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date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 16:26:00 +0100,    group: uk.net.news.moderation        back       
weird or what, take a look at this   
I can't see urcm lasting long if this is typical.  You can see what I
said at the very bottom.

===
Your message has been rejected because it was rude, a flame, and/or
personal abuse.

Please refer to the group charter and moderation policy at
  http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/urcm/
and direct your queries to
  urcm-moderators@chiark.greenend.org.uk

If you have difficulty reaching the moderators (eg due to
spamfiltering) please tell postmaster@chiark.greenend.org.uk.

Thank you,
        - Moderator.

============================================ Full text of your message follows
> From webstump@chiark.greenend.org.uk Sat Oct 17 00:06:18 2009
> Return-path: 
> Envelope-to: webstump+urcm+nmw7gihi@slimy.greenend.org.uk
> Received: from [79.135.125.74] (helo=v-mail-in-4.gradwell.net)
>       by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.36 #1) with esmtp
>       (return-path poster@giganews.com)
>       id 1MyvsI-0001wh-00
>       for webstump+urcm+nmw7gihi@slimy.greenend.org.uk; Sat, 17 Oct 2009 00:06:18 +0100
> X-Gradwell-Mailfilter: SpamAssassin hits were AWL BAYES_00 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED RDNS_NONE [Sat, 17 Oct 2009 00:06:18 +0100] [rule id 203
>(default-spam)]
> X-Gradwell-Mailfilter: Not Spam, SpamAssassin [127.0.0.1] hits of -5.9 (5 required) [Sat, 17 Oct 2009 00:06:18 +0100] [rule id 203 (default-
>spam)]
> X-Envelope-To: uk.rec.cycling.moderated@usenet.org.uk
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> Received: from pinatubo-2.switch.ch ([130.59.1.10] helo=pinatubo.switch.ch country=CH)
>           by v-mail-in-4.gradwell.net with esmtp (Gradwell gwh-smtpd 1.290) id 4ad8fc65.e81.40
>           for uk.rec.cycling.moderated@usenet.org.uk; Sat, 17 Oct 2009 00:06:13 +0100
>           (envelope-sender )
> Received: from [209.99.125.38] (helo=mailstar.serv3.aus.datafoundry.com)
>       by pinatubo.switch.ch with esmtp (Exim 4.69)
>       (envelope-from )
>       id 1Myvs2-0007UF-5W
>       for uk-rec-cycling-moderated@moderators.isc.org; Sat, 17 Oct 2009 01:06:02 +0200
> Received: from serv4.gc.ams.giganews.com (serv4.gc.ams.giganews.com [216.196.110.12])
>       by mailstar.serv3.aus.datafoundry.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03CB4320046
>       for ; Fri, 16 Oct 2009 18:06:00 -0500 (CDT)
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>       by serv4.gc.ams.giganews.com (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id n9GN5imC003635
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> Received: (from news@localhost)
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> NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 18:05:35 -0500
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> Message-ID: 
> From: "Wm..." 
> Reply-To: "Wm..." 
> Subject: weird or what, take a look at this
> Organization: n/a
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> User-Agent: Turnpike/6.07-M (<u8qQA5wmBgQHrYg$0UOebuGkBS>)
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>Gc=
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> X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
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> X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
> Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling.moderated
> To: uk-rec-cycling-moderated@moderators.isc.org
>
>
> ===
> Hello,
>
> This is an automatic acknowledgement that your message has been RECEIVED
> by the robomoderation program for newsgroup uk.rec.cycling.moderated.
>
> This message has been queued and will be reviewed by the moderators
> as necessary, and you will receive another email when a decision
> about your article has been made.
>
> If you do not want to receive automatic acknowledgments in the future,
> simply reply to this message, QUOTING ITS TEXT IN FULL.
>
> For details of the moderation arrangements see
>      http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/urcm/
>
> > From webstump@chiark.greenend.org.uk Fri Oct 16 23:27:51 2009
> > Return-path: 
> > Envelope-to: webstump+urcm+nmw7gihi@slimy.greenend.org.uk
> > Received: from [212.11.70.80] (helo=v-mail-in-10.gradwell.net)
> >       by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.36 #1) with esmtp
> >       (return-path poster@giganews.com)
> >       id 1MyvH5-0004FX-00
> >       for webstump+urcm+nmw7gihi@slimy.greenend.org.uk; Fri, 16 Oct 2009 23:27:51 +0100
> > X-Gradwell-Mailfilter: SpamAssassin hits were AWL BAYES_00 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED RDNS_NONE [Fri, 16 Oct 2009 23:27:51 +0100] [rule id 203
> >(default-spam)]
> > X-Gradwell-Mailfilter: Not Spam, SpamAssassin [127.0.0.1] hits of -5.7 (5 required) [Fri, 16 Oct 2009 23:27:51 +0100] [rule id 203 (default-
> >spam)]
> > X-Envelope-To: uk.rec.cycling.moderated@usenet.org.uk
> > X-Forwarding-To: uk.rec.cycling.moderated@usenet.org.uk
> > Delivered-To: forwarding-uk.rec.cycling.moderated@usenet.org.uk
> > Received: from pinatubo-2.switch.ch ([130.59.1.10] helo=pinatubo.switch.ch country=CH)
> >           by v-mail-in-10.gradwell.net with esmtp (Gradwell gwh-smtpd 1.290) id 4ad8f362.1883.a
> >           for uk.rec.cycling.moderated@usenet.org.uk; Fri, 16 Oct 2009 23:27:46 +0100
> >           (envelope-sender )
> > Received: from [209.99.125.22] (helo=mailstar.serv5.aus.datafoundry.com)
> >       by pinatubo.switch.ch with esmtp (Exim 4.69)
> >       (envelope-from )
> >       id 1MyvGo-00021L-JK
> >       for uk-rec-cycling-moderated@moderators.isc.org; Sat, 17 Oct 2009 00:27:34 +0200
> > Received: from serv4.gc.ams.giganews.com (serv4.gc.ams.giganews.com [216.196.110.12])
> >       by mailstar.serv5.aus.datafoundry.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67D893A803A
> >       for ; Fri, 16 Oct 2009 17:27:33 -0500 (CDT)
> > Received: from serv4.gc.ams.giganews.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1])
> >       by serv4.gc.ams.giganews.com (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id n9GMRMwE002023
> >       for ; Fri, 16 Oct 2009 17:27:22 -0500
> > Received: (from news@localhost)
> >       by serv4.gc.ams.giganews.com (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id n9GMRGAO002020;
> >       Fri, 16 Oct 2009 17:27:16 -0500
> > X-Authentication-Warning: serv4.gc.ams.giganews.com: news set sender to poster@giganews.com using -f
> > NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 17:27:15 -0500
> > X-DF-Seen-By: ms
> > Message-ID: <Z1FA0$D0HP2KFwyI@[127.0.0.1]>
> > From: "Wm..." 
> > Reply-To: "Wm..." 
> > Subject: Hello
> > Organization: n/a
> > MIME-Version: 1.0
> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed
> > User-Agent: Turnpike/6.07-M (<u7sQAlgGBgQClYg$MULebua8xl>)
> > X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com
> > X-Trace: sv3-FzmsikThTaMh/rw8mASk6pQcG4cRhEQP6dHWHi0cVouMf1/2Z5baplDdZj+Co8YPv1EMCWaGwIKTf0P!9pSPNc3OwQ3YTNjreYs/WdQ1t3yO9WfMdOSFSD/DQUEFA47
> >bL
> >UM=
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> > X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
> > X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
> > X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
> > Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling.moderated
> > To: uk-rec-cycling-moderated@moderators.isc.org
> >
> >
> > giganews has got you now
> >
> > a friendly wave to all.
> >
> > --
> > Wm...
> > Reply-To: address valid for at least 7 days
> >
>
> ===
>
> all I was doing was saying hello
>
> --
> Wm...
> Reply-To: address valid for at least 7 days
===

-- 
Wm...
Reply-To: address valid for at least 7 days
date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 16:26:00 +0100   author:   Wm...

Re: weird or what, take a look at this   
On Sat, 17 Oct 2009 16:26:00 +0100, "Wm...the lying fuckwit"
 wrote:

>I can't see urcm lasting long if this is typical.  You can see what I
>said at the very bottom.


<snip buckets full of shit>


>>
>> all I was doing was saying hello
>>
>> --
>> Wm...
>> Reply-To: address valid for at least 7 days
>===

Hello Worm..


Quite right - devoid of content  - just like most of what you say.

Or - perhaps  they know that you are dishonest - not a man of your
word - not to be trusted.


Still at least you've in advertently pointed out that you have to wade
through buckets full of shit to find out what happened to your posts.

Jackson was too big headed to use the same/simple/proven system
uk.legal.moderated.

--  

British Medical Association (BMA)
View on helmets:

Several studies provided solid scientific evidence that bicycle helmets
protect against head, brain, severe brain and facial injuries,
as well as death, as a result of cycling accidents
date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 17:35:08 +0100   author:   jms

Re: weird or what, take a look at this   
In message , Wm... 
 writes
>Please refer to the group charter and moderation policy at
>  http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/urcm/
>and direct your queries to
>  urcm-moderators@chiark.greenend.org.uk
>
>If you have difficulty reaching the moderators (eg due to
>spamfiltering) please tell postmaster@chiark.greenend.org.uk.

Yes, that is certainly odd if not patently absurd; if one email address 
at chiark.greenend.org.uk is unreachable because of spam filtering, why 
should postmaster@chiark.greenend.org.uk be any more accessible?

-- 
< Paul >
date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 13:07:45 +0000   author:   Paul C. Dickie

Re: weird or what, take a look at this   
On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 13:07:45 +0000
"Paul C. Dickie"  wrote:

> In message , Wm... 
>  writes
> >Please refer to the group charter and moderation policy at
> >  http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/urcm/
> >and direct your queries to
> >  urcm-moderators@chiark.greenend.org.uk
> >
> >If you have difficulty reaching the moderators (eg due to
> >spamfiltering) please tell postmaster@chiark.greenend.org.uk.
> 
> Yes, that is certainly odd if not patently absurd; if one email
> address at chiark.greenend.org.uk is unreachable because of spam
> filtering, why should postmaster@chiark.greenend.org.uk be any more
> accessible?
> 
Because it's purposely not spam-filtered, obviously.
date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 13:36:41 +0000   author:   Rob Morley

Re: weird or what, take a look at this   
In message <20091028133641.736f7f1e@bluemoon>, Rob Morley 
 writes
>On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 13:07:45 +0000
>"Paul C. Dickie"  wrote:
>> In message , Wm...
>>  writes
>> >Please refer to the group charter and moderation policy at
>> >  http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/urcm/
>> >and direct your queries to
>> >  urcm-moderators@chiark.greenend.org.uk
>> >
>> >If you have difficulty reaching the moderators (eg due to
>> >spamfiltering) please tell postmaster@chiark.greenend.org.uk.
>>
>> Yes, that is certainly odd if not patently absurd; if one email
>> address at chiark.greenend.org.uk is unreachable because of spam
>> filtering, why should postmaster@chiark.greenend.org.uk be any more
>> accessible?
>>
>Because it's purposely not spam-filtered, obviously.

Which isn't possible.

-- 
< Paul >
date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 13:47:35 +0000   author:   Paul C. Dickie

Re: weird or what, take a look at this   
On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 13:47:35 +0000, 
   	       Paul C. Dickie  wrote:
> In message <20091028133641.736f7f1e@bluemoon>, Rob Morley 
> writes
>>On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 13:07:45 +0000
>>"Paul C. Dickie"  wrote:
>>> In message , Wm...
>>>  writes
>>> >Please refer to the group charter and moderation policy at
>>> >  http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/urcm/
>>> >and direct your queries to
>>> >  urcm-moderators@chiark.greenend.org.uk
>>> >
>>> >If you have difficulty reaching the moderators (eg due to
>>> >spamfiltering) please tell postmaster@chiark.greenend.org.uk.
>>>
>>> Yes, that is certainly odd if not patently absurd; if one email
>>> address at chiark.greenend.org.uk is unreachable because of spam
>>> filtering, why should postmaster@chiark.greenend.org.uk be any more
>>> accessible?
>>>
>>Because it's purposely not spam-filtered, obviously.
>
> Which isn't possible.

Why not?  I can't see anything that technically prevents it.

-- 
Andy Leighton => andyl@azaal.plus.com
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials" 
   - Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_
date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 08:52:34 -0500   author:   Andy Leighton

Re: weird or what, take a look at this   
"Paul C. Dickie"  wrote in message 
news:xW3qMtm3tE6KFwk$@bozzie.unospace.net...
> In message <20091028133641.736f7f1e@bluemoon>, Rob Morley 
>  writes
>>On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 13:07:45 +0000
>>"Paul C. Dickie"  wrote:
>>> In message , Wm...
>>>  writes
>>> >Please refer to the group charter and moderation policy at
>>> >  http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/urcm/
>>> >and direct your queries to
>>> >  urcm-moderators@chiark.greenend.org.uk
>>> >
>>> >If you have difficulty reaching the moderators (eg due to
>>> >spamfiltering) please tell postmaster@chiark.greenend.org.uk.
>>>
>>> Yes, that is certainly odd if not patently absurd; if one email
>>> address at chiark.greenend.org.uk is unreachable because of spam
>>> filtering, why should postmaster@chiark.greenend.org.uk be any more
>>> accessible?
>>>
>>Because it's purposely not spam-filtered, obviously.
>
> Which isn't possible.

Are you sure about that? Really, completely, 100% sure? Do you run your own 
mail system? I hear Paul Cummins is a good man to ask for help :-)
date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 14:00:10 -0000   author:   Clive George

Re: weird or what, take a look at this   
Paul C. Dickie  wrote:
> In message <20091028133641.736f7f1e@bluemoon>, Rob Morley 
> writes
>>On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 13:07:45 +0000
>>"Paul C. Dickie"  wrote:
>>> In message , Wm...
>>>  writes
>>> >Please refer to the group charter and moderation policy at
>>> >  http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/urcm/
>>> >and direct your queries to
>>> >  urcm-moderators@chiark.greenend.org.uk
>>> >
>>> >If you have difficulty reaching the moderators (eg due to
>>> >spamfiltering) please tell postmaster@chiark.greenend.org.uk.
>>>
>>> Yes, that is certainly odd if not patently absurd; if one email
>>> address at chiark.greenend.org.uk is unreachable because of spam
>>> filtering, why should postmaster@chiark.greenend.org.uk be any more
>>> accessible?
>>>
>>Because it's purposely not spam-filtered, obviously.
>
> Which isn't possible.
>
Unless you have a Clue.

Nobby
date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 09:42:25 -0500   author:   Nobby Anderson lid

Re: weird or what, take a look at this   
On Wed, 28 Oct 2009, Paul C. Dickie  wrote:
> 
>  Yes, that is certainly odd if not patently absurd; if one email 
>  address at chiark.greenend.org.uk is unreachable because of spam 
>  filtering, why should postmaster@chiark.greenend.org.uk be any more 
>  accessible?

Eh?

Are you saying that every address in a particular domain would 
normally have identical spam-filtering?

To be honest, that would seem to me a much more odd proposition than 
that different addresses have different filtering.

regards,   Ian SMith
-- 
  |\ /|      no .sig
  |o o|
  |/ \|
date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 15:09:32 +0000 (UTC)   author:   Ian Smith

Re: weird or what, take a look at this   
On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 13:07:45 +0000, "Paul C. Dickie"
 wrote:

>In message , Wm... 
> writes
>>Please refer to the group charter and moderation policy at
>>  http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/urcm/
>>and direct your queries to
>>  urcm-moderators@chiark.greenend.org.uk
>>
>>If you have difficulty reaching the moderators (eg due to
>>spamfiltering) please tell postmaster@chiark.greenend.org.uk.
>
>Yes, that is certainly odd if not patently absurd; if one email address 
>at chiark.greenend.org.uk is unreachable because of spam filtering, why 
>should postmaster@chiark.greenend.org.uk be any more accessible?


In a nutshell - because Jackson is a control freak and he refuses to
make his system work such that it will accept emails from Hotmail and
Live.

He could at least have the decency to say something like "NB these
addresses do not accept emails from all email systems including
Hotmail and Live"

That would be called being helpful.

Jackson is unhelpful.

Best of luck to him in the forthcoming election.

--  

British Medical Association (BMA)
View on helmets:

Several studies provided solid scientific evidence that bicycle helmets
protect against head, brain, severe brain and facial injuries,
as well as death, as a result of cycling accidents
date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 23:19:43 +0000   author:   jms

Re: weird or what, take a look at this   
On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 14:00:10 -0000, "Clive George"
 wrote:

>"Paul C. Dickie"  wrote in message 
>news:xW3qMtm3tE6KFwk$@bozzie.unospace.net...
>> In message <20091028133641.736f7f1e@bluemoon>, Rob Morley 
>>  writes
>>>On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 13:07:45 +0000
>>>"Paul C. Dickie"  wrote:
>>>> In message , Wm...
>>>>  writes
>>>> >Please refer to the group charter and moderation policy at
>>>> >  http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/urcm/
>>>> >and direct your queries to
>>>> >  urcm-moderators@chiark.greenend.org.uk
>>>> >
>>>> >If you have difficulty reaching the moderators (eg due to
>>>> >spamfiltering) please tell postmaster@chiark.greenend.org.uk.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, that is certainly odd if not patently absurd; if one email
>>>> address at chiark.greenend.org.uk is unreachable because of spam
>>>> filtering, why should postmaster@chiark.greenend.org.uk be any more
>>>> accessible?
>>>>
>>>Because it's purposely not spam-filtered, obviously.
>>
>> Which isn't possible.
>
>Are you sure about that? Really, completely, 100% sure? Do you run your own 
>mail system? I hear Paul Cummins is a good man to ask for help :-) 
>


Cummins returns to the group after a period of mental illness and you
think something like that is funny do you?

You are an objectionable  cunt

 
--  

British Medical Association (BMA)
View on helmets:

Several studies provided solid scientific evidence that bicycle helmets
protect against head, brain, severe brain and facial injuries,
as well as death, as a result of cycling accidents
date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 23:21:53 +0000   author:   jms

Re: weird or what, take a look at this   
In message , Clive 
George  writes
>"Paul C. Dickie"  wrote in message
>news:xW3qMtm3tE6KFwk$@bozzie.unospace.net...
>> In message <20091028133641.736f7f1e@bluemoon>, Rob Morley
>>  writes
>>>On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 13:07:45 +0000
>>>"Paul C. Dickie"  wrote:
>>>> In message , Wm...
>>>>  writes
>>>> >Please refer to the group charter and moderation policy at
>>>> >  http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/urcm/
>>>> >and direct your queries to
>>>> >  urcm-moderators@chiark.greenend.org.uk
>>>> >
>>>> >If you have difficulty reaching the moderators (eg due to
>>>> >spamfiltering) please tell postmaster@chiark.greenend.org.uk.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, that is certainly odd if not patently absurd; if one email
>>>> address at chiark.greenend.org.uk is unreachable because of spam
>>>> filtering, why should postmaster@chiark.greenend.org.uk be any more
>>>> accessible?
>>>>
>>>Because it's purposely not spam-filtered, obviously.
>>
>> Which isn't possible.
>
>Are you sure about that? Really, completely, 100% sure?

Yes - _if_ it refers to ISP spam filtering, over which the customer has 
no control whatever.

-- 
< Paul >
date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 01:22:17 +0000   author:   Paul C. Dickie

Re: weird or what, take a look at this   
In message , jms 
 writes
>In a nutshell - because Jackson is a control freak and he refuses to
>make his system work such that it will accept emails from Hotmail and
>Live.

Having seen the coprolalic effluvia you post to Usenet, that precaution 
just seems remarkably sensible.

-- 
< Paul >
date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 01:27:13 +0000   author:   Paul C. Dickie

Re: weird or what, take a look at this   
"Paul C. Dickie"  wrote in message 
news:b7Yw3W5J5O6KFwCD@bozzie.unospace.net...
> In message , Clive 
> George  writes
>>"Paul C. Dickie"  wrote in message
>>news:xW3qMtm3tE6KFwk$@bozzie.unospace.net...
>>> In message <20091028133641.736f7f1e@bluemoon>, Rob Morley
>>>  writes
>>>>On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 13:07:45 +0000
>>>>"Paul C. Dickie"  wrote:
>>>>> In message , Wm...
>>>>>  writes
>>>>> >Please refer to the group charter and moderation policy at
>>>>> >  http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/urcm/
>>>>> >and direct your queries to
>>>>> >  urcm-moderators@chiark.greenend.org.uk
>>>>> >
>>>>> >If you have difficulty reaching the moderators (eg due to
>>>>> >spamfiltering) please tell postmaster@chiark.greenend.org.uk.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, that is certainly odd if not patently absurd; if one email
>>>>> address at chiark.greenend.org.uk is unreachable because of spam
>>>>> filtering, why should postmaster@chiark.greenend.org.uk be any more
>>>>> accessible?
>>>>>
>>>>Because it's purposely not spam-filtered, obviously.
>>>
>>> Which isn't possible.
>>
>>Are you sure about that? Really, completely, 100% sure?
>
> Yes - _if_ it refers to ISP spam filtering, over which the customer has no 
> control whatever.

And why would you think it was ISP spam filtering which was relevant? 
Especially when your assumption is counter to what you're being told. Have a 
look round for other mentions of chiark on the web - you'll find it's run by 
the sort of people who handle all this sort of thing for fun.
date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 01:45:56 -0000   author:   Clive George

Re: weird or what, take a look at this   
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 01:22:17 +0000
"Paul C. Dickie"  wrote:

> In message , Clive 
> George  writes
> >"Paul C. Dickie"  wrote in message
> >news:xW3qMtm3tE6KFwk$@bozzie.unospace.net...
> >> In message <20091028133641.736f7f1e@bluemoon>, Rob Morley
> >>  writes
> >>>On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 13:07:45 +0000
> >>>"Paul C. Dickie"  wrote:

> >>>> Yes, that is certainly odd if not patently absurd; if one email
> >>>> address at chiark.greenend.org.uk is unreachable because of spam
> >>>> filtering, why should postmaster@chiark.greenend.org.uk be any
> >>>> more accessible?
> >>>>
> >>>Because it's purposely not spam-filtered, obviously.
> >>
> >> Which isn't possible.
> >
> >Are you sure about that? Really, completely, 100% sure?
> 
> Yes - _if_ it refers to ISP spam filtering, over which the customer
> has no control whatever.
> 
But it doesn't.  It's his mail server, so he configures it however he
wants.
date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 20:59:02 +0000   author:   Rob Morley

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