OK Brits,

How many of you are coming over to LDRS this year.
This year looks to be good, though I notice that you have your own meet on the same days.
We will have plenty of M's and above at LDRS, what about at your UKRA meet?.

Robert Talisson

>How many of you are coming over to LDRS this year.

I think there is about 4 or 5 that have planned on going to LDRS that i'm 
aware of

>We will have plenty of M's and above at LDRS, what about at your UKRA 
>meet?.

Should be some good flights, hopefully a few M's.  Not nearly as many as at 
the last Klob launch though.

We're at new different site this year to our usual site and i'm not sure 
what the ceiling or Class limit is.

Flying anything above M class in the UK is a bit tricky.  We did have an N 
at last years UKRA though.

DamianB

-- 
Damian Burrin
UKRA 1159 Level 2 RSO

http://www.ukrocketry.com
http://www.larf-rocketry.co.uk

LARF - Putting the amateur back in rocketry!!

On Jul 4, 6:42 pm, Anonymous  wrote:
> OK Brits,
>
> How many of you are coming over to LDRS this year.
> This year looks to be good, though I notice that you have your own meet on the same days.
> We will have plenty of M's and above at LDRS, what about at your UKRA meet?.
>
> Robert Talisson

There are 7 of us coming over this year. At least 3 of us are bringing
rockets to fly some of the others may buy and build rockets to fly
while they are out.

Cath
TRA 8616
TAP
Prefect Tripoli UK (#108)

On 5 Jul, 09:08, bfo  wrote:
> On Jul 4, 6:42 pm, Anonymous  wrote:
>
> > OK Brits,
>
> > How many of you are coming over to LDRS this year.
> > This year looks to be good, though I notice that you have your own meet on the same days.
> > We will have plenty of M's and above at LDRS, what about at your UKRA meet?.
>
> > Robert Talisson
>
> There are 7 of us coming over this year. At least 3 of us are bringing
> rockets to fly some of the others may buy and build rockets to fly
> while they are out.
>
> Cath
> TRA 8616
> TAP
> Prefect Tripoli UK (#108)

Pete Williams is also joining us now, so I believe the Brit Possy is
now 8.

Richard

> We're at new different site this year to our usual site and i'm not sure
> what the ceiling or Class limit is.
>
Hi Damian

>From the BK website

"This is a "K Class" site, with ceiling heights of....

6,000ft ceiling for single recovery
12,000ft ceiling for dual recovery

Launches to altitudes between 12,000ft and 25,000ft must be by prior
arrangement only. We regret that vehicles that are likely to breach
12,000ft ceiling, which have not been arranged before the launch
meeting will not be allowed to fly."

If I understood a post elsewhere correctly the UK has come into line
with Europe and the new unrestricted altitude is now 19,500ft so the
club will need to update the site.

Vehicles with propulsion systems over the K class limit may be flown
from Milson however the UKRA safety code of course applies and limits
such vehicles to an altitude of 5249ft (from a K class site)

Hope the above helps

regards

Mark
UKRA 1010 LII RSO

>Hope the above helps

Thanks Mark.

I am hoping to make it for the day.

Damian

-- 
Damian Burrin
UKRA 1159 Level 2 RSO

http://www.ukrocketry.com
http://www.larf-rocketry.co.uk

LARF - Putting the amateur back in rocketry!!

On Jul 6, 5:02 pm, "Damian Burrin"  wrote:
> >Hope the above helps
>
> Thanks Mark.
>
> I am hoping to make it for the day.

I suspect I won't make it unfortunately. Call me a traitor, but I'm
split between UKRA, a friend's wedding and RIAT at Fairford that
weekend...and it's a while since I last saw (and felt) a B1-B at low
altitude on full afterburner.

With regard to altitude ceilings - would this mean that you could, for
example, fly a min-dia 54mm K660-powered rocket at Milson, but not the
same rocket on an L730?

I realise a line has to be drawn somewhere, and rules are in place for
good reasons, but it seems a bit 'academic' to base an altitude limit
on total impulse. Given the possibility of flying to 12kft and
upwards, the likelyhood of recovering within the 'launch site' itself
is pretty minimal, so does it really make any difference what size
motor the rocket is launched with? I'd have thought that a metric
based on rocket size/mass and altitude would make more sense, as
surely the main concern is controlling the downrange area in which
rockets of a given size are likely to end up in.

Just a thought, anyway.

Niall

"Niall Oswald (via Google)" wrote in message

> I suspect I won't make it unfortunately. Call me a traitor, but I'm
> split between UKRA, a friend's wedding and RIAT at Fairford that
> weekend...and it's a while since I last saw (and felt) a B1-B at low
> altitude on full afterburner.
>
Your feelings are appreciated!  There will always be another UKRA!

> With regard to altitude ceilings - would this mean that you could, for
> example, fly a min-dia 54mm K660-powered rocket at Milson, but not the
> same rocket on an L730?
>
Yes you could, so long as you didn't break the altitude limits as set by the 
Safety Code.

> I realise a line has to be drawn somewhere, and rules are in place for
> good reasons, but it seems a bit 'academic' to base an altitude limit
> on total impulse. Given the possibility of flying to 12kft and
> upwards, the likelyhood of recovering within the 'launch site' itself
> is pretty minimal, so does it really make any difference what size
> motor the rocket is launched with? I'd have thought that a metric
> based on rocket size/mass and altitude would make more sense, as
> surely the main concern is controlling the downrange area in which
> rockets of a given size are likely to end up in.
>
That's where the safety code leaves a bit to be desired in some areas.  The 
intentions and principles are good but there are some anomolies when you 
apply the calcs.

-- 
Dave B
UKRA 1180

Ah, Fairford '89- last time I saw the Vulcan.
Not long to wait now though...  http://www.tvoc.co.uk/
"Niall Oswald (via Google)"  wrote in message
news:1183759104.037478.219080@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 6, 5:02 pm, "Damian Burrin"  wrote:
> > >Hope the above helps
> >
> > Thanks Mark.
> >
> > I am hoping to make it for the day.
>
> I suspect I won't make it unfortunately. Call me a traitor, but I'm
> split between UKRA, a friend's wedding and RIAT at Fairford that
> weekend...and it's a while since I last saw (and felt) a B1-B at low
> altitude on full afterburner.
>
> With regard to altitude ceilings - would this mean that you could, for
> example, fly a min-dia 54mm K660-powered rocket at Milson, but not the
> same rocket on an L730?
>
> I realise a line has to be drawn somewhere, and rules are in place for
> good reasons, but it seems a bit 'academic' to base an altitude limit
> on total impulse. Given the possibility of flying to 12kft and
> upwards, the likelyhood of recovering within the 'launch site' itself
> is pretty minimal, so does it really make any difference what size
> motor the rocket is launched with? I'd have thought that a metric
> based on rocket size/mass and altitude would make more sense, as
> surely the main concern is controlling the downrange area in which
> rockets of a given size are likely to end up in.
>
> Just a thought, anyway.
>
> Niall
>
>

On 7 Jul, 00:33, "Bowler's End"  wrote:
> "Niall Oswald (via Google)" wrote in message

>
> > I realise a line has to be drawn somewhere, and rules are in place for
> > good reasons, but it seems a bit 'academic' to base an altitude limit
> > on total impulse. Given the possibility of flying to 12kft and
> > upwards, the likelyhood of recovering within the 'launch site' itself
> > is pretty minimal, so does it really make any difference what size
> > motor the rocket is launched with? I'd have thought that a metric
> > based on rocket size/mass and altitude would make more sense, as
> > surely the main concern is controlling the downrange area in which
> > rockets of a given size are likely to end up in.
>
> That's where the safety code leaves a bit to be desired in some areas.  The
> intentions and principles are good but there are some anomolies when you
> apply the calcs.
>
> --
> Dave B
> UKRA 1180

Hi Niall

Just so there is no doubt, the rules we follow ref propulsion system
classes exceeding the class of the site, are those in the Safety Code
and apply to all UKRA affiliated clubs and launches. I know there is a
Safety Code revision nearing completion, it may be that this is one of
the areas being addressed.

regards

Mark

On Jul 7, 10:20 am, Mark  wrote:

> Just so there is no doubt, the rules we follow ref propulsion system
> classes exceeding the class of the site, are those in the Safety Code
> and apply to all UKRA affiliated clubs and launches. I know there is a
> Safety Code revision nearing completion, it may be that this is one of
> the areas being addressed.

Not to worry Mark - your first post made that clear. I was questioning
the safety code more than anything else. Good to hear that it's being
updated.

As for the Vulcan (other Mark), they said at Kemble that hopefully it
will make an airshow later this year. I shall be keeping an eye on
their progress as I was present the last time it flew and would really
like to see it again.

Niall

Richard Brown wrote On 05/07/2007 17:03:

> 
> Pete Williams is also joining us now, so I believe the Brit Possy is
> now 8.
> 
> Richard
> 
Richard, that is good news.

Could you or any of the others do me a small favour when out at LDRS.
It's nothing big that will take to much time ;-)

Could you take some photo's of AeroTech's new Mojave Green propellant in
use. I would love to see this in action.

Thanks

-- 

Sean
Level 2 RSO
http://rocketry.arrowsmith.uk.com
"If pigs could fly...What would the world be like"

On 9 Jul, 18:24, Sean Arrowsmith <m...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Richard Brown wrote On 05/07/2007 17:03:
>
>
>
> > Pete Williams is also joining us now, so I believe the Brit Possy is
> > now 8.
>
> > Richard
>
> Richard, that is good news.
>
> Could you or any of the others do me a small favour when out at LDRS.
> It's nothing big that will take to much time ;-)
>
> Could you take some photo's of AeroTech's new Mojave Green propellant in
> use. I would love to see this in action.
>
> Thanks
>
> --
>
> Sean
> Level 2 RSOhttp://rocketry.arrowsmith.uk.com
> "If pigs could fly...What would the world be like"

Hi

I will try

Richard

>How many of you are coming over to LDRS this year.

I think there is about 4 or 5 that have planned on going to LDRS that i'm 
aware of

>We will have plenty of M's and above at LDRS, what about at your UKRA 
>meet?.

Should be some good flights, hopefully a few M's.  Not nearly as many as at 
the last Klob launch though.

We're at new different site this year to our usual site and i'm not sure 
what the ceiling or Class limit is.

Flying anything above M class in the UK is a bit tricky.  We did have an N 
at last years UKRA though.

DamianB

-- 
Damian Burrin
UKRA 1159 Level 2 RSO

http://www.ukrocketry.com
http://www.larf-rocketry.co.uk

LARF - Putting the amateur back in rocketry!!

On Jul 4, 6:42 pm, Anonymous  wrote:
> OK Brits,
>
> How many of you are coming over to LDRS this year.
> This year looks to be good, though I notice that you have your own meet on the same days.
> We will have plenty of M's and above at LDRS, what about at your UKRA meet?.
>
> Robert Talisson

There are 7 of us coming over this year. At least 3 of us are bringing
rockets to fly some of the others may buy and build rockets to fly
while they are out.

Cath
TRA 8616
TAP
Prefect Tripoli UK (#108)

On 5 Jul, 09:08, bfo  wrote:
> On Jul 4, 6:42 pm, Anonymous  wrote:
>
> > OK Brits,
>
> > How many of you are coming over to LDRS this year.
> > This year looks to be good, though I notice that you have your own meet on the same days.
> > We will have plenty of M's and above at LDRS, what about at your UKRA meet?.
>
> > Robert Talisson
>
> There are 7 of us coming over this year. At least 3 of us are bringing
> rockets to fly some of the others may buy and build rockets to fly
> while they are out.
>
> Cath
> TRA 8616
> TAP
> Prefect Tripoli UK (#108)

Pete Williams is also joining us now, so I believe the Brit Possy is
now 8.

Richard

> We're at new different site this year to our usual site and i'm not sure
> what the ceiling or Class limit is.
>
Hi Damian

>From the BK website

"This is a "K Class" site, with ceiling heights of....

6,000ft ceiling for single recovery
12,000ft ceiling for dual recovery

Launches to altitudes between 12,000ft and 25,000ft must be by prior
arrangement only. We regret that vehicles that are likely to breach
12,000ft ceiling, which have not been arranged before the launch
meeting will not be allowed to fly."

If I understood a post elsewhere correctly the UK has come into line
with Europe and the new unrestricted altitude is now 19,500ft so the
club will need to update the site.

Vehicles with propulsion systems over the K class limit may be flown
from Milson however the UKRA safety code of course applies and limits
such vehicles to an altitude of 5249ft (from a K class site)

Hope the above helps

regards

Mark
UKRA 1010 LII RSO

>Hope the above helps

Thanks Mark.

I am hoping to make it for the day.

Damian

-- 
Damian Burrin
UKRA 1159 Level 2 RSO

http://www.ukrocketry.com
http://www.larf-rocketry.co.uk

LARF - Putting the amateur back in rocketry!!

On Jul 6, 5:02 pm, "Damian Burrin"  wrote:
> >Hope the above helps
>
> Thanks Mark.
>
> I am hoping to make it for the day.

I suspect I won't make it unfortunately. Call me a traitor, but I'm
split between UKRA, a friend's wedding and RIAT at Fairford that
weekend...and it's a while since I last saw (and felt) a B1-B at low
altitude on full afterburner.

With regard to altitude ceilings - would this mean that you could, for
example, fly a min-dia 54mm K660-powered rocket at Milson, but not the
same rocket on an L730?

I realise a line has to be drawn somewhere, and rules are in place for
good reasons, but it seems a bit 'academic' to base an altitude limit
on total impulse. Given the possibility of flying to 12kft and
upwards, the likelyhood of recovering within the 'launch site' itself
is pretty minimal, so does it really make any difference what size
motor the rocket is launched with? I'd have thought that a metric
based on rocket size/mass and altitude would make more sense, as
surely the main concern is controlling the downrange area in which
rockets of a given size are likely to end up in.

Just a thought, anyway.

Niall

"Niall Oswald (via Google)" wrote in message

> I suspect I won't make it unfortunately. Call me a traitor, but I'm
> split between UKRA, a friend's wedding and RIAT at Fairford that
> weekend...and it's a while since I last saw (and felt) a B1-B at low
> altitude on full afterburner.
>
Your feelings are appreciated!  There will always be another UKRA!

> With regard to altitude ceilings - would this mean that you could, for
> example, fly a min-dia 54mm K660-powered rocket at Milson, but not the
> same rocket on an L730?
>
Yes you could, so long as you didn't break the altitude limits as set by the 
Safety Code.

> I realise a line has to be drawn somewhere, and rules are in place for
> good reasons, but it seems a bit 'academic' to base an altitude limit
> on total impulse. Given the possibility of flying to 12kft and
> upwards, the likelyhood of recovering within the 'launch site' itself
> is pretty minimal, so does it really make any difference what size
> motor the rocket is launched with? I'd have thought that a metric
> based on rocket size/mass and altitude would make more sense, as
> surely the main concern is controlling the downrange area in which
> rockets of a given size are likely to end up in.
>
That's where the safety code leaves a bit to be desired in some areas.  The 
intentions and principles are good but there are some anomolies when you 
apply the calcs.

-- 
Dave B
UKRA 1180

Ah, Fairford '89- last time I saw the Vulcan.
Not long to wait now though...  http://www.tvoc.co.uk/
"Niall Oswald (via Google)"  wrote in message
news:1183759104.037478.219080@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 6, 5:02 pm, "Damian Burrin"  wrote:
> > >Hope the above helps
> >
> > Thanks Mark.
> >
> > I am hoping to make it for the day.
>
> I suspect I won't make it unfortunately. Call me a traitor, but I'm
> split between UKRA, a friend's wedding and RIAT at Fairford that
> weekend...and it's a while since I last saw (and felt) a B1-B at low
> altitude on full afterburner.
>
> With regard to altitude ceilings - would this mean that you could, for
> example, fly a min-dia 54mm K660-powered rocket at Milson, but not the
> same rocket on an L730?
>
> I realise a line has to be drawn somewhere, and rules are in place for
> good reasons, but it seems a bit 'academic' to base an altitude limit
> on total impulse. Given the possibility of flying to 12kft and
> upwards, the likelyhood of recovering within the 'launch site' itself
> is pretty minimal, so does it really make any difference what size
> motor the rocket is launched with? I'd have thought that a metric
> based on rocket size/mass and altitude would make more sense, as
> surely the main concern is controlling the downrange area in which
> rockets of a given size are likely to end up in.
>
> Just a thought, anyway.
>
> Niall
>
>

On 7 Jul, 00:33, "Bowler's End"  wrote:
> "Niall Oswald (via Google)" wrote in message

>
> > I realise a line has to be drawn somewhere, and rules are in place for
> > good reasons, but it seems a bit 'academic' to base an altitude limit
> > on total impulse. Given the possibility of flying to 12kft and
> > upwards, the likelyhood of recovering within the 'launch site' itself
> > is pretty minimal, so does it really make any difference what size
> > motor the rocket is launched with? I'd have thought that a metric
> > based on rocket size/mass and altitude would make more sense, as
> > surely the main concern is controlling the downrange area in which
> > rockets of a given size are likely to end up in.
>
> That's where the safety code leaves a bit to be desired in some areas.  The
> intentions and principles are good but there are some anomolies when you
> apply the calcs.
>
> --
> Dave B
> UKRA 1180

Hi Niall

Just so there is no doubt, the rules we follow ref propulsion system
classes exceeding the class of the site, are those in the Safety Code
and apply to all UKRA affiliated clubs and launches. I know there is a
Safety Code revision nearing completion, it may be that this is one of
the areas being addressed.

regards

Mark

On Jul 7, 10:20 am, Mark  wrote:

> Just so there is no doubt, the rules we follow ref propulsion system
> classes exceeding the class of the site, are those in the Safety Code
> and apply to all UKRA affiliated clubs and launches. I know there is a
> Safety Code revision nearing completion, it may be that this is one of
> the areas being addressed.

Not to worry Mark - your first post made that clear. I was questioning
the safety code more than anything else. Good to hear that it's being
updated.

As for the Vulcan (other Mark), they said at Kemble that hopefully it
will make an airshow later this year. I shall be keeping an eye on
their progress as I was present the last time it flew and would really
like to see it again.

Niall

Richard Brown wrote On 05/07/2007 17:03:

> 
> Pete Williams is also joining us now, so I believe the Brit Possy is
> now 8.
> 
> Richard
> 
Richard, that is good news.

Could you or any of the others do me a small favour when out at LDRS.
It's nothing big that will take to much time ;-)

Could you take some photo's of AeroTech's new Mojave Green propellant in
use. I would love to see this in action.

Thanks

-- 

Sean
Level 2 RSO
http://rocketry.arrowsmith.uk.com
"If pigs could fly...What would the world be like"

On 9 Jul, 18:24, Sean Arrowsmith <m...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Richard Brown wrote On 05/07/2007 17:03:
>
>
>
> > Pete Williams is also joining us now, so I believe the Brit Possy is
> > now 8.
>
> > Richard
>
> Richard, that is good news.
>
> Could you or any of the others do me a small favour when out at LDRS.
> It's nothing big that will take to much time ;-)
>
> Could you take some photo's of AeroTech's new Mojave Green propellant in
> use. I would love to see this in action.
>
> Thanks
>
> --
>
> Sean
> Level 2 RSOhttp://rocketry.arrowsmith.uk.com
> "If pigs could fly...What would the world be like"

Hi

I will try

Richard

>How many of you are coming over to LDRS this year.

I think there is about 4 or 5 that have planned on going to LDRS that i'm 
aware of

>We will have plenty of M's and above at LDRS, what about at your UKRA 
>meet?.

Should be some good flights, hopefully a few M's.  Not nearly as many as at 
the last Klob launch though.

We're at new different site this year to our usual site and i'm not sure 
what the ceiling or Class limit is.

Flying anything above M class in the UK is a bit tricky.  We did have an N 
at last years UKRA though.

DamianB

-- 
Damian Burrin
UKRA 1159 Level 2 RSO

http://www.ukrocketry.com
http://www.larf-rocketry.co.uk

LARF - Putting the amateur back in rocketry!!

On Jul 4, 6:42 pm, Anonymous  wrote:
> OK Brits,
>
> How many of you are coming over to LDRS this year.
> This year looks to be good, though I notice that you have your own meet on the same days.
> We will have plenty of M's and above at LDRS, what about at your UKRA meet?.
>
> Robert Talisson

There are 7 of us coming over this year. At least 3 of us are bringing
rockets to fly some of the others may buy and build rockets to fly
while they are out.

Cath
TRA 8616
TAP
Prefect Tripoli UK (#108)

On 5 Jul, 09:08, bfo  wrote:
> On Jul 4, 6:42 pm, Anonymous  wrote:
>
> > OK Brits,
>
> > How many of you are coming over to LDRS this year.
> > This year looks to be good, though I notice that you have your own meet on the same days.
> > We will have plenty of M's and above at LDRS, what about at your UKRA meet?.
>
> > Robert Talisson
>
> There are 7 of us coming over this year. At least 3 of us are bringing
> rockets to fly some of the others may buy and build rockets to fly
> while they are out.
>
> Cath
> TRA 8616
> TAP
> Prefect Tripoli UK (#108)

Pete Williams is also joining us now, so I believe the Brit Possy is
now 8.

Richard

> We're at new different site this year to our usual site and i'm not sure
> what the ceiling or Class limit is.
>
Hi Damian

>From the BK website

"This is a "K Class" site, with ceiling heights of....

6,000ft ceiling for single recovery
12,000ft ceiling for dual recovery

Launches to altitudes between 12,000ft and 25,000ft must be by prior
arrangement only. We regret that vehicles that are likely to breach
12,000ft ceiling, which have not been arranged before the launch
meeting will not be allowed to fly."

If I understood a post elsewhere correctly the UK has come into line
with Europe and the new unrestricted altitude is now 19,500ft so the
club will need to update the site.

Vehicles with propulsion systems over the K class limit may be flown
from Milson however the UKRA safety code of course applies and limits
such vehicles to an altitude of 5249ft (from a K class site)

Hope the above helps

regards

Mark
UKRA 1010 LII RSO

>Hope the above helps

Thanks Mark.

I am hoping to make it for the day.

Damian

-- 
Damian Burrin
UKRA 1159 Level 2 RSO

http://www.ukrocketry.com
http://www.larf-rocketry.co.uk

LARF - Putting the amateur back in rocketry!!

On Jul 6, 5:02 pm, "Damian Burrin"  wrote:
> >Hope the above helps
>
> Thanks Mark.
>
> I am hoping to make it for the day.

I suspect I won't make it unfortunately. Call me a traitor, but I'm
split between UKRA, a friend's wedding and RIAT at Fairford that
weekend...and it's a while since I last saw (and felt) a B1-B at low
altitude on full afterburner.

With regard to altitude ceilings - would this mean that you could, for
example, fly a min-dia 54mm K660-powered rocket at Milson, but not the
same rocket on an L730?

I realise a line has to be drawn somewhere, and rules are in place for
good reasons, but it seems a bit 'academic' to base an altitude limit
on total impulse. Given the possibility of flying to 12kft and
upwards, the likelyhood of recovering within the 'launch site' itself
is pretty minimal, so does it really make any difference what size
motor the rocket is launched with? I'd have thought that a metric
based on rocket size/mass and altitude would make more sense, as
surely the main concern is controlling the downrange area in which
rockets of a given size are likely to end up in.

Just a thought, anyway.

Niall

"Niall Oswald (via Google)" wrote in message

> I suspect I won't make it unfortunately. Call me a traitor, but I'm
> split between UKRA, a friend's wedding and RIAT at Fairford that
> weekend...and it's a while since I last saw (and felt) a B1-B at low
> altitude on full afterburner.
>
Your feelings are appreciated!  There will always be another UKRA!

> With regard to altitude ceilings - would this mean that you could, for
> example, fly a min-dia 54mm K660-powered rocket at Milson, but not the
> same rocket on an L730?
>
Yes you could, so long as you didn't break the altitude limits as set by the 
Safety Code.

> I realise a line has to be drawn somewhere, and rules are in place for
> good reasons, but it seems a bit 'academic' to base an altitude limit
> on total impulse. Given the possibility of flying to 12kft and
> upwards, the likelyhood of recovering within the 'launch site' itself
> is pretty minimal, so does it really make any difference what size
> motor the rocket is launched with? I'd have thought that a metric
> based on rocket size/mass and altitude would make more sense, as
> surely the main concern is controlling the downrange area in which
> rockets of a given size are likely to end up in.
>
That's where the safety code leaves a bit to be desired in some areas.  The 
intentions and principles are good but there are some anomolies when you 
apply the calcs.

-- 
Dave B
UKRA 1180

Ah, Fairford '89- last time I saw the Vulcan.
Not long to wait now though...  http://www.tvoc.co.uk/
"Niall Oswald (via Google)"  wrote in message
news:1183759104.037478.219080@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 6, 5:02 pm, "Damian Burrin"  wrote:
> > >Hope the above helps
> >
> > Thanks Mark.
> >
> > I am hoping to make it for the day.
>
> I suspect I won't make it unfortunately. Call me a traitor, but I'm
> split between UKRA, a friend's wedding and RIAT at Fairford that
> weekend...and it's a while since I last saw (and felt) a B1-B at low
> altitude on full afterburner.
>
> With regard to altitude ceilings - would this mean that you could, for
> example, fly a min-dia 54mm K660-powered rocket at Milson, but not the
> same rocket on an L730?
>
> I realise a line has to be drawn somewhere, and rules are in place for
> good reasons, but it seems a bit 'academic' to base an altitude limit
> on total impulse. Given the possibility of flying to 12kft and
> upwards, the likelyhood of recovering within the 'launch site' itself
> is pretty minimal, so does it really make any difference what size
> motor the rocket is launched with? I'd have thought that a metric
> based on rocket size/mass and altitude would make more sense, as
> surely the main concern is controlling the downrange area in which
> rockets of a given size are likely to end up in.
>
> Just a thought, anyway.
>
> Niall
>
>

On 7 Jul, 00:33, "Bowler's End"  wrote:
> "Niall Oswald (via Google)" wrote in message

>
> > I realise a line has to be drawn somewhere, and rules are in place for
> > good reasons, but it seems a bit 'academic' to base an altitude limit
> > on total impulse. Given the possibility of flying to 12kft and
> > upwards, the likelyhood of recovering within the 'launch site' itself
> > is pretty minimal, so does it really make any difference what size
> > motor the rocket is launched with? I'd have thought that a metric
> > based on rocket size/mass and altitude would make more sense, as
> > surely the main concern is controlling the downrange area in which
> > rockets of a given size are likely to end up in.
>
> That's where the safety code leaves a bit to be desired in some areas.  The
> intentions and principles are good but there are some anomolies when you
> apply the calcs.
>
> --
> Dave B
> UKRA 1180

Hi Niall

Just so there is no doubt, the rules we follow ref propulsion system
classes exceeding the class of the site, are those in the Safety Code
and apply to all UKRA affiliated clubs and launches. I know there is a
Safety Code revision nearing completion, it may be that this is one of
the areas being addressed.

regards

Mark

On Jul 7, 10:20 am, Mark  wrote:

> Just so there is no doubt, the rules we follow ref propulsion system
> classes exceeding the class of the site, are those in the Safety Code
> and apply to all UKRA affiliated clubs and launches. I know there is a
> Safety Code revision nearing completion, it may be that this is one of
> the areas being addressed.

Not to worry Mark - your first post made that clear. I was questioning
the safety code more than anything else. Good to hear that it's being
updated.

As for the Vulcan (other Mark), they said at Kemble that hopefully it
will make an airshow later this year. I shall be keeping an eye on
their progress as I was present the last time it flew and would really
like to see it again.

Niall

Richard Brown wrote On 05/07/2007 17:03:

> 
> Pete Williams is also joining us now, so I believe the Brit Possy is
> now 8.
> 
> Richard
> 
Richard, that is good news.

Could you or any of the others do me a small favour when out at LDRS.
It's nothing big that will take to much time ;-)

Could you take some photo's of AeroTech's new Mojave Green propellant in
use. I would love to see this in action.

Thanks

-- 

Sean
Level 2 RSO
http://rocketry.arrowsmith.uk.com
"If pigs could fly...What would the world be like"

On 9 Jul, 18:24, Sean Arrowsmith <m...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Richard Brown wrote On 05/07/2007 17:03:
>
>
>
> > Pete Williams is also joining us now, so I believe the Brit Possy is
> > now 8.
>
> > Richard
>
> Richard, that is good news.
>
> Could you or any of the others do me a small favour when out at LDRS.
> It's nothing big that will take to much time ;-)
>
> Could you take some photo's of AeroTech's new Mojave Green propellant in
> use. I would love to see this in action.
>
> Thanks
>
> --
>
> Sean
> Level 2 RSOhttp://rocketry.arrowsmith.uk.com
> "If pigs could fly...What would the world be like"

Hi

I will try

Richard

>How many of you are coming over to LDRS this year.

I think there is about 4 or 5 that have planned on going to LDRS that i'm 
aware of

>We will have plenty of M's and above at LDRS, what about at your UKRA 
>meet?.

Should be some good flights, hopefully a few M's.  Not nearly as many as at 
the last Klob launch though.

We're at new different site this year to our usual site and i'm not sure 
what the ceiling or Class limit is.

Flying anything above M class in the UK is a bit tricky.  We did have an N 
at last years UKRA though.

DamianB

-- 
Damian Burrin
UKRA 1159 Level 2 RSO

http://www.ukrocketry.com
http://www.larf-rocketry.co.uk

LARF - Putting the amateur back in rocketry!!

On Jul 4, 6:42 pm, Anonymous  wrote:
> OK Brits,
>
> How many of you are coming over to LDRS this year.
> This year looks to be good, though I notice that you have your own meet on the same days.
> We will have plenty of M's and above at LDRS, what about at your UKRA meet?.
>
> Robert Talisson

There are 7 of us coming over this year. At least 3 of us are bringing
rockets to fly some of the others may buy and build rockets to fly
while they are out.

Cath
TRA 8616
TAP
Prefect Tripoli UK (#108)

On 5 Jul, 09:08, bfo  wrote:
> On Jul 4, 6:42 pm, Anonymous  wrote:
>
> > OK Brits,
>
> > How many of you are coming over to LDRS this year.
> > This year looks to be good, though I notice that you have your own meet on the same days.
> > We will have plenty of M's and above at LDRS, what about at your UKRA meet?.
>
> > Robert Talisson
>
> There are 7 of us coming over this year. At least 3 of us are bringing
> rockets to fly some of the others may buy and build rockets to fly
> while they are out.
>
> Cath
> TRA 8616
> TAP
> Prefect Tripoli UK (#108)

Pete Williams is also joining us now, so I believe the Brit Possy is
now 8.

Richard

> We're at new different site this year to our usual site and i'm not sure
> what the ceiling or Class limit is.
>
Hi Damian

>From the BK website

"This is a "K Class" site, with ceiling heights of....

6,000ft ceiling for single recovery
12,000ft ceiling for dual recovery

Launches to altitudes between 12,000ft and 25,000ft must be by prior
arrangement only. We regret that vehicles that are likely to breach
12,000ft ceiling, which have not been arranged before the launch
meeting will not be allowed to fly."

If I understood a post elsewhere correctly the UK has come into line
with Europe and the new unrestricted altitude is now 19,500ft so the
club will need to update the site.

Vehicles with propulsion systems over the K class limit may be flown
from Milson however the UKRA safety code of course applies and limits
such vehicles to an altitude of 5249ft (from a K class site)

Hope the above helps

regards

Mark
UKRA 1010 LII RSO

>Hope the above helps

Thanks Mark.

I am hoping to make it for the day.

Damian

-- 
Damian Burrin
UKRA 1159 Level 2 RSO

http://www.ukrocketry.com
http://www.larf-rocketry.co.uk

LARF - Putting the amateur back in rocketry!!

On Jul 6, 5:02 pm, "Damian Burrin"  wrote:
> >Hope the above helps
>
> Thanks Mark.
>
> I am hoping to make it for the day.

I suspect I won't make it unfortunately. Call me a traitor, but I'm
split between UKRA, a friend's wedding and RIAT at Fairford that
weekend...and it's a while since I last saw (and felt) a B1-B at low
altitude on full afterburner.

With regard to altitude ceilings - would this mean that you could, for
example, fly a min-dia 54mm K660-powered rocket at Milson, but not the
same rocket on an L730?

I realise a line has to be drawn somewhere, and rules are in place for
good reasons, but it seems a bit 'academic' to base an altitude limit
on total impulse. Given the possibility of flying to 12kft and
upwards, the likelyhood of recovering within the 'launch site' itself
is pretty minimal, so does it really make any difference what size
motor the rocket is launched with? I'd have thought that a metric
based on rocket size/mass and altitude would make more sense, as
surely the main concern is controlling the downrange area in which
rockets of a given size are likely to end up in.

Just a thought, anyway.

Niall

"Niall Oswald (via Google)" wrote in message

> I suspect I won't make it unfortunately. Call me a traitor, but I'm
> split between UKRA, a friend's wedding and RIAT at Fairford that
> weekend...and it's a while since I last saw (and felt) a B1-B at low
> altitude on full afterburner.
>
Your feelings are appreciated!  There will always be another UKRA!

> With regard to altitude ceilings - would this mean that you could, for
> example, fly a min-dia 54mm K660-powered rocket at Milson, but not the
> same rocket on an L730?
>
Yes you could, so long as you didn't break the altitude limits as set by the 
Safety Code.

> I realise a line has to be drawn somewhere, and rules are in place for
> good reasons, but it seems a bit 'academic' to base an altitude limit
> on total impulse. Given the possibility of flying to 12kft and
> upwards, the likelyhood of recovering within the 'launch site' itself
> is pretty minimal, so does it really make any difference what size
> motor the rocket is launched with? I'd have thought that a metric
> based on rocket size/mass and altitude would make more sense, as
> surely the main concern is controlling the downrange area in which
> rockets of a given size are likely to end up in.
>
That's where the safety code leaves a bit to be desired in some areas.  The 
intentions and principles are good but there are some anomolies when you 
apply the calcs.

-- 
Dave B
UKRA 1180

Ah, Fairford '89- last time I saw the Vulcan.
Not long to wait now though...  http://www.tvoc.co.uk/
"Niall Oswald (via Google)"  wrote in message
news:1183759104.037478.219080@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 6, 5:02 pm, "Damian Burrin"  wrote:
> > >Hope the above helps
> >
> > Thanks Mark.
> >
> > I am hoping to make it for the day.
>
> I suspect I won't make it unfortunately. Call me a traitor, but I'm
> split between UKRA, a friend's wedding and RIAT at Fairford that
> weekend...and it's a while since I last saw (and felt) a B1-B at low
> altitude on full afterburner.
>
> With regard to altitude ceilings - would this mean that you could, for
> example, fly a min-dia 54mm K660-powered rocket at Milson, but not the
> same rocket on an L730?
>
> I realise a line has to be drawn somewhere, and rules are in place for
> good reasons, but it seems a bit 'academic' to base an altitude limit
> on total impulse. Given the possibility of flying to 12kft and
> upwards, the likelyhood of recovering within the 'launch site' itself
> is pretty minimal, so does it really make any difference what size
> motor the rocket is launched with? I'd have thought that a metric
> based on rocket size/mass and altitude would make more sense, as
> surely the main concern is controlling the downrange area in which
> rockets of a given size are likely to end up in.
>
> Just a thought, anyway.
>
> Niall
>
>

On 7 Jul, 00:33, "Bowler's End"  wrote:
> "Niall Oswald (via Google)" wrote in message

>
> > I realise a line has to be drawn somewhere, and rules are in place for
> > good reasons, but it seems a bit 'academic' to base an altitude limit
> > on total impulse. Given the possibility of flying to 12kft and
> > upwards, the likelyhood of recovering within the 'launch site' itself
> > is pretty minimal, so does it really make any difference what size
> > motor the rocket is launched with? I'd have thought that a metric
> > based on rocket size/mass and altitude would make more sense, as
> > surely the main concern is controlling the downrange area in which
> > rockets of a given size are likely to end up in.
>
> That's where the safety code leaves a bit to be desired in some areas.  The
> intentions and principles are good but there are some anomolies when you
> apply the calcs.
>
> --
> Dave B
> UKRA 1180

Hi Niall

Just so there is no doubt, the rules we follow ref propulsion system
classes exceeding the class of the site, are those in the Safety Code
and apply to all UKRA affiliated clubs and launches. I know there is a
Safety Code revision nearing completion, it may be that this is one of
the areas being addressed.

regards

Mark

On Jul 7, 10:20 am, Mark  wrote:

> Just so there is no doubt, the rules we follow ref propulsion system
> classes exceeding the class of the site, are those in the Safety Code
> and apply to all UKRA affiliated clubs and launches. I know there is a
> Safety Code revision nearing completion, it may be that this is one of
> the areas being addressed.

Not to worry Mark - your first post made that clear. I was questioning
the safety code more than anything else. Good to hear that it's being
updated.

As for the Vulcan (other Mark), they said at Kemble that hopefully it
will make an airshow later this year. I shall be keeping an eye on
their progress as I was present the last time it flew and would really
like to see it again.

Niall

Richard Brown wrote On 05/07/2007 17:03:

> 
> Pete Williams is also joining us now, so I believe the Brit Possy is
> now 8.
> 
> Richard
> 
Richard, that is good news.

Could you or any of the others do me a small favour when out at LDRS.
It's nothing big that will take to much time ;-)

Could you take some photo's of AeroTech's new Mojave Green propellant in
use. I would love to see this in action.

Thanks

-- 

Sean
Level 2 RSO
http://rocketry.arrowsmith.uk.com
"If pigs could fly...What would the world be like"

On 9 Jul, 18:24, Sean Arrowsmith <m...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Richard Brown wrote On 05/07/2007 17:03:
>
>
>
> > Pete Williams is also joining us now, so I believe the Brit Possy is
> > now 8.
>
> > Richard
>
> Richard, that is good news.
>
> Could you or any of the others do me a small favour when out at LDRS.
> It's nothing big that will take to much time ;-)
>
> Could you take some photo's of AeroTech's new Mojave Green propellant in
> use. I would love to see this in action.
>
> Thanks
>
> --
>
> Sean
> Level 2 RSOhttp://rocketry.arrowsmith.uk.com
> "If pigs could fly...What would the world be like"

Hi

I will try

Richard

>How many of you are coming over to LDRS this year.

I think there is about 4 or 5 that have planned on going to LDRS that i'm 
aware of

>We will have plenty of M's and above at LDRS, what about at your UKRA 
>meet?.

Should be some good flights, hopefully a few M's.  Not nearly as many as at 
the last Klob launch though.

We're at new different site this year to our usual site and i'm not sure 
what the ceiling or Class limit is.

Flying anything above M class in the UK is a bit tricky.  We did have an N 
at last years UKRA though.

DamianB

-- 
Damian Burrin
UKRA 1159 Level 2 RSO

http://www.ukrocketry.com
http://www.larf-rocketry.co.uk

LARF - Putting the amateur back in rocketry!!

On Jul 4, 6:42 pm, Anonymous  wrote:
> OK Brits,
>
> How many of you are coming over to LDRS this year.
> This year looks to be good, though I notice that you have your own meet on the same days.
> We will have plenty of M's and above at LDRS, what about at your UKRA meet?.
>
> Robert Talisson

There are 7 of us coming over this year. At least 3 of us are bringing
rockets to fly some of the others may buy and build rockets to fly
while they are out.

Cath
TRA 8616
TAP
Prefect Tripoli UK (#108)

On 5 Jul, 09:08, bfo  wrote:
> On Jul 4, 6:42 pm, Anonymous  wrote:
>
> > OK Brits,
>
> > How many of you are coming over to LDRS this year.
> > This year looks to be good, though I notice that you have your own meet on the same days.
> > We will have plenty of M's and above at LDRS, what about at your UKRA meet?.
>
> > Robert Talisson
>
> There are 7 of us coming over this year. At least 3 of us are bringing
> rockets to fly some of the others may buy and build rockets to fly
> while they are out.
>
> Cath
> TRA 8616
> TAP
> Prefect Tripoli UK (#108)

Pete Williams is also joining us now, so I believe the Brit Possy is
now 8.

Richard

> We're at new different site this year to our usual site and i'm not sure
> what the ceiling or Class limit is.
>
Hi Damian

>From the BK website

"This is a "K Class" site, with ceiling heights of....

6,000ft ceiling for single recovery
12,000ft ceiling for dual recovery

Launches to altitudes between 12,000ft and 25,000ft must be by prior
arrangement only. We regret that vehicles that are likely to breach
12,000ft ceiling, which have not been arranged before the launch
meeting will not be allowed to fly."

If I understood a post elsewhere correctly the UK has come into line
with Europe and the new unrestricted altitude is now 19,500ft so the
club will need to update the site.

Vehicles with propulsion systems over the K class limit may be flown
from Milson however the UKRA safety code of course applies and limits
such vehicles to an altitude of 5249ft (from a K class site)

Hope the above helps

regards

Mark
UKRA 1010 LII RSO

>Hope the above helps

Thanks Mark.

I am hoping to make it for the day.

Damian

-- 
Damian Burrin
UKRA 1159 Level 2 RSO

http://www.ukrocketry.com
http://www.larf-rocketry.co.uk

LARF - Putting the amateur back in rocketry!!

On Jul 6, 5:02 pm, "Damian Burrin"  wrote:
> >Hope the above helps
>
> Thanks Mark.
>
> I am hoping to make it for the day.

I suspect I won't make it unfortunately. Call me a traitor, but I'm
split between UKRA, a friend's wedding and RIAT at Fairford that
weekend...and it's a while since I last saw (and felt) a B1-B at low
altitude on full afterburner.

With regard to altitude ceilings - would this mean that you could, for
example, fly a min-dia 54mm K660-powered rocket at Milson, but not the
same rocket on an L730?

I realise a line has to be drawn somewhere, and rules are in place for
good reasons, but it seems a bit 'academic' to base an altitude limit
on total impulse. Given the possibility of flying to 12kft and
upwards, the likelyhood of recovering within the 'launch site' itself
is pretty minimal, so does it really make any difference what size
motor the rocket is launched with? I'd have thought that a metric
based on rocket size/mass and altitude would make more sense, as
surely the main concern is controlling the downrange area in which
rockets of a given size are likely to end up in.

Just a thought, anyway.

Niall

"Niall Oswald (via Google)" wrote in message

> I suspect I won't make it unfortunately. Call me a traitor, but I'm
> split between UKRA, a friend's wedding and RIAT at Fairford that
> weekend...and it's a while since I last saw (and felt) a B1-B at low
> altitude on full afterburner.
>
Your feelings are appreciated!  There will always be another UKRA!

> With regard to altitude ceilings - would this mean that you could, for
> example, fly a min-dia 54mm K660-powered rocket at Milson, but not the
> same rocket on an L730?
>
Yes you could, so long as you didn't break the altitude limits as set by the 
Safety Code.

> I realise a line has to be drawn somewhere, and rules are in place for
> good reasons, but it seems a bit 'academic' to base an altitude limit
> on total impulse. Given the possibility of flying to 12kft and
> upwards, the likelyhood of recovering within the 'launch site' itself
> is pretty minimal, so does it really make any difference what size
> motor the rocket is launched with? I'd have thought that a metric
> based on rocket size/mass and altitude would make more sense, as
> surely the main concern is controlling the downrange area in which
> rockets of a given size are likely to end up in.
>
That's where the safety code leaves a bit to be desired in some areas.  The 
intentions and principles are good but there are some anomolies when you 
apply the calcs.

-- 
Dave B
UKRA 1180

Ah, Fairford '89- last time I saw the Vulcan.
Not long to wait now though...  http://www.tvoc.co.uk/
"Niall Oswald (via Google)"  wrote in message
news:1183759104.037478.219080@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 6, 5:02 pm, "Damian Burrin"  wrote:
> > >Hope the above helps
> >
> > Thanks Mark.
> >
> > I am hoping to make it for the day.
>
> I suspect I won't make it unfortunately. Call me a traitor, but I'm
> split between UKRA, a friend's wedding and RIAT at Fairford that
> weekend...and it's a while since I last saw (and felt) a B1-B at low
> altitude on full afterburner.
>
> With regard to altitude ceilings - would this mean that you could, for
> example, fly a min-dia 54mm K660-powered rocket at Milson, but not the
> same rocket on an L730?
>
> I realise a line has to be drawn somewhere, and rules are in place for
> good reasons, but it seems a bit 'academic' to base an altitude limit
> on total impulse. Given the possibility of flying to 12kft and
> upwards, the likelyhood of recovering within the 'launch site' itself
> is pretty minimal, so does it really make any difference what size
> motor the rocket is launched with? I'd have thought that a metric
> based on rocket size/mass and altitude would make more sense, as
> surely the main concern is controlling the downrange area in which
> rockets of a given size are likely to end up in.
>
> Just a thought, anyway.
>
> Niall
>
>

On 7 Jul, 00:33, "Bowler's End"  wrote:
> "Niall Oswald (via Google)" wrote in message

>
> > I realise a line has to be drawn somewhere, and rules are in place for
> > good reasons, but it seems a bit 'academic' to base an altitude limit
> > on total impulse. Given the possibility of flying to 12kft and
> > upwards, the likelyhood of recovering within the 'launch site' itself
> > is pretty minimal, so does it really make any difference what size
> > motor the rocket is launched with? I'd have thought that a metric
> > based on rocket size/mass and altitude would make more sense, as
> > surely the main concern is controlling the downrange area in which
> > rockets of a given size are likely to end up in.
>
> That's where the safety code leaves a bit to be desired in some areas.  The
> intentions and principles are good but there are some anomolies when you
> apply the calcs.
>
> --
> Dave B
> UKRA 1180

Hi Niall

Just so there is no doubt, the rules we follow ref propulsion system
classes exceeding the class of the site, are those in the Safety Code
and apply to all UKRA affiliated clubs and launches. I know there is a
Safety Code revision nearing completion, it may be that this is one of
the areas being addressed.

regards

Mark

On Jul 7, 10:20 am, Mark  wrote:

> Just so there is no doubt, the rules we follow ref propulsion system
> classes exceeding the class of the site, are those in the Safety Code
> and apply to all UKRA affiliated clubs and launches. I know there is a
> Safety Code revision nearing completion, it may be that this is one of
> the areas being addressed.

Not to worry Mark - your first post made that clear. I was questioning
the safety code more than anything else. Good to hear that it's being
updated.

As for the Vulcan (other Mark), they said at Kemble that hopefully it
will make an airshow later this year. I shall be keeping an eye on
their progress as I was present the last time it flew and would really
like to see it again.

Niall

Richard Brown wrote On 05/07/2007 17:03:

> 
> Pete Williams is also joining us now, so I believe the Brit Possy is
> now 8.
> 
> Richard
> 
Richard, that is good news.

Could you or any of the others do me a small favour when out at LDRS.
It's nothing big that will take to much time ;-)

Could you take some photo's of AeroTech's new Mojave Green propellant in
use. I would love to see this in action.

Thanks

-- 

Sean
Level 2 RSO
http://rocketry.arrowsmith.uk.com
"If pigs could fly...What would the world be like"

On 9 Jul, 18:24, Sean Arrowsmith <m...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Richard Brown wrote On 05/07/2007 17:03:
>
>
>
> > Pete Williams is also joining us now, so I believe the Brit Possy is
> > now 8.
>
> > Richard
>
> Richard, that is good news.
>
> Could you or any of the others do me a small favour when out at LDRS.
> It's nothing big that will take to much time ;-)
>
> Could you take some photo's of AeroTech's new Mojave Green propellant in
> use. I would love to see this in action.
>
> Thanks
>
> --
>
> Sean
> Level 2 RSOhttp://rocketry.arrowsmith.uk.com
> "If pigs could fly...What would the world be like"

Hi

I will try

Richard

>How many of you are coming over to LDRS this year.

I think there is about 4 or 5 that have planned on going to LDRS that i'm 
aware of

>We will have plenty of M's and above at LDRS, what about at your UKRA 
>meet?.

Should be some good flights, hopefully a few M's.  Not nearly as many as at 
the last Klob launch though.

We're at new different site this year to our usual site and i'm not sure 
what the ceiling or Class limit is.

Flying anything above M class in the UK is a bit tricky.  We did have an N 
at last years UKRA though.

DamianB

-- 
Damian Burrin
UKRA 1159 Level 2 RSO

http://www.ukrocketry.com
http://www.larf-rocketry.co.uk

LARF - Putting the amateur back in rocketry!!

On Jul 4, 6:42 pm, Anonymous  wrote:
> OK Brits,
>
> How many of you are coming over to LDRS this year.
> This year looks to be good, though I notice that you have your own meet on the same days.
> We will have plenty of M's and above at LDRS, what about at your UKRA meet?.
>
> Robert Talisson

There are 7 of us coming over this year. At least 3 of us are bringing
rockets to fly some of the others may buy and build rockets to fly
while they are out.

Cath
TRA 8616
TAP
Prefect Tripoli UK (#108)

On 5 Jul, 09:08, bfo  wrote:
> On Jul 4, 6:42 pm, Anonymous  wrote:
>
> > OK Brits,
>
> > How many of you are coming over to LDRS this year.
> > This year looks to be good, though I notice that you have your own meet on the same days.
> > We will have plenty of M's and above at LDRS, what about at your UKRA meet?.
>
> > Robert Talisson
>
> There are 7 of us coming over this year. At least 3 of us are bringing
> rockets to fly some of the others may buy and build rockets to fly
> while they are out.
>
> Cath
> TRA 8616
> TAP
> Prefect Tripoli UK (#108)

Pete Williams is also joining us now, so I believe the Brit Possy is
now 8.

Richard

> We're at new different site this year to our usual site and i'm not sure
> what the ceiling or Class limit is.
>
Hi Damian

>From the BK website

"This is a "K Class" site, with ceiling heights of....

6,000ft ceiling for single recovery
12,000ft ceiling for dual recovery

Launches to altitudes between 12,000ft and 25,000ft must be by prior
arrangement only. We regret that vehicles that are likely to breach
12,000ft ceiling, which have not been arranged before the launch
meeting will not be allowed to fly."

If I understood a post elsewhere correctly the UK has come into line
with Europe and the new unrestricted altitude is now 19,500ft so the
club will need to update the site.

Vehicles with propulsion systems over the K class limit may be flown
from Milson however the UKRA safety code of course applies and limits
such vehicles to an altitude of 5249ft (from a K class site)

Hope the above helps

regards

Mark
UKRA 1010 LII RSO

>Hope the above helps

Thanks Mark.

I am hoping to make it for the day.

Damian

-- 
Damian Burrin
UKRA 1159 Level 2 RSO

http://www.ukrocketry.com
http://www.larf-rocketry.co.uk

LARF - Putting the amateur back in rocketry!!

On Jul 6, 5:02 pm, "Damian Burrin"  wrote:
> >Hope the above helps
>
> Thanks Mark.
>
> I am hoping to make it for the day.

I suspect I won't make it unfortunately. Call me a traitor, but I'm
split between UKRA, a friend's wedding and RIAT at Fairford that
weekend...and it's a while since I last saw (and felt) a B1-B at low
altitude on full afterburner.

With regard to altitude ceilings - would this mean that you could, for
example, fly a min-dia 54mm K660-powered rocket at Milson, but not the
same rocket on an L730?

I realise a line has to be drawn somewhere, and rules are in place for
good reasons, but it seems a bit 'academic' to base an altitude limit
on total impulse. Given the possibility of flying to 12kft and
upwards, the likelyhood of recovering within the 'launch site' itself
is pretty minimal, so does it really make any difference what size
motor the rocket is launched with? I'd have thought that a metric
based on rocket size/mass and altitude would make more sense, as
surely the main concern is controlling the downrange area in which
rockets of a given size are likely to end up in.

Just a thought, anyway.

Niall

"Niall Oswald (via Google)" wrote in message

> I suspect I won't make it unfortunately. Call me a traitor, but I'm
> split between UKRA, a friend's wedding and RIAT at Fairford that
> weekend...and it's a while since I last saw (and felt) a B1-B at low
> altitude on full afterburner.
>
Your feelings are appreciated!  There will always be another UKRA!

> With regard to altitude ceilings - would this mean that you could, for
> example, fly a min-dia 54mm K660-powered rocket at Milson, but not the
> same rocket on an L730?
>
Yes you could, so long as you didn't break the altitude limits as set by the 
Safety Code.

> I realise a line has to be drawn somewhere, and rules are in place for
> good reasons, but it seems a bit 'academic' to base an altitude limit
> on total impulse. Given the possibility of flying to 12kft and
> upwards, the likelyhood of recovering within the 'launch site' itself
> is pretty minimal, so does it really make any difference what size
> motor the rocket is launched with? I'd have thought that a metric
> based on rocket size/mass and altitude would make more sense, as
> surely the main concern is controlling the downrange area in which
> rockets of a given size are likely to end up in.
>
That's where the safety code leaves a bit to be desired in some areas.  The 
intentions and principles are good but there are some anomolies when you 
apply the calcs.

-- 
Dave B
UKRA 1180

Ah, Fairford '89- last time I saw the Vulcan.
Not long to wait now though...  http://www.tvoc.co.uk/
"Niall Oswald (via Google)"  wrote in message
news:1183759104.037478.219080@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 6, 5:02 pm, "Damian Burrin"  wrote:
> > >Hope the above helps
> >
> > Thanks Mark.
> >
> > I am hoping to make it for the day.
>
> I suspect I won't make it unfortunately. Call me a traitor, but I'm
> split between UKRA, a friend's wedding and RIAT at Fairford that
> weekend...and it's a while since I last saw (and felt) a B1-B at low
> altitude on full afterburner.
>
> With regard to altitude ceilings - would this mean that you could, for
> example, fly a min-dia 54mm K660-powered rocket at Milson, but not the
> same rocket on an L730?
>
> I realise a line has to be drawn somewhere, and rules are in place for
> good reasons, but it seems a bit 'academic' to base an altitude limit
> on total impulse. Given the possibility of flying to 12kft and
> upwards, the likelyhood of recovering within the 'launch site' itself
> is pretty minimal, so does it really make any difference what size
> motor the rocket is launched with? I'd have thought that a metric
> based on rocket size/mass and altitude would make more sense, as
> surely the main concern is controlling the downrange area in which
> rockets of a given size are likely to end up in.
>
> Just a thought, anyway.
>
> Niall
>
>

On 7 Jul, 00:33, "Bowler's End"  wrote:
> "Niall Oswald (via Google)" wrote in message

>
> > I realise a line has to be drawn somewhere, and rules are in place for
> > good reasons, but it seems a bit 'academic' to base an altitude limit
> > on total impulse. Given the possibility of flying to 12kft and
> > upwards, the likelyhood of recovering within the 'launch site' itself
> > is pretty minimal, so does it really make any difference what size
> > motor the rocket is launched with? I'd have thought that a metric
> > based on rocket size/mass and altitude would make more sense, as
> > surely the main concern is controlling the downrange area in which
> > rockets of a given size are likely to end up in.
>
> That's where the safety code leaves a bit to be desired in some areas.  The
> intentions and principles are good but there are some anomolies when you
> apply the calcs.
>
> --
> Dave B
> UKRA 1180

Hi Niall

Just so there is no doubt, the rules we follow ref propulsion system
classes exceeding the class of the site, are those in the Safety Code
and apply to all UKRA affiliated clubs and launches. I know there is a
Safety Code revision nearing completion, it may be that this is one of
the areas being addressed.

regards

Mark

On Jul 7, 10:20 am, Mark  wrote:

> Just so there is no doubt, the rules we follow ref propulsion system
> classes exceeding the class of the site, are those in the Safety Code
> and apply to all UKRA affiliated clubs and launches. I know there is a
> Safety Code revision nearing completion, it may be that this is one of
> the areas being addressed.

Not to worry Mark - your first post made that clear. I was questioning
the safety code more than anything else. Good to hear that it's being
updated.

As for the Vulcan (other Mark), they said at Kemble that hopefully it
will make an airshow later this year. I shall be keeping an eye on
their progress as I was present the last time it flew and would really
like to see it again.

Niall

Richard Brown wrote On 05/07/2007 17:03:

> 
> Pete Williams is also joining us now, so I believe the Brit Possy is
> now 8.
> 
> Richard
> 
Richard, that is good news.

Could you or any of the others do me a small favour when out at LDRS.
It's nothing big that will take to much time ;-)

Could you take some photo's of AeroTech's new Mojave Green propellant in
use. I would love to see this in action.

Thanks

-- 

Sean
Level 2 RSO
http://rocketry.arrowsmith.uk.com
"If pigs could fly...What would the world be like"

On 9 Jul, 18:24, Sean Arrowsmith <m...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Richard Brown wrote On 05/07/2007 17:03:
>
>
>
> > Pete Williams is also joining us now, so I believe the Brit Possy is
> > now 8.
>
> > Richard
>
> Richard, that is good news.
>
> Could you or any of the others do me a small favour when out at LDRS.
> It's nothing big that will take to much time ;-)
>
> Could you take some photo's of AeroTech's new Mojave Green propellant in
> use. I would love to see this in action.
>
> Thanks
>
> --
>
> Sean
> Level 2 RSOhttp://rocketry.arrowsmith.uk.com
> "If pigs could fly...What would the world be like"

Hi

I will try

Richard

>How many of you are coming over to LDRS this year.

I think there is about 4 or 5 that have planned on going to LDRS that i'm 
aware of

>We will have plenty of M's and above at LDRS, what about at your UKRA 
>meet?.

Should be some good flights, hopefully a few M's.  Not nearly as many as at 
the last Klob launch though.

We're at new different site this year to our usual site and i'm not sure 
what the ceiling or Class limit is.

Flying anything above M class in the UK is a bit tricky.  We did have an N 
at last years UKRA though.

DamianB

-- 
Damian Burrin
UKRA 1159 Level 2 RSO

http://www.ukrocketry.com
http://www.larf-rocketry.co.uk

LARF - Putting the amateur back in rocketry!!

On Jul 4, 6:42 pm, Anonymous  wrote:
> OK Brits,
>
> How many of you are coming over to LDRS this year.
> This year looks to be good, though I notice that you have your own meet on the same days.
> We will have plenty of M's and above at LDRS, what about at your UKRA meet?.
>
> Robert Talisson

There are 7 of us coming over this year. At least 3 of us are bringing
rockets to fly some of the others may buy and build rockets to fly
while they are out.

Cath
TRA 8616
TAP
Prefect Tripoli UK (#108)

On 5 Jul, 09:08, bfo  wrote:
> On Jul 4, 6:42 pm, Anonymous  wrote:
>
> > OK Brits,
>
> > How many of you are coming over to LDRS this year.
> > This year looks to be good, though I notice that you have your own meet on the same days.
> > We will have plenty of M's and above at LDRS, what about at your UKRA meet?.
>
> > Robert Talisson
>
> There are 7 of us coming over this year. At least 3 of us are bringing
> rockets to fly some of the others may buy and build rockets to fly
> while they are out.
>
> Cath
> TRA 8616
> TAP
> Prefect Tripoli UK (#108)

Pete Williams is also joining us now, so I believe the Brit Possy is
now 8.

Richard

> We're at new different site this year to our usual site and i'm not sure
> what the ceiling or Class limit is.
>
Hi Damian

>From the BK website

"This is a "K Class" site, with ceiling heights of....

6,000ft ceiling for single recovery
12,000ft ceiling for dual recovery

Launches to altitudes between 12,000ft and 25,000ft must be by prior
arrangement only. We regret that vehicles that are likely to breach
12,000ft ceiling, which have not been arranged before the launch
meeting will not be allowed to fly."

If I understood a post elsewhere correctly the UK has come into line
with Europe and the new unrestricted altitude is now 19,500ft so the
club will need to update the site.

Vehicles with propulsion systems over the K class limit may be flown
from Milson however the UKRA safety code of course applies and limits
such vehicles to an altitude of 5249ft (from a K class site)

Hope the above helps

regards

Mark
UKRA 1010 LII RSO

>Hope the above helps

Thanks Mark.

I am hoping to make it for the day.

Damian

-- 
Damian Burrin
UKRA 1159 Level 2 RSO

http://www.ukrocketry.com
http://www.larf-rocketry.co.uk

LARF - Putting the amateur back in rocketry!!

On Jul 6, 5:02 pm, "Damian Burrin"  wrote:
> >Hope the above helps
>
> Thanks Mark.
>
> I am hoping to make it for the day.

I suspect I won't make it unfortunately. Call me a traitor, but I'm
split between UKRA, a friend's wedding and RIAT at Fairford that
weekend...and it's a while since I last saw (and felt) a B1-B at low
altitude on full afterburner.

With regard to altitude ceilings - would this mean that you could, for
example, fly a min-dia 54mm K660-powered rocket at Milson, but not the
same rocket on an L730?

I realise a line has to be drawn somewhere, and rules are in place for
good reasons, but it seems a bit 'academic' to base an altitude limit
on total impulse. Given the possibility of flying to 12kft and
upwards, the likelyhood of recovering within the 'launch site' itself
is pretty minimal, so does it really make any difference what size
motor the rocket is launched with? I'd have thought that a metric
based on rocket size/mass and altitude would make more sense, as
surely the main concern is controlling the downrange area in which
rockets of a given size are likely to end up in.

Just a thought, anyway.

Niall

"Niall Oswald (via Google)" wrote in message

> I suspect I won't make it unfortunately. Call me a traitor, but I'm
> split between UKRA, a friend's wedding and RIAT at Fairford that
> weekend...and it's a while since I last saw (and felt) a B1-B at low
> altitude on full afterburner.
>
Your feelings are appreciated!  There will always be another UKRA!

> With regard to altitude ceilings - would this mean that you could, for
> example, fly a min-dia 54mm K660-powered rocket at Milson, but not the
> same rocket on an L730?
>
Yes you could, so long as you didn't break the altitude limits as set by the 
Safety Code.

> I realise a line has to be drawn somewhere, and rules are in place for
> good reasons, but it seems a bit 'academic' to base an altitude limit
> on total impulse. Given the possibility of flying to 12kft and
> upwards, the likelyhood of recovering within the 'launch site' itself
> is pretty minimal, so does it really make any difference what size
> motor the rocket is launched with? I'd have thought that a metric
> based on rocket size/mass and altitude would make more sense, as
> surely the main concern is controlling the downrange area in which
> rockets of a given size are likely to end up in.
>
That's where the safety code leaves a bit to be desired in some areas.  The 
intentions and principles are good but there are some anomolies when you 
apply the calcs.

-- 
Dave B
UKRA 1180

Ah, Fairford '89- last time I saw the Vulcan.
Not long to wait now though...  http://www.tvoc.co.uk/
"Niall Oswald (via Google)"  wrote in message
news:1183759104.037478.219080@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 6, 5:02 pm, "Damian Burrin"  wrote:
> > >Hope the above helps
> >
> > Thanks Mark.
> >
> > I am hoping to make it for the day.
>
> I suspect I won't make it unfortunately. Call me a traitor, but I'm
> split between UKRA, a friend's wedding and RIAT at Fairford that
> weekend...and it's a while since I last saw (and felt) a B1-B at low
> altitude on full afterburner.
>
> With regard to altitude ceilings - would this mean that you could, for
> example, fly a min-dia 54mm K660-powered rocket at Milson, but not the
> same rocket on an L730?
>
> I realise a line has to be drawn somewhere, and rules are in place for
> good reasons, but it seems a bit 'academic' to base an altitude limit
> on total impulse. Given the possibility of flying to 12kft and
> upwards, the likelyhood of recovering within the 'launch site' itself
> is pretty minimal, so does it really make any difference what size
> motor the rocket is launched with? I'd have thought that a metric
> based on rocket size/mass and altitude would make more sense, as
> surely the main concern is controlling the downrange area in which
> rockets of a given size are likely to end up in.
>
> Just a thought, anyway.
>
> Niall
>
>

On 7 Jul, 00:33, "Bowler's End"  wrote:
> "Niall Oswald (via Google)" wrote in message

>
> > I realise a line has to be drawn somewhere, and rules are in place for
> > good reasons, but it seems a bit 'academic' to base an altitude limit
> > on total impulse. Given the possibility of flying to 12kft and
> > upwards, the likelyhood of recovering within the 'launch site' itself
> > is pretty minimal, so does it really make any difference what size
> > motor the rocket is launched with? I'd have thought that a metric
> > based on rocket size/mass and altitude would make more sense, as
> > surely the main concern is controlling the downrange area in which
> > rockets of a given size are likely to end up in.
>
> That's where the safety code leaves a bit to be desired in some areas.  The
> intentions and principles are good but there are some anomolies when you
> apply the calcs.
>
> --
> Dave B
> UKRA 1180

Hi Niall

Just so there is no doubt, the rules we follow ref propulsion system
classes exceeding the class of the site, are those in the Safety Code
and apply to all UKRA affiliated clubs and launches. I know there is a
Safety Code revision nearing completion, it may be that this is one of
the areas being addressed.

regards

Mark

On Jul 7, 10:20 am, Mark  wrote:

> Just so there is no doubt, the rules we follow ref propulsion system
> classes exceeding the class