Hello group,
I would welcome any advice about products you  think may be suitable
for my situation, please.

My current set up is a Sky (non-subscription) box with viewing card
and a Panasonic freeview DVD recorder.
The latter has recently started having some 'freezing' type problems ,
the EPG sometimes does not update and the DVD open/close button only
responds to the  request to close infrequently! (I have already tried
total reboot/rescan which seems to fix some of the problems for a few
days or so before it needs doing again. So.....am thinking of having a
change.)

My thoughts at the moment are....
1) I would like to move away from the recording restriction imposed by
DVD size limit.
2) I regularly record from other ITV regions (by taking output from
Sky box to DVD recorder) and whilst this procedure is not particularly
easy to initiate I can live with it
3) I sometimes record radio (typically BBC regional output from areas
other than where I live) to cassette (for use in the car) by taking
output from Sky box to hi-fi.
4) I would like to keep access to BBC interactive services. I had a
Technomate standalone sat receiver that had no access to this service.
5) I frequently record one channel and watch another simultaneously -
using freeview tuner in DVD to record and then watch on Sky
6) I have no real desire to subscribe to any supplier (in practice
this means Sky since we are in rural area with no cable and poor
broadband) but would not rule it out
7) I occasionally archive DVD recordings - typically by copying from
the RAM DVD to PC and then burning to DVD.
8) I do have a HD ready LCD but this is not in the main viewing room
since I still prefer the picture on CRT. However, I have seen some HD
output from a digicam on the LCD and was very impressed. Hence, I
would not rule out an HD solution of some sort.

point 2) above means I need to keep satellite and cannot rely solely
on freeview, I believe. Similary, AIUI , if I did get Sky+ I would not
be able to achieve this anyway - although suspect I could continue
recording the output to a stand alone recorder of some type. I also
believe freesat does not allow viewing/recording of other ITV
regions...is this the case?

The much delayed freesat service , for which AIUI, there are no PVRs
available yet , seems to be thought of quite highly primarily for its
EPG. How much better is this than, say, the Topfield 5510 PVR which I
have been looking at? Would this machine do all I want? If so, how
good is the EPG? The manual makes no mention of 'series link' type
programming for example.

I know I have some fairly specific requirements here and have rambled
on quite a lot (sorry!) but would really appreciate any feedback.

TIA
 


Please reply to group - email address is not monitored
Ian

On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 14:59:46 +0100, Ian  wrote:

I think you are probably going to have to compromise ...

First of all, I've summarised some the options you mention into a
table at the end of this doc (it also has a section PVRs, p6, though I
think most of that will not be news to you):
	http://tinyurl.com/5r73m4
... standing in for ...
http://www.cemh.eclipse.co.uk/JavaJive/AudioVisualTV/TVInTheUK/TVInTheUK.html

Secondly, I've also done pages covering Panasonic DVD-R Recorders
which may, or may not, help with your problem or otherwise be of
interest:
	http://tinyurl.com/6hhv5o
... standing in for ...
http://www.cemh.eclipse.co.uk/JavaJive/PanasonicDMRE100H/PanasonicDMRE100H.html

> My current set up is a Sky (non-subscription) box with viewing card
> and a Panasonic freeview DVD recorder.
> The latter has recently started having some 'freezing' type problems ,
> the EPG sometimes does not update and the DVD open/close button only
> responds to the  request to close infrequently! (I have already tried
> total reboot/rescan which seems to fix some of the problems for a few
> days or so before it needs doing again. So.....am thinking of having a
> change.)

Do disk errors like u99 ever seem to be part of this?  Panasonic
DVD-Rs have a habit of freezing in response to disk errors, either
with the internal hard disk or with a DVD-R(AM).

> My thoughts at the moment are....
> 1) I would like to move away from the recording restriction imposed by
> DVD size limit.
> 2) I regularly record from other ITV regions (by taking output from
> Sky box to DVD recorder) and whilst this procedure is not particularly
> easy to initiate I can live with it

So you need FTA/Freesat rather than Freeview

> 3) I sometimes record radio (typically BBC regional output from areas
> other than where I live) to cassette (for use in the car) by taking
> output from Sky box to hi-fi.

Ditto

> 4) I would like to keep access to BBC interactive services. I had a
> Technomate standalone sat receiver that had no access to this service.

Freesat, not FTA

> 5) I frequently record one channel and watch another simultaneously -
> using freeview tuner in DVD to record and then watch on Sky

Could be difficult ...

> 6) I have no real desire to subscribe to any supplier (in practice
> this means Sky since we are in rural area with no cable and poor
> broadband) but would not rule it out

Mmmmm ...

> 7) I occasionally archive DVD recordings - typically by copying from
> the RAM DVD to PC and then burning to DVD.

> 8) I do have a HD ready LCD but this is not in the main viewing room
> since I still prefer the picture on CRT. However, I have seen some HD
> output from a digicam on the LCD and was very impressed. Hence, I
> would not rule out an HD solution of some sort.

Although it sticks in my throat to say it, I think your best bet might
be to think in terms of Sky+, but:
1)	You can't get that via FreesatFromSky, so you'd either have to
subscribe for a while to get it installed for free, and then let your
subscription drop after the minimum period, or, if you're DIY savvy,
get a 2nd hand Sky+ box from somewhere like eBay;
2)	If the latter, you would need to install it yourself  -  like any
satellite twin tuner PVR, it needs a twin LNB, in this case one
suitable for a Sky dish (that is a 'wide angle' one for the wider than
tall dish rather than a circular one for the round and taller than
wide dishes), and each output requires it's own downlead, so you'd
have to run another cable from the dish alongside the current one.

Alternatively, sit on your hands until a decent Freesat PVR comes out.

> point 2) above means I need to keep satellite and cannot rely solely
> on freeview, I believe. Similary, AIUI , if I did get Sky+ I would not
> be able to achieve this anyway

AIUI, with Sky+, you should be able to record one channel while
watching another, because it has twin tuners attached via twin cables
to a twin LNB.  What you may have difficulty with is archiving
anything off it without an intermediate step of turning it back into
analogue and recording the TV output, which will degrade the recording
a bit, while some FTA, as opposed to Freesat, PVRs will let you
transfer files directly to your PC for authoring, either via USB, or
via ethernet.

> although suspect I could continue
> recording the output to a stand alone recorder of some type. I also
> believe freesat does not allow viewing/recording of other ITV
> regions...is this the case?

Not sure about that, I'm using FTA, so I can just watch what ever
region I want.
 
> The much delayed freesat service , for which AIUI, there are no PVRs
> available yet , seems to be thought of quite highly primarily for its
> EPG. How much better is this than, say, the Topfield 5510 PVR which I
> have been looking at? Would this machine do all I want? If so, how
> good is the EPG? The manual makes no mention of 'series link' type
> programming for example.

Can't comment.

HTHs

Grumble grumble with all the channels around do you all realise that as far 
as I'm aware, there is no high street available box or tv, that can speak 
the epg? Thus although us blind folk can get AD when the powers that be put 
it out, we cannot actually tell when its on unless we use a computer with 
screenreader to get the data off the net!

Brian

-- 
Brian Gaff - briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Java Jive"  wrote in message 
news:8373b41to4ruuig35i8aq42t163u1p0brq@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 14:59:46 +0100, Ian  wrote:
>
> I think you are probably going to have to compromise ...
>
> First of all, I've summarised some the options you mention into a
> table at the end of this doc (it also has a section PVRs, p6, though I
> think most of that will not be news to you):
> http://tinyurl.com/5r73m4
> ... standing in for ...
> http://www.cemh.eclipse.co.uk/JavaJive/AudioVisualTV/TVInTheUK/TVInTheUK.html
>
> Secondly, I've also done pages covering Panasonic DVD-R Recorders
> which may, or may not, help with your problem or otherwise be of
> interest:
> http://tinyurl.com/6hhv5o
> ... standing in for ...
> http://www.cemh.eclipse.co.uk/JavaJive/PanasonicDMRE100H/PanasonicDMRE100H.html
>
>> My current set up is a Sky (non-subscription) box with viewing card
>> and a Panasonic freeview DVD recorder.
>> The latter has recently started having some 'freezing' type problems ,
>> the EPG sometimes does not update and the DVD open/close button only
>> responds to the  request to close infrequently! (I have already tried
>> total reboot/rescan which seems to fix some of the problems for a few
>> days or so before it needs doing again. So.....am thinking of having a
>> change.)
>
> Do disk errors like u99 ever seem to be part of this?  Panasonic
> DVD-Rs have a habit of freezing in response to disk errors, either
> with the internal hard disk or with a DVD-R(AM).
>
>> My thoughts at the moment are....
>> 1) I would like to move away from the recording restriction imposed by
>> DVD size limit.
>> 2) I regularly record from other ITV regions (by taking output from
>> Sky box to DVD recorder) and whilst this procedure is not particularly
>> easy to initiate I can live with it
>
> So you need FTA/Freesat rather than Freeview
>
>> 3) I sometimes record radio (typically BBC regional output from areas
>> other than where I live) to cassette (for use in the car) by taking
>> output from Sky box to hi-fi.
>
> Ditto
>
>> 4) I would like to keep access to BBC interactive services. I had a
>> Technomate standalone sat receiver that had no access to this service.
>
> Freesat, not FTA
>
>> 5) I frequently record one channel and watch another simultaneously -
>> using freeview tuner in DVD to record and then watch on Sky
>
> Could be difficult ...
>
>> 6) I have no real desire to subscribe to any supplier (in practice
>> this means Sky since we are in rural area with no cable and poor
>> broadband) but would not rule it out
>
> Mmmmm ...
>
>> 7) I occasionally archive DVD recordings - typically by copying from
>> the RAM DVD to PC and then burning to DVD.
>
>> 8) I do have a HD ready LCD but this is not in the main viewing room
>> since I still prefer the picture on CRT. However, I have seen some HD
>> output from a digicam on the LCD and was very impressed. Hence, I
>> would not rule out an HD solution of some sort.
>
> Although it sticks in my throat to say it, I think your best bet might
> be to think in terms of Sky+, but:
> 1) You can't get that via FreesatFromSky, so you'd either have to
> subscribe for a while to get it installed for free, and then let your
> subscription drop after the minimum period, or, if you're DIY savvy,
> get a 2nd hand Sky+ box from somewhere like eBay;
> 2) If the latter, you would need to install it yourself  -  like any
> satellite twin tuner PVR, it needs a twin LNB, in this case one
> suitable for a Sky dish (that is a 'wide angle' one for the wider than
> tall dish rather than a circular one for the round and taller than
> wide dishes), and each output requires it's own downlead, so you'd
> have to run another cable from the dish alongside the current one.
>
> Alternatively, sit on your hands until a decent Freesat PVR comes out.
>
>> point 2) above means I need to keep satellite and cannot rely solely
>> on freeview, I believe. Similary, AIUI , if I did get Sky+ I would not
>> be able to achieve this anyway
>
> AIUI, with Sky+, you should be able to record one channel while
> watching another, because it has twin tuners attached via twin cables
> to a twin LNB.  What you may have difficulty with is archiving
> anything off it without an intermediate step of turning it back into
> analogue and recording the TV output, which will degrade the recording
> a bit, while some FTA, as opposed to Freesat, PVRs will let you
> transfer files directly to your PC for authoring, either via USB, or
> via ethernet.
>
>> although suspect I could continue
>> recording the output to a stand alone recorder of some type. I also
>> believe freesat does not allow viewing/recording of other ITV
>> regions...is this the case?
>
> Not sure about that, I'm using FTA, so I can just watch what ever
> region I want.
>
>> The much delayed freesat service , for which AIUI, there are no PVRs
>> available yet , seems to be thought of quite highly primarily for its
>> EPG. How much better is this than, say, the Topfield 5510 PVR which I
>> have been looking at? Would this machine do all I want? If so, how
>> good is the EPG? The manual makes no mention of 'series link' type
>> programming for example.
>
> Can't comment.
>
> HTHs

On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 19:12:48 +0100, Java Jive  wrote:

Thank you for your time and assistance
>
>I think you are probably going to have to compromise ...

Thought I might!

>First of all, I've summarised some the options you mention into a
>table at the end of this doc (it also has a section PVRs, p6, though I
>think most of that will not be news to you):
>	http://tinyurl.com/5r73m4
>... standing in for ...
>http://www.cemh.eclipse.co.uk/JavaJive/AudioVisualTV/TVInTheUK/TVInTheUK.html
>
Very informative, now bookmarked, thanks

>Secondly, I've also done pages covering Panasonic DVD-R Recorders
>which may, or may not, help with your problem or otherwise be of
>interest:
>	http://tinyurl.com/6hhv5o
>... standing in for ...
>http://www.cemh.eclipse.co.uk/JavaJive/PanasonicDMRE100H/PanasonicDMRE100H.html
>


>Do disk errors like u99 ever seem to be part of this?  Panasonic
>DVD-Rs have a habit of freezing in response to disk errors, either
>with the internal hard disk or with a DVD-R(AM).
>
No

>> My thoughts at the moment are....
>> 1) I would like to move away from the recording restriction imposed by
>> DVD size limit.
>> 2) I regularly record from other ITV regions (by taking output from
>> Sky box to DVD recorder) and whilst this procedure is not particularly
>> easy to initiate I can live with it
>
>So you need FTA/Freesat rather than Freeview
>
Agreed
>> 3) I sometimes record radio (typically BBC regional output from areas
>> other than where I live) to cassette (for use in the car) by taking
>> output from Sky box to hi-fi.
>
>Ditto
>
Agreed
>> 4) I would like to keep access to BBC interactive services. I had a
>> Technomate standalone sat receiver that had no access to this service.
>
>Freesat, not FTA
>
Ahhh! bu**er. Not too surprised, but why is this...a non-standard
format again I suppose?

>> 5) I frequently record one channel and watch another simultaneously -
>> using freeview tuner in DVD to record and then watch on Sky
>
>Could be difficult ...
>
Maybe I wasn't very clear here...I want to be able to watch one
channel and record another simultaneously. I thought most twin tuner
machines would do this? My current restriction is that I can only
record on the DVD recorder from freeview (inbuilt tuner) whilst
watching on the other tuner, which happens to be Sky.

>> 6) I have no real desire to subscribe to any supplier (in practice
>> this means Sky since we are in rural area with no cable and poor
>> broadband) but would not rule it out
>
>Mmmmm ...
>
Mmmmm indeed ;)

>Although it sticks in my throat to say it, I think your best bet might
>be to think in terms of Sky+, but:
>1)	You can't get that via FreesatFromSky, so you'd either have to
>subscribe for a while to get it installed for free, and then let your
>subscription drop after the minimum period, or, if you're DIY savvy,
>get a 2nd hand Sky+ box from somewhere like eBay;
but, I thought Sky+ would only work with an active subscription in any
event???
>2)	If the latter, you would need to install it yourself  -  like any
>satellite twin tuner PVR, it needs a twin LNB, in this case one
>suitable for a Sky dish (that is a 'wide angle' one for the wider than
>tall dish rather than a circular one for the round and taller than
>wide dishes), and each output requires it's own downlead, so you'd
>have to run another cable from the dish alongside the current one.
>
I don't think that would  be a problem. Current self installed dish is
60cm round with single LNB. I think standard twin LNB will feed
Sky+box will it not?

>Alternatively, sit on your hands until a decent Freesat PVR comes out.
>
but then might not be able to get/record other ITV regions???

>AIUI, with Sky+, you should be able to record one channel while
>watching another, because it has twin tuners attached via twin cables
>to a twin LNB.  What you may have difficulty with is archiving
>anything off it without an intermediate step of turning it back into
>analogue and recording the TV output, which will degrade the recording
>a bit, while some FTA, as opposed to Freesat, PVRs will let you
>transfer files directly to your PC for authoring, either via USB, or
>via ethernet.

So, a twin tuner FTA PVR, I think, would do all I want EXCEPT allow
access to BBC-i.....(Oh no, I'd lose c5 as well, wouldn't I?) and some
would allow download to PC for archiving. Do you have an example of
one that I might be able to review the details of, please? 

Actually, losing c5 and BBC-i would probably not go down very well
with other 'alf. 

I suppose I could just replace the Panasonic with a twin tuner
Freeview PVR/DVD and keep the present Sky box for BBC-i and C5.  
I presume such a machine would record output from Sky for the regional
ITV and will allow archiving by some means. Oh, its not simple is it!

>
>HTHs

Yes, very much , thanks again
Please reply to group - email address is not monitored
Ian

On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 11:28:42 +0100, Ian  wrote:
>
> >Do disk errors like u99 ever seem to be part of this?  Panasonic
> >DVD-Rs have a habit of freezing in response to disk errors, either
> >with the internal hard disk or with a DVD-R(AM).
> >
> No

Then I'm not sure I can help there!
 
> >> 4) I would like to keep access to BBC interactive services. I had a
> >> Technomate standalone sat receiver that had no access to this service.
> >
> >Freesat, not FTA
> >
> Ahhh! bu**er. Not too surprised, but why is this...a non-standard
> format again I suppose?

Yup!  You need either Freesat, FreesatFromSky, or Sky

> Maybe I wasn't very clear here...I want to be able to watch one
> channel and record another simultaneously. I thought most twin tuner
> machines would do this?

Yes, but AFAIAA there still aren't any Freesat ones available yet, so
given your requirements had just ruled out FTA, that leaves Sky+, but
you can't get that on FreeSatFromSky, except see below ...

> but, I thought Sky+ would only work with an active subscription in any
> event???

That's what I originally thought, and while researching something else
I've just discovered others who seem to agree ...
	http://tinyurl.com/5r9qjo
... standing in for ...
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=23663887&postcount=8
... (and see posts 18 &, in response to a later point, 20 in the same
thread) but others here such as Mark Carver, although he was primarily
discussing HD, have given a different impression ...
	http://tinyurl.com/5dpfz2
... standing in for ...
http://groups.google.com/group/uk.tech.digital-tv/tree/browse_frm/thread/2cd982b2a3d81ec9/0a1867c79f17c746?rnum=11&_done=%2Fgroup%2Fuk.tech.digital-tv%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fthread%2F2cd982b2a3d81ec9%2Fbcdeb12dc6569d76%3Flnk%3Dst%26q%3D%26#doc_7f3ce9b64a393301

Mark or A N Other, can someone please clarify whether or not the
recording/pvr functions on a Sky+ box will work without restriction
and without extra payment with only a Freeview card inserted?

> I don't think that would  be a problem. Current self installed dish is
> 60cm round with single LNB. I think standard twin LNB will feed
> Sky+box will it not?

Yes, you need a standard circular field-of-view LNB for a round or
offset (taller than round) dish, but a special 'wide angle' one for
the wider than tall Sky dishes.  I was incorrectly assuming you had
the latter rather then the former.

> >Alternatively, sit on your hands until a decent Freesat PVR comes out.
> >
> but then might not be able to get/record other ITV regions???

Can't answer for that.  ISTR there have been discussions on this here
recently, but I rather ignored them as I wasn't affected.  Perhaps
someone else will clarify, or try searching the group in Google
 
> So, a twin tuner FTA PVR, I think, would do all I want EXCEPT allow
> access to BBC-i.....(Oh no, I'd lose c5 as well, wouldn't I?) and some
> would allow download to PC for archiving. Do you have an example of
> one that I might be able to review the details of, please? 

Well, I'm still using a rather old model of Dreambox, but it's not a
twin tuner, and it's not for the technologically faint-hearted. I can
watch and record at the same time because I also have a Freeview Pace
Twin. There's a list of Twin Tuner HiDef PVRs as of May listed in post
#20 of the DigitalSpy thread linked above, but note that although the
Dreambox at that price is supplied without Hard Disk, if it's like
mine, it'll be designed to take one and there'll be nothing to stop
you putting one in yourself.

> Actually, losing c5 and BBC-i would probably not go down very well
> with other 'alf. 

You're best bet might be Sky+ in that case, if Mark or others'll
confirm that definitely it will work.

> I suppose I could just replace the Panasonic with a twin tuner
> Freeview PVR/DVD and keep the present Sky box for BBC-i and C5.  
> I presume such a machine would record output from Sky for the regional
> ITV and will allow archiving by some means. Oh, its not simple is it!

Note an important different between PVRs and DVD-Recorders that is
mentioned somewhere in my doc, or was it on the ChooseTV page, perhaps
both, but anyway perhaps deserves more prominence than given.

Most PVRs record the digital stream directly off air to hard disk, and
so can't record analogue from an external source.   This has
advantages of simplicity and maintaining the best quality, but the
obvious big disadvantage.  My Pace Twin is like that.

Most DVD-Rs digitise and record the analogue signal, so they can
record anything, but there is an inherent recoding and consequent loss
of some quality.  That's how my Panasonic DVD-R works  -  it's an
older model with analogue tuners, so it has to work like that.  I'm
not sure whether that's how later models with digital tuners, such as
yours, work, or whether they're intelligent enough to get the best of
both worlds by recording the digital stream directly from the tuner
but also as before can digitise analogue signals from input sockets to
record them.  I would imagine the former, as the latter might incur
extra expense, but in any case it might be worth trying to find out,
as it might inform a decision as to whether it's worth trying to get
it repaired.

HTHs

Java Jive wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 11:28:42 +0100, Ian  wrote:
Sky, except see below ...
> 
>> but, I thought Sky+ would only work with an active subscription in any
>> event???
> 
> That's what I originally thought, and while researching something else
> I've just discovered others who seem to agree ...
> 	http://tinyurl.com/5r9qjo
> ... standing in for ...
> http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=23663887&postcount=8
> ... (and see posts 18 &, in response to a later point, 20 in the same
> thread) but others here such as Mark Carver, although he was primarily
> discussing HD, have given a different impression ...
> 	http://tinyurl.com/5dpfz2
> ... standing in for ...
> http://groups.google.com/group/uk.tech.digital-tv/tree/browse_frm/thread/2cd982b2a3d81ec9/0a1867c79f17c746?rnum=11&_done=%2Fgroup%2Fuk.tech.digital-tv%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fthread%2F2cd982b2a3d81ec9%2Fbcdeb12dc6569d76%3Flnk%3Dst%26q%3D%26#doc_7f3ce9b64a393301
> 
> Mark or A N Other, can someone please clarify whether or not the
> recording/pvr functions on a Sky+ box will work without restriction
> and without extra payment with only a Freeview card inserted?

To clarify, I said that a Sky+ HD box, will give you BBC HD and Luxe HD 
(without any card inserted) and C4 HD with an FTV card inserted. In other 
words you need no form of subscription to view those three HD channels on a 
Sky+ HD box. Sky do not supply a non PVR version of an HD box.

For the Sky+ recording functions to work, you must have a valid Sky card 
inserted, with some form of subscription.

Without a card, or with just an FTV card, a Sky+ box (SD or HD) operates as a 
bog standard receiver, (albeit the HD one with FTV/FTA HD reception).

-- 
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

Bummer!  Thanks for the clarification, Mark!

On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 17:46:16 +0100, Mark Carver
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
> Java Jive wrote:
> > 
> > Mark or A N Other, can someone please clarify whether or not the
> > recording/pvr functions on a Sky+ box will work without restriction
> > and without extra payment with only a Freeview card inserted?
> 
> For the Sky+ recording functions to work, you must have a valid Sky card 
> inserted, with some form of subscription.
> 
> Without a card, or with just an FTV card, a Sky+ box (SD or HD) operates as a 
> bog standard receiver, (albeit the HD one with FTV/FTA HD reception).

On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 17:51:06 +0100, Java Jive  wrote:

>Bummer!  Thanks for the clarification, Mark!
>
>On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 17:46:16 +0100, Mark Carver
><mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> Java Jive wrote:
>> > 
>> > Mark or A N Other, can someone please clarify whether or not the
>> > recording/pvr functions on a Sky+ box will work without restriction
>> > and without extra payment with only a Freeview card inserted?
>> 
>> For the Sky+ recording functions to work, you must have a valid Sky card 
>> inserted, with some form of subscription.
>> 
>> Without a card, or with just an FTV card, a Sky+ box (SD or HD) operates as a 
>> bog standard receiver, (albeit the HD one with FTV/FTA HD reception).

Just when we thought we had a chance to score over Sky!!

Never mind...thanks for your help again, all.

I hope the Panasonic lasts until some freesat PVR's are available then
I can try and find out which of the functions I want they can do and
make an informed decision between Sky+ and Freesat at that point.
Please reply to group - email address is not monitored
Ian

In message <mOjsk.47577$E41.12655@text.news.virginmedia.com>, Brian Gaff 
 writes
>Grumble grumble with all the channels around do you all realise that as far
>as I'm aware, there is no high street available box or tv, that can speak
>the epg? Thus although us blind folk can get AD when the powers that be put
>it out, we cannot actually tell when its on unless we use a computer with
>screenreader to get the data off the net!
>

A lot of the time Brian there is nothing there - nothing has been 
inputted and unless it went on to speak the whole of the information 
you'd not find out what was on as they frequently abbreviate the title 
and continue it in the information.

My biggest amazement is that with so many folk likely to look at the EPG 
there is so little care put into it - the English is often appalling - 
if it says anything that is.

Have you tried
<http://www.radiotimes.com/ListingsServlet?event=13&broadcastType=1&jspGr
idLocation=/jsp/tv_listings_grid.jsp&jspListLocation=/jsp/tv_listings_sin
gle.jsp&jspError=/jsp/error.jsp&searchDate=27/08/2008&searchTime=18:00>
and the speaking voice that comes with your computer, of course you have 
but someone will be along soon with the answer.



-- 
PK
Remove the xtra y from my name in the email address if replying