I've developed a tool for invisible watermarking. The name is
SignMyImage and you can find it at www.adptools.com/signmyimage
Moreover I employ a web crawler, that is able to trace the image on
internet. Its much cheaper replacement of well known digimarc.

On 5 Mar, 12:46, Filip  wrote:
> I've developed a tool for invisible watermarking.

Your algorithm is horribly susceptible to cropping. Didn't you read
the literature on this first? There's no need for it to be so weak.

"Andy Dingley"  wrote in message 
news:54815fe8-3e95-4eeb-9c6d-85ad0abf73b2@l39g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
: On 5 Mar, 12:46, Filip  wrote:
: > I've developed a tool for invisible watermarking.
:
: Your algorithm is horribly susceptible to cropping. Didn't you 
read
: the literature on this first? There's no need for it to be so 
weak.

I'm getting a deja-vu feeling, didn't we all have a similar 
conversation a few weeks ago?

Just to repeat, how would such invisible watermarking stop anyone 
copying the image via a screen grab?...
-- 
Regards, Jerry.
Location - United Kingdom.
In the first instance please reply to group, sorry,
Emails to this address are deleted unread.

On 5 Mar, 15:36, "Jerry" <mapson.sca...@btinternet.com.INVALID> wrote:

> Just to repeat, how would such invisible watermarking stop anyone
> copying the image via a screen grab?...

That's not the function of an invisible watermark. However if they do
grab your image, you can now _prove_ that it came from your source.

On 5 Bøe, 16:16, Andy Dingley  wrote:
> On 5 Mar, 12:46, Filip  wrote:
>
> > I've developed a tool for invisible watermarking.
>
> Your algorithm is horribly susceptible to cropping. Didn't you read
> the literature on this first? There's no need for it to be so weak.

I did a review of methods. There are few more resistent to cropping
but not that can survive jpeg, crop, scaling better. Including
Digimarc ;-) F.

On 5 Bøe, 16:36, "Jerry" <mapson.sca...@btinternet.com.INVALID> wrote:
> "Andy Dingley"  wrote in message
>
> news:54815fe8-3e95-4eeb-9c6d-85ad0abf73b2@l39g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
> : On 5 Mar, 12:46, Filip  wrote:
> : > I've developed a tool for invisible watermarking.
> :
> : Your algorithm is horribly susceptible to cropping. Didn't you
> read
> : the literature on this first? There's no need for it to be so
> weak.
>
> I'm getting a deja-vu feeling, didn't we all have a similar
> conversation a few weeks ago?
>
> Just to repeat, how would such invisible watermarking stop anyone
> copying the image via a screen grab?...
> --
> Regards, Jerry.
> Location - United Kingdom.
> In the first instance please reply to group, sorry,
> Emails to this address are deleted unread.

Yes, you might be right :-) If you copy & paste the image (using the
screen grab) the watermark will survive of course. Its written inside
the image not int any tag.

F>

Filip  wrote:

> www.adptools.com/signmyimage

What exactly do you mean "This version *might* be usable for webhosting
providers, auction providers, social networkers etc."?

Daniele

On 16 Bøe, 17:49, real-not-anti-spam-addr...@apple-juice.co.uk (D.M.
Procida) wrote:
> Filip  wrote:
> >www.adptools.com/signmyimage
>
> What exactly do you mean "This version *might* be usable for webhosting
> providers, auction providers, social networkers etc."?
>
> Daniele

Lets imagine that you run server similar to ebay:

You can "on upload" sign all photos of the item beeing sold. If
someone steals the photo from your server and tries to upload the
photo on your server again, the procedure "on upload" detects the
signature and refuse to upload it.

Filip

Filip  wrote:

> > What exactly do you mean "This version *might* be usable for webhosting
> > providers, auction providers, social networkers etc."?
> 
> Lets imagine that you run server similar to ebay:
> 
> You can "on upload" sign all photos of the item beeing sold. If
> someone steals the photo from your server and tries to upload the
> photo on your server again, the procedure "on upload" detects the
> signature and refuse to upload it.

OK, I understand, thanks.

However, either it is usable or it isn't - you can't say it *might* be
usable (that means, maybe it will work or maybe it won't). Maybe you
meant it might be *useful*.

Daniele
-- 
Wanted: TEAC A-2300SX, Akai GX-4000D

Kindly view the site here
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/our.demesne/PAtest/ 

It is very much a work-in-progress and a learning experience, so
expect much to be amiss.

My question is about appearance & functionality, not coding.   

We want the site to be reserved, restrained and serious, to look as if
it and Parrotaid  is run by old fogies (which it is) and to be very
light on entertainment value but heavy on serious content and
reference material.

Anyway, my issues with yoof kultcha aside, I have a question about the
presence of two navbars, top and left. 

 I want the top navbar to remain in place on every (relevant) page.
Each second level section (i.e. those referenced by the top navbar)
will have a slightly different colour scheme suggested by the
different bird image on each page.   Please see the incomplete "About
Us" as an example, and even less complete, the "Events" page.  None of
the LHS navbar links work. 

Now the question is - is it daft for the home page essentially to have
two navbars referencing exactly the same content?   I have tried to
avoid a sudden and disconcerting change of UI from homepage to next
page by introducing a new navbar on the second level pages, hence my
need to "force"  the Home Page to accept a redundant navbar. Is that a
problem? 

I suspect the answer will probably be "I wouldn't have started from
there", but given that I have,  can I "get away with" the structure as
is?   

The site will be started from elsewhere anyway in due course, but in
the meantime, as always, I would be grateful for
opinions/insight/references/advice/money etc .....

Lewis

In article ,
 spam.goes.here2@ntlworld.com wrote:

> Now the question is - is it daft for the home page essentially to have
> two navbars referencing exactly the same content? 


Yes, it is daft! <g>

It seems that the real (and sensible) functionality of your vertical 
left menu is to provide a local menu. This works fine enough for the 
other pages. But don't do it on the home page where its whole reason is 
lacking.

-- 
dorayme

On Mar 18, 7:28 am, dorayme  wrote:
> In article ,
>
>  spam.goes.he...@ntlworld.com wrote:
> > Now the question is - is it daft for the home page essentially to have
> > two navbars referencing exactly the same content?
>
> Yes, it is daft! <g>
>
> It seems that the real (and sensible) functionality of your vertical
> left menu is to provide a local menu. This works fine enough for the
> other pages. But don't do it on the home page where its whole reason is
> lacking.
>
Yes, exactly.
You (the op), should really fix the validation errors before adding
any more pages, check your pages at http://validator.w3.org
You have 19 errors on the page and a scroll bar at 1280x768 when I
view the page at full screen (not at all a good). It is also the
reason why it is at times easier to hire someone to do the job. But if
you still want to learn this stuff, then you should read the archives
of this group and look at sites such as webstandardsgroup.org in
particular have a listen to the podcasts on web accessibility and
other stuff.
--
Regards Chad. http://freewebdesignonline.org

On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:12:10 -0700 (PDT), Chaddy2222
 wrote:

>On Mar 18, 7:28 am, dorayme  wrote:
>> In article ,
>>
>>  spam.goes.he...@ntlworld.com wrote:
>> > Now the question is - is it daft for the home page essentially to have
>> > two navbars referencing exactly the same content?
>>
>> Yes, it is daft! <g>
>>
>> It seems that the real (and sensible) functionality of your vertical
>> left menu is to provide a local menu. This works fine enough for the
>> other pages. But don't do it on the home page where its whole reason is
>> lacking.
>>
>Yes, exactly.
>You (the op), should really fix the validation errors before adding
>any more pages, check your pages at http://validator.w3.org
I believe that is "standard answer number 2", (SA#1 being don't post
code, give us a URL :) ) with which I am pretty familiar having read
much of this group, but that was not the point of my question and has
no bearing on it. 

>You have 19 errors on the page and a scroll bar at 1280x768 when I
>view the page at full screen (not at all a good). 
Quite so.  Only 19?  <irony>Wow! Isn't Dreamweaver super!</irony> But
that is why I wrote "It is very much a work-in-progress and a learning
experience, so expect much to be amiss.  My question is about
appearance & functionality [of the two home page navbars], not
coding."  

I'll have  a look at the scrollbar - I assume you mean the vertical
one on the homepage - it will be interesting to see what causes that
even at my 1680 x 1050 resolution - it isn't apparent on any of the
other pages, so I think it'll be the 'Midland Parrots' logo. Thank you
for pointing it out.

>It is also the
>reason why it is at times easier to hire someone to do the job.
Quite so.  And that is why I wrote "The site will be started from
elsewhere anyway in due course".  Of course, if one simply hires
someone one doesn't benefit from the intellectual stimulation of the
learning experience nor gain an appreciation the difficulty of the
well-executed craft. 

>> But if
>you still want to learn this stuff  then you should read the archives
>of this group and look at sites such as webstandardsgroup.org in
>particular have a listen to the podcasts on web accessibility and
>other stuff.
Thank you for those suggestions.  I have done much reading - at least
enough to be able to create _something_ in three days based only on
remembrance of times past - and I have much more to do. I do not
anticipate my work being the future face of Parrotaid, but I do expect
it to have been an interesting learning experience

Message-ID:
 from
Chaddy2222 contained the following:

>> Yes, it is daft! <g>
>>
>> It seems that the real (and sensible) functionality of your vertical
>> left menu is to provide a local menu. This works fine enough for the
>> other pages. But don't do it on the home page where its whole reason is
>> lacking.
>>
>Yes, exactly.
>You (the op), should really fix the validation errors before adding
>any more pages, check your pages at http://validator.w3.org
>You have 19 errors on the page 

Whilst I agree that, if this page is to be used as a template the errors
should be fixed, they aren't major.  In fact, you'll never get rid of
the target error with strict.  The validator makes no distinction
between errors of style (opening a new browser window or tab using
target) and errors that might affect the page display.  Which it should
IMO.

As for the original question.  Yes, I agree it is daft.  As is having a
breadcrumb trail on the home page.  :-} (does it perhaps lead back to
grandma's house...?)

-- 
Geoff Berrow  0110001001101100010000000110
001101101011011001000110111101100111001011
100110001101101111001011100111010101101011
http://slipperyhill.co.uk - http://4theweb.co.uk

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 07:28:11 +1100, dorayme
 wrote:

>In article ,
> spam.goes.here2@ntlworld.com wrote:
>
>> Now the question is - is it daft for the home page essentially to have
>> two navbars referencing exactly the same content? 
>
>
>Yes, it is daft! <g>
>
>It seems that the real (and sensible) functionality of your vertical 
>left menu is to provide a local menu. This works fine enough for the 
>other pages. But don't do it on the home page where its whole reason is 
>lacking.
Thank you for that: I tried it out and it wasn't as jarring as I
expected.  I think that tells me also that I am more of a prisoner of
my assumptions than I thought.  It seems that logic DOES after all
have a place in design :)

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:42:32 +0000, Geoff Berrow
 wrote:

>As for the original question.  Yes, I agree it is daft.  
Not only is it daft, but it isn't even a problem not to do it, as it
turns out.  I should have tried it first, shouldn't I?  But I let the
perceived need for consistency in my mind over-ride sense and logic,
bah !

>As is having a
>breadcrumb trail on the home page.  :-} (does it perhaps lead back to
>grandma's house...?)

Ahem.  Blame the template wot I am using.  I do :)  On the other hand,
not knowing what a breadcrumb was for a few days  didn't help either!

Message-ID:  from
spam.goes.here2@ntlworld.com contained the following:

>>As is having a
>>breadcrumb trail on the home page.  :-} (does it perhaps lead back to
>>grandma's house...?)
>
>Ahem.  Blame the template wot I am using.  I do :)  On the other hand,
>not knowing what a breadcrumb was for a few days  didn't help either!

I wouldn't like to do one manually.  And if you have more than one
referring page you couldn't.
-- 
Geoff Berrow  0110001001101100010000000110
001101101011011001000110111101100111001011
100110001101101111001011100111010101101011
http://slipperyhill.co.uk - http://4theweb.co.uk

wrote in message 
news:m3j1s4114aorl7nmnrlsiile8r7vpbg9k1@4ax.com...

<snip>

Why are you posting everything twice (or more) using two 
different accounts/usernames?...

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:44:07 -0000, "Jerry"
<mapson.scarts@btinternet.com.INVALID> wrote:

>
> wrote in message 
>news:m3j1s4114aorl7nmnrlsiile8r7vpbg9k1@4ax.com...
>
><snip>
>
>Why are you posting everything twice (or more) using two 
>different accounts/usernames?... 
>
Because I (once again, dammit!) mistakenly posted with a "persona"
(Agent 5.0) that uses someone else's domain name (here.com). 

I sent cancel messages for those, but not all servers process cancel
messages and/or they didn't propagate quickly enough.  I re-posted
"correctly" (I hoped) for those servers that do process cancel
messages. Maybe I should just have left well alone. 

I  have now permanently rectified my own c*ck-up and deleted entirely
the inappropriate persona from Agent 5 (to which it defaulted and to
which I did not pay enough attention) and will henceforth be posting
as myself!

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to explain.  Sorry for the mess.
I really should know better.  I have some excuses, but you really
shouldn't have to hear them.

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:25:37 +0000, spam.goes.here2 wrote:
> I sent cancel messages for those, but not all servers process cancel
> messages

Very few (if any) do. The cancel system was long ago found to be too 
easy to abuse.

-- 
Anahata
anahata@treewind.co.uk  ==//== 01638 720444
http://www.treewind.co.uk ==//== http://www.myspace.com/maryanahata

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 07:46:27 -0500, anahata 
wrote:

>On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:25:37 +0000, spam.goes.here2 wrote:
>> I sent cancel messages for those, but not all servers process cancel
>> messages
>
>Very few (if any) do. The cancel system was long ago found to be too 
>easy to abuse.
Ahhh .. thank you.  I have been 'away' for a while.  No, not detained
to give Her Majesty pleasure. :)

In article ,
 Geoff Berrow  wrote:

> As for the original question.  Yes, I agree it is daft.  As is having a
> breadcrumb trail on the home page.  :-} (does it perhaps lead back to
> grandma's house...?)

and is that *really* grandma in bed or ...

-- 
dorayme

In article ,
 me here  wrote:

> On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 07:28:11 +1100, dorayme
>  wrote:
> 
> >In article ,
> > spam.goes.here2@ntlworld.com wrote:
> >
> >> Now the question is - is it daft for the home page essentially to have
> >> two navbars referencing exactly the same content? 
> >
> >
> >Yes, it is daft! <g>
> >
> >It seems that the real (and sensible) functionality of your vertical 
> >left menu is to provide a local menu. This works fine enough for the 
> >other pages. But don't do it on the home page where its whole reason is 
> >lacking.
> Thank you for that: I tried it out and it wasn't as jarring as I
> expected.  I think that tells me also that I am more of a prisoner of
> my assumptions than I thought.  It seems that logic DOES after all
> have a place in design :) 

Be assured that it is quite a common practice to have a home page *very 
different* to the template that all the rest follow. In other words, a 
*few logical changes* are nothing compared with what it is reasonable to 
do on all sorts of grounds, ranging from usability to aesthetics.

-- 
dorayme

In article ,
 spam.goes.here2@ntlworld.com wrote:

> I have been 'away' for a while.  No, not detained
> to give Her Majesty pleasure. :)

Well, maybe she was in a bad mood and was not pleased having to clothe 
and feed and guard you for the period? <g>

-- 
dorayme

On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 06:45:44 +1100, dorayme
 wrote:

>In article ,
> spam.goes.here2@ntlworld.com wrote:
>
>> I have been 'away' for a while.  No, not detained
>> to give Her Majesty pleasure. :)
>
>Well, maybe she was in a bad mood and was not pleased having to clothe 
>and feed and guard you for the period? <g>

Oh!   The ancestry of your compatriots betrays you :)

Were there any Swiss nuns who made it to the "fatal shore"?*

Lewis


*references to the Sound of Music (doh - a deer etc) and Robert Hughes
(who tells a damn dark story jolly well)  for those who might not
realise that that wasn't a jibe**.

** which is, apparently, something to do with yachting. But i have yt
to meet someone who can explain why yacht is spelled so

In article ,
 spam.goes.here2@ntlworld.com wrote:

> But i have yt
> to meet someone who can explain why yacht is spelled so

ORIGIN mid 16th cent.: from early modern Dutch jaghte, from jaghtschip 
'fast pirate ship,' from jag(h)t 'hunting' + schip 'ship.'

-- 
dorayme

On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:12:10 -0700 (PDT), Chaddy2222
 wrote:

>You (the op), should really fix the validation errors before adding
>any more pages, check your pages at http://validator.w3.org
>You have 19 errors on the page 

Thank you for prompting me to do that. 

I assume you yourself had done so in order to be able to tell me about
the errors.   

It might have been more a more valuable benefit from your labours on
my behalf to have  pointed out that most of those errors were in the
code cut and pasted from PayPal;  but nonetheless I  learned one
valuable thing: Dreamweaver (8, anyway) does not elegantly handle
filenames containing ampersands: it leaves them "as is" rather than
encoding them.  I shall have to avoid ampersands in filenames/links.

I learned one other thing which is that - apparently - I cannot add a
textual comment to a </div> tag, which is a shame as it would be
helpful for someone like me who sometimes has a big problem with short
term memory: e.g <div id="siteInfo"> site info </div id="site info"> -
but, hey: that's my problem, and I'm sure I can bung in a comment to
help.

What a brilliant site that validator.w3.org is, though: I hope there
are no usage limits :)

In article ,
 spam.goes.here2@ntlworld.com wrote:

> I learned one other thing which is that - apparently - I cannot add a
> textual comment to a </div> tag, which is a shame as it would be
> helpful for someone like me who sometimes has a big problem with short
> term memory: e.g <div id="siteInfo"> site info </div id="site info"> 

?

You *can* add <div id="siteInfo"> if that helps you and give or not give  
a style for a div of that ID. (You can't do that to the closing tag. why 
would you want to?)

You can put as many comments in your HTML and/or CSS file as you like. 
Your IDs could be used by you for personal visual verifications that are 
private to you. If it is your own site and you are the one who will 
always manage it, there is no big reason why not. 

You could your HTML be the craziest looking one on the planet that 
nevertheless validates and works brilliantly

<p 
id="sonofabitchthisparagraphisconsideringthetroubleIwenttotowriteit">...<
/p>

-- 
dorayme

On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 21:03:06 +1100, dorayme
 wrote:

> (You can't do that to the closing tag. why 
>would you want to?)

As far as the closing tag is concerned  I sometimes have problems with
really short-term memory so, for example, I forget which </div> tag
I'm looking at despite having seen the ID'd <div> tag 5 seconds ago!
Oddly my medium term memory is not too bad once something has sunk in:
it seems to be those things which are inherently "disposable" that
give me problems. 

 I'm beginning to develop work-arounds for all sorts of things, and
I'm sure I'll manage to do something here too, (I carry one or more
timers with me to remind me e.g. that 3 minutes ago I did something
that now needs attending to.  Mostly I remember what that thing was!).
><p 
>id="sonofabitchthisparagraphisconsideringthetroubleIwenttotowriteit">...<
>/p>
Well, well well.  I didn't quite get that bit of how ID could be used.
Thank you :)  But as it will be a public site, I wouldn't want to
frighten children or horses!

Message-ID:  from
spam.goes.here2@ntlworld.com contained the following:

>It might have been more a more valuable benefit from your labours on
>my behalf to have  pointed out that most of those errors were in the
>code cut and pasted from PayPal;  but nonetheless I  learned one
>valuable thing: Dreamweaver (8, anyway) does not elegantly handle
>filenames containing ampersands: it leaves them "as is" rather than
>encoding them.  I shall have to avoid ampersands in filenames/links.

No need.  Just code them as &  Or ignore it, it's only a potential
problem concerning some, as yet undefined character entity.
>
>I learned one other thing which is that - apparently - I cannot add a
>textual comment to a </div> tag, which is a shame as it would be
>helpful for someone like me who sometimes has a big problem with short
>term memory: e.g <div id="siteInfo"> site info </div id="site info"> -
>but, hey: that's my problem, and I'm sure I can bung in a comment to
>help.

You're not alone, I have trouble keeping track of the buggers too.

Sensible indenting helps a little, when I CBA.
-- 
Geoff Berrow  0110001001101100010000000110
001101101011011001000110111101100111001011
100110001101101111001011100111010101101011
http://slipperyhill.co.uk - http://4theweb.co.uk

In article ,
 spam.goes.here2@ntlworld.com wrote:

> I sometimes have problems with
> really short-term memory so, for example, I forget which </div> tag
> I'm looking at despite having seen the ID'd <div> tag 5 seconds ago!

Do you know about commenting your HTML? Standard practice. 

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
<html>
<head>
<title>Commenting</title>
</head>
<body>
<!-- this begins the banner -->
<div>banner stuff</div>
<!-- this ends the banner -->
</body>
</html>

-- 
dorayme

On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 06:27:35 +1100, dorayme
 wrote:

>In article ,
> spam.goes.here2@ntlworld.com wrote:
>
>> I sometimes have problems with
>> really short-term memory so, for example, I forget which </div> tag
>> I'm looking at despite having seen the ID'd <div> tag 5 seconds ago!
>
>Do you know about commenting your HTML? Standard practice. 
<snip>

I knew that I COULD comment, I did not know really HOW to comment.
Thank you for that.

In article ,
 spam.goes.here2@ntlworld.com wrote:

> I knew that I COULD comment, I did not know really HOW to comment.
> Thank you for that.

In CSS files including in the head of the HTML, the commenting has a 
different syntax:

.content {
   width: 94%; /* leave some margin on left/right edges */
   float: right;
   ...
}

-- 
dorayme

On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 21:03:06 +1100, dorayme
 wrote in
:

>You *can* add <div id="siteInfo"> if that helps you and give or not give  
>a style for a div of that ID. (You can't do that to the closing tag. why 
>would you want to?)

Why is the closing tag of a <div> </div> rather than just </>?

I can think of two ansers:
1) In HTML it allows you to close nested elements implicitly, this
possibly makes things easier for humans reading the markup but it makes
machine parsing more complex. XML rejected this feature.
2) It makes it easier for a human reading the markup to relate the
closing tag to the opening tag; machines do not need that assistance.

In both cases the verbosity is there for the benefit of humans reading
the markup. I have no difficulty in seeing the beneft of additional
annotation of the markup that makes it easier for humans reading the
markup to connect the opening and closing tags of an element.

That being said, I do not think that it is right to allow attribute
declarations in a closing tag or to overload the attribute declarations
with a tag matching function. If there were to be a tag matching
function I think it would have to be a different syntax but I would
expect that there would then be calls to overload that syntax with other
meanings and we would probably end up worse off than we are with the
markup we have.

-- 
Owen Rees
[one of] my preferred email address[es] and more stuff can be
found at <http://www.users.waitrose.com/~owenrees/index.html>

In article ,
 Owen Rees  wrote:

> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 21:03:06 +1100, dorayme
>  wrote in
> :
> 
> >You *can* add <div id="siteInfo"> if that helps you and give or not give  
> >a style for a div of that ID. (You can't do that to the closing tag. why 
> >would you want to?)
> 
> Why is the closing tag of a <div> </div> rather than just </>?

If your question was just about DIV closing tags, it would not matter 
much, anything simple but consistent and rigidly rule governed would do 
for human readability, machines would have no trouble either.

The trouble would come in proposing similar for all element closing tags.

A browser might take longer to work things out for 


<table>
        <tr>
            <td>one</>
            <td>two</>
        </>

</table>

because it might trip on the first </> supposing it a closing tag of the 
row after an implicit but missing closing of the table cell. Further 
reading would enable it to work things out...

-- 
dorayme

On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 09:41:55 +1100, dorayme
 wrote in
:

>A browser might take longer to work things out for 
>
>
><table>
>        <tr>
>            <td>one</>
>            <td>two</>
>        </>
>
></table>
>
>because it might trip on the first </> supposing it a closing tag of the 
>row after an implicit but missing closing of the table cell. Further 
>reading would enable it to work things out...

The simple rule would be that all elements must have a closing tag (as
in XML) and that all closing tags are </> and close the current
innermost open element.

This would make it much harder for browsers to fix up syntax errors in
the page markup and that is either an advantage or a disadvantage
depending on your point of view. For syntactically correct markup it is
no problem at all.

-- 
Owen Rees
[one of] my preferred email address[es] and more stuff can be
found at <http://www.users.waitrose.com/~owenrees/index.html>