we DID kill most of the deadly pathogens, but
> the survivors "adapted" to the new environment of
> antibiotics. And now the "evolved" pathogens are
> returning the state of affairs to the way it used to
> be before our discovery of antibiotics--With an
> ironic
> twist: because the newly evolved pathogens actually
> thrive in a body flushed with antibiotics, giving
> those antibiotics to people sickened with such
> pathogens actually makes things worst than were
> they not given any antibiotics at all! (We can still
> invent newer antibiotics, of course, but evolution
> will ensure that the matter will always rest where
> it
> has always rested: in a never-ending arms-race
> between living organisms to see which wins the
> reproduction race. I have my money on the worst
> bugs, whether that turn out to be they or us.)
>
> Ignore the truth of evolution at your own peril.
>
> In the case of H.I.V. research, there was also a
> curious instance in which evolution can be seen
> playing a quite dramatic role:
>
> Researchers were able to kill off a large percentage
> of the AIDS virus (it doesn't matter which for this
> example) with a heavy concoction of drugs, and
> patients seemed to thrive. But then they began to
> sicken again. Stubborn as people are, and doctors
> are people too, they persisted on the regimen of
> drugs being administered. With sad consequences.
>
> Then some patients decided, on their own, to stop
> taking the cocktail of drugs; and actually improved
> without any drugs. But it was not magic, it was
> evolution at work:
>
> The original viruses were killed (suppressed) by the
> cocktail of drugs... leaving only those viruses best
> "adapted" to an environment flushed with the drugs
> cocktail to "reproduce." Then, when the drugs were
> removed, those viruses "best adapted" to live in an
> environment without the drugs "replaced" the newly-
> evolved viruses. And we go back to the same old
> arms-race that evolution has unleashed upon this
> earth since its beginnings, worlds without end.
>
> But don't despair: Life is impossible without death.
> It may be a great tragedy to the individual, but
> death ensures that every generation of creatures is
> the best adapted to survive in whatever existence
> this planet offers--Something which is completely
> unpredictable: Therefore, were it the case that life
> depended on some well-thought-out plan, instead of
> on blind evolution, I simply cannot imagine how on
> earth life might have avoided some catastrophically
> stupid blunder long before now and killed itself...
> rather than waiting for something to kill it (as it
> now does with simply stunning success).      [sic.]
>
> S D Rodrian
> http://poems.sdrodrian.com
> http://physics.sdrodrian.com
> http://mp3s.sdrodrian.com
>
> All religions are local.
> Only science is universal.

********************************

On Jul 23, 10:35 am, cor
 wrote:

> Fossils do not exist. They are simply geological
> artifacts. All life was created by God in an already
> perfect condition. That is final.

That's what my grandmother used to tell me too!

She'd swear at me [sic] that for as long as she'd
been observing this: a mule always gave birth to
another mule, a cat always gave birth to another
cat, and a dog always gave birth to another dog.

So, naturally, I'd take advantage of her certainty and
whenever she complained about my stubbornness or
whatever other misbehavior/shortcoming of mine...
I'd point out how it was she who had given birth to
my mother, who then had given birth to me! That
"certainly" fixed her but good (didn't shut her up,
just fixed her).

Of course, what I always failed to appreciate was
how little my own almost nonexistent sense of
forgiveness and love of violence had evolved away
from the old bag's. So it was always a great saving
grace that I was young and spry and she was old
and ... not nearly as spry. (And had no memory past
a couple of hours, of course.)

S D Rodrian
http://poems.sdrodrian.com
http://physics.sdrodrian.com
http://mp3s.sdrodrian.com

All religions are local.
Only science is universal.

..