Hi

Living midway between Emley Moor and Bilsdale I have my TV aerial 
pointed to Emley Moor, but every time I scan for channels my Sony TV 
seems to prefer to pick up Bilsdale first and then stuffs all the Emley 
Moor output in the channel number range 800-900.

I would like to filter out Bilsdale, auto scan, remove the filter then 
manually add the small number of Bilsdale channels I would like to view.

Is there a suitable device that I can 'plug in' between the wall outlet 
and TV input to filter out the Bilsdale transmissions?

RS, Farnell or CPC part nos would be a bonus! ;)

-- 
Regards
Barry

"Barry"  wrote in message 
news:6jmrv0F42p55U1@mid.individual.net...
> Hi
>
> Living midway between Emley Moor and Bilsdale I have my TV aerial 
> pointed to Emley Moor, but every time I scan for channels my Sony TV 
> seems to prefer to pick up Bilsdale first and then stuffs all the 
> Emley Moor output in the channel number range 800-900.
>
> I would like to filter out Bilsdale, auto scan, remove the filter then 
> manually add the small number of Bilsdale channels I would like to 
> view.
>
> Is there a suitable device that I can 'plug in' between the wall 
> outlet and TV input to filter out the Bilsdale transmissions?
>
> RS, Farnell or CPC part nos would be a bonus! ;)
>
> -- 
> Regards
> Barry


Doesn't your Sony provide the ability to put the channels in the order 
you want them?

Otherwise if you work by direct number entry you've only got to remember 
three!


-- 
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com

I have a similar problem here, Barry, with Winter Hill channels coming 
in during periods of high pressure and/or sporadic-E propagation.

I find the answer to be to insert an attenuator in the aerial lead while 
the scan is being done, and then to remove it for normal viewing. At my 
location, Emley Moor is the stronger but at times Winter Hill can cause 
a problem.  In my case I find that an 18dB attenuator does the trick, 
but you might need a higher attenuation if Bilsdale is not much weaker 
than Emley Moor.

David

In a recent message, Barry  wrote ...
>Hi
>
>Living midway between Emley Moor and Bilsdale I have my TV aerial 
>pointed to Emley Moor, but every time I scan for channels my Sony TV 
>seems to prefer to pick up Bilsdale first and then stuffs all the Emley 
>Moor output in the channel number range 800-900.
>
>I would like to filter out Bilsdale, auto scan, remove the filter then 
>manually add the small number of Bilsdale channels I would like to view.
>
>Is there a suitable device that I can 'plug in' between the wall outlet 
>and TV input to filter out the Bilsdale transmissions?
>
>RS, Farnell or CPC part nos would be a bonus! ;)
>

-- 
+- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +
| David M Pratt, Kippax, Leeds, UK |
| http://www.g4dmp.co.uk           |
+- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +

"Barry"  wrote in message 
news:6jmrv0F42p55U1@mid.individual.net...
> Hi
>
> Living midway between Emley Moor and Bilsdale I have my TV aerial pointed 
> to Emley Moor, but every time I scan for channels my Sony TV seems to 
> prefer to pick up Bilsdale first and then stuffs all the Emley Moor output 
> in the channel number range 800-900.
>
> I would like to filter out Bilsdale, auto scan, remove the filter then 
> manually add the small number of Bilsdale channels I would like to view.
>
> Is there a suitable device that I can 'plug in' between the wall outlet 
> and TV input to filter out the Bilsdale transmissions?
>
> RS, Farnell or CPC part nos would be a bonus! ;)

You can filter out five of the Bilsdale muxes with a simple Group B bandpass 
filter. Can't remember the model number but if you ask for a Maxview Group B 
bandpass filter that should find it. Alternatively use an A to B+C/D 
diplexer and connect via the B+C/D port only (In theory you need to put a 
75ohm res across the Group A input). These options are not perfect, and the 
rejection of Bilsdale ch34 will only be perhaps 9dB. A better way is to use 
a filter designed to pass Emley Moor signals only. The item is a Taylor 
TCFL5D (Emley Moor) with one common input. I'll send you one for £110 incl 
carriage and VAT if you like. Trade they are about £77 plus tax I think.

Even the TCFL won't do anything to remove Bilsdale mux D, which is adjacent 
to an Emley mux. To do that you'd need to spend about £700.

Bill

Bill Wright wrote:

> You can filter out five of the Bilsdale muxes with a simple Group B bandpass 
> filter. Can't remember the model number but if you ask for a Maxview Group B 
> bandpass filter that should find it. Alternatively use an A to B+C/D 
> diplexer and connect via the B+C/D port only (In theory you need to put a 
> 75ohm res across the Group A input). These options are not perfect, and the 
> rejection of Bilsdale ch34 will only be perhaps 9dB. A better way is to use 
> a filter designed to pass Emley Moor signals only. The item is a Taylor 
> TCFL5D (Emley Moor) with one common input. I'll send you one for £110 incl 
> carriage and VAT if you like. Trade they are about £77 plus tax I think.

> Even the TCFL won't do anything to remove Bilsdale mux D, which is adjacent 
> to an Emley mux. To do that you'd need to spend about £700.

For a tenner I'll give the Maxview a go, with two 'F' connectors I can 
plug it in in the loft to the existing connector. I knew that F 
connector would come in useful one day!

Thank you Bill for the information, it's very useful having a venerable 
old sage on tap!

-- 
Regards
Barry

On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 13:11:16 +0100, Barry  wrote:

>Hi
>
>Living midway between Emley Moor and Bilsdale I have my TV aerial 
>pointed to Emley Moor, but every time I scan for channels my Sony TV 
>seems to prefer to pick up Bilsdale first and then stuffs all the Emley 
>Moor output in the channel number range 800-900.

Does the TV tell you the channel numbers it's tuning to as it does the
scan?

In the past, I've got round problems like this by just un-plugging the
aerial lead when the box tells me it's about to tune to one of the
offending muxes, then plugging it back in for the muxes I wanted. 

Cheers,

Colin.

Colin Stamp wrote:

>> Living midway between Emley Moor and Bilsdale I have my TV aerial 
>> pointed to Emley Moor, but every time I scan for channels my Sony TV 
>> seems to prefer to pick up Bilsdale first and then stuffs all the Emley 
>> Moor output in the channel number range 800-900.

> Does the TV tell you the channel numbers it's tuning to as it does the
> scan?

> In the past, I've got round problems like this by just un-plugging the
> aerial lead when the box tells me it's about to tune to one of the
> offending muxes, then plugging it back in for the muxes I wanted. 

My Sony suffers from being to clever for its own good!

I've ordered a Maxview filter as suggested by Bill, worth a try for a 
tenner.

-- 
Regards
Barry

On Sep 21, 1:11 pm, Barry  wrote:

> Living midway between Emley Moor and Bilsdale I have my TV aerial
> pointed to Emley Moor, but every time I scan for channels my Sony TV
> seems to prefer to pick up Bilsdale first and then stuffs all the Emley
> Moor output in the channel number range 800-900.

I'm also midway between the two transmitters, and with an aerial
pointing strait at Emley Moor. I only ever receive one muliplex from
Bilsdale when I rescan - namely Mux B. It didn't really cause a
problem, as my STB put all of the Bilsdale channels in the 800 range.
However I started to get odd problems with my Grundig GDT2000 after
one particular software update, when radio stations became
unpredictable.

I resolve the problem by setting the modulator output channel to 24
(the same as Bilsdale's mux B), and temporarily turning on the
modulator prior to a rescan.

Since then the Grundig box has failed with a PSU problem, and I've
switched to another box that so far hasn't found Bilsdale.

"PGG"  wrote in message 
news:165f49c2-c147-418b-a5eb-57331064c5b6@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 21, 1:11 pm, Barry  wrote:


I resolve the problem by setting the modulator output channel to 24
(the same as Bilsdale's mux B), and temporarily turning on the
modulator prior to a rescan.

That's a good wheeze. It might even be the way to blank out the ch42 mux. It 
might do that without buggering up the Emley one on 43.

Incidentally I wonder if the OP has a good aerial looking at Emley Moor. And 
how strong the two sets of signals are relatively. With the bandpass filter 
in place all the Bilsdale signals should surely be weaker than all the Emley 
ones, so the addition of an attenuator during tuning might just be enough to 
kill that pesky ch34 signal.

Bill

On Sep 21, 3:32 pm, David Pratt  wrote:
> I have a similar problem here, Barry, with Winter Hill channels coming
> in during periods of high pressure and/or sporadic-E propagation.

This is also a common problem for those within Winter Hill's intended
coverage area, because for some obscure reason, Mux C and D are
duplicated on CH43 and 40 respectively at low power. Many of these
half-baked, not fit-for-purpose freeview boxes simply find and store
the weak and unusable 40/43 signals.
You'll get the correct version dumped in the 800 numbers if you're
lucky, but on some boxes they're just ignored.

"Barry"  wrote in message 
news:6jn6vqF44cv2U1@mid.individual.net...
> Bill Wright wrote:
>
>> You can filter out five of the Bilsdale muxes with a simple Group B 
>> bandpass filter. Can't remember the model number but if you ask for a 
>> Maxview Group B bandpass filter that should find it. Alternatively use an 
>> A to B+C/D diplexer and connect via the B+C/D port only (In theory you 
>> need to put a 75ohm res across the Group A input). These options are not 
>> perfect, and the rejection of Bilsdale ch34 will only be perhaps 9dB. A 
>> better way is to use a filter designed to pass Emley Moor signals only. 
>> The item is a Taylor TCFL5D (Emley Moor) with one common input. I'll send 
>> you one for £110 incl carriage and VAT if you like. Trade they are about 
>> £77 plus tax I think.
>
>> Even the TCFL won't do anything to remove Bilsdale mux D, which is 
>> adjacent to an Emley mux. To do that you'd need to spend about £700.
>
> For a tenner I'll give the Maxview a go, with two 'F' connectors I can 
> plug it in in the loft to the existing connector. I knew that F connector 
> would come in useful one day!

These filters aren't magic. They are broadly tuned passive filters, so they 
don't stop out-of-band signals completely. And since the filter has to pass 
ch 37 it won't have much effect of ch34. For all I know they might be 
designed to pass ch35! Ohh eck! In that case a two stage notch filter tuned 
to ch34 would be good. Taylor TBBF4 or the Alcad equivalent (which is four 
stage and a bugger to tune) would do it.

>
> Thank you Bill for the information, it's very useful having a venerable 
> old sage on tap!
Hmm . . .

Bill

I'd doubt  it very much. You would need to somehow selectively filter the 
channels from that source, which are all over the place and hope it was too 
low then to  upset the sony.
What I cannot understand is that radio scanners have had channel lock out 
facilities for menay years, some similar feature on a tv would stop all this 
crap.

Brian

-- 
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
 graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email: briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________


"Barry"  wrote in message 
news:6jmrv0F42p55U1@mid.individual.net...
> Hi
>
> Living midway between Emley Moor and Bilsdale I have my TV aerial pointed 
> to Emley Moor, but every time I scan for channels my Sony TV seems to 
> prefer to pick up Bilsdale first and then stuffs all the Emley Moor output 
> in the channel number range 800-900.
>
> I would like to filter out Bilsdale, auto scan, remove the filter then 
> manually add the small number of Bilsdale channels I would like to view.
>
> Is there a suitable device that I can 'plug in' between the wall outlet 
> and TV input to filter out the Bilsdale transmissions?
>
> RS, Farnell or CPC part nos would be a bonus! ;)
>
> -- 
> Regards
> Barry

Another  way, assuming the lie of the land and local buildings allow it is 
to site an eariel, temporarily low down with a reasonably clear view of the 
wanted transmitter and a building screening the unwanted one. Then you can 
tune in the ones you want, store and go back to the other aerial.

Brian

-- 
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
 graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email: briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________


"David Pratt"  wrote in message 
news:9Yua3bBnrl1IFwFL@g4dmp.fsnet.co.uk...
>I have a similar problem here, Barry, with Winter Hill channels coming in 
>during periods of high pressure and/or sporadic-E propagation.
>
> I find the answer to be to insert an attenuator in the aerial lead while 
> the scan is being done, and then to remove it for normal viewing. At my 
> location, Emley Moor is the stronger but at times Winter Hill can cause a 
> problem.  In my case I find that an 18dB attenuator does the trick, but 
> you might need a higher attenuation if Bilsdale is not much weaker than 
> Emley Moor.
>
> David
>
> In a recent message, Barry  wrote ...
>>Hi
>>
>>Living midway between Emley Moor and Bilsdale I have my TV aerial pointed 
>>to Emley Moor, but every time I scan for channels my Sony TV seems to 
>>prefer to pick up Bilsdale first and then stuffs all the Emley Moor output 
>>in the channel number range 800-900.
>>
>>I would like to filter out Bilsdale, auto scan, remove the filter then 
>>manually add the small number of Bilsdale channels I would like to view.
>>
>>Is there a suitable device that I can 'plug in' between the wall outlet 
>>and TV input to filter out the Bilsdale transmissions?
>>
>>RS, Farnell or CPC part nos would be a bonus! ;)
>>
>
> -- 
> +- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +
> | David M Pratt, Kippax, Leeds, UK |
> | http://www.g4dmp.co.uk           |
> +- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +

Oh, happy days making notch filter with stubs of coax joined in the 
downlead. Problem was finding a safe place for it where it did not pick up 
and was undisturbed and out of the weather. Adjustment via a pair of side 
cutters.....:-)

Brian

-- 
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
 graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email: briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________


"Bill Wright"  wrote in message 
news:9cudnT7mtZ1u_EvVnZ2dnUVZ8sDinZ2d@pipex.net...
>
> "Barry"  wrote in message 
> news:6jmrv0F42p55U1@mid.individual.net...
>> Hi
>>
>> Living midway between Emley Moor and Bilsdale I have my TV aerial pointed 
>> to Emley Moor, but every time I scan for channels my Sony TV seems to 
>> prefer to pick up Bilsdale first and then stuffs all the Emley Moor 
>> output in the channel number range 800-900.
>>
>> I would like to filter out Bilsdale, auto scan, remove the filter then 
>> manually add the small number of Bilsdale channels I would like to view.
>>
>> Is there a suitable device that I can 'plug in' between the wall outlet 
>> and TV input to filter out the Bilsdale transmissions?
>>
>> RS, Farnell or CPC part nos would be a bonus! ;)
>
> You can filter out five of the Bilsdale muxes with a simple Group B 
> bandpass filter. Can't remember the model number but if you ask for a 
> Maxview Group B bandpass filter that should find it. Alternatively use an 
> A to B+C/D diplexer and connect via the B+C/D port only (In theory you 
> need to put a 75ohm res across the Group A input). These options are not 
> perfect, and the rejection of Bilsdale ch34 will only be perhaps 9dB. A 
> better way is to use a filter designed to pass Emley Moor signals only. 
> The item is a Taylor TCFL5D (Emley Moor) with one common input. I'll send 
> you one for £110 incl carriage and VAT if you like. Trade they are about 
> £77 plus tax I think.
>
> Even the TCFL won't do anything to remove Bilsdale mux D, which is 
> adjacent to an Emley mux. To do that you'd need to spend about £700.
>
> Bill
>

On 21/09/2008 22:36:28, "Bill Wright" wrote:
 
> These filters aren't magic. They are broadly tuned passive filters, so
> they don't stop out-of-band signals completely. And since the filter has
> to pass ch 37 it won't have much effect of ch34. For all I know they might
> be designed to pass ch35! Ohh eck! In that case a two stage notch filter
> tuned to ch34 would be good. Taylor TBBF4 or the Alcad equivalent (which
> is four stage and a bugger to tune) would do it.

If all it does is allow my TV to tune Emley Moor in preference to Bilsdale
then I'll be very happy. Any post tuning fiddling and tidying up I'm happy to
do manually.

It's a pity that all this started after the so-called over the airwaves
'upgrade'. It may have given me 3 digit channel numbers but it's caused me 3
times as much work to tune the damn thing in!

Thanks very much for the gift of your knowledge and experience.

-- 
Regards
Barry

In article <mJHBk.61195$E41.13803@text.news.virginmedia.com>, Brian Gaff
 scribeth thus
>I'd doubt  it very much. You would need to somehow selectively filter the 
>channels from that source, which are all over the place and hope it was too 
>low then to  upset the sony.
>What I cannot understand is that radio scanners have had channel lock out 
>facilities for menay years, some similar feature on a tv would stop all this 
>crap.

And how many members of the great public would be able to set those
properly?..
>
>Brian
>

-- 
Tony Sayer

On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 14:35:25 -0700, jamie_p84 wrote:
 > This is also a common problem for those within Winter Hill's intended
 > coverage area, because for some obscure reason, Mux C and D are
 > duplicated on CH43 and 40 respectively at low power.

Multiplex C and Multiplex D are broadcast from Winter Hill on channels
60 and 63 respectively.

Because these two channels are already in use for analog HTV Wales and 
BBC-2 Wales respectively from Llanddona, Ynys Môn, and the Winter Hill 
signal does get this far out along the Gogledd Cymru coast, the 
transmission of these two multiplexes from Winter Hill must therefore be 
restricted in the West/South West direction.

It is for this reason that Winter Hill B provides these two multiplexes
on channels 40 and 43 at reduced power to fill in the missing coverage
area.

A similar situation arises at the Wrekin, which is why there is also
an additional set of transmissions from Wrekin East.

Now, has anybody seen any activity on the new channel 50 trial multiplex
from Winter Hill?

"BJH"  wrote in message 
news:6jp213F4bq6hU1@mid.individual.net...
> On 21/09/2008 22:36:28, "Bill Wright" wrote:
> Thanks very much for the gift of your knowledge and experience.
Oh what a nice man. Can I do anything else for you?

Bill

Bill Wright wrote:

> Oh what a nice man. Can I do anything else for you?

Hi Bill,

Just as a follow up the filter allowed the auto tune to make a much 
better job of allocating the Emley Moor transmissions, but, you were 
quite correct in your observation that CH34 would still creep through.

 From my point of view the interesting point is that the Sony EPG can't 
handle more than one of the same channel on different frequencies (is 
that the right terminology?), so if I have BBC1 on CH52 (Yorks) then 
manually add BBC1 on CH34 (NE) the EPG for CH34 won't work. The same 
applies for the YTV/TTTV offerings.

Before the OAD all channels would work.

Ah well, progress I guess?

-- 
Regards
Barry

"Barry"  wrote in message 
news:6jvdaaF569joU1@mid.individual.net...
> Bill Wright wrote:
>
>> Oh what a nice man. Can I do anything else for you?
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> Just as a follow up the filter allowed the auto tune to make a much better 
> job of allocating the Emley Moor transmissions, but, you were quite 
> correct in your observation that CH34 would still creep through.

Did I mention the Alcan four-way notch filter? You could tune that to kill 
the ch34 (you can set any number of the stages from one to all four to the 
same channel if you want and get a really deep notch -- about 40dB!)

Or add a variable attenuator. Or a second bandpass filter (I've seen it 
done).

>
> From my point of view the interesting point is that the Sony EPG can't 
> handle more than one of the same channel on different frequencies (is that 
> the right terminology?), so if I have BBC1 on CH52 (Yorks) then manually 
> add BBC1 on CH34 (NE) the EPG for CH34 won't work. The same applies for 
> the YTV/TTTV offerings.
>
> Before the OAD all channels would work.
Typical.

>
> Ah well, progress I guess?
Like a lot of other things. Change is not the same thing as progess.

Bill

On 24/09/2008 19:51:53, "Bill Wright" wrote:

> Did I mention the Alcan four-way notch filter? You could tune that to kill
> the ch34 (you can set any number of the stages from one to all four to the
> same channel if you want and get a really deep notch -- about 40dB!)
 
> Or add a variable attenuator. Or a second bandpass filter (I've seen it
> done).

> Like a lot of other things. Change is not the same thing as progess.

I was looking at the UKfree.tv web site and was surprised to see the proposed
massive increase in transmission power for both EM and Bilsdale after
analogue switchoff.

It got me wondering whether this could actually cause a problem for me being
midway between both transmitters?

I have asked before about this, but it struck me that assuming that both BBC
and ITV will maintain regional programming, it could be useful to be able to
receive both transmitters equally.

Is this something that is feasible? Would it require a 'special' AE or could
I have two AEs either side of the chimney, for instance? Perhaps they would
have to feed some sort of special splitter device?

I'm sure the sage will have all the answers! ;)


-- 
Regards
Barry

On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 11:40:53 +0100, BJH wrote:
> assuming that both BBC and ITV will maintain regional programming

The following should be noted with disapointment and sadness.

1) The quantity of regional programming output by the BBC in England
   has always been poor due to the Londoncentric budgeting keeping money
   away from the English regions and focused on White City and Elstree.
   In fact at one point, BBC-1 North East was showing BBC-1 North's   
   regional program because it did not have the budget to produce its
   own show.

2) There is significantly more regional programming on the BBC national 
   regions (NI, Scotland, and Wales) but with the lower than anticipated 
   licence fee increase, this is going to be cut back and the flagship, 
   something approaching a real regional station in the evenings at 
   least, BBC-2W will disappear completely following DSO.
   [However, the 60 000 Gaelic speakers get their own station BBC Alba, 
   since Scotland's equivalent of S4C has only managed an hour of output 
   per day.]
 
3) ITV plc is forthright in its aim to eliminate regional non-news    
   programming and OfCon has gradually been reducing the required quota, 
   and this will reach zero at DSO.  ITV plc have already put forward 
   plans to drastically reduce the scope of regional news, so the target
   is to eliminate it completely after DSO as well.  Greg Dyke has said
   that ITV plc could continue to offer some regional news if it was given
   public money to do so.

If you want to watch regional programming, the best approach is to
install an FTA satellite so that you can get all of the BBC regional
services, with the most variation being on the national regions,
and just a few remaining vestiges of regional programming left
on ITV-1.  There is however a higher level of regional output
still remaining on stv, and you will still be able to enjoy the
last remaining on-vision continuity on utv ("it's all about you").

And with an FTA satellite receiver, you will be able to watch all
of the full service regional television stations from Deutschland
(BR, HR, MDR, NDR, RBB, rbTV, RBB, SR, SWR, WDR).

"BJH"  wrote in message 
news:6k185kF5gbnfU1@mid.individual.net...
> On 24/09/2008 19:51:53, "Bill Wright" wrote:
> I have asked before about this, but it struck me that assuming that both 
> BBC
> and ITV will maintain regional programming, it could be useful to be able 
> to
> receive both transmitters equally.
>
> Is this something that is feasible? Would it require a 'special' AE or 
> could
> I have two AEs either side of the chimney, for instance? Perhaps they 
> would
> have to feed some sort of special splitter device?
>
> I'm sure the sage will have all the answers! ;)

Sarky!

Post-ASO Bilsdale gets a raw deal since three muxes will be in Gp B, in the 
gaps between Emley channels. At present five are within Gp A, so things will 
get worse not better from the point of view of using an existing grouped 
aerial.

But the three PSB muxes will be in Gp A and not near the top of the group 
either, so you will be able to diplex Emley and Bilsdale and get three PSBs 
from Bils and all six from Emley.

Bill

Bill Wright wrote:

> Sarky!

I didn't mean to be 'sarky', it seemed apt for a man with such a wealth 
of knowledge.

Seriously Bill, thanks for your help, much appreciated.

-- 
Regards
Barry

"Barry"  wrote in message 
news:6k26vdF5kkguU1@mid.individual.net...
> Bill Wright wrote:
>
>> Sarky!
>
> I didn't mean to be 'sarky', it seemed apt for a man with such a wealth of 
> knowledge.

> Seriously Bill, thanks for your help, much appreciated.


You flatter me. But thanks. When I read this newsgroup (and some others) I 
realise how much there is to learn in this big wide world! I advise anyone 
who is a big fish in a small pond to look on the newsgroups and get a 
glimpse of other, bigger ponds. Anyone who thinks they know it all in their 
particular trade or profession should read a few relevant groups and get new 
insights. Humility is good for the soul!

Bill

J G Miller  wrote:

> And with an FTA satellite receiver, you will be able to watch all
> of the full service regional television stations from Deutschland
> (BR, HR, MDR, NDR, RBB, rbTV, RBB, SR, SWR, WDR).

They have all recently changed to different transponders, in order to
increase the bitrates. Wot has being in the EU ever done for us, eh?
 
-- 
Alan Pemberton
Sheffield, South Yorkshire, England
To e-mail me directly, please visit
<http://www.pembers.freeserve.co.uk/index.html#Mail-me>