Would this be an unstable set up:

Blake SR18 element group b
Triax 10 element group C/D
10'x2" mast
12" cradle bracket

I've just had a word with my friend about the replacement of his
aerial down in Devon and he thought a higher mast would be a good
idea, due to the flats being built in the line of fire.  But I would
be dubious about using a 10' mast with a 12" bracket.  Changing to an
18" bracket would be loads of hassle (and extra expense) and I don't
think it's worth it.  What d'ya reckon?  Current mast is 6'x2".

Marky P.

Marky P wrote:
|| Would this be an unstable set up:
|| 
|| Blake SR18 element group b
|| Triax 10 element group C/D
|| 10'x2" mast
|| 12" cradle bracket
|| 
|| I've just had a word with my friend about the replacement of his
|| aerial down in Devon and he thought a higher mast would be a good
|| idea, due to the flats being built in the line of fire.  But I would
|| be dubious about using a 10' mast with a 12" bracket.  Changing to an
|| 18" bracket would be loads of hassle (and extra expense) and I don't
|| think it's worth it.  What d'ya reckon?  Current mast is 6'x2".
|| 

Freesat?

|| Marky P.

"Ivan" <ivan'H'older@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:6cvoh0F4ducU1@mid.individual.net...
> Marky P wrote:
> || Would this be an unstable set up:
> || || Blake SR18 element group b
> || Triax 10 element group C/D
> || 10'x2" mast
> || 12" cradle bracket
> || || I've just had a word with my friend about the replacement of his
> || aerial down in Devon and he thought a higher mast would be a good
> || idea, due to the flats being built in the line of fire.  But I would
> || be dubious about using a 10' mast with a 12" bracket.  Changing to an
> || 18" bracket would be loads of hassle (and extra expense) and I don't
> || think it's worth it.  What d'ya reckon?  Current mast is 6'x2".
> ||
> Freesat?
>
> || Marky P.

Freesat is an interesting thought as the expense of your components must be 
starting to get up to the cost of a Freesat setup.  Or even, perhaps, the 
Sky FTA offering i.e. getting someone else to put the dish up for him ;-). 
I did hear of cheap deals from Currys/Dixons.  If you make sure the dish is 
in a good place, and he gets one of the multi-head LNBs, then  next time 
you're down there you can wire up some extra cables for him and he gets 4 
output (2 for PVR plus two bedrooms perhaps?).

Paul DS

Marky P wrote:
> Would this be an unstable set up:
> 
> Blake SR18 element group b
> Triax 10 element group C/D
> 10'x2" mast
> 12" cradle bracket
> 
> I've just had a word with my friend about the replacement of his
> aerial down in Devon and he thought a higher mast would be a good
> idea, due to the flats being built in the line of fire.  But I would
> be dubious about using a 10' mast with a 12" bracket.  Changing to an
> 18" bracket would be loads of hassle (and extra expense) and I don't
> think it's worth it.  What d'ya reckon?  Current mast is 6'x2".
> 
> Marky P.
> 
http://www.vanjak.com/images/super2/CBG-09.htm

The above is the bracket I use every day with 10' x 2" Aluminium masts.

Glenn...

Glenn Millar wrote:
> Marky P wrote:
>> Would this be an unstable set up:
>>
>> Blake SR18 element group b
>> Triax 10 element group C/D
>> 10'x2" mast
>> 12" cradle bracket
>>
>> I've just had a word with my friend about the replacement of his
>> aerial down in Devon and he thought a higher mast would be a good
>> idea, due to the flats being built in the line of fire.  But I would
>> be dubious about using a 10' mast with a 12" bracket.  Changing to an
>> 18" bracket would be loads of hassle (and extra expense) and I don't
>> think it's worth it.  What d'ya reckon?  Current mast is 6'x2".
>>
>> Marky P.
>>
> http://www.vanjak.com/images/super2/CBG-09.htm
> 
> The above is the bracket I use every day with 10' x 2" Aluminium masts.
> 
> Glenn...

Should have added, it's a 14" bracket.

Heck of a lot of leverage  in a ten foot mast. Might sway a bit in a gale 
and gradually work bracket loose even if its soundly fixed.

Mind you, I'm on top of a hill!

Brian

-- 
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
 graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email: briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________


"Marky P"  wrote in message 
news:7hal649g50bd85c6u7g9sjkipmq42hlvme@4ax.com...
> Would this be an unstable set up:
>
> Blake SR18 element group b
> Triax 10 element group C/D
> 10'x2" mast
> 12" cradle bracket
>
> I've just had a word with my friend about the replacement of his
> aerial down in Devon and he thought a higher mast would be a good
> idea, due to the flats being built in the line of fire.  But I would
> be dubious about using a 10' mast with a 12" bracket.  Changing to an
> 18" bracket would be loads of hassle (and extra expense) and I don't
> think it's worth it.  What d'ya reckon?  Current mast is 6'x2".
>
> Marky P.
>

In article , Paul D.Smith
 scribeth thus
>"Ivan" <ivan'H'older@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message 
>news:6cvoh0F4ducU1@mid.individual.net...
>> Marky P wrote:
>> || Would this be an unstable set up:
>> || || Blake SR18 element group b
>> || Triax 10 element group C/D
>> || 10'x2" mast
>> || 12" cradle bracket
>> || || I've just had a word with my friend about the replacement of his
>> || aerial down in Devon and he thought a higher mast would be a good
>> || idea, due to the flats being built in the line of fire.  But I would
>> || be dubious about using a 10' mast with a 12" bracket.  Changing to an
>> || 18" bracket would be loads of hassle (and extra expense) and I don't
>> || think it's worth it.  What d'ya reckon?  Current mast is 6'x2".
>> ||
>> Freesat?
>>
>> || Marky P.
>
>Freesat is an interesting thought as the expense of your components must be 
>starting to get up to the cost of a Freesat setup.  Or even, perhaps, the 
>Sky FTA offering i.e. getting someone else to put the dish up for him ;-). 
>I did hear of cheap deals from Currys/Dixons.  If you make sure the dish is 
>in a good place, and he gets one of the multi-head LNBs, then  next time 
>you're down there you can wire up some extra cables for him and he gets 4 
>output (2 for PVR plus two bedrooms perhaps?).
>
>Paul DS 
>

Theres no fun in that;).

Waaay too sensible....
-- 
Tony Sayer

"Marky P"  wrote in message 
news:7hal649g50bd85c6u7g9sjkipmq42hlvme@4ax.com...
> Would this be an unstable set up:
>
> Blake SR18 element group b
> Triax 10 element group C/D
> 10'x2" mast
> 12" cradle bracket
>
> I've just had a word with my friend about the replacement of his
> aerial down in Devon and he thought a higher mast would be a good
> idea, due to the flats being built in the line of fire.  But I would
> be dubious about using a 10' mast with a 12" bracket.  Changing to an
> 18" bracket would be loads of hassle (and extra expense) and I don't
> think it's worth it.  What d'ya reckon?  Current mast is 6'x2".
>
> Marky P.
>

As far as I'm aware Mr P, there's no readily available 12" cradle bracket. 
It's either 8" or 13.5".

Assuming you've got the 13.5" then I wouldn't worry about it too much. Yes 
it would be better to have 2 straps around the chimney and a nice space 
inbetween, but if this can't be easily done then I wouldn't worry about it.

Just make sure the chimney is in good condition and the strap is nice and 
tight.

Here's a 13.5" cradle with a 10ft mast and a few aerials on it. This mast is 
actually 1.5" diameter.

http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/3936/markyge3.jpg

I've noticed lately that there are "new" cheaper 13.5" galvanised cradle 
brackets available. They are about 30% cheaper than the normal ones, but the 
metal is much slimmer and they feel terribly flimsy. I ordered a load by 
mistake without realising.

I also noticed the same has happened to non penetrating roof mounts. I 
sometimes use the 2" version (450m slabs), and used to pay about £100 for 
it. Then they changed the price down to about £45. Everything else looked 
the same so I ordered one for a job, but when it arrived it wasn't great. 
They have cut out lots of metal from all over, and it now weighs half of the 
old one and it can't support an aerial properly now as much of the metal has 
been removed from the centre part with the mast coming up.

I complained and was told the older version wasn't available and the new one 
was just as good! I now have to order the "older" version (much better 
version) directly from Blake UK.

"Marky P"  wrote in message 
news:7hal649g50bd85c6u7g9sjkipmq42hlvme@4ax.com...
> Would this be an unstable set up:
>
> Blake SR18 element group b
> Triax 10 element group C/D
> 10'x2" mast
> 12" cradle bracket
>
> I've just had a word with my friend about the replacement of his
> aerial down in Devon and he thought a higher mast would be a good
> idea, due to the flats being built in the line of fire.  But I would
> be dubious about using a 10' mast with a 12" bracket.  Changing to an
> 18" bracket would be loads of hassle (and extra expense) and I don't
> think it's worth it.  What d'ya reckon?  Current mast is 6'x2".

Are you sure the mast is 10ft x 2"? That's an unusual size. Could it be 12ft 
x 2"? Anyway, I'd think twice before putting a ten foot  mast with two 
aerials on a single lashing wire.

Bill

"Glenn Millar"  wrote in message 
news:-76dncJQK-DKr_bVnZ2dnUVZ8tninZ2d@posted.plusnet...
> http://www.vanjak.com/images/super2/CBG-09.htm
>
> The above is the bracket I use every day with 10' x 2" Aluminium masts.

Glenn, I admit that I'm over cautious.

Bill

"Carpy"  wrote in message 
news:fRIak.174658$aE7.94614@newsfe16.ams2...
> http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/3936/markyge3.jpg
>
I know I'm over cautious, and I'm sure that the job in your picture is just 
fine, but I personally would never put that installation on one lashing 
wire. I know, I know! It's me.

> I also noticed the same has happened to non penetrating roof mounts. I 
> sometimes use the 2" version (450m slabs), and used to pay about £100 for 
> it. Then they changed the price down to about £45. Everything else looked 
> the same so I ordered one for a job, but when it arrived it wasn't great. 
> They have cut out lots of metal from all over, and it now weighs half of 
> the old one and it can't support an aerial properly now as much of the 
> metal has been removed from the centre part with the mast coming up.
>
> I complained and was told the older version wasn't available and the new 
> one was just as good! I now have to order the "older" version (much better 
> version) directly from Blake UK.
I spent some time at the show talking to ISS of Leeds who make these items 
for Sat Sol. The product range is VG. Have a look.

Anyway, next year I'm going to twist the arms of a few people on here to 
come to the show.

Bill

Bill Wright wrote:
|| "Carpy"  wrote in message
|| news:fRIak.174658$aE7.94614@newsfe16.ams2...
||| http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/3936/markyge3.jpg
|||
|| I know I'm over cautious, and I'm sure that the job in your picture
|| is just fine, but I personally would never put that installation on
|| one lashing wire. I know, I know! It's me.
||
||| I also noticed the same has happened to non penetrating roof
||| mounts. I sometimes use the 2" version (450m slabs), and used to
||| pay about £100 for it. Then they changed the price down to about
||| £45. Everything else looked the same so I ordered one for a job,
||| but when it arrived it wasn't great. They have cut out lots of
||| metal from all over, and it now weighs half of the old one and it
||| can't support an aerial properly now as much of the metal has been
||| removed from the centre part with the mast coming up.
|||
||| I complained and was told the older version wasn't available and
||| the new one was just as good! I now have to order the "older"
||| version (much better version) directly from Blake UK.
|| I spent some time at the show talking to ISS of Leeds who make these
|| items for Sat Sol. The product range is VG. Have a look.
||
|| Anyway, next year I'm going to twist the arms of a few people on
|| here to come to the show.
||

Provided that the lashing wire is of good quality then they're probably 
won't be any reason for it to let go, I still see heavy duty galvanised 
chimney brackets dating back around 50 years which were fitted by 
Rediffusion to carry some pretty weighty catenaries across busy main roads, 
the lashing wire on those consisted of stranded phosphorus bronze.

|| Bill

Sorry I omitted to trim Bills post, so it wasn't obvious exactly what part 
of it I was replying to.. error corrected.
Ivan

||
|| Bill Wright wrote:
|||| "Carpy"  wrote in message
|||| news:fRIak.174658$aE7.94614@newsfe16.ams2...
||||| http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/3936/markyge3.jpg
|||||
|||| I know I'm over cautious, and I'm sure that the job in your picture
|||| is just fine, but I personally would never put that installation on
|||| one lashing wire. I know, I know! It's me.
||||


|| Provided that the lashing wire is of good quality then there
|| probably won't be any reason for it to let go, I still see heavy
|| duty galvanised chimney brackets dating back around 50 years which
|| were fitted by Rediffusion to carry some pretty weighty catenaries
|| across busy main roads, the lashing wire on those consisted of
|| stranded phosphorus bronze.
||

"Ivan" <ivan'H'older@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:6d1i0dF9psfU1@mid.individual.net...
> Provided that the lashing wire is of good quality then they're probably 
> won't be any reason for it to let go, I still see heavy duty galvanised 
> chimney brackets dating back around 50 years which were fitted by 
> Rediffusion to carry some pretty weighty catenaries across busy main 
> roads, the lashing wire on those consisted of stranded phosphorus bronze.

Yes, I've had to cut a few of them down. . .

Modern lash wire is, of course, a poor thing by comparision. My worries, 
though, are usually about the stresses on the masonry than the strength of 
the wire. I must say, again, that I know I'm overcautious about this.

Bill

Bill Wright wrote:
|| "Ivan" <ivan'H'older@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
|| news:6d1i0dF9psfU1@mid.individual.net...
||| Provided that the lashing wire is of good quality then they're
||| probably won't be any reason for it to let go, I still see heavy
||| duty galvanised chimney brackets dating back around 50 years which
||| were fitted by Rediffusion to carry some pretty weighty catenaries
||| across busy main roads, the lashing wire on those consisted of
||| stranded phosphorus bronze.
||
|| Yes, I've had to cut a few of them down. . .
||
|| Modern lash wire is, of course, a poor thing by comparision. My
|| worries, though, are usually about the stresses on the masonry than
|| the strength of the wire. I must say, again, that I know I'm
|| overcautious about this.
||
|| Bill

You're right to be so Bill, there were many old neglected and bomb damaged 
Victorian buildings in the postwar inner cities and those aforementioned 
'weighty catenaries' usually required the efforts of a couple of blokes on 
each end pulling them as taught as they could and then making off the 
stainless steel support wire onto the J bolts.
In one instance I can recall despite the J bolts being tightened at both 
ends no noticeable increase in tautness could be seen, the reason for this 
soon became apparent when it was noticed that one of the stacks was starting 
to lean forward at a precarious angle, needless to say that the J bolts were 
quickly slackened and the stack eased back into its original position!

|

On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 11:04:44 +0100, tony sayer 
wrote:

>In article , Paul D.Smith
> scribeth thus
>>"Ivan" <ivan'H'older@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message 
>>news:6cvoh0F4ducU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> Marky P wrote:
>>> || Would this be an unstable set up:
>>> || || Blake SR18 element group b
>>> || Triax 10 element group C/D
>>> || 10'x2" mast
>>> || 12" cradle bracket
>>> || || I've just had a word with my friend about the replacement of his
>>> || aerial down in Devon and he thought a higher mast would be a good
>>> || idea, due to the flats being built in the line of fire.  But I would
>>> || be dubious about using a 10' mast with a 12" bracket.  Changing to an
>>> || 18" bracket would be loads of hassle (and extra expense) and I don't
>>> || think it's worth it.  What d'ya reckon?  Current mast is 6'x2".
>>> ||
>>> Freesat?
>>>
>>> || Marky P.
>>
>>Freesat is an interesting thought as the expense of your components must be 
>>starting to get up to the cost of a Freesat setup.  Or even, perhaps, the 
>>Sky FTA offering i.e. getting someone else to put the dish up for him ;-). 
>>I did hear of cheap deals from Currys/Dixons.  If you make sure the dish is 
>>in a good place, and he gets one of the multi-head LNBs, then  next time 
>>you're down there you can wire up some extra cables for him and he gets 4 
>>output (2 for PVR plus two bedrooms perhaps?).
>>
>>Paul DS 
>>
>
>Theres no fun in that;).
>
>Waaay too sensible....

Freesat is an option for the main telly, but still need Freeview for
the other 3 tellies.

Marky P.

>As far as I'm aware Mr P, there's no readily available 12" cradle bracket. 
>It's either 8" or 13.5".
>

Actually you're right.  It is a 13.5" bracket.  Got it from CPC.  At
the time, I didn't know if the chimney was tall enough for an 18"
bracket, so I went for the next size down.

Marky P.

"Bill Wright"  wrote in message 
news:PMmdnceXda4SW_bVnZ2dnUVZ8vydnZ2d@pipex.net...
>
> "Ivan" <ivan'H'older@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message 
> news:6d1i0dF9psfU1@mid.individual.net...
>> Provided that the lashing wire is of good quality then they're probably 
>> won't be any reason for it to let go, I still see heavy duty galvanised 
>> chimney brackets dating back around 50 years which were fitted by 
>> Rediffusion to carry some pretty weighty catenaries across busy main 
>> roads, the lashing wire on those consisted of stranded phosphorus bronze.
>
> Yes, I've had to cut a few of them down. . .
>
> Modern lash wire is, of course, a poor thing by comparision. My worries, 
> though, are usually about the stresses on the masonry than the strength of 
> the wire. I must say, again, that I know I'm overcautious about this.
>
> Bill
>

The way I see it is that if the same bracket / lashing was only supporting a 
small 10 element aerial on the same 10ft mast, then I wouldn't do the 
lashing kit any looser, so really the compressional stress (which I believe 
is the more relevant one) on the chimney is the same for either rig.

If you look at the bracket as a kind of dual cantilever beam with virtually 
no deflection, then having 3 smallish aerials instead of 1 adds so little to 
the imposed load that it won't have any worthwhile bearing on the moment 
applied to the bracket (beam).

The wind loading will be increased a fair bit, but it could never really 
impose enough force on the chimney to matter. The mast will always be the 
weakest link and must resist constantly going from tension to compression, 
so a nice lightweight aerial such as a log is a good choice if possible. 
Obviously the higher up the pole the aerial goes the more magnified the 
force becomes as force = load x distance..

The Sky dish adds a small load but in that position relative to the bracket 
it's irrelevant.

So really for me, with a bracket like this, the only relevant things are the 
horizontal compression stresses on the chimney, and a mast that is plenty 
strong enough yet will flex sufficiently to prevent transferring too much to 
the chimney, and not be so thick that it becomes overly heavy and places a 
much larger load on the bracket.

We always used to design structures with a safety factor of 3. That is, work 
out the maximum theoretical load that could ever possibly be imposed and 
design the building / structure to take three times that load. I'm confident 
that a bracket / chimney like the one above has a much much larger safety 
factor.

All this could of course be complete bollocks, as it's been quite a few 
years since I've done anything remotely useful in the Civil / Structural 
engineering scene, but I still maintain a good "eye" for what's acceptable 
and what's not, although these days it's more down to judgement than 
calculation.

"Ivan" <ivan'H'older@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:6d2d4qFgqriU1@mid.individual.net...
> You're right to be so Bill, there were many old neglected and bomb damaged 
> Victorian buildings in the postwar inner cities and those aforementioned 
> 'weighty catenaries' usually required the efforts of a couple of blokes on 
> each end pulling them as taught as they could and then making off the 
> stainless steel support wire onto the J bolts.
> In one instance I can recall despite the J bolts being tightened at both 
> ends no noticeable increase in tautness could be seen, the reason for this 
> soon became apparent when it was noticed that one of the stacks was 
> starting to lean forward at a precarious angle, needless to say that the J 
> bolts were quickly slackened and the stack eased back into its original 
> position!

In the old days I used to get regular frights when I was doing contract 
aerial rigging. Sometimes the wire would suddenly go slack and a second 
later there'd be a muffled thud. A corner brick had been pushed inwards and 
had fallen down the chimney. Often this would be followed by angry people 
coming running out of the house, looking like nigger minstrels and shaking 
their fists. I always used to say that since they hadn't had their chimney 
swept or maintained the stack they were 99% to blame, and I usually got away 
with it. This was a fortunate because the damage caused by a hundredweight 
of soot landing in the living room was considerable.

We forget these days about soot. I used to come home covered in the stuff, 
and I could never get it out of my pores.

Bill

In article ,
   Bill Wright  wrote:

> "Ivan" <ivan'H'older@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message 
> news:6d2d4qFgqriU1@mid.individual.net...
> > You're right to be so Bill, there were many old neglected and bomb damaged 
> > Victorian buildings in the postwar inner cities and those aforementioned 

> with it. This was a fortunate because the damage caused by a hundredweight 
> of soot landing in the living room was considerable.

> We forget these days about soot. I used to come home covered in the stuff, 
> and I could never get it out of my pores.

Good detoxing agent?  ..or early toner refill 
as it's mostly carbon.  With white lips and a 
banjo fashioned from aerial wires, you must 
have been made around the clubs.. ;'))

Bill ZFC

-- 
Adoption  InterLink  UK with  -=-         http://www.billsimpson.com/
Domain Host Orpheus Internet  -=-  http://www.orpheusinternet.co.uk/

...snip...

>>>Freesat is an interesting thought as the expense of your components must 
>>>be
>>>starting to get up to the cost of a Freesat setup.  Or even, perhaps, the
>>>Sky FTA offering i.e. getting someone else to put the dish up for him 
>>>;-).
>>>I did hear of cheap deals from Currys/Dixons.  If you make sure the dish 
>>>is
>>>in a good place, and he gets one of the multi-head LNBs, then  next time
>>>you're down there you can wire up some extra cables for him and he gets 4
>>>output (2 for PVR plus two bedrooms perhaps?).
>>>
>>>Paul DS
>>>
>>
>>Theres no fun in that;).
>>
>>Waaay too sensible....
>
> Freesat is an option for the main telly, but still need Freeview for
> the other 3 tellies.
>
> Marky P.
>

I suppose the cost does go up for each Freesat box purchased, which I hadn't 
allowed for.  Question is will your friend wait until SD Freesat boxes are 
10-a-penny or does he want all his TVs NOW!  But then I add up "PVR + 3 
others = 5" - bother, one more than a quad LNB can handle.

How often does your friend have multiple TVs on watching multiple things? 
What about somehow driving the other TVs from the Freesat box?  Or perhaps 
he needs a full blown "hotel" like distribution system.

All getting too complicated now ;-)   Good luck with the aerial.

Paul DS.

In article , Marky P
 scribeth thus
>On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 11:04:44 +0100, tony sayer 
>wrote:
>
>>In article , Paul D.Smith
>> scribeth thus
>>>"Ivan" <ivan'H'older@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message 
>>>news:6cvoh0F4ducU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>> Marky P wrote:
>>>> || Would this be an unstable set up:
>>>> || || Blake SR18 element group b
>>>> || Triax 10 element group C/D
>>>> || 10'x2" mast
>>>> || 12" cradle bracket
>>>> || || I've just had a word with my friend about the replacement of his
>>>> || aerial down in Devon and he thought a higher mast would be a good
>>>> || idea, due to the flats being built in the line of fire.  But I would
>>>> || be dubious about using a 10' mast with a 12" bracket.  Changing to an
>>>> || 18" bracket would be loads of hassle (and extra expense) and I don't
>>>> || think it's worth it.  What d'ya reckon?  Current mast is 6'x2".
>>>> ||
>>>> Freesat?
>>>>
>>>> || Marky P.
>>>
>>>Freesat is an interesting thought as the expense of your components must be 
>>>starting to get up to the cost of a Freesat setup.  Or even, perhaps, the 
>>>Sky FTA offering i.e. getting someone else to put the dish up for him ;-). 
>>>I did hear of cheap deals from Currys/Dixons.  If you make sure the dish is 
>>>in a good place, and he gets one of the multi-head LNBs, then  next time 
>>>you're down there you can wire up some extra cables for him and he gets 4 
>>>output (2 for PVR plus two bedrooms perhaps?).
>>>
>>>Paul DS 
>>>
>>
>>Theres no fun in that;).
>>
>>Waaay too sensible....
>
>Freesat is an option for the main telly, but still need Freeview for
>the other 3 tellies.
>
>Marky P.
>
Why not use a multi output LNB and simply convert the whole to
satellite?..
-- 
Tony Sayer

In article , Bill Wright
 scribeth thus
>
>"Ivan" <ivan'H'older@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message 
>news:6d2d4qFgqriU1@mid.individual.net...
>> You're right to be so Bill, there were many old neglected and bomb damaged 
>> Victorian buildings in the postwar inner cities and those aforementioned 
>> 'weighty catenaries' usually required the efforts of a couple of blokes on 
>> each end pulling them as taught as they could and then making off the 
>> stainless steel support wire onto the J bolts.
>> In one instance I can recall despite the J bolts being tightened at both 
>> ends no noticeable increase in tautness could be seen, the reason for this 
>> soon became apparent when it was noticed that one of the stacks was 
>> starting to lean forward at a precarious angle, needless to say that the J 
>> bolts were quickly slackened and the stack eased back into its original 
>> position!
>
>In the old days I used to get regular frights when I was doing contract 
>aerial rigging. Sometimes the wire would suddenly go slack and a second 
>later there'd be a muffled thud. A corner brick had been pushed inwards and 
>had fallen down the chimney. Often this would be followed by angry people 
>coming running out of the house, looking like nigger minstrels 

Oi!, thats very politically incorrect!!!!

>and shaking 
>their fists. I always used to say that since they hadn't had their chimney 
>swept or maintained the stack they were 99% to blame, and I usually got away 
>with it. This was a fortunate because the damage caused by a hundredweight 
>of soot landing in the living room was considerable.


Yep I was up on an old antique house many years ago and just leaned on a
stack and the whole bloody thing collapsed only to be moaned but big
time by the householder and the c**t I worked for at the time, stingy
old barstard. No bugger said are you OK despite falling some 15 feet!...


And no one said thank f**k that came down now and not in a storm when
there might have been someone underneath it.
>
>We forget these days about soot. I used to come home covered in the stuff, 
>and I could never get it out of my pores.
>
>Bill 
>
>

-- 
Tony Sayer

tony sayer wrote:

>> Freesat is an option for the main telly, but still need Freeview for
>> the other 3 tellies.

> Why not use a multi output LNB and simply convert the whole to
> satellite?..

If "main telly" includes a PVR he'll need a 5-output LNB.  I've heard 
talk of 6- or 8-o/p LNBs, but do they actually exist?  4 is the usual 
limit, with a multiswitch being needed after that - or a real move to 
the single-cable ('SCR') technology.

-- 
Andy

Andy Wade wrote:
|| tony sayer wrote:
|| 
|||| Freesat is an option for the main telly, but still need Freeview
|||| for the other 3 tellies.
|| 
||| Why not use a multi output LNB and simply convert the whole to
||| satellite?..
|| 
|| If "main telly" includes a PVR he'll need a 5-output LNB.  I've heard
|| talk of 6- or 8-o/p LNBs, but do they actually exist?  4 is the usual
|| limit, with a multiswitch being needed after that - or a real move to
|| the single-cable ('SCR') technology.
|| 

Technomate TM8

|| --
|| Andy

Ivan wrote:
|| Andy Wade wrote:
|||| tony sayer wrote:
||||
|||||| Freesat is an option for the main telly, but still need Freeview
|||||| for the other 3 tellies.
||||
||||| Why not use a multi output LNB and simply convert the whole to
||||| satellite?..
||||
|||| If "main telly" includes a PVR he'll need a 5-output LNB.  I've
|||| heard talk of 6- or 8-o/p LNBs, but do they actually exist?  4 is
|||| the usual limit, with a multiswitch being needed after that - or a
|||| real move to the single-cable ('SCR') technology.
||||
||
|| Technomate TM8
||

Or the Wistron Sky Octo LNB
< 
http://www.brittany-satellites.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=211>

|||| --
|||| Andy

"tony sayer"  wrote in message 
news:fGNUf8EjvJbIFwxV@bancom.co.uk...
> In article , Marky P
>  scribeth thus
>>On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 11:04:44 +0100, tony sayer 
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In article , Paul D.Smith
>>> scribeth thus
>>>>"Ivan" <ivan'H'older@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>news:6cvoh0F4ducU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>> Marky P wrote:
<snip>
>>Freesat is an option for the main telly, but still need Freeview for
>>the other 3 tellies.
>>Marky P.
>>
> Why not use a multi output LNB and simply convert the whole to
> satellite?..
> Tony Sayer
>
>
That's what i would do, (have done before) Stick a 4 output LNB
on the dish and feed it to 4 used SKY STBs.

Much more future proofed too
28 east is going to carry far more FTA than DVB-T ever will

Steve Terry

"Andy Wade"  wrote in message 
news:6d3qodFn6c3U1@mid.individual.net...
> tony sayer wrote:
>
>>> Freesat is an option for the main telly, but still need Freeview for
>>> the other 3 tellies.
>
>> Why not use a multi output LNB and simply convert the whole to
>> satellite?..
>
> If "main telly" includes a PVR he'll need a 5-output LNB.  I've heard talk 
> of 6- or 8-o/p LNBs, but do they actually exist?  4 is the usual limit, 
> with a multiswitch being needed after that - or a real move to the 
> single-cable ('SCR') technology.
> Andy
>
>
Dishes and quad LNBs are cheap enough without looking for more,
or feeding an expensive distribution system.

Just stick a second dish up with another quad LNB.
another 30quid, tops.

Steve Terry

"Ivan" <ivan'H'older@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:6d3s8dFmgjfU1@mid.individual.net...
> Ivan wrote:
> || Andy Wade wrote:
> |||| tony sayer wrote:
> ||||
> |||||| Freesat is an option for the main telly, but still need Freeview
> |||||| for the other 3 tellies.
> ||||
> ||||| Why not use a multi output LNB and simply convert the whole to
> ||||| satellite?..
> ||||
> |||| If "main telly" includes a PVR he'll need a 5-output LNB.  I've
> |||| heard talk of 6- or 8-o/p LNBs, but do they actually exist?  4 is
> |||| the usual limit, with a multiswitch being needed after that - or a
> |||| real move to the single-cable ('SCR') technology.
> ||||
> ||
> || Technomate TM8
> ||
>
> Or the Wistron Sky Octo LNB
> < 
> http://www.brittany-satellites.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=211>
>
>
75quid!
Another dish and quad LNB = 30quid
But it is a solution if you aren't allowed to install another dish.

Steve Terry

Steve Terry wrote:
|| "Ivan" <ivan'H'older@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
|| news:6d3s8dFmgjfU1@mid.individual.net...
||| Ivan wrote:
||||| Andy Wade wrote:
||||||| tony sayer wrote:
|||||||
||||||||| Freesat is an option for the main telly, but still need
||||||||| Freeview for the other 3 tellies.
|||||||
|||||||| Why not use a multi output LNB and simply convert the whole to
|||||||| satellite?..
|||||||
||||||| If "main telly" includes a PVR he'll need a 5-output LNB.  I've
||||||| heard talk of 6- or 8-o/p LNBs, but do they actually exist?  4
||||||| is the usual limit, with a multiswitch being needed after that
||||||| - or a real move to the single-cable ('SCR') technology.
|||||||
|||||
||||| Technomate TM8
|||||
|||
||| Or the Wistron Sky Octo LNB
||| <
||| 
http://www.brittany-satellites.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=211>
|||
|||
|| 75quid!
|| Another dish and quad LNB = 30quid
|| But it is a solution if you aren't allowed to install another dish.
||

IMO it wouldn't be right for others on this newsgroup [who after all have to 
try and make a living] for me to quote a trade price, however IIRC from 
previous posts long past I believe that Marky P. had some kind of access to 
a trade outlet?.. if so then I think he won't be too unhappy with the price.


|| Steve Terry

In article <g4inpb$rh5$1@news.albasani.net>, Steve Terry
 scribeth thus
>
>"Ivan" <ivan'H'older@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message 
>news:6d3s8dFmgjfU1@mid.individual.net...
>> Ivan wrote:
>> || Andy Wade wrote:
>> |||| tony sayer wrote:
>> ||||
>> |||||| Freesat is an option for the main telly, but still need Freeview
>> |||||| for the other 3 tellies.
>> ||||
>> ||||| Why not use a multi output LNB and simply convert the whole to
>> ||||| satellite?..
>> ||||
>> |||| If "main telly" includes a PVR he'll need a 5-output LNB.  I've
>> |||| heard talk of 6- or 8-o/p LNBs, but do they actually exist?  4 is
>> |||| the usual limit, with a multiswitch being needed after that - or a
>> |||| real move to the single-cable ('SCR') technology.
>> ||||
>> ||
>> || Technomate TM8
>> ||
>>
>> Or the Wistron Sky Octo LNB
>> < 
>> http://www.brittany-satellites.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=211>
>>
>>
>75quid!
>Another dish and quad LNB = 30quid
>But it is a solution if you aren't allowed to install another dish.
>
>Steve Terry
>
>
>
>
>
I do believe they are available for less then that...
-- 
Tony Sayer

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 09:15:15 +0100, "Paul D.Smith"
 wrote:

>...snip...
>
>>>>Freesat is an interesting thought as the expense of your components must 
>>>>be
>>>>starting to get up to the cost of a Freesat setup.  Or even, perhaps, the
>>>>Sky FTA offering i.e. getting someone else to put the dish up for him 
>>>>;-).
>>>>I did hear of cheap deals from Currys/Dixons.  If you make sure the dish 
>>>>is
>>>>in a good place, and he gets one of the multi-head LNBs, then  next time
>>>>you're down there you can wire up some extra cables for him and he gets 4
>>>>output (2 for PVR plus two bedrooms perhaps?).
>>>>
>>>>Paul DS
>>>>
>>>
>>>Theres no fun in that;).
>>>
>>>Waaay too sensible....
>>
>> Freesat is an option for the main telly, but still need Freeview for
>> the other 3 tellies.
>>
>> Marky P.
>>
>
>I suppose the cost does go up for each Freesat box purchased, which I hadn't 
>allowed for.  Question is will your friend wait until SD Freesat boxes are 
>10-a-penny or does he want all his TVs NOW!  But then I add up "PVR + 3 
>others = 5" - bother, one more than a quad LNB can handle.
>
>How often does your friend have multiple TVs on watching multiple things? 
>What about somehow driving the other TVs from the Freesat box?  Or perhaps 
>he needs a full blown "hotel" like distribution system.
>
>All getting too complicated now ;-)   Good luck with the aerial.
>
>Paul DS. 

In the past year, my friend (and his wife) have only been to their
holiday home three times.  They do rent it out, but only to friends
and that's not often.  So the tellys aren't used a great deal.  Got a
call last night from him saying that all Freeview channels are
breaking up now & he wants me to go down there next weekend and
install the new Blake aerial.  I told him it might make no difference,
but I'm happy to do it.

Marky P.

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 10:29:07 +0100, tony sayer 
wrote:

>In article , Marky P
> scribeth thus
>>On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 11:04:44 +0100, tony sayer 
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In article , Paul D.Smith
>>> scribeth thus
>>>>"Ivan" <ivan'H'older@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message 
>>>>news:6cvoh0F4ducU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>> Marky P wrote:
>>>>> || Would this be an unstable set up:
>>>>> || || Blake SR18 element group b
>>>>> || Triax 10 element group C/D
>>>>> || 10'x2" mast
>>>>> || 12" cradle bracket
>>>>> || || I've just had a word with my friend about the replacement of his
>>>>> || aerial down in Devon and he thought a higher mast would be a good
>>>>> || idea, due to the flats being built in the line of fire.  But I would
>>>>> || be dubious about using a 10' mast with a 12" bracket.  Changing to an
>>>>> || 18" bracket would be loads of hassle (and extra expense) and I don't
>>>>> || think it's worth it.  What d'ya reckon?  Current mast is 6'x2".
>>>>> ||
>>>>> Freesat?
>>>>>
>>>>> || Marky P.
>>>>
>>>>Freesat is an interesting thought as the expense of your components must be 
>>>>starting to get up to the cost of a Freesat setup.  Or even, perhaps, the 
>>>>Sky FTA offering i.e. getting someone else to put the dish up for him ;-). 
>>>>I did hear of cheap deals from Currys/Dixons.  If you make sure the dish is 
>>>>in a good place, and he gets one of the multi-head LNBs, then  next time 
>>>>you're down there you can wire up some extra cables for him and he gets 4 
>>>>output (2 for PVR plus two bedrooms perhaps?).
>>>>
>>>>Paul DS 
>>>>
>>>
>>>Theres no fun in that;).
>>>
>>>Waaay too sensible....
>>
>>Freesat is an option for the main telly, but still need Freeview for
>>the other 3 tellies.
>>
>>Marky P.
>>
>Why not use a multi output LNB and simply convert the whole to
>satellite?..

I'll suggest it, but it's all extra boxes.  I had to install all the
bedroom tellies on wall bracket and put all wiring through the walls
so nothing would show.  It was a right bugger.

Marky P.

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 17:48:28 +0100, "Ivan" <ivan'H'older@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

>Steve Terry wrote:
>|| "Ivan" <ivan'H'older@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>|| news:6d3s8dFmgjfU1@mid.individual.net...
>||| Ivan wrote:
>||||| Andy Wade wrote:
>||||||| tony sayer wrote:
>|||||||
>||||||||| Freesat is an option for the main telly, but still need
>||||||||| Freeview for the other 3 tellies.
>|||||||
>|||||||| Why not use a multi output LNB and simply convert the whole to
>|||||||| satellite?..
>|||||||
>||||||| If "main telly" includes a PVR he'll need a 5-output LNB.  I've
>||||||| heard talk of 6- or 8-o/p LNBs, but do they actually exist?  4
>||||||| is the usual limit, with a multiswitch being needed after that
>||||||| - or a real move to the single-cable ('SCR') technology.
>|||||||
>|||||
>||||| Technomate TM8
>|||||
>|||
>||| Or the Wistron Sky Octo LNB
>||| <
>||| 
>http://www.brittany-satellites.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=211>
>|||
>|||
>|| 75quid!
>|| Another dish and quad LNB = 30quid
>|| But it is a solution if you aren't allowed to install another dish.
>||
>
>IMO it wouldn't be right for others on this newsgroup [who after all have to 
>try and make a living] for me to quote a trade price, however IIRC from 
>previous posts long past I believe that Marky P. had some kind of access to 
>a trade outlet?.. if so then I think he won't be too unhappy with the price.
>
>
>|| Steve Terry 

I have no access to a trade outlet :-(.  Just a humble amateur, me.

Marky P.

"Marky P"  wrote in message 
news:rdmq649gj8l2b8l2kul44fdnhrac4mb4l8@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 17:48:28 +0100, "Ivan" <ivan'H'older@yahoo.co.uk>
> I have no access to a trade outlet :-(.  Just a humble amateur, me.

Marky, most full time installers are amateurs, humble or otherwise. If you 
walk into any trade outlet and offer to pay cash you will have no problem.

Bill

Marky P wrote:

> I have no access to a trade outlet :-(.  Just a humble amateur, me.
> 

Try Solutions Group in Northampton, just off the Bedford Road in Brackmills.

Bill Wright  wrote:

> Marky, most full time installers are amateurs, humble or otherwise. If you
> walk into any trade outlet and offer to pay cash you will have no problem.

I once walked into Blakes and offered cash for one of their famous log
periodics but they wanted twice the price that CPC do them for. It's the
same with the plumbing trade counter down the road, compared with
Screwfix prices for the same thing. They can all smell real tradesmen a
mile off.

-- 
Alan Pemberton
Sheffield, South Yorkshire, England
To e-mail me directly, please visit
<http://www.pembers.freeserve.co.uk/index.html#Mail-me>

Alan Pemberton wrote:
|| Bill Wright  wrote:
||
||| Marky, most full time installers are amateurs, humble or otherwise.
||| If you walk into any trade outlet and offer to pay cash you will
||| have no problem.
||
|| I once walked into Blakes and offered cash for one of their famous
|| log periodics but they wanted twice the price that CPC do them for.
|| It's the same with the plumbing trade counter down the road,
|| compared with Screwfix prices for the same thing. They can all smell
|| real tradesmen a mile off.
||

Although Alan even genuine tradesmen dealing with trade outlets can 
sometimes find the same item being sold in supermarkets cheaper than they 
can buy it at trade price..  long gone are the days of retail price 
maintenance when one was 'guaranteed' of profit margin of 33.3%.

|| --
|| Alan Pemberton
|| Sheffield, South Yorkshire, England
|| To e-mail me directly, please visit
|| <http://www.pembers.freeserve.co.uk/index.html#Mail-me>

On 06/07/2008 16:19, Alan Pemberton wrote:

> I once walked into Blakes and offered cash 

I had no problems with Blakes a couple of years back; I turned up and 
they sold me LP/FM/DAB aerials, bracket, mast, amp and various outlet 
plates, all at very favourable prices compared to the catalogue/website.

"Ivan" <ivan'H'older@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:6dc7lvF1qslkU1@mid.individual.net...
> Alan Pemberton wrote:
> || Bill Wright  wrote:
> ||
> ||| Marky, most full time installers are amateurs, humble or otherwise.
> ||| If you walk into any trade outlet and offer to pay cash you will
> ||| have no problem.
> ||
> || I once walked into Blakes and offered cash for one of their famous
> || log periodics but they wanted twice the price that CPC do them for.
> || It's the same with the plumbing trade counter down the road,
> || compared with Screwfix prices for the same thing. They can all smell
> || real tradesmen a mile off.
> ||
>
> Although Alan even genuine tradesmen dealing with trade outlets can 
> sometimes find the same item being sold in supermarkets cheaper than they 
> can buy it at trade price..  long gone are the days of retail price 
> maintenance when one was 'guaranteed' of profit margin of 33.3%.

Many years ago the situation arose that the small distribution amplifiers we 
were fond of using became available at Wickes, at prices not dissimiliar to 
the trade price. Now the problem is, if you install a dist. amp you are 
automatically giving 12 month's on-site warranty (a free call out and 
replacement) so my policy was to mark amps up by a huge margin. I actually 
had customers ringing me complaining that the amp I had sold them was 
available at much lower cost at Wickes. Now the fact is, Joe Public has 
never understood about costs and overheads, and with some of them it's a 
waste of breath telling them. They like to think that if they pay £150 for 
an aerial installation the aerial cost £140 and the installation cost a 
tenner (instead of the other way round in the case of some installers).

Ok, well Labgear (for it was they) are entitled to trade just how they like. 
They'd figured that they could make more money by selling via Wickes than by 
not doing so, and good luck to them. It's the same with filling stations 
that hold up the diesel queue by selling lottery tickets at the same till. 
It's their decision, but there are lots of other filling stations so if I'm 
delayed by lottery customers I never, ever, return. Fair enough I think. So 
I spoke to Labgear and suggested that they make some simple cosmetic changes 
and took the Labgear name off the amps that they sold to Wickes. But no. So 
that's when I stopped using Labgear amps. Haven't used one for 25 years now. 
Must have cost them a fair bit, because I know I wasn't the only one.

Incidentally, when Antiference used to sell via Tandy they rebadged the 
product and altered it slightly, which was fine.

Bill

"Andy Burns"  wrote in message 
news:VeednU6jf8MfcO3VnZ2dnUVZ8trinZ2d@posted.plusnet...
> On 06/07/2008 16:19, Alan Pemberton wrote:
>
>> I once walked into Blakes and offered cash
>
> I had no problems with Blakes a couple of years back; I turned up and they 
> sold me LP/FM/DAB aerials, bracket, mast, amp and various outlet plates, 
> all at very favourable prices compared to the catalogue/website.

I've used wholesalers when I've been short of gear in places away from base, 
and I've never had the slightest problem. On one occasion someone asked, 
"Are you in the trade?" and I said, "Well as it happens yes but I'm paying 
by card anyway" and that was that.

Bill

"Bill Wright"  wrote in message 
news:Btydnb94Xp1duezVRVnyigA@pipex.net...
>
> "Ivan" <ivan'H'older@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message 
> news:6dc7lvF1qslkU1@mid.individual.net...
>> Alan Pemberton wrote:
>> || Bill Wright  wrote:
>> ||
>> ||| Marky, most full time installers are amateurs, humble or otherwise.
>> ||| If you walk into any trade outlet and offer to pay cash you will
>> ||| have no problem.
>> ||
>> || I once walked into Blakes and offered cash for one of their famous
>> || log periodics but they wanted twice the price that CPC do them for.
>> || It's the same with the plumbing trade counter down the road,
>> || compared with Screwfix prices for the same thing. They can all smell
>> || real tradesmen a mile off.
>> ||
>>
>> Although Alan even genuine tradesmen dealing with trade outlets can 
>> sometimes find the same item being sold in supermarkets cheaper than they 
>> can buy it at trade price..  long gone are the days of retail price 
>> maintenance when one was 'guaranteed' of profit margin of 33.3%.
>
> Many years ago the situation arose that the small distribution amplifiers 
> we were fond of using became available at Wickes, at prices not 
> dissimiliar to the trade price. Now the problem is, if you install a dist. 
> amp you are automatically giving 12 month's on-site warranty (a free call 
> out and replacement) so my policy was to mark amps up by a huge margin. I 
> actually had customers ringing me complaining that the amp I had sold them 
> was available at much lower cost at Wickes. Now the fact is, Joe Public 
> has never understood about costs and overheads, and with some of them it's 
> a waste of breath telling them. They like to think that if they pay £150 
> for an aerial installation the aerial cost £140 and the installation cost 
> a tenner (instead of the other way round in the case of some installers).
>
> Ok, well Labgear (for it was they) are entitled to trade just how they 
> like. They'd figured that they could make more money by selling via Wickes 
> than by not doing so, and good luck to them. It's the same with filling 
> stations that hold up the diesel queue by selling lottery tickets at the 
> same till. It's their decision, but there are lots of other filling 
> stations so if I'm delayed by lottery customers I never, ever, return. 
> Fair enough I think. So I spoke to Labgear and suggested that they make 
> some simple cosmetic changes and took the Labgear name off the amps that 
> they sold to Wickes. But no. So that's when I stopped using Labgear amps. 
> Haven't used one for 25 years now. Must have cost them a fair bit, because 
> I know I wasn't the only one.
>
> Incidentally, when Antiference used to sell via Tandy they rebadged the 
> product and altered it slightly, which was fine.
>
> Bill
>

I've got a box here with about 8 Labgear amplifiers in (all DA models), all 
have died on the job and I've had to go and replace them (with Antiference 
ones now).

They are all less than 2 years old. I've asked Labgear politely to help me 
out and repair / replace them (or at least do something) & also assure me 
these were from an isolated batch but they won't even respond.

I've tried on 3 seperate occasions, but they just refuse to respond so I've 
completely stopped using their products now, and would advise anybody else 
to do so.

I've got a huge stockpile of the MSA111 amps and these seem to be much more 
reliable.

"Carpy"  wrote in message 
news:t7mck.74616$Kb.31587@newsfe29.ams2...
> I've got a huge stockpile of the MSA111 amps and these seem to be much 
> more reliable.

For some reason these don't mind working into a single channel pass filter 
(some amps do) so we use them as 'launch' amps (to lift the output from Sky 
boxes etc to about 20dBmV before filter/combiners.

Bill