I want to put a dish on my chimney, but low down so it's mostly hidden
from below by a section of flat roof.  Something like this:

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk268/farry6/mydish.jpg

For the dish, I'd want one that's wider than it's high for extra
concealment.  The smallest dish that'd get a reliable signal in the
Midlands.  And not too expensive.  Where could I order one of those from?

I want the fixing to the chimney to be on the side of the chimney as
shown rather than on the front, otherwise it would intrude onto my
neighbour's side of the semi-detached.  I've seen dishes around that have
been mounted with a tube bent through a smoothed right-angle, so that's
what I've shown as a way to mount the disk low down.  Is that the best
way to do it?  Would that mean that I'd need to order extra mounting kit?
Where from?

I'd want FTA rather than Sky, but I might sell the house in the near
future, so I'd want it "Sky enabled", which I understand means that it
needs a 2-output LNB. Correct?

Any recommendations for an SD FTA receiver?  I recall somebody saying
that a Forte Star box was better quality for SD than any of the current
crop of Freesat boxes.  I'm not retiring my Humax DTT PVR anytime soon,
so I don't want to record from satellite, so as for the Freesat EPG, I
can take it or leave it.

-- 
Dave Farrance

Dave Farrance wrote:
> I want to put a dish on my chimney, but low down so it's mostly hidden
> from below by a section of flat roof.  Something like this:
> 
> http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk268/farry6/mydish.jpg
> 
> For the dish, I'd want one that's wider than it's high for extra
> concealment.  The smallest dish that'd get a reliable signal in the
> Midlands.  And not too expensive.  Where could I order one of those from?

CPC is a good starting point.

[snip]

> I'd want FTA rather than Sky, but I might sell the house in the near
> future, so I'd want it "Sky enabled", which I understand means that it
> needs a 2-output LNB. Correct?

A 2 output (Dual) LNB is required for a twin tuner PVR such as a Sky+ or the 
up coming Humax Freesat PVR. I'd fit a Quad (NOT  Quattro BTW) LNB, to give 
the ability to have two other D-Sat boxes elsewhere in the house.
> 
> Any recommendations for an SD FTA receiver? 

Assuming the dish is on 28E, then why not a second hand Sky Digibox from EBay ?
The Panasonic DSB-31 is a good one. Beware that if it has missed too many 
software updates, it's not capable of accepting a Sky viewing card, but that 
won't affect you, as you're only interested in FTA reception.


-- 
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

"Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message 
news:6eefqnF6dq20U1@mid.individual.net...
> Dave Farrance wrote:
>> I want to put a dish on my chimney, but low down so it's mostly hidden
>> from below by a section of flat roof.  Something like this:
>>
>> http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk268/farry6/mydish.jpg
>>
>> For the dish, I'd want one that's wider than it's high for extra
>> concealment.  The smallest dish that'd get a reliable signal in the
>> Midlands.  And not too expensive.  Where could I order one of those from?
>
> CPC is a good starting point.
>
>
eBay can be better, i use msr55 in Hatfield to get my Zone 2 Sky dishes,
he's not far from me and allows collection.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/merchant/msr55
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/power-zone

Unless i have to, i never use less than a 76x60cm Zone 2,
even down here north of London.
A standard 48cm Zone 1 will lose signal too easily in a rain storm.

and for a Tenner more he'll replace the single LNB for a Quad

Steve Terry

"Dave Farrance"  wrote in message 
news:2ov384pqk8d7860irtjgh9hbekffdhn480@4ax.com...
>I want to put a dish on my chimney, but low down so it's mostly hidden
> from below by a section of flat roof.  Something like this:
>
> http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk268/farry6/mydish.jpg

>
> For the dish, I'd want one that's wider than it's high for extra
> concealment.  The smallest dish that'd get a reliable signal in the
> Midlands.  And not too expensive.  Where could I order one of those from?
>
> I want the fixing to the chimney to be on the side of the chimney as
> shown rather than on the front, otherwise it would intrude onto my
> neighbour's side of the semi-detached.  I've seen dishes around that have
> been mounted with a tube bent through a smoothed right-angle, so that's
> what I've shown as a way to mount the disk low down.  Is that the best
> way to do it?  Would that mean that I'd need to order extra mounting kit?
> Where from?
I assume your mock up shows the dish alignment roughly right, and that you 
intend to use 28degE ('Sky' in common parlance). Unless the dish has to look 
more than about 5 degrees to the right of a line parallel with the property 
line a standard Sky minidish will do it, as long as it's the type with a rt 
angle arm. If not you can still do it but you might not get the dish as low 
as you'd like. However, contrary to received wisdom if it's your own house I 
wouldn't worry about the bottom wall bolts being through the flashing. It 
won't cause a leak. And you don't want the LNB closer than 6" to the deck in 
case of snow.

However, the type of minidish that doesn't have a rt angle tube can be used 
to position the dish well to the side of the wall bracket, with either 
handedness, so you could fix to the front face and still have the dish off 
the property line. The type with the rt angle tube puts the dish some way to 
one side as well.

Check the condition of the brickwork first.

>
> I'd want FTA rather than Sky, but I might sell the house in the near
> future, so I'd want it "Sky enabled", which I understand means that it
> needs a 2-output LNB. Correct?
Any satellite installation nowadays should have two feeds to every receiver 
position. Anything else is shortsighted. Use a four universal output LNB 
(four switchable outputs). Forget two output ones. Run the four cables into 
the loft, rather than leaving two outputs of the LNB unterminated. Extend 
the cables as required.
A Skyware four way LNB will fit any current make of minidish, but the LNB is 
heavy for these dishes. They don't seem to break though, in practice.

>
> Any recommendations for an SD FTA receiver?  I recall somebody saying
> that a Forte Star box was better quality for SD than any of the current
> crop of Freesat boxes.  I'm not retiring my Humax DTT PVR anytime soon,
> so I don't want to record from satellite, so as for the Freesat EPG, I
> can take it or leave it.
The Fortec Star FTA (no CAM slots) is as good as any, and very cheap, but 
personally I'd want the Freesat EPG and HD capability, so it would be the 
Humax HD box for me.

Bill

"Steve Terry"  wrote in message 
news:g5t3ot$ets$1@news.albasani.net...
> eBay can be better, i use msr55 in Hatfield to get my Zone 2 Sky dishes,
> he's not far from me and allows collection.
> http://shop.ebay.co.uk/merchant/msr55
> http://stores.ebay.co.uk/power-zone
>
> Unless i have to, i never use less than a 76x60cm Zone 2,
> even down here north of London.
> A standard 48cm Zone 1 will lose signal too easily in a rain storm.
>
> and for a Tenner more he'll replace the single LNB for a Quad

At the moment we're paying £14 for a new minidish with single LNB.

Bill

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 15:20:38 GMT, Dave Farrance
 wrote:

>I want to put a dish on my chimney, but low down so it's mostly hidden
>from below by a section of flat roof.  Something like this:
>
>http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk268/farry6/mydish.jpg
>
Ahh!  The Wimpy chalet style semi.  My parents had the same house as
that.  Ideal for aerial erecting.  Wimpy also put sinks on the
bathroom's outside wall, which my bruv always said not a good idea as
that wall isn't very strong.

Sorry for going off topic.

Marky P.

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 17:20:19 +0100, "Bill Wright"
 wrote:

>
>"Steve Terry"  wrote in message 
>news:g5t3ot$ets$1@news.albasani.net...
>> eBay can be better, i use msr55 in Hatfield to get my Zone 2 Sky dishes,
>> he's not far from me and allows collection.
>> http://shop.ebay.co.uk/merchant/msr55
>> http://stores.ebay.co.uk/power-zone
>>
>> Unless i have to, i never use less than a 76x60cm Zone 2,
>> even down here north of London.
>> A standard 48cm Zone 1 will lose signal too easily in a rain storm.
>>
>> and for a Tenner more he'll replace the single LNB for a Quad
>
>At the moment we're paying £14 for a new minidish with single LNB.
>
>Bill 
>
Mine was £16 with single LNB brand new off ebay (that includes p&p).

Marky P.

"Bill Wright"  wrote in message 
news:yPWdnWnO7KrFiR_VnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@pipex.net...
> "Steve Terry"  wrote in message 
> news:g5t3ot$ets$1@news.albasani.net...
>> eBay can be better, i use msr55 in Hatfield to get my Zone 2 Sky dishes,
>> he's not far from me and allows collection.
>> http://shop.ebay.co.uk/merchant/msr55
>> http://stores.ebay.co.uk/power-zone
>>
>> Unless i have to, i never use less than a 76x60cm Zone 2,
>> even down here north of London.
>> A standard 48cm Zone 1 will lose signal too easily in a rain storm.
>>
>> and for a Tenner more he'll replace the single LNB for a Quad
>
> At the moment we're paying £14 for a new minidish with single LNB.
> Bill
>
That's about what msr55 charges, and 17.95 for a zone 2,
it's worth paying the extra 3 or 4 quid for a zone 2.

Steve Terry

"Marky P"  wrote in message 
news:fc6484ldvuc6hso8108mdncl195c9klom5@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 15:20:38 GMT, Dave Farrance
>  wrote:
>
>>I want to put a dish on my chimney, but low down so it's mostly hidden
>>from below by a section of flat roof.  Something like this:
>>
>>http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk268/farry6/mydish.jpg
>>
> Ahh!  The Wimpy chalet style semi.  My parents had the same house as
> that.  Ideal for aerial erecting.  Wimpy also put sinks on the
> bathroom's outside wall, which my bruv always said not a good idea as
> that wall isn't very strong.
>
> Sorry for going off topic.

Known round here as a 'dormer bungalow'. Many of them were built around here 
in the 1970s Some have horrid little triangular voids at each side of the 
bedrooms -- very claustrophobic. The flat roof is a trap for the unwary 
rigger. Most of them are either leaking or on the point of doing so, so the 
rigger gets the blame for a latent defect. I had to go along once and 
photograph the rotten chipboard in order to prove that the leak was not 
newly caused by me.I'd wondered why the bloke wanted the aerial replacing 
when it was still working. Some people!

Bill

In article ,
   Dave Farrance  wrote:
> I want to put a dish on my chimney, but low down so it's mostly hidden
> from below by a section of flat roof.  Something like this:

> http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk268/farry6/mydish.jpg

> For the dish, I'd want one that's wider than it's high for extra
> concealment.  The smallest dish that'd get a reliable signal in the
> Midlands.  And not too expensive.  Where could I order one of those from?

Well, not initially being too helpful, (but please 
read further below!), offhand, dunno!  :((

You could acquire an old Sky dish - the more recent 
examples seem to an ovalish sort of shape.

If it's hiding it you're after, then one of the new 
'Squish' dishes that look like plastic house bricks, 
might be useful.  Although, despite the hype, these 
never seem to be reported as being as successful as 
the more standard 'circular' types.

You are allowed, not withstanding, to attach two 
dishes to the walls of your property ..one no larger 
than 100cm, with a second dish no larger than 60cm.

That might give you a clue as the useful size of 
the normal dishes used to receive a whole range 
of FTA and encrypted satellite offerings - right 
across the whole range of satellites from the far 
east horizon to the far west.   

> I want the fixing to the chimney to be on the side of the chimney as
> shown rather than on the front, otherwise it would intrude onto my
> neighbour's side of the semi-detached.  I've seen dishes around that have
> been mounted with a tube bent through a smoothed right-angle, so that's
> what I've shown as a way to mount the disk low down.  Is that the best
> way to do it?  Would that mean that I'd need to order extra mounting kit?
> Where from?

Why does the dish need to be fixed to a chimney?

It doesn't have to 'up high'!  The signal has 
already travelled some 46,000 or more miles to 
get to you - (think about it!) - but is also 
coming from 'above' ..not from a land-stuck 
terrestrial aerial transmitting from some miles 
nearer to your side. 

Is the house next door so close that it covers 
your access to the heavens?  Remember, or be 
aware if you're not yet so, that most dishes 
these days are 'offset' ..ie they pick out a 
line far higher 'above' them than they appear to 
be 'looking' at!

For instance, my dish here when receiving Cuban 
(and Ecuadorian) TV from 58W, appears to be 
twistedly staring at the bottom of the garage door.
Conversely, when receiving the usual strong and 
stable signals from the Bear Lake Transponder in 
the far, far east, has sort twisted itself the other 
way and is staring near as damn it at my neighbour-
across-the-streets barbecue... 

My dish - btw, I am an FTA user, (never having been 
with Sky anyway), is just above the kitchen door 
where it is out of the way from any vehicle parked 
in the drive.. but low enough to reach quite easily 
and tweak if ever that be needed.  

Remember, (not many do), hurricane force winds can 
wreak havoc with a high-flying dish.. you would be 
amazed at the shere force the wind can exert on even 
a very small dish ..it's of a significant order of 
magnitude greater than any terrestrial  ariel, thinly 
slicing a gust of wind..

You can also install your dish out of passing sight 
in your garden, or back yard, if you wish.

As said, in the middle of a residential housing 
development, surrounded on all sides - I can still 
get decent reception from Cuba at 58.0W to the east 
of Russia (and a Transponder calling itself 'Bear Lake') 
to the very far east at 57.0E using a motorised dish and 
a LiDL (Comag-Herrons) SL65, with a 14.99gbp LiDL 80cm 
dish kit, complete with all fixings, reasonable quality 
cabling, 'F' plugs and everything - even a simple sat 
finder which worked ..and will still work, if ever needed! 

In fact, the whole installation didn't cost more than 
110.00gbp or so, including everything - and that with 
an 80cm dish.  (You will need at least a 60cm dish to 
receive HD from BBC/ITV's 'Freesat'...


> I'd want FTA rather than Sky, but I might sell the house in the near
> future, so I'd want it "Sky enabled", which I understand means that it
> needs a 2-output LNB. Correct?

Depends on whether or not you are installing a fixed 
dish - like many, if not most - or a fully motorised 
dish assembly which, believe it or not, under an FTA 
STB's USALs programming, can be even easier to install!

To be Sky 'enabled' ..what a downmarket concept!.. 
then you will need to point your dish at Astra 2D, 
currently located at 28.5E.  

For a fixed dish, you will need an at least an LNB 
with a double outlet.  That's the Low Noise Block 
thingy that hangs on the end of the arm coming out 
of your dish.  It collects the microwaves reflecting 
from your dish - and sends the minute signal it 
collects along to your satellite box.

As for FTA and Sky - the difference between the two 
is quite simple.  They both use exactly the same LNBs 
and so so ..it's just that any FTA box is almost 
invariably endowed with a /much/ greater range of 
reception - and usually sensitivity - than the very 
limited Sky boxes - which naturally are only used for 
their single parent provider. 

> Any recommendations for an SD FTA receiver?  

If you can catch one on sale ..usually withing the 
next few weeks.. I'd recommend a Comag-Heron's SL65 
from LiDL ..also known as the Silvercrest SL65.  It's 
price to date has been around 39.95gbp, inclusive of 
an honoured full three year warranty.  

At the price, worth having just as a radio 'box', 
connected to any other main sat box that you might 
acquire, if nothing else!  

..and it will itself get at everything up there at 
28.5E, only limited by your dish size if smaller than 
80cm - useful when your Freesat box only has a limited 
number of channel slots in which to store the more than 
200 Freesat channels which the BBC/ITV consortium intend 
to list on their EPG by this Christmas, Dec 2008. 

> I recall somebody saying
> that a Forte Star box was better quality for SD than any of the current
> crop of Freesat boxes.  I'm not retiring my Humax DTT PVR anytime soon,
> so I don't want to record from satellite, so as for the Freesat EPG, I
> can take it or leave it.

The Forte Star box ..is that also the 'Passion'.. (and 
only from a friend's very recent and ongoing experience), 
does seem to provide excellent HD piccies - as well as 
the full Freesat experience.  

Although, to be honest, it can only be updated by either 
a Microsoft PC link, or from a USB stick - and that has 
already cost him around three weeks or more of downtime 
when the 'upgrade' from Fortec's site failed miserably 
and left him without any reception at all.  Fixed after 
much to-ing and fro-ing from Maplins, a round journey 
of more than 50 miles - each time.

You might also care to consider the Humax HD box - it 
has a useful write up in July's "What Satellite and 
Digital TV", (better known around as 'WotSat'). 

"What Satellite and Digital TV" - a monthly publication 
well worth subscribing to - as it has much to offer, 
including all the providers, channels and offerings 
'up there', on the myriad of satellites, right across 
the horizon from the far west atlantic to the far 
eastern and frozen Baring Straits on t'other side!

It has articles on all sorts of things, ranging from 
equipment, FTA stuff - a smattering of Sky 'things' - 
even expert articles from 'real' experts such as one, 
Bill Wright - who hangs around this group and who's 
name you will already know!  I think he's even got 
another article appearing in next weeks (August) 'WotSat'.. 

As for the new crop of 'Freesat' (BBC/ITV) boxes, 
there's not a lot of point in going for any Freesat SD 
boxes, as there are far, far better out in the market. 
Some at even cheaper prices.. such as LiDL's SL65, or the 
Technomates, Manhattans, et al.  These are usually well 
set up to receive /all/ the FTA signals from all the 
providers ..and from all the satellites up there, if 
you wish.. :))

Remember that, by Christmas, we may well be onto the 
second generation of Freesat enabled PVRs, the first 
scheduled to appear sometime in the next few weeks...

As for HD or SD ..well, there's really only the one 
BBC HD channel at the moment ..with ITV gradually 
coming on song - oh, and an interesting channel by the 
name of 'Luxe TV' or somesuch  

I guess HD provision will increase at a reasonable rate 
..but overall ..particularly if using a motorised assembly 
(can be done for around 60.00gbp tops with a USALs enabled 
box ..most if not all generic FTA boxes now are), you may 
find that SD television, even at the 'Acadamy' ratio of 
4:3, will still be around for many years yet...

Can't, offhand, think of anything else just at the moment, 
so you are welcome to the thoughts, if they are of any 
use to you or anyone else..

..just to say that I have travelled the 'route'. from 
start to wherever I'm presently 'at' ..and I can guarantee 
that it makes for an ..um.. 'interesting' occupation..!!

hh.. :))

Bill ZFC
e&oe... ;'))

-- 
Adoption  InterLink  UK with  -=-         http://www.billsimpson.com/
Domain Host Orpheus Internet  -=-  http://www.orpheusinternet.co.uk/

Marky P wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 15:20:38 GMT, Dave Farrance
>  wrote:
> 
>> I want to put a dish on my chimney, but low down so it's mostly hidden
>>from below by a section of flat roof.  Something like this:
>> http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk268/farry6/mydish.jpg
>>
> Ahh!  The Wimpy chalet style semi.  My parents had the same house as
> that.  Ideal for aerial erecting.  Wimpy also put sinks on the
> bathroom's outside wall, which my bruv always said not a good idea as
> that wall isn't very strong.
> 
> Sorry for going off topic.

We used to have a house on one of those estates only we were sensible 
enough to buy the normal, non chalet, version - although these were only 
slightly better built and that's not saying much. When it came to 
selling it was much easier and fetched more money than the equivalent 
chalet style. They are truly hideous and always leaking.

We now live in an ex-council house. Hurrican proof, earthquake proof and 
would probably withstand a direct hit from a thermo-neuclear explosion.

Marky P wrote:

> Wimpy also put sinks on the
> bathroom's outside wall, which my bruv always said not a good idea as
> that wall isn't very strong.

Presumably also no good for mounting a 28inch CRT telly on ?


-- 
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 15:20:38 GMT, Dave Farrance
 wrote:

>I want to put a dish on my chimney, but low down so it's mostly hidden
>from below by a section of flat roof.  Something like this:
>
>http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk268/farry6/mydish.jpg
>

What do the neighbours think about you having a personal factory
Whistle attached to the top of your chimney?

G.Harman

Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>CPC is a good starting point.

Thanks. The CPC TRIAX 124225 is the sort of thing that I want, I guess,
although that's not in stock, and I can't make head nor tail of the
fixings.

http://cpc.farnell.com/dishes

>A 2 output (Dual) LNB is required for a twin tuner PVR such as a Sky+ or the 
>up coming Humax Freesat PVR. I'd fit a Quad (NOT  Quattro BTW) LNB, to give 
>the ability to have two other D-Sat boxes elsewhere in the house.

I don't want to spend more than necessary, and I don't expect to feed
satellite to other rooms. Freeview maybe, but not satellite.

>Assuming the dish is on 28E, then why not a second hand Sky Digibox from EBay ?
>The Panasonic DSB-31 is a good one. Beware that if it has missed too many 
>software updates, it's not capable of accepting a Sky viewing card, but that 
>won't affect you, as you're only interested in FTA reception.

I see two.  It looks very big.  Is it?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Panasonic-TU-DSB-31Sky-Digibox-and-remote-control_W0QQitemZ330253415131QQcmdZViewItem

-- 
Dave Farrance

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 19:54:11 +0100, Silk  wrote:

>Marky P wrote:
>> On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 15:20:38 GMT, Dave Farrance
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> I want to put a dish on my chimney, but low down so it's mostly hidden
>>>from below by a section of flat roof.  Something like this:
>>> http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk268/farry6/mydish.jpg
>>>
>> Ahh!  The Wimpy chalet style semi.  My parents had the same house as
>> that.  Ideal for aerial erecting.  Wimpy also put sinks on the
>> bathroom's outside wall, which my bruv always said not a good idea as
>> that wall isn't very strong.
>> 
>> Sorry for going off topic.
>
>We used to have a house on one of those estates only we were sensible 
>enough to buy the normal, non chalet, version - although these were only 
>slightly better built and that's not saying much. When it came to 
>selling it was much easier and fetched more money than the equivalent 
>chalet style. They are truly hideous and always leaking.
>
>We now live in an ex-council house. Hurrican proof, earthquake proof and 
>would probably withstand a direct hit from a thermo-neuclear explosion.

Must admit, we didn't have any leakage problems.  My dad wouldn't pay
the extra for the 'normal' houses across the road.  When I was a kid I
had the box room at the front with that sloping roof and a big storage
bit behind the bed that disguised the stairwell.  I was so pleased
when my brother moved out so I could have his room.

Marky P.

"Steve Terry"  wrote:

>eBay can be better, i use msr55 in Hatfield to get my Zone 2 Sky dishes,
>he's not far from me and allows collection.
>http://shop.ebay.co.uk/merchant/msr55
>http://stores.ebay.co.uk/power-zone
>
>Unless i have to, i never use less than a 76x60cm Zone 2,
>even down here north of London.
>A standard 48cm Zone 1 will lose signal too easily in a rain storm.

I'm in Cheltenham, so it's actually not much further north than London.
I've looked up the zones thing, and I think I might prefer to risk a zone
1 dish.  Or maybe a dish that's more like half way between the two, if
such things exist.

>and for a Tenner more he'll replace the single LNB for a Quad

OK. I've looked at the fixing kit offered by the above seller, and it
looks suspiciously cheap.  I wonder at the quality of the cable.

-- 
Dave Farrance

"Bill Wright"  wrote:

>I assume your mock up shows the dish alignment roughly right, and that you 
>intend to use 28degE ('Sky' in common parlance). Unless the dish has to look 
>more than about 5 degrees to the right of a line parallel with the property 
>line a standard Sky minidish will do it, as long as it's the type with a rt 
>angle arm. If not you can still do it but you might not get the dish as low 
>as you'd like. However, contrary to received wisdom if it's your own house I 
>wouldn't worry about the bottom wall bolts being through the flashing. It 
>won't cause a leak. And you don't want the LNB closer than 6" to the deck in 
>case of snow.

OK, thanks.  The dish will need to point about 15° to the right of the
property line so it's just about correct the way that I've drawn it. That
does mean that the dish would need to pivot to the right on the end of
the tube.  I have seen suitable fixings that would be capable of that on
other houses, but I've no idea where to get them from.

>However, the type of minidish that doesn't have a rt angle tube can be used 
>to position the dish well to the side of the wall bracket, with either 
>handedness, so you could fix to the front face and still have the dish off 
>the property line. The type with the rt angle tube puts the dish some way to 
>one side as well.

OK, but I don't know what the standard fixing is.

>Check the condition of the brickwork first.

It's good.

>Any satellite installation nowadays should have two feeds to every receiver 
>position. Anything else is shortsighted. Use a four universal output LNB 
>(four switchable outputs). Forget two output ones. Run the four cables into 
>the loft, rather than leaving two outputs of the LNB unterminated. Extend 
>the cables as required.
>A Skyware four way LNB will fit any current make of minidish, but the LNB is 
>heavy for these dishes. They don't seem to break though, in practice.

OK.  Everybody says buy a four-way.  They cost more I think, and I won't
be using two Satellite PVRs - not while I'm in the current house, anyway.
And I don't imagine that it's likely that a house buyer would ask about
the LNB, although they might ask if there's a wired up dish.

>The Fortec Star FTA (no CAM slots) is as good as any, and very cheap, but 
>personally I'd want the Freesat EPG and HD capability, so it would be the 
>Humax HD box for me.

My current TV is SD, and I don't intend to change it before moving house,
so SD will do.  And also, I'd rather wait until the Freesat HD PVRs
appear and become bug-free before taking that step.  If the Fortec Star
is OK, I might go for that.  Possibly the Humax Freesat SD.

-- 
Dave Farrance

Marky P  wrote:

>>http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk268/farry6/mydish.jpg
>>
>Ahh!  The Wimpy chalet style semi.  My parents had the same house as
>that.  Ideal for aerial erecting.  Wimpy also put sinks on the
>bathroom's outside wall, which my bruv always said not a good idea as
>that wall isn't very strong.

Yep. 1971, it says on the deeds.  The upstairs has exactly the same floor
area as downstairs so it is chalet "style".  A bit of fakery, really.
Except that the upstairs wall is light, as you say, so I dread to think
what the thermal economy rating will be when I get it.

-- 
Dave Farrance

"Bill Wright"  wrote:

>Known round here as a 'dormer bungalow'. Many of them were built around here 
>in the 1970s Some have horrid little triangular voids at each side of the 
>bedrooms -- very claustrophobic. The flat roof is a trap for the unwary 
>rigger. Most of them are either leaking or on the point of doing so, so the 
>rigger gets the blame for a latent defect. I had to go along once and 
>photograph the rotten chipboard in order to prove that the leak was not 
>newly caused by me.I'd wondered why the bloke wanted the aerial replacing 
>when it was still working. Some people!

Mine's in fairly good order because I had it replaced a few years ago.
One annoyance that I didn't discover until after the roofing company had
disappeared was that they'd added height to the drainage channel so that
the roof now becomes a lake when it rains.

-- 
Dave Farrance

Dave Farrance wrote:

>> Assuming the dish is on 28E, then why not a second hand Sky Digibox from EBay ?
>> The Panasonic DSB-31 is a good one. Beware that if it has missed too many 
>> software updates, it's not capable of accepting a Sky viewing card, but that 
>> won't affect you, as you're only interested in FTA reception.
> 
> I see two.  It looks very big.  Is it?
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Panasonic-TU-DSB-31Sky-Digibox-and-remote-control_W0QQitemZ330253415131QQcmdZViewItem


355 x 250 x 70mm


-- 
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

"Bill (Adopt)"  wrote:

>If it's hiding it you're after, then one of the new 
>'Squish' dishes that look like plastic house bricks, 
>might be useful.  Although, despite the hype, these 
>never seem to be reported as being as successful as 
>the more standard 'circular' types.

Wouldn't work for me because I need to fix to the side of the chimney
which is at right angles to the direction that the dish will point.  And
I'm not so fussed about hiding it that I'd put it in the garden.

>Why does the dish need to be fixed to a chimney?

I'd be mostly hidden by the flat roof.  It'd look a whole lot better than
putting it on the downstairs front wall which would be the only other
alternative.

>Remember, (not many do), hurricane force winds can 
>wreak havoc with a high-flying dish.. you would be 
>amazed at the shere force the wind can exert on even 
>a very small dish ..it's of a significant order of 
>magnitude greater than any terrestrial  ariel, thinly 
>slicing a gust of wind..

I'll make sure that it's well bolted.

>Depends on whether or not you are installing a fixed 
>dish - like many, if not most - or a fully motorised 
>dish assembly which, believe it or not, under an FTA 
>STB's USALs programming, can be even easier to install!

I'm not interested in foreign channels, which I assume would be the
reason for a motorised dish.

>If you can catch one on sale ..usually withing the 
>next few weeks.. I'd recommend a Comag-Heron's SL65 
>from LiDL ..also known as the Silvercrest SL65.  It's 
>price to date has been around 39.95gbp, inclusive of 
>an honoured full three year warranty.

I'll look that up.  

>Can't, offhand, think of anything else just at the moment, 
>so you are welcome to the thoughts, if they are of any 
>use to you or anyone else..

OK, thanks.  I've read everything you wrote, including all the stuff that
I didn't comment on.

-- 
Dave Farrance

Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>Dave Farrance wrote:
>
>> I see two.  It looks very big.  Is it?
>> 
>> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Panasonic-TU-DSB-31Sky-Digibox-and-remote-control_W0QQitemZ330253415131QQcmdZViewItem
>
>355 x 250 x 70mm

Thanks.  Bigger than I'd like I guess.  Though the Fortec Star boxes that
I saw in Maplin were fairly large too, come to think of it.  Not like the
Freesat boxes.

-- 
Dave Farrance

Dave Farrance wrote:
> Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> Dave Farrance wrote:
>>
>>> I see two.  It looks very big.  Is it?
>>>
>>> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Panasonic-TU-DSB-31Sky-Digibox-and-remote-control_W0QQitemZ330253415131QQcmdZViewItem
>> 355 x 250 x 70mm
> 
> Thanks.  Bigger than I'd like I guess.  Though the Fortec Star boxes that
> I saw in Maplin were fairly large too, come to think of it.  Not like the
> Freesat boxes.

Indeed, although the Bush HD Freesat box gets incredibly hot, it could almost 
burn your flesh !



-- 
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

In message <g5td8l$bm6$1@registered.motzarella.org>, Silk 
 writes
>Marky P wrote:
>> On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 15:20:38 GMT, Dave Farrance
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> I want to put a dish on my chimney, but low down so it's mostly 
>>>hidden
>>>from below by a section of flat roof.  Something like this:
>>> http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk268/farry6/mydish.jpg
>>>
>> Ahh!  The Wimpy chalet style semi.  My parents had the same house as
>> that.  Ideal for aerial erecting.  Wimpy also put sinks on the
>> bathroom's outside wall, which my bruv always said not a good idea as
>> that wall isn't very strong.
>>  Sorry for going off topic.
>
>We used to have a house on one of those estates only we were sensible 
>enough to buy the normal, non chalet, version - although these were 
>only slightly better built and that's not saying much. When it came to 
>selling it was much easier and fetched more money than the equivalent 
>chalet style. They are truly hideous and always leaking.
>
>We now live in an ex-council house. Hurrican proof, earthquake proof 
>and would probably withstand a direct hit from a thermo-neuclear 
>explosion.

Considering where Dave lives, that would have been a more sensible 
choice.  :¬)
-- 
Ian

"Dave Farrance"  wrote in message 
news:3dk484tt0iri15nk83s7p1oalophcq14pb@4ax.com...
> OK, thanks.  The dish will need to point about 15° to the right of the
> property line so it's just about correct the way that I've drawn it. That
> does mean that the dish would need to pivot to the right on the end of
> the tube.

No, because the bracket allows the tube to turn back on itself a bit. But I 
think you should fix to the front face anyway.

Bill

"Dave Farrance"  wrote in message 
news:nul4845thdu2b2jmsafvkp49ng0koo85m1@4ax.com...
> Wouldn't work for me because I need to fix to the side of the chimney
> which is at right angles to the direction that the dish will point.

No I don't think so. See previous posts.

Bill

"Bill Wright"  wrote:

>"Dave Farrance" wrote
>> The dish will need to point about 15° to the right of the property line
>> so it's just about correct the way that I've drawn it. That does mean
>> that the dish would need to pivot to the right on the end of the tube.
>
>No, because the bracket allows the tube to turn back on itself a bit. But I 
>think you should fix to the front face anyway.

OK, I can do that.  I've looked again at the right-angle tube fixing on a
dish on another house and I see that the tube projects sideways from the
fixing at the back of the dish.  So this drawing with top and front views
shows what I want:

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk268/farry6/mysatdish.png

-- 
Dave Farrance

Dave Farrance  wrote:

>"Steve Terry"  wrote:
>>
>>Unless i have to, i never use less than a 76x60cm Zone 2,
>>even down here north of London.
>>A standard 48cm Zone 1 will lose signal too easily in a rain storm.
>
>I'm in Cheltenham, so it's actually not much further north than London.
>I've looked up the zones thing, and I think I might prefer to risk a zone
>1 dish.

I've been searching for details about zone 1 dishes, and here's a site
that says that a Sky minidish with an LNB having an oval horn to match
the dish will result in rain dropouts that are rare, but that a universal
LNB fitted via an adaptor to a Sky minidish is likely to be problematic.
Is that a fair assessment? 

http://www.satcure.co.uk/tech/lnb.htm

-- 
Dave Farrance

"Dave Farrance"  wrote in message 
news:g1s584t5njbljhupm8jk1i04qrva939a4p@4ax.com...
> OK, I can do that.  I've looked again at the right-angle tube fixing on a
> dish on another house and I see that the tube projects sideways from the
> fixing at the back of the dish.

That's what I told you at the start. I'm wondering if you missed a post from 
me.

Bill

"Dave Farrance"  wrote in message 
news:l4l684ht3t3ekfdssm50120eensg53ssde@4ax.com...
> Dave Farrance  wrote:
>
>>"Steve Terry"  wrote:
>>>
>>>Unless i have to, i never use less than a 76x60cm Zone 2,
>>>even down here north of London.
>>>A standard 48cm Zone 1 will lose signal too easily in a rain storm.
>>
>>I'm in Cheltenham, so it's actually not much further north than London.
>>I've looked up the zones thing, and I think I might prefer to risk a zone
>>1 dish.
>
> I've been searching for details about zone 1 dishes, and here's a site
> that says that a Sky minidish with an LNB having an oval horn to match
> the dish will result in rain dropouts that are rare, but that a universal
> LNB fitted via an adaptor to a Sky minidish is likely to be problematic.
> Is that a fair assessment?
>
> http://www.satcure.co.uk/tech/lnb.htm

I suppose it might be in theory, but I've never encountered a problem. If 
there was a real problem it would be fairly obvious during installation 
because the BER would be poorer than expected. No doubt the effect described 
exists, but I can only conclude that its effects are slight. I have used the 
same LNB type with mini-dishes and with conventional offset dishes, with no 
big surprises. It's something to bear in mind though, and certainly a factor 
if terrestrial interference is an issue.

In the days of big dishes and mix-n-match LNB, polarisers, etc, the f/d 
ratio (focal length to diameter) of the dish had to be right for the LNB, or 
the results were rubbish.

Bill

"Bill Wright"  wrote:

>"Dave Farrance"  wrote

>> OK, I can do that.  I've looked again at the right-angle tube fixing on a
>> dish on another house and I see that the tube projects sideways from the
>> fixing at the back of the dish.
>
>That's what I told you at the start. I'm wondering if you missed a post from 
>me.

Not if I replied to it.  ;)   When I mentioned a right-angle fixing tube,
I meant the "L" shaped sort, i.e. bent through a right angle, but I
hadn't understood how it connected to the back of the dish until I had a
closer look at one, so I didn't immediately pick up on what you meant by
a right-angle arm.

-- 
Dave Farrance

"Bill Wright"  wrote:

>"Dave Farrance"  wrote 
>> Here's a site that says that a Sky minidish with an LNB having an
>> oval horn to match the dish will result in rain dropouts that are
>> rare, but that a universal LNB fitted via an adaptor to a Sky
>> minidish is likely to be problematic.  Is that a fair assessment?
>> http://www.satcure.co.uk/tech/lnb.htm
>
>I suppose it might be in theory, but I've never encountered a problem. If 
>there was a real problem it would be fairly obvious during installation 
>because the BER would be poorer than expected. No doubt the effect described 
>exists, but I can only conclude that its effects are slight. I have used the 
>same LNB type with mini-dishes and with conventional offset dishes, with no 
>big surprises. It's something to bear in mind though, and certainly a factor 
>if terrestrial interference is an issue.
>
>In the days of big dishes and mix-n-match LNB, polarisers, etc, the f/d 
>ratio (focal length to diameter) of the dish had to be right for the LNB, or 
>the results were rubbish.

OK, thanks.  If it's normally OK even if the LNB is not the minidish oval
type, then I'll go with a zone 1 dish.  For one-off mail-orders, it seems
to be much cheaper to get a dish and LNB bundled, so I'd guess that the
LNB would be the minidish-fit anyway.

-- 
Dave Farrance

In article , Dave Farrance
 scribeth thus
>Dave Farrance  wrote:
>
>>"Steve Terry"  wrote:
>>>
>>>Unless i have to, i never use less than a 76x60cm Zone 2,
>>>even down here north of London.
>>>A standard 48cm Zone 1 will lose signal too easily in a rain storm.
>>
>>I'm in Cheltenham, so it's actually not much further north than London.
>>I've looked up the zones thing, and I think I might prefer to risk a zone
>>1 dish.
>
>I've been searching for details about zone 1 dishes, and here's a site
>that says that a Sky minidish with an LNB having an oval horn to match
>the dish will result in rain dropouts that are rare, but that a universal
>LNB fitted via an adaptor to a Sky minidish is likely to be problematic.
>Is that a fair assessment? 
>
>http://www.satcure.co.uk/tech/lnb.htm
>

I've only seen it a few times over quite some years now. I wouldn't
class it of more of a problem than a bit of co-channel interference when
the weather's fine and the pressures high!..
-- 
Tony Sayer

Ian wrote:

> Considering where Dave lives, that would have been a more sensible 
> choice.  :¬)

Shorter distance to walk to the local drug dealer as well. ;-)

"Dave Farrance"  wrote in message 
news:qin684pid3a2peje2paefi1tsqn50ld03t@4ax.com...
> Not if I replied to it.  ;)   When I mentioned a right-angle fixing tube,
> I meant the "L" shaped sort, i.e. bent through a right angle, but I
> hadn't understood how it connected to the back of the dish until I had a
> closer look at one, so I didn't immediately pick up on what you meant by
> a right-angle arm.

Yes, this was a classic example of how, when you're explaining something 
that's very familiar to, you omit the obvious but essential details. Another 
example of this is when you are directed to an address by someone who's 
lived there for years. Rubbish directions. But when they've only just moved 
in the directions are much better.

Sorry for confusing you.

Bill

"Dave Farrance"  wrote in message 
news:l4l684ht3t3ekfdssm50120eensg53ssde@4ax.com...
> Dave Farrance  wrote:
>
>>"Steve Terry"  wrote:
>>>
>>>Unless i have to, i never use less than a 76x60cm Zone 2,
>>>even down here north of London.
>>>A standard 48cm Zone 1 will lose signal too easily in a rain storm.
>>
>>I'm in Cheltenham, so it's actually not much further north than London.
>>I've looked up the zones thing, and I think I might prefer to risk a zone
>>1 dish.
>
> I've been searching for details about zone 1 dishes, and here's a site
> that says that a Sky minidish with an LNB having an oval horn to match
> the dish will result in rain dropouts that are rare, but that a universal
> LNB fitted via an adaptor to a Sky minidish is likely to be problematic.
> Is that a fair assessment?
> http://www.satcure.co.uk/tech/lnb.htm
> Dave Farrance
>
>
I don't think it makes much difference, you can't beat surface area to get 
gain

Last place i lived was Peacehaven on south coast, no DVB-T there,
so Astra only choice, both my neighbours had standard 48cm zone 1,
with mono LNB, i had a zone 2 with a quad LNB.

When a rain storm came up i would look though my neighbours windows
to see them losing signal long before i ever did.
Unless you are legally limited to use a 48cm zone 1, go for a zone 2

Steve Terry

"Steve Terry"  wrote:

>I don't think it makes much difference, you can't beat surface area to get 
>gain
>
>Last place i lived was Peacehaven on south coast, no DVB-T there,
>so Astra only choice, both my neighbours had standard 48cm zone 1,
>with mono LNB, i had a zone 2 with a quad LNB.
>
>When a rain storm came up i would look though my neighbours windows
>to see them losing signal long before i ever did.
>Unless you are legally limited to use a 48cm zone 1, go for a zone 2

Thanks for your advice.  Steve, that ebay guy that you mentioned, what is
the make of the quad LNB that he attaches to the minidishes?  Is it good?
Is it the sort that needs an adaptor?

-- 
Dave Farrance

"Dave Farrance"  wrote in message
news:9e69841pf6ha0o2uk21pgdbiui0t5hona1@4ax.com...
> "Steve Terry"  wrote:
>
>>I don't think it makes much difference, you can't beat surface area to get
>>gain
>>
>>Last place i lived was Peacehaven on south coast, no DVB-T there,
>>so Astra2 only choice, both my neighbours had standard 48cm zone 1,
>>with mono LNB, i had a zone 2 with a quad LNB.
>>
>>When a rain storm came up i would look though my neighbours windows
>>to see them losing signal long before i ever did.
>>Unless you are legally limited to use a 48cm zone 1, go for a zone 2
>
> Thanks for your advice.  Steve, that ebay guy that you mentioned, what is
> the make of the quad LNB that he attaches to the minidishes?  Is it good?
> Is it the sort that needs an adaptor?
> Dave Farrance
>
>
I don't know what he sells now, but I used to get from him Thomson 13422
quad LNBs, which are nothing special but do the job.

The mono and quad LNBs are a straight swap.

The best thing about him is if you live in the North London, Herts area,
is he allows arraigned collection, Hatfield being just up the A1

Steve Terry