I've just finished a massive task, with a very happy customer, just to go 
validate and find out that the URLs to external sites (many of them) are 
causing failures that I do not understand.

Here's one page holding them;
http://www.kazbarsystemsinc.com/products/microphones.html

W3C Complaint is;
cannot generate system identifier for general entity "id".
.ref="http://www.neumann.com/?lang=en&id=current_microphones&cid=u87_descripti

I shouldn't really care as it's not my build error, but if they are failing 
due to a link (copied straight out of the address bar) there must be a way 
to correct it?

-dE|_---

"dE|_"  wrote in message 
news:a%a0k.202$yb3.19@newsfe18.ams2...
> I've just finished a massive task, with a very happy customer, just 
> to go validate and find out that the URLs to external sites (many of 
> them) are causing failures that I do not understand.
>
> Here's one page holding them;
> http://www.kazbarsystemsinc.com/products/microphones.html
>
> W3C Complaint is;
> cannot generate system identifier for general entity "id".
> .ref="http://www.neumann.com/?lang=en&id=current_microphones&cid=u87_descripti
>
> I shouldn't really care as it's not my build error, but if they are 
> failing due to a link (copied straight out of the address bar) there 
> must be a way to correct it?
>

Just a thought, and probably way off the mark but, could it be that 
whilst the W3C validator is checking the *mark-up language* for errors 
the URL is a *php variable* that the browser doesn't see or have to 
validate/render - other than a text string. How about modifying one of 
the URLs so that it goes to the index page only (ie. remove the php 
element) and see if you are still getting an error?

On May 31, 9:53 pm, "dE|_"  wrote:
> I've just finished a massive task, with a very happy customer, just to go
> validate and find out that the URLs to external sites (many of them) are
> causing failures that I do not understand.
>
> Here's one page holding them;http://www.kazbarsystemsinc.com/products/microphones.html
>
> W3C Complaint is;
> cannot generate system identifier for general entity "id".
> .ref="http://www.neumann.com/?lang=en&id=current_microphones&cid=u87_descripti
>
> I shouldn't really care as it's not my build error, but if they are failing
> due to a link (copied straight out of the address bar) there must be a way> to correct it?
>
> -dE|_---
Take a quick look through this google search.
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=Unencodedɪ庮욧&meta=
--
Regards Chad. http://freewebdesignonline.org

":Jerry:" <INVALID@INVALID.INVALID> wrote >

>> I've just finished a massive task, with a very happy customer, just to go 
>> validate and find out that the URLs to external sites (many of them) are 
>> causing failures that I do not understand.
>>
>> Here's one page holding them;
>> http://www.kazbarsystemsinc.com/products/microphones.html
>>
>> W3C Complaint is;
>> cannot generate system identifier for general entity "id".
>> .ref="http://www.neumann.com/?lang=en&id=current_microphones&cid=u87_descripti
>>
>> I shouldn't really care as it's not my build error, but if they are 
>> failing due to a link (copied straight out of the address bar) there must 
>> be a way to correct it?
>>
>
> Just a thought, and probably way off the mark but, could it be that whilst 
> the W3C validator is checking the *mark-up language* for errors the URL is 
> a *php variable* that the browser doesn't see or have to validate/render - 
> other than a text string. How about modifying one of the URLs so that it 
> goes to the index page only (ie. remove the php element) and see if you 
> are still getting an error?

I have 4 links in a row to the Neumann site; one to home page (no problem) 
and the next three to URLs like
http://www.neumann.com/?lang=en&id=current_microphones&cid=u87_description

Which all fail, and I take it are php 'variables'. So W3C don't approve of 
php URLs then? Dickheads.

-dE|_---

"dE|_"  wrote in message 
news:LJb0k.61648$Ht.57880@newsfe05.ams2...
>
<snip>
>
> Which all fail, and I take it are php 'variables'. So W3C don't 
> approve of php URLs then? Dickheads.
>

In many peoples opinions the W3C validator is a guide, not God...

"Chaddy2222"  wrote:

>> I've just finished a massive task, with a very happy customer, just to go
>> validate and find out that the URLs to external sites (many of them) are
>> causing failures that I do not understand.
>>
>> Here's one page holding them; 
>> http://www.kazbarsystemsinc.com/products/microphones.html
>>
>> W3C Complaint is;
>> cannot generate system identifier for general entity "id".
>> .ref="http://www.neumann.com/?lang=en&id=current_microphones&cid=u87_descripti
>>
>> I shouldn't really care as it's not my build error, but if they are 
>> failing
>> due to a link (copied straight out of the address bar) there must be a 
>> way
>> to correct it?
>>
>
>Take a quick look through this google search.
>http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=Unencoded+Ampersands&meta=

Hmm, okay, I was thinking down the wrong line- concerned about the php, it's 
just HTML ampersands in the URLs.

Thanks.

-dE|_---

What do you think of the site anyway? Took long enough.

":Jerry:" <INVALID@INVALID.INVALID> wrote in message 
news:g1ricm$ge0$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>
> "dE|_"  wrote in message 
> news:LJb0k.61648$Ht.57880@newsfe05.ams2...
>>
> <snip>
>>
>> Which all fail, and I take it are php 'variables'. So W3C don't approve 
>> of php URLs then? Dickheads.
>>
>
> In many peoples opinions the W3C validator is a guide, not God...

Well it's been solved now, just about ampersands in the URL.

It may not be God (or Allah to be P.C.) but I do state in my CV that my work 
all passes it, and this site is going to the top of my portfolio.

-dE|_---

On May 31, 11:06 pm, "dE|_"  wrote:
> "Chaddy2222"  wrote:
> >> I've just finished a massive task, with a very happy customer, just to go
> >> validate and find out that the URLs to external sites (many of them) are
> >> causing failures that I do not understand.
>
> >> Here's one page holding them;
> >>http://www.kazbarsystemsinc.com/products/microphones.html
>
> >> W3C Complaint is;
> >> cannot generate system identifier for general entity "id".
> >> .ref="http://www.neumann.com/?lang=en&id=current_microphones&cid=u87_descripti
>
> >> I shouldn't really care as it's not my build error, but if they are
> >> failing
> >> due to a link (copied straight out of the address bar) there must be a
> >> way
> >> to correct it?
>
> >Take a quick look through this google search.
> >http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=Unencodedɪ庮욧&meta=
>
> Hmm, okay, I was thinking down the wrong line- concerned about the php, it's
> just HTML ampersands in the URLs.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -dE|_---
>
> What do you think of the site anyway? Took long enough.- Hide quoted text It looks ok overall.
Make sure you set default values for the areas that have a BG image
though, otherwise the text will not be very readable.
What do you think of my main site which I re-designed recently. Well
re-skined would probly be a better term.
--
Regards Chad. http://freewebdesignonline.org

"Chaddy2222"  wrote...
>
> It looks ok overall.
> Make sure you set default values for the areas that have a BG image
> though, otherwise the text will not be very readable.
> What do you think of my main site which I re-designed recently. Well
> re-skined would probly be a better term.
> --
> Regards Chad. http://freewebdesignonline.org

It's clear and spacious but a little blocky and flat, but then I'm a 
Photoshop mentalist and I just remembered you're half blind aren't you.

Bottom of the nav list 'Latest Project' is indented by one character.

Re: default values for the areas that have a BG image; You mean colour to go 
with the image? I thought I had done all that, I'll double check.

-dE|_---

PS on a tangent; Outlook Express doesn't like me replying to you. When I do 
it won't place all the > characters down the side!

dE|_ wrote:

> "Chaddy2222"  wrote...
> >
> > It looks ok overall.
> > Make sure you set default values for the areas that have a BG image
> > though, otherwise the text will not be very readable.
> > What do you think of my main site which I re-designed recently. Well
> > re-skined would probly be a better term.
> > --
> > Regards Chad. http://freewebdesignonline.org
>
> It's clear and spacious but a little blocky and flat, but then I'm a
> Photoshop mentalist and I just remembered you're half blind aren't you.
>
Yes, although my colour vision is still fine.
I have Gimp on this PC but TBH I don't think much at all of the UI.

> Bottom of the nav list 'Latest Project' is indented by one character.
>
Thanks i'lll take a look later.

> Re: default values for the areas that have a BG image; You mean colour to go
> with the image? I thought I had done all that, I'll double check.
I actually have not looked but I sent a similar message to my
university a couple of days ago.
P.S see if you get the > characters in this reply.
--
Regards Chad. http://freewebdesignonline.org

"Chaddy2222"  wrote in message 
news:a87eac64-a099-407f-b1ba-
> P.S see if you get the > characters in this reply.
> --
> Regards Chad. http://freewebdesignonline.org
>

Yes that one worked fine. What did you do for the record?

"Chaddy2222"  wrote in message 
news:a87eac64-a099-407f-b1ba-e4b7b7f79cfa@u6g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
>
>
<snip>
> P.S see if you get the > characters in this reply.

Ok on my box, what changed?

On Sat, 31 May 2008 14:25:04 +0100, dE|_ wrote:
> 
> Well it's been solved now, just about ampersands in the URL.

Were they not entity-encoded as & ?
That's a common mistake, one I've made many times myself.

I'd guess that if you created  a link like
http://www.somsite.com?id=1234£=14<=1$gt=2
some browsers would produce links that certainly weren't what you 
expected. So it does matter, unless you're very careful about your 
variable names.

-- 
Anahata
anahata@treewind.co.uk -+- http://www.treewind.co.uk
Home: 01638 720444         Mob: 07976 263827

:Jerry: wrote:

> "Chaddy2222"  wrote in message
> news:a87eac64-a099-407f-b1ba-e4b7b7f79cfa@u6g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >
> <snip>
> > P.S see if you get the > characters in this reply.
>
> Ok on my box, what changed?
I disabled JS.
--
Regards Chad. http://freewebdesignonline.org

Anahata wrote:

> On Sat, 31 May 2008 14:25:04 +0100, dE|_ wrote:
> >
> > Well it's been solved now, just about ampersands in the URL.
>
> Were they not entity-encoded as & ?
> That's a common mistake, one I've made many times myself.
>
> I'd guess that if you created  a link like
> http://www.somsite.com?id=1234£=14<=1$gt=2
> some browsers would produce links that certainly weren't what you
> expected. So it does matter, unless you're very careful about your
> variable names.
>
That is the case.
Especially with aural browsers (screen readers).

"Anahata"  wrote in message 
news:beydneK59vgj4dzVnZ2dnUVZ8hydnZ2d@plusnet...
> On Sat, 31 May 2008 14:25:04 +0100, dE|_ wrote:
>>
>> Well it's been solved now, just about ampersands in the URL.
>
> Were they not entity-encoded as & ?
> That's a common mistake, one I've made many times myself.

I just cut the URL straight off the address bar from the page I wanted to 
link to and pasted it into my anchor. I wouldn't expect bugs in this 
company's site, they build top-of-the-trade £2k microphones.

I've never produced a site with this many external links before, and I know 
zero about php or it's ampersand filled URLs.

Something new learned : D

-dE|_---

"dE|_"  wrote in message 
news:ryf0k.12461$8z7.6582@newsfe30.ams2...
>
> "Anahata"  wrote in message 
> news:beydneK59vgj4dzVnZ2dnUVZ8hydnZ2d@plusnet...
>> On Sat, 31 May 2008 14:25:04 +0100, dE|_ wrote:
>>>
>>> Well it's been solved now, just about ampersands in the URL.
>>
>> Were they not entity-encoded as & ?
>> That's a common mistake, one I've made many times myself.
>
> I just cut the URL straight off the address bar from the page I 
> wanted to link to and pasted it into my anchor. I wouldn't expect 
> bugs in this company's site, they build top-of-the-trade £2k 
> microphones.
<snip>

AIUI (from an, admittedly, all to brief read-up...), the issue here is 
what the server needs and what the (probably older) browsers needs, 
the address bar URL is correct in that it's what the server needs 
'see' the "&" within the php query but the browser needs 'see' a & 
to know that it needs to render a ampersand (&). There does seem to be 
a conflict here, and how does one (assuming that one is aiming at 
totally valid mark-up code) get the server to output server-side 
generated URLs with '&'s rather than the more usual '&' within the 
text string?

":Jerry:" <INVALID@INVALID.INVALID> writes:

> "dE|_"  wrote in message 
> news:ryf0k.12461$8z7.6582@newsfe30.ams2...
>>
>> "Anahata"  wrote in message 
>> news:beydneK59vgj4dzVnZ2dnUVZ8hydnZ2d@plusnet...
>>> On Sat, 31 May 2008 14:25:04 +0100, dE|_ wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Well it's been solved now, just about ampersands in the URL.
>>>
>>> Were they not entity-encoded as & ?
>>> That's a common mistake, one I've made many times myself.
>>
>> I just cut the URL straight off the address bar from the page I 
>> wanted to link to and pasted it into my anchor. I wouldn't expect 
>> bugs in this company's site, they build top-of-the-trade £2k 
>> microphones.
> <snip>
>
> AIUI (from an, admittedly, all to brief read-up...), the issue here is 
> what the server needs and what the (probably older) browsers needs, 

Not sure age matters here.  The & encoding is mandatory but because
so many web sites are "wrong" even the oldest browsers tried to guess
the intent when they say what looks like an un-encoded href.

> the address bar URL is correct in that it's what the server needs 
> 'see' the "&" within the php query but the browser needs 'see' a & 
> to know that it needs to render a ampersand (&).

OK, if that way of looking at it helps you but I find it confusing.  I
prefer to think of why it has to be done the way the standards say.
Consider how an href attribute containing a e with an acute accent
should be written.  The document may have to be written without the
benefit of accented characters.  The solution is to require character
entities in such places, just as they are required in the text:

href="café" must mean c-a-f-é.  But what if we wanted, for
some obscure reason, to link to c-a-f-&-e-a-c-u-t-e-;?  No problem,
just encode the & of course:  href="cafe&eacute;"

Most browsers guess that if they see an & not followed by a valid
character entity name the & is intended to stand for an actual
ampersand, but it is always a guess.

> There does seem to be 
> a conflict here, and how does one (assuming that one is aiming at 
> totally valid mark-up code) get the server to output server-side 
> generated URLs with '&'s rather than the more usual '&' within the 
> text string? 

I don't see a conflict as such but the server-side code must know what
the data is.  If the attribute contains a character that needs to be
encoded it must do so (all scripting languages have a simple way to do
that).  This is no different to code that generates text: you can't
write <, you must write <.

-- 
Ben.

Message-ID:  from Ben Bacarisse contained the
following:

>
>Most browsers guess that if they see an & not followed by a valid
>character entity name the & is intended to stand for an actual
>ampersand, but it is always a guess.

And vice versa.  IE, for example will decode £ as £ sign whereas FF
will require the trailing semi colon.  This is better behaviour IMV as
it's highly unlikely that a semi colon will be part of a variable name.

For the benefit of Del who is not a coder, we should perhaps explain
that URLs like this are used to pass information to scripts.  For
instance if I wanted to create a variable in my script that contained
the number of cows I have.  I might use the URL

example.com?cow=5

each new variable I add is added using an ampersand

example.com?cow=5&sheep=6

But let's say I also have bulls...

example.com?cow=5&sheep=6&bull=2

In IE that &bull would be translated into a bullet and the variable
would not be passed.  To ensure the ampersand is always an ampersand the
validator requires it to be encoded  &

You may think that the careful coder can avoid such conflicts and indeed
we do.  But there is no knowing that in the future we may have
additional special characters that we don't know about
-- 
Geoff Berrow  0110001001101100010000000110
001101101011011001000110111101100111001011
100110001101101111001011100111010101101011

"Geoff Berrow"  wrote in message 
news:k5q4441ursna4a3hk5hn7skhdpeiob0uq9@4ax.com...
> Message-ID:  from Ben Bacarisse contained the
> following:
>
>>
>>Most browsers guess that if they see an & not followed by a valid
>>character entity name the & is intended to stand for an actual
>>ampersand, but it is always a guess.
>
> And vice versa.  IE, for example will decode £ as £ sign whereas FF
> will require the trailing semi colon.  This is better behaviour IMV as
> it's highly unlikely that a semi colon will be part of a variable name.
>
> For the benefit of Del who is not a coder, we should perhaps explain
> that URLs like this are used to pass information to scripts.  For
> instance if I wanted to create a variable in my script that contained
> the number of cows I have.  I might use the URL
>
> example.com?cow=5
>
> each new variable I add is added using an ampersand
>
> example.com?cow=5&sheep=6
>
> But let's say I also have bulls...
>
> example.com?cow=5&sheep=6&bull=2
>
> In IE that &bull would be translated into a bullet and the variable
> would not be passed.  To ensure the ampersand is always an ampersand the
> validator requires it to be encoded  &
>
> You may think that the careful coder can avoid such conflicts and indeed
> we do.  But there is no knowing that in the future we may have
> additional special characters that we don't know about

Once I found out about the ampersand character rule in URLs, I realised that 
the following letters where being looked at as the 'entity'. But it had 
skipped my mind that they are actually called 'entities', so the validator 
report;

cannot generate system identifier for general entity "id".
.ref="http://www.neumann.com/?lang=en&id=current_microphones&cid=u87_descripti

read more like php problems.

-dE|_---

Message-ID: <c1w0k.41761$%B6.34268@newsfe13.ams2> from dE|_ contained
the following:

>Once I found out about the ampersand character rule in URLs, I realised that 
>the following letters where being looked at as the 'entity'. But it had 
>skipped my mind that they are actually called 'entities', so the validator 
>report;
>
>cannot generate system identifier for general entity "id".
>.ref="http://www.neumann.com/?lang=en&id=current_microphones&cid=u87_descripti
>
>read more like php problems.

Any php code has been interpreted on the server before the HTML ever
hits the validator.  The validator does not 'see' any php code at all.
-- 
Geoff Berrow  0110001001101100010000000110
001101101011011001000110111101100111001011
100110001101101111001011100111010101101011

"Geoff Berrow"  wrote in message 
news:5mj544pd3cmu9vs4qmcaqrv5k799seeasj@4ax.com...
<snip>
>
> Any php code has been interpreted on the server before the HTML ever
> hits the validator.  The validator does not 'see' any php code at 
> all.

Sorry (and I confess that I might just be terminally thick but), 
that's got to be wrong, how else can a URL pass the required php 
variables if it doesn't contain 'php code'?

<uk.net.web.authoring>
<:Jerry:>
<Sun, 1 Jun 2008 18:04:41 +0100>
<g1umdo$o99$1@registered.motzarella.org>

> > Any php code has been interpreted on the server before the HTML ever
> > hits the validator.  The validator does not 'see' any php code at 
> > all.
> 
> Sorry (and I confess that I might just be terminally thick but), 
> that's got to be wrong, how else can a URL pass the required php 
> variables if it doesn't contain 'php code'? 
> 

PHP produces the html code the webpage uses as a end result .

- the web server sees the .php file extension

- the web server searches the .php file for <?php ?> tags

- the web server grabs the php code between the <?php ?> tags and then 
does some under the bonnet black magic to produce the (end result) html 
code it sends to the browser


-- 
(c) The Amazing Krustov

"Krustov"  wrote in message 
news:MPG.22acf8b931b65ad0989686@news.cnntp.org...
> <uk.net.web.authoring>
> <:Jerry:>
> <Sun, 1 Jun 2008 18:04:41 +0100>
> <g1umdo$o99$1@registered.motzarella.org>
>
>> > Any php code has been interpreted on the server before the HTML 
>> > ever
>> > hits the validator.  The validator does not 'see' any php code at
>> > all.
>>
>> Sorry (and I confess that I might just be terminally thick but),
>> that's got to be wrong, how else can a URL pass the required php
>> variables if it doesn't contain 'php code'?
>>
>
> PHP produces the html code the webpage uses as a end result .
>
> - the web server sees the .php file extension
>
> - the web server searches the .php file for <?php ?> tags
>
> - the web server grabs the php code between the <?php ?> tags and 
> then
> does some under the bonnet black magic to produce the (end result) 
> html
> code it sends to the browser
>

But my question was about the php variables passed within a URL, what 
if that html code contains, possibly server side generated, multiple 
php variables in it (such as www.example.com?cow=2&sheep=3&pigs=2), 
whilst I can see that there is a problem with browsers misinterpreting 
ampersands and what follows surely this is a php coding issue and not 
a browser or html issue - IOW the person writing the php should be 
aware of the problem and *not* use a text string as a variable that 
could be misinterpreted whilst the validators should be intelligent 
enough to ignore php variables within a URL?

<uk.net.web.authoring>
<:Jerry:>
<Sun, 1 Jun 2008 19:48:42 +0100>
<g1uquv$au2$1@registered.motzarella.org>

> > PHP produces the html code the webpage uses as a end result .
> >
> > - the web server sees the .php file extension
> >
> > - the web server searches the .php file for <?php ?> tags
> >
> > - the web server grabs the php code between the <?php ?> tags and 
> > then
> > does some under the bonnet black magic to produce the (end result) 
> > html
> > code it sends to the browser
> >
> 
> But my question was about the php variables passed within a URL, what 
> if that html code contains, possibly server side generated, multiple 
> php variables in it (such as www.example.com?cow=2&sheep=3&pigs=2), 
> whilst I can see that there is a problem with browsers misinterpreting 
> ampersands and what follows surely this is a php coding issue and not 
> a browser or html issue
> 

But its not a browser or a php coding issue - its a validator issue .

Your a idiot .


-- 
(c) The Amazing Krustov

"Krustov"  wrote in message 
news:MPG.22ad0509b7528c2c989687@news.cnntp.org...

<snip>

Whhooooosssshhhh....

>
> Your a idiot .
>

Stop talking about yourself Krusty, try reading the thread before 
calling someone else an "idiot"...