I have long been in the habit of buying Panasonic video recorders etc.
I've always found them easy to use and reliable. When I bought a
Freeview PVR, then, it was natural to buy a Panny.

I regret that decision.

The operating system is a nightmare - I find that I'm forever pressing
buttons that I shouldn't have to (and they usually seem to be the
coloured ones:
Red (not 'OK') to start writing a program, red again (not 'OK') to
save it.
Green to unlock a recorded programme before I can delete it.
The EPG only shows one channel at a time - green to move from the
channel selector to the programmes, blue *and* 'OK'  to tell it to
record one, green to go back to the channel selector.

And so on.

This is so different from the nice simple setup of my Panny DVD
recorder (and old VHS recorder etc) that I'm quite convinced that
Panny just bought in someone else's o/s and rebadged it. (By contrast,
my DVD recorder has a nice easy grid EPG, and it's just 'OK' to record
it. That takes you to another screen where you can add a minute or two
at either end if you want, or 'OK' again to save it and go back to the
EPG. Nice and logical.)

To cap it all, it's dreadfully unreliable. It'll record BBC programmes
all right most of the time, but I can't expect to be able to find
programmes that it claims to be recording from Channel 5, ITV etc.

I give up. I'm going to buy a new one. But which?

It looks as if the Humax has the better o/s out of the box, and it's
cheaper, but how reliable is it?

The Toppy looks a pig from the box, but I don't mind downloading and
installing TAPs if that'll give me what I want. Will it? And, again,
can I rely on it recording what it should when it should?

Anyone got any useful thoughts, please?

Thanks.

Peter.

Peter wrote:
> I have long been in the habit of buying Panasonic video recorders etc.
> I've always found them easy to use and reliable. When I bought a
> Freeview PVR, then, it was natural to buy a Panny.
> 
> I regret that decision.
> 
> The operating system is a nightmare - I find that I'm forever pressing
> buttons that I shouldn't have to (and they usually seem to be the
> coloured ones:
> Red (not 'OK') to start writing a program, red again (not 'OK') to
> save it.
> Green to unlock a recorded programme before I can delete it.
> The EPG only shows one channel at a time - green to move from the
> channel selector to the programmes, blue *and* 'OK'  to tell it to
> record one, green to go back to the channel selector.
> 
> And so on.
> 
> This is so different from the nice simple setup of my Panny DVD
> recorder (and old VHS recorder etc) that I'm quite convinced that
> Panny just bought in someone else's o/s and rebadged it. (By contrast,
> my DVD recorder has a nice easy grid EPG, and it's just 'OK' to record
> it. That takes you to another screen where you can add a minute or two
> at either end if you want, or 'OK' again to save it and go back to the
> EPG. Nice and logical.)
> 
> To cap it all, it's dreadfully unreliable. It'll record BBC programmes
> all right most of the time, but I can't expect to be able to find
> programmes that it claims to be recording from Channel 5, ITV etc.
> 
> I give up. I'm going to buy a new one. But which?
> 
> It looks as if the Humax has the better o/s out of the box, and it's
> cheaper, but how reliable is it?
> 
> The Toppy looks a pig from the box, but I don't mind downloading and
> installing TAPs if that'll give me what I want. Will it? And, again,
> can I rely on it recording what it should when it should?
> 
> Anyone got any useful thoughts, please?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Peter.


Peter,

I am a Toppy owner, I cannot comment on the Humax.

I used the Toppy 'out of the box' for the 1st 6 months.  It was fine.  I 
was very happy with it.  It was intuitive.  It never failed me (except 
when I didn't spot a film was in two parts either side of the news). It 
totally changed the way I watched TV.

I then installed the MyStuff TAP and have been using that for about 6 
months.  It's brilliant.  Piece of cake to install.

It automatically identifies when a program continues after the news and 
tells you it has set a timer for both parts of the film!  The control 
timers enable you to do series-linking.

I explained control timers work to someone at work who uses Sky+ and he 
was astounded at how flexible they are in terms of controlling precisely 
what you want to record. It doesn't just do 'series linking' - you can 
create a timer based on words in a title.  e.g. I like Derren Brown so I 
have a control timer that will record any program at any time on any 
channel with the phrase "Derren Brown" anywhere in the title.  Other 
control timers just record a specifically titled program on a specfic 
channel on a specific day of the week in a specific time frame.  This 
avoids the +1 channels and avoids the BBC3 repeated on BBC2 syndrome (or 
indeed filling the entire hard disk with multiple repeats of Dr. Who on 
BB1/BBC2/BBC3/BBC4)

Each control timer has a relative priority so if 3 programs you've set 
timers for are on the same time, it knows which two you'd prefer it to 
record.

It automatically pads programs but will also automatically adjust the 
padding when you try to record programs in adjacent timeslots.

There are all kinds of different views available on the 'normal 
(one-off) timers' and the 'control timers' so you can keep track of what 
you've told the damn thing to do.

The whole thing is totally skinnable and customisable.  I can't imagine 
you needing many features that aren't in MyStuff on the Topfield and I 
woudn't describe it as a 'Pig' from the box.

I love it.

(sorry - fanboy mode: OFF)

Ian.

On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 21:01:30 +0100, Ian
 wrote:

>(sorry - fanboy mode: OFF)

No apology needed - some helpful comments there. In particular, I like
the sound of these control timers. Thank you.

But I still have questions...

How reliable is it? Does it ever fail to record when told to (eg, two
simultaneous recordings on different MUXs, or particular channels)?
Does it ever lock up for no apparent reason, and require a hard boot?
These are all problems with my Panasonic PVR.

Does it require the use of the 'colour' keys when you might expect to
use, say, 'OK'? (This might sound trivial, but I use a universal
remote in preference to having about ten on the table by the sofa, and
it's fiddly to get at the keys I've programmed for those on the URC.)

What's the picture quality like? (Since my original posting, I've seen
a report that suggests that it ain't too good.)

Thank you.

Peter.

On Oct 13, 4:34 am, Peter 
wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 21:01:30 +0100, Ian
>
>  wrote:
> >(sorry - fanboy mode: OFF)
>
> No apology needed - some helpful comments there. In particular, I like
> the sound of these control timers. Thank you.
>
> But I still have questions...
>
> How reliable is it? Does it ever fail to record when told to (eg, two
> simultaneous recordings on different MUXs, or particular channels)?
> Does it ever lock up for no apparent reason, and require a hard boot?
> These are all problems with my Panasonic PVR.
>
> Does it require the use of the 'colour' keys when you might expect to
> use, say, 'OK'? (This might sound trivial, but I use a universal
> remote in preference to having about ten on the table by the sofa, and
> it's fiddly to get at the keys I've programmed for those on the URC.)
>
> What's the picture quality like? (Since my original posting, I've seen
> a report that suggests that it ain't too good.)
>
> Thank you.
>
> Peter.

Many more TAPs' exist and are growing by the day, in fact the Toppy
community also fixes known bugs before Topfield! so users can download
fixes very rapidly making this one of the most stable PVR's on the
market today
I'd love to know where you've seen a report suggesting that a Toppy's
picture quality ain't too good. I've never seen any reports critical
of it's picture quality, in fact the opposite.
Personally speaking I can't differentiate it from broadcast quality.

Perhaps the author of that report was doing a blind test?

Peter wrote:
> 
> How reliable is it? Does it ever fail to record when told to (eg, two
> simultaneous recordings on different MUXs, or particular channels)?
> Does it ever lock up for no apparent reason, and require a hard boot?
> These are all problems with my Panasonic PVR.
Very reliable - he said through gritted teeth since it locked up for the 
first time in a year last night just after I posted my message saying 
how brilliant it is!  Typical!  I blame you for making me say how good 
it was ;-)  It needed a power-off to get it working again.  I tend to 
record/watch stuff most days so, once a year isn't too bad in my view.

> 
> Does it require the use of the 'colour' keys when you might expect to
> use, say, 'OK'? (This might sound trivial, but I use a universal
> remote in preference to having about ten on the table by the sofa, and
> it's fiddly to get at the keys I've programmed for those on the URC.)
No, I don't think so.  It all seems intuitive to me (and anyway MyStuff 
lets you configure it to re-allocate a lot of keys to different 
functions anyway)

> 
> What's the picture quality like? (Since my original posting, I've seen
> a report that suggests that it ain't too good.)
Picture quality seems as good as broadcast quality to me.  Toggling 
between them and I can't really tell the difference.

Ian.

Peter  wrote:

> It looks as if the Humax has the better o/s out of the box, and it's
> cheaper, but how reliable is it?
> 
> The Toppy looks a pig from the box, but I don't mind downloading and
> installing TAPs if that'll give me what I want. Will it? And, again,
> can I rely on it recording what it should when it should?

I'm a Humax user. I get the impression that the Toppy with TAPs is
better than the Humax, but the Humax is better than the basic Toppy.

There are a few bugs in the Humax, and I expect there are in the Toppy
too. Nothing too serious, I think.

The Humax loads the EPG each time it comes out of standby, which can
take fifteen minutes or so. Some people find this a killer, but it's no
restriction on the way I use it.

the basic Humax has a 160GB hard drive, but one can get from Humax
Direct (only from them) a model with a 320GB drive.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

"Peter"  wrote in message
news:uje0h3prsfmm4q81aik0iup1tn8k285ehu@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 21:01:30 +0100, Ian
>  wrote:
>
> >(sorry - fanboy mode: OFF)
>
> No apology needed - some helpful comments there. In particular, I like
> the sound of these control timers. Thank you.
>
> But I still have questions...
>
> How reliable is it? Does it ever fail to record when told to (eg, two
> simultaneous recordings on different MUXs, or particular channels)?
> Does it ever lock up for no apparent reason, and require a hard boot?
> These are all problems with my Panasonic PVR.
>
> Does it require the use of the 'colour' keys when you might expect to
> use, say, 'OK'? (This might sound trivial, but I use a universal
> remote in preference to having about ten on the table by the sofa, and
> it's fiddly to get at the keys I've programmed for those on the URC.)
>
> What's the picture quality like? (Since my original posting, I've seen
> a report that suggests that it ain't too good.)
>
> Thank you.
>
> Peter.

The only thing that prevents me from buying one tomorrow (or today even) is
that it does not have a Ethernet card, it relies on USB2 for connection.  To
connect it to my PC, which is in another room (beyond USB2 range) I need a
LAN connection.  I understand that you can 'frig' some kind of network box
to extend the USB2 range but this is a buggeration factor I could do
without.

David at brsince78 dot co dot uk wrote:

> The only thing that prevents me from buying one tomorrow (or today
> even) is that it does not have a Ethernet card, it relies on USB2 for
> connection.  To connect it to my PC, which is in another room (beyond
> USB2 range) I need a LAN connection.  I understand that you can
> 'frig' some kind of network box to extend the USB2 range but this is
> a buggeration factor I could do without.

In another thread, I already mentioned the Dreambox DM 7025. The old
version has now been replaced with an enhanced "plus" model (DM 7025+)
which has a better power supply and a much nicer OLED-based front panel
display (instead of a fuzzy LCD panel with backlight as it was before.)

-- 
znark

On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 01:06:21 -0700, JP 
wrote:

>I'd love to know where you've seen a report suggesting that a Toppy's
>picture quality ain't too good.

The comparison table at the back of 'What HiFi?' says '...let down by
poor picture'.

> I've never seen any reports critical
>of it's picture quality, in fact the opposite.
>Personally speaking I can't differentiate it from broadcast quality.

Thanks - that's nice to know.

>Perhaps the author of that report was doing a blind test?

 :-)

Peter.

On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 09:50:01 +0100, Ian
 wrote:

>Very reliable - he said through gritted teeth since it locked up for the 
>first time in a year last night just after I posted my message saying 
>how brilliant it is!  Typical!  I blame you for making me say how good 
>it was ;-)

Oh, dear. Sorry!

> It needed a power-off to get it working again.  I tend to 
>record/watch stuff most days so, once a year isn't too bad in my view.

Well, it's better than my Panasonic, anyway. That seems to do it about
once a month. And always when it's something I particularly didn't
want to miss, of course.

>No, I don't think so.  It all seems intuitive to me (and anyway MyStuff 
>lets you configure it to re-allocate a lot of keys to different 
>functions anyway)

Good - I'd already worked out that I was going to want to load that
particular TAP anyway.

>> What's the picture quality like? (Since my original posting, I've seen
>> a report that suggests that it ain't too good.)
>Picture quality seems as good as broadcast quality to me.  Toggling 
>between them and I can't really tell the difference.

Good, that's two of you.

Thank you.

Peter.

On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 09:52:16 +0100, danspam@f2s.com (Daniel Cohen)
wrote:

>The Humax loads the EPG each time it comes out of standby, which can
>take fifteen minutes or so. Some people find this a killer, but it's no
>restriction on the way I use it.

That is *very* useful to know. It would drive me nuts.

>the basic Humax has a 160GB hard drive, but one can get from Humax
>Direct (only from them) a model with a 320GB drive.

Probably not an issue for me - I'm willing to get my hands dirty doing
it myself if needs be. Anyway, 160GB would probably be enough for me.
I'm pretty good at housekeeping.

Thank you.

Peter.

I'd say that, on the whole, the Toppy is pretty stable, especially
with the most recent firmware, and picture quality is excellent; I'd
heard mention of the What HiFi comment about picture, but that seems
to be very much the odd one out of all the reviews, so I do wonder
quite how they reached the conclusion.

There will be an update to the TF5800 firmware that provides things
like Series Link as standard, thanks to Freeview Playback; I don't
know exactly when, but work is certainly pretty well advanced on that.

It will probably appear on the new model, the 5810, first, and then as
an update to the 5800. The TF5810 is expected around christmas, and
will have a larger hard drive, new case design, HDMI output and maybe
some other goodies too.

www.toppy.org.uk/news.php has two items about it.

Nigel.

David at brsince78 dot co dot uk wrote:
> 
> The only thing that prevents me from buying one tomorrow (or today even) is
> that it does not have a Ethernet card, it relies on USB2 for connection.  To
> connect it to my PC, which is in another room (beyond USB2 range) I need a
> LAN connection.  I understand that you can 'frig' some kind of network box
> to extend the USB2 range but this is a buggeration factor I could do
> without.
> 
> 
I totally understand.  So far, about once every 3 or 4  months I have 
connected the laptop up to the Toppy via USB and copied off some stuff 
and loaded any new/updated TAPs & MP3s.  It'd be so much easier to do it 
via ethernet. If I didn't have a laptop it'd never happen.  The only 
reason I've found for moving recordings off the Topfield is to convert 
it to watch it on my mobile phone during my commute or put it on my 
laptop to timeshift watching it while I'm away from home in a hotel on a 
business trip.

I'd love it if the Toppy had Ethernet connectivity.   Nigel Whitfield 
mentions the TF8510 in a different part of this thread. If they brought 
out a TF8520 with all the existing Topfield functionality with the added 
bonus of being able to stream various video formats from a NAS and move 
files on & off by ethernet/WiFi, I'd buy it in a flash!  SO far I've not 
found a single box to do all that (at a reasonable cost!)

Ian.

Peter  wrote:

> On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 09:52:16 +0100, danspam@f2s.com (Daniel Cohen)
> wrote:
> 
> >The Humax loads the EPG each time it comes out of standby, which can
> >take fifteen minutes or so. Some people find this a killer, but it's no
> >restriction on the way I use it.
> 
> That is *very* useful to know. It would drive me nuts.

I note at the beginning of the week all the programs I want to record,
and just turn on the box before breakfast and use the EPG after
breakfast. And in fact I never watch live, so that means all the
programs that intertest me for the week. So the slow loading of the EPG
is not an issue for me.

Others simply use a timer setting to put the machine on some time before
they want to use the EPG (for instance, early in the morning or just
before returning from work).

If one normally watches live, and suddenly decides to go out, then this
becomes a major issue.




-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

Ian  wrote:


> Very reliable - he said through gritted teeth since it locked up for the
> first time in a year last night just after I posted my message saying
> how brilliant it is!  Typical!  I blame you for making me say how good
> it was ;-)  It needed a power-off to get it working again.  I tend to
> record/watch stuff most days so, once a year isn't too bad in my view.

The Humax has a problem at the moment where it seems to lock up (for
some people) on certain ads that have an interactive content available.

I wonder if your lockup had the same cause.

-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

"Daniel Cohen"  wrote in message 
news:1i5xq7h.1697o5h1187mnnN%danspam@f2s.com...
> Ian  wrote:
>
>
>> Very reliable - he said through gritted teeth since it locked up for the
>> first time in a year last night just after I posted my message saying
>> how brilliant it is!  Typical!  I blame you for making me say how good
>> it was ;-)  It needed a power-off to get it working again.  I tend to
>> record/watch stuff most days so, once a year isn't too bad in my view.
>
> The Humax has a problem at the moment where it seems to lock up (for
> some people) on certain ads that have an interactive content available.
>
> I wonder if your lockup had the same cause.
>

I've had my Humax for three months without any problems, however this 
evening locked up in fast forward and had to be reset by being switched off 
for several seconds.


> -- 
> http://www.decohen.com
> Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
> mail to the From address is never read

In article ,
   Peter  wrote:

[..]
> I give up. I'm going to buy a new one. But which?

> It looks as if the Humax has the better o/s out of the box, and it's
> cheaper, but how reliable is it?

> The Toppy looks a pig from the box, but I don't mind downloading and
> installing TAPs if that'll give me what I want. Will it? And, again,
> can I rely on it recording what it should when it should?

> Anyone got any useful thoughts, please?

Dunno how useful, Peter ..and I'm not in the least 
suggesting that the Humax and the Toppy are not 
exceptionally worthwhile boxes - in fact the top of 
the tree and excellent machines in which to invest..
 
..but, if only by a way of comparison, you might like 
to consider them alongside Tesco's own very similar 
Technika AEDTR 160GB PVR which at 119.87gbp is presently 
selling at around 80.00gbp less than Humax and a whopping 
130.00gbp less than the Topfield.  (Price comparison 
Tesco vv John Lewis last week).

I've just taken delivery (comments originally in 
uk.tech.digital-tv) of the Technika with the later v.3.7 
software, replacing the one returned a couple of weeks 
ago with a faulty HDD.  So far as I can tell and still 
conforming to the new (latest) Freeview Playback Gp2 
standard, it's presently working rather well.. :)) 

..so, hoping it doesn't bore anyone, but the comments 
below as originally placed as a reply in uk.d-tv via 
article  and in no 
particular order might be of some use to you...?
  
"......start

You might wish to consider including one of Tesco's 
Techwood 80GB PVR at around 90.00gbp or less, or 
their similar Technika 160GB at around 120.00gbp.  

The first will record up to 40 hours of programming, 
the latter up to 80 hours or so.  (Recording time 
available depends upon the variable bit rate being 
actually transmitted by the individual TV companies).

Both boxes, (badged Techwood or Technika), now adhere 
to the Freeview Playback Group 2 standard, are auto 
upgradeable via OAD at or around 03h00 whenever being 
transmitted, or may be upgraded via downloadable 
files (when available and for which the manual has full 
instructions).  

Make sure the box has the 'Freeview Playback' logo on 
the front - and on the front of the packaging.

Both boxes, according to the Freeview Playback standard, 
record two proggies at the same time whilst the User may 
watch either of each or a third, already recorded, proggy.

Both have active pause, chase play and various very 
useful search facilities including listings of proggies 
either by individually named programmes or by gendre 
including 'movies', 'drama', 'Shows', 'News' and a 
whole load more etc etc.  These 'event' records may be 
made for the day, the next day, days, or up to seven days 
ahead of the present day and first in the seven day's EPG 
advance.

There is a PiP (picture in picture) facility available 
when the box is not actively recording - and the usual 
'return' to the last proggy button if required.  A choice 
or timings between 0 and up to two hours is made available 
for the live pause facility where this might be also 
required.  

(With 'live pause' it is also possible to use the 'trick 
play' slow speed, pause, fast reverse or forwarding up to 
a few seconds before the latest bit-rate live recording 
entry to the HDD).

Playback itself has the normal trick facilities including 
stop play, slow motion, freeze frame and so on.  It is 
possible to advance a recording rapidly in two minute 
chunks when looking for a particular point in the recording.  

Any 'way' points in a recording may also be 'bookmarked' 
for later reference, or as start/finish arcive points, if 
and as required.

There is a library facility whereby a number of recordings 
may be 'ticked' with the selection then being more permanently 
archived to DVDR or to a VTR, as required.

Opting to record one of a series (or same titled proggies 
over the EPG) and a list of all similar proggies or titles 
is offered from which a recording selection may be made.

Timings may be entered directly from the EPG by way of 
'Events', or directly entered by date, time, and with repeats, 
series repeats etc (as with most VHS machines).  There does 
not appear to be a limit on the number of listed recording 
times - the list is held on the HDD.

Box itself only ever gets vaguely lukewarm when it's 
directly recording - is to all intents and purposes 
whisper silent and cooperates with all other pieces 
of equipment effectively, or invisibly, as required.

Controller is clear, efficient and with logically 
laid out keys that variously fall easily to finger.
Buttons, although small(ish), are the same size as 
most other controllers - but do have reasonable space 
between each making them easy to access...

Recordings may be listed either by a 'library' of 
recordings already made, or by a list of the advance 
event timings already entered.

EPG is clear and comprehensive for seven days ahead 
with virtually no wait for information to arrive; 
the info button presents both short and full info 
on each and every programme.  (Almost no need for 
any further or additional printed 'guide').  The 
EPG is negotiated either by the four directional 
arrow keys circling the centre 'OK' button, or in 
various day and page forward, backward and up/down 
through the channels 'jump' as required.  There are 
a number of editable 'Favourites' lists that the 
User may set up...

Sound is very reasonable, recorded piccies are as 
good as the live piccies - which are basically 
excellent - indeed not dissimilar to the superior 
piccie quality for which the Pace Twin is/was noted.
(In fact - indistinguishable from the Pace - with 
quality saturation, definition etc etc.  (This is 
unlike the 'softer' earlier renditions of the box).

Outlets include cvbs, LR audio, optical audio and, 
of course, twin scarts... RGB throughput on both, 
with the usual selection of RGB, S-VHS and CVBS 
box output variously via the twin scarts.

Digital teletext is exceptionally responsive, rapid 
and glitch free - a joy to use - and unlike many, 
far far more responsive than even the analogue 
teletext pages.  (Not dissimlar to the teletext 
provided by Comag's SL65, for those who know this 
satellite box)...

Although there's a little drop-down flap that's 
obviously designed for a cam of some sort, TUTV 
subscription based services are not available with 
this box - although the full proggy information 
of encrypted channels is available on selection of 
the 'Info' buttons when utilising the EPG.

Warranty?  It's Tesco!  28 day immediate replacement, 
or a year or whatever you can get away with displaying 
your winsome smile at Customer Services... ;))

I'm sure I must have missed something - but basically 
it's a delight to play with ..is responsive and 
accurate with it's controller and, well, just does 
what you intuitively want, whisper silent and without 
fuss.  You don't really need to think about it too 
much ..it just quietly 'is'.. ;))

All in all, an easily handled box with a well sorted 
and 'human', non-techie, interface...

.....end of original article


The warranty (returning the one with the failed HDD) 
worked a treat.. No quibble, money returned ..new 
box and new software available and ready for collection 
in seven days - just for interest.  

So you will have 28 days to check it out, ie to 
give it a hammering and see if it stands up to your 
demands.. :))

Hope helps :))

Bill ZFC

-- 
Adoption  InterLink  UK with  -=-         http://www.billsimpson.com/
Domain Host Orpheus Internet  -=-  http://www.orpheusinternet.co.uk/

"JP"  wrote in message 
news:1192262781.052422.289670@t8g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 13, 4:34 am, Peter 
> wrote:
>> On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 21:01:30 +0100, Ian
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >(sorry - fanboy mode: OFF)
>>
>> No apology needed - some helpful comments there. In particular, I like
>> the sound of these control timers. Thank you.
>>
>> But I still have questions...
>>
>> How reliable is it? Does it ever fail to record when told to (eg, two
>> simultaneous recordings on different MUXs, or particular channels)?
>> Does it ever lock up for no apparent reason, and require a hard boot?
>> These are all problems with my Panasonic PVR.
>>
>> Does it require the use of the 'colour' keys when you might expect to
>> use, say, 'OK'? (This might sound trivial, but I use a universal
>> remote in preference to having about ten on the table by the sofa, and
>> it's fiddly to get at the keys I've programmed for those on the URC.)
>>
>> What's the picture quality like? (Since my original posting, I've seen
>> a report that suggests that it ain't too good.)
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Peter.
>
> Many more TAPs' exist and are growing by the day, in fact the Toppy
> community also fixes known bugs before Topfield! so users can download
> fixes very rapidly making this one of the most stable PVR's on the
> market today
> I'd love to know where you've seen a report suggesting that a Toppy's
> picture quality ain't too good. I've never seen any reports critical
> of it's picture quality, in fact the opposite.
> Personally speaking I can't differentiate it from broadcast quality.

Surely it depends what you're comparing it with. If you're comparing the 
recorded output from a PVR with it's own "live" output I would expect them 
to be identical. If you compare two boxes then you will doubtless see 
differences.

On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 20:19:42 +0100, Peter
 wrote:

>It looks as if the Humax has the better o/s out of the box, and it's
>cheaper, but how reliable is it?

The Hummy is more user friendly OOTB, and cheaper, but you get what
you pay for.

>The Toppy looks a pig from the box, but I don't mind downloading and
>installing TAPs if that'll give me what I want. Will it? And, again,
>can I rely on it recording what it should when it should?

The Toppy works just fine OOTB, but is superb with the likes of
MyStuff installed. Mine always records what I want it to. If you are
technically minded, the extra spent on the Toppy is money well spent.
-- 
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JohnW wrote:
> "JP"  wrote in message 
> news:1192262781.052422.289670@t8g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>> On Oct 13, 4:34 am, Peter 
>> wrote:

>> Many more TAPs' exist and are growing by the day, in fact the Toppy
>> community also fixes known bugs before Topfield! so users can download
>> fixes very rapidly making this one of the most stable PVR's on the
>> market today
>> I'd love to know where you've seen a report suggesting that a Toppy's
>> picture quality ain't too good. I've never seen any reports critical
>> of it's picture quality, in fact the opposite.
>> Personally speaking I can't differentiate it from broadcast quality.
> 
> Surely it depends what you're comparing it with. If you're comparing the 
> recorded output from a PVR with it's own "live" output I would expect them 
> to be identical. If you compare two boxes then you will doubtless see 
> differences. 
> 
> 
My understanding of the comment was that if you compared watching the 
freeview signal via a toppy through to your TV via the scart cable, it 
was somehow worse than watching the same signal directly from the aerial 
on the same freeview-capable TV.  Not so in my experience.

Ian.

In article ,
   Bill ZFC  wrote:
> In article ,
>    Peter  wrote:

> [..]
> > I give up. I'm going to buy a new one. But which?

> > It looks as if the Humax has the better o/s out of the box,
> > and it's cheaper, but how reliable is it?

> > The Toppy looks a pig from the box, but I don't mind
> > downloading and installing TAPs if that'll give me what I
> > want. Will it? And, again, can I rely on it recording what
> > it should when it should?

> > Anyone got any useful thoughts, please?

[Snip detailed review of Tesco's offering.]

> demands.. :))

> Hope helps :))

> Bill ZFC

Bill -

The first thing I ask about these devices is 'does it have a
modulator?'  ie does it put its output onto the rf loop-through
so I can watch it anywhere in the house via my aerial
distributuion setup?

JD  (Also ZFC)

-- 
John Devine  Bolton  Lancashire UK
e-mail: john[DOT]devine970[AT]ntlworld[DOT]com

Bill ZFC  wrote:

> Both boxes, according to the Freeview Playback standard, 
> record two proggies at the same time whilst the User may 
> watch either of each or a third, already recorded, proggy.

Which is not as good as the Humax (the Toppy works ame as Humax, I
think). The Humax can do this, but can also record two programs while
the user watches a third live program (subject to restriction on the
MUX)
-- 
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In article <1i5ysj4.oo3q9nl0ieinN%danspam@f2s.com>,
   Daniel Cohen  wrote:
> Bill ZFC  wrote:

> > Both boxes, according to the Freeview Playback standard, 
> > record two proggies at the same time whilst the User may 
> > watch either of each or a third, already recorded, proggy.

> Which is not as good as the Humax (the Toppy works ame as Humax, I
> think). The Humax can do this, but can also record two programs while
> the user watches a third live program (subject to restriction on the
> MUX)

He he he!  ;))  

Hi, Daniel.. :))

Yes, I'm afraid that my presently ongoing recordings of 
both Charles Laughton in an Agatha Christie b/w, 'The 
Mummy Returns' and with yesterday's 'Moulin Rouge' also 
playing, all together, would seem to concur with you!

However, not wishing to stop the recordings which might 
be on differing MUXss, I can't say yet if the two channels 
recording on the same MUX will allow for watching a third, 
live, on that singular MUX.  I suspect not - the third 
option being limited to something already recorded on 
the HDD.

However, in support of the Technika, I would say that 
unlike the Humax, 

        the Technika's EPG populates in a few seconds 
        right at power-on, then remaining up and ready 
        while, as I understand it, the Hummy takes  
        somewhat longer altogether..

        the Technika's digital teletext and red button 
        operations are not only near instantaneous, 
        but smooth and effective as required by the 
        latest Freeview Playback Group 2 standard..

        the Technika costs 80.00gbp less! ;))

Although why I'm supporting the Technika atm as opposed 
to the Humax I'm not sure ..the Tekky still has to prove 
itself as a reliable long-term player.  We shall see! ;))

Perhaps it is the delightfully instant operation of the 
controls, the almost intuitive jumping from one menu to 
the next, the instant seach by genre, title, odd letters, 
the linkage of both series and one-off repeats, with the 
ability to select record or not for each rendition, or 
the virtually instant operation of the digital teletext 
facilities..

..or is it the visibly very high quality of the display, 
especially in the presentation of recorded material...

Mind, I have also said that the Toppy and the Humax are, 
price aside, presently wobbling at the top of the tree... ;'))

:))

Bill ZFC

-- 
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Domain Host Orpheus Internet  -=-  http://www.orpheusinternet.co.uk/

"Ian"  wrote in message
news:13h1fajibegg7b3@corp.supernews.com...
> David at brsince78 dot co dot uk wrote:
> >
> > The only thing that prevents me from buying one tomorrow (or today even)
is
> > that it does not have a Ethernet card, it relies on USB2 for connection.
To
> > connect it to my PC, which is in another room (beyond USB2 range) I need
a
> > LAN connection.  I understand that you can 'frig' some kind of network
box
> > to extend the USB2 range but this is a buggeration factor I could do
> > without.
> >
> >
> I totally understand.  So far, about once every 3 or 4  months I have
> connected the laptop up to the Toppy via USB and copied off some stuff
> and loaded any new/updated TAPs & MP3s.  It'd be so much easier to do it
> via ethernet. If I didn't have a laptop it'd never happen.  The only
> reason I've found for moving recordings off the Topfield is to convert
> it to watch it on my mobile phone during my commute or put it on my
> laptop to timeshift watching it while I'm away from home in a hotel on a
> business trip.
>
> I'd love it if the Toppy had Ethernet connectivity.   Nigel Whitfield
> mentions the TF8510 in a different part of this thread. If they brought
> out a TF8520 with all the existing Topfield functionality with the added
> bonus of being able to stream various video formats from a NAS and move
> files on & off by ethernet/WiFi, I'd buy it in a flash!  SO far I've not
> found a single box to do all that (at a reasonable cost!)
>
> Ian.

The only one I can find on the market is the Dreambox.  However the support
forums for this appear to be mainly in German and it does not appear to have
caught on over here.  Also it ships with satellite tuners by default and
when you price it up for twin DVB-T tuners and a decent hard-drive the cost
exceeds the Topfield TF5800 by some margin.  Linksys (part of the Cisco
empire) were advertising a twin tuner PVR with Ethernet a few months ago,
but, believe it or not, this had an analogue tuner(s) only !!

Peter wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 01:06:21 -0700, JP 
> wrote:
> 
>> I'd love to know where you've seen a report suggesting that a Toppy's
>> picture quality ain't too good.
> 
> The comparison table at the back of 'What HiFi?' says '...let down by
> poor picture'.
> 
>> I've never seen any reports critical
>> of it's picture quality, in fact the opposite.
>> Personally speaking I can't differentiate it from broadcast quality.
> 
> Thanks - that's nice to know.
> 
>> Perhaps the author of that report was doing a blind test?
> 
>  :-)
> 
> Peter.

Speaking as a broadcast professional, I too think that the Toppy picture 
quality is excellent.

On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 09:52:16 +0100, danspam@f2s.com (Daniel Cohen)
wrote:

>The Humax loads the EPG each time it comes out of standby, which can
>take fifteen minutes or so. 

FIFTEEN MINUTES?  that is just so *unbelievably* crappy.  If it were
coded by those retards at Microsoft I could perhaps understand it, but
by anyone else on earth, no.


--

Ian wrote:
>>
> My understanding of the comment was that if you compared watching the 
> freeview signal via a toppy through to your TV via the scart cable, it 
> was somehow worse than watching the same signal directly from the aerial 
> on the same freeview-capable TV.  Not so in my experience.

Yes - my Toshiba WLT66 can do a better job of decoding
and displaying freeview than my Toppy.

I suspect the decoder and display computers have a helpfully
intimate relationship in the TV.

   BugBear

In article <4f319a309cJohnD@NoSpam-SeeSig.invalid>,
   John Devine <JohnD@NoSpam-SeeSig.invalid> wrote:
> In article ,
>    Bill ZFC  wrote:
> > In article ,
> >    Peter  wrote:

> > [..]
> > > I give up. I'm going to buy a new one. But which?

> > > It looks as if the Humax has the better o/s out of the box,
> > > and it's cheaper, but how reliable is it?

> > > The Toppy looks a pig from the box, but I don't mind
> > > downloading and installing TAPs if that'll give me what I
> > > want. Will it? And, again, can I rely on it recording what
> > > it should when it should?

> > > Anyone got any useful thoughts, please?

> [Snip detailed review of Tesco's offering.]

> > demands.. :))

> > Hope helps :))

> > Bill ZFC

> Bill -

> The first thing I ask about these devices is 'does it have a
> modulator?'  ie does it put its output onto the rf loop-through
> so I can watch it anywhere in the house via my aerial
> distributuion setup?

> JD  (Also ZFC)

I know replying to my own post is bad form but I persuaded a
salesgirl in Tesco's to let me have a look at the Technika
handbook today.  The answer is no, it does not mention RF output
in the handbook so that's no use.

JD

-- 
John Devine  Bolton  Lancashire UK
e-mail: john[DOT]devine970[AT]ntlworld[DOT]com

On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 09:20:07 +0100, Andrew  wrote:

>The Toppy works just fine OOTB, but is superb with the likes of
>MyStuff installed. Mine always records what I want it to. If you are
>technically minded, the extra spent on the Toppy is money well spent.

I'm grateful to all of you who offered comments and advice. I found
you very helpful in making my decision.

In the end, I bought a 250GB black Topfield (from John Lewis in
Reading).

After a very great deal of hassle (PC-related, not directly caused by
the Toppy), I managed to install MyStuff. That does help, but the
interface is still pretty clunky. Examples:
1. It's a lot of keypresses to reach the list of timers - a shortcut
would be helpful.
2. The list of timers is sorted by order of creation, not by date of
next recording (unless there's some clever switch or TAP that I
haven't yet found).
3. The timers are set as start time and duration, not start and end
times. Since listings give (in effect) end times, this requires a bit
more thought when programming manually. To be fair, though, I expect
to be doing most of my programming directly from the EPG in future
(the Panasonic's EPG was so clunky as to discourage this).

I'd also like much faster reverse and FF speeds. Maxima seem to be -3
and +6.

I'm going hunting for TAPs that'll improve these matters. But my next
mini-project is to get to grips with Control Timers in MyStuff.

OTOH, the actual functioning of the Toppy is very good. Once
programmed (and the autopadding feature of MyStuff is a joy), it does
exactly what I want. I'm already satisfied that it seems a lot more
reliable than the Panasonic was.

>The Toppy works just fine OOTB, but is superb with the likes of
>MyStuff installed. Mine always records what I want it to. If you are
>technically minded, the extra spent on the Toppy is money well spent.

I am moderately technically minded (enough to prefer to build my own
computer rather than buy ready-made), and saw the upgradability of the
Toppy as a Good Thing. Unfortunately, my (Vista) PC didn't. In order
to get Altair to work without crashing the system, I had to set up XP
on a spare hard drive, and switch operating system before I could
access the Toppy via USB.

Peter.

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 07:52:25 +0100, Peter
 wrote:

>After a very great deal of hassle (PC-related, not directly caused by
>the Toppy), I managed to install MyStuff. That does help, but the
>interface is still pretty clunky. Examples:
>1. It's a lot of keypresses to reach the list of timers - a shortcut
>would be helpful.
>2. The list of timers is sorted by order of creation, not by date of
>next recording (unless there's some clever switch or TAP that I
>haven't yet found).
>3. The timers are set as start time and duration, not start and end
>times. Since listings give (in effect) end times, this requires a bit
>more thought when programming manually. To be fair, though, I expect
>to be doing most of my programming directly from the EPG in future
>(the Panasonic's EPG was so clunky as to discourage this).

(Later) More by luck than judgment, I've found the answer to all of
these in MyStuff!

Peter.

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 07:52:25 +0100, Peter
 wrote:

>I'm grateful to all of you who offered comments and advice. I found
>you very helpful in making my decision.
>
>In the end, I bought a 250GB black Topfield (from John Lewis in
>Reading).

Cool, you will enjoy it :-)

>After a very great deal of hassle (PC-related, not directly caused by
>the Toppy), I managed to install MyStuff. That does help, but the
>interface is still pretty clunky. Examples:
>1. It's a lot of keypresses to reach the list of timers - a shortcut
>would be helpful.

Are you using the Archive button then cycling through views with left
and right?

>2. The list of timers is sorted by order of creation, not by date of
>next recording (unless there's some clever switch or TAP that I
>haven't yet found).

As above, select Timers by Date view.

>3. The timers are set as start time and duration, not start and end
>times. Since listings give (in effect) end times, this requires a bit
>more thought when programming manually. To be fair, though, I expect
>to be doing most of my programming directly from the EPG in future
>(the Panasonic's EPG was so clunky as to discourage this).

I have never had to do a manual timer!

>I'd also like much faster reverse and FF speeds. Maxima seem to be -3
>and +6.

That is a downside, but don't miss the quickjump options in MyStuff.

>I am moderately technically minded (enough to prefer to build my own
>computer rather than buy ready-made), and saw the upgradability of the
>Toppy as a Good Thing. Unfortunately, my (Vista) PC didn't. In order
>to get Altair to work without crashing the system, I had to set up XP
>on a spare hard drive, and switch operating system before I could
>access the Toppy via USB.

There is a Vista compatible version of Altair available via
toppy.org.uk.
-- 
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please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
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On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 08:31:13 +0100, Andrew  wrote:

>>I'd also like much faster reverse and FF speeds. Maxima seem to be -3
>>and +6.
>
>That is a downside, but don't miss the quickjump options in MyStuff.

In addition to that you can type in a percentage to jump to a certain
point, e.g. 50 to go halfway through a recording.
-- 
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please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 08:31:13 +0100, Andrew  wrote:

>There is a Vista compatible version of Altair available via
>toppy.org.uk.

Supposedly. The reality is that - for no apparent reason - there is no
version compatible with my system. Believe me, I've spent a *lot* of
time trying. In practice, setting up my PC to dual boot between Vista
and XP has proved far simpler and quicker than trying to persuade
Altair to work with my Vista installation. I was just lucky in having
both a spare hard drive and a spare, unused, wholly legitimate copy of
XP lying around. (The XP was left over from the last system rebuild -
I couldn't persuade some of my new kit to work properly with XP as I'd
intended. That's why I had to switch to Vista. Fortunately, those
incompatibilities didn't affect my ability to run Altair on XP.)

(I really don't understand why this should be. The PC is only about
six months old, and has what I think is a perfectly standard Vista
Home Premium installation. It's been very stable indeed... except with
Altair.)

Peter.

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 08:31:13 +0100, Andrew  wrote:

>On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 07:52:25 +0100, Peter
> wrote:
>
>>1. It's a lot of keypresses to reach the list of timers - a shortcut
>>would be helpful.
>
>Are you using the Archive button then cycling through views with left
>and right?

I am now! :-)

Thanks for the tip. By chance, I found this in ChunkyWizard's manual
(whilst looking for something else) just after my earlier posing.

>>I'd also like much faster reverse and FF speeds. Maxima seem to be -3
>>and +6.
>
>That is a downside, but don't miss the quickjump options in MyStuff.

Haven't spotted that - will go looking in the manual. Thanks for the
tip.

I've more or less sussed out Control Timers now (thanks again to
ChunkyWizard's excellent manual), but am having a bit of difficulty
setting one up for a programme which doesn't yet appear in the EPG. I
can't see how to get lower case letters in the name. (FWIW, I want to
set one for Top Gear, which isn't being broadcast next weekend.)

MyStuff does improve the Toppy a lot, doesn't it?

Peter.

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 09:25:44 +0100, Peter
 wrote:

>(I really don't understand why this should be. The PC is only about
>six months old, and has what I think is a perfectly standard Vista
>Home Premium installation. It's been very stable indeed... except with
>Altair.)

If you aren't, you need to tell Altair to run as Administrator. The
new Vista version works fine for me.
-- 
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On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 09:33:05 +0100, Peter said...
> I've more or less sussed out Control Timers now (thanks again to
> ChunkyWizard's excellent manual), but am having a bit of difficulty
> setting one up for a programme which doesn't yet appear in the EPG. I
> can't see how to get lower case letters in the name. (FWIW, I want to
> set one for Top Gear, which isn't being broadcast next weekend.)

From memory, I don't think you have to set lower case letters, it will 
do that for you once you finish entering the name. I don't think the 
search is case sensitive anyway.

Also, there are Top Gear repeats on Dave TV. You can press 'slo-mo' 
(IIRC) when in the EPG to set a CT, and then refine it afterwards.

If you're watching TV with no on-screen menus/EPGs on display then you 
can go straight to the timer list using the white button. Even quicker 
than hitting archive.

-- 
Mark Myers
usenet2 at mcm2002 dot f9 dot co dot uk
I call that a radical interpretation of the text.

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 12:42:09 +0100, Mark Myers  wrote:

>From memory, I don't think you have to set lower case letters, it will 
>do that for you once you finish entering the name. I don't think the 
>search is case sensitive anyway.
>
>Also, there are Top Gear repeats on Dave TV. You can press 'slo-mo' 
>(IIRC) when in the EPG to set a CT, and then refine it afterwards.
>
>If you're watching TV with no on-screen menus/EPGs on display then you 
>can go straight to the timer list using the white button. Even quicker 
>than hitting archive.

Thanks for your help.

As it happens, I found a repeat of last weekend's show coming up, and
used that as a starting point for creating a CT. All set now.

Peter.

Mike  wrote:

> On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 09:52:16 +0100, danspam@f2s.com (Daniel Cohen)
> wrote:
> 
> >The Humax loads the EPG each time it comes out of standby, which can
> >take fifteen minutes or so. 
> 
> FIFTEEN MINUTES?  that is just so *unbelievably* crappy.  If it were
> coded by those retards at Microsoft I could perhaps understand it, but
> by anyone else on earth, no.

It's the decision not to have the EPG stored on hard drive that is
crappy. And it seems to be a difficult decision to change once it was
made.

The broadcast EPG simply takes that long before everything has been
done.
-- 
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