Consulting and teaching positions:

    * Do you have several years of hands-on experience in the fields
of usability engineering and human factors?
    * Are you bright, sharp, extremely knowledgeable, and have great
client and interpersonal skills?
    * Do you love the idea of working on fast-paced, diverse,
interesting projects for a variety of companies and organizations
world-wide?
    * Are you interested in teaching the leading-edge and fundamental
principles of usability to others?

http://www.humanfactors.com/about/employment.asp

"HFI offers a full-range of recruiting and placement services. If your
firm is looking for top usability specialists, you can come to us with
confidence. If you are a usability practitioner looking for placement
in a leading company, we can help. And for those individuals who want
to work with a truly international team in an environment focused
entirely on usability, we have frequent openings in our own U.S. and
global offices."
Jim Garrett
Recruiting Manager
Human Factors International

http://www.humanfactors.com/services/recruitment.asp

"RafaMinu"  wrote in message 
news:74339432-7712-401c-a365-9cbe2ae4cbf7@21g2000hsj.googlegroups.com...
> Consulting and teaching positions:
>
>    * Do you have several years of hands-on experience in the fields
> of usability engineering and human factors?
>    * Are you bright, sharp, extremely knowledgeable, and have great
> client and interpersonal skills?
>    * Do you love the idea of working on fast-paced, diverse,
> interesting projects for a variety of companies and organizations
> world-wide?
>    * Are you interested in teaching the leading-edge and fundamental
> principles of usability to others?

Got any positions for rock guitar mentors :o)
www.crackguitar.com

---dE|_---

On Dec 31, 2:51 pm, "dE|_"  wrote:
> "RafaMinu"  wrote in message
>
> news:74339432-7712-401c-a365-9cbe2ae4cbf7@21g2000hsj.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Consulting and teaching positions:
>
> >    * Do you have several years of hands-on experience in the fields
> > of usability engineering and human factors?
> >    * Are you bright, sharp, extremely knowledgeable, and have great
> > client and interpersonal skills?
> >    * Do you love the idea of working on fast-paced, diverse,
> > interesting projects for a variety of companies and organizations
> > world-wide?
> >    * Are you interested in teaching the leading-edge and fundamental> > principles of usability to others?
>
> Got any positions for rock guitar mentors :o)www.crackguitar.com
>
> ---dE|_---

You can try to upload your music and get it reviewed by the We7
Tastemaker community.
All tracks that pass the Tastemaker challenge are made available for
download and if it's good enough you get paid for downloads.

http://www.we7.com/public/artist/index

RafaMinu wrote:
> [spam about] Consulting and teaching positions:
> 
> ...
> Recruiting Manager
> Human Factors International

This bit of spam I don't get.
1. A bona fide HFI representative wouldn't be using a hotmail address
2. HFI should have no need to spam Usenet with this stuff and I can't
fathom them doing it

It's inconceivable to me that this spammer is even remotely associated
with HFI. What benefit could he possibly get out of this?

-- 
Berg

On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 13:00:30 -0600, Bergamot put finger to keyboard
and typed:

>RafaMinu wrote:
>> [spam about] Consulting and teaching positions:
>> 
>> ...
>> Recruiting Manager
>> Human Factors International
>
>This bit of spam I don't get.
>1. A bona fide HFI representative wouldn't be using a hotmail address
>2. HFI should have no need to spam Usenet with this stuff and I can't
>fathom them doing it
>
>It's inconceivable to me that this spammer is even remotely associated
>with HFI. What benefit could he possibly get out of this?

It could be a joe-job. Or it could be an enthusiastic but ignorant
junior member of HFI staff.

Mark
-- 
http://www.BritishSurnames.co.uk - What does your surname say about you?
"We're not the ones who're meant to follow"

On Dec 31, 8:00 pm, Bergamot  wrote:
> RafaMinu wrote:
> > [spam about] Consulting and teaching positions:
>
> > ...
> > Recruiting Manager
> > Human Factors International
>
> This bit of spam I don't get.
> 1. A bona fide HFI representative wouldn't be using a hotmail address
> 2. HFI should have no need to spam Usenet with this stuff and I can't
> fathom them doing it
>
> It's inconceivable to me that this spammer is even remotely associated
> with HFI. What benefit could he possibly get out of this?

And who says I'm a HFI representative?
I find the information interesting and I post it here because it might
be of interest to other people.
What's the problem?

On Dec 31, 8:16 pm, Mark Goodge 
wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 13:00:30 -0600, Bergamot put finger to keyboard
> and typed:
>
> >RafaMinu wrote:
> >> [spam about] Consulting and teaching positions:
>
> >> ...
> >> Recruiting Manager
> >> Human Factors International
>
> >This bit of spam I don't get.
> >1. A bona fide HFI representative wouldn't be using a hotmail address
> >2. HFI should have no need to spam Usenet with this stuff and I can't
> >fathom them doing it
>
> >It's inconceivable to me that this spammer is even remotely associated
> >with HFI. What benefit could he possibly get out of this?
>
> It could be a joe-job. Or it could be an enthusiastic but ignorant
> junior member of HFI staff.

None of the above.

I sincerely fail to see what's wrong with the post.

Please, explain what it is that bothers you so much.

RafaMinu wrote:
>> It could be a joe-job. Or it could be an enthusiastic but ignorant
>> junior member of HFI staff.
> 
> None of the above.
> 
> I sincerely fail to see what's wrong with the post.
> 
> Please, explain what it is that bothers you so much.
> 
> 

Because it's SPAM, that's why.  And why would you post it unless you're 
either a junior member of the HFI staff, or doing a joe-job?

I hope they can you.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

RafaMinu wrote:
> On Dec 31, 8:00 pm, Bergamot  wrote:
>> RafaMinu wrote:
>>> [spam about] Consulting and teaching positions:
>>> ...
>>> Recruiting Manager
>>> Human Factors International
>> This bit of spam I don't get.
>> 1. A bona fide HFI representative wouldn't be using a hotmail address
>> 2. HFI should have no need to spam Usenet with this stuff and I can't
>> fathom them doing it
>>
>> It's inconceivable to me that this spammer is even remotely associated
>> with HFI. What benefit could he possibly get out of this?
> 
> And who says I'm a HFI representative?
> I find the information interesting and I post it here because it might
> be of interest to other people.
> What's the problem?
> 

Yea... right.

Someone who never posted in these newsgroups before all of a sudden 
starts posting SPAM?

You must be a joe-jobber.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

RafaMinu wrote:
> On Dec 31, 8:16 pm, Mark Goodge 
> wrote:
>> On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 13:00:30 -0600, Bergamot put finger to keyboard
>> and typed:
>>
>>> RafaMinu wrote:
>>>> [spam about] Consulting and teaching positions:
>>>> ...
>>>> Recruiting Manager
>>>> Human Factors International
>>> This bit of spam I don't get.
>>> 1. A bona fide HFI representative wouldn't be using a hotmail address
>>> 2. HFI should have no need to spam Usenet with this stuff and I can't
>>> fathom them doing it
>>> It's inconceivable to me that this spammer is even remotely associated
>>> with HFI. What benefit could he possibly get out of this?
>> It could be a joe-job. Or it could be an enthusiastic but ignorant
>> junior member of HFI staff.
> 
> None of the above.
> 
> I sincerely fail to see what's wrong with the post.
> 
> Please, explain what it is that bothers you so much.

The explanation above looked pretty clear to me. Are you asking him to 
repeat it?

On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 21:57:48 +0100, Jerry Stuckle  
 wrote:
> RafaMinu wrote:
>> On Dec 31, 8:00 pm, Bergamot  wrote:
>>> RafaMinu wrote:
>>>> [spam about] Consulting and teaching positions:
>>>> ...
>>>> Recruiting Manager
>>>> Human Factors International
>>> This bit of spam I don't get.
>>> 1. A bona fide HFI representative wouldn't be using a hotmail address
>>> 2. HFI should have no need to spam Usenet with this stuff and I can't
>>> fathom them doing it
>>>
>>> It's inconceivable to me that this spammer is even remotely associated
>>> with HFI. What benefit could he possibly get out of this?
>>  And who says I'm a HFI representative?
>> I find the information interesting and I post it here because it might
>> be of interest to other people.
>> What's the problem?
>>
>
> Yea... right.
>
> Someone who never posted in these newsgroups before all of a sudden  
> starts posting SPAM?

I have a feeling he has posted before. It's not for nothing he got caught  
in my spam filters...

-- 
Rik Wasmus

RafaMinu wrote:
> On Dec 31, 8:00 pm, Bergamot  wrote:
>> RafaMinu wrote:
>>> [spam about] Consulting and teaching positions:
>>> ...
>>> Recruiting Manager
>>> Human Factors International
>> This bit of spam I don't get.
>> 1. A bona fide HFI representative wouldn't be using a hotmail address
>> 2. HFI should have no need to spam Usenet with this stuff and I can't
>> fathom them doing it
>>
>> It's inconceivable to me that this spammer is even remotely associated
>> with HFI. What benefit could he possibly get out of this?
> 
> And who says I'm a HFI representative?
> I find the information interesting and I post it here because it might
> be of interest to other people.
> What's the problem?

It's unusual for people to read an ad for some arbitrary service with 
which they have no affiliation and to be seized by the urge to place a 
note about it in multiple Usenet newsgroups in which they don't 
participate purely for the benefit of people they don't know. It isn't 
unreasonable in these cases to suspect that the note is a more-or-less 
disguised ad posted by a person who stands to benefit, directly or 
indirectly, from the posting.

One time I saw a real idiot pull a stunt where he made himself out to be 
an ordinary consumer just like us who had discovered this fantastic 
product that he felt he had to share with us. He got really quiet after 
someone pointed out to him that the message's headers revealed that it 
had come from the very company that he was pretending only to have 
happened upon.

RafaMinu wrote:
> On Dec 31, 8:00 pm, Bergamot  wrote:
>> RafaMinu wrote:
>> > [spam about] Consulting and teaching positions:
>>
>> It's inconceivable to me that this spammer is even remotely associated
>> with HFI. What benefit could he possibly get out of this?
> 
> And who says I'm a HFI representative?

No one. You never identified yourself in any way, which made it
suspicious from the get-go. If you were a regular in these newsgroups,
it would still be spam but the ensuing discussion probably would have
taken a different turn.

> What's the problem?

Clue deficiency?

-- 
Berg

RafaMinu  wrote in message:
f14fe715-0a80-4630-8240-fe745415881f@1g2000hsl.googlegroups.com,

> On Dec 31, 8:00 pm, Bergamot  wrote:
>> RafaMinu wrote:
>>> [spam about] Consulting and teaching positions:
>>
>>> ...
>>> Recruiting Manager
>>> Human Factors International
>>
>> This bit of spam I don't get.
>> 1. A bona fide HFI representative wouldn't be using a hotmail address
>> 2. HFI should have no need to spam Usenet with this stuff and I can't
>> fathom them doing it
>>
>> It's inconceivable to me that this spammer is even remotely
>> associated with HFI. What benefit could he possibly get out of this?
>
> And who says I'm a HFI representative?
> I find the information interesting and I post it here because it might
> be of interest to other people.
> What's the problem?

Besides the fact that your message is essentially unsolicted advertising 
and as such is unwelcome here, it appears as if you signed someone 
else's name to it.

"Jim Garrett
Recruiting Manager
Human Factors International"

Jim Garrett is located in Iowa
Your IP indicates that you are located in Spain.

And as was pointed out by someone else:
"It's unusual for people to read an ad for some arbitrary service with
which they have no affiliation and to be seized by the urge to place a
note about it in multiple Usenet newsgroups in which they don't
participate purely for the benefit of people they don't know."

It's not just unusual, but rather unheard of. This sort of thing (to 
this extent) is never done by a disinterested third party. There's 
always a hidden agenda.

-- 
Red

"Harlan Messinger" wrote in message 
news:5tt4c3F1fblqqU1@mid.individual.net...
> RafaMinu wrote:
>> On Dec 31, 8:00 pm, Bergamot  wrote:
>>> RafaMinu wrote:
>>>> [spam about] Consulting and teaching positions:
>>>> ...
>>>> Recruiting Manager
>>>> Human Factors International
>>> This bit of spam I don't get.
>>> 1. A bona fide HFI representative wouldn't be using a hotmail address
>>> 2. HFI should have no need to spam Usenet with this stuff and I can't
>>> fathom them doing it
>>>
>>> It's inconceivable to me that this spammer is even remotely associated
>>> with HFI. What benefit could he possibly get out of this?
>>
>> And who says I'm a HFI representative?
>> I find the information interesting and I post it here because it might
>> be of interest to other people.
>> What's the problem?
>
> It's unusual for people to read an ad for some arbitrary service with 
> which they have no affiliation and to be seized by the urge to place a 
> note about it in multiple Usenet newsgroups in which they don't 
> participate purely for the benefit of people they don't know. It isn't 
> unreasonable in these cases to suspect that the note is a more-or-less 
> disguised ad posted by a person who stands to benefit, directly or 
> indirectly, from the posting.

And then when I pulled a sarcy reply, I get a wonderful and highly 
informative one back.

Hmm...

On Dec 31 2007, 9:56 pm, Jerry Stuckle 
wrote:
> RafaMinu wrote:
> >> It could be a joe-job. Or it could be an enthusiastic but ignorant
> >> junior member of HFI staff.
>
> > None of the above.
>
> > I sincerely fail to see what's wrong with the post.
>
> > Please, explain what it is that bothers you so much.
>
> Because it's SPAM, that's why.  
It's NOT SPAM.
Just because.

> And why would you post it unless you're
> either a junior member of the HFI staff, or doing a joe-job?
Because I feel like posting it, that's why.

On Jan 1, 1:07 am, "Red E. Kilowatt" 
wrote:
> RafaMinu  wrote in message:
>
> f14fe715-0a80-4630-8240-fe7454158...@1g2000hsl.googlegroups.com,
>
>
>
> > On Dec 31, 8:00 pm, Bergamot  wrote:
> >> RafaMinu wrote:
> >>> [spam about] Consulting and teaching positions:
>
> >>> ...
> >>> Recruiting Manager
> >>> Human Factors International
>
> >> This bit of spam I don't get.
> >> 1. A bona fide HFI representative wouldn't be using a hotmail address
> >> 2. HFI should have no need to spam Usenet with this stuff and I can't
> >> fathom them doing it
>
> >> It's inconceivable to me that this spammer is even remotely
> >> associated with HFI. What benefit could he possibly get out of this?
>
> > And who says I'm a HFI representative?
> > I find the information interesting and I post it here because it might
> > be of interest to other people.
> > What's the problem?
>
> Besides the fact that your message is essentially unsolicted advertising
It's NOT unsolicted advertising.
I have nothing to do with Human Factors International or We7.

> and as such is unwelcome here, it appears as if you signed someone
> else's name to it.
>
> "Jim Garrett
> Recruiting Manager
> Human Factors International"
Do you really believe that I quote my own posts and then sign them in
third person?
I mean, really, what's wrong with you people?

> Jim Garrett is located in Iowa
> Your IP indicates that you are located in Spain.
My IP is not an indication of my location.

> And as was pointed out by someone else:
> "It's unusual for people to read an ad for some arbitrary service with
> which they have no affiliation and to be seized by the urge to place a
> note about it in multiple Usenet newsgroups in which they don't
> participate purely for the benefit of people they don't know."
>
> It's not just unusual, but rather unheard of. This sort of thing (to
> this extent) is never done by a disinterested third party. There's
> always a hidden agenda.

Believe or not the only interest behind the posting is nothing else
than provide useful information.

On Jan 1, 5:54 pm, "dE|_"  wrote:
> "Harlan Messinger" wrote in message
>
> news:5tt4c3F1fblqqU1@mid.individual.net...
>
>
>
> > RafaMinu wrote:
> >> On Dec 31, 8:00 pm, Bergamot  wrote:
> >>> RafaMinu wrote:
> >>>> [spam about] Consulting and teaching positions:
> >>>> ...
> >>>> Recruiting Manager
> >>>> Human Factors International
> >>> This bit of spam I don't get.
> >>> 1. A bona fide HFI representative wouldn't be using a hotmail address
> >>> 2. HFI should have no need to spam Usenet with this stuff and I can't
> >>> fathom them doing it
>
> >>> It's inconceivable to me that this spammer is even remotely associated> >>> with HFI. What benefit could he possibly get out of this?
>
> >> And who says I'm a HFI representative?
> >> I find the information interesting and I post it here because it might
> >> be of interest to other people.
> >> What's the problem?
>
> > It's unusual for people to read an ad for some arbitrary service with
> > which they have no affiliation and to be seized by the urge to place a
> > note about it in multiple Usenet newsgroups in which they don't
> > participate purely for the benefit of people they don't know. It isn't
> > unreasonable in these cases to suspect that the note is a more-or-less
> > disguised ad posted by a person who stands to benefit, directly or
> > indirectly, from the posting.
>
> And then when I pulled a sarcy reply, I get a wonderful and highly
> informative one back.

Glad you liked it.

Keep us posted on your progress.

BTW, Peter Gabriel is behind We7, and no, I'm not friend of his, I
wish I were ...

RafaMinu wrote:
> On Dec 31 2007, 9:56 pm, Jerry Stuckle 
> wrote:
>> RafaMinu wrote:
>>>> It could be a joe-job. Or it could be an enthusiastic but ignorant
>>>> junior member of HFI staff.
>>> None of the above.
>>> I sincerely fail to see what's wrong with the post.
>>> Please, explain what it is that bothers you so much.
>> Because it's SPAM, that's why.  
> It's NOT SPAM.
> Just because.
>

Sorry, it's SPAM - plain and simple.  See the FAQ's for the groups 
you're posting in - most do not like ads.

>> And why would you post it unless you're
>> either a junior member of the HFI staff, or doing a joe-job?
> Because I feel like posting it, that's why.
> 

Typical response for a spammer - especially a stoopid one.

But your joe-job doesn't work.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

RafaMinu wrote:
> On Jan 1, 1:07 am, "Red E. Kilowatt" 
> wrote:
>> RafaMinu  wrote in message:
>>
>> f14fe715-0a80-4630-8240-fe7454158...@1g2000hsl.googlegroups.com,
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Dec 31, 8:00 pm, Bergamot  wrote:
>>>> RafaMinu wrote:
>>>>> [spam about] Consulting and teaching positions:
>>>>> ...
>>>>> Recruiting Manager
>>>>> Human Factors International
>>>> This bit of spam I don't get.
>>>> 1. A bona fide HFI representative wouldn't be using a hotmail address
>>>> 2. HFI should have no need to spam Usenet with this stuff and I can't
>>>> fathom them doing it
>>>> It's inconceivable to me that this spammer is even remotely
>>>> associated with HFI. What benefit could he possibly get out of this?
>>> And who says I'm a HFI representative?
>>> I find the information interesting and I post it here because it might
>>> be of interest to other people.
>>> What's the problem?
>> Besides the fact that your message is essentially unsolicted advertising
> It's NOT unsolicted advertising.
> I have nothing to do with Human Factors International or We7.
> 
>> and as such is unwelcome here, it appears as if you signed someone
>> else's name to it.
>>
>> "Jim Garrett
>> Recruiting Manager
>> Human Factors International"
> Do you really believe that I quote my own posts and then sign them in
> third person?
> I mean, really, what's wrong with you people?
> 
>> Jim Garrett is located in Iowa
>> Your IP indicates that you are located in Spain.
> My IP is not an indication of my location.
> 
>> And as was pointed out by someone else:
>> "It's unusual for people to read an ad for some arbitrary service with
>> which they have no affiliation and to be seized by the urge to place a
>> note about it in multiple Usenet newsgroups in which they don't
>> participate purely for the benefit of people they don't know."
>>
>> It's not just unusual, but rather unheard of. This sort of thing (to
>> this extent) is never done by a disinterested third party. There's
>> always a hidden agenda.
> 
> Believe or not the only interest behind the posting is nothing else
> than provide useful information.
> 

ROFLMAO!  How stoopid do you think we are, spammer?

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

On Tue, 1 Jan 2008 17:48:59 -0800 (PST), RafaMinu put finger to
keyboard and typed:

>On Jan 1, 1:07 am, "Red E. Kilowatt" 
>wrote:
>>
>> Besides the fact that your message is essentially unsolicted advertising
>It's NOT unsolicted advertising.

Of coruse it is. You did read the charters and/or FAQs of the groups
you posted to in order to check that advertising was permissible there
before posting, didn't you? 

No, you didn't. And how do I know you didn't? Because at least one of
the groups you posted to forbids advertising. So in at least one of
the groups your post was unsolicited advertising.

>Believe or not the only interest behind the posting is nothing else
>than provide useful information.

Then do you now accept that posting it was a mistake and promise not
to do it again?

Mark
-- 
Blog: http://Mark.Goodge.co.uk   Photos: http://www.goodge.co.uk
"I feel these four walls closing in"

"RafaMinu"  wrote in message 
news:bc7ab215-7bc2-46e4-82c1-6e353a8abdaa@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 1, 1:07 am, "Red E. Kilowatt" 

>> It's not just unusual, but rather unheard of. This sort of thing (to
>> this extent) is never done by a disinterested third party. There's
>> always a hidden agenda.

>Believe or not the only interest behind the posting is nothing else
>than provide useful information.

Hey, that was the defense one of those convicted spammers used.
He said he was providing a public information service.
Too bad for him, the judge didn't go for it.

RafaMinu wrote:
>> >>> [spam about] Consulting and teaching positions:
>> >>> ...
>> >>> Recruiting Manager
>> >>> Human Factors International
> 
> Believe or not the only interest behind the posting is nothing else
> than provide useful information.

What makes HFI's job openings different or more useful than the other
zillion job postings out there? You aren't going to spam Usenet with all
of them, are you?

-- 
Berg

Mark Goodge wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Jan 2008 17:48:59 -0800 (PST), RafaMinu put finger to
> keyboard and typed:
> 
>> On Jan 1, 1:07 am, "Red E. Kilowatt" 
>> wrote:
>>> Besides the fact that your message is essentially unsolicted advertising
>> It's NOT unsolicted advertising.
> 
> Of coruse it is. You did read the charters and/or FAQs of the groups
> you posted to in order to check that advertising was permissible there
> before posting, didn't you? 
> 
> No, you didn't. And how do I know you didn't? Because at least one of
> the groups you posted to forbids advertising. So in at least one of
> the groups your post was unsolicited advertising.

"Solicited" doesn't mean "permitted". The posting was *unsolicited* in 
*all* the newsgroups. That is, unless some participant in all these 
newsgroups contacted this person beforehand and requested, "Hey, could 
you please post an ad for some service?"

On Jan 3, 2:48 am, Bergamot  wrote:
> RafaMinu wrote:
> >> >>> [spam about] Consulting and teaching positions:
> >> >>> ...
> >> >>> Recruiting Manager
> >> >>> Human Factors International
>
> > Believe or not the only interest behind the posting is nothing else
> > than provide useful information.
>
> What makes HFI's job openings different or more useful than the other
> zillion job postings out there? You aren't going to spam Usenet with all
> of them, are you?

The very nature of the job offered is what makes it different.
It's all about accessibility and usability. A most interesting topic
and related to ALL Groups posted.
I just wish this thread would focus on that topic.
If you want to discuss about SPAM, then you should focus your
attention to the hundreds of SPAM messages posted on this Group on a
regular basis.

RafaMinu wrote:
> On Jan 3, 2:48 am, Bergamot  wrote:
>> RafaMinu wrote:
>>>>>>> [spam about] Consulting and teaching positions:
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> Recruiting Manager
>>>>>>> Human Factors International
>>> Believe or not the only interest behind the posting is nothing else
>>> than provide useful information.
>> What makes HFI's job openings different or more useful than the other
>> zillion job postings out there? You aren't going to spam Usenet with all
>> of them, are you?
> 
> The very nature of the job offered is what makes it different.
> It's all about accessibility and usability. A most interesting topic
> and related to ALL Groups posted.
> I just wish this thread would focus on that topic.
> If you want to discuss about SPAM, then you should focus your
> attention to the hundreds of SPAM messages posted on this Group on a
> regular basis.
> 

No, it doesn't.  There are zillions of other job postings of similar types.

You're just a spammer.  Nothing more, nothing less.

And we're not talking about other spammers.  We're talking about YOU.

We are focusing on the topic - YOUR SPAM.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

On Jan 3, 1:51 pm, Jerry Stuckle  wrote:
> RafaMinu wrote:
> > On Jan 3, 2:48 am, Bergamot  wrote:
> >> RafaMinu wrote:
> >>>>>>> [spam about] Consulting and teaching positions:
> >>>>>>> ...
> >>>>>>> Recruiting Manager
> >>>>>>> Human Factors International
> >>> Believe or not the only interest behind the posting is nothing else
> >>> than provide useful information.
> >> What makes HFI's job openings different or more useful than the other
> >> zillion job postings out there? You aren't going to spam Usenet with all
> >> of them, are you?
>
> > The very nature of the job offered is what makes it different.
> > It's all about accessibility and usability. A most interesting topic
> > and related to ALL Groups posted.
> > I just wish this thread would focus on that topic.
> > If you want to discuss about SPAM, then you should focus your
> > attention to the hundreds of SPAM messages posted on this Group on a
> > regular basis.
>
> No, it doesn't.  There are zillions of other job postings of similar types.
Untrue.
Show me just one.

> You're just a spammer.  Nothing more, nothing less.
>
> And we're not talking about other spammers.  We're talking about YOU.
>
> We are focusing on the topic - YOUR SPAM.
Wrong.
The topic I started is about accesibilty job openings.
Alternatively I offered some advice to a novel musician.
Your replies are the ones that are utterly off-topic and not welcomed.
If you are interested in SPAM, I suggest you stay away from this
thread and get into one of the zillion SPAM messages available
somewhere else.

On Jan 3, 5:46 am, RafaMinu  wrote:
> On Jan 3, 2:48 am, Bergamot  wrote:
>
> > RafaMinu wrote:
> > >> >>> [spam about] Consulting and teaching positions:
> > >> >>> ...
> > >> >>> Recruiting Manager
> > >> >>> Human Factors International
>
> > > Believe or not the only interest behind the posting is nothing else
> > > than provide useful information.
>
> > What makes HFI's job openings different or more useful than the other
> > zillion job postings out there? You aren't going to spam Usenet with all
> > of them, are you?
>
> The very nature of the job offered is what makes it different.
> It's all about accessibility and usability. A most interesting topic
> and related to ALL Groups posted.

Then why didn't you post this message in comp.human-factors?  Why
didn't you cross-post it to any of the many software development
newsgroups? Why only comp.lang.php? Why not any of the Java or ASP
newsgroups?

Since I personally know some of the people at HFI, I'll be sure to let
them know about your posts.

Karl

RafaMinu wrote:
> On Jan 3, 1:51 pm, Jerry Stuckle  wrote:
>> RafaMinu wrote:
>>> On Jan 3, 2:48 am, Bergamot  wrote:
>>>> RafaMinu wrote:
>>>>>>>>> [spam about] Consulting and teaching positions:
>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>> Recruiting Manager
>>>>>>>>> Human Factors International
>>>>> Believe or not the only interest behind the posting is nothing else
>>>>> than provide useful information.
>>>> What makes HFI's job openings different or more useful than the other
>>>> zillion job postings out there? You aren't going to spam Usenet with all
>>>> of them, are you?
>>> The very nature of the job offered is what makes it different.
>>> It's all about accessibility and usability. A most interesting topic
>>> and related to ALL Groups posted.
>>> I just wish this thread would focus on that topic.
>>> If you want to discuss about SPAM, then you should focus your
>>> attention to the hundreds of SPAM messages posted on this Group on a
>>> regular basis.
>> No, it doesn't.  There are zillions of other job postings of similar types.
> Untrue.
> Show me just one.
>

Just google.  You'll find them all over the place.

>> You're just a spammer.  Nothing more, nothing less.
>>
>> And we're not talking about other spammers.  We're talking about YOU.
>>
>> We are focusing on the topic - YOUR SPAM.
> Wrong.
> The topic I started is about accesibilty job openings.
> Alternatively I offered some advice to a novel musician.
> Your replies are the ones that are utterly off-topic and not welcomed.
> If you are interested in SPAM, I suggest you stay away from this
> thread and get into one of the zillion SPAM messages available
> somewhere else.
> 

The topic you started is SPAM.  Nothing more, nothing less.  And we're 
discussing your SPAM.

Get lost, SPAMMER.  Your kind are not welcome here.

And I and others will keep telling you that until you get it through 
your thick skull.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

On Jan 3, 5:46 am, RafaMinu  wrote:

> If you want to discuss about SPAM, then you should focus your
> attention to the hundreds of SPAM messages posted on this Group on a
> regular basis.

On AWW, there are several regular posters who do go after spammers
like you on a regular basis. This, IMO, is why the signal-to-noise
ratio is much better on AWW than several other groups I read.
misc.fitness.weights is a prime example of what happens when regs
don't stand and fight against kooks, trolls, and spammers.

Karl

On Jan 3, 2:12 pm, KarlCore  wrote:
> On Jan 3, 5:46 am, RafaMinu  wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jan 3, 2:48 am, Bergamot  wrote:
>
> > > RafaMinu wrote:
> > > >> >>> [spam about] Consulting and teaching positions:
> > > >> >>> ...
> > > >> >>> Recruiting Manager
> > > >> >>> Human Factors International
>
> > > > Believe or not the only interest behind the posting is nothing else
> > > > than provide useful information.
>
> > > What makes HFI's job openings different or more useful than the other
> > > zillion job postings out there? You aren't going to spam Usenet with all
> > > of them, are you?
>
> > The very nature of the job offered is what makes it different.
> > It's all about accessibility and usability. A most interesting topic
> > and related to ALL Groups posted.
>
> Then why didn't you post this message in comp.human-factors?  Why
> didn't you cross-post it to any of the many software development
> newsgroups? Why only comp.lang.php? Why not any of the Java or ASP
> newsgroups?

I made a search for accessibility in Google Groups and I came up with
these first:
alt.www.webmaster,  alt.html,  uk.net.web.authoring,  comp.lang.php,
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html
I didn't know about the existence of that group, but are you implying
that I should post the same message to comp.human-factors?
As I see that group focuses on issues related to human-computer
interaction (HCI). Not sure if it'd be appropriate for this kind of
post.
In any case, that would be multi-posting, you know?

> Since I personally know some of the people at HFI, I'll be sure to let
> them know about your posts.
Please do.
Post them my regards as well.

On Jan 3, 2:24 pm, Jerry Stuckle  wrote:
> RafaMinu wrote:
> > On Jan 3, 1:51 pm, Jerry Stuckle  wrote:
> >> RafaMinu wrote:
> >>> On Jan 3, 2:48 am, Bergamot  wrote:
> >>>> RafaMinu wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> [spam about] Consulting and teaching positions:
> >>>>>>>>> ...
> >>>>>>>>> Recruiting Manager
> >>>>>>>>> Human Factors International
> >>>>> Believe or not the only interest behind the posting is nothing else
> >>>>> than provide useful information.
> >>>> What makes HFI's job openings different or more useful than the other> >>>> zillion job postings out there? You aren't going to spam Usenet with all
> >>>> of them, are you?
> >>> The very nature of the job offered is what makes it different.
> >>> It's all about accessibility and usability. A most interesting topic
> >>> and related to ALL Groups posted.
> >>> I just wish this thread would focus on that topic.
> >>> If you want to discuss about SPAM, then you should focus your
> >>> attention to the hundreds of SPAM messages posted on this Group on a
> >>> regular basis.
> >> No, it doesn't.  There are zillions of other job postings of similar types.
> > Untrue.
> > Show me just one.
>
> Just google.  You'll find them all over the place.
>
> >> You're just a spammer.  Nothing more, nothing less.
>
> >> And we're not talking about other spammers.  We're talking about YOU.> >> We are focusing on the topic - YOUR SPAM.
> > Wrong.
> > The topic I started is about accesibilty job openings.
> > Alternatively I offered some advice to a novel musician.
> > Your replies are the ones that are utterly off-topic and not welcomed.
> > If you are interested in SPAM, I suggest you stay away from this
> > thread and get into one of the zillion SPAM messages available
> > somewhere else.
>
> The topic you started is SPAM.  Nothing more, nothing less.  And we're> discussing your SPAM.
>
> Get lost, SPAMMER.  Your kind are not welcome here.
>
> And I and others will keep telling you that until you get it through
> your thick skull.
Please stay focused on the main topic of the thread I started, that
is, Usability Job Opportunities.
Otherwise I ask you politely to go away and pester someone else.

On Jan 3, 2:31 pm, KarlCore  wrote:
> On Jan 3, 5:46 am, RafaMinu  wrote:
>
> > If you want to discuss about SPAM, then you should focus your
> > attention to the hundreds of SPAM messages posted on this Group on a
> > regular basis.
>
> On AWW, there are several regular posters who do go after spammers
> like you on a regular basis. This, IMO, is why the signal-to-noise
> ratio is much better on AWW than several other groups I read.
> misc.fitness.weights is a prime example of what happens when regs
> don't stand and fight against kooks, trolls, and spammers.

What does misc.fitness.weights has to do with accessibility issues?
Are you trying to pull a joke?
Well, let me assure you it's not funny at all.

Since you are unable to contribute anything positive to the thread,
I'm going to add a few more links:

Job Opening for Web Accessibility QA
If you or someone you know has good experience and knowledge in Web
Accessibility, and wants a good job in California (Silicon Valley),
please contact me, Dennis, at webaxe at gmail dot com. The position is
in the QA department for a company that does a financial web
application.
http://webaxe.blogspot.com/2007/06/job-opening-for-web-accessibility-qa.htmlOpen Posts
MIT Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Laboratory
Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Web Accessibility Engineer

European Research Consortium on Informatics and Mathematics (ERCIM)
Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Web Accessibility and Ageing Consultant

http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Recruitment/

Now, if you want to discuss these postings and/or contribute with
other links, please do so.
Otherwise stay off this thread and take your off-topic deviations
somewhere else.

"RafaMinu"  wrote in message 
news:74339432-7712-401c-a365-9cbe2ae4cbf7@21g2000hsj.googlegroups.com...
> Consulting and teaching positions:
>
>    * Do you have several years of hands-on experience in the fields
> of usability engineering and human factors?
>    * Are you bright, sharp, extremely knowledgeable, and have great
> client and interpersonal skills?
>    * Do you love the idea of working on fast-paced, diverse,
> interesting projects for a variety of companies and organizations
> world-wide?
>    * Are you interested in teaching the leading-edge and fundamental
> principles of usability to others?
>
> http://www.humanfactors.com/about/employment.asp
>
> "HFI offers a full-range of recruiting and placement services. If your
> firm is looking for top usability specialists, you can come to us with
> confidence. If you are a usability practitioner looking for placement
> in a leading company, we can help. And for those individuals who want
> to work with a truly international team in an environment focused
> entirely on usability, we have frequent openings in our own U.S. and
> global offices."
> Jim Garrett
> Recruiting Manager
> Human Factors International
>
> http://www.humanfactors.com/services/recruitment.asp


Bearing in mind the MI5 spam, I do think people here are getting a bit 
snotty about this. And even if no one else did , I found the link mildly 
interesting enough to have a look, and it related to web design. Sure it 
eneded up having little interest to me, but so what? Cant see why folks here 
have to be so viscious to this guy, whoever he is or what ever his motive 
for posting is.

AC

On Jan 3, 9:18 am, RafaMinu  wrote:
> On Jan 3, 2:12 pm, KarlCore  wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jan 3, 5:46 am, RafaMinu  wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 3, 2:48 am, Bergamot  wrote:
>
> > > > RafaMinu wrote:
> > > > >> >>> [spam about] Consulting and teaching positions:
> > > > >> >>> ...
> > > > >> >>> Recruiting Manager
> > > > >> >>> Human Factors International
>
> > > > > Believe or not the only interest behind the posting is nothing else
> > > > > than provide useful information.
>
> > > > What makes HFI's job openings different or more useful than the other
> > > > zillion job postings out there? You aren't going to spam Usenet with all
> > > > of them, are you?
>
> > > The very nature of the job offered is what makes it different.
> > > It's all about accessibility and usability. A most interesting topic
> > > and related to ALL Groups posted.
>
> > Then why didn't you post this message in comp.human-factors?  Why
> > didn't you cross-post it to any of the many software development
> > newsgroups? Why only comp.lang.php? Why not any of the Java or ASP
> > newsgroups?
>
> I made a search for accessibility in Google Groups and I came up with
> these first:
> alt.www.webmaster,  alt.html,  uk.net.web.authoring,  comp.lang.php,
> comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html
> I didn't know about the existence of that group, but are you implying
> that I should post the same message to comp.human-factors?
> As I see that group focuses on issues related to human-computer
> interaction (HCI). Not sure if it'd be appropriate for this kind of
> post.

This betrays your complete lack of understanding about what usability
is.

Karl

>"RafaMinu"  wrote
[snip]
>Since you are unable to contribute anything positive to the thread,
>I'm going to add a few more links:
>
>Job Opening for Web Accessibility QA
>If you or someone you know has good experience and knowledge in Web
>Accessibility, and wants a good job in California (Silicon Valley),
>please contact me, Dennis, at webaxe at gmail dot com. The position is
>in the QA department for a company that does a financial web
>application.
>http://webaxe.___________-qa.html
>
>Open Posts
>MIT Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Laboratory
>Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
>Web Accessibility Engineer
>
>European Research Consortium on Informatics and Mathematics (ERCIM)
>Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
>Web Accessibility and Ageing Consultant
>
>http://www.w3.org/_________ecruitment/
>
>Now, if you want to discuss these postings and/or contribute with
>other links, please do so.
>Otherwise stay off this thread and take your off-topic deviations
>somewhere else.

Now you've just gone and got your fingers up in the air in rebellion like a 
kid. "F*ck you I won't do what you tell me"

---dE|_---

"AC"  wrote in message 
news:YF6fj.24089$h35.22788@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
>
> "RafaMinu"  wrote in message 
> news:74339432-7712-401c-a365-9cbe2ae4cbf7@21g2000hsj.googlegroups.com...
>> Consulting and teaching positions:
>>
>>    * Do you have several years of hands-on experience in the fields
>> of usability engineering and human factors?
>>    * Are you bright, sharp, extremely knowledgeable, and have great
>> client and interpersonal skills?
>>    * Do you love the idea of working on fast-paced, diverse,
>> interesting projects for a variety of companies and organizations
>> world-wide?
>>    * Are you interested in teaching the leading-edge and fundamental
>> principles of usability to others?
>>
>> http://www.humanfactors.com/about/employment.asp
>>
>> "HFI offers a full-range of recruiting and placement services. If your
>> firm is looking for top usability specialists, you can come to us with
>> confidence. If you are a usability practitioner looking for placement
>> in a leading company, we can help. And for those individuals who want
>> to work with a truly international team in an environment focused
>> entirely on usability, we have frequent openings in our own U.S. and
>> global offices."
>> Jim Garrett
>> Recruiting Manager
>> Human Factors International
>>
>> http://www.humanfactors.com/services/recruitment.asp
>
>
> Bearing in mind the MI5 spam,

Have you read it? It's not sales spam, that guy's been derranged for 17 
years, he's not going to listen to the loading of a shotgun.

>I do think people here are getting a bit snotty about this. And even if no 
>one else did , I found the link mildly interesting enough to have a look, 
>and it related to web design. Sure it eneded up having little interest to 
>me, but so what? Cant see why folks here have to be so viscious to this 
>guy, whoever he is or what ever his motive for posting is.

Because Rafa was/is trying to take everyone for idiots. Now he's resorting 
to 'Tell me not to do it and I'll do it again'.

I've got a day to get on with now so enjoy yourself.

---dE|_---

On Jan 3, 5:38 pm, "dE|_"  wrote:
> >"RafaMinu"  wrote
> [snip]
> >Since you are unable to contribute anything positive to the thread,
> >I'm going to add a few more links:
>
> >Job Opening for Web Accessibility QA
> >If you or someone you know has good experience and knowledge in Web
> >Accessibility, and wants a good job in California (Silicon Valley),
> >please contact me, Dennis, at webaxe at gmail dot com. The position is
> >in the QA department for a company that does a financial web
> >application.
> >http://webaxe.___________-qa.html
>
> >Open Posts
> >MIT Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Laboratory
> >Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> >Web Accessibility Engineer
>
> >European Research Consortium on Informatics and Mathematics (ERCIM)
> >Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> >Web Accessibility and Ageing Consultant
>
> >http://www.w3.org/_________ecruitment/
>
> >Now, if you want to discuss these postings and/or contribute with
> >other links, please do so.
> >Otherwise stay off this thread and take your off-topic deviations
> >somewhere else.
>
> Now you've just gone and got your fingers up in the air in rebellion like a
> kid. "F*ck you I won't do what you tell me"

Up yours ¡¡¡

RafaMinu wrote:
> On Jan 3, 5:38 pm, "dE|_"  wrote:
>>> "RafaMinu"  wrote
>> [snip]
>>> Since you are unable to contribute anything positive to the thread,
>>> I'm going to add a few more links:
>>> Job Opening for Web Accessibility QA
>>> If you or someone you know has good experience and knowledge in Web
>>> Accessibility, and wants a good job in California (Silicon Valley),
>>> please contact me, Dennis, at webaxe at gmail dot com. The position is
>>> in the QA department for a company that does a financial web
>>> application.
>>> http://webaxe.___________-qa.html
>>> Open Posts
>>> MIT Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Laboratory
>>> Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
>>> Web Accessibility Engineer
>>> European Research Consortium on Informatics and Mathematics (ERCIM)
>>> Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
>>> Web Accessibility and Ageing Consultant
>>> http://www.w3.org/_________ecruitment/
>>> Now, if you want to discuss these postings and/or contribute with
>>> other links, please do so.
>>> Otherwise stay off this thread and take your off-topic deviations
>>> somewhere else.
>> Now you've just gone and got your fingers up in the air in rebellion like a
>> kid. "F*ck you I won't do what you tell me"
> 
> Up yours ¡¡¡
> 

You did not start this discussion with usability issues. You started it 
with SPAM.  Plain and simple.  And now you SPAM more.

You aren't going to find anyone to discuss SPAM with you.

And with that attitude, you won't find anyone to discuss ANYTHING with 
you - unless it's another spammer.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

On 3/1/08 5:32 pm, in article woSdnZsPvMPzgeDanZ2dnUVZ_g6dnZ2d@comcast.com,
"Jerry Stuckle"  wrote:

> You did not start this discussion with usability issues. You started it
> with SPAM.  Plain and simple.  And now you SPAM more.
> 
> You aren't going to find anyone to discuss SPAM with you.
> 
> And with that attitude, you won't find anyone to discuss ANYTHING with
> you - unless it's another spammer.

I don't get it.  Why was the original post spam?  Are you saying that there
are no jobs available and that the 'quoted' text is the prime reason for the
post?

Let's say I post the following:

Freelance designers wanted with experience of

* CSS
* xhtml
* Photoshop
* php/MySQL

Redcat Media are a leading edge web design and development agency based in
Hampshire in nice offices with free parking and we're also very good at
search engine optimisation.

Is that spam?  By putting such a blatant plug for my company as an example,
is that double spam?

-- 
Andy Jacobs
http://www.redcatmedia.co.uk

RafaMinu wrote:
>
> Please stay focused on the main topic of the thread I started,

This is Usenet. We are free to discuss your post in any way we see fit.

> that is, Usability Job Opportunities.

The way we see it, the main topic of the thread you started is not
Usability Job Opportunities at all. If it were, you would have made some
additional comments about the field in general, or the ad in particular.
Regardless of your intentions, you came off as the HFI guy spamming Usenet.

> Otherwise I ask you politely to go away and pester someone else.

Perhaps you should quit while you're behind. ;)

-- 
Berg

On Jan 3, 6:32 pm, Jerry Stuckle  wrote:
> RafaMinu wrote:
> > On Jan 3, 5:38 pm, "dE|_"  wrote:
> >>> "RafaMinu"  wrote
> >> [snip]
> >>> Since you are unable to contribute anything positive to the thread,
> >>> I'm going to add a few more links:
> >>> Job Opening for Web Accessibility QA
> >>> If you or someone you know has good experience and knowledge in Web
> >>> Accessibility, and wants a good job in California (Silicon Valley),
> >>> please contact me, Dennis, at webaxe at gmail dot com. The position is> >>> in the QA department for a company that does a financial web
> >>> application.
> >>>http://webaxe.___________-qa.html
> >>> Open Posts
> >>> MIT Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Laboratory
> >>> Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> >>> Web Accessibility Engineer
> >>> European Research Consortium on Informatics and Mathematics (ERCIM)
> >>> Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> >>> Web Accessibility and Ageing Consultant
> >>>http://www.w3.org/_________ecruitment/
> >>> Now, if you want to discuss these postings and/or contribute with
> >>> other links, please do so.
> >>> Otherwise stay off this thread and take your off-topic deviations
> >>> somewhere else.
> >> Now you've just gone and got your fingers up in the air in rebellion like a
> >> kid. "F*ck you I won't do what you tell me"
>
> > Up yours ¡¡¡
>
> You did not start this discussion with usability issues. You started it
> with SPAM.  Plain and simple.  And now you SPAM more.
>
> You aren't going to find anyone to discuss SPAM with you.
>
> And with that attitude, you won't find anyone to discuss ANYTHING with
> you - unless it's another spammer.

It is your attitude the one that is spammish.
Please, stick to the topic at hand, that is, accesibility Job
Oportunities.
You still haven't written a word about that and it is kind of tiring
to read your repetitive spam-like gibberish nonsense.

On Jan 3, 6:57 pm, "Red E. Kilowatt" 
wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle  wrote in message:
>
> woSdnZsPvMPzgeDanZ2dnUVZ_g6dn...@comcast.com,
>
> > RafaMinu wrote:
>
> <the usual spammer justifications>
>
> > You did not start this discussion with usability issues. You started
> > it with SPAM.  Plain and simple.  And now you SPAM more.
>
> And he will continue to do so as long as he's getting attention.

You have to understand that an accessible web is good for all.

Keep in mind that organisations with web sites that are inaccessible
to people with disabilities risk being sued under the 1995 Disability
Discrimination Act.
In a recent survey of 1,000 web sites carried out by the Disability
Rights Commission (DRC), over 80 percent failed basic accessibility
tests, so it looks like most companies are in legal peril.

In essence, the law says that you may not discriminate against
disabled people by refusing to provide them with services that are
otherwise generally available.

I just wish your attention will focus on those issues.

Andy Jacobs wrote:
> On 3/1/08 5:32 pm, in article woSdnZsPvMPzgeDanZ2dnUVZ_g6dnZ2d@comcast.com,
> "Jerry Stuckle"  wrote:
> 
>> You did not start this discussion with usability issues. You started it
>> with SPAM.  Plain and simple.  And now you SPAM more.
>>
>> You aren't going to find anyone to discuss SPAM with you.
>>
>> And with that attitude, you won't find anyone to discuss ANYTHING with
>> you - unless it's another spammer.
> 
> I don't get it.  Why was the original post spam?  Are you saying that there
> are no jobs available and that the 'quoted' text is the prime reason for the
> post?
> 
> Let's say I post the following:
> 
> Freelance designers wanted with experience of
> 
> * CSS
> * xhtml
> * Photoshop
> * php/MySQL
> 
> Redcat Media are a leading edge web design and development agency based in
> Hampshire in nice offices with free parking and we're also very good at
> search engine optimisation.
> 
> Is that spam?  By putting such a blatant plug for my company as an example,
> is that double spam?
> 

Because ads are not wanted on a.w.w.  It's in the FAQ's.  That's what 
a.w.w.a is for.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Andy Jacobs  wrote:

> Let's say I post the following:

Let's say that next time you do so on purpose I (and probably several 
others) /will/ report it as spam. You're quite the hypocrite with your 
nospam@redcatgroup.co.uk.

In short: foad, thank you.

-- 
John Bokma                                      http://johnbokma.com/

On Jan 3, 7:04 pm, Andy Jacobs  wrote:
> On 3/1/08 5:32 pm, in article woSdnZsPvMPzgeDanZ2dnUVZ_g6dn...@comcast.com> "Jerry Stuckle"  wrote:
> > You did not start this discussion with usability issues. You started it
> > with SPAM.  Plain and simple.  And now you SPAM more.
>
> > You aren't going to find anyone to discuss SPAM with you.
>
> > And with that attitude, you won't find anyone to discuss ANYTHING with
> > you - unless it's another spammer.
>
> I don't get it.  Why was the original post spam?  Are you saying that there
> are no jobs available and that the 'quoted' text is the prime reason for the
> post?
>
> Let's say I post the following:
>
> Freelance designers wanted with experience of
>
> * CSS
> * xhtml
> * Photoshop
> * php/MySQL
>
> Redcat Media are a leading edge web design and development agency based in> Hampshire in nice offices with free parking and we're also very good at
> search engine optimisation.
>
> Is that spam?  By putting such a blatant plug for my company as an example,
> is that double spam?
>
> --
> Andy Jacobshttp://www.redcatmedia.co.uk

Well Andy, kind of ...
It would had not been had you mentioned that your site validates
correctly and that it is completely accessible, which incidentally
happens to be true.

RafaMinu wrote:
> On Jan 3, 6:32 pm, Jerry Stuckle  wrote:
>> RafaMinu wrote:
>>> On Jan 3, 5:38 pm, "dE|_"  wrote:
>>>>> "RafaMinu"  wrote
>>>> [snip]
>>>>> Since you are unable to contribute anything positive to the thread,
>>>>> I'm going to add a few more links:
>>>>> Job Opening for Web Accessibility QA
>>>>> If you or someone you know has good experience and knowledge in Web
>>>>> Accessibility, and wants a good job in California (Silicon Valley),
>>>>> please contact me, Dennis, at webaxe at gmail dot com. The position is
>>>>> in the QA department for a company that does a financial web
>>>>> application.
>>>>> http://webaxe.___________-qa.html
>>>>> Open Posts
>>>>> MIT Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Laboratory
>>>>> Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
>>>>> Web Accessibility Engineer
>>>>> European Research Consortium on Informatics and Mathematics (ERCIM)
>>>>> Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
>>>>> Web Accessibility and Ageing Consultant
>>>>> http://www.w3.org/_________ecruitment/
>>>>> Now, if you want to discuss these postings and/or contribute with
>>>>> other links, please do so.
>>>>> Otherwise stay off this thread and take your off-topic deviations
>>>>> somewhere else.
>>>> Now you've just gone and got your fingers up in the air in rebellion like a
>>>> kid. "F*ck you I won't do what you tell me"
>>> Up yours ¡¡¡
>> You did not start this discussion with usability issues. You started it
>> with SPAM.  Plain and simple.  And now you SPAM more.
>>
>> You aren't going to find anyone to discuss SPAM with you.
>>
>> And with that attitude, you won't find anyone to discuss ANYTHING with
>> you - unless it's another spammer.
> 
> It is your attitude the one that is spammish.
> Please, stick to the topic at hand, that is, accesibility Job
> Oportunities.
> You still haven't written a word about that and it is kind of tiring
> to read your repetitive spam-like gibberish nonsense.
> 

The topic at hand is your SPAMMING.  We are discussing it.

This is usenet.  We'll discuss your SPAM any way we want.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

On 3/1/08 6:40 pm, in article Xns9A1A80F09970Bcastleamber@130.133.1.4, "John
Bokma"  wrote:

> Andy Jacobs  wrote:
> 
>> Let's say I post the following:
> 
> Let's say that next time you do so on purpose I (and probably several
> others) /will/ report it as spam. You're quite the hypocrite with your
> nospam@redcatgroup.co.uk.
> 
> In short: foad, thank you.

Sorry, did I miss the news about you being made god of usenet?

I was asking a genuine question about a thread which seems to have got out
of hand.  I post regularly and even my signature is concise and to the
point.

Now if you can't answer that question properly or conduct yourself with some
humility and civility you might want to foad yourself.

-- 
Andy Jacobs
http://www.redcatmedia.co.uk

Andy Jacobs wrote:
> Let's say I post the following:

<hypothetical job offer snipped>

> Is that spam?

Usenet tradition says that job related posts only belong in groups set 
up for that purpose. However one may define spam, help wanted posts are 
off-topic in most newsgroups, including AWW.

RafaMinu wrote:
> 
> I'm going to add a few more links:
> 
> Job Opening for Web Accessibility QA

You don't seem to get that these newsgroups aren't job boards.

> take your off-topic deviations somewhere else.

Why not follow your own advice? If you aren't going to do anything more
than post job openings, take it somewhere else.

Did it ever occur to you that those who have the skills needed for these
types of positions already know where to look for jobs? That's assuming
they even need one. Most people in these groups aren't qualified for
those types of jobs either, even if they are usability or accessibility
advocates. I bet the companies involved wouldn't be thrilled to get a
flood of unqualified applicants resulting from your posts.

You're not doing them any favors, or us.

-- 
Berg

AC wrote:

> Bearing in mind the MI5 spam, I do think people here are getting a bit 
> snotty about this. And even if no one else did , I found the link mildly 
> interesting enough to have a look, and it related to web design. Sure it 
> eneded up having little interest to me, but so what? Cant see why folks here 
> have to be so viscious to this guy, whoever he is or what ever his motive 
> for posting is.

Because this guy, instead of accepting being told, "This is activity 
falls outside of the guidelines for use of these newsgroups," has no end 
of excuses why the rules don't apply to him.

["Followup-To:" header set to alt.www.webmaster.]
On 2008-01-03, Harlan Messinger  wrote:
> AC wrote:
>
>> Bearing in mind the MI5 spam, I do think people here are getting a bit 
>> snotty about this. And even if no one else did , I found the link mildly 
>> interesting enough to have a look, and it related to web design. Sure it 
>> eneded up having little interest to me, but so what? Cant see why folks here 
>> have to be so viscious to this guy, whoever he is or what ever his motive 
>> for posting is.
>
> Because this guy, instead of accepting being told, "This is activity 
> falls outside of the guidelines for use of these newsgroups," has no end 
> of excuses why the rules don't apply to him.

...and updates his posts to get around filters. 

He's an asshole, and if I was communicating directly with him I probably
wouldn't be very nice to him either.

-- 
Steve Sobol, Victorville, CA     PGP:0xE3AE35ED  www.SteveSobol.com
Geek-for-hire. Details: http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevesobol

RafaMinu  wrote in message:
197cc130-fc8c-4c41-8042-d31af37758cf@21g2000hsj.googlegroups.com,

> You have to understand that an accessible web is good for all.
>
> Keep in mind that organisations with web sites that are inaccessible
> to people with disabilities risk being sued under the 1995 Disability
> Discrimination Act.
> In a recent survey of 1,000 web sites carried out by the Disability
> Rights Commission (DRC), over 80 percent failed basic accessibility
> tests, so it looks like most companies are in legal peril.
>
> In essence, the law says that you may not discriminate against
> disabled people by refusing to provide them with services that are
> otherwise generally available.

First of all, this is all old news and the particular law you cite 
applies only to the UK.

In the US we have the ADA. And that specifies that one should make 
"reasonable accommodation." That can vary quite a bit in interpretation, 
or not be applicable at all, depending on the web site in question.

Of course here in the US, our government is a lot less inclined to do 
social engineering by putting requirements on private businesses. And 
that's the way most people here want it.

-- 
Red

On 3/1/08 7:31 pm, in article VrqdnZaz58KJpeDanZ2dnUVZ_gCdnZ2d@comcast.com,
"Scott Bryce"  wrote:

> Andy Jacobs wrote:
>> Let's say I post the following:
> 
> <hypothetical job offer snipped>
> 
>> Is that spam?
> 
> Usenet tradition says that job related posts only belong in groups set
> up for that purpose. However one may define spam, help wanted posts are
> off-topic in most newsgroups, including AWW.

Ok, we're getting very hypothetical and almost a bit silly but what about:

**********************************

I agree

--
Andy
We're great and the best at web design and lots of hyperbole and
superlatives about what we do. Come and buy Viagra here as well and anything
to enlarge/shrink/manipulate any part of your anatomy - www.blah.co.uk

**********************************

Andy Jacobs wrote:
> Ok, we're getting very hypothetical and almost a bit silly but what
> about:
> 
> **********************************
> 
> I agree
> 
> -- Andy We're great and the best at web design and lots of hyperbole
> and superlatives about what we do. Come and buy Viagra here as well
> and anything to enlarge/shrink/manipulate any part of your anatomy -
> www.blah.co.uk
> 
> **********************************


A post that says nothing but "I agree" is bad netiquette. A sig that is
no more than 5 lines of no more than 80 characters each can say pretty
much whatever you want it to say. Plugging your site in your sig is
considered fair game. Making meaningless posts just so that your sig can
be posted may be thought of as spam.

On 3/1/08 9:04 pm, in article PISdnf9pBpBA0ODanZ2dnUVZ_q6mnZ2d@comcast.com,
"Scott Bryce"  wrote:

> Andy Jacobs wrote:
>> Ok, we're getting very hypothetical and almost a bit silly but what
>> about:
>> 
>> **********************************
>> 
>> I agree
>> 
>> -- Andy We're great and the best at web design and lots of hyperbole
>> and superlatives about what we do. Come and buy Viagra here as well
>> and anything to enlarge/shrink/manipulate any part of your anatomy -
>> www.blah.co.uk
>> 
>> **********************************
> 
> 
> A post that says nothing but "I agree" is bad netiquette. A sig that is
> no more than 5 lines of no more than 80 characters each can say pretty
> much whatever you want it to say. Plugging your site in your sig is
> considered fair game. Making meaningless posts just so that your sig can
> be posted may be thought of as spam.

And therein lies the problem.

'may be thought of'

I agree with what you're saying 100% but it's a bit subjective.

-- 
Andy Jacobs
http://www.redcatmedia.co.uk

Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Thu, 03 Jan 2008 16:17:30
GMT KarlCore scribed: 

>> > Then why didn't you post this message in comp.human-factors?  Why
>> > didn't you cross-post it to any of the many software development
>> > newsgroups? Why only comp.lang.php? Why not any of the Java or ASP
>> > newsgroups?
>>
>> I made a search for accessibility in Google Groups and I came up with
>> these first:
>> alt.www.webmaster,  alt.html,  uk.net.web.authoring,  comp.lang.php,
>> comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html
>> I didn't know about the existence of that group, but are you implying
>> that I should post the same message to comp.human-factors?
>> As I see that group focuses on issues related to human-computer
>> interaction (HCI). Not sure if it'd be appropriate for this kind of
>> post.
> 
> This betrays your complete lack of understanding about what usability
> is.

Here here!  Btw, do you have a brother named At The Earth's?

-- 
Neredbojias
Riches are their own reward.

On Jan 3, 8:39 pm, Bergamot  wrote:
> RafaMinu wrote:
>
> > I'm going to add a few more links:
>
> > Job Opening for Web Accessibility QA
>
> You don't seem to get that these newsgroups aren't job boards.
>
> > take your off-topic deviations somewhere else.
>
> Why not follow your own advice? If you aren't going to do anything more
> than post job openings, take it somewhere else.
>
> Did it ever occur to you that those who have the skills needed for these
> types of positions already know where to look for jobs? That's assuming
> they even need one. Most people in these groups aren't qualified for
> those types of jobs either, even if they are usability or accessibility
> advocates. I bet the companies involved wouldn't be thrilled to get a
> flood of unqualified applicants resulting from your posts.
>
> You're not doing them any favors, or us.

I disagree.

There is no doubt that due thanks to the implementation of CSS2, the
world of web development is changing fast, and it is going to change
even more with the implementation of the upcoming WC3, CSS3
recommendations. We are now able to produce web pages that function
very similar and have an almost identical look and feel, regardless of
which web browser you're using.

This means that web developers will spend less time worrying about
cross-browser issues and will spend more time making sure that their
pages validate correctly and conform to Accessibility guidelines.
Web developers are today forced to address Accessibility issues even
if it's only for these two reasons:
- Firstly, there is evidence emerging that search engines are
beginning to give preference to those pages that validate correctly.
- Secondly, in the USA, we are beginning to see successful
prosecutions against public Websites that do not conform to
Accessibility guidelines and this trend will almost certainly develop,
in both the USA and throughout the rest of the developed world.

As for the UK, nearly 75 percent of FTSE 100 company websites fail to
meet the minimum accessibility requirements.
The Disability Rights Commission estimates that there are over 10
million people with disabilities in the UK and by ignoring
accessibility and usability, companies are excluding over £80 billion
in untapped revenue.
Companies just aren't appreciating how important this  issue is.

There are also countless millions of people with conditions that
affect the way they access the Internet, but do not feature on any
register.
For example, people with learning difficulties, Dyslexia, cognitive
impairments, people with glasses or those that have Repetitive Strain
Injury, etc.
All of these groups have the legal right to access the Internet via
the best method for their needs.
By rejecting usability you are actively turning a huge amount of
visitors away and encouraging negative feelings which can end up
damaging the brand entirely as well as leaving yourselves exposed to
legal action.

As you can imagine, there's an urgent need for LOTS of  professionals
that can make those sites accessible.
So, you see, I do believe I am doing them a big favour, and a bigger
favour to all readers of this thread interested in web design/
development.

On Jan 3, 9:46 pm, "Red E. Kilowatt" 
wrote:
> RafaMinu  wrote in message:
>
> 197cc130-fc8c-4c41-8042-d31af3775...@21g2000hsj.googlegroups.com,
>
> > You have to understand that an accessible web is good for all.
>
> > Keep in mind that organisations with web sites that are inaccessible
> > to people with disabilities risk being sued under the 1995 Disability
> > Discrimination Act.
> > In a recent survey of 1,000 web sites carried out by the Disability
> > Rights Commission (DRC), over 80 percent failed basic accessibility
> > tests, so it looks like most companies are in legal peril.
>
> > In essence, the law says that you may not discriminate against
> > disabled people by refusing to provide them with services that are
> > otherwise generally available.
>
> First of all, this is all old news and the particular law you cite
> applies only to the UK.
>
> In the US we have the ADA. And that specifies that one should make
> "reasonable accommodation." That can vary quite a bit in interpretation,
> or not be applicable at all, depending on the web site in question.
>
> Of course here in the US, our government is a lot less inclined to do
> social engineering by putting requirements on private businesses. And
> that's the way most people here want it.

In the US you also have the 1998 Act for Federal agencies.

The Rehabilitation Act Amendments of 1998 significantly expanded and
strengthened the requirements of Section 508. As amended in 1998, the
law directed the Access Board to create binding, enforceable standards
that spell out what makes E & IT products accessible to persons with
disabilities. Federal agencies must use these standards in all their E
& IT acquisitions. The standards make it easier for agencies to meet
their obligation to make technology systems accessible.

Since the legislation was incorporated into the updates to the Federal
Acquisition Regulation (FAR) as published April 25, 2001, agencies'
procurement of accessible technology is subject to the same stringent
compliance and enforcement mechanisms as other parts of the FAR.

The scope of section 508 and the Access Board standards are limited to
the Federal government.

The complaint process is the same as that used for section 504 under
which a person with a disability can allege discrimination on the
basis of disability in Federally conducted programs or activities. The
administrative complaint process allows any individual with a
disability to file a complaint alleging that a Federal department or
agency has not complied with the accessible technology standards in a
procurement made after June 2001.

Section 508 does not permit punitive damage awards. Those who prevail
will win court orders demanding that agencies comply with section 508
and recovery of attorney's fees. Individuals may also file a civil
action against an agency.

Under section 508, Federal agencies must ensure that E & IT is
accessible to employees and members of the public with disabilities. E
& IT includes information technology and equipment or interconnected
system or subsystem of equipment that is used to create, convert, or
duplicate data or information. This includes, but is not limited to,
computers, ancillary equipment, software, telecommunication products,
information kiosks, World Wide Web sites, multimedia, and office
equipment.

Information technology refers specifically to equipment or
interconnected system or subsystem of equipment, that is used in the
automatic acquisition, storage, manipulation, management, movement,
control, display, switching, interchange, transmission, or reception
of data or information.

Section 508 addresses accessibility for people who have:

    * Visual disabilities.
    * Hearing disabilities.
    * Motor disabilities.
    * Speech disabilities.

http://www.section508.gov/

RafaMinu wrote:
> On Jan 3, 8:39 pm, Bergamot  wrote:
>>
>> Most people in these groups aren't qualified for
>> those types of jobs either, even if they are usability or accessibility
>> advocates.

> We are now able to produce web pages that function
> very similar and have an almost identical look and feel, regardless of
> which web browser you're using.

Not that I agree with that statement, but what's that got to do with
anything?

> By rejecting usability

Why do you think any of us are rejecting usability? We are simply
rejecting your post.

> As you can imagine, there's an urgent need for LOTS of  professionals
> that can make those sites accessible.

Did you even read the HFI ad? They're looking for *instructors*. That's
a whole different skill set than just making accessibility improvements
on a web site. I imagine their hiring criteria for consultants is way
above your average self-taught webmaster, too.

BTW, do you even know the difference between usability and accessibility?

> So, you see, I do believe I am doing them a big favour, and a bigger
> favour to all readers of this thread interested in web design/
> development.

Yeah, OK, if you say so. :-\

-- 
Berg

On Jan 4, 9:10 am, Bergamot  wrote:

> Why do you think any of us are rejecting usability? We are simply
> rejecting your post.

It should be obvious by now that this person is a troll.  Killfile
accordingly.

Karl

On Jan 4, 9:19 am, KarlCore  wrote:
> On Jan 4, 9:10 am, Bergamot  wrote:
>
> > Why do you think any of us are rejecting usability? We are simply
> > rejecting your post.
>
> It should be obvious by now that this person is a troll.  Killfile
> accordingly.
>
> Karl

In fact, this is our Spanish friend,  Rafael Martinez-Minuesa, better
known as 1001Webs, who has morphed and returned to troll us.

Personally, I would have thought a 47 year old man would have more to
do than to troll newsgroups, but whatever.

Karl

On Jan 4, 3:10 pm, Bergamot  wrote:
> RafaMinu wrote:
> > On Jan 3, 8:39 pm, Bergamot  wrote:
>
> >> Most people in these groups aren't qualified for
> >> those types of jobs either, even if they are usability or accessibility> >> advocates.
> > We are now able to produce web pages that function
> > very similar and have an almost identical look and feel, regardless of
> > which web browser you're using.
>
> Not that I agree with that statement, but what's that got to do with
> anything?
It was the introductory part.
You seem to veer off the main topic, so I'm trying to center it.

> > By rejecting usability
>
> Why do you think any of us are rejecting usability? We are simply
> rejecting your post.
Part of the introduction, as well.

> > As you can imagine, there's an urgent need for LOTS of  professionals
> > that can make those sites accessible.
>
> Did you even read the HFI ad? They're looking for *instructors*. That's
> a whole different skill set than just making accessibility improvements
> on a web site. I imagine their hiring criteria for consultants is way
> above your average self-taught webmaster, too.
That's why I posted here.
I know there are some people that meet that criteria.

> BTW, do you even know the difference between usability and accessibility?
usability and accessibility are complementary.

> > So, you see, I do believe I am doing them a big favour, and a bigger
> > favour to all readers of this thread interested in web design/
> > development.
>
> Yeah, OK, if you say so. :-\

I'll take that as a thank you.
You're welcome.

On Jan 4, 3:19 pm, KarlCore  wrote:
> On Jan 4, 9:10 am, Bergamot  wrote:
>
> > Why do you think any of us are rejecting usability? We are simply
> > rejecting your post.
>
> It should be obvious by now that this person is a troll.  Killfile
> accordingly.
>
> Karl

Another apprentice of dictator pathetically trying to tell people what
they can or can not read.

On Jan 4, 3:27 pm, KarlCore  wrote:
> On Jan 4, 9:19 am, KarlCore  wrote:
>