On Sat, 06 Sep 2008 17:01:37 +0100, Roderick Stewart
 wrote:

>
>Quite possibly, but the most important thing about the one attached to 
>a baby is that it's not attached to you, and therefore it belongs to 
>somebody else, so you have no right to remove it without the owner's 
>permission. I can't think of any other circumstance (except perhaps 
>warfare) in which chopping bits off other people's perfectly healthy 
>bodies without their signed consent would ever be contemplated at all. 
>I find it astonishing that we still do this.
>
It is very difficult to get signed informed consent from a baby.

Parents have the right and duty to decide on medical and
surgical treatment for their babies and underage children.

The question is whether circumcision is a medically necessary
procedure for a baby. I was circumcised for purely medical
reasons. My parents explained this to me years later when I was
able to understand the matter. They did the right thing.

Apart bfrom that I agree with you.

In article , Peter Duncanson 
wrote:
> >
> >Quite possibly, but the most important thing about the one attached to 
> >a baby is that it's not attached to you, and therefore it belongs to 
> >somebody else, so you have no right to remove it without the owner's 
> >permission. I can't think of any other circumstance (except perhaps 
> >warfare) in which chopping bits off other people's perfectly healthy 
> >bodies without their signed consent would ever be contemplated at all. 
> >I find it astonishing that we still do this.
> >
> It is very difficult to get signed informed consent from a baby.

Exactly. So unless there is some life-threatening reason to perform 
surgery, it should not be done. Wait until the person is old enough to 
understand and let them make up their own mind what they want to do with 
their own bodies.

> Parents have the right and duty to decide on medical and
> surgical treatment for their babies and underage children.

Quite so, but far more of these operations are performed than could be 
explained by real medical needs. There's no reason to remove a perfectly 
normal component from a perfectly healthy body, and fashion is not a valid 
reason when it's somebody else's body.
 
> The question is whether circumcision is a medically necessary
> procedure for a baby. I was circumcised for purely medical
> reasons. My parents explained this to me years later when I was
> able to understand the matter. They did the right thing.

I won't ask for details, but if you're happy that your parents had good 
reason, then I guess they must have made the right decision for you. 
Personally I'm glad I have all the extremities I was born with and no 
serious bother from any of them. If I want anything chopped off, it'll be 
my decision.

Rod.
-- 
Virtual Access V6.3 free usenet/email software from 
http://sourceforge.net/projects/virtual-access/

"Peter Duncanson"  wrote in message 
news:hrc5c4lvpvcoc47khetbb5sp1pkus996lb@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 06 Sep 2008 17:01:37 +0100, Roderick Stewart
>  wrote:
>
>>
>>Quite possibly, but the most important thing about the one attached to
>>a baby is that it's not attached to you, and therefore it belongs to
>>somebody else, so you have no right to remove it without the owner's
>>permission. I can't think of any other circumstance (except perhaps
>>warfare) in which chopping bits off other people's perfectly healthy
>>bodies without their signed consent would ever be contemplated at all.
>>I find it astonishing that we still do this.
>>
> It is very difficult to get signed informed consent from a baby.
Of course it is. It's legally impossible to get consent for sex from an 
underage person, so the sexual act is assault even if the child consents. 
That's how it should be.

>
> Parents have the right and duty to decide on medical and
> surgical treatment for their babies and underage children.
Of course. Parents have always had the right and duty make decisions about 
medical treatment on behalf of their children, because this is undeniably in 
the child's best interest. But chopping bits off just because of some 
ludicrous belief rooted in the times when all mankind had to guide it was 
superstition is completely different.

>
> The question is whether circumcision is a medically necessary
> procedure for a baby. I was circumcised for purely medical
> reasons. My parents explained this to me years later when I was
> able to understand the matter. They did the right thing.
Well yes, your parents could only do as the doctors advised. In days gone by 
some medics would prescribe circumcision and tonsilectomy as cure-alls. I 
came close to circumcision because I had an infection, but my dad (who was a 
medic in the war) simply sat me on the draining board, gently pulled the 
foreskin back, and bathed the affected area. It healed completely in three 
days.

Bill

On Sun, 7 Sep 2008 01:45:14 +0100, "Bill Wright"
 wrote:

>In days gone by 
>some medics would prescribe circumcision and tonsilectomy as cure-alls. I 
>came close to circumcision because I had an infection, but my dad (who was a 
>medic in the war) simply sat me on the draining board, gently pulled the 
>foreskin back, and bathed the affected area. It healed completely in three 
>days.

In my case the foreskin was malformed and interfering with the
normal flow of pee. The effect was similar to putting a thumb
over the nozzle of a garden hose. I don't know whether
corrective surgery would be possible today, but at the time
circumcision was the solution.

Peter Duncanson  wrote:

>In my case the foreskin was malformed and interfering with the
>normal flow of pee. The effect was similar to putting a thumb
>over the nozzle of a garden hose. I don't know whether
>corrective surgery would be possible today, but at the time
>circumcision was the solution.

Just the other day, I stumbled across the answer to that on one of the
terrible "4chan" type image boards that I frequent, complete with photos.

Apparently it's called phimosis and is a common problem.  Today it can be
treated in a minor op which is a series of small cuts to the foreskin
which allows it extra stretch when it heals.  Somebody on the board
complained that he had been scheduled for that op and woke up afterwards
to discover that he'd had a full circumcision.

-- 
Dave Farrance

On Sun, 07 Sep 2008 14:04:34 GMT, Dave Farrance
 wrote:

>Peter Duncanson  wrote:
>
>>In my case the foreskin was malformed and interfering with the
>>normal flow of pee. The effect was similar to putting a thumb
>>over the nozzle of a garden hose. I don't know whether
>>corrective surgery would be possible today, but at the time
>>circumcision was the solution.
>
>Just the other day, I stumbled across the answer to that on one of the
>terrible "4chan" type image boards that I frequent, complete with photos.
>
>Apparently it's called phimosis and is a common problem.  Today it can be
>treated in a minor op which is a series of small cuts to the foreskin
>which allows it extra stretch when it heals.  Somebody on the board
>complained that he had been scheduled for that op and woke up afterwards
>to discover that he'd had a full circumcision.

An "Oops!" moment.

Surgeon: "We really must apologise sir. We could consider a
transplant if you are interested. It might take some time to
find a donor, though. Do you have any preference regarding skin
colour, or would any colour do?"

"Peter Duncanson"  wrote in message 
news:hrc5c4lvpvcoc47khetbb5sp1pkus996lb@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 06 Sep 2008 17:01:37 +0100, Roderick Stewart
<snip>
> It is very difficult to get signed informed consent from a baby.
>
> Parents have the right and duty to decide on medical and
> surgical treatment for their babies and underage children.
>
> The question is whether circumcision is a medically necessary
> procedure for a baby. I was circumcised for purely medical
> reasons. My parents explained this to me years later when I was
> able to understand the matter. They did the right thing.
>
>
You mean you want to believe your parents, it's not the same thing

Steve Terry

On Sun, 7 Sep 2008 22:21:07 +0100, "Steve Terry"
 wrote:

>"Peter Duncanson"  wrote in message 
>news:hrc5c4lvpvcoc47khetbb5sp1pkus996lb@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 06 Sep 2008 17:01:37 +0100, Roderick Stewart
><snip>
>> It is very difficult to get signed informed consent from a baby.
>>
>> Parents have the right and duty to decide on medical and
>> surgical treatment for their babies and underage children.
>>
>> The question is whether circumcision is a medically necessary
>> procedure for a baby. I was circumcised for purely medical
>> reasons. My parents explained this to me years later when I was
>> able to understand the matter. They did the right thing.
>>
>>
>You mean you want to believe your parents, it's not the same thing
>
It's not a question of wanting to believe my parents. It would
have been totally out of character for either of them to have
misled me.

"Peter Duncanson"  wrote in message 
news:3dj8c4hrllor4g8r9l86mjv9181mmmobj1@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 7 Sep 2008 22:21:07 +0100, "Steve Terry"
>  wrote:
>>"Peter Duncanson"  wrote in message
>>news:hrc5c4lvpvcoc47khetbb5sp1pkus996lb@4ax.com...
>>> On Sat, 06 Sep 2008 17:01:37 +0100, Roderick Stewart
>><snip>
>>> It is very difficult to get signed informed consent from a baby.
>>>
>>> Parents have the right and duty to decide on medical and
>>> surgical treatment for their babies and underage children.
>>>
>>> The question is whether circumcision is a medically necessary
>>> procedure for a baby. I was circumcised for purely medical
>>> reasons. My parents explained this to me years later when I was
>>> able to understand the matter. They did the right thing.
>>>
>>You mean you want to believe your parents, it's not the same thing
>
> It's not a question of wanting to believe my parents. It would
> have been totally out of character for either of them to have
> misled me.
>
>
Did they tell you they were Father Christmas who brought you all
your presents? If not they lied
Everybody lies

The biggest lies Parents make are those they believe are good for you.
And most beliefs are based on fairy tails..

If after that you don't wake up screaming, you didn't get the existential 
truth

Steve Terry