What about renewal?

Can a registrar gouge you when it comes to renewal?  E.g. charge a
cheap £4.99 or whatever for two years and then £49.99 for the next two
years when you come to renew having made the website an integral part
of your (charitable)  activity?

Thanks for helping a newbie - in my turn I'm helping someone even more
clueless than I am and  I don't want them dropped in it in two years
time.

Cheers

me here  writes:

> What about renewal?
>
> Can a registrar gouge you when it comes to renewal?  E.g. charge a
> cheap £4.99 or whatever for two years and then £49.99 for the next two
> years when you come to renew having made the website an integral part
> of your (charitable)  activity?

No, because you'd just renew it with someone else.  There are lots of
companies providing name registration so there is no way anyone can
extort money that way.

The key thing is to own the domain yourself.  Don't let the web
designer buy it for you.  Don't let the hosting company take it out in
their name (do any try to do this?).  There is no harm it having the
hosting company register the domain for you, so long as it is in your
name.  By "your" I mean the entity that matters be that a person or
charity or whatever.

-- 
Ben.

On Wed, 04 Mar 2009 18:17:52 +0000, me here put finger to keyboard and
typed:

>What about renewal?
>
>Can a registrar gouge you when it comes to renewal?  E.g. charge a
>cheap £4.99 or whatever for two years and then £49.99 for the next two
>years when you come to renew having made the website an integral part
>of your (charitable)  activity?

They can try, but you can move away from them and find another
registrar. However, you may have to pay an administration fee to do
so. If it's a co.uk or org.uk domain then that's not much of a
problem; if it's something else then it may be. What TLD is the domain
in?

£4.99 is below the wholesale price of a domain (well, most domains,
anyway) so that price is either a loss leader or comes with some nasty
small print that will come back to bite you later. As a general rule,
that sort of deal needs to be treated with caution. It's not uncommon
for web hosts to offer, say, a free domain name as long as you
maintain hosting with them (usually with a minimum term so that they
are guaranteed to cover the price of the domain from the hosting
profit), in which case it's not necessarily a bad deal so long as
there are no other hidden terms and the hosting itself is worth it.
Registrars that offer very cheap domains without an associated hosting
contract, however, need to be treated very warily indeed - if they're
not making their profit by selling hosting and simply using the domain
as a loss-leader, then they must be making it from hidden clauses such
as transfer fees and/or major hikes in the renewal price.

Mark
--
Blog: http://mark.goodge.co.uk
Stuff: http://www.good-stuff.co.uk

On Wed, 04 Mar 2009 18:38:13 +0000, Ben Bacarisse
 wrote:

>
>The key thing is to own the domain yourself.  Don't let the web
>designer buy it for you.  Don't let the hosting company take it out in
>their name (do any try to do this?).  There is no harm it having the
>hosting company register the domain for you, so long as it is in your
>name.  By "your" I mean the entity that matters be that a person or
>charity or whatever.

Thank you for that.  That's one thing we've now got clearly in our
minds.

On Wed, 04 Mar 2009 18:40:06 +0000, Mark Goodge
 wrote:

>On Wed, 04 Mar 2009 18:17:52 +0000, me here put finger to keyboard and
>typed:
>
>>What about renewal?
>>
>>Can a registrar gouge you when it comes to renewal?  E.g. charge a
>>cheap £4.99 or whatever for two years and then £49.99 for the next two
>>years when you come to renew having made the website an integral part
>>of your (charitable)  activity?
>
>They can try, but you can move away from them and find another
>registrar. However, you may have to pay an administration fee to do
>so. If it's a co.uk or org.uk domain then that's not much of a
>problem; if it's something else then it may be. What TLD is the domain
>in?

We've found a suitable name in .co.uk and .org.uk.   .info is on offer
for £0.99 for 1 year!  But then I noticed a two year cost was £19.99
or something.  So I think we'll just stick with .co.uk and .org.uk!

>£4.99 is below the wholesale price of a domain (well, most domains,
>anyway) so that price is either a loss leader or comes with some nasty
>small print that will come back to bite you later.

Thanks for the warning.  I don't mind reading small print so I'll take
that advice seriously! 

>As a general rule,
>that sort of deal needs to be treated with caution. It's not uncommon
>for web hosts to offer, say, a free domain name as long as you
>maintain hosting with them (usually with a minimum term so that they
>are guaranteed to cover the price of the domain from the hosting
>profit), in which case it's not necessarily a bad deal so long as
>there are no other hidden terms and the hosting itself is worth it.

Yes, if it seems to good to  be true etc etc - it was
www.123-reg.co.uk offering the registration, They do hosting as well,
but at the moment we just want to get the name registered so we can
move ahead.  We'll worry about the hosting in a few weeks.

It seems you can register without buying hosting at the time. 

>Registrars that offer very cheap domains without an associated hosting
>contract, however, need to be treated very warily indeed - if they're
>not making their profit by selling hosting and simply using the domain
>as a loss-leader, then they must be making it from hidden clauses such
>as transfer fees and/or major hikes in the renewal price.

That's what seemed likely to me.  So I shall have to search for small
print on transfer fees and renewal fees - many thanks for the pointer!

On Wed, 04 Mar 2009 18:40:06 +0000, Mark Goodge
 wrote:

> It's not uncommon
>for web hosts to offer, say, a free domain name as long as you
>maintain hosting with them (usually with a minimum term so that they
>are guaranteed to cover the price of the domain from the hosting
>profit), in which case it's not necessarily a bad deal so long as
>there are no other hidden terms and the hosting itself is worth it.

Is that what THIS means:

"27.11 123-reg will only allow a domain name owned or managed by the
"Client to be attached to the ISP tag of 123-reg or any of its
"Associated Companies if the Client has an active hosting account with
"123-reg or one of its Associated Companies or is holding the domain
"name within a 123-reg holding account."

Does this mean, in simple terms, we'll only be your registrar if your
site is hosted with us?  Or does it actually only say "you can only
point t'internet at us if your site is hosted here" - which seems ...
errr .. sensible!

Gosh.  You'd have thought this would be a lot easier, wouldn't you!
Well, you might not, but I would have!

I'm very grateful for all help in navigating this stuff that you've
obviously spent much time on yourselves already! 

Lewis

On Wed, 04 Mar 2009 19:19:04 +0000, me here put finger to keyboard and
typed:

>On Wed, 04 Mar 2009 18:40:06 +0000, Mark Goodge
> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 04 Mar 2009 18:17:52 +0000, me here put finger to keyboard and
>>typed:
>>
>>>What about renewal?
>>>
>>>Can a registrar gouge you when it comes to renewal?  E.g. charge a
>>>cheap £4.99 or whatever for two years and then £49.99 for the next two
>>>years when you come to renew having made the website an integral part
>>>of your (charitable)  activity?
>>
>>They can try, but you can move away from them and find another
>>registrar. However, you may have to pay an administration fee to do
>>so. If it's a co.uk or org.uk domain then that's not much of a
>>problem; if it's something else then it may be. What TLD is the domain
>>in?
>
>We've found a suitable name in .co.uk and .org.uk.   .info is on offer
>for £0.99 for 1 year!  But then I noticed a two year cost was £19.99
>or something.  So I think we'll just stick with .co.uk and .org.uk!

Actually, for a .info domain 99p for the first year and then a tenner
a year thereafter (£19.99 for two years) would be about right, as the
.info registry is currently running a promotional scheme whereby the
first year's registration fee is lower. (It's actually 99c US
wholesale price for the first year, which for a UK-based reseller
means they can just relabel the USD price to GBP, calling it 99p, and
the exchange rate provides their profit margin). But if your site is
aimed primarily at a UK readership and the domain name reflects the
name of a UK organisation, then a .co.uk and/or .org.uk domain is
probably more useful.

Mark
--
Blog: http://mark.goodge.co.uk
Stuff: http://www.good-stuff.co.uk

At 19:33:02 on Wed, 4 Mar 2009, me here  wrote in 
:

>Is that what THIS means:
>
>"27.11 123-reg will only allow a domain name owned or managed by the
>"Client to be attached to the ISP tag of 123-reg or any of its
>"Associated Companies if the Client has an active hosting account with
>"123-reg or one of its Associated Companies or is holding the domain
>"name within a 123-reg holding account."

It's the either/or which is crucial there.  When you register a domain 
through a domain registrar, that domain is put on their "IPS tag" (not 
"ISP", which is something entirely different).  What 123-Reg are saying 
is that you can only put a domain on their tag if either you have an 
active hosting account with them, or you have a holding account with 
them.  You would have the latter, if you are going to point the domain's 
nameservers at hosting elsewhere.  (I strongly recommend that you don't 
take up the framed forwarding option and point it at freespace - it'll 
scupper the web site in Google.)

123-Reg are honest and above board - I have used them for nearly a 
decade, and have over 100 domains with them, all pointing at hosting 
elsewhere.  As long as all is well, and you know what you're doing, 
123-Reg are fine.  However, what they laughingly call their "support" is 
the deepest load of dingo's doo-doos since records were first kept, so 
don't expect anything much from that - even if you can find it on their 
web site!  (Free clue:  it's a separate domain:  www.123-support.co.uk, 
and you have to log in before you can "ask a question".)
-- 
Molly Mockford
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.)

On Wed, 4 Mar 2009 20:35:45 +0000, Molly Mockford
 wrote some stuff which I found very
helpful.

Thank you for that!   I think 123-reg were Pipex once , a name I
remember.  They host a website for a large-ish local dog charity I
support so they come with some pedigree there (boom boom!)

I think we will go with them

Thanks vm.

Lewis

"me here"  wrote in message 
news:1rqtq4t49vn8erajsnft35frbfovqlll30@4ax.com...
: On Wed, 4 Mar 2009 20:35:45 +0000, Molly Mockford
:  wrote some stuff which I 
found very
: helpful.
:
: Thank you for that!   I think 123-reg were Pipex once , a name 
I
: remember.  They host a website for a large-ish local dog 
charity I
: support so they come with some pedigree there (boom boom!)
:

So, hopefully they will be a chum of yours, otherwise you could 
end up in the dog-house (boom boom!).

Now were did I put my coat?...

me here  writes:
<snip>
> Yes, if it seems to good to  be true etc etc - it was
> www.123-reg.co.uk offering the registration, They do hosting as well,
> but at the moment we just want to get the name registered so we can
> move ahead.  We'll worry about the hosting in a few weeks.

I would suggest you by both at once simply because it makes matters a
little simpler.  If you can get a good deal, get both from the same
company.  There is little value in saving a couple of weeks hosting
costs and the simplification of billing and reminders seems to me
worthwhile.

I have always used 34sp.com and found their "personal" package
sufficient for small charities.  I have no connection to them other
than being a satisfied customer.  They used to be vary good value but
I am told that you can get cheaper deals nowadays.

-- 
Ben.

On Wed, 4 Mar 2009 21:30:06 -0000, "Jerry"
<mapson.scarts@btinternet.com.INVALID> wrote:

>  They host a website for a large-ish local dog 
>charity I
>: support so they come with some pedigree there (boom boom!)
>:
>
>So, hopefully they will be a chum of yours, otherwise you could 
>end up in the dog-house (boom boom!).
>
>Now were did I put my coat?... 
>
There's nothing like a good laugh in the morning, and that was .....
well, you know the rest. :)

On  04 Mar 2009, Mark Goodge  wrote:

>Actually, for a .info domain 99p for the first year and then a tenner
>a year thereafter (£19.99 for two years) would be about right, 

10.99 surely - unless it is 19.99 per two years...  though even that's
a bit costly since many US firms sell at $9.99 (and transfers ~$ 7.99)
or less (possibly +20x ICANN fee).  I know the exchange rate isn't too
great at present, but even at $1.40/GPB a tenner isn't that low - with
Heart Internet charging a fiver, that's perhaps one of the cheapest to
do a renewal at present (though I've not actually used them for such a
transfer to date, I will give them a go).

I;ve not seen anyone offering 99c for .info recently, though at $1.99,
name.com is offering .info with free 'privacy' on the domain.

On Sun, 08 Mar 2009 19:01:26 +0000, NoMailWanted put finger to
keyboard and typed:

>On  04 Mar 2009, Mark Goodge  wrote:
>
>>Actually, for a .info domain 99p for the first year and then a tenner
>>a year thereafter (£19.99 for two years) would be about right, 
>
>10.99 surely - unless it is 19.99 per two years... 

The renewal fee will be £19.99 for two years. The first year will just
be 99p (if the seller is passing on the promotional price).

> though even that's
>a bit costly since many US firms sell at $9.99 (and transfers ~$ 7.99)
>or less (possibly +20x ICANN fee).  I know the exchange rate isn't too
>great at present, but even at $1.40/GPB a tenner isn't that low - with
>Heart Internet charging a fiver, that's perhaps one of the cheapest to
>do a renewal at present (though I've not actually used them for such a
>transfer to date, I will give them a go).

The current wholesale price of .info domains is $6.35 a year,
disregarding the current first-year promotional price. Most US domain
registrars sell them at $9.99 a year.

>I;ve not seen anyone offering 99c for .info recently, though at $1.99,
>name.com is offering .info with free 'privacy' on the domain.

99c is the wholesale price, so there would need to be some markup on
that to make a profit.

Mark
--
Blog: http://mark.goodge.co.uk
Stuff: http://www.good-stuff.co.uk

As the subject line implies, I need to do a Whois type look-up on 
a .es domain, obviously I need a .es Whois site, anyone know of 
one that is simple to use for someone with only pigeon Spanish?
-- 
Regards, Jerry.
Location - United Kingdom.
In the first instance please reply to group, sorry,
Emails to this address are deleted unread.

Install Flagfox on your Firefox browser.  Clicking on the icon in the lower 
right corner of the screen will show you details of the site's hosting, and 
from there you can click on the domain name and do a look-up.

"Jerry" <mapson.scarts@btinternet.com.INVALID> wrote in message 
news:gpj0l1$930$1@news.motzarella.org...
> As the subject line implies, I need to do a Whois type look-up on
> a .es domain, obviously I need a .es Whois site, anyone know of
> one that is simple to use for someone with only pigeon Spanish?
> -- 
> Regards, Jerry.
> Location - United Kingdom.
> In the first instance please reply to group, sorry,
> Emails to this address are deleted unread.
>
>

"Trent SC" <invalid@bogoff.invalid> wrote in message 
news:DvedneTQYPe9tCDUnZ2dnUVZ8tCWnZ2d@posted.plusnet...
: Install Flagfox on your Firefox browser.  Clicking on the icon 
in the lower
: right corner of the screen will show you details of the site's 
hosting, and
: from there you can click on the domain name and do a look-up.
:

Cheers for that.